John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat

John Edwards concludes his Road To One America poverty tour today with a major speech in Kentucky, the site where Robert F Kennedy ended a similar trek in 1968. The washingtonpost.com has a remarkably uncynical interview with Edwards HERE and there's been some excellent coverage in the diaries HERE, HERE and HERE.

Much of the media coverage of the tour has couched it in political terms such as The NYTimes Caucus blog, which wonders if Elizabeth's dig at Hillary yesterday took away from coverage of John or The AP, which feels the need to conclude that by retracing some of RFK's steps, Edwards is "linking himself to a Democratic icon." But last night on Hardball, Chris Matthews asked a more meta question that hit on the larger ramifications of Edwards' focus on poverty:

MATTHEWS: You go to fundraisers, people who go aren't average people, they're big shots, there's a lot of billionaires behind the Democratic Party. They don't want to hear anything that sounds too populist because it threatens their lifestyle. How do you get back to being the party of regular folk?

EDWARDS: My party and the Democratic party that I believe in stands up for ordinary people, stands up for the little guy, stands up for people who don't have health insurance, who live in poverty and who don't go to fundraisers. That's what the heart and soul of the Democratic Party is and we can never lose that because if we lose it we lose our soul. And it's gonna require us to have a little backbone and stand up for what we believe is right regardless of who's affected by it.

For me, this harkened back to his stunning California Democratic Party convention speech in April in which he framed his progressive agenda  -- fighting poverty, fighting global warming, expanding access to healthcare -- in moral terms: "because it's the right thing to do." In the speech, he was very specific about how this agenda reflected his vision of what it means to be a Democrat:

If my party can't be the party of the poor, the elderly, the disenfranchised, why else do we exist?

I'm glad he's getting back to this. As I've written before, the candidates are running for the Democratic nomination, they have a unique platform from which to help define the party. But it's not just the candidates who hold that responsibility, the congress does as well and under the leadership of Nancy Pelosi they have made great strides. Their success in raising the minimum wage, expanding access to low income housing and increasing Pell grants to help reduce college costs has gone a long way toward helping poor Americans while making a point to remind people which party is doing the helping. I highly recommend watching Rep. George Miller's fiery floor speech attacking Republicans for trying to kill the bill that would lower the cost of college and a close up of the poster he used as a visual aid, which provides a side by side contrast between what Republicans did for low income kids while they were in power and what Democrats are doing.

And remarkably, it hasn't entirely gone unnoticed by the media. Excerpts from a recent The New York Times article over the flip:

Update [2007-7-18 18:21:22 by Todd Beeton]: Interesting that Barack Obama gave a speech about poverty invoking Bobby Kennedy today as well. A more cynical fellow might accuse him of trying to steal Edwards's thunder. Perhaps he's just trying to maximize the impact of Edwards's tour by amplifying the message (that would be the glass half full interpretation.) But no matter how you read Obama's timing, it's telling that his speech doesn't contain the word "Democrat" once.

On Capitol Hill and on the presidential campaign trail, Democrats are increasingly moving toward a full-throated populist critique of the current economy.

Clearly influenced by some of their most successful candidates in last year's Congressional elections, Democrats are talking more and more about the anemic growth in American wages and the negative effects of trade and a globalized economy on American jobs and communities.

[snip]

...the latest populist resurgence is deeply rooted in a view that current economic conditions are difficult and deteriorating for many people, analysts say, and it is now framing debates over tax policy, education, trade, energy and health care.

[snip]

Democrats say they are responding to economic trends that the statistics in the headlines do not capture, including middle-class insecurity about jobs, the affordability of health insurance and the costs of education. The times have changed, these Democrats argue, and six years of Republican tax and economic policies have heightened the inequities.

More of this please.



Display:


Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 3)

Well, according to Debbie Wasserman Schultz on Hardball a few minutes ago, none of that matters.  All women should vote for Hillary Clinton because Hillary Clinton is a woman.  That's all that matters.  It takes precedence over everything.  What Hillary Clinton believes on the issues doesn't matter at all.  She has ovaries.  If you have ovaries, vote for Hillary, because she has them too.  It doesn't matter what she thinks.  She's a woman.  Isn't that enough?

It doesn't matter whether you are a Democrat or a Republican.  If you are a woman, you should be for Hillary Clinton, because she's a woman, according to Wasserman Schultz.


by OE on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:10:15 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

Does that mean if you are black you should vote for Obama?

What if you are a black woman?

Does that mean if you are a mormon you should vote for Mitt Romney? (Okay...that could probably happen and no one would notice...)

Does that mean all white men should vote for another white man?

All kidding aside, it is a terrible way to decide who you are going to vote for but I think that kind of thinking is more prevalent than you'd believe on the surface. It is in fact the main reason I don't count HRC out in a general election. I think there could be a lot of women who might say they won't vote for her who will once they are alone in the voting booth.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

And a lot of white men who say they would vote for Obama, won't. Closet racism is rampant in the USA.


by antiHyde on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:39:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know them? (none / 0)

I don't.


Obama Citizen Ad Videos
by lovingj on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How do you know this . . . (none / 0)

beyond how you feel?


Obama Citizen Ad Videos
by lovingj on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How do you know this . . . (none / 0)

Because I work with them. They will be very friendly with our black co-workers, then call them the N word behind their backs. I suppose they think I agree with them because I'm old and white and wear my hair short.


by antiHyde on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 04:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am so tired of race issues about Obama. (3.00 / 2)

Supporters say people should vote for him because he is a Kenyan Kansan, and others say he can't be elected for the same reason.  I just wish he could come to terms with being a Democrat.  


by littafi on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:14:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am so tired of race issues about Obama. (3.00 / 2)

Yes - I saw Obama's Centrist Republican-lite side on Conan last year 6 months before the election. (thank you AdamB for correcting me on the date)

During a long interview with a huge national audience, Obama never mentioned the word Democrat or Democratic.  And while many of us were busting our guts registering voters - he never once mentioned the 2006 election nor encouraged people to register - and vote!
But as soon as he announced for Prez - registering voters became important. Bingo!


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:13:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saw that... (3.00 / 3)

I love Wasserman-Schultz, but I wonder if she would say the same thing if it was Condi Rice?

There is too much of this going around.  Some of the support for Clinton and/or Obama is based on solely gender and/or race.

It's almost taboo to raise that point, however.


by citizen53 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Democrats have gotten much better (3.00 / 2)

at economic populism since the 90s. Even Hillary stays away from the DLC talking points. The rhetoric from candidates like Edwards, Obama, Dodd and Kucinich is more similar to Nader than to Gore 2000.

Bill Richardson is the sole exception with his talk about being a anti-tax, pro-growth, pro-business centrist Democrat.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:12:30 PM EST

Re: Democrats have gotten much better (none / 0)

Richardson is a Western/Mountain States Democrat.  And while that region is certainly becoming bluer, the Democratic brand there is quite different from the left or right coasts.


by edgery on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:22:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

He is right.  If we don't care about ordinary folks, including the poor, we are no better than Rs.  


by littafi on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:14:19 PM EST

I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 5)

Is Mydd on the Edwards payroll?

