"Obama Worship"

This is a topic that's been bothering me for quite some time now, and I think that writing a diary about it will be the best way to get it off my chest, rather than endlessly debating it in the comments.

As a fairly regular reader of MyDD, and as an Obama supporter, I can't help but notice a recurring theme in the comments about the presidential race. There seems to be a tendency for the supporters of other candidates to sometimes dismiss Obama supporters as so uninformed about or charmed by or enamored with Barack Obama that we clearly overlook the real issues. I've even seen it referred to as "Obama Worship." The gist of this idea is that because Obama is a charismatic and captivating politician (some might say "rock star"), then hi supporters are drawn not to the issues he stands for, but to his star power. I've seen comments that say Obama supporters are blind followers of a media creation. A diary I wrote was referred to as "the Church of Obama." One lovely commenter even went so far as to suggest that I didn't know the meaning of my user name (if anyone was wondering, it comes from the famous sticker that Woody Guthrie would put on his guitar), because one of the tenets of fascism was the blind, rabid support of a single leader.

I understand where this idea comes from, but I can't say that I consider it a sensible argument. Obama has so far enjoyed enormous, excited crowds at his speeches and mostly positive media coverage (as he admitted in "The Audacity of Hope"). I realize that some supporters of other candidates feel victimized (Edwards people because of the haircut thing, Clinton people because of the blogosphere's hostility towards her), and may use this forum to give Obama supporters a taste of what they feel they have to go through. And of course political criticisms of Obama are valid - not everyone's going to agree on every issue.

But what I don't appreciate is the idea that because Obama is a uniquely exciting politican, or because he has a "rock star" quality, then his supporters are shallow or uninformed. The two - charisman and substance - are not mutually exclusive. Liberals always harken back to the days of JFK and RFK - those two were the biggest rock stars politics has ever seen, and we revere them. Many Obama supporters, including myself, are up on the issues and believe that Barack Obama has the best ideas and plans to take America where it needs to go.

Isn't that the point of supporting a candidate? Edwards supporters think he has the right ideas, Clinton supporters think she has the right ideas, Richardson supporters if they're out there think he's got the right ideas. There is a lot of love shown to Edwards on this site, and not once have I seen an Edwards supporter called "blind" or "uninformed" or "dazzled by charisma." This double standard - criticizing Obama support as shallow while ignoring equivalent support of others - seems unfair. Just because what Obama's saying is exciting or dynamic doesn't mean it has no merit. Indeed, we should be happy that his message is reaching a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise care.

Lastly, I'd just like to ask (please!) for a moratorium on the phrase "Obamaniac," which I've been called several times. That also goes for "Hill Bot" or whatever might be used towards Edwards supporters(there really isn't one right now - "Ed Heads?"). I'm not a maniac - I'm just excited to vote for Barack Obama. Isn't that what it's all about?



Display:


In fairness... (3.00 / 2)

Howard Dean's supporters went through a lot of this kind of stuff in the summer/fall of 2003 (Deaniacs, etc) on MyDD, DailyKos, and other popular Dem blogs.  I know...I was one of them.

I figure if folks call us Obama supporters silly names or insults, that's only because they don't have more substative criticisms.

BTW...I liked the bit about your handle.  I wonder how many folks know the origin of mine and its meaning.


by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:01:04 PM EST

I think your handle... (3.00 / 2)

... means different things to different people -- depending on their own frames of reference...


What's the Point?
by Vermonter on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very good! (none / 0)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_%2 8film%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_ef fect

by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Very good! (none / 0)

Wow...deep!


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:01:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

Interesting. I wasn't around then...my sympathies. No, I don't know what your name means - care to enlighten?


