Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks To VFW

Yesterday, in her speech in front of the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention, Hillary Clinton said the following:

We've begun to change tactics in Iraq, and in some areas, particularly in Al Anbar province, it's working.

We're just years too late changing our tactics. We can't ever let that happen again. We can't be fighting the last war. We have to be preparing to fight the new war.

Was this an endorsement of the "surge?" Her campaign says no. From Talking Points Memo:

...the word "surge" didn't appear once in Hillary's speech, and her aides have been on record all day today saying that the tactic she referred to as "working" was not the surge but to reports of increased cooperation between Sunnis and U.S. troops.

Except that she didn't make that distinction in the speech. At the very least, it was an acknowledgment of nominal support for one aspect of the president's escalation policy and while she doesn't shirk from calling for withdrawal from Iraq elsewhere in the speech, the fact that she projects this apparently supportive view to a pro-war audience yet, as we well know, quite another to a more conventional Democratic base audience, plays into the widely held belief that she walks safely down the middle and plays both sides of each issue. In fact, on the war, polling has borne out the success of this strategy and John Edwards for one is sick of it.

In a statement released today, the John Edwards campaign calls her out:

Senator Hillary Clinton's view that the president's Iraq policy is 'working' is another instance of a Washington politician trying to have it both ways. You cannot be for the President's strategy in Iraq but against the war. The American people deserve straight talk and real answers on Iraq, not double-speak, triangulation, or political positioning.

...even as it goes on to concede Clinton's main point:

Our military's hard-won progress in Al-Anbar province should not distract us from the fact that pouring more military resources into Iraq is no substitute for the comprehensive national political solution that will ultimately resolve the situation in Iraq.

Now, I much prefer Edwards's position on the war generally and his framing of the "surge" more specifically, but let's not pretend it's a terribly substantive disagreement. There's plenty of having it both ways to go around. My larger issue with Clinton is when she chooses to reinforce right-wing talking points, whether it be her oft-repeated refrain "we're safer but not safe enough," or when she suggested that some Democrats don't think we face a real threat from terrorism, or elsewhere in her VFW speech where she clumsily transitions from talking about 9/11 and fighting terrorists directly into her praise for the new tactics in Iraq as though they're related. Talk about Bush/Cheney light. The more I hear her say stuff like this, the more Obama's accusation rings true.



Display:


Absolutely pathetic... (none / 0)

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2 007/08/21/iraq/print.html


by bookgrl on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:04:58 PM EST

Ok, not so pathetic. Sorry. (none / 0)

I thought you were claiming there were substantive differences.  However, I think that speech was more nuanced.  No serious person would think she was endorsing the surge.  She was clear, that we had to withdraw.


by bookgrl on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok, not so pathetic. Sorry. (none / 0)

No serious person would think she was endorsing the surge.
Emphasis added to make a point.

The no serious part should be bolded as some here apparently can't read plain English.


by DoIT on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Absolutely pathetic... (none / 0)

The reason the pundits miss the mark is because they don't bother to click the C-SPAN link and listen to Clinton's 40 minutes speech. They read the AP story with chopped up half-sentence quotes and opine from there.

In this case, their headlines were 180 degree out of phase with what Clinton really said to the VFW. The giveaway, to anyone who bothered to listen to the speech, was that Clinton prefaced her Iraq remarks to the pro-surge VFW audience by saying, "you probably won't agree with me on this."

If the media would do less paraphrasing and invest the exact same word count into full quotes, we would all be better served.


by hwc on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Absolutely pathetic... (none / 0)

That AP story was ridiculous.  


by bookgrl on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:20:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (none / 0)

At least those that cry wolf over another front pager , can now let us have peace.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:13:03 PM EST

Nice (none / 0)

Nice.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:13:14 PM EST

okay (none / 0)


The more I hear her say stuff like this, the more Obama's accusation rings true.

Pretty amusing.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:14:19 PM EST

Okay, wait, that is a pathetic statement. (3.00 / 1)


by bookgrl on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, wait, that is a pathetic statement. (none / 0)

I'm tired of responding these false accusations. I'll just leave this frontpage diary and let other Hillary fans to continue the fight.

