Biden at The Blue Strawberry

This is Nate Willems.  I was a regional director for Howard Dean's Iowa campaign and recently finished law school at the University of Iowa.

Senator Joe Biden spoke to 100 Linn County Democrats at The Blue Strawberry Coffee Company in downtown Cedar Rapids this morning.  The room was full and the candidate was 30 minutes late for an 8:00 a.m. event (I'm guessing Senator Biden will not be on time for any event today).  Biden spoke from the middle of the room with his back to a Coca-Cola refrigerator and an ad for Smithwick's Ale.  

Biden has a strong voice that filled up an acoustically difficult room without a microphone.  He started by addressing Bush's commutation of Scooter Libby's prison sentence, concluding that the President's attitude towards the rule of law is more arrogant than Nixon's.  Moving on to the Vice President's recent statements that he need not comply with congressional subpoenas, Biden asked rhetorically, "He says he is not part of the Executive branch.  He says he is not part of the Legislative branch.  What the hell is he?"

The bulk of Senator Biden's remarks and the question and answer time were spent, not surprisingly, on Iraq.  Joe Biden's campaign for President could almost be boiled down to one idea: Iraq is the most important issue facing America and I am the only one who can solve it, nobody else has a plan.  Biden seems to see a herd mentality affecting Democratic Presidential candidates in supporting total withdrawal from Iraq as soon as possible; he sees this as irresponsible and argues that we will need to continue to have some troop presence in Iraq so that a regional war does not break out and/or "so we don't have to send our grandkids back to Iraq."

I spoke to Marian, a self-described "reluctant Democrat" in her 60's.  She likes both Biden and Richardson.  She did not care for the way Senator Clinton responded to a question about AIDS in the recent Howard University debate; she thought Clinton was playing to the crowd and that Biden and Obama had more responsible answers.  Marian asked Senator Biden about former New York Mayor's Ed Koch's comments that the Democratic Party is weak on terrorism.  Biden responded that it is Bush and the Republicans in Congress who are weak on terrorism.  His answer is that Republicans have voted to reduce funding for all manner of homeland security related items such as first responders, port security, etc.  Biden said that the Bush administration's talk about fighting terrorism in Baghdad so we don't have to fight them in Boston is just nonsense.

Senator Biden is, of course, quite capable of speaking on issues other than Iraq and terrorism.  An audience member has to ask him about it, though, because Iraq and the Bush administration are the focus of his stump speech.  Furthermore, after speaking about Iraq for 30 minutes, audience members seem a bit less inclined to ask him about domestic issues and more inclined to ask follow-up questions related to Iraq, terrorism, etc.

There are other candidates for whom I do not intend to caucus that are very impressive in person, but I have no difficulty in not supporting them.  Every time I see Biden, though, I come away impressed and feeling at least a little guilty that I don't intend to caucus for him.  I think that he has a sort of sincerity that comes with age.  He comes across just as ambitious as anybody else running for the presidency, but with Biden you get the sense that he is in the race for the right reasons in a way that is not apparent with some of the other candidates.  People often say, "Well, I bet he would be a great Secretary of State."  To which I often reply, "How can anybody who has been in the Senate for 35 years take a new job with a boss?"  Sometimes we have a desire to find a role in our heads (Vice President, Secretary of State) for candidates we genuinely like but simply do not believe can or will win, and thus, we are less likely to support.  This may provide a bit of rationalization in our decision-making process.  

Joe Biden's job, for the next six months, is to get in front of as many caucus attendees as possible and make Democrats' decision-making process more difficult.  



Display:


why I will never vote for Jo ebiden (none / 0)

Many reasons, but the guy authored the RAVE act, authoritarian anti free speech legislation that makes throwing a warehouse show a criminal act.

Never.
He is my dead last choice, no matter how smart he is on foreign policy.