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:17:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (2.00 / 1)

Howard Dean and Obama are not even close on positions - and Obama is not a Progressive!!
The only way Howard Dean and Obama can be equated is with the number of supporters. And for Obama that's solely due to hype and the media influence - which Dean didn't have.
The media promotes Obama for a reason - but so far his supporters haven't figured it out.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:11:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow...not sure where to begin. (3.00 / 2)

If you really think that Barack Obama is less progressive than Howard Dean, then you have very little familiarity with Dean's record in Vermont as governor.


by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:17:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow...not sure where to begin. (none / 0)

Obama is clearly more progressive than Dean in an ideological, check-the-boxes sense.  But they are polar opposites in terms of Dean's signature issue, by which I mean aggressive partisanship.  Obama seems to be trying to transcend partisanship altogether - which some people mistake for centrism.

There's a cult of personality quality to both candidacies, but it's clear that they have tapped into completely different strains of support.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 08:44:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow...not sure where to begin. (none / 0)

Anne typically talks first and...well, she talks first, ok?


No Quacks, please.
by noquacks on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 12:50:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

What's the reason? What haven't we figured out? Do tell, o wise one.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:18:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

As I've posted here numerous times - Obama is very appealing to the media and their corporate sponsors.
Walking picket lines with union members, helping  place minimum wage on ballots, advocating a tax on hedge funds and limiting their ability to avoid taxes, guarantee college for all, universal health care plan for all - none of those are appealing to the corporatists.  

Oh heck! just read this and maybe you'll have a better understanding of the media's fascination with Edwards' hair and home.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/ 2007/may/31/john_edwards_and_spectrum


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:43:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

Um wrong Anne, wrong again... Obama is a progressive.  he is very mucha  progressive.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:38:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

Yes - Obama is "Progressive" per Washington and corporate media standards.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (3.00 / 3)

Per most rational people's standards, not Washington or Corporate.  You may think others are MORE progressive, and that is true, but he is a very progressive Senator as evidenced by his policy stances, his legislative votes and anecdotal evidence.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

And for the record, I like Edwards.  If he wins, I'll support him strongly.  Some of his supporters on here are assholes, but then there are Obama supporters on here who I think are worthless scum.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:59:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

Obama is a Progressive!!! (winning by Exclamation)

Blaming the media is like a loosing sports team blaming the officials. Making excuses is for losers!

The media covers the best stories deal with it.
Edwards made the cover of Vogue. What are you complaining about?


by JoeCoaster on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:43:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (3.00 / 1)

Dean, god love him, was supported by the f'in NRA. You're livin in a fantasyland to think he was a perfect progressive.

And its not Obama's fault that there is a global media conspiracy against your candidate's hair.


by faithfull on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

And you think there's nothing the media could cull from Rezko that would mar Obama's character??  ha! It would be much worse than Edwards hair and home - if they so chose.
The media is very selective - and they like corporatist candidates. Obama is a centri$t, like Hillary, raking in millions from the telecoms - and the media likes that!
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 01:17:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

I think your perception of the media is a big room where all the executives get together and smoke cigars and say, "What bad things can we say about Edwards this week?"


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 01:21:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In fairness... (none / 0)

the movie?


by bruh21 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:48:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

No offense, but to compare JFK's resume prior to his presidential run to Obama's 'voter registration' stuff is actually quite amusing.

Sure Obama is attractive, and he may be a great guy. But I really don't believe it will cut when you present voters with a 2.5-year-senator as a serious presidential candidate.

There were lots of charismatic, young and energetic politicians who won elections before. However they did actually have a resume. Ask Bill Clinton. When George Bush dismissed Arkansas as too tiny for presidential experience, at least voters knew he had been a governor for 12 years. Tony Blair had been shadow PM and leader of labour party for quite a few years before he ran.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:03:21 PM EST

Where did the diary... (3.00 / 1)

compare JFK's resume to Obama's?  I don't see that anywhere in the diary.

JFK's resume was more substantial than any of the top 3 candidates on the DEM side.


by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where did the diary... (none / 0)

The two - charisman and substance - are not mutually exclusive. Liberals always harken back to the days of JFK and RFK - those two were the biggest rock stars politics has ever seen, and we revere them. Many Obama supporters, including myself, are up on the issues and believe that Barack Obama has the best ideas and plans to take America where it needs to go.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where did the diary... (none / 0)

JRK and RFK did not just have a 'plan', they actually had a resume. That's the difference.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:12:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But on your larger point... (3.00 / 2)

What in your opinion is Hillary Clinton's most important piece of legislation passed during her tenure in the Senate?


by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:25:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

areyouready does not know (3.00 / 0)

the senator's record, or it is on the website, "trying to figure it out".  ya' heard...