I don't believe this sort of attack will have any impact whatsoever in real world.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, me too. I'm bored with (none / 0)

this.


by bookgrl on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards Campaign Responds (3.00 / 1)

You cannot be for the President's strategy in Iraq but against the war. The American people deserve straight talk and real answers on Iraq, not double-speak, triangulation, or political positioning.

I'm not an Edwards supporter, but I have to admit that's a great line.  Remember that Hillary is for the President's strategy because she supports the war.  She has supported it from the moment she voted for it in Oct. 2002.  She only (temporarily) stopped supporting it when she started running for the Dem nomination.


by Will Graham on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:29:14 PM EST

Beeton Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (none / 0)

I was willing to have a serious discussion about the subject of this diary until I read the second to last sentence. Then the very last sentence confirmed it would be a waste of my time to attempt to have an intelligent conversation with you.


by DoIT on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:37:24 PM EST

I don't get it (3.00 / 1)

You should be leaping at an opportunity to argue on behalf of your preferred candidate. Instead, you belittle Todd and dismiss the entire foreign policy debate as beneath you. Why? Because Todd Beeton expressed an opinion that you didn't like.

Now is the time to convince people! Now is the time to win over people like me-- legitimately undecided-- and win over soft supporters. This is a website of dedicated progressive activists, and people like Todd Beeton and Jerome Armstrong have the knowledge and connections to really help your candidate. Engage them! Argue!

Even if you don't win an argument, you'll be better off because of it, and maybe you'll convince someone next time. Or, who knows, maybe you'll be convinced by someone else. Anyone with an open mind must be willing to entertain the notion that maybe, just maybe, they're wrong about something.

It's not just you, and it's not just Clinton supporters (though it seems to come up a lot with them). For every campaign, it's become less about convincing others and more about overwhelming the other side with your side's talking points.

You aren't willing to have an intelligent conversation with Todd Beeton? Fine. Have one with me.

Tell me what Edwards got wrong and what Todd Beeton got wrong in this post (besides those last two sentences). Convince me that Hillary Clinton has it right.


Walberg Watch - Following Radical Conservative Rep. Tim Walberg in MI-07
by Fitzy on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't get it (none / 0)

Like I said. I was cool till the last two sentences. That is when stupidity and bias set in.


by DoIT on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't get it (none / 0)

I realize that it was the last two sentences that bothered you. But you ought to be able to move beyond that.

Edwards, in my opinion, makes some valid points. You, I assume, disagree.

If you refuse to even discuss the issue because Todd Beeton said something that upset you, I shall continue to think that Edwards has valid points. How does that help Hillary Clinton?

Now, if you move on and debate the substance, rather than criticizing one throw-away remark, there's a chance that I could be convinced, as could others like me.

Isn't that worth your time?


Walberg Watch - Following Radical Conservative Rep. Tim Walberg in MI-07
by Fitzy on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:25:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't get it (none / 0)

what you're missing fitzy is that there were about 20 diaries about this yesterday, including one by i think Lori which actually had her text. If Edwards wants to spin this go ahead, but as soon as people actually read the speech and hear what she said, they will just think edwards is playing to the anti war left, again.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:24:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Forked Tongue (3.00 / 1)

I'm so tired of these "nuanced" speeches. Especially for someone who helped to authorize this war she should be clear and unequivocal.
*The invasion in Iraq is a war of foreign occupation.
*The consequences of that occupation are civil war.
*The resolution of that civil war is not more occupation, but a political settlement by Iraqis. *Period.....

It looks to me like pandering and speaking out of two sides of her mouth. The VFW is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Republican Party. Why cater to that crowd? Just about the time I begin to think she might be a good candidate she pulls something like this. And on a day when we have other turncoats like Rep. Brian Baird of Washtington State who have betrayed their constituents. Damn, let's have a candidate who can speak clearly and to the point. And let's clean out the barn of these other Bush-dog Democrats.


by cmpnwtr on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:41:09 PM EST

And as usual (none / 0)

the usual line of Clintonistas cry foul.


by KainIIIC on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:45:21 PM EST

seriously... (none / 0)

if they hate the idea of their candidate being labeled "Bush lite" they should tell her that she needs to stop looking like a Bush lite.

