More On The California Electoral Vote Situation

As I wrote HERE, there's a rightwing movement afoot to alter the way California allocates its 55 Electoral Votes, from winner take all to a proportional system that would allocate 2 EVs to the statewide winner and the remaining 53 to the winner of each congressional district in the state. A group benignly called Californians for Equal Representation (headed up by Thomas Hiltachk, who according to CNN, is "a Sacramento election lawyer who is also general counsel for Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger") has submitted a ballot initiative (pdf w/ text here) to the CA Attorney General's office for inclusion on the June 2008 ballot. To get it on the ballot, supporters will have to collect 434,000 or so signatures from registered CA voters by November 13. Fundraising for the effort is to begin this week.

The goal is to raise $300,000 to $500,000 for polling and other preliminary organizing before gathering signatures. It could cost $2 million to collect the needed 434,000 signatures, says Kevin Eckery, spokesman for the initiative.

If the initiative were to get on the ballot and pass, it would go into effect for the 2008 presidential election and, since Republicans currently represent 19 of California's seats in congress, would likely hand the Republican candidate 20 or so EVs (essentially the equivalent of Ohio) AND the election. But to listen to the measure's backers, this has nothing to do with the motives behind the initiative -- it's about fairness and getting the candidates to not take California for granted.

"This is California saying we are tired of being the national ATM for every candidate coming out to raise funds in the spring and then disappearing by Labor Day when [candidates] go to other states when the real campaigning starts," says Mr. Eckery. He says backers want to create a better form of democracy.

It's worth noting that this is the same language used by backers of moving the primary up to Feb. 5th, many prominent Democrats among them. The problem with this defense is that, as currently written, the initiative is inherently unfair.

The new plan, which amounts to a winner-take-all system in each congressional district, means that a vote in a lower voter-turnout district is worth more than a vote in a high-turnout district. A fairer system, Mr. Stern and others say, would give whichever candidate won a given percentage of votes, the same percentage of electoral votes.

Not to mention that, as Democratic strategist Darry Sragow says:

"This is very fair if it's universal around the country," Sragow said. "It is patently absurd it if only takes place in certain states."

A similar measure that seemed destined for passage in North Carolina went down once state legislators started hearing from their constituents about it (an alternate version has it that Howard Dean quashed it.) My sense is that anything like this will be seen by voters as changing the rules in the middle of the game and hence will most likely be defeated. What it will do though is force Democrats to spend millions of dollars as an insurance policy to defeat it, dollars that could be spent going after vulnerable sitting Republicans like John Doolittle and David Dreier. Which, in the end, is likely the primary motive behind the measure in the first place. The rightwing's candidates and ballot initiatives go down every election in California so all they can hope to do is force Democrats to spend money to defeat them and thus minimize their net losses.

Update [2007-8-14 21:21:24 by Todd Beeton]: This is the exact language contained within the ballot initiative on the topic of enticing more candidates to campaign in California.

If California eliminated its "winner-take-all" system of awarding its electoral votes, Presidential candidates would have an incentive to campaign in California and to address the unique problems faced by Californians. Many geographic areas of the State would be as important to a candidate's chance for victory as many of the smaller states.
Would it really? I suspect, were this to pass, the Democratic candidate would prefer to focus time and resources on large winner take all swing states, such as Ohio (20 EVs) and Florida (27 EVs) rather than fight over a few swing districts in California. Let's look at a possible EV scenario. If the Democratic nominee wins all Kerry states (252) + likely pickups Iowa (7) and New Mexico (5) - 19 red California EVs, that leaves him or her with 245 EVs and the Republican with 293. Add to this Ohio (20) and Florida (27) and the Democrat wins 292-246. Hence, the net effect is to make OH and FL must-wins for the Democrat, which was and is currently the case for the Republican. But I don't see the Democrat spending terribly more time in California. It should be noted, even with the advantage this measure would give Republicans, it's not outside the realm of possibility for Democrats to still prevail. It's just that they know the only way they have a chance is to change the rules.

Also, I've read the speculation that only the state legislature has the power to switch how the states EVs are apportioned. I'll believe that when I hear Attny General Jerry Brown tell me so. As rfahey22 says in the comments, it may actually be more complex. For example, take a look at the language of the initiative itself:

(g) Therefore, the people, exercising their reserved legislative power guaranteed by Article II of the California Constitution, hereby enact the Presidential Election Reform Act.
But again, I'll wait for Jerry Brown to clear that one up.



Display:


One State? How can this be constitutional? (none / 0)

The provisions for electing the president are in the constitution. Doesn't the equal protection clause preclude different rules and procedures for something as important as this? How can it be constitutional for one state to divide electoral votes and another not?


by cmpnwtr on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:01:20 PM EST

Re: One State? How can this be constitutional? (none / 0)

Article II, Section 1:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress

States are allowed to appoint their electors however they please


by meekermariner on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One State? How can this be constitutional? (3.00 / 1)

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors...

A literal interpretation of those words would mean that only the legislature can change the procedure for awarding electoral votes, not a ballot initiative, executive order, or other such mechanism.