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But on your larger point... (none / 0)

The AUF, of course.


by chicago jeff on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 12:49:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where did the diary... (none / 0)

The writer isn't comparing their resumes, they're saying that Obama has both style and substance and that so did the Kennedy brothers.  Maybe if you go back to 10th grade English, you would realize what the word "context" means.  Additionally, JFK had legislative experience in the House and Senate.  Obama's had state legislative experience, where he actually acheieved quite a bit, and he's had Senate experience as well.  There are correlations.  But more importantly, the presidency is not about "experience" at all, it's about judgement.  And YES, I AM, making a comparison between their resumes.  And frankly, could give a flying f--- what you think.


by dlh77489 on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 06:26:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where did the diary... (none / 0)

well said.


by rapcetera on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 08:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Proves my point... (3.00 / 1)

There's no comparison between Obama's resume and JFK's resume in that statement.  Simply a statement that the diarist believes that Obama has the "best ideas and plans" to take America forward.


by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:19:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where did the diary... (3.00 / 0)

The issue raised in this diary is NOT whether Obama's resume is good enough to be president it is the callousness of Edwards and HRC supporters in dismissing any of us who support Obama as uninformed.

An issue that isn't brought up in this diary that bothers me is how similar this is to the Republican stance that if you aren't backing them you are unpatriotic.

Let me break this down for you. Republicans have framed those of us who are anti-war, anti-patriot act, or indeed anti-republicn as "unpatriotic" because of its negative connotations. Nobody wants to be labeled "unpatriotic," the same can be said for framing Obama supporters as "uninformed." Nobody wants to be considered "uninformed."

I do not know whether this is a conscious decision on the part of people or whether they are just so blind to the possibility that there are candidates other than there choice who are worthy of consideration that they don't see what they are doing. That being said, this diary SHOULD go a long way towards making it apparent and hopefully it will stop and we can have a more relevant debate with less name calling...then again, I doubt it.


I read the body count out of the paper; now it's written all over my face.
by JDF on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 02:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Where did the diary... (none / 0)

Thanks for your insight - I hadn't thought about the unpatriotic/uninformed correlation.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 02:34:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 0)

JFK had 8 years in the US senate and 6 in the us house.  obama can't hold a candle to JFK.


African-american for Hillary 2008
by terrondt on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:14:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Obama worked with and learned from the very people we progressives seek to empower and re-enfranchise.  JKF was alright but in some ways he couldn't hold a candle to Obama.
_____

Seriously, this isn't a pageant.
If you want someone with the most years
in the Senate, get Byrd to run.


by chicago jeff on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 12:59:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

This is a great point that I haven't seen brought up very much - we as progressives are all about helping the downtrodden, correct? And yet we seem to question the experience of someone who spent years doing just that.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Wed Jul 11, 2007 at 01:03:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 2)

Never compared Obama to JFK or RFK - just pointed out that liberals have taken to "charismatic" candidates before, so dismissing support for a charismatic candidate as fluff seems to be historically inaccuarate.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

I think the point is that the charisma wasn't enough.


by bruh21 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Yes, that's my point. You can't sustain the 'charisma' factor if you don't have things to back it up.

Remember, Edwards was also a rock star in 2004. However, he did not deliver in debate with Dick Cheney. Now we have Obama, another rock star. He has the potential to be a 'real deal', but he needs to step up to the plate.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:09:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Like I said, I happen to think that Obama has the best ideas for America. And I disagree that Edwards was a rock star in '04 - I think you're using the term too loosely. Though I agree that his debate with Cheney was terribly disappointing.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 0)

What ideas? My entire impression of Obama is his vague 'hope' and 'change'. In terms of ideas, if you believe white papers equal ideas, Edwards has far more.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:26:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

That's your impression of Obama, you're right. And one that hasn't done any looking into the kind of ideas Obama has. One of the things that I like about Obama is that in addition to some solid policies, he understands what is right about and the intricacies of most issues, and so I trust his judgement. This is why I think he will be a good president.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

As a member of a committe in charge of VA hospital, he couldn't even give a substantial answer to question on VA hospital from the audience in NH debate.

