Edwards Campaign Moves

Edwards was at a United Steelworkers of America forum yesterday talking about "The Blue Green Alliance", and brings two key leaders of the United Food and Commercial Workers union's WakeUpWalMart.com onto his campaign. The Edwards addition of Paul Blank and Chris Kofinis, which seems pretty inside baseball, got pretty wide coverage outside political junkie blogs like MyDD. Partly, it's been spin as Joe Trippi taking a larger part in the campaign, but what it really seems to be is as clear a sign as possible that Edwards is making further in-roads into the labor camp:

Paul Blank and Chris Kofinis, leaders of the labor-backed anti-Wal-Mart effort "Wake Up Wal-Mart," were expected to join the Edwards campaign as early as next week. Blank would take over day-to-day campaign operations, while Kofinis would serve as communications director.
Ron Galloway, who was once working against Blank and Kofinis, over the issue of Wal-Mart, says this is going to help the Edwards campaign, as does the WSJ, grudgingly. I doubt very much this is a sign of demotion for Bonior; instead it's a sign of the next stage of the campaign- organizational endorsements.

Bonior moves into the role as public spokesman for the campaign, and travels extensively with Edwards-- that's actually a signal of gaining more power.

The proclamations that Edwards campaign is fading come a bit premature. Though Edwards is not raising $28-32M like Clinton and Obama, he is running a campaign that's targeted activists in the progressive movement, both in labor and in language that speaks to the partisan democratic netroots. Clinton's running the establishment campaign based on inevitability and co-opting anything that gets traction by the others; Obama is running a non-partisan and candidate-centric movement campaign that has engaged many youth and attracted new donors. It becomes clearer with each week that there is a large gap that is both partisan and new progressive, which Obama and Clinton fail to attract. It's also a division of those whom are basically catering to the corporate donor class for their large numbers raised, and a failure to not speak to Democrats who want to re-establish equality in the tax structure.

Gore is whom many hope would fill the void of having a candidate whom is both partisan and progressive, but if we are in October and Gore's still not in the race, Edwards is going to be in position to rise with momentum going into the primary and caucus period.



Display:


Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 5)

I'm off to Oregon coast for about 10 days; see you political animals when I return.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:43:41 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 8)

Jerome I'll go ahead and put the first comment in and save everyone the trouble.

  1. why are you an edwards shill?

  2. why do you hate obama?

  3. why are you pro-hillary?

There I saved us all the trouble of the comment flame war!

Have fun in Oregon.
www.adamconner7.com
by Adam Conner on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:48:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (1.00 / 1)

This is absurd. Why do you attack Jerome just because you don't like what he said?

Where is your 'hope'? Obama's 'new politics' is becoming a laughing stock with guys like you roaming around.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:53:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Oh puh-lease.  Jerome is a big boy and can take care of himself.   If he's going to post on this site, the substance of his posts are subject to criticism.  It isn't a "personal attack," but an attack on the substance of the post and the pattern of posts on this site.  


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 3)

sarcasm is dead. long live irony.

all of you people are crazy. 08 has made you all crazy. and by crazy I mean humorless.


by clockwerks on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:04:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 3)

Read the comment again -- the poster is making a joke by arguing that Jerome is shilling for multiple candidates at the same time.  That's why they say they've taken care of the whole flame war with their post.

Yikes, everyone around here needs to calm down a little bit...  


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:07:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Do you ever post anything that isn't an attack on another Democratic candidate?  Because it sure seems like that's your only purpose.


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Geez,

You Hillary supporters are something else. I can't believe you didn't get that joke.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

why is it that everytime he says something positive for one candidate or another-he's a shill for that candidate. I mean- seriously- a few weeks ago people were asking whether he was on Hillary's pay roll. At one point some Edwards or Clinton supporter asked whether he was shilling for Obama. I think what this really reflects is the inability of those making that claim to be remotely objective about the various strategies being used, and that sort of lack of objectivity is what degrading this site among other things.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (1.00 / 0)

I agree with you. Many of these notorious whiners are Obamaniacs.

It really amusing for me to comprehend his 'hope', 'new kind of politics' while dealing with his supporters like this daily on this site.

LOL.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:00:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Honestly I don't confuse any of the candidates for what I see on this blog. I support Edwards but I regularly see people overstate their case against other candidates who aren't Edwards too. I think this diary is right because it makes sense that all those undecideds , which make up the bulk of the voters still, are going to go somewhere, and Edwards is tauting a traditionally Democratic message. I mean his basic point if people weren't so busy whining isn't all that earth shattering- all he said is don't count Edwards out. Yet, some people here are threatened by the idea that he may not be counted out.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:08:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (1.00 / 0)

No. I don't support Jerome's analysis. He obviously has his own agenda. However, he can write whatever he likes. It's amusing to watch all those Obamaniacs demand Hillary supporters not to speak out on this blog. LOL.

I don't believe Edwards will get the nod, but I also don't believe he's dead in the water as many suggested.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:15:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Actually unlike your post Jerome backs up his shit, so  I m going to go with that.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:24:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

You sound Like Coulter talking to Elizabeth Edwards the other night.  Criticizing comments that don't actually create any kind of a useful dialogue is not trying to prevent hillary supporters from speeking.  It's simply calling people like you out for doing nothing but attacking other candidates.

Incidentally, I say this as an Obama supporter who...GASP...thinks John Edwards is great and who will gladly work to elect Hillary if she wins the nomination.  

I REALLY really wish you'd spend some time explaining what's so great about Hillary instead of slamming everyone else.  If you like her so much, I would think you'd have a ton to say about why she's the BEST rather than ONLY option.  


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:26:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

please ...  I love how some people bash the Obama supporters .. but HRC supporters are just as bad


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:27:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

I'm guessing this is not an earnest commentary, for those who aren't picking up the snark.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

YEs sorry to say I was one of the snark challenged.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:09:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah, Edwards is toast! (3.00 / 1)

I know he is, cause people on My DD keep saying so.

Good post, Jerome. I have to grudingly admit that you're pretty damn astute.


by david mizner on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:23:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The most important (3.00 / 2)

point of this might get lost:

It's also a division of those whom are basically catering to the corporate donor class for their large numbers raised, and a failure to not speak to Democrats who want to re-establish equality in the tax structure.