-C.


by neutron on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 12:30:41 PM EST

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (none / 0)

He can be really good in the "attack dog" mode, when he's completely pissed.  I'm not voting for him, but I find him highly entertaining and at least somewhat effective in getting fecal matter to stick to the GOP.


by NC State Dem on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 12:33:05 PM EST

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (3.00 / 1)

I don't know, I've seen him speak in a classroom and let me tell you, I came away with "Thank God this man has no chance at the presidency."

It disturbs me somewhat that he's even a senator, but I'm not a citizen of his state so that's not something I can effect.


by MNPundit on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 12:48:52 PM EST

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (none / 0)

I've seen him speak a couple of times, and sometimes he's impressive, sometimes not. But those who know him regard him as one of the smartest Senators, even if he does run his mouth. He's my choice.


Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?
by Nathan Empsall on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:31:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (none / 0)

Regional War -- so Biden explain?


by SandThroughTheEyeGlass on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 12:49:34 PM EST

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (3.00 / 1)

Biden is referring to the increasing role that Iran, Saudi Arabia and others are taking on behalf of their favorites between the Sunni and Shiite factions in Iraq.  W/o tribal autonomy supported by guaranteed oil revenues for all factions, international (both european - french - and muslim) intercession in the wake of US withdrawal and direct diplomacy w/Syria and Iran as well as other (Jordan, Pakistan, Egypt) muslim nations, the potential for expanded conflict in the region grow geometrically.


by Tony Rose on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 01:52:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden and Justice Thomas (3.00 / 2)

Biden is the Democrat singly most responsible for the confirmation of Clarence Thomas.  After Anita Hill testified, it was a "She Said, He Said" problem:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl e/0,9171,974096-1,00.html

The opponents, however, wanted to call another witness who also witnessed Thomas' crude harassment and who would have corroborated Anita Hill's testimony.  Biden, however, as chairman of the judiciary committee, refused to call her, even though then-Congresswoman Barbara Boxer begged him to.

For me, that is enough bad judgment for a lifetime, and that is what we are paying: Thomas on the Court for a lifetime.


by Arthurkc on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 12:51:52 PM EST

Re: Biden and Justice Thomas (3.00 / 1)

Read the article, it cites three questions from Biden, one from Leahy, and makes the point of the White House/Hatch/Specter counter-attacks.

Biden voted against Thomas.  If you're going to cite an article in the future, suggest it is one that makes your point, not simply serve as the suggestion of proof.


by Tony Rose on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 01:58:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden and Justice Thomas (3.00 / 1)

Biden mismanaged the whole process. I am old enough to remember. He let the Republicans frame it as Thomas being the most qualified black person--Biden should have released a list of two dozen black judges who were more qualified than Thomas.

by the time Anita Hill testified we had given too much ground. I even had friends who said things like, well, I don't think he sounds that great, but I do think we need to have a black person on the court. As if Thomas was the only possible black person for the job!


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden and Justice Thomas (none / 0)

But wasn't one of the factors for the Dems Sen Kennedy's problems of the previous summer? And because Kennedy sat on the committee, Dems were much less reluctant to make the case about sexual harassment and defaulted to the issue of competence?  

This also happened only one year after Jesse Helms' infamous attack on Harvey Gantt by misrepresenting affirmative action and David Duke winning 60% of the white vote in LA the previous year.

My point is, Biden voted against Thomas.  To the extent Dems weren't more aggressive in framing the issues, there seems to be plenty of blame to go around and hindsight is just another word for Monday morning quarterbacking.


by Tony Rose on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden and Justice Thomas (none / 0)

My cite was to the article that supported the "She Said, He Said" nature of the testimony.  I could not find an article about the missing witness but it is documented in the transcripts of the hearing and the telephone interview, by Senate staff, of the witness never called, Angela Wright.  Here is the cite to that book of transcripts, gathered by Nina Totenberg:

http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Transcrip ts-Clarence-Thomas-Anita-Hearings/dp/089 7334086/ref=sr_1_19/102-5165247-8055369? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1183485992&a mp;sr=1-19

Those transcripts also document the harsh treatment of Hill by the Republican senators, allowed by Biden, and the lack of incisive questioning by the Democrats, presided over by Biden.