So far, I really don't see much substance.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Thank you!! His answer on the VA hospital question was awful!!! He sounded like he didn't know what he was talking about!! He took a really long time to not answer the question!!


by RDemocrat on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 09:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

On lack of experience (3.00 / 2)

H. Clinton, Years in Office: 8, Elections Won: 2
J. Edwards, Years in Office: 6, Elections Won: 1
B. Obama, Years in Office: 12, Elections Won: 5

Bottom line: Don't criticize Obama for lack of experience if you support Edwards or Hillary because they aren't exactly experience-candidates either.

Qualifiers:

Granted there are other types of experience. Hillary's experience as the wife of Bill Clinton and his campaigns have to count for something. Edwards' experience of a (vice-)presidential campaign and subsequent other activities have to count for something. And Obama too had all sorts of important experiences that have broadened his perspectives on important issues. But none of them have the amount of political/legislative experience comparable Kerry, Lieberman, McCain, Richardson, Biden, Dodd, ... and which one out of Hillary, Obama and Edwards has the most    applicable experience is subjective. What counts more: Hillary's experience with Bill as Prez and her prior attmepts to pass health care reform, Obama's State Senate years, or Edwards experience as Kerry's VP pick, for example?

p.s. I got the experience table from a comment on dailykos here: http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2007/2/ 2/151529/4367/27#c27


by End game on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He won 5 elections? (3.00 / 0)

Are you including his first election where he got every one of his four candidates removed from the ballot?

Please- the guy has proved nothing.


Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (none / 0)

He still won though.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (3.00 / 0)

So did George W. Bush, over Al Gore, at least strictly speaking.

And that proves that he's a leader and he has proven so. Riiiight


Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:35:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (none / 0)

No one said it did, winning the election doesn't make you a leader, serving and coming up with good ideas does.  He has served and has come up with good ideas.  That one of the reasons I and others support him.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (none / 0)

And a comparison to Gore and Bush is a bit much.  Bush's brother most like defrauded the election.  

Obama was courted by the incumbent to run... She was going to run for the US House.  She lost and dropped out and then decided that she wanted her seat back.  Obama had already geared up and started campaigning and wouldn't drop out when her friends tried to convince him to do so.  He fought to hold on using all means necessary... ironically the very thing some critics have said he won't do if the GOP attacks him in the GE... and he won.  Not at all like Bush and Gore.  And as I said, he did very well as a state senator and THAT helps to define him as a leader not simply winning.

You might want to include all the facts before making your comment.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 07:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There were 3 other people running in that race... (3.00 / 0)

So what about them?

Ah, good old fashion Chicago Politics. So old it's "new" again!


Future Majority / Young Philly Politics
by Alex Urevick on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 07:21:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (none / 0)

Those people collected bogus signatures to get on the ballot. They deserved to be kicked off.

It happens all the time in Chicago (I go to school at Northwestern). Last time around, many of the aldermanic districts saw candidates kicked off the ballot for the same reason.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 05:22:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (none / 0)

"Are you including his first election where he got every one of his four candidates removed from the ballot?"

Yes, and that was an important election experience because it showed that he's willing and able to use the system, which is something I wish Gore and Kerry had done more of, and that he won't back down.


by End game on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 07:57:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He won 5 elections? (none / 0)

because they shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. Go do some research before commenting....


by rapcetera on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 08:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On lack of experience (none / 0)

Granted there are other types of experience. Hillary's experience as the wife of Bill Clinton and his campaigns have to count for something.