Edwards recently came out for raising taxes on hedge fund manages and partners--will Clinton and/or Obama join him?

We already know that Obama is going to leave Bush's tax cuts for the rich in place for 2 years.

Will Obama and Clinton be able to blur their important policies differences with the most progressive candidate?

Time will tell.


by david mizner on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:04:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The most important (3.00 / 1)

Hillary and Obama don't need to. Their "progressive" supporters will just create smackdown videos of Edwards, the Progressive candidate.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (1.00 / 0)

I just don't see how you get to the conclusion that Edwards will gain momentum and rize at the poll if Gore doesn't run....Maybe if Gore endorses him, but i seriously don't think Edwards will gain any more traction in october in compare to now. Edwards has been trending down for the past month or so, and the fact that he raised less then $10 has really confirm the very fact that he's falling at the polls. His lead in Iowa is declining, not picking up...Edwards home state of North Carolina is now in play....While Hillary and Barack are confortably ahead in their home state,Edwards csn't say the same. Edwards appeal is not broad enought...His base seems to be old,white men...I just don't see how in the world he will be able to expand that. Obama and Hillary are attracting the hip hop young voters...Most of them don't even know who Edwards is....Edwards base also has a huge problem with diversity...This is why he will not win the south in the democratic primary....The black votes is too large for Edwards to win states like S.C,GA,TN,VA....Edwards does better on states that are all-white,but will do poorly in states that are more diverse.
by JaeHood on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:51:07 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Wow....

this post was just so inaccurate.

Yes, Edwards is losing his lead in several states, and is probably trending down.

But his constituency is "old white men", I'm not even 30!

And the "hip hop young voters"... yeah, let's wait until they vote to call them voters.

Edwards "will not win the south" because he "has a huge problem with diversity".  That is, if we don't remember what happened in 2004 in South Carolina...

The Tavis debate last week seemed to indicate to me that Edwards can do just fine with the African-American population in the south.  Maybe not as well as Obama or Clinton, but he'll hold his own.

-Zen Blade


by Zen Blade on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

But if Edwards wins Iowa, everything changes overnight.


by greenvtster on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Rupert Murdoch is funding Hillary's campaign and going along with the Obama rockstar distraction. Here are SOME of Murdoch's holdings...

Fox News Broadcasting Company
KTTV - Los Angeles
WFLD - Chicago
WTXF - Philadelphia
WFXT - Boston
WTTG - Washington D.C
KDFW - Dallas
WJBK - Detroit
WAGA - Atlanta
KRIV - Houston
WJW - Cleveland
WTVT - Tampa
KSAZ - Phoenix
KDVR - Denver
KTVI - St Louis
WITI - Milwaukee
WOFL - Orlando
WOGX - Ocala
WDAF - Kansas City
KSTU - Salt Lake City
WHBQ - Memphis
WGHP - Greensboro
WBRC - Birmingham
WPR - Chicago
KTBC - Austin


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

is your name really annefrank?  Because if you're supposed to be taking the spirit of the person whose name you're using, you're not doing a great job of it so far by focusing your energies on bashing other candidates.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm.... (none / 0)

I'm wondering if Dans AC is working. All that heat affects the brain....


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:56:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm.... (none / 0)

Zow!  Ping!  Got me there.  Wow, nailed me!


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm.... (none / 0)

ROFL - cheers!


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 06:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Agreed, agreed, agreed!  I don't see this wave of voters moving to Edwards.  And if wouldn't be boasting about the fact that Trippi is going to play a larger role in your campaign & are you're hiring Blank.


by stuckinsf on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:16:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

How do you claim there's a problem with diversity in Edwards' base?


Help build a stronger and more progressive Democratic Party from the grassroots on up
by Peter from WI on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

He was probably referring to the crosstabs in polling data that show Edwards does poor amongst minority voters in the primary matchups.

I don't think he was saying that the Edwards campaign has created any problems for itself by any of its own actions, but rather that it hasn't succeeded in attracting minority support.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:12:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go Edwards, Boo Obama and Hillary!!! (1.00 / 0)

Ignore any polls that say otherwise, Edwards is going to rise, trust Jerome!!!  If it takes inventing new phrases like "new progressive," or ignoring realities that plenty of partisans and progressives, new and old, support Obama or Hillary, well, then so be it!  Reality must conform to our wishes, not vice versa.  Go MyDD go!


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:52:02 AM EST

Edwards is the Progressive candidate! (none / 0)

Progressives aren't supporting Hillary and Obama!  
Union busting and coal indu$try bills aren't Progressive.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:03:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Well, guess what?  Hillary is leading in the polls.  I wish it weren't so, but I think every time we go out there and say, "Unless a Dem candidate does X, then they won't win," ignores reality.  

Whether we like it or not, Hillary is leading in many polls and her organization is impressive.  Yes, she's an establishment candidate, but the people who came out for Bill and Hillary this past week weren't a fiction.

And Obama, "Hillary-lite?"  That is such a fictional blogosphere meme I don't even know where to begin.  If anything, he's been out there fighting against Hillary as a "candidate of the past" more than anything.  I agree he's not throwing the red meat as much as you or I might like, but I think that's a reflection of his true, contemplative self.  I don't think he's trying to be "Hillary lite."  

He raised $32 million, has 250,000 donors, and is second in the polls to Hillary, so he can't be doing everything wrong.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:56:14 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

she's leading by what? i mean if you are going to make that assertion it would be nice to know that state by state she hasn't run away but instead is stuck in the 30s- so yeah if 30 to 40 percent is meant to indicate inevitable, you are on the wrong site peddling that kool aid.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Peddling Kool Aid.  Like saying Edwards will gain momentum with no factual evidence to back it up?  

Believe you me, I'm no Hillary supporter.  But in a field of 8, 30-40s, with a second place Obama in the 20s, is pretty strong.  Two candidates taking over 50 percent?