My main criticism stands: Biden was largely responsible for Clarence Thomas being confirmed for the Court, the walking lie of Bush-41: the "most qualified" nominee alive.


by Arthurkc on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But remember (1.00 / 2)

He chaird the Judiciary Cmte during the Bork hearings. Who would you rather have, Thomas or Bork?


Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?
by Nathan Empsall on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:32:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not Related (none / 0)

When Bork bombed, we ended up with Kennedy.  Overall, even with hindsight, Democrats performed well.  That does not, howwever, give Biden a free pass the for the next bad nomination.


by Arthurkc on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:43:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Related (none / 0)

The point is nobody is all bad, and every single politician who has done some good has also inadvertantly done some bad, and we shouldn't focus so much just on the negative.


Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?
by Nathan Empsall on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 03:42:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (none / 0)

I'm probably in a similar category with you in that I'm astonished to watch Biden's performance in the campaign so far and NOT come away with the sense that he's a total douchebag.  And I don't mean that facaetiously, I mean I thought a year ago that Biden was precisely and exactly a large bag of douche; but in the two debates (or one debate and one Forum) that I've seen him in, I left much more impressed with him than I'd solidly expected to be.

That said, I doubt I'd ever be a supporter for him for prez--his record is enough to turn me off of that.  But he's actually doing a decent job pushing the "I'm the only hope for getting Iraq right" meme, or I guess he is b/c I'm biased against that position but nonetheless find it persuasive when he talks about it.  He also seems to speak from a position of real authority on the Darfur issue.

Summation, he's not going to win the nom, but so far he's playing a valuable role having a presence in the debates, but not in an easily-ridiculed fashion as when Kucinich talks about for-profit healthcare (no matter how right he is--and he is right) or when Gravel discusses, um, pretty much anything...

I also agree that it's naive to think of the cabinet positions that these people might occupy some day...tempting, but never gonna happen for lots of reasons.


The Wages of Sin is about $5.15 an Hour.
by hz on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 01:01:36 PM EST

Biden does well in person (none / 0)

I saw him last fall at a small event in Des Moines, and he handled questions well.

Iowa City blogger John Deeth wrote up Biden's event there yesterday:

http://jdeeth.blogspot.com/2007/07/biden -time-on-ped-mall.html


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:21:10 PM EST

More than just Iraq (none / 0)

Biden harps on Iraq because it's his best issue (he's the only candidate with a DETAILED plan), much like Dean did with Iraq and health care in the early stages of 04, but it's not his ONLY issue. He's great on Darfur, his website features an energy plan, and no matter what you ask him, he knows numbers and details and has a plan - health care, New Orleans, education, etc. And of course, he was the author of the Violence Against Women Act. I've seen him, we've met, I'm hoping to eventually work for his campaign in the fall. He's my guy.


Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?
by Nathan Empsall on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:33:59 PM EST

Re: More than just Iraq (none / 0)

Biden's Iraq plan is pretty strong. But honestly this mostly just makes me wish that he were pushing that plan in his capacity as Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, rather than in his capacity as a U.S. Presidential Candidate.

Okay, a Senator has much less he can directly do to promote an Iraq plan than a President. But there are surely things in the direction of that plan Biden could be doing now if he were to throw the whole weight of his chairmanship behind it, and he can do these things now, instead of having to wait a year and a half until he could potentially become president (frankly unlikely). At least this would shut up the Bush "THE DEMOCRATS HAVE NO PLAN" nonsense for good.


by Silent sound on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 04:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But he is (none / 0)

He, along with Boxer and Brownback, introduced the plan as a resolution last month, he's held hearings, and he meets works with other Senators like Dodd, Lugar, and Hagel. What else can a Chairman do on an issue where the Constitution gives the power to Shrub?