But seriously, you missed John Edwards' speech at the DNC Winter Meetings, easily the best of the bunch. He had the same theme powerfully delivered - the average working man, beset by problems. Who's going to stand up for them? The Democratic Party, that's who.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:14:59 PM EST

I know you were being (3.00 / 0)

sarcastic about folks like me but I really ask myself that question all time.

Is MyDD and Dailykos on Edwards payroll?  Let me check that FEC report again.


Obama Citizen Ad Videos
by lovingj on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know you were being (3.00 / 1)

I asked it so you wouldn't have to. : )


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know you were being (3.00 / 3)

Yes anyone who likes Edwards' message and rather than being cynically nasty about it - we are all on Edwards payroll. It's the only reasonable explaination. that what he says resonates with those of us who would like to see the Democrats remember what once made us a great party. It's incredibly easy to ignore the message by saying shit like this. It means you don't have to thinka bout what's being said. I don't know your age- but I am sick of people who are above the fray on this kindof shit. If you want to know how we got a Katrina- its exactly this sort of spinning even heart felt belief into being nothing but politics. ALl of these people- HRC, Clinton and yes Edwards got into politics because they care about issues like this. So for once, respect that they all do rather than belittling the fact you don't happen to support the one talked about here in one particlar diary.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well said. (none / 0)


by bookgrl on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just another example (3.00 / 3)

of the inability of Obama supporters to engage in discosurse without ad hominem attacks.


by littafi on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:59:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know you were being (3.00 / 1)

Oy


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 4)

seriously, don't read anything like that into my coverage, I call it as I see it. I can point you to some very pro-Obama stuff I've written and I got a lot of crap from Edwards supporters for saying Obama is surging in NH the other day or that "Hillary is winning" last week, so they're not exactly thrilled with me either. fact is Edwards deserves coverage for this tour (more than the blogosphere has given it I think) and credit, in my mind, for proudly stating why he's a Democrat when it seems like making partisan distinctions is seen as "bickering."


by Todd Beeton on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:48:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please do (1.00 / 1)

point to some "very pro-Obama stuff" you've written. In the last, oh, six months would be even better.


by jforshaw on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:53:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 0)

Fine.  What does a major policy speech by Obama have to do with John Edwards?  Why is it being handled as an update to a John Edwards story?  And what does repeating the word Democrat have to do with what he is saying in his speech?  He is running for the Democratic candidate for President of the United States.  Everything he says states why he is a Democrat.  He embodies what it is to be a Democrat.  


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:55:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 2)

But why would Obama come out with that speech now, while Edwards has been talking about it for weeks, unless he is scared Edwards tour is resonating. He could've waited until tomorrow.


by RDemocrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (none / 0)

He is very aptly pointing out and reminding folks that he may know a bit more about poverty, up close and personal, than Edwards.


by aiko on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:25:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (none / 0)

I disagree. If he knows more about it, where are his proposals to fight it? In some fancy speech, or on paper??


by RDemocrat on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 02:28:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 2)

It's more of a comment on Obama supporters than anything else. They usually accuse Jerome of the same thing.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Todd, you are right. You know who is (3.00 / 3)

very good at carrying a "let's get the people's business done" with out all this partisan bickering message, while still clarifying what it means to be a Democrat, Deval Patrick.  Someone wrote something about that here, maybe it was you.  But, anyway, you can be for bipartisanship AND carry the mantle of the Party if you want to.  I think Edwards deserves alot of credit for talking about poverty  It's great if others want to talk about it as well, and tout their records of advocacy, but I really think Edwards is the one bringing this issue front and center.


by bookgrl on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:57:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 3)

I also really like how he's wearing a big D proudly wherever he goes. And, I also like he doesn't tear down the party for not paying as much attention to organized labor as we should. Instead, he invokes past Democrats like FDR and RFK, men who symbolize the kind of Democratic values that set us far apart from the Republicans.


Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley
by Sarah Lane on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'll ask just to get it out of the way (3.00 / 2)

Thank you Todd.  I don't understand the constant whining of the Obama supporters because Edwards gets some coverage for his creative and truly progressive campaign.  Everytime Edwards does something that is worth looking at, Obama supporters complain for attention too.  They can't seem to be able to be gracious at all.  

And I agree with you, the blogoshere has become reticent in covering what Edwards is doing so the complaining works.  This was an amazing tour and maybe more will come out but it does deserve coverage because this is what progressive Democrats need to be doing.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

Those are some nice words from Edwards. Nice words and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee.

What did Edwards actually do for poor people when he was a Senator?


by Pope Jeremy on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:24:17 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

We live in a world of specifics. I'd appreciate specific accomplishments.


by Pope Jeremy on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

you don't care what they are because your sole reason for coming into diaries such as this isn't about what he does. we can remember what you have written before you know.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:41:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

I really don't know why I haven't come around to seeing things your way yet.


by Pope Jeremy on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:08:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

What are Obama's specific accomplishments? What are HRC's (besides trying to force everyone into a State-run HMO)?


by antiHyde on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

Hillary actually voted against the bankruptcy reform bill -- the same one Edwards voted for. That's good for Hillary, bad for Edwards in regards to the poor. Obama at the time was not a Senator, but is on the record as very vocally against it.

Obama, when he was in the Illinois State Senate, voted for a $100M increase in State Earned Income Tax Credit. He was also famously a community organizer on Chicago's South Side, where poverty is no stranger.


by Pope Jeremy on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:07:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means (3.00 / 1)

What bankruptcy reform bill?


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:20:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

Fact check: you got your bankruptcy bills wrong.

What has Obama done for creating a new kind of politics as a Senator?

Cozied up to Joe Lieberman, reinforced right-wing frames and language, sided with the Rubinite Hamilton Project...


Help build a stronger and more progressive Democratic Party from the grassroots on up
by Peter from WI on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why do Obama supporters lie? (none / 0)

Hellooo! Edwards wasn't even in the senate in 2005 - so he couldn't have voted on the bankruptcy reform law.
But JoeBamas keep repeating this lie all over the net! because see - like Bushies - winnning is more important than Truth!!!!!

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why do Obama supporters lie? (none / 0)

The bankruptcy reform bill was passed in 2001. It was the first major legislation of that new congress under Bush.


by Pope Jeremy on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 10:12:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lie much? (none / 0)

Both Hillary and Edwards voted for the 2001 bankruptcy bill.  Edwards has since said he regrets it, and used that opportunity to speak out against the 2005 bankruptcy bill.

Otherwise, I suppose a lifetime of fighting for everyday people against big corporations doesn't count as a "record" in some books, but it does in mine, as does his defense of Clinton during impeachment, his efforts in the Senate to reform health care through the Patients' Bill of Rights, and his post-Senate efforts to restore our focus on anti-poverty efforts.


by Drew on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:42:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lie much? (none / 0)

I wasn't lying, but I was wrong about Clinton's vote on the 2001 Bankruptcy Bill. Looks like I got some bad information there.