The fact that every time she opens hew mouth, her supported run out to defend her by having to clarify her statements every time seems to point to Hillary's (and her supporters) inability to show what she is really for. She is acting very Nixonian when it comes to the war, as if she has some secret plan to end it but not really telling us clearly what she would do.


by need some wood on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:51:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: seriously... (none / 0)

actually, if the AP didnt mess up in reporting there wouldnt be a need to clarify anything. Take your griping to the AP.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:47:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Having Your Cake and Eating it Too (none / 0)

On the Iraq war, it has been clear for some time now that Hillary wants to have her cake and eat it too.  She wants to be anti-war for the Democratic primaries, then pro-war for the general election.  So...technically, she is both pro-war and anti-war at the same time.  See, generally, this comment.

I imagine her closest advisors have a lifetime of experience with helping politicians straddle both sides of an issue.  No doubt their experience tells them that being all things to all people is smart politics.  It will be interesting to see if it pans out that way in 2007-2008.  

In particular, are voters, instead, going to vote for a more authentic President?  Somebody who does not play the old political games?  We shall see.  


by Demo37 on Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 11:53:31 PM EST

Not something to celebrate (3.00 / 1)

I'm not a Clinton supporter, and I think there ARE important, substantive differences between Clinton and Edwards's different plans for Iraq, but Edwards' framing of this particular issue is silly. Lines like "You cannot be for the President's strategy in Iraq but against the war" do a great disservice to substantive, thoughtful debate on the subject by simplifying the debate to supporting Bush vs. wanting to end the war. That flattening of a complex issue into a one-dimensional choice is bad for intra-party debate on Iraq because it precludes discussion of the intricacies of the different plans for exit that are on the table by making the choice of policies a simple choice between "the Bush strategy" and "not the Bush strategy" (maybe this is Edwards' goal, since he hasn't been particularly substantive on a plan for withdrawal, though neither have the other leading candidates). This framing of the issue as a choice between the president's strategy and an amorphous, undefined alternative is also eerily similar to the sort of thinking that has mired the Iraq debate from the beginning - the refusal to think seriously about the complex details of the many policy options available, the avoidance of nuanced critique of possible consequences of our actions, and the "you're with us you're against us" mentality. Regardless of what was intended in Clinton's remarks and regardless of the actual merits of her position (which should be debated thoroughly), the choice on Edwards' part to try to shut off nuanced dialogue by forcing a binary choice between the president's policies and an undefined alternative is disappointing.


by California Liberal on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:02:40 AM EST

Re: Not something to celebrate (none / 0)

Edwards is looking for ANYTHING to try and drive a wedge in-between Hillary and the electorate. He is so far behind in the national polls that unless he attempts to tear down Hillary he doesn't stand the chance of getting anyone's real support (beyond his standard 15%.) So Edwards can be expected to tear into every single thing she says or does. Funniest thing though, while he is busy attempting to tear down Hillary on this issue, he is talking her up by attacking Bush on his S-CHIP threats. Of course Edwards doesn't come right out in support of Hillary, he just champions S-CHIP. He might as well be thanking Hillary personally. But I am sure you wouldn't want to write about that.


by DoIT on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:18:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a Chess Match, Not an Ivory Tower Debate (3.00 / 1)

I think you are failing to notice that the public relations battle for continuing the Iraq war/occupation indefinitely (as Bush and some generals want) or ending it by the end of next year (as perhaps 70% of registered Democrats want) is taking place right now.  We are in the middle of a major, monthlong public relations battle (for public opinion) that will culminate in Petraus' report, and the reponse to that.  You can get a flavor for what is really going on if you read today's Post.

Now, one way to respond to this is to say let's have a grand debate in Congress with Republicans and Democrats holding hands.  That seems reasonable. Yet, bear in mind that regardless of what the Congress debates, Bush wants to continue this war into the next president's term.  As Biden says, Bush is going to try to run out the clock on his war.  He is not going to budge on this, unless, somehow, forced to.

With that in mind, what should the Democrats do?  Hold firm, with no backsliding, on ending the war by the end of 2008?  Or debate amongst ourselves, splinter into different camps, and ultimately, therefore, do nothing?  

Shall we just let George Bush continue his war...and hand it off to the next president?  If the Democrats backslide as Hillary's language here comes close to supporting, Bush will get his wish...and the war will be handed off.