Ever heard of a Blue Moose Democrat?
by Nathan Empsall on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 04:32:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden at The Blue Strawberry (none / 0)

 Sen. Biden "... argues that we will need to continue to have some troop presence in Iraq so that a regional war does not break out and/or "so we don't have to send our grandkids back to Iraq." His statement assumes that we should have been there in the first place which is wrong. I have a hyypothetical question.  Assume that we had not violated the Constitution by invading and occupying Iraq. Assume that Sen. Biden was the elected President. If the ongoing virtual war between the Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds subsequently erupted into a full scale civil war during his administration, would Sen. Biden order our troops to the area to restore order? Is he saying we should be the world's police force?
I don't believe that he is talking about maintaining or restoring order in the Middle East. He is talking about maintaining fully manned permanent bases in Iraq in order to protect our multinational corporations' interests, mainly oil,  and to defend Israel. Contrarywise, if one prioritizes the rule of law and the security of the United States against its foreign enemies, our troops and good deal of our money would stay in the United States where they can be used to improve our homeland security.

by outrider on Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 10:16:51 PM EST

Pass me what you're smoking outrider.... (none / 0)

it must be some good stuff.

The statement you quote at the beginning of your post by no means implies that Biden thinks we should have been there in the first place. That is YOUR interpretation of his quote, nothing more. If you have listened to him talk over the last several years, you would know that Sen. Biden wants to get out of Iraq, leaving only enoughs troops to help train the Iraqi army and to be able to take on al-quidai if needed while we are still helping to train the Iraqi army and police.

And, if you knew anything about his plan to get out of Iraq, you would know that he wants all of the oil money to be divided among the different factions in Iraq - not enriching our multinational corporations.

And your point on Israel? I think you've swallowed one to many conspiracy theories.


by Norm91 on Wed Jul 04, 2007 at 01:07:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pass me what you're smoking outrider.... (none / 0)

If he doesn't believe the troops should have been there in the first place, why does he believe they should be there now?  If invading and occupying was wrong, why isn't continued occupation wrong? If he recognizes Iraq as a sovereign power, should not the Iraqis be the ones to make the decisions regarding our presence?
Did Sen. Biden vote to go to war?  Has he voted to continue to fund the war?  
by outrider on Wed Jul 04, 2007 at 10:32:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Have you ever heard of the phrase (none / 0)

You broke it you bought it? That's essentially what we did in Iraq. A complete, immediate pullout will create an even greater bloodbath than exists now, except there will be fewer American deaths. If all you're worried about is American soldiers today, then by all means, let's remove them all tomorrow. If however, you want to help stablize the region while removing our soldiers, then that involves a staged removal, with soldiers leaving over several months, if not a year.

By the way, if you want to leave it to the Iraqi's to determine if we leave or not, then we will be there a long time, as the Iraqi government over and  over has asked us to stay.


by Norm91 on Wed Jul 04, 2007 at 05:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden's Plan for Iraq = Continued Death (none / 0)

A county the size of California, Baghdad is Iraq's largest city with 7 million residents. Iraq has 15 other major cities, hundreds of smaller cities and towns and thousands of villages with another 20 million people.

We don't have enough troops now in Iraq to bring stability to the country - and never will absent re-instating the draft and sending hundreds of thousands of soldiers, which of course should and will not happen.  

So how will reducing the number of troops in Iraq - but still keeping some stationed in the county - which is what Biden, Obama, Clinton and Edwards advocate - achieve anything other than continued America deaths?

Should we remain in a bloodbath to prevent a greater bloodbath if we leave?  No. Our troops did what they are assigned to do.  Saddam was removed from power, no weapons of mass destruction were found, and free and fair elections were conducted under a new Iraqi constitution.

But now they are faced with an impossible task.  They have become the targets of all sides in a civil war.  It is a war of attrition.  The battlefield is 360 degrees.  There is no front or rear.  As each day passes, more U.S. soldiers die from snipers' bullets, roadside bombs and mortar attacks. Spouses become widows and children are left without a parent.