State by state...in most places she's still leading.  Not what I want to be the case, but a fact.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:15:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 3)

Actually all Jerome said was that Edwards strategy and the fact he did rake in some money coupled with the reality that no one has sealed the deal means he shouldn't be counted it out. That Edwards is courting the right people in teh Democratic circles is leaving a strategic hole. I don't fine that remarkable or that supportive of Edwards. It's simply true according to strategies being run. Not sure why that threatens you so much sense its not claiming Edwards will win. Simply that his strategies gives him a shot to win.

My genrally point about the polls is that they are kind of useless as a guide because there is no clear winner. HRC has a plurality, and its not clear by Jan she will seal the deal. Most people are undecided. It's not clear where those people are going to go. Indeed, more people as I remember are undecided than support a particular cnadidate in terms of hardcore support. But hey, I guess keeping an open mind about strategies and saying it's not yet time to count a candidate out especially considering historical understandings of primary races at this point- could indeed be considered drinkig cool aid. But that cool aid is based on facts, even if you don't want to admit they are.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:22:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Good post and very fair points.  


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:27:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Actually, Jerome said more than that.  He said, "Edwards is going to be in position to rise with momentum going into the primary and caucus period."

That's not a fact, that's a hope.  If he said Edwards shouldn't be counted out and left it at that, it's one thing.  But he took it farther, as many do here, by proclaiming his hope to be reality.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:33:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 0)

it was a statement of strategic positioning. parsing and cutting that phrase out of context of what jerome wrote only confirms that you are adding your own baggage to what he said. reading the entire post in context he's simply deflecting all the edwards is over meme that's been thrown about.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:44:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Are there such things as incontrovertible facts when you're talking about a primary race that's 7 months from the outcome?  

A poll is not a fact, people, it's a prediction.  So is the 5-day weather forecast.  And if 5-day weather forecasts were accurate, you'd only get one every 5 days.  So what does that say about polls?


by cesar on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Well if it is really not your preference speaking of it these inevitable terms doesn't help the alternatives. And I really don't think her drawing crowds in Iowa (what was the big one mentioned yesterday--over a thousand? wow, I guess it must have really seemed like a big crowd since they originally only bought 250 hot dogs. I really think her having to drag Bill out there to get attention is telling. Hillary is only the inevitable candidate if those other candidates and their supporters cede the nomination to her.


by jazzyjay on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No one should cede (none / 0)

No one is speaking in inevitable terms.  I'm highlighting a point.

My point is this: there seems to be a hesitancy to take stock of reality as it stands now.  Without acknowledging facts, no one, Obama, nor Edwards, has a shot.  It's the amount of wishful thinking where statements that explain "Why Edwards WILL win" or "Obama will lose" etc etc all ignore the facts of whee we are today.

Nothing is inevitable.  If I were an Edwards supporter (I am not), I would say this:  Edwards' appeal among the blogosphere has yet to translate widely across the nation, therefore we have to acknowledge that reality and start doing some things differently to fix it.  

But I'm wary of the degree to which people in the blogosphere can fool themselves.  I remember reading post after post as to why the polls showing Bush leading Kerry were wrong.  It was just trying to bend reality to our hopes, not vice versa.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Respectfully first, you don't know what I will say.  I had no intention of calling Obama the "people's candidate."  I don't know what it qualifies to be a "people's candidate," and frankly, I'm not really sure what it means.  

What I think is Obama, in his true nature, is a contemplative, cerebral guy.  I don't think he's out there screaming like Edwards or Hillary because it's not in his nature.   I don't think Obama is presenting himself as a rock star either - he's getting huge crowds, but many are surprised to find out how contemplative and un-fiery he is.  

The point I'm trying to make isn't pro-Obama or anti-Edwards or anything.  It's pro-reality.  I think it's one thing to support your candidate, it's another to make up an alternate reality.

You say something doesn't appeal to you after the Bush years.  But, as the old saying in marketing goes, don't think just because you think a certain way, everyone else thinks that way too.

You are making these statements about what Democrats are looking for, and yet Obama consistently polls second after Hillary, and has raised the most money from the most people - in the 2Q, I might add, when the blogosphere was hammering his "fading campaign."

I'm not sure where Obama talks about compromise even if it's not the interests of "we the people," but if you can give me tangible examples, that's fine.  He's certainly running as a change candidate, but he's hardly non-partisan (just pay attention to his record or the number of fights he's had with Republicans).

Again, you are free to support whomever you like.  But making these sweeping statements that one candidate is a "people's candidate" and telling us what "Democrats are looking for," when factual evidence contradicts you.  What you're really talking about is what YOU'RE looking for.  


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Again, please cite evidence for this statement:  "What I am hearing from Obama is compromise for compromise sake in order to get something done in congress."

That might be what you're hearing.  It's not what I'm hearing. I've listened to him carefully.  I've reviewed his positions and records.  I've read his books.  In no place do I get that message.  

But I could be wrong.  If you really believe that is the message he is delivering, please cite evidence.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

He's citing the general rhectoric of the campaign. Your point seems to be that although Obama is talking consensus, he really doesn't mean it like that. That in order to really get him, people need to do as you have done.

My response to that is that it's exactly that reality that's going to be a problem. People do think that he's talking like a "new democrat" which doesn't equal being partisan. I say that Obama is a close number two for me because I believe his heart is in the right place, but the impact of his consensus rhectoric is that it will lead everyone to hear what they want to hear. The danger of that is that it allows the GOP to fill the void of defining what it means. People can have the best of intentions and through no fault of their own still end up with a bad result. That's the impact of his campaign strategic rhectoric- he won't have a mandate for change- he will have one for consensus.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

I actually think he's interesting precisely b/c his policy proposals are progressive, but the way he sells them appeals to self-identifying moderates.  Since I'm most concerned with the substance of a candidates views, the fact that Obama seems best able to create consensus around those positions is attractive to me.  

Really, I think the analogy to Reagan is a particularly good one.  Reagan, as we all know, was a crazy far-right nut job.  Yet he won electoral landslides b/c LOTS of working class people bought into his narrative.  I think Obama can do the same thing, in the sense that he can get people who are less progressive to still support a progressive policy platform.  