There is a political chess match with Bush going on here.  This is not an ivory tower debate.  If you fail to see that, then you are missing the forest for the trees.


by Demo37 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 01:21:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (none / 0)

And the definition of 'is' is.....

What exactly? The Hillary supporters here want to deny what she said. They want to 'interpret' away her support for current policy in The MeatGrinder.

Not gonna happen. These words, not the first such she has spoken by the way, are out of her mouth. Too late to triangulate.

Hillary will be an utter disaster for our nation if elected. She has no more understanding of the political and military requirements to end our ILLEGAL OCCUPATION OF IRAQ that George Bush does.

She no more understands the economic and social challenges our nation faces than George Bush does.

How could she?

She too busy hanging out with Rupert Murdoch and such, and many of the same people George Bush does, to ever 'get it' as far as what our nation needs.

Progressive leadership.

Which she has exactly zero of.
.


by Pericles on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:58:20 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (none / 0)

Slow down , you might trip over .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 01:15:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (none / 0)

Whoops!

Almost lost it there....

Thanks for the tip.


by Pericles on Thu Aug 23, 2007 at 08:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What Clinton actually said (3.00 / 1)

How hard is it to actually look at what Clinton said about Iraq. I posted the link to the video of her full speech the other day, but here's the transcript of her comments on Iraq:

I have met with our brave men and women serving in Iraq, and I have seen first hand the sacrifices they are making. And when the history of the Iraq War is written, I want future generations to know that our troops did everything our country asked of them, everything their commanders asked of them, everything their comrades expected of them, everything they expected of themselves.

They were asked to get rid of Saddam Hussein and bring him to justice, and they did. They were asked to provide the Iraqi people with free elections so they could elect their own government, and they did. They were asked to give the Iraqi government the space and time they needed to do what only the Iraqis can do to stabilize their own country.

There is a vigorous debate in our own nation, and probably among many of you, about the right way forward in Iraq. I know we may disagree about whether there is or isn't a military solution to this war.

Having been there, having studied it and having seen the heroism and the accomplishments of our troops, I do not believe that we alone can impose a military solution. And I do not think the Iraqis are ready to do what they have to do for themselves yet.

Therefore, I think it is unacceptable for our troops to be caught in the crossfire of a sectarian civil war while the Iraqi government is on vacation. I think it is time the Iraqi government took responsibility for themselves and their country, because the American people and our American military cannot want freedom and stability for the Iraqis more than they want it for themselves.

As we move forward in these next months awaiting a report from General Petraeus, we have some very hard decisions to make. I'm not sure there are any good options. But one decision I know we will make is to continue to honor the service of our own American troops and to make sure that they are given the respect that they so richly have earned.

Some of us will disagree. I think the best way of honoring their service is by beginning to bring them home and making sure that when they come home that we have everything ready for them.

The excerpt being bandied about wasn't even about Iraq, per se. It was about building a 21st century military:

These are just some of the challenges we face in this increasingly complex world.
One area that I am particularly concerned about is the spread of global terrorism. As a senator from New York, I am too familiar with the horrors of the attack on our city and our country on 9/11.

I was there the day after with a small group of office holders, and I saw those firefighters coming out of that black curtain of smoke and debris. We couldn't even see them until they broke clear, having worked around the clock, dragging their fire axes.

And at that moment, I certainly made a commitment I have tried to follow through on, and that is not only to do everything I could for our first responders who, like our Gulf War veterans, suffered because of the work they did at Ground Zero, many of them not only getting sick, but now dying of the exposures that they breathed starting after the attack, but I also made a full commitment to martial American power, resources and values in the global fight against these terrorists.

That begins with ensuring that America does have the world's strongest and smartest military force. We've begun to change tactics in Iraq, and in some areas, particularly in Al Anbar province, it's working.

We're just years too late changing our tactics. We can't ever let that happen again. We can't be fighting the last war. We have to be preparing to fight the new war.

And this new war requires different tactics and strategies. We've got to be prepared to maintain the best fighting force in the world.

I propose increasing the size of our Army by 80,000 soldiers, balancing the legacy systems with newer programs to help us keep our technological edge, re-evaluating the training and education programs that service members need in the 21st century.