In the context of her ability to win a general election, I would agree this is a huge plus for her. But others might suggest this is exactly the kind of experience they don't want in a candidate. Hillary spent 8 years in the white house making a lot of enemies (whether it was her own fault or not makes no difference, the enemies are there.) Is Hillary the kind of person that holds a grudge? I don't know but thats what fuels all of these MSM stories about her looking to exact revenge when she becomes president. Is there any truth to that? I dont know.. but lets assume she does hold a grudge against the many enemies of hers in washington. Will she be spending more time as president trying to destroy those people and play politics or will she be working to improve life for the american people?
by soros on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 12:36:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

your facts are wrong... (none / 0)

tony blair had about 2.5 years as minority leader (and shadow PM, as you call it) before he became prime minister...


"I believe he can win. If he runs a campaign anywhere like the terrific campaign he ran to get the nomination, he'll win handily." - Ed Rendell
by bored now on Thu Jul 12, 2007 at 10:38:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 3)

Right, Obama's problem is that he is simply too gifted with "soft" qualities like charisma and rhetorical flash. This allows those that oppose Obama for other (possibly legitimate) reasons to take convenient shots at him by saying that's ALL he's made of---all style no substance---despite the logical fallacy involved. To me, it's nothing more than attempt to construct a narrative that's much easier to stick than sincere appraisals of policy.

This isn't to say that there are not plenty of people that support Obama for superficial reasons. Nor is it to say that all of his supporters are "informed."

I'd venture to say that most people on this site, though, surpass the threshold for what could be objectively  called "informed." Thus, to the extent we support different candidates, it's because we have simply come to different informed conclusions about who the next president should be.

After that, we can still argue, but we still owe a certain modicum of respect to each other. I haven't always been the best on this score, but I resolve to do better.


by bode78 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:14:53 PM EST

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

I just don't see it.  I haven't been impressed by any of his debate performances.  True, I haven't paid $25 to see him (and won't be $1000 when he comes to my town in a few days), but I wasn't all that impressed by the 2004 convention speech either.  Buncha hype geared toward the under 25 crowd that has only lived through the Bush years.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Tue Jul 10, 2007 at 09:28:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

shake up 'empty' impression (none / 0)

If he wants to shake up the 'emptiness' impression and thin resume, he has to perform.

I don't see the evidence in the past three debates in which he stepped up to the plate


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:15:45 PM EST

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (none / 0)

ARE YOU READY  must be worried about Obama OR HE WOULD NOT CONTINUALLY GO ON THESE DIARIES TO RANT AGAINST oBAMA.

iF HIS CANDIDATE IS SO FAR AHEAD, THEN i DON'T UNDERSATAND WHY HE/SHE WASTES their time on diaries about Obama?


by BDM on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:47:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

areyouready is a troll (none / 0)

this individual was former kostner, masaoda, carolinehanz.  this individual writes, no, post clipping of articles with non-sensical statements and call it a diary.  this individual's prime purpose is to go through threads and bring Obama down, even though most of her posts do not make any sense.  this person was autobanned on DKos, for much of the reason people have been complaining about it.  lastly, this person does not bring anything further to the table for conversation.  eventually, this person will be banned "again" and will probably comeback as another lunatic poster.  and this board is very ready for areyouready to be deactivated.


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (3.00 / 3)

The Poll after SC disagrees with you, placing him in first for the debate.  He did very well in the last debate too, Politico had him a HAIR under Hillary (essentially tied) and most other accounts I read had him in second.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:35:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (3.00 / 0)

Are you really that much of a rating trolls, Truthteller2007?  Your ratings abuse is ridiculous... but at least have the stones to actually defend your abuse.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

truthteller (3.00 / 0)

is another fanatic.  i am not sure who this individual supports, looks like edwards, but has nothing nice to write about Clinton or Obama, from what I have read.  and if you troll rate it, it will try to troll rate you back, into trollrate hell.  yes, that is what it is about.  and yes, it is another troll.


