[Updated] The Politics of Hope Is Not the Politics of Submission

I have a huge beef with Maggie North of Claremont, a supposed Obama supporter, who "warned" the Senator Monday:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2007/08/13/AR2007081300912. html?hpid=sec-politics

"you've got to stop -- excuse me for being blunt -- you've got to stop getting involved in the way people are fighting each other, chewing you up a little more."

In other words, stop defending yourself and start taking it like a sacrificial lamb. Inevitably by attracting a large number of young supporters Obama was going to disappoint some of those who do not remember and do not yet understand that politics is about Swift Boating and pre-empting your opponent's narrative, not tea and crumpets.

Obama responded to Maggie appropriately:

"That's what you do when you run for president," Obama responded, getting a laugh.

Nevertheless, Maggie's clueless comment gave Matt Drudge as well as the Republican Party smear machine ammunition for a prompt message through a RNC spokeswoman, noting that:

"Unfortunately for Barack Obama, this campaign is not a fraternity hazing ritual, and Americans are not going to elect a rookie politician who has ditched his 'politics of hope' mantra and gone on the attack now that he's dropping in the polls," Amber Wilkerson said."

The idea that Obama is somehow engaging in unjustified attacks is ludicrous. Obama has responded to attacks that he is "naïve and irresponsible," that he talks to openly about issues like using nuclear weapons, and that he "is not black enough." If anything, Obama has been far too tame in responding to his critics, Republican, Democratic, MSM, and otherwise. The result of this timidity is on display in today's Political Insider, which is representative of the trash coming out of the mainstream media these days, in which Obama is accused of being wrong because... he was right:
http://politicalinsider.com/2007/08/bara t_obama.html

"Then came the threat to bomb Pakistan; to me, anyway, he was correct to say this -- but in the public mind, in the wake of the first misstep, it wound up looking like a candidate reactively struggling to define himself. Then came the casual comment that we'd never use nuclear weapons along the Pakistan/Afghanistan border. This too might have been defensible, but it was followed by his "scratch that" dissembling -- and a very adult taking to task by Hillary. And now we have the latest: a puzzling statement that in Afghanistan, our military is "just" bombing villages and killing civilians. Well, yes, it may be partially true -- but you cannot win an argument when you start out by appearing to malign U.S. troops.

For all three "missteps," the writer admits Obama may have been or likely was right. But he is nonetheless criticized for (1) "reactively struggling to define himself," (translation: stating a clear position on the issues after happening to be criticized a week earlier by an opponent who has not stated clear positions on the issues) (2) making "casual comment[s]" and "dissembling," (translation: qualifying a response to a reporter that he knew would quickly be taken out of context), and (3) making a "puzzling statement" that appears to "malign the U.S. troops" (translation: criticizing current U.S. military policy which, INEVITABLY, involves criticizing what U.S. troops are currently doing, through no fault of their own).

If Obama does not respond, and respond assertively to this kind of nonsense, then slowly but surely up becomes down and down becomes up and before you know it, a Swiftboating is the result. If anything, the politics of hope requires more assertiveness than politics as usual, not less. By attempting to change the paradigm and question establishment assumptions like Obama has done with regards to foreign policy and lobbying over the past two weeks, he inevitably opens himself up to vicious attacks by those desperate to maintain the status quo. Without a willingness to defend himself, "hope" and "vision for change" will be twisted and re-framed as "unsure of himself" "inexperienced", "naive idealist", and "unfit to lead."

We have seen similar, perhaps even worse attacks on John Edwards, for his haircut, investments, etc., over the past few weeks as well. This too is a response to Edwards' challenge to status quo thinking on poverty and the role of government. But unlike Obama, Edwards is not hampered by a misunderstood politics of hope, (admittedly, a misunderstanding that the Obama campaign has failed to remedy) and so John and Elizabeth Edwards have responded with justifiable assertiveness. Stories about Edwards' hair (which has already been thoroughly diaried) and comments like Maggie's are given inane attention, while analysis of policies and other substantive political news are ignored or -- worse still -- discussed only in light of how they relate to these nonsensical stories. Naive comments like Maggie's force Obama between a rock and a hard place, at least in the hyper-reality of American political media coverage. Either he is naive and inexperienced or hypocritically shrill.