And let's be sure that the American military does not fight terrorism alone. It is time that we demanded that our alliances, including NATO, are united with us in this fight, and that their intelligence, law enforcement and homeland security systems are working together with ours.

And let's not forget that the war on terror, like the Cold War, is fundamentally a battle over ideas and values. I'm fighting for a Cold War medal for everyone who served our country during the Cold War, because you were on the front lines of battling communism.

Well, now we're on the front lines of battling terrorism, extremism, and we have to win. Our commitment to freedom, to tolerance, to economic opportunity has inspired people around the world. They're not just what we fight for. They can be our most powerful weapons in this fight.

I want to get back to a point where people respect and admire the United States again, not just because that would be a good thing, but because that's critical in our fight against terrorism.

People have to root for America. They have to want to be on our side. Somebody knowing that another member of their community is perhaps putting together suicide bomb kits has to think twice about whether to say nothing or maybe to tell somebody.

Law enforcement in countries that could become havens for terrorists have to believe that American values are not just about America, but they speak to the human dignity, the God-given spark that resides in each and every person across the world.



by hwc on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 01:16:45 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (3.00 / 1)

I never would have said this about a blog before, but I think you've either pulled or repeated a deceptive paragraph break.

If you watched the video, (rtsp://video.c-span.org/archive/c08/c08 _082007_clinton.rm?mode=compact)
on c-span, timecode 37:21 you'd see that those two pieces were spoken within a second of each other: within the same thought. In other words, in your quote there's this suggestion that she said with finality that the surge worked.

On the contrary she clearly acknowledges the progress in some areas while noting that the change in tactics is years too late. I congratulate Edwards for his blind sense of political expediency seizing upon Fox News' position today but failing to notice his own hypocrisy: he's siding with the very people he criticizes for being biased.

As for conceding to right wing talking points, I don't see how not disagreeing with the facts of Petraeus' upcoming progress report (like what happened in Al-Anbar) is a right wing talking point. And as for "we're safer but not yet safe enough," I've had this disagreement with people before but no one can argue that there aren't stricter safety requirements in place now than there were before. That's why she emphasizes having a smart military and a smart holistic strategy. We can bolster security at airports, etc. but we still need to have a reasonable international strategy: a sentiment with which all of the Democrats agree.

(And BTW, on the rest of your post, you needn't ask me where you can put your "Bush/Cheney light" epithet.)


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 03:58:52 AM EST

Honor The Troops Bring Them Home (none / 0)

Clinton is actually outflanking both Obama and Edwards on the issue.  Bloggers were so convinced it was just theater that business with the Pentagon a couple weeks ago, when in actuality the issue of Withdrawal was very much in play and Clinton one the stand off.

No she says Honor the Troops Bring Them Home.

No wonder Edwards is having a conniption fit.

Remember.  Honor the Troops.  Bring them Home!


by Edgar08 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 04:11:33 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds To Clinton's Remarks (none / 0)

Obama has nothing to do with this either.  Sorry, but diarist either needs to keep his pro-Obama stances limited to Mondays or be taken off the FP here.


by benny06 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 07:09:22 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Responds (none / 0)

unfortunately todd is trying to make a mountain out of an anthill and cannot seriously back up his premise without looking hypocritical and foolish.

The fact that this is a front page post is laughable. This was debated to death yesterday, and if front page posters want to be taken seriously, they should read the entire text of the speech (or watch it, links have been plentiful) without adding their own spin or looking foolish by quoting AP wires as the full story.

Funny how the same people harping on this issue are some of the people who defended Obama to high heaven when the AP wire about unilateral action on Pakistan was brought up.

Hypocrisy at its best. MYDD at its worst.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 11:53:02 AM EST

Democrats need a peace candidate (none / 0)

Senator Clinton is trying to appeal to everyone, and losing credibility in the process.  

You can't say the recent change in tactics is having some positive results, and then say you're not talking about the surge.  You can't say you will end the war if elected, and then say you will leave 50,000 troops there to keep doing pretty much what they are doing now.  But she does.

Even more ominous than the coded soft support for the surge are her words about fighting "the new war."  This is getting major discussion on YouTube, where people think she is talking about Iran.  


by Lex on Wed Aug 22, 2007 at 12:45:59 PM EST


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