If the price for those kind of results is less red meat in Obama's speaches, I'm perfectly fine with that.  


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:20:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 2)

Reagan didn't run as the consensus candidate. He ran as a conservative who bashed the crazy Democrats and laughing at us as he did it.

You are talking about something different it seems to me. The reason why Edwards interests me is that people perceive of him as moderate (as Big Tent Democrat explains its maybe the accent) but he's really more progressive.

If you want real change, that's the flip. The flip is not for the candidate to say I am a moderate, I am a moderate, etc. but govern liberal. It's to have a candidate be unapologetic in his positions and have people come to view that as moderate. That's what Reagan did. That's what Obama fails to do. That's the hope that Edwards represents to me because its a paradigmatic shifting of how we define things.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Agree to disagree I suppose.  Obama DOES focus on consensus, but show me an example of where he has ever advocated for sacrificing progressive principles?  I don't think he has.  All he's doing, which I agree Edwards also does pretty well, is reframing progressive messages in a way that they appeal to a broader segment of the population...just like Reagan did.

Now, I'm not saying the Reagan analogy is perfect -- it's certainly not.  NOR, for what it's worth, am I saying that Edwards isn't also capable of selling progressive ideas effectively; I think he is -- that's why he got my vote in the '04 primaries.  I just think that Obama's candidacy represents a unique opportunity to really change Democratic brand into one that can win not only an electoral majority but an overwhelming majority.  


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:08:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

We will have to disagree because I dont think your analysis appreciates what Reagan actually did. He didn't change his language. He changed the country. It was ready for a change, but that's in a nutshell the difference between the two approaches. I just think Edwards appreciate where the country is a little better.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

I think Obama and Edwards are very close on the issues.  But in terms of whose message is resonating among the electorate - you'd have a hard time finding much evidence that Edwards' is more than Obama's.  Polls, money, volunteers, etc. all suggest otherwise.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

this diary isn't about right now- the point is who is strategically placing themselves in position over the course of the primary season. as history has taught us, who we think is hot right now- can change with media perception of a scream.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Obviously time will tell I suppose.  I would note, however, that Reagan certainly proved to be a more able salesman for conservatism than anyone before or since -- with his landslide re-election in '84 serving as the proof.  To win that big, you obviously are succeeding in attracting voters with whom you have substantial policy differences.  

We could debate HOW Reagan accomplished that, till we're blue in the face, but obviously he DID accomplish it.  I view Obama as a similar candidate for the progressive left, which I guess you disagree with.  Fair enough.    


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:39:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

Let me just say its been nice talking to you. So many people on here get on my nerves because they take these conversations and pretend any give and take isn't possible. It ends up being about them spinning rather than honest differences of opinion. That more than anything needs to return to this site.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

I feel the same way and also enjoyed the discussion.  Hopefully we'll see an uptick in civility around here once folks start remembering all our candidates make much better choices than the nutjobs on the right.  


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has opposed Progressive values (none / 0)

>>>>Obama DOES focus on consensus, but show me an example of where he has ever advocated for sacrificing progressive principles?

Obama crossed the aisle and voted with Repubs to confirm 3 extremist judicial nominees!  And his coal bill that benefitted the coal indu$try was definitely NOT Progressive. In fact, when caught - Obama had to be TOLD the bill was BAD.
John Edwards wouldn't need to be told those 2 issues are not Progressive.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama has opposed Progressive values (none / 0)

I COULD play tit for tat and link to all of Edwards decidedly pro-business votes when he was in the Senate, but the truth is that I believe him when he says he's evolved into a true progressive -- so I'm not going to do that.  What I will note, however, is that OVERALL Obama is the most liberal democrat to run a viable campaign for the Democratic nomination in a LONG time.  You'll always be able to find voters you disagree with for any candidate, if you look hard enough, but that really doesn't accomplish anything.

As to your specific examples, Obama voted to Filibuster Alito -- so you're simply wrong about that.  And he's representing his state with the coal liquification vote.  Not sure what you'd expect a Senator from Illinois to do on that particular issue.    


by HSTruman on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:23:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

>>>Whether we like it or not, Hillary is leading in many polls

....while the corporate media is silent about her relationship with Mark Penn and InfoUSA.

>>>>He raised $32 million, has 250,000 donors, and is second in the polls to Hillary, so he can't be doing everything wrong.

Jeeeez!  who knew a 2 year senator cast as a rockstar candidate with pole dancing videos would garner lots of supporters??  The corporate media, PR and marketing strategists!!
Jeeeez! it's so obvious!


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Jeeze who cast him as a rock star? Is he being paid to act like one? But more importantly who is casting and paying those thousands of people who keep showing up at his events and web sites and donating to his campaign? Is there some evidence you could cite to substantiate these claims?


by jazzyjay on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:59:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Jeeez!  This 2 year senator literally has twice as much experience in public office than Edwards does.

Jeeez!  I didn't realize that 250,000 people are so much dumber than you are!  They must really all be idiots, every single one of them.  Totally fell for the corporate media!  Little did I know that Obama himself is pretending to be a rock star and that they've misled people to his rallies because they thought they'd see Coldplay!  Wow, I didn't realize that Obama has no positions on issues, like - he didn't take a stand against the war in 2002 for instance, unlike my hero John Edwards!

Jeeez!  I never thought I could be so condescending and make so many people feel bad because they don't agree with my choice of a nominee.  They must all be suckers!


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's the saddest part about Obama (none / 0)

When you strip away the pole dancing and 1/2 nude pics on magazine covers - all that's left for his supporters is his opposition to the war.
And even that quickly fades since he began voting to FUND the war as soon as he was elected.
If Obama supporters were really interested in supporting a candidate who has opposed the war from the gitgo - they'd support Kucinich.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the saddest part about Obama (none / 0)

Pole dancing...okaaaaaay.


"If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." - George Orwell
by This Machine Kills Fascists on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:07:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

good call on the Coldplay, dan!!!

Obama $$$$$$$$$$upporters are $$$$$oooooo lame, lol lol lol lol, that, like, that's probably the music they would li$$$ten to, lol lol lol! geez! i mean, gosh, pick up a death cab for cutie album! or are you to bu$$$y li$$$tening to the muzak that the corporatists in the corporate media are telling you to like???

lol lol ttyl ttyl


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

sorry for the confusion, i meant to say "corporati$ts".