At any rate, I'm not a liar, but your personally accusatory attitude precludes any further discussion.


by Pope Jeremy on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:40:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

Well, you know what sucks? Edwards proposed lots of great bills, a long with many other Dems that never saw the light of day. Edwards co-sponsored, geez I don't know how many minimum wage increases with Daschle to Kennedy to Reid, they never even got to the floor. Edwards co-sponsored the Patients Bill of Rights with Kennedy and McCain and even with a Republican on board they couldn't get it through the Repub controlled Congress. Go over to Thomas.gov and look at all the great pieces of legislation that were sent to the dungeon by Edwards to Kerry to Kennedy, it's so sad how little the Dems accomplished because the Republicans weren't having it.


Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley
by Sarah Lane on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

Lots of things! His amendment to Tele-Health would have give rural folks better access to health care services. The Patients Bill of Rights he co-sponsored had everything to do with patient protections. He introduced the Women in Trauma Act, which would have helped fund women's shelters all across America, not to mention provide more funding for counseling for women who were sexually or physically abused. He co-sponsored tons of minimum wage increases. He introduced legislation to reinstate what the Treasury Dept gutted, which was the ability for states and state AG's to protect their citizens from financial scams, from the banking, mortage, and predatory lending industries. That's just a few bills he authored and co-sponsored. If you want to go back even further, Edwards did lots of great things in NC, like building two learning labs for kids who couldn't afford tutoring and computers.


Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley
by Sarah Lane on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Thanks for your response.

I agree with every point except the one about the learning labs. Those are all good things, but I fail to see how they make him a more appealing candidate than, say Obama, who has also done similar things.

As for the learning labs. That's nice, but even Republicans make charitable donations.


by Pope Jeremy on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 03:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

Honestly, stop being dishonest, I've answered this "question" of yours several times.  

1. Edwards-Kennedy-McCain Patients Bill of Rights
John Edwards spent a lot of time in the senate working on these health issues.

He co-wrote and was a named sponsor of the Senate's Patients Bill of Rights (passed senate, stalled in republican House) in 2001 (remember he had been a patient activist lawyer).

A Summary of the Kennedy-Edwards-McCain Patients Bill of Rights, S. 1052.

WaPo's Full Coverage: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/pol itics/specials/health/patientsrights/

Time magazine interview with Edwards on the bill: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/ 0,8599,131721,00.html

For what it's worth: Wikipedia on the Kennedy-Edwards-McCain Patients Bill of Rights.

2.  The Kennedy-Edwards Minimum Wage Increase Act
Introduced 4 times from 1998-2004.


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:02:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

John Edwards is the only progressive in the race. (3.00 / 2)

C'mon, I've flirted with Hillary and as can be read on my sig line, long for Al Gore, but, as of now, the ONLY true progressive in this race is John Edwards.  Period.  No matter how the Hill and Obama folks spin it, Edwards is the only one.

A candidate that won't even fucking name our party in a speech?  WTF?  How smarmy.


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:27:06 PM EST

Re: John Edwards is the only progressive (none / 0)

What do you think of this?  Could Fox News use it against Dems?

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arch ives/2007/07/al_gore_defends_rupert_murd och.php


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards is the only progressive (none / 0)

I don't even have to look at that link. The answer to the question, "Could Fox News use it against Dems?" is yes. FoxNews will use anything, true or made up, to make Democrats look bad. It's their purpose for existing.


by Pope Jeremy on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 10:29:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

I really appreciate your dig at Obama who actually worked as a community organizer, often times with poor people.


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:29:24 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

Here from Wikipedia (THIS is what a life working to help poor people looks like):

n 1985, Obama moved to Chicago to direct a non-profit project assisting local churches to organize job training programs.[24] He entered Harvard Law School in 1988.[25] In 1990, The New York Times reported his election as the Harvard Law Review's "first black president in its 104-year history."[26] He completed his J.D. degree magna cum laude in 1991.[27] On returning to Chicago, Obama directed a voter registration drive.[27] As an associate attorney with Miner, Barnhill & Galland from 1993 to 1996, he represented community organizers, discrimination claims, and voting rights cases.[28] He was a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School from 1993 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004.[29]


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

so does that means he is above politics?


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who said he's above politics. (none / 0)

Is Edwards above politics?
Does that even mean anything?

--------

Who cares, in a primary, in a speech on eliminating poverty, how many times a Democrat says "Democrat"?  Oh yeah, maybe it's the guy who feels the need to convince people he's a democrat to compete (as if that isn't already obvious).

No, wait.  That's not fair.  Edwards is just answering a question about what it means to be a Democrat and how that relates to his tour.  Of course Obama wasn't answering that question; he was rallying support for doing something about poverty.  So I guess it's not really all that fair to use that against Obama.  Or maybe fairness isn't important.


by chicago jeff on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:07:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who said he's above politics. (none / 0)

actually I dont need my candidate to be above politics,and as to who is saying Obama is above politics the response here to a simple mention of Obama playing politics says more than anything you would say directly.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:07:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Who said he's above politics. (none / 0)

Just trying to figure out your last comment.  It seems trollish.


by chicago jeff on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 09:18:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

this is the second time has preempted or tried to a candidate giving a major speech. He did the same with HRC on Iraq. I am not saying its a bad strategy- but come on. Are you serioulsy saying he may not be doing it for timing. It doesn't take away from him caring about the issues, but he also wants to win too you  know.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:43:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

I am saying he has walked the talk. You have got to give him props on that whatever else you may think about him.


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

No one has questioned whether he cares about the issue. The question is whether he is capable of playing politics.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:54:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Show him some love!


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Of course that is the issue.

As you know this has been the problem with Obama now for some time.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

He's been working in legislation for years longer than Hillary has. Hillary has 7 years experience in the Senate. Obama has 11 years in both the U.S. and Illinois State Senate. I think he knows how to play politics by now. He has more experience than Hillary at it.


by Pope Jeremy on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 10:30:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

I'm not saying Obama doesn't have bona fides on the issue, he absolutely does, but can we address the fact that he rolled out this speech on the exact day of Edwards's? hey, it's the sort of tough politics a lot of people have been calling on him to start to practice.


by Todd Beeton on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:51:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

He didn't just roll out this speech.  It is a major policy address, given to the people of Washington D.C. that follows the endorsement of their Mayor.  Not everything has to do with John Edwards.  And if you want to talk cynical politics, do you really think it was mere coincidence Edwards planned his tour on the day when the Q2 fundraising specifics would be announced to try to deflect the story away from his disappointing drop off from Q1 to Q2?


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

spin baby spin spin right round


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means (none / 0)

Doug - Obama and Hillary supporters emulate the corporate media's claims that the candidates raising the most corporate moolah will make the "best" presidents. This is very anti-Progressive thought.
Also - if Obama were bashed and smeared by the corporate media 24/7 - his 2nd qtr wouldn't be so hot. But so far - he's not a threat to the corporate media nor their corporate sponsors - but rather a corporate icon and ally.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:33:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

Help me out here.

Why is it bad thing for two Democratic candidates to deliver an address the same day about addressing poverty?

I feel economic inequality is the most important issue, it is why I support Edwards, and I wish every single Democrat talked about it every single day.

Trond Jacobsen


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:29:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

If Obama wanted to keep poverty and the working poor in the news - he would have chosen another day to make his speech.
Instead - the purpose of the speech was all about shining a bright light on Obama - not poverty.

Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:39:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

You mean you're shocked that a politician might be trying a political stunt so that he can win votes?

Shocking!


by Pope Jeremy on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 10:32:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

He needs to starting working as a DEMOCRATIC politician.

I think he thinks he is still a community worker sometimes.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:30:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

Yeah thats awful! I mean geez someone who cares about the community! We wouldn't want THAT in a President!


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

Actually I would not want a politician who acts like a nonpartisan community worker.

You seem not to grasp politics at all imo.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Yah what we need is another politician! Someone really partisan. Forget about the American people and lets concentrate on the Democratic Party!!!!!!!! Thats what this is all about!

My dream is that one day in the United States a community worker can become president. Some people prefer banker, trial attorney, career politician, whatever..

To each his own.

(by the way why don't you change your handle to Small Tent Democrat)


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

I think your post is a perfect example of what I mean.

You want to abolish politics. You seem to think Obama can.

If Obama wins the Presidency you will soon learn that a PResident Obama will need a strong Democratic Party in order to accomplish anything. You will learn it because Obama won;t be able to if it does not exist.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Actually I think Obama is fairly pragmatic and will make a fine politician. Some would say he is too pragmatic...He is proving he has some political acumen wouldn't you say??? He is a first term senator making a serious run for the democratic nomination! That ain't chopped liver!!!!!!!!


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:05:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

the point is that his pragmaticism won't matter if he doesn't understand that he can talk all he wants about a new kind of politics, but its the dems that will have brung him, and its us whom he must be able to build into an effective coalitiond ay one. he won't have time for this rhectoric he has been using. the clinton's mistake was to try to govern above the fray too. this isn't theory or conjecture on our part. it's a reflection of having been there, seen that. it doesn't work when you are dealing with the GOP.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

I think he is a little smarter than you give him credit for my friend!


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:15:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

no one is that 'smart' this is a matter of understanding the world is not tableau rasa. that's the hubris of talking about new politics. this country has been around for quite some time before obama and will be around, god willing, after him, if he should become president. there isn't anything new to his politics. it's called clinton 1992. what happened to clinton's new politics? he got eatten alive in 1993. and no one questions how smart clinton is or his natural talents as a politician. this is the reality. can he achieve his goals ? sure after he has a learning period of being eatten alive. i would prefer a candidate who gets he's goingn to fight day 1 to change things, because power doesn't give up power easily.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama never lived in poverty (none / 0)

in his life.  He went to an expensive private high school in Hawaii.  Ivy League education.

My dream is a better nation; you're appears to be to annoint a king or saint.


by littafi on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 01:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 0)

it's telling that his speech doesn't contain the word "Democrat" once.

So every single speech any candidate makes should either contain the word Democrat or Republican no matter the occasion or context? Have you read every other Barack Obama speech on his website where he mentions Democrat several times?

Please go to this link http://www.barackobama.com/speeches/

Lets be factual here.


by rosebowl on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:33:32 PM EST

if memory serves, his announcement speech (3.00 / 6)

in Springfield also didn't contain the words "Democrat" or "Democratic Party."

Look, it seems pretty obvious that Obama is trying to run as a post-partisan and not as a Democrat. This to me is one of the biggest differences between the Obama and Dean campaigns, because Dean was proud to say he was "from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:37:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (3.00 / 1)

I don't care how a candidate refers to himself or how often they refer to their party. I care about what they stand for and what they are trying to accomplish. For that reason I have great fondness for both Obama and Edwards. They both remind me of why I got involved in politics in the first place, albeit in different ways.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (3.00 / 2)

That's fine.  But some people, including myself, do care how often a candidate refers to their party and I don't appreciate it when a candidate doesn't mention that he or she is a democrat.  It's not vote-deciding but it does annoy me.


by dbeard115 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (3.00 / 2)

Indeed, and neither does Obama apprently.

Obama's political style helps Obama but does nothing for the branding of the PArty as a whole.

Oner of the big roles of PResidential candidate and PResident is as standardbearer of the Party.

Obama is a guy, even now running for the damn nomination of the Party, who seems incapable of praising the Dmeocratic Party at all, who seems incapable of criticizing the Republican Party.

This is a damn big problem imo.  


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (none / 0)

He's busy praising those 'bi-partisan' buddies in GOP.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (none / 0)

exactly right. as i have said- been there, heard that to the idea that branding doesn't matter. it is like some of these people learned nothing from the clinton years and their mistakes.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (none / 0)

He's criticized the Republicans and, in particular, the Bush Administration plenty, but people on the internet choose to ignore this because it doesn't fit into the frames (and loyalties) they've developed for the race. It's a lot like the media refusing to cover the other candidates--it's a lot easier to think of it as a two (or, at most, three) way horserace than to actually look at all of the different policy alternatives being put forth. When you say he's incapable of praising the Democratic party and incapable of criticizing the Republicans, you're making yourself look foolish. Please actually review the content of what he's saying; he advocates for the progressive position. Even when he criticizes absentee fathers, he criticizes the Bush Administration for not providing the kinds of programs necessary to revive the communities these fathers come from (the MLK "both-and" approach).

He's running as an "inclusive" candidate because that's what he really believes in--that's how he's built success throughout his career, be it during his organizing days or his legislative days. Through it all he's always stood up for progressive principles (if you can't see the difference between what he's doing and what Bill Clinton was doing, remember that Bill Clinton never claimed to be a liberal, and his policies and rhetoric were very much "New Democrat" and centrist).

He will be very good for the party. As he often says, he'll reject the "can't do, won't do, won't even try" Charles Murray-esque attitude of the Bush Administration towards government. He will energize young voters and bring them toward the Democratic Party the way Ronald Reagan brought Generation X towards the Republicans. With his "New Social Contract," he will communicate the issues we have failed to pass time and again (with Democrats in the White House and both houses of Congress) to the nation in a way that makes them common-sense, much like FDR did with the  New Deal programs that survive to this day. You're passing up rarely precedented (once-in-a-generation, I'd say) opportunity to build the Party and make progress on the issues because you don't like the fact that he doesn't demonize the Party the majority of the country has belonged to or voted for the past 12 years, the ideology that most people subscribed to since at least the Reagan years. We're not going to get past these entrenched attitudes by calling people names and blowing our own horns when he haven't really done a whole lot with our majorities. We can communicate what he stands for and what his party stands for, and Barack Obama does an excellent job of that.

Let me ask you this question: if you had to pick one person from our party to talk to voters for about 10 or 15 minutes the night before the election, to make the case for why they should be voting for our party, who would you pick? Who has the ability and the credibility to make the case for our values?

Think about it


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 01:11:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (3.00 / 0)

Read Barack's speech on Faith and Politics where he strongly criticized the right-wing Christian Coalition for saying Democrats are immmoral. To try to imply that Barack is running away from the word Democrat is absolutely disingenuous, and I understand those who want to score partisan points with this falsity.

Read Dennis Kucinich's speeches. He doesn't throw in the word Democrat all the time. His emphasis is on progressive issues. So in this case are you going to accuse Kucinich of running away from the Democratic label?