The politics of hope and change is as much or more about substantive policy change and a vision for the country as it is about the tone and temperament of politics. But I fully admit, it is ALSO about tone and temperament. So in that respect, Obama will inevitably be held to a higher standard than many of his opponents. That is fair. Thus, criticisms of his campaign for the memo naming Hillary Clinton as D-Punjabi were fully justified. But the added emphasis on tone and temperament does not mean that the politics of hope must slowly slide into the politics of submission.

The politics of hope and change in Washington, although condemning base appeals to sexism, racism, religious division, regionism, or attacks on personal lives of politicians, requires assertive defenses of one's policies and vision for the future of the country. It also necessitates making distinctions between the policies and visions of those who support the status quo. Obama is right to point out that nuclear weapons should be off the table against Pakistan. Obama is right to point out that, apparently unlike many of his opponents, the only war we should be fighting is against al qaeda. Obama is right that lobbyist influence must be curtailed. Obama is right that we need more dialogue with hostile nations around the world. And Obama is right to defend these positions through distinctions with the positions of his opponents when he is attacked.

Sorry Maggie, you are certainly entitled to voice your opinion, but I fundamentally disagree with you.  Hopefully Obama's campaign will benefit from your criticism by (1) realizing that some of its supporters are under naive misconceptions about Obama's politics, (2) correcting that misconception, and (3) doing the opposite of what you advise. But Maggie, if you only want change and hope if it comes through obedient submission to criticism, then I think you are supporting the wrong candidate.

Update [2007-8-15 7:50:4 by thenew]: - This morning Obama has an interview with the Washington Post in which he brings out more of a contrast with Hillary Clinton on a number of issues and especially foreign policy. Notice that the Clinton campaign's response is to argue that Obama is "turning away from the politics of hope," pushing the narrative that Maggie has reinforced. All the more reason why Obama needs to explain more clearly that the politics of hope is not the politics of submission. It is nonetheless good to see he is ignoring Maggie's advice. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/14/AR2007081401939.html?hpid=artslot

Display:


O (3.00 / 1)

needs to get out there and make sure Hillary can't run the Lieberman campaign - which was any contrast or pointing out of facts is an "attack"


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:37:18 PM EST

Re: The Politics of Hope Is Not the Politics of Su (none / 0)

I think it is important to see that nearly 60% of voters in OH, FL and NH think that Obama is not experienced to be Commander-In-Chief! That is the BIGGEST drag than a woman who has her approval ratings in the high 40s.

With Obama, we can say goodbye to the White House for another 8 years. With Hillary, no guarantee, but a credible shot!


by American1989 on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:49:04 PM EST

Re: The Politics of Hope Is Not the Politics of Su (none / 0)

Yeah, well we'll see once voters in those states (other than NH) actually learn who Obama is.


better luck next universe
by thenew on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You sound uninformed and a bit silly (none / 0)

Democrats are not going to lose Congress.  Democrats .. even by Republican estimates ... will gain seats in 08.

The fact is that with even their current margain, Nacy and Harry would have to be caught in a threesome with a goat in order for the Democrats to lose Congress in even 3 cycles.  We'll hold Congress for the next 6 years even if we are inept (which I don't think we are).


by dpANDREWS on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:55:00 PM EST

Re: You sound uninformed and a bit silly (none / 0)

I hope you are right.  I am optimistic, right now.  But we all know that climate, NOW, does not mean it will be the same 6 months from now.

Although the presidential race is interesting, for the dems, I do have concern about increasing democrats in the house and senate.

We need to increase so we will not constantly have the bickering currently, and legislation can pass, quickly.

So, I am on the fence in this one.  November 2008 is more than a year away.  We don't know who the top two will be from prospective parties, nor how the public will react as a whole.  So, I am in a wait and see mode, but I am optimistic.


by iamready on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 10:39:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But will Obama campaign hard and often in FL? (none / 0)

Can he win California?  

Where will he get the delegates to win the nomination?


by dpANDREWS on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:56:19 PM EST

I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

was a Hillary plant.  Obama should fight back against attacks over his credibility and judgment to be president.

He is the only candidate who the inexperience meme is constantly mention with.  He is the only candidate who they say lacks substance and specifics and then when he provides it they say that is does not matter.  He is the only candidate they say is a rookie when he breaks from conventional wisdom regarding foreign policy but when they find out that Hillary also says it they completely over look it.

So tell Maggie, with all due respect, stuff it.  I want Obama to fight back and to continue pointing out the inconsistencies of the MSM as well as Hillary's changing foreign policy agenda.