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 3)

Actually Obama is busy blaming progressives, democrats on the division. There's an article on his strategy. It looks like that's part of his big gamble.

He is delusional. George W. Bush was Mr. likable and Mr. Uniter in 2000, did that prevent him from attacking Al Gore and the democratic party's policies in very partisan language? NO.

Obama is avoiding any partisan language on issues. He did not even mention Bush's failed policies in his stump speech. According to him, all the failures are because of the division shared equally by both parties.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 10:57:34 AM EST

You make some very good points (3.00 / 1)

All of which still makes me wonder.  Is Obama really in this to win it?  Just looking at the money he is raising you'd say yes he is.   But I can't believe he thinks he is going to win a Democratic nomination being soft on Republicans.

This makes a small part of me believe that he is in this to raise his national profile, and and increase his war chest to better position him down the road.  

Primary voters need a little (or maybe a lot) of red meat.


by dpANDREWS on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:04:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 2)

Good catch, it was very interesting to compare Obama and Edwards on Libby:

Obama

"This decision to commute the sentence of a man who compromised our national security cements the legacy of an Administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law. This is exactly the kind of politics we must change so we can begin restoring the American people's faith in a government that puts the country's progress ahead of the bitter partisanship of recent years."

Huh?  It's a poorly worded statement, but it never mentions Bush or Republicans as those that are too blame, instead saying it has something to do with what he calls "bitter partisanship."  As if Democrats are to blame for Libby.  Strange.

Edwards

"Only a president clinically incapable of understanding that mistakes have consequences could take the action he did today. President Bush has just sent exactly the wrong signal to the country and the world. In George Bush's America, it is apparently okay to misuse intelligence for political gain, mislead prosecutors and lie to the FBI. George Bush and his cronies think they are above the law and the rest of us live with the consequences. The cause of equal justice in America took a serious blow today."

Places blame squarely on Bush who is mentioned three times.  This is the difference between someone running a partisan election meant to elect many Democrats, and someone who hasn't understood the lessons of 2006 and is running some fuzzy purple bi-partisan campaign.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:08:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

"cements the legacy of an Administration characterized by a politics of cynicism and division, one that has consistently placed itself and its ideology above the law."

Um - he could have been more clear and used the name, but he certainly did say it was the legacy of this administration, so saying it never mentions Bush is pretty inaccurate.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:12:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 3)

What does "cementing the legacy" mean?  That is the trouble with Obama's rhetoric.  I'm not worried about Bush's legacy.  This whole statement was a commentary. Edwards statement was a condemnation.  You have read into Obama's statement to find the condemnation.  

I like Obama's oratory at times, but there are times that just plain language would be nice. Like this one

George Bush and his cronies think they are above the law and the rest of us live with the consequences.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Obama and Hillary will say nothing negative about the DC elites - funding their campaigns.
That's another reason I'm supporting an outside candidate.  We see the effects of Hillary and Obama's bipartiCONship - and Lieberman's influence on them.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Annefrank, there is so much wrong with your post it's hard to know where to begin.  Clearly you've worked yourself up into a frenzy about your boy John Edwards that you ignore the reality of who these politicians are and where they stand.  

250,000 people funded Obama's campaign?  All DC elites?  And Edwards has...no DC elites?  

We've entered silly-town.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Apparently, you're not aware of all the DC elite moolah Obama is raking in.
250,000 donors! Wow!  sex sells! Obama Girl sells!
Edwards solutions aren't sexy - but they are Progressive.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 06:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Pioneer, we can disagree with his style, that's fine.  You like Edwards' tone more, great.

But your preference is your own, and not a reason why Edwards will win or Obama will lose.  My argument is not for or against a candidate.  

My argument is simply that there is a lot of misleading discussion on these sites.   There is a lot of projection and wishful thinking - "Because I support this candidate and think this way about him...this is why he will win!"  

Like I wrote earlier, just because you like something doesn't mean everyone does.  Just because you don't like something doesn't mean everyone doesn't.  

You may not like Obama or his style, but he can't be doing EVERYTHING wrong based on his results so far.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

I agree with your point here.  And if you read my posts I give credit to Obama for his fundraising and attracting many supporters.  I was just commenting on his rhetoric in that sometimes a very clear statement would be better.  That criticism comes from the fact if he wins the nomination he will speak for us.  

I do support Edwards and I am will BTD on this -  Edwards has a very good chance, but it will be hard work.  Clinton and Obama seem to be ahead in certain aspects of the campaign.  However Edwards is being underestimated by the pundits or perhaps not.  They seem to want to diminish him in the public eye.  

Thanks for your reply and my focus is to point out the merits of Edwards and the flaws I think are significant in the competitors. And NO, Obama can't be doing everything wrong - he has attracted a large following.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 05:34:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you have any actual examples? (none / 0)

When has Obama ever blamed progressives for anything?


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actual examples (none / 0)

"Playing chicken with the troops."


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 04:07:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actual examples (none / 0)

"Playing chicken with the troops."


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 04:07:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actual examples (none / 0)

I would agree that it was not Obama's finest moment.  However, it's amazing how certain Edwards supporters are so unwilling to forgive that one moment by Obama, but so willing to forgive the fact that Edwards voted for the war and then spent two years traveling the country proclaiming how his support was the right thing to do.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 04:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: actual examples (none / 0)

They probably would be more willing to forgive Obama for that if the other didn't keep coming up.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 05:36:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards set to surprise again (none / 0)

Just the way he did in Iowa in '04 he can do it again this year by proving he is a factor to be reckoned with.  