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: truthteller (3.00 / 1)

Make sure to report the ratings abuse.  That is against the site TOS.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (3.00 / 0)

In the last debate, per audience pre and post polling - Edwards doubled his support - while both Obama and Hillary lost support SIGNIFICANTLY.
This polling was posted on Tavis Smiley's PBS site - but was removed after a few hours - because it wasn't in sync with the media's hype for the top 2 candidates.
Later on Meet the Press - Smiley didn't even mention Edwards.
Smiley and PBS actions aren't about MY candidate - it's about OUR most electable candidate!
Following the media is following the money - and will render another corporatist president. The same corporatists who helped elect Bush are now supporting Hillary and Obama.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:56:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (none / 0)

Wow... just wow... I'm done with this.  Logic and rationality have left the building; quit playign the martyr and stop with the conspiracy theory.  Its just ridiculous.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:22:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (none / 0)

When you call Tavis Smiley a corporatist, you have hit a new low.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:23:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (3.00 / 0)

You are a pathetic coward and a loser. You went to my Diary and troll rated every single comment there. You are nothing more than a troll and a trashy human being. There is nothing that you can post that will will add any value to this or any other Blog. You are a disgrace. I cannot wait till you are banned.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: shake up 'empty' impression (none / 0)

You are a moron. Evidence is not found in debates, evidence is found in his history in public service and before. So try looking there, is my suggestion.


by alipi on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 07:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

Can we please limit diaries to substantive discussions of policy, please?  This rant is frankly a waste of virtual space.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:17:01 PM EST

You mean like every other day at MyDD? (none / 0)

Pretty much...same diaries, different day.  Not much variety around here these days.


by rashomon on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You mean like every other day at MyDD? (none / 0)

OT: I like your ID name.


by bruh21 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:56:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Policy is boring.


by BobbyNYC on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:01:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

I guess it is for those who think politics should be a talent show or a celebrity gossip talk show.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 0)

No, why don't we just just be retarded and post POLL RESULTS all day long?

Don't talk to us about policy. Clinton has NO POLICY. Her Policy is

"I'm in it and I'm in it to win"


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:23:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

Politics should be all of the above. That doesn't mean I agree with the media's fascination with Obama in a bathing suit or the Lewinski scandal or whatever... but it's not enough to have ideas and it's not enough to be good on the issues. A successful politician needs to win hearts and minds to make change and I think that's what a lot of people see in Obama.


by BobbyNYC on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:49:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

Obama can't even get Lieberman to hold hearings on the slow recovery for Katrina victims!!! Jeeeez!
Any politician can SAY "elect me" cause I can work across the aisle and "bring Congress together"! But when Obama can't even bring his own mentor "together" for Katrina victims...
And yet - at rallies, Obama will rail about Katrina - but is silent on Lieberman.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:02:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Yikes. Stung with my first ever 1.0 rating from Truthteller. What an ass. Back to the discussion, Obama clearly has an ability to make liberalism less scary for moderates and conservatives. I think that's been reflected by polls and the public reaction to his speeches. I'm not big on anything that makes Leiberman feel more important than he is. He's irrelevant in 18 mo's when the Dems expand their majority.


by BobbyNYC on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:23:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Make sure you report it... only by doing so can we rid MyDD of people like that.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:23:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

I hear there are still poor people in America!!! Jeeez is Edwards worthless or what?! </snark>

If you think Obama (or any Democrat) has any influence with Lieberman you're living in a anti-Obama dream world. Lieberman is campaigning for the VP spot on the Republican ticket.  


by JoeCoaster on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:34:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Funny that the ONLY people who call Lieberman Obama's mentor are those who don't support him in the Primaries.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 07:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 3)

This seems to be the wrong site for "substantive discussions of policy". I make no apologizes for this diary - it doesn't deal with policy, but it deals with the reality of what coming to this site and reading it is like. If we're ever going to talk policy, we have to work these things out first. And you say you want to talk policy - walk the walk, my friend.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 2)

That's rich coming from you.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:33:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (1.50 / 2)

You are a pathetic coward and a loser. You went to my Diary and troll rated every single comment there. You are nothing more than a troll and a trashy human being. There is nothing that you can post that will will add any value to this or any other Blog. You are a disgrace. I cannot wait till you are banned.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

this individual, is a troll, and will eventually be deactivated.  