This is really getting petty.


by rosebowl on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (3.00 / 1)

Read his previous speech on faith and politics where he slammed "some on the Left."

Read his previous statements attacking the LEft on withdrawal from Iraq.

This is a serious problem.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: if memory serves, his announcement speech (none / 0)

Yes - Kucinich voted with the Blue Dogs on the last Iraq bill - saying it didn't go far enough. BREAKING! extremists in Dem Party identified!
LOL
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:45:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He and Axelrod want to run (3.00 / 2)

as the Democratic "Arnold."  

I want a Democrat.  John Edwards is one. Barack?  Who knows?  When it serves his self interest, perhaps.


by littafi on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:00:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He and Axelrod want to run (3.00 / 3)

I'm with you. I like my Democrats Democratic. And I like them partisan, especially the leaders.


by DoIT on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:33:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards is running for us! (none / 0)

Exactly!  the country is sooo farrrr right now - that a Centrist approach that ALWAYS leans right anyway - will merely maintain the rightist agenda.

Hillary and Obama talk in platitudes and broad themes that include abortion, gays, voting rights, environment, etc. - basic Dem Party stuff.

But Edwards is calling for increasing taxes on hedge-fund managers, increasing taxes on companies taking jobs overseas, penalizing companies that hire illegals, allowing workers to unionize, increase minimum wage, fining polluters, fair trade policies, etc. - and he pays for this dearly, 24/7 in the CORPORATE media.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:59:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 2)

yes- thats what was written- not that one should try to take pride, but your aburd recasting of the point.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:44:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (none / 0)

Recasting of what point?

Does John Edwards mention the word Democrat in every speech he gives? Stop the dishonesty. You know better.


by rosebowl on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 2)

and now the spin


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:56:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 1)

Well, let's see...

He is running to be the leader of the Democratic party. So yeah, it might be a good idea to use the word every now and then.


by DoIT on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:31:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 1)

That is not true. THe leader of the party is Howard Dean.

He is running to represent the Democratic party in the presidential election and ultimately be the President of the American people.


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 0)

Good grief.

He uses the word Democrat in many of his speeches, and today didn't include it in one speech. This makes him less of a Democrat? January 2008 can't come any faster.


by rosebowl on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:01:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 1)

It makes him a poor standbearer for the PArty as a whole.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Word "Democrat" (3.00 / 3)

If he is a Democratic politician running for office, running to be the standard bearer of the PArty, you're damn right it better include the word Democratic.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:31:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like Edwards (3.00 / 1)

I think he is sincere. I think he's a good guy.

Regarding the comment about white men voting for white men ... I think that's a pretty solid historical fact. Mostly because white men historically have made up the field of candidates.

And: How many white men do you think voted for Jesse Jackson? Shirley Chisholm? Carole Mosley-Braun? I wouldn't guess too many.

Interestingly, my gal friends do not like Hillary. They won't vote for her in the primary. We think she is too hawkish. Some of us like Obama, some Edwards. But not a one of us has ever said she would vote for Hillary in the primary.

Not a one.


The GOP has pee'd on our rug, man.
by lisa on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:34:48 PM EST

Re: I like Edwards (none / 0)

Considering that Jesse Jackson, for a brief moment, looked like a real candidate I imagine he got some amount of support from white men. The other two were not nearly as strong as candidates as Hillary Clinton is.

I think there are plenty of white men who will vote for Hillary and others who will vote for Obama.

As for your friends, my earlier point was that I think there are many women who will say they will not vote for Hillary and who certainly will not be vocal about their support that will still vote for her once they are alone in the voting booth. I am not saying that makes them bad people, I am just saying that I think it will happen to some extent. I also think it would be even more true in the general election if Republican women had to choose between another conservative white male or the first legitimate female candidate for the presidency.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:54:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like Edwards (3.00 / 1)

Actually Edwards is running like Jesse Jackson.
Jackson was on Smiley about 6 weeks ago and Smiley asked him if he was supporting Obama. He answered by reminding Smiley of the issues he ran on - not platitudes, but issues the media didn't want to cover. He named them and damn I can't remember - but they weren't the typical Dem themes - but issues that were being ignored at that time.
Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like Edwards (none / 0)

My point was, my gal friends and I would tell each other if we were voting for Hillary. It's not something we'd feel badly about or make the other one feel badly about. We don't bullshit each other.

And none of us like her. None of us will vote for her unless she is the Dem candidate. Which would disappoint the hell out of all of us.


The GOP has pee'd on our rug, man.
by lisa on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:29:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like Edwards (none / 0)

I don't know any real people voting for Hillary - they're all online.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 3)

Wow. What a speech by Obama.  That is not update material, that's front page stuff.  It's his Urban Agenda.  I think the only thing "telling" about him not mentioning the word Democrat is you bringing it up.  Poverty and the problems of our poor in the inner cities is not a partisan issue or partisan problem.  As he points out, we have all failed them, those on the left and on the right.  This should be discussed in it's own front page story.  It has nothing to do with John Edwards.


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:44:24 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

I think your line "Poverty and the problems of our poor in the inner cities is not a partisan issue or partisan problem" is 100% on the money. Thanks for writing that as it needed to be said!


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:46:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama plays follow the leader again. (3.00 / 1)

Of course he does not mention the Democratic Party.  It's all about Barack.


by littafi on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:57:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

And he gives it on the day Edwards is completing his Poverty tour.  It is either tagging on or trying to steal the thunder.  He could have picked another day.  Obama talks about "new politics" but that is just for the Repubs.


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:03:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

I actually would prefer the tougher obama to what his supporters here are spinning. I mean I c ould respect that. But this whole " a duck is not a duck" routine is just a little bit insulting. Come on.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:08:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 0)

Sorry, but John Edwards is just not the center of Barack Obama's universe.


by howardpark on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:25:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 3)

"Poverty and the problems of our poor in the inner cities is not a partisan issue or partisan problem."

Actually, I think it is a partisan problem especially since Republicans politicians generally don't care about the poor and Democratic politicians usually do.


by dbeard115 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:11:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

From Obama's speech:


What you learn when you spend your time in these neighborhoods trying to solve these problems is that there are no easy solutions and no perfect arguments. And you come to understand that for the last four decades, both ends of the political spectrum have been talking past one another.

It's true that there were many effective programs that emerged from Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty. But there were also some ineffective programs that were defended anyway, as well as an inability of some on the left to acknowledge that the problems of absent fathers or persistent crime were indeed problems that needed to be addressed.

The right has often seized on these failings as proof that the government can't and shouldn't do a thing about poverty - that it is a result of individual moral failings and cultural pathologies and so we should just sit back and let these cities fend for themselves. And so Ronald Reagan launched his assault on welfare queens, and George Bush spent the last six years slashing programs to combat poverty, and job training, and substance abuse, and child abuse.



by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:17:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

That's pretty powerful.  Any idea about how much of Obama's material he pens and how much his speech writers produce?

That last paragraph absolutely nails the propaganda war part of the problem, in my eyes.

What specific plan elements did Obama forward to address urban poverty. Uplifting rhetoric validates one's feeling wronged, but it doesn't put food on the table.