He is doing one hell of a job and I am not afraid to say that I am extremely proud of the guy.


Obama Citizen Ad Videos
by lovingj on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:56:21 PM EST

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

He is the only candidate who the inexperience meme is constantly mention with.

That might have something to do with the fact that Obama is the only candidate (at least in my lifetime) who has had the audacity to run for President just two years removed from a statehouse seat.

The reason he can't shake the inexperienced tag is that it is the truth. He is inexperienced on the national stage.


by hwc on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:02:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

What about Rudy? He was just a mayor, and no one gives him any crap about experience.

Bill Clinton wasn't experienced on the "national stage."

I just don't buy the argument that there is something uniquely unexperienced about Obama. Also, presidents generally surround themselves with highly experienced experts, who advise the president with the relevant information. It's far more important that the president demonstrate (1) an openness to advice and (2) a record of sound judgment. In these respects, I think Obama looks rather good. He has a reputation for open-mindedness, and his opposition to the war invites confidence in his judgment--arguably more than the judgment of Clinton, Edwards, and other canidates who helped take us into a dumb war (I know he wasn't in the Senate to vote at the time, but it still distinguishes his judgment to some extent).


by DPW on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

That should say "inexperienced."


by DPW on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:42:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (3.00 / 1)

Bill Clinton had served as Governor for 12 years and was a major figure in Democratic Party organization. For example, he had been head of the Governor's conference.

No offense to any statehouse reps in the crowd, but let's be serious. Statehouse rep is a part-time job that is one step up from being county commissioner.

You could go back 100 years and not find a serious presidential candidate 2 years removed from the statehouse when they declared for the Presidency.

Jimmy Carter was inexperienced, having served two terms as a State Senator and one term as Governor.

George W. was inexperienced, having served five years as Governor.

But, nobody comes close to Obama's lack of big league experience.


by hwc on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:36:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

All state legislatures are not created equal.  The Illinois legislature is a full time legislature.  Illinois is not like Texas, where they meet for a couple of months every two years.  In any case, none of the top three candidates on the D side have the level of experience in elected office as Dodd, Biden or Richardson, and in terms of years in elected office Obama has more experience than Clinton.  She only has a handful of years in the Senate on him, and her years as first lady are not that relevant in my view, as that is not a political office.  Besides, it looks like we are not going to learn much about her years as first lady with her papers being locked up and there isn't really much to tell about her tenure in the Senate besides her voting to authorize the Iraq war, trying to amend the constitution to ban flag burning and censoring video games.


"In the face of impossible odds, people who love their country can change it." Barack Obama
by whitbreadale on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 09:06:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

"as that is not a political office"

It isn't an elected office, but it is a highly politicized office. Especially during the Clinton years. She had an office in the west wing for a reason.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:03:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

If that is indeed the case, then maybe the Republicans can run Laura Bush and not agonize over having to choose between the flip-flopping Mormon, the pro-choice crossdresser or the heretic McCain.  Be that as it may, the first lady is not a constitutional office and if has become policitized to the point that it can be regarded a springboard to the presidency, then that is a dangerous thing.


"In the face of impossible odds, people who love their country can change it." Barack Obama
by whitbreadale on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:40:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

Your whole point seems to be:

I don't want it to count, so it doesn't!

Instead of looking at reality, you want reality to conform to your own preferences. And to do that you twist facts and misconstrue other people comments.

Did I say that just being first lady made you fit to become president? That it can be regarded a springboard to the presidency? I didn't. And history show something different as well. Hillary had a very different role as just being first lady and she used it combined with her other experiences as a springboard to become a senator. Hillary took her senatorship as a springboard to run for president. Just like Obama used his state senatorship as a springboard to become a senator, and used his status as a senator to run for president

And as for the politicized function of first lady being a dangerous thing. It's been this way since before Eleanor Roosevelt. There are plenty of nonconstitutional offices that would give relevent experience that should be counted.

If Laura Bush had her experience and had chosen the same sort of role as Clinton, I'd say she'd likely would've been tapped to run for office in Texas. But of course the point is that she didn't choose to have the same role, and that Laura doesn't have the same experience as Clinton.

You're simply trying use guilt by association. Laura Bush is unaccomplished in her role as first lady so Hillary status of a first lady is irrelevant! The real world doesn't work like that. It's a strawman argument. Clinton's status as  a former politically active First lady gives her some experience in the white house, just like an advisor would have experience in the Whitehouse and would better know what to expect there.

