More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls

Back on Monday, I posted the Democratic results of new IVR Iowa and South Carolina polls released by Public Policy Polling. Now, for some strange reason, they have not placed the results of these polls on their website. Somewhat understandably, the lack of public information on these polls has led, among other poll aggregator sites, Real Clear Politics to not include these polls in their averages. So, I'd like to perform something of a public service by posting the internal information on these polls right here:

Public Policy Polling Iowa Poll and Public Policy Polling South Carolina Poll

You can see for yourself that these polls are in fact, quite real. They also have a lot of interesting information other than the trial heat results. First, on the Democratic side, base discontent with Democratic Congressional action on Iraq is massive. Look at question #3 on page #2:
Do you think Congress is doing a good job concerning the war in Iraq, or should they be doing more to end the war? If you think congress is doing a good job, press 1. If they should be doing more, press 2. If you don't know, press 3.

1. Should be doing more: 83%
2. Good job: 10%
3. Don't know: 6%
This poll was taken post-capitulation. Memo to Joe Klein and Mark Udall: 83% of Democratic caucus-goers in Iowa think Democrats should be doing more, not just us mean bloggers. It is also worth noting, on page 5, that Clinton does worse, 16%, among those who think Congress should be doing more, than she does among the other 17% who think they are doing a good job or "don't know," 22%. While I appreciate the inclination for LieberDems to blame everything progressive that any Democrat does on his or her fear of blogger's wrath, I'm prone to believe that Democratic candidates for President are more wary of the wrath of Iowa caucus-goers than they are of me and my colleagues.

Second, on the Republican side, Rudy McRomney appears to be a real person in the minds of many Republicans. Looking at the South Carolina poll, Fred Thompson holds a surprising and large lead:

Thompson: 27%
Romney: 16%
McCain: 15%
Giuliani: 14%
Gringrich: 11%
Other Candidate: 6%
Undecided: 11%

This is the first South Carolina poll conducted entirely following Fred Thompson's entrance into the campaign, so it is possible that the poll is simply picking up a post-announcement bump. However, I think Thompson's support is representative more of how the question was asked:
If the caucus were held today which candidate would you support? If you support Newt Gingrich, press 1 on your keypad now. If Rudy Giuliani, press 2. If John McCain, press 3. If Mitt Romney, press 4. If Fred Thompson, press 5. If you support one of the other candidates, press 6 for more selections. If you are undecided, press 7.
First, I don't think South Carolina will be a caucus for Republicans, so that could be a problem with this poll. Second, there is mounting evidence to suggest that Republican primary voters will support anyone except, at least, McCain and Giuliani, when they are given a choice and no matter who the other choices are. For example, three weeks ago four Iowa polls came out in one week. In those four polls, Fred Thompson as included three times, and Newt Gingrich was included twice. However, no matter who was included, Giuliani and McCain's numbers did not move at all. In this South Carolina poll, Thompson could simply be benefiting from being the "other" option to McCain, Giuliani and, in this state, Romney (Romney has never performed particularly well in South Carolina polls). Note, for example, that 94% of the people who chose option 6 didn't end up supporting another specific candidate, and simply appeared to have been registering their dissatisfaction with the field. It seems quite possible that a combination of a post-announcement bump, and general dissatisfaction with the well-known Republican field (aka, Rudy McRomney), quickly propelled Fred Thompson to the lead in a region, the south, that will probably serve as his base of support. It is quite funny, actually, that the longstanding Republican practice of foregrounding their few, prominent "moderates" in forums like nationally televised speeches at the RNC has now resulted in all well-known Republicans being unsatisfactory to the Republican base. Republican mendacity about their party's true identity has resulted in massive base resentment.

Also, Romney released an internal poll today almost precisely verifying the PPP polling on the Republican Iowa caucuses. I wonder if Giuliani and McCain have any chance in Iowa at all anymore. Given their mutual abandonment of the Ames straw poll, it seems doubtful.



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Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

Iowa Republicans swing massively hard core Republican.  W, as the only "moderate" in the caucus" won but was actually defeated by the combo of three wingers (Steve Forbes, Alan Keyes, Gary Bauer).  Romney looks poised to grab the conservative mantle in Iowa as well as being the establishment candidate.  That's an unbeatable combination.

What made Rudy throw in the towel when skipping Iowa doesn't work?  He's obviously trying to pull a Reagan/Bush I (1988) and Dole.  The problem is, of course that the current prominence of the straw poll gives Romney a huge, long-term boost for the bulk of the nominating season.  Rudy claimed the problem was money.  That the straw poll would cost $3 million to compete in.  If he can't come up with that kind of scratch now, he's in a world of hurt.  After all, he left the first quarter with as much cash on hand as Romney.  McCain was already starved for cash and hurting.

I can't see Romney.  Unlike Bush II he's super stiff on TV and prone to serious gaffes (stuff that is nuts but he believes or pretends to).  He must be much stronger one-on-one than on TV and given his record of corporate success that is quite likely.  Giuliani, if he'd skip some of the pander nonsense to the right wing red meat crowd, is a lot more personable.  Sure, he's kind of nuts but Nixon was a lot more nuts and he was able to keep it under wraps.


by David Kowalski on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 11:58:21 AM EST

They also have a 6/4 NC poll I hadn't seen (none / 0)

Only found this on their blog

pdf

Edwards 30% Clinton 26% Obama 22%
Thompson 37% Giuliani 25% Romney 14% McCain 14%

Also Gov and Lt Gov numbers


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:16:46 PM EST

Re: They also have a 6/4 NC poll I hadn't seen (none / 0)

Wow.  The NC race THAT close between Edwards and Clinton in his home state?    That is actually pretty big news.  Thanks for pointing it out, IVR Polls.


by georgep on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They also have a 6/4 NC poll I hadn't seen (none / 0)

Not really that different from the previous month's poll. All three of them actually look like they could pull out a victory here, although since Edwards has the endorsement of just about every Democratic politico in the state, I think the money has to be on him. However, except for the March poll by Public Policy Polling, his lead hasn't gone above 10%.