"I want my voice to be read"
by icebergslim on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:40:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

good read:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horsera ceblog/2007/07/obama_promise_and_peril.h tml


by rapcetera on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:31:47 PM EST

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

A Republicans opinion on Obama is a good read to you?


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:35:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

It's quite possible to be cold-blooded as an observer from the other side.


by jforshaw on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:51:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

so what if it's a republican? I thought it was a good read. I'm not one of those people who think republican's can't possibly have anything positive or substantial to say. The write-up has some good points.


by rapcetera on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 08:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

I have gone to great lengths to point out what I see as Obama's weaknesses.  I have said over and over again that I do think he is soft, and prone to empty rheteric.  I think he would get chewed up and spit out by the Republicans in the general.  

But none of that has anything to do with Obama worship or Obamamaniacs.  People support who they want to support, for whatever reasons.

But I do think there are a group of people who support Obama who are over the top. They can't take criticism of him and they can't bring themselves to express any thing remotely negative about him.  When anything they view as negative is posted they attack ( or alternately beg for people to stop posting such things).  They are prone to attacking other candidates, often using Republican talking points.  In short these people behave like naive, bratty cheerleaders for Obama.

When these people post on Obama they sound like teenage girls writing about the guy they have a crush on.  When they post on other candidates they sound like that teenage girl running down the girl her crush is currently dating.

Lastly, many of these type of Obama supporters I speak of have openly called for banning non Obama supporters and routinely give bad ratings to perfectly fine posts that they just happen not to like.  That is childish nonsense.


by dpANDREWS on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:47:17 PM EST

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 0)

And the Clinton people are diarists that donot do any of the things you suggest.

Look Andrews you are just as biased as anybody about your candidate as they are to their candidate.. However, most people on MYDD donot see your candidate the way you do. Are you trying to convert us to be Hillary supporter's?


by BDM on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:51:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course not (none / 0)

I don't expect to find too many Hillary supporters here.  But I also don't expect to find GOP attacks lines either.  

Also, I think I am a tad bit more objective.  I don't have a dog in the fight, so while I have a candidate I prefer, I have said all along that I think the winner of the Democratic nomination has an excellent shot to win, no matter who it is (although I have pointed out one match up that I think is troublesome if it came to pass).  I have posted critcisms of all the candidates.


by dpANDREWS on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 02:55:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course not (none / 0)

The match-up that I think is troubling to me is Guliani vs Clinton. I think Guliani win's!!


by BDM on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:03:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course not (none / 0)

Yes - many will vote for Giuliani rather than Hillary.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:04:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually, I'd say Obama/Guiliani (3.00 / 0)

Guiliani wins because the north east will go with the north easterner.  So, you know, you don't like Hillary, and maybe Edwards, whatever, so you're always going to see then losing to Guiliani, but I could pose the same argument about any of the candidates.


by bookgrl on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:28:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course not (none / 0)

Since when... Most posts on 2008 I have read of yours were pro-hillary and critical of Obama and Edwards.  I don't EVER remember a negative Hillary post made by you.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Have been a few (none / 0)

I was critical of her Selma speech.

I was very critical of her vote against the latest round of funding for Iraq.  I think that will be a sledgehammer the GOP will use on her in the general.

I have expressed dismay over how the campaign ever let it circulate that they were somehow not as interested in Iowa as others, or not in it to win.

I have also had good things to say about Obama and Edwards.  

I think Obama is a very compelling story and very charismatic.  He is bringing people into politics the way Dean did.  He is also a great fundraiser.

As for Edwards I have applauded his tougher campaign style this time around.


by dpANDREWS on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:24:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Have been a few (3.00 / 0)

Uh - do you know anything about Edwards positions?  


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Big Picture (none / 0)

I don't see huge differences between any of the top Democrats when it comes to the issues, especially the important ones.  The country would be way better off with any of them as President vs. a Republican.