You want to be able to say that Obama is just as experienced as any major candidate if not more. And you interpreted the facts in a way that allows you to do so. Honesty doesn't come into it. Cherry picking does.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 05:24:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I wouldn't be suprise if that (none / 0)

I'll be perfectly frank and say that I do have a big problem with the way that HRC conducted herself as first lady and the dangerous precedent she set.  I don't deny that it may have become a politicized role over the years, but that doesn't mean that it is a good thing.  Furthermore, the way that Clinton conducted herself was light years from what Eleanor Roosevelt was doing.  Did Eleanor Roosevelt threaten to "demonize" other Democratic senators if they didn't get on board with her agenda? These various manifestations of the co-presidency, whether it is Dick Cheney playing that role or the Clinton's "two for the price of one" are dangerous on a constitutional level.  At least the vice-presidency is an elected constitutional office.  That of the first lady is not, and she should not be involved in crafting policy on the level that HRC did.  The first lady is not elected and that is not her role.  Regardless, if she is going to count her years as first lady as relevant experience, then I think that we should know something about that record.  Locking up her papers seems to be counterproductive the argument that she is trying to make.


"In the face of impossible odds, people who love their country can change it." Barack Obama
by whitbreadale on Thu Aug 16, 2007 at 10:09:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good job new. Please rec. (none / 0)


Obama Citizen Ad Videos
by lovingj on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:58:15 PM EST

Hillary is engaged in a new fight with WH (none / 0)

The White House attacked her today over her new Iowa ad.  Seems they didn't like it.

Obama is engaged in a fight with a supporter.

Is it better to have a peeing match with the White House or with a supporter?  Who is winning the battle of news cycles?


by dpANDREWS on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:59:03 PM EST

Re: Hillary is engaged in a new fight with WH (3.00 / 2)

I do agree it is an effective political strategy to engage in a fight with the White House. But Obama had a fight with a supporter? Come on. He responded politely to a question. How about the heckler who showed up at Hillary's speech? This happens to all the major candidates.

How about I re-frame it this way:

Hillary is engaged in an argument with Bush over "invisible" people. Obama is busy listening to them.


better luck next universe
by thenew on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:04:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is engaged in a new fight with WH (none / 0)

I wouldn't call it polite.  It struck me as dismissive.  How embarrassing to ask a question of a presidential candidate and have everyone laugh at you.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:28:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In Barry's world, its all about Barry (none / 0)

He was dismissive because he is arrogant.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:20:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In Barry's world, its all about Barry (none / 0)

I won't go that far.  I think he has a good way with people in general.  This particular response was a little too flip.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Look at his body language (none / 0)

The way he talks with is chin up and his head often tilted to the side.   That is telegraphing arrogance.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:33:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Look at his body language (none / 0)

Are you serious? This stuff clearly isn't going to convince anyone, so I am starting to wonder if you actually believe it?

I believe the word you are looking for is "confidence." The kind of confidence you get from being President of the premiere legal journal in the world, from being a thoughtful and critical thinker, from organizing "invisible" people rather than just seeing and arguing about them, from being a state legislator working on and actually seeing the results of issues that directly effect those people for eight years.


better luck next universe
by thenew on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 10:27:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Confidence? I don't think so. (none / 0)

If he was confident he wouldn't stutter so much.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:28:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Confidence? I don't think so. (none / 0)

Again, the word you are looking for is "thinking," not stuttering. When every word you utter isn't a pre-selected talking point sometimes you have to do that.


better luck next universe
by thenew on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:20:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary ascharacterized by a fellow democrat (3.00 / 1)

A friend of mine sent this to me about Hillary:

My problem with Hillary is not that she is a woman. Let me outline my problems with HRC once again:

1a. She takes lobbyist money.
b. Has taken more money from the big pharma than any other member of congress.
c. Fundraised with Rupert Murdoch.
2a. She voted for the war in Iraq.
b. Refuses to admit Iraq vote was a mistake.
c. Has no specific plan for getting out of Iraq.