Almost 3,500 U.S. soldiers have been killed and 25,000 have been wounded, many suffering from traumatic brain injuries that have left them permanently disabled and in need of medical care for the remainder of their lives.

Biden and Clinton were wrong to vote for the war. And they are wrong today to advocate continued deployment of U.S. forces in Iraq.  The scars of this war of choice by President Bush and the members of Congress that supported it will last for generations. The longer we delay the inevitable, the deeper the wounds are inflicted.

The only candidate in my opinion that has a solid plan for Iraq is Richardson, because he'll get the U.S. out completely - total withdrawal - and has the foreign policy experience and expertise to wage the diplomatic offensive that will be necessary to see the region not descend further into war.  

Richardson spoke in D.C. at the Take Back America Conference and set forth an unambiguous approach to Iraq - total withdrawal of U.S. forces combined with a diplomatic offensive:

But there is a fundamental difference in this campaign -- and that's how many troops each of us would leave behind. Other than the customary marine contingent at the embassy, I would leave zero troops. Not a single one. And if the embassy and our embassy personnel aren't safe, then they're all coming home too.

No airbases. No troops in the Green Zone. No embedded soldiers training Iraqi forces, because we all know what that means. It means our troops would still be out on patrol with targets on their backs.

A regional crisis is worthy of military intervention. A true threat to our country's security is worthy of war. But a struggle between a country's warring factions, where both sides hate the United States, is not worthy of one more lost American life.

. . .

The way we help heal Iraq is to bring all of our troops home within six months. Only then can the hard diplomatic work really begin. That's how we avoid a regional war.

I would leave troops in neighboring countries that want us, like Kuwait, to help keep the peace. But we need to hand over security of Iraq to an all Muslim peacekeeping force.

We would then have a moral responsibility to do everything we can to bring the different factions together in a national reconciliation conference.

We also have a strategic interest in organizing a regional conference with all of Iraq's neighbors, including Syria and Iran, to help stabilize Iraq. No one in the region, including Iran, wants an Iraqi civil war ... and no one in the region, especially Iran, wants Iraqi refugees.

Some will tell you that once we leave Iraq, the country will become a hotbed of Al Qaeda activity. That's just not the case. There is an old Arab proverb -- "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Up until now, Al Qaeda was tolerated in Iraq because they were killing Americans.

Once we're gone, the Iraqis will have no further use for Al Qaeda and they will drive them out. We're seeing the beginnings of this already in Sunni attacks on Al Qaeda, but the process will accelerate once we're gone. Too many Iraqis have died at the hands of Al Qaeda and retaliation will be at hand.

Two months ago in North Korea, I was proud to help show how talking to your enemies can produce results, like reducing the North Korean nuclear threat and bringing home the remains of six American servicemen. The situation is similar in the Middle East. This president broke Iraq. The next president has to know how to use diplomacy to fix it.

I will tell you this -- my world view is different from my colleagues. In my career, I've been able to get results, not with harsh words, but hard work. You talk to your adversaries. You listen. You get to know them well if you want them to hear what you're saying. And with understanding comes resolve. And with clarity comes cooperation.

It's how I've approached foreign affairs. It's how I've approached governing. And it's how I'll serve as president of this great country.

More than anything else, we have a moral obligation to those American soldiers and citizens who've laid down their lives overseas.

Some say we cannot let their sacrifice be in vain. But you will never convince me that those slain patriots would have wanted a single additional life to be lost ... just to validate their own sacrifice.

Instead, the moral obligation is to honor their service by bringing their mission to a close. By ending the bloodshed ... and finally letting the Iraqi people and the American people to set a new course.


Bill Richardson: "Get out now. Get all our troops out now. It is the only right and responsible choice."
by Stephen Cassidy on Wed Jul 04, 2007 at 01:54:19 AM EST


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