And, as a partisan, I do think Reps bear the lions share of responsibility.  Reagan, Clinton (yes), Bush I, and Bush II all took their bites out the Great Society (whether the program worked or not) and Norquist and Rove set their sights on the New Deal.

While I acknowledge some programs have been less effective than we would like, the data is pretty darn clear that the Great Society programs did, in fact, reduce poverty and the rolling them back did, in fact, deepen poverty.

Trond Jacobsen

Trond Jacobsen


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:40:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

This proves what to you? "Some on the Left."

And then what follow s is pure "can;t we just get along?"


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:42:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

bingo- I like obama, and would support him,b ut this is one of my central issues with him.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

I read only the passage so, right or wrong, that was my reference point, not the entire speech.

The powerful part to me, and that I specifically identified, was the point about how individualizing the problem of poverty has been a successful and destructive tactic of the GOPers.  The implication, which I share, is that it is a social problem that affects us all and we need to do something about poverty together through government programs.

Before you jump down my throat, please realize that I also, generally, find the least useful part of the Obama approach his "can't we all get along".  As I said in another comment elsewhere, we need fighters and "blowing kisses to Lieberman is not leadership and is not helpful."

But I also recognize that the premises of debate and discussion on poverty in this country need to be changed and that a crucial element is to move people off the `it's their own damn fault' way of thinking.  It is also unfair to say, at least in my view, that absent fathers and drug abuse, etc., are irrelevant to the problem.  I just believe they are more symptom than cause.  

But Obama slips in what is for many Americans raised on a steady diet of poor-hating propaganda the vinegar of a watered-down social democratic solution with the sugar of 'all that stuff you have heard about missing dads and so on has some merit, but even so....'

I tried to make plain the type of approach I embrace: A massive new Great Society anti-poverty program.  I acknowledged that it wasn't perfect in every respect, but that it did work.  The problem of persistent poverty is mostly a function of gutting Great Society programs, putting the onus on the poor and pretending government can't help, when in fact anti-poverty programs did work, do work, and will work, if implemented with sufficient political will.  They should be expanded and newer and better programs designed.  We should not continue to curtail them, a la Reagan, Clinton, and the Bushes.

Getting from where we are to where I want us to be requires skewering the individualization of poverty and the idea that government just can't do any good.

So with that in mind, what do you find objectionable about the third paragraph?  I applauded his language and framing on this key point of countering the individualization of poverty.

Trond Jacobsen


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:23:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

i have no idea what you are talking about? changed to what? what exactly do any of you think you mean by what you are saying? its all just touchy feely shit to me. The problem with you and others is that you don't want to fight so you want someone who will tell you , despite how you try to couch in terms of willingness to fight, that there's a new way. There isn't. It's pretty simple. The best way is the part where we actually say what we mean, do that, and people will follow. Anything less and one gets the feeling you think you are going to, despite wha tyou may think you are saying, pull the wool of over the electorates eyes. I mean who do you think you are hiding from with all this?


by bruh21 on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 02:05:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

First, it is fine if you want me to clarify things I say if they are unclear.  But don't lump me in with "any of you" and ask me to defend things other posters have said.  That is ridiculous, and I won't take the bait.  And, do tell, what do YOU mean and how are YOU doing that.

Second, don't create a hobgoblin in your mind about whether I want to "fight", if I do fight, or how I fight.  The truth is you are in no position to know.  If your body bears the scars of attacks from scab-protecting policemen, then alright, otherwise STFU about that, you got nothing on me.

Third, I know you wrote this early in the morning, so I won't bust your chops too bad.  But if you think that your post is the paragon of clarity while mine is hopelessly opaque...well, we disagree.

Fourth, did you even read my post?  I said the way forward is for the party to focus on Great Society scale anti-poverty programs, including preserving those that remain and initiating new ones.  Not vague notions of working together or revising culture.  I said the key battle was new government policies modeled on Johnson's.  Why don't you share your approach if it differs.  Mine is to win power and use that power to implement expanded federal work programs, school lunches, assistance payments, etc.

Fifth, as I have repeatedly made plain I support Edwards and am troubled by Obamas appealing to vague notions of bi-partisanship.  If you hate Obama or hate Obama supporters, I suggest you learn to aim better.  I wish Senator Clinton focused more on poverty as well.

Sixth, all I said, and you do not even pretend to answer my argument, is that a problem faced by those who, like me, wish to address poverty, is that many Americans have bought the GOPer line that poverty is an individual pathology ('it's their own damn fault') rather than a structural feature of an unfair economic system and a government unwilling to do anything about it.  If you think that assumption is not correct...you are wrong.  If you think that changing that perception is important to generating support for aggressive government programs to address poverty...you are wrong.


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 01:48:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means (none / 0)

Well- I'll guarantee you when John Edwards is president there will be a full accounting of Katrina!  because he's not led around by the nose by LIEberman.


Hillary/Obama08
by annefrank on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:14:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

The reason it is not front page material here and the reason people are upset that he didn't mention the word democrat is because the crowd here is fiercly partisan (which I understand and usually applaud.) However, this breeds a certain amount of contempt and possibly fear in regards to candidates who are not as fiercly partisan.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:56:44 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

actually the reason is because edwards has spent most of his time talking about it, and obama's speech coincides with the end of edwards tour. again obama's supporters on him have almost a bushian suppoters ability to respin the facts.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 06:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

The only connection between Edwards speech and Obama's speech is the unnecessary inclusion in this diary.  If there is interest at this site to defuse flame wars rather than incite them, then this type of strained linkage should be avoided, not encouraged.


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

doug spin as much as you want. you insult yourself by expecting anyone to buy it.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:08:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

It is simply amazing to me that you get more excited about someone talking about poverty than you do about someone who has fought against poverty on a grassroots local level (which as we all know is the most effective way to fight the problem).

Doubtlessly there are many people who vote in our elections who were registered by programs organized and implemented by Obama. But I guess that doesn't matter!

To come to this site and read all this stuff stating that Obama is a neocon, given his background, seems innane. It reminds one of a Borges short story where reality and the imaginary are flipped.

I think there are two things anyone should be able to admit:

1. Obama has always been anti-war.
2. Obama has fought to help people improve their lives longer than anyone else running for President.

I am not shy in stating that while I see much to like in other candidates those are the things I like about Obama. If its not clear:

1. Judgment
2. Empathy

And I really dislike it when I see Obama's motives for laying out a speech on poverty questioned. Obama has actively fought poverty (voter registration is a very basic way to fight poverty by giving people their voice) far too long to have his motives questioned.


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 2)

Just a few things, Obama's not the only one who has fought poverty, so has Edwards, on many levels. Whether it was in the Senate, stumping for minimum wage increases state by state in the 2006 election, building two learning labs for kids who couldn't afford tutoring or computers (this was before he entered politics), the college program he set up for poor kids in rural NC, the work he's done with organizations like Wakeup Walmart, Hotel Workers Rising, Acorn, Habitat for Humanity, International Rescue Committee, the SEIU etc. I just wanted to point out that's not just talk, as you implied it is with Edwards. And, I for one would never rip Obama for talking about poverty it's good that he does! I like his history as a community activist and do not in any way think he's some sort of neocon. To tell you the truth, I think Edwards and Obama would make a great team! ;)


Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley
by Sarah Lane on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:43:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Thank you.  Both Edwards & Obama have so much to be proud about.  Both would be GREAT Presidents.  It's nice to read something positive about Edwards without silly attacks on Obama, and vice versa.


by howardpark on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:55:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 3)

It's great he did that.