  1. She ducks questions instead of answering them(I wonder if she asked Alberto Gonzales for advice).
  2. She has not yet outlined her healthcare plan yet claims to be an authority on the healthcare issue(trying to singularly push your own plan a decade ago and failing miserably doesn't count). Her impartiality on the healthcare issue is questionable(see 1b).
5a. She claims to be experienced when in reality she has only held political office for 8 years, making her but a junior senator.
b. Carpetbagged her way into the New York Senate seat on her husband's coattails, at the expense of other democrats up for the position.
6a. She is at best shifty and loose with what she says and at worst a hypocrite for criticising Obama's statement on nuclear weapons as well as his stance on Pakistan when she said similiar things, if not in nearly as elaborate terms.
b. She has yet to make any foreign policy proposals of her own.
c. She's running for president yet won't deal in hypotheticals, which suggests to me that she is either rhetorically challenged or just plain manipulative with facts. Both of which are good reasons not to elect her.
7a. She believes it is her role to "take on the right-wing machine". Consequently, the right-wing machine feels more inclined to take her on. Consequently, she legitimizes the right-wing machine and give it a recent to turn people out to vote, when they would not have voted for the dismal Republican field otherwise.
b. 48% of Americans will NEVER vote for her. I'm not sure how much more this can be stressed. When you're left having to convince pretty much all of the other 52%, you better be a pretty darn convincing candidate.
c. HRC is NOT a pretty darn convincing candidate(see 1-6)
d. She is easily the most polarising candidate in this election, which can only serve to further divide our country into red states and blue states if she is elected. Which again, she won't be(see 7c). This turns our politics into a cheap partisan game, serves to strengthen our lowbrow infotainment media, and harms democracy as a whole.

There you go. 7 very good reasons why Democrats absolutely should not nominate Hillary.

now I would say he is a little harsh, but he has some good reasons listed very succintly, as to why he won't support Hillary.

PS he is a local democratic official


by BDM on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 11:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary ascharacterized by a fellow democrat (none / 0)

You should make a diary of this, the list is fair and objective. No wonder the republicans want her as their opponent.


by jazzyjay on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 10:44:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary ascharacterized by a fellow democrat (none / 0)

I wonder if she asked Alberto Gonzales for advice.

Right. fair and objective. got it.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 11:05:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good diary (none / 0)


by horizonr on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 10:26:55 PM EST

Re: The Politics of Hope Is Not the Politics of Su (none / 0)

Hope, change and kumbayah. If only life and politics was that simple. For any change to become a reality it has to go through Congress. What is Obama's main issue or piece of legislation.


by bsavage on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:31:06 AM EST

Copycat (none / 0)

if I wanted to an explaination of the politics of Hope I'd ask John Edwards...copycats

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/20 07/08/elizabeth_edwards_obama_is_a_c.htm l


by world dictator on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:58:58 AM EST

Hope is on the way! (none / 0)

And don't forget "the man from Hope."

I think Barry Obama is a bit of a fake who has been running for President ever since he set foot on the Harvard campus.  

Stunts and white lies like his attacks on lobbyists (who work on his campaign and funnel checks through their wives and friends) just paint a picture of someone who thinks they have figured out how to game the system.  Voters see through that, hence Barry's falling numbers.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:27:41 AM EST

Re: your huge beef with Maggie North of Claremont (none / 0)

I just wanted to add one thing ... or ask one thing.

Was Maggie wrong to have taken Obama at this word all these past months?   Obama caught a lot of buzz and a lot of favorable ink was spilled and online donors generated because he said he was different.  He said was time for a new kind of politics.  He said the time for the same old attacks were over.

So is Maggie to blame?  Is she naive?  Or is Obama guilty of empty rhetoric ar best, and outright fraud at worst?


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:32:41 AM EST

Re: your huge beef with Maggie North of Claremont (3.00 / 1)

Do you seriously believe that his "different kind of politics" rhetoric suggested that he would not respond to criticism from other candidates? Would any reasonable person expect him to just ignore disingenuous allegations of naivete and irresponsibility?

That's just stupid and you know it.


by DPW on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:47:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has picked his fair share of fights (none / 0)

And made his fair hare of digs.

Nothing different there.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:32:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you have a cite where obama said he wasn't... (none / 0)

going to campaign?  or are you just acting stupid again?


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 08:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

your playground silliness is what is boring (none / 0)


by dpANDREWS on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 09:09:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i didn't think there was one... (none / 0)


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 10:54:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Politics of Hope Is Not the Politics (none / 0)

" I hope the dems wake up soon and smell the coffee or be doomed to be in the minority in congress for years to come."

That's ridiculous.


by Jerome Armstrong on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 08:53:36 AM EST


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