I do think for him to do this Nevada is a big state for him.  It appears thats he is really besting Hillary in picking support of the unions.  He needs to show in Nevada that he can take that support and turn it into victory.  


by dpANDREWS on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:00:20 AM EST

Re: Edwards set to surprise again (1.00 / 0)

so far,Edwards is polling behind Obama in nevada, so i dont know where you get the idea that Edwards is doing good in nevada....Clinton is doing great and Obama is second.....The only state that Edwards holds a lead is IA...nothing else.
by JaeHood on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:08:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards set to surprise again (3.00 / 1)

Nobody knows how to poll Nevada especially, but also SC.  Plus, the campaign in Nevada is in its infancy.  Plus, Nevada is a caucus, so it's about GOTV and turnout.  When the SEIU endorses Edwards, the Nevada caucus is over.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: S.C (none / 0)

There is no way Edwards will win S.C...the black electorate is too large to edwards to stand a chance. S.C is a primary,not caucus.
by JaeHood on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:23:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: S.C (none / 0)

AFrican-American vote in SC is 45% in the primaries, maybe more with Obama in, but that vote will be split three ways.

Probably
Obama 40-60%
Hillary 30-50%
Edwards: 10-15%

Unless Sharpton gets in.

There's reason to believe that in SC Obama helps JRE by taking A-A votes from HRC.

Especially, if he comes in with an Iowa and Nevada win, a win by Edwards in SC is certainly plausible.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:35:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: S.C (none / 0)

JRE spiked in a recent ARG July 3 poll from the teens into second place in the twenties.  

compare this to this

edwards is surging in South Carolina, while Obama is tanking in South carolina.


by truthteller2007 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: S.C (none / 0)

Edwards (unlike Clinton and Obama) doesn't have a web page for South Carolina, and, as far as I know, doesn't have an office in South Carolina.

Obama does have a good organization down there, including campaign offices, and is the only candidate to have visited upstate (Michelle Obama also did an upstate swing the week before the 4th of July). He's also won a lot of endorsements from activists and elected officials, which will help as the campaign develops.

I'm not saying Edwards isn't surging in SC, he may be. But I will say that you're wrong to say Obama is "tanking." That is simply not the case.

One more thing to look out for in South Carolina: the endorsement of Rep. Clyburn. This will be huge for whoever gets it.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards set to surprise again (3.00 / 1)

Not just SEIU but also UNITE-HERE and the culinary workers.  


Help build a stronger and more progressive Democratic Party from the grassroots on up
by Peter from WI on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:20:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't say he was doing great there (none / 0)

I said he has to take his union support and turn it into a victory there.

I have seen the polls you reference.  He has work to do.  I am not sure where he polled in Iowa, in July of '04, but he needs to get it done in Nevada in '08.

For Edwards to have a chance I think he needs to win 2 out of the first 4 and finish second in another of the first 4.  In short he has to put Obama away and show he can go toe to toe with Hillary.  Thats his longshot chance.

Hillary is still looking like she should roll up the delegate rich states in the northeast and west coast.  If that doesn't change all Edwards or anyone else is doing is fighting for second place and a good prime time speaking slot at the convention.


by dpANDREWS on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:20:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 0)

Jerome mentions it, but just to emphasize: in addition to activists, the union endorsements will come out in September and that will be a huge boost.  


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:00:22 AM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Sort of the way they were for Howard Dean in '04?


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:10:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 0)

Unions split their endorsements in 04 between Dean, Gephart and Kerry.  And by that they wound up having little influence - I think after Labors big gains and movements in 06 they'll want to stay relevant and leadership will push for getting behind a single candidate.


Hoosiers for Hill -- Barack Obama
by BWasikIUgrad on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:32:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

That candidate could well be Clinton.  


by georgep on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Why?  There's no up-side to backing Clinton.  If she wins, she'll assume she was inevitable and won with the corporate money that the DLC supports.  She'll blow unions off.

If Edwards wins, he'll owe his win in large part to unions and they'll be able to have real influence in his administration.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 04:09:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

For the last time, the union will not endorse a faltering Edwards...Edwards will have to gain traction before the Union throws their full backing behind him...This is not 2004 when you had unknown candidate...The Union will not dare cross Hillary's establishment or Obama, the new fund-raiser-and-chief of the democratic party. Dream on if you think the Union will make the same mistake they made with Howard Dean..Union bosses have already stated that it is very unlikely they will endorse anytime soon.
by JaeHood on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:11:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

I think unions will either support Clinton or Edwards. I think if Clinton continues with the present poll numbers she will likely get most of the large union support. Unless Edwards can show tremendous poll strength in multiple states as Clinton has I think they will hold off on endorsements for awhile to see what happens.  


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:26:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

I have to step in.

Do any of you guys talking about the union endorsements know the process?

You act like all unions are monolithic and that labor in general is monolithic.


Help build a stronger and more progressive Democratic Party from the grassroots on up
by Peter from WI on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

They don't.  I also don't see them stabbing themselves in the back by endorsing Clinton.  I only see them endorsing her, if she fires Mark Penn.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

No, no.  All of the unions will endorse Clinton because she'll win.  There's no other reason to endorse a candidate.  If a candidate is going to win, you vote for them.  It doesn't matter if their policy would continue to marginalize your own constituency.  You vote for the winner, not what they stand for.  And Clinton stands for winning.  She's "in it to win it".  What else do you need to know?

/snark (Unfortunately I feel this tag is necessary due to rampant Snark Recognition Deficiency Syndrome, or SRDS, in this thread)


by cesar on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:25:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Unions back the not republican candidate, since Regan's attack on unions as a matter of ideology.


by jazzyjay on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 04:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

What is the process at the national level?  At the municipal level, my local had worker committees that interviewed candidates and received information about viability and political realities from the organizers/leadership.  I assume that there are not presidential interviews, but is there still an endorsement committee at each union?  And who tends to populate them?


by ahkiam on Sat Jul 07, 2007 at 03:25:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is Edwards fading? (1.00 / 0)

"The proclamations that Edwards campaign is fading come a bit premature."

But he has certainly faded in the intrade.com prediction market odds. He's down to about 5% chance of winning the Dem nomination from a max of 25% back in January.

Meanwhile, Clinton still leads in intrade odds, but she has trended down to about 40% while Obama has slowly fought his way up to about 38% aided by the news of his 2Q fundraising success.

For comparison, Giuliani, Thompson, Romney and McCain are at 36%, 35%, 17% and 5%, respectively for the Repug nomination.