But now he has a different role.

What part of that do you not understand?


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:54:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

I don't disagree that he has a different role now than he did as a community organizer. That being said I also admire the fact that he is trying to change what that role is.

People here seem to think him getting beyond the political party as an identifier is a bad idea, but I just don't think that is the case. There is a large segment of the population of this country that identifies not as a Democrat but as a Republican or Independent (and yes I am lumping every other party in with Independent,) and a large number of those people are struggling near or below the poverty line.

Obama, in my opinion,sees issues like this as ones that reach beyond party line to the fundamental ideas of what is right and what is wrong. When looked at in this fashion it makes sense to get beyond political parties to the real issues and work on them there.

The other issue is just how divided this country has become by this 10+ years of polarization and division. Many people will think I am overselling this, and many more will not care; however, it is reaching the point where people have become embittered with their neighbors, family, and friends over political views. It is affecting peoples relationships, jobs, and home lives. Regardless of who is right or wrong it isn't a healthy environment. We may not be ready for to get beyond it yet, and if that is the case Obama is certainly not going to be our nominee. But if it is time to get beyond it than he is a good choice.

I know I got a little bit away from the point here, but I hope this made a certain amount of sense.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not identifying with the Poltical Party? (none / 0)

And you think that is a good idera for the NOMINEE of the PARTY?

I am speechless.


by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:10:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not identifying with the Poltical Party? (3.00 / 1)

Yes I do. Because I think solving the problems are more important than using the word Democrat x number of times in a speech. We shouldn't be nominating our next candidate based on who sounds the most like a democrat. We should be nominating based on who is going to be most effective at actually furthering a progressive agenda rather than just talking about it. The truth of the matter is whoever is going to do that is going to have to be able to get beyond party because like it or not there are going to be republicans and moderate democrats who are playing a part in this process and that means having to work with them. I go back and forth on who I think that is (I have always liked both Edwards and Obama a great deal.) But regardless of who it is they are going to have to get beyond the fight in order to actually accomplish anything.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:39:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not identifying with the Poltical Party? (none / 0)

you start off with a false choice, and go down hill from there. the false choice is either one is a good demcorat or one cares about the country. so long that's the frame in your mind, nothing anyone can say to you will matter. because you simply want get you start off with a false premise from the star.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:28:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not identifying with the Poltical Party? (none / 0)

No, you over simplify my comment. I certainly think it is possible to be both a good democrat and care about your country. I would say that is true of just about everyone here, elsewise we would not be having these debates.

What I am saying is that the problems that face our society transcend Democrat or Republican or Independent. Furthermore, I think it would be good for the long term health of this nation to get beyond Democrat or Republican. Do I think that will happen overnight? Of course not. And I understand that there will always be major differences between the two. But the problems that we face are not unique to Democrats and I believe that it would be helpful for us all to admit that. I think Obama understand this and as a result tries to frame a great deal of what he says the way he does because of that.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 01:52:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not identifying with the Poltical Party? (none / 0)

and what I am saying is that each time you pretend like there is a difference between the two things you are creating a false frame. i dont care how much you think you aren't. It's a product of your arguments implicit structure.


by bruh21 on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 02:01:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Let's not inflate what Obama did.  There are hundreds of community organizers.   It was for 3 years.  It is good work and important but it was a job with an eye for a political career. He writes about that in his book with his exchange with his sister.  I don't have the book now to give you a direct quote. He made connections in that work that served him.  I never got a sense that alleviating poverty was a passion in his life.  


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Both Obama and Edwards have very solid.. (none / 0)

anti-poverty programs.

Both guys are committed to tripling the maximum EITC, for instance.

I'd be relatively content with either man in the WH.


by Ramo on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:08:08 PM EST

Re: Both Obama and Edwards have very solid.. (3.00 / 1)

now this is something i can agree with. for you obamaniacs- this is how you show support. you don't demonize or pretend that politics isn't a part of the game.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Obama and Edwards have very solid.. (3.00 / 0)

How about calling people obamaniacs? Do you (YOU) do that?


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Obama and Edwards have very solid.. (none / 0)

i am referring to you- not teh candidate. or can't you tell the difference between criticizing supporters iand the candidate in your cult like version of politics?


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Obama and Edwards have very solid.. (none / 0)

So what do you think of his plan to replicate the Harlem Children's Zone in twenty cities across the country?


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:22:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Both Obama and Edwards have very solid.. (3.00 / 1)

as I say above- I think both men are progrssives. I just support Edward more because I think he gets the times better. This isn't 1992 where we got to couch things in 'new politics' etc. This isn't the post Reagan era where we still are dealing with a conservative tide. we are in a tide that's headed progessive. to be able to take advantage of that a poliician must be unapologetic. That for me was the lesson from Reagan. He moved the center. The next Democratic President has that chance as well. I am principly concerned with Obama's rhectoric, not his values or what he believes in. I think that rhectoric will bite us in the ass as something the right can come in later to redefine. I think there is an issue of him wanting to not be branded Democratic at the very point in history where we need that brand to be strengthened. Who ever wins this election will- and this is my view- reshape history for the next 30 years. It's more important that even 2004 because it's not trying to get rid of Bush- it's trying to shape the country idealogical spectrum so a future Bush will not be able to come about.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton did not do build the Dem Party up (3.00 / 0)

With Obama's third way -- will that happen again?


by jasmine on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:20:14 PM EST

Re: Clinton did not do build the Dem Party up (none / 0)

I would not like Obama/Edwards as Edwards would not bring much to the table. I think once Edwards loses the primaries he ought to take himself off the VP pool. One failed run at becoming VP ought to be enough.


by lafinur on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

Has anyone else noticed how little of the commentary actually had anything to do with the substance of this diary?

Maybe sometime in the near future we stop all this sniping and get down a some serious discussion of the issues.

I would like to nominate the song: We Can Work It Out (Lennon-McCartney) as the theme song of this blog.


by DoIT on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:49:33 PM EST

Re: Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

Exactly.  What is the point of throwing in the Obama policy address as an update to a diary on Edwards?


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:51:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

...and get down to some serious discussion on the issues.

sorry, a brain fart (one cheek sneak)


by DoIT on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:53:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

what part would you like to discuss?


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (1.00 / 2)

Why did John Edwards schedule his Poverty Tour at this time when he had a previous engagement at the National Convention of Planned Parenthood?


by Doug Tuesday on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:50:23 PM EST

Jesus, Todd (3.00 / 2)

Edwards was asked a specific question about the Democratic Party. Of course he's going to talk about what it means to be a Democrat. I'd be worried about his hearing if he didn't

Obama was giving a policy speech about urban poverty. So he's probably going to be talking about that.