Taking a wider-lense view, the home-state advantage may be less this year. The last Illinois poll is from January, so it's doubtful if it's still accurate, but it was 36% Obama to 30% Clinton (everybody else way way back). Dodd hasn't polled above 14% in Conneticut and the latest poll (including Gore, who appears from an unscientific glance to draw heavily from Dodd's supporters) has him back in fifth on 8%. In Delaware in March, Biden only got 21% and it's quite possible he's in third there now. Richardson's doing somewhat better, but his leads in NM aren't blowouts (10% and 6% in front of Clinton). Vilsack's home advantage didn't ever give him polling numbers above 18%.

The exception here is Clinton, who tends to lead by 20-30%. However, since she's also the national leader, that's not entirely home advantage.

It looks to me like local hero status is probably only worth about 10-20%, depending on the candidate and how much attention the state gets.

If anybody wants to point out any errors in my reasoning, I'll try to order my arguments a little better and throw this together into a diary.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They also have a 6/4 NC poll I hadn't seen (none / 0)

WOW

What about the PPS poll for IA:

Edwards 31
Obama 17
Clinton 17

I have seen Edwards bloggers here say they don't believe Edwards is ahead by that much, but I have never heard a Clinton Blogger say anything about the ARG poll which showed Clinton ahead of Edwards 34 to 20 in their first poll of IA in either late Dec. OR EARLY jAN.


by BDM on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 02:39:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

RCP also has not included IVR Polls' recent Florida poll, which is every bit as real as the PPP polls.  Maybe they exclude IVR polls in general?    


by georgep on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:20:37 PM EST

Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

Hey, I'm new. Got no problem if they want to wait until they see a little track record. Pretty sure RCP uses Rasmussen, so probably not excluding all IVR.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

I think the below really represents the anti-war strong feeling in IA:

You can see for yourself that these polls are in fact, quite real. They also have a lot of interesting information other than the trial heat results. First, on the Democratic side, base discontent with Democratic Congressional action on Iraq is massive. Look at question #3 on page #2:
Do you think Congress is doing a good job concerning the war in Iraq, or should they be doing more to end the war? If you think congress is doing a good job, press 1. If they should be doing more, press 2. If you don't know, press 3.

1. Should be doing more: 83%

  1. Good job: 10%
  2. Don't know: 6%
This poll was taken post-capitulation. Memo to Joe Klein and Mark Udall: 83% of Democratic caucus-goers in Iowa think Democrats should be doing more, not just us mean bloggers. It is also worth noting, on page 5, that Clinton does worse, 16%, among those who think Congress should be doing more, than she does among the other 17% who think they are doing a good job or "don't know," 22%. While I appreciate the inclination for LieberDems to blame everything progressive that any Democrat does on his or her fear of blogger's wrath, I'm prone to believe that Democratic candidates for President are more wary of the wrath of Iowa caucus-goers than they are of me and my colleagues.


by BDM on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 12:28:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

Not exactly related, but I thought I would share some interesting info from the Winthrop/ETV poll.

Even though 48% of SC voters (Rep. and Dem.) describe themselves as pro-life, 83.5% believe that a woman should be able to obtain a legal abortion in some circumstances. See here

This would likely surprise many people, however I haven't seen it mentioned.


by DPW on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 01:39:59 PM EST

Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

The quotes below were taken from the Radio Iowa Blog on O. Kay Henderson's interview with the Chairman of the Iowa Republican Party.  This is in reference to former Congressman Jim Nussle's speaking out about the August Republican Straw Poll in Ames that will be passed over by Guiliani. Henderson was asking about Nussle's future in elected office in Iowa.

"Well, I don't think he's made any friends today.  This event helps us pay for Caucus Night and all those activities, plus it helps us fund our state house and senate races.  That's how this event was created years and years ago and this year, much more than that, it was going to be the showcase of the 'big tent' and it was going to be that event brings all of these people in.  Every one of these candidates has a coalition that they could bring in that maybe otherwise wouldn't come so, yeah, it's a kick in the shins, or a little higher, right to the Iowa Republican Party."

Henderson:  laughter

Laudner:  "Is that going to go on the radio?"

Henderson:  "Yeah...

Hee-hee-hee.


by Riverview Lou on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 03:06:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: More On The Recent Iowa, South Carolina Polls (none / 0)

Do you think Congress is doing a good job concerning the war in Iraq, or should they be doing more to end the war? If you think congress is doing a good job, press 1. If they should be doing more, press 2. If you don't know, press 3.

1. Should be doing more: 83% 2. Good job: 10% 3. Don't know: 6%

So the Democrats are super upset at their leaders over not doing what they expected on Iraq, and the Republicans are super upset at their leaders over not doing what they expected on Immigration. I don't think I actually expected the election would be going this way by now, though maybe I should have.

I do kinda wonder. While the Democrats and Republicans are condensing into single-issue blocks, what exactly are Independents expecting of the government right now?

Meh.

That is a really good question, though. The "should be doing more" question. I'd be really curious to see whether there is a poll somewhere that asks that same question of a general audience rather than just caucus-going Democrats, so we can compare and see whether the Democrats are any different from the general public in this respect.


by Silent sound on Thu Jun 07, 2007 at 04:14:50 PM EST


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