This ballot initiative is unconstitutional.


by need some wood on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:42:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One State? How can this be constitutional? (none / 0)

But the California legislature created the ballot initiative mechanism, thereby delegating some of its authority to the citizens.  I don't think the issue is quite so clear cut.  


by rfahey22 on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One State? How can this be constitutional? (none / 0)

Legislatures don't delegate to the citizens.  Citizens delegate to the legislature.

Not that I approve of initiatives and referenda, but let us always remember where political power comes from.

BC


by billcoop4 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 08:48:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One State? How can this be constitutional? (none / 0)

Legislatures don't delegate to the citizens.  Citizens delegate to the legislature.

Not that I approve of initiatives and referenda, but let us always remember where political power comes from.

BC


by billcoop4 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 08:52:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One State? How can this be constitutional? (none / 0)

Your two paragraphs don't agree with one another.

It's an open question as to whether a popular referendum falls within the meaning of "in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct."

And the Supreme Court has held that the Fourteenth Amendment constrains State discretion under this clause in a number of respects.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Electoral College - a redundancy? (none / 0)

The electoral college seems to do the same thing as the states having two senators and a proportional number of representatives.

Applying that principle to the election of the president seems unwarranted, and should be done away with. States should not have a direct say in the election of the president as they now have with the electoral college.

The president should be elected by popular vote as was done with the popular election of senators. (Amendment 17)

That better meets the Constitution's lead statement: "We the people..."


by Hempy on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 11:31:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote Situatio (none / 0)

Apportioning the electors is granted to the States by the Constitution.   Maine already uses this exact system...so a candidate can win either 3 or 4 EV's, still get 1 EV if they lose the state and carry a district.  Maine's 1st CD is a lot more conservative than the 2nd and it's been within the realm of possibility that the vote could split, but ultimately it hasn't.

I'm not nearly as sure but Nebraska may be similar.


by InigoMontoya on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:06:34 PM EST

Todd (none / 0)

Hi Todd,

I am writing to bring to your attention again on the trollish behavior of 'iamready', the former 'iceberslim'.

Despite our bloggers self-policing and warnings, 'iamready' published her  third hit piece within the past few hours, which completely violates the guidelines. Everybody knows this guideline and she knows it.

When I called her out, she simply deleted the first diary of to pretend that was only her second diary.This is very very TROLLISH behavior.

When I reported her trollish behavior under the other frontpage diary, she simply troll rated me in order to let that information disappear and not let adminstrators see it. This is outrageous.
I hope you can pay attention to this issue and take appropriate action.

Thanks.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:06:53 PM EST

Re: Todd (none / 0)

no one cares tattletale


zombies are coming
by leewesley on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:58:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote (none / 0)

I hope you're right about California voters rejecting this scam.

Frankly, I can never figure that state out.


by Bush Bites on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 08:54:49 PM EST

Classic Republicanism (none / 0)

     This is a classic case of the Republicans proposing a "reform" to clean up the mess they themselves have created.
     California went Republican in every presidential election from 1948 through 1988, excepting only 1964. Then the national Republican party fell under the dominance of wingnuts from the South and their allies in the Midwest and West, and it could no longer compete in California, because it is profoundly at odds with the values and policies of the majority of Californians.
     So now they define the problem to be "lack of national attention" and say that the way to fix the problem is to give them something they do not deserve. Even though it's obvious that their "solution" would do nothing to address the problem, since only 3 to 5 Congressional districts, widely scattered, would be in play, and they would deserve as much attention as Nevada or New Mexico, but at major-market prices.
by Ron Thompson on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:11:07 PM EST

Re: More On The California (none / 0)

so go after texas


by orin76 on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:34:37 PM EST

No initiative system in Texas (none / 0)

There being no initiative system in Texas, that'll have to wait until the Democrats take back the Leg.

Florida, on the other hand, does.  But I'd still check to see if we have a clear shot at it in 2008.  If not, then what's good for CA is good for FL, I guess.


by Rob Thorne on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 04:30:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's look at the benefits of it (none / 0)

Suppose that this proposal infact passes, I can actually see this benefiting Democrats somewhere else. How? Where? With California giving 20 Republican EVs, what would the State Democratic party do in response? Also suppose that Arnold Schwatzenager opts out of a 3rd term and his seat is won by a Democrat, we'll have by 2010 a trifecta in the state with the incentive to produce as many Electoral Votes for Democrats as possible. As you know, the 2000 California map was meant to be Gerrymandered for incumbent protection leaving 2 competitive-but-ultimately Democratic seats. This would have the effect of producing for Democrats 4-5 additional Democrats in the House, the downside of course being the 15 votes the Democratic candidate would have to overcome, the upside being that we would a 4-5 seat larger majority in the House.

It's something to think about it, but as for me, I really hope these EV split proposals, such as the one here and the NC one get defeated.


by KainIIIC on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:47:33 PM EST

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote Situatio (none / 0)

when is the electoral college going to die, when? And when will a handful of cocky primary voters stop deciding who the nominee is? Strait up pop vote, on everything.


zombies are coming
by leewesley on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 09:59:58 PM EST

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote Situatio (none / 0)

While I hope this initiative fails (and I will vote against it), I do think that there is a real problem with our election process (Yes, I'm Captain Obvious).