Regardless of whether people here buy these odds or not they are reflective of what people think, or at least what the establishment's "in-touch" crowd thinks and what people willing to invest money into these things believe, so I'd say it may be pretty hard for Edwards to make his way back up to first-tier status if the perception is that he's toast.


by End game on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:13:23 AM EST

Re: Is Edwards fading? (3.00 / 1)

Both Kerry and Edwards fared very poorly at times in prediction markets last time around, just as they did in real polling.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:18:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is Edwards fading? (none / 0)

So the truth is: who the hell knows?  It's early.

The one fact that is clear: the blogosphere is not 100% representative of what the Democratic electorate thinks.  Which is fine, it's just important to remember that fact sometimes.


by dansac on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:24:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exactly (1.00 / 0)

sometimes, those edwardians seems to forget this fact...They really think that the democratic electorate doesn't think like they do because if it was the case, Edwards would be leading everywhere. The democratioc base is also more diverse then the blogs...Edwards base has no diversity and the blogs fits him well. Obama base is young and strong in diversity...This means his base is larger then Edwards's with a lot of potential to grow even larger.
by JaeHood on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:30:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwardians!!! (3.00 / 1)

I like that!!!

I'm an Edwardian. I used to be a Deaniac.


by mrobinsong on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:02:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exactly (none / 0)

Edwards base has no diverstiy?  And you know this how?  Just because his main support is old white men?  Is that all you base it on?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

I like the moves..Edwards did a lot last year for minimum wage in states where it was on the ballot..
would like for him to play this at his rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTW0y6kaz WM

"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud" ...Arlo Guthrie
by DenverD on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:23:51 AM EST

A Few Things (3.00 / 2)

First, Iowa, as far as I know is still first.  And, aside from a few outliers, Edwards still has the momentum there.

Second, the early states will come down to organization and I hope you will all recall that many (including perhaps Jerome) have said that the vaunted Republican 72-hour GOTV program was stolen from what labor has done for years.

Third, labor votes while other talk.

Fourth, John Kerry was doing so lousy in 2003 that he had to self-fund the campaign and he had a very complete staff shakeup (much more severe than this).  Kos said that it was a horrible sign for the campaign and that Kerry was done.  We see how that worked out.

Fifth, I will work for whoever our eventual nominee is.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:47:37 AM EST

Re: A Few Things (none / 0)

As many as 15 states will have started early voting before Iowa. They will not be the first votes cast for 2008. With early voting both Clinton and Obama may have a sizable lead in delegates before Iowa.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Few Things (none / 0)

Will that have a foundamental impact on Iowa shock? It's too early to tell. But I do remember Howard Dean did much much better in NM primary than the other states with the same primary day. The reason was because NM voters could cast ballots before IA, which minimized the Iowa shock.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:47:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Few Things (3.00 / 1)

See #2 and #3 above.


BlueNC - Progressive NC Politics
by Robert P on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:07:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Few Things (none / 0)

This is wrong.  There will be 2 states that will have started early voting before Iowa and 2 states that will start early voting on the day of the Iowa caucus.  Montana and California will start early voting on January 6th and 7th respectively.  Iowa's caucus, as of now, is scheduled for January 14th.  Illinois and Florida start their early voting on January 14th.

Now it is true that 15 of the February 5th states do have early voting, but 13 of those don't start early voting until after the Iowa caucus.

Here's the link to early voting laws for each state.

http://www.electionline.org/Default.aspx ?tabid=474


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 03:09:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

heartfelt and sincere wishful thinking.  And it may be correct.

In the end, I think it will be hard for John Edwards to close the deal.  He has been out of politics for 4 years.  He chose to run for vice-president instead of staying and fighting for his senate seat; he has only been involved in politics for one term in the senate.  During these years he was not known as a leader of any sort.

I realize that national polling shows him doing well in general election match-ups.  In the end, however, democratic voters and caucusers will have to determine whether he really can accomplish what he says he wants to.  I think this will be very hard for him to do.


d
by d on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:52:44 PM EST

Re: this is wishful thinking. (3.00 / 1)

riiiight- can you back up what you post or is this just all purely what you feel? I mean you call this diary heart felt pure belief-- although JErome provides actual strategy, positioning of key people, where Edwards will fit in, etc- and what do you provide to counter balance this? That people don't think edwards can do it? wht do you base it on? that hte polls say that head to head people do at this moment think that he is the best choice against the GOP, but that they will start thinking what about hrc or obama. I am not one for polls, but I really get nothing of additional value as to why jerome is wrong from some of these posts when all he has said is that edwards has a shot. you say he doesn't- why?


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:03:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

It is never a good sign when an incumbent decides not to run again because he thinks he will lose.


d
by d on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:08:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (3.00 / 2)

Prove that point.  All the polls in NC said that if Edwards would have run again he would have won.  From Fox News

In the senate race, the Republicans gained the seat formerly held by John Edwards (search). If Edwards had run for reelection against Republican Richard Burr (search), it appears Edwards would have held on to his seat by a 53 percent -- 47 percent margin. Seven percent of those voters that would have voted for Edwards voted for Burr.

So don't keep repeating lies.

Edwards chose the ethical approach of dedicating himself to his presidential run.  He beat a Republican incumbent in his election in 1998.  He just couldn't get people to vote for Kerry.  They would have voted for him.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:36:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

I guess we'll never know since he decided not to run.  That senate seat was more important than running for vice-president- because it was very unlikely that another Democrat besides him could have won that seat.  He should have known that.


d
by d on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (3.00 / 2)

I love how you don't even admit you are wrong.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:00:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

The polls you love tell us he would have won.  Peviously you said he would have lost.  I give you data that is different and now you say we don't know.  You just ignore facts you don't like.  And make up other ones.

The senate seat was the responsibility of the one running and the DSCC.

If Edwards had been at the top of the ticket we would be talking about the reelection of President Edwards.  


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

I didn't know that I love polls.  Thanks for telling me.

I also didn't say that John Edwards definitely would have lost his senate seat.

I also have not been citing facts, statistics, or data.