The most "telling" thing about all of this is the need for Edwards supporters to raise the issue.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 07:55:31 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

John Edwards is running a smart strong campaign. He's talking to Democratic Party delegates. He always identifies with the party, his party, our party, our party's history, belief system, soul.

He says who he is, who we are, what we are up against, as Democrats, as Americans, as patriots. He always says why he is running, what he wants to do as president. He talks about what is right, peppers his speeches with, "That's just wrong. It's not rocket science - it's just wrong. It's just that simple." He speaks in a way that no one can misunderstand or twist. Another thing of interest - he's always serious.

His speaking to questions, and in speeches and comments, is consistent, smooth, simple, transparent, and direct. He's got his groove in the first 6 months of the campaign and he can go for another 6 months without missing his beat.

it's a very good campaign that can move into the general with ease. Edwards' style? Big Easy.


by mrobinsong on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:07:59 PM EST

Snide, Boring and Destructive (3.00 / 0)

Todd's update attacking Obama is all of the above.  I really don't understand why so many candidate advocates can't build a positive case for thier candidate without attacking others.  It's too early for this shit.  Nobody has a monopoly on the legacy of RFK and nobody has a monopoly on fighting poverty.  Use your front page position to advocate for Edwards, fine, but using it to attack the motives of others is destructive to MyDD &, in a small way, the Democratic Party.


by howardpark on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:20:00 PM EST

MyDD is going to waste (none / 0)

This is just fucking pathetic. There's hardly any useful information up in the recommended diaries anymore and it looks like the front page is about fall prey to the ridiculous sniping of Edwards and Obama supporters. I hope you morons are proud of yourselves.


by crazymoloch on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 08:49:12 PM EST

Re: MyDD is just fine (3.00 / 1)

And how does your sniping raise the level of discourse.  As Gandhi once said, "be the change you want to see in the world."


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:03:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards (none / 0)

Wow.  Another diary that provokes dissention between Obama and Edwards supporters.  I love it!

Be right back.  Have to throw some butter on my popcorn!!

(keep arguing!)


The Facts: Please Read
by Regan on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 09:48:37 PM EST

Re: John Edwards (none / 0)

That's helpful.  Thanks for stopping by.  Enjoy the popcorn.

Trond Jacobsen


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards (none / 0)

Well, don't you understand that that was the entire reason that Obama was lured into the race?  To split the anti-Hillary vote with Edwards?  Now, they (the political establishment -- Democratic and media) didn't know whether the majority would go to Obama or Edwards, but it didn't much matter.

As long as it was split, it made life easier for Hillary Clinton, to get the nomination.

That's why they started saying Obama had to run, even though he had emphatically said in 2004 that he would definitely not be a candidate in 2008.  It wasn't that, "I have no plans" crap that most say.

It was "I will not be".  What changed?  What changed was he got to DC and started voting for funding bills for a war that he claimed to be against, and cozying up to the rest of the power elite in DC, most of whom can't stand John Edwards.  So, Obama went on his book tour and the ESTABLISHMENT MEDIA started pushing Obama, saying that he has to run for President.

Obama bit.  The political elite are satisfied now, because without Obama in the race (like he said that he definitely would not be), John Edwards would be demolishing Hillary Clinton, and all of them already knew that Edwards was running.  

So, a split between Edwards and Obama supporters?  What do you expect?  Obama supporters are doing exactly what the political elite hoped they would.  Jump on the Obama bandwagon which he didn't expect to even be creating for 2008, and guarantee that Hillary Clinton has an easy run at the nomination.


by OE on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 11:57:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (3.00 / 1)

But no matter how you read Obama's timing, it's telling that his speech doesn't contain the word "Democrat" once.

This has always been my #1 problem with a Barack Obama candidacy.  Whomever the Democratic nominee is should be able to clearly articulate why the next president should be a Democrat.  It's not like the Republicans haven't given the Democrats much to work with, either.  

Not once have I ever gotten the feeling that Barack Obama wants to be president to represent and lead according to the beliefs of the Democratic Party. Or that the Democratic Party has the ideas to move this country forward after the most catastrophic presidency in modern times.

Yet I have heard nothing from him about why Democrats are the better choice.  Enough with the bipartisan kumbayah happyness.  Give voters a reason to choose a Democrat over a Republican.  Because the Republican nominee, whoever that will be, will sure as shit remind voters why they shouldn't vote for a Democrat.

In comparison Howard Dean--the candidate Obama is most frequently compared to--proudly said he was "from the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."

I'd like to vote for an actual Democrat in 2008.


by KimPossible on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:02:55 PM EST

Re: John Edwards On What It Means To Be A Democrat (none / 0)

How wonderful that we have candidates like Edwards and Obama..I truly believe the difference is that having gone through 2004 Edwards is more free to truly pursue his vision in a specific manner. I don't doubt for a second Obama's heart and mind.
It just seems he is being reined in.
In regard to specifics there really is no other candidate in either party who is close to Edwards.
We are not just looking for someone to represent us as a nation but someone with the political courage to front how exactly  they will do this...(note...there is a reason MoveOn members voted on the Edwards energy message..)

I still ask...Isn't it possible (maybe even probable)that no Candidate comes to Denver with more than 50%?


"If you want to end war and stuff, you gotta sing loud" ...Arlo Guthrie
by DenverD on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:33:27 PM EST

Obama not stating the word "democrat" (none / 0)

Who gives a fuck whether he didnt mentioned the word "democrat"..He was giving a speech about poverty and poor people dont give a flying fuck about democrats or republicans..They just want to be helped and couldnt care less about some partisan rhetorics.

Frankly, i myself dont give a fuck about party label...Politics has become turned into a sports where partisans care much more about their parties then the people that they're suppose to represent.

Obama(P-IL)  The P stand for People...He's running as the people's candidate,not as partisan's democrats that only wants to bash the other team and score points...This kind of shit doeswnt do shit to help the people since both party are too busy shooting at each other.


by JaeHood on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 10:44:54 PM EST

Re: "democrat" (3.00 / 2)

because it's not either he gives a speech about poverty or he's a democrat- it's both.


by bruh21 on Wed Jul 18, 2007 at 11:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "democrat" (3.00 / 1)

The Democratic brand will grow if we nominate a candidate who understands that we define our brand; our brand does not define us.  


by Todd Bennett on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "democrat" (3.00 / 2)

yeah, look that new age shit make work for you, but lived through the clinton era, and the dot com bubble. here's how real branding works- you mention the name- if you don't mention the name- no one associates it with you. more importantly no one associates the name with the values you mention. that doesn't sound as new age, but it bit more closer to reality.


by bruh21 on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 12:23:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama and being a Democrat (3.00 / 1)

If a candidate doesn't want to identify with a specific party - in a country where there are only 2 principle parties to choose from when running for the highest office in the land (like it or not), then let that candidate run as an independent or for 2008, join the Unity bipartisan group and run with someone from the other party as the vice-presidential candidate.

As long as this country has 2 parties, and as long as a candidate is trying to become the nominee from the Democratic Party, he or she better want to be identified as a Democrat.


by edgery on Thu Jul 19, 2007 at 01:04:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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