The primary season is dominated by issues concerning Iowa and New Hampshire, and the general election season dominated by issues concerning Ohio and Florida, while states like California and Texas are simply used as ATMs.


by Benstrader on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 10:28:56 PM EST

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote Situatio (none / 0)

Well, we do have some ammo if this were to pass...

As the linked article mentions, there are three red states we could potentially split...  that would about make up the shortfall that would occur in California...

We can also have counterproposals that would poison-pill this initiative...  or do what they tried to do in Ohio with the smoking ban, create an initiative that watered down the real one and make it a constitutional amendment, trumping the "real" initiative...

This proposal does scare me, though... most people hate the electoral college, and something like this would probably garner a good reception with the public...  I think the key to defeating it would be to basically state the truth--this initiative would water down California's importance in the general election.  Work on the California pride angle...

Let's hope we can beat this to the punch.

Thanks,

Mike


by lordmikethegreat on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 11:38:25 PM EST

who is leading the no vote? (none / 0)

Could you please call me?


by Bob Brigham on Tue Aug 14, 2007 at 11:58:46 PM EST

The North Carolina bill (none / 0)

-Had passed 3 votes in the state senate
-Had passed 2 votes in the state house (on consecutive days)
-Was pulled from the agenda and sent back to committee just 3 hours before the final vote (on the 3rd day)

It is inconceivable that legislators were flooded with calls from constituaents opposing the bill in the 15 hours between votes.  The bill had received no press at all.  Something else happened here (cough - Howard Dean - cough).

This would have flipped 4 to 6 of NC's 15 Electoral Votes over to the Dems. The bill would have split the votes by congressional district, but a proportional split by the statewide vote would be better. We are damn tired of not having our votes for Democratic Presidential candidates count in NC.


Enough is enough!
by Bear83 on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:58:10 AM EST

Re: The North Carolina bill (none / 0)

And if John Edwards is the nominee? And he wins the state? And this law is in effect? That would mean that Edwards would probably recieve 10 or 11 EVs instead of 15.


by KainIIIC on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 02:11:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This will matter more after 2008 (none / 0)

Because I think we all can agree Dems will pickup more than IA/NM and OH/FL, I would guess some Mountain West states.  Also IN,VA,NC and GA (given the right nominee maybe more).  

It is more dangerous for what it means when the republicans are not running for the hills, then again if this turns out to be a landmark election like 1932 (and this thing fails because it is so transparent) it could be a very long time before we have a close election.

Think about it, if Hillary wins and doesn't screw up, we then have Obama and Edwards in the wings (along with new comers).  If Obama or Edwards win, we get the Kennedy-style youth enthusiasm for a generation.  So long as Hillary doesn't become a drag on down ballot races, I'll take either.


http://ibrokemyrightwing.blogspot.com
by fakes seizures on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:44:52 AM EST

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote Situatio (none / 0)

Maybe Rove will spend his time working on this.


by AM on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 05:05:09 AM EST

Re: More On The California Electoral Vote Situatio (none / 0)

That was my thought when I read interviews after his resignation announcement.  He specifically said he would not be working for any 2008 presidential candidate or nominee.  Said nothing about ballot initiatives.

Katy bar the door, because I would bet this is where Mr. Permanent Republican Majority settles.


by gas28man on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 12:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who's Delegating To Whom? (none / 0)

     The U.S. Supreme Court was very clear in Bush v. Gore that the Constitution speaks of electors being selected "in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct". They might have said "the people", or "in such Manner as shall be fixed by Law in each State"--they did not. They put the power squarely in the hands of the legislature. And it is not subject to veto by a state governor. The legislature in this case is not enacting legislation, but instead is performing one of the other functions granted to it by the Constitution, of which there are several (e.g. approval of Constitutional amendments, election of Senators before passage of the 20th Amendment).
     I could understand an argument that says the legislature has delegated its power to the people's will in a referendum. But the language of the referendum does the exact opposite, claiming that the power to determine the method for selecting electors is exercised, not as a power delegated by the legislature, but as a power reserved from legislative control by the California Constitution.
     That's not where the federal Constitution put it, and by the Supremacy Clause it remains where the federal Constitution put it. Any such referendum should be struck from the ballot. If it passes, it should be thrown out by the courts. And if the courts are too corrupt to enforce the Constitution, the legislature should adopt a concurring resolution reinstationg the current procedure.
by Ron Thompson on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 01:50:29 PM EST

Thank goodness we have Jerry Brown (none / 0)

If there is a way to keep this off the ballot he will find it.

As it is CA's ballot initiative system is broken.  You can get just about anything on the ballot if you have deep enough pockets.  Professional signature collectors apparently make a lot of $$ and play both sides of the fence.  Most don't care about the issue at all.  You can't buy groceries without being harassed.  Voters are fed up with the system and generally want to vote NO on almost any prop for precisely this reason.


The real John McCain.
by Tim Hendricks on Wed Aug 15, 2007 at 03:36:24 PM EST


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