Thats why I support the candidate who I think has the best chance to win the general, and the best ability to govern after a victory in Nov. 08.


by dpANDREWS on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:45:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree, few differences. (none / 0)


by bookgrl on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:28:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Have been a few (3.00 / 1)

I have seen very few, but then I will admit I could have missed them.  I will have to take your word for it, since I don't feel like looking it up.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 05:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Have been a few (none / 0)

If you think Truthtellers abuse is unacceptable, please make sure to uprate his victims.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 06:25:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

"When these people post on Obama they sound like teenage girls writing about a guy they have a crush on." This is what I mean. This exact statement could be easily made about Edwards, given the number of Edwards diaries per day, but this stigma of "hero worship" doesn't seem to apply to him. I'm just saying, level the playing field a little bit.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:26:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Or Hillary as well.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:28:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

I'm just curious how many times you or Rob or George have been critical of Hillary?  I can't recall any critical posts.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

This country is facing the greatest challenges it has ever known and we, those of us with the most deeply held convictions, still bicker about the most petty inane things.

Call me and mine what you like. Senator Obama represents the hope of most Americans for a better conversation (his numbers prove that, and unless you are a really cynical person, you can not relly believe that 258,000 diverse Americans are all/mostly enamered by the charisma of this one man). I am no policy wonk, but I know that I want someone who understands his role as described (implicitly and explicitly) in the Constitution of the United States. Someone with gravitas who will reach for and grasp the full dynamic of the office and make sound decisions for ALL Americans.

Not only should we be excited that so many people are part of this historic movement we should celebrate the fact that Senator Obama is willing to go through this process. I, personally am proud to be called an "Obamaniac". In fact I would like to invite all like-minded Obama supporters to join us in San Diego in calling for a "Barack Obama Visibility Birthyday Bash" on Aug. 4 to celebrate the Senator's birthday, help the 3Q numbers by buying/wearing Obama shirts and pins and reall showing the country/world what 258,000 supporters look like.


by gcee on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:06:26 PM EST

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 0)

>>>>Not only should we be excited that so many people are part of this historic movement we should celebrate the fact that Senator Obama is willing to go through this process.

What process??  When there are articles and TV panelists questioning Obama's character 24/7 over Rezko and exposing his pro-war votes - you may have a point.
Until then - it's a campaign based on "hope" and thrills. And yes - it's possible for millions to be deceived as they were in 2000 and 2004. We call them uninformed.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 0)

"We call them uninformed."

Woo hoo! Elitism!


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 04:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (3.00 / 1)

There's an interesting article in the LA Times this morning about an brain researcher who has been consulting with the Dem Party about the role of emotion in politics.  

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ nation/la-na-guru9jul09,0,868439.story?t rack=mostviewed-storylevel

Good diary, Woody, but what goes on in these pages has nothing to do with real criticism.  Unfortunately, daily, this place becomes more and more like Donald Segretti's Playhouse.


by DD2 on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:06:53 PM EST

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

Interesting article, thanks.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Obama Worship" (none / 0)

I'm seeing Westen speak in New York on Friday -- looking forward.


by horizonr on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:54:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well said... (3.00 / 2)

Supporters of Barack Obama are no more partisan than supporters of any other candidate.

And discussing the way "supporters" of any candidate behave is really empty rhetoric. To make the case that the most vocal commenters in the blogosphere for Candidate X or Y (no gender pun intended) actually represent a kind of monolithic personality type is absurd.

But, if you must reduce my support for my chosen candidate with a schoolyard taunt, I highly prefer Obamatons to Obamaniacs.


What's the Point?
by Vermonter on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 03:10:56 PM EST

Re: Well said... (none / 0)

Don't you think Obamaniacs has a nice Dean-tribute ring to it?  And it has more of a chaotic free-thinker feel to it than Obamaton, surely.  I am proudly an Obamaniac if that's the worst they can throw at us, so be it.  Are we going to become the Obamajority?  Think so.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jul 09, 2007 at 07:03:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]