I have been giving my opinion.  You can disagree or agree with that at your pleasure.


d
by d on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 05:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

again funny how you changed throughout the thread depending on what was said to you and disproven. its fine to have an opinion, but being obstinate about it isn't a good thing. you should at least check to see if its factually correct. saves a lot of pain.


by bruh21 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 11:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

Shown much leadership?  The same could be applied to both Obama and Clinton as well.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is wishful thinking. (none / 0)

i agree.


d
by d on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 04:36:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

I am ignorant about how it works in other states..
What States have winner take all?
 In States that aren't winner take all is the proportion of delegates equal to the percentage of the vote?(or caucus)

Here in Colorado it is caucus. I don't see any Dem candidate getting over 50% here. Regardless what happens before the 5th

I am wondering if it is possible that no candidate comes to Denver with over 50% of total delegates locked in?


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud" ...Arlo Guthrie
by DenverD on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 12:58:11 PM EST

Edwards is the real (3.00 / 2)

movement candidate.  ACORN, Wake Up Walmart.

The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party.   Working people.  The netroots.  

Great post, Jerome.  

It really is people power that matters in a democracy.


by littafi on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:00:52 PM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 3)

Hillary on Fortune magazine cover this month, "Business Loves Hillary."

In May, Edwards in an article by same writer, "John Edwards: Union Man," by Nina Easton, Fortune Washington bureau chief.

Why is it that CEO's who represent corporate privilege know their friends  (Obama is also mentioned in the article as a friend as well as Clinton), yet progressives do not? People who call themselves progressives won't say, this one is on our team and that one is not. This is what our team stands for and their team stands for something else.

Instead, we get so often arguments about image, just like in the low-information media. She seems strong, a winner, poised, improving, shows a gutsy style - all as if a vote is a style point on the political fashion runway.

Fortune speaks for the other side with more clarity:

"Nevertheless, should Edwards overcome stiff odds and win the presidency, a new and more hostile day is sure to dawn for Washington's business interests, particularly if Democrats retain control of Congress. Legislation to make union organizing easier would readily pass (already it passed the House this year), as well as other measures to boost the bargaining leverage of organized labor. Universal health care, mostly resisted by the private sector, would top his agenda."

"The hyper-cautious Hillary Clinton learned the dangers of a frontal assault on business interests with the disastrous reception to her 1993 health-care plan."

"Barack Obama hails from the party's liberal-left wing, but prizes consensus. For President Edwards, though, the grievances of working Americans would land squarely at the door of corporate America."

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/f ortune_archive/2007/05/14/100008849/inde x2.htm


by mrobinsong on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:15:30 PM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

I find this statement to be really telling of the blindness of business:

For President Edwards, though, the grievances of working Americans would land squarely at the door of corporate America.

Who should address the grievances of working Americans other than corporate America?  They are in charge.  Yet they feel the others won't make them address the problems.  

Edwards is not anti-capitalist, he wants to level the playing field which has tilted towards corporate power since the union busting of Reagan.  Workers have a right to share in the wealth they create.  Wall Street is worried.  The ethics and values astound me.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (3.00 / 1)

From above link "Blue Green Alliance" we find the repetition of the  Anti-Dem Candidate Narrative:

"The changes come after a disappointing fundraising quarter for Edwards and some communications challenges, including the continued fallout over his $400 haircuts and connection to a New York-based hedge fund."

"the continued fallout" = we like repeating $400 haircut every time because the owners of this newspaper like us to take cheap shots at Dem candidates. Besides, it's fun and easy.

http://www.philly.com/philly/wires/ap/ne ws/nation/elections/presidential/8337012 .html


by mrobinsong on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:30:00 PM EST

Well said, mrobinsong. (none / 0)

I am always amazed when centrists try to tell me that Edwards is not progressive, when it is clear they don't want progressive solutions. I think your comment explains well the big campaign donations to Clinton and Obama. Both are Democrats the wealthy can "live with."


by littafi on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 01:31:58 PM EST

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Kind of blatant attempt at spinning but sorry, it didn't get particularly wide coverage - most places had an AP story about it buried deep within the paper, I couldn't even find it on CNN - and I'm not even sure what Armstrong is saying the "spin" is, especially since the spin is that the real story in anything other than Trippi is taking a larger part in the campaign after a 35% drop in dollars between Q1 and Q2.


by DD2 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:18:04 PM EST

Jerome Overestimates (none / 0)

the number of "true partisans" and "true progressives" in the Democratic Party. It's easy to do something like that--when you surround yourself by the same type of people, it's hard to realize that not everyone is like you.

Edwards making inroads into organized labor is the bigger story here. This is where Edwards would be getting real voters, and a real organization, that are helpful to the campaign.

Also, I don't think you have to be partisan to be a true progressive, and there are a lot of progressives attracted to Obama's campaign


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:51:52 PM EST

Re: Jerome Overestimates (none / 0)

really?  progressive as a result of stagnation with republicans through compromise?  progressive as moving to the right?  progressive as injecting more faith into politics?  progressive is comparing bill clinton to newt gingrich?  please.


by truthteller2007 on Fri Jul 06, 2007 at 02:59:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Campaign Moves (none / 0)

Not for nothing, but has Trippi ever worked for anyone who actually won an election? His bio lists his presidential campaign creds (in no particular order) as, Edward M. Kennedy, Walter Mondale, Gary Hart, Richard Gephardt and Howard Dean. I note that the only one of the above to actually win the nomination has the distinction of having gone on to lose the general election by what I believe was the the largest electoral college landslide in presidential election history (by a nose).

It's ironic that Trippi worked for both Dean and Gephardt, given that he was responsible for the Dean campaign's side of the relentlessly negative and hideously expensive slugfest with Gephardt in Iowa in 2003 that effectively ended the 2004 primary campaign for both men. I heard Trippi himself call Iowa a "murder-suicide" later in interviews, which pretty neatly summed it up I thought.

Yikes! If I were the Edwards campaign, the only spinning I'd be doing where Trippi is concerned would be spinning around to run as far away from that dude as I could get, as fast as I could get there.


by CalD on Sat Jul 07, 2007 at 05:08:16 PM EST


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