Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages

I'm a big fan of Pollster.com, and so when they finally released graphs and trendlines on the 2008 early states back on Monday, I couldn't let my hiatus from blogging stand in the way. Here are my Democratic and Republican Nomination "at a glance" tables, entirely utilizing Pollster.com estimated polling trends (for some background on the Pollster.com trends, see here and here):

Democratic Nomination, At a Glance, June 21
Polling estimates taken from Pollster.com
State Est. Date Clinton Obama Edwards Richardson
Net Avail Cash Mar 31 $23.4M $17.7M $9.6M $5.0M
Iowa Jan 07 21.0% 19.1% 25.0% 10.8%
New Hampshire Jan 15 33.4% 19.3% 16.4% 9.1%
Nevada Jan 19 36.0% 16.5% 14.0% 5.5%
South Carolina Jan 22 26.7% 32.0% 11.9% 1.3%
Florida Jan 29 37.9% 18.7% 13.3% 3.9%
National Feb 05 34.0% 22.1% 12.2% 3.0%

The most interesting graph for Democrats is in Iowa, which shows Edwards, Clinton and Obama all slightly, and slowly, trending down. The big beneficiary is obviously Richardson, who clearly seems to be a player in Iowa now. I still have to wonder what will happen to the campaign if Clinton finishes in third, or even fourth, in Iowa. Will it be enough to eliminate her advantage in New Hampshire, Nevada, or national polls? I honestly have no idea, which is why Iowa remains the most interesting element of the Democratic horserace right now.

Republican Nomination, At a Glance, June 21
Polling estimates taken from Pollster.com
State Est. Date Giuliani Romney F. Thompson McCain
Net Avail Cash Mar 31 $9.7M $9.1M NA $2.6M
Iowa Jan 07 12.3% 25.8% 16.8% 9.4%
New Hampshire Jan 15 17.6% 27.9% 10.9% 20.9%
Nevada Jan 19 32.5% 15.0% 13.0% 18.5%
South Carolina Jan 22 19.1% 12.1% 24.7% 7.6%
Florida Jan 29 29.6% 7.7% 21.1% 12.3%
National Feb 05 26.3% 9.6% 17.3% 16.8%

Giuliani's advantage in Nevada is overstated largely due to the small number of polls in the state, as the two most recent polls out of Nevada actually average to a slight advantage for Romney. Also, as McCain craters in Iowa and South Carolina, as he falls behind Fred Thompson nationally, and as his monetary woes continue, I have dropped him to fourth place in the Republican nomination contest. He really seems to be finished. Also, while the top three on the Republican side, Giuliani, Romney, and Thompson, are difficult to separate at this point, it probably won't be long before Giuliani drops into third place. If Fred Thompson can get a nice monetary haul, and also move up in New Hampshire polls, the Republican nomination will rather surprisingly become a battle between Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson. Notably, every Democrat leads both Thompson and Romney in head-to-head poll averages, although Clinton's leads are considerably narrower than Edwards' and Obama's. Also, Thompson keeps all Dems under 50%.



Display:


Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

I'm a Clinton supporter and I'll say it...it looks like Obama is ahead in South Carolina. I don't think he'll stay ahead but as of today it looks like he's ahead. See Obama/Edwards supporters. It doesn't take that much to just admit a current fact or two.


by world dictator on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:05:33 AM EST

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

I rthink these poll's will change many times in the next few months.

Politic's is a dynamic process and not static. Just the news of Bloomberg and who knows if Gore gets into the race. Thus the dynamics can change again.


by BDM on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:15:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (3.00 / 1)

Your observaton that Edwards, Clinton, and Obama have slowly been trending slightly down in Iowa supports my long held contention that the unusually early "kick off" for the supposedly serious phase of the 2008 primary season posed real risks of early over exposure for our early leading contenders.

I continually have argued that virtually all prior presidential primary campaigns have featured burn out amung early leaders well before the first votes are ever cast. The classic term for this is "peaking too early". Yet this time, virtually everone said it will be different.

I have heard the argument given that this time it will be different because our early leaders are unusually formidable. Or it will be different this time becaue the media is much more powerful and will deny any one other than those three the exposure they need to compete. Or it will be different this time because elections are so expensive, and no one else can raise enough money with those three already in the race. Or it will be different this time because all of the good campaign staffers have been snapped up by the big three.

I heard those arguments, but I never accepted them. I stuck with the old conventional wisdom that polls mean virtually nothing in January, March, June or August of the year before the first primary. In fact, one can usually predict who will not become our nominee by eliminating those at the top of such early polls. I think this race is still wide open, and that includes the possibility of one or more new candidates still entering this race.


Blogging at http://www.aleftturnforclark.com
by Tom Rinaldo on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:16:58 AM EST

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

2008 is a much difference race than 2004 because of the front loaded system. Iowa will be about the 16th state to actually start  voting because of early voting in many other states that will have primary dates a few days after Iowa. There is also the possibility states will continue to move the dates earlier and earlier with some even possibly voting this year such as in December. We are 6 months to 1 year ahead of where things were in 2004.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

Rob that is not true IA will most likely move up it's caucus as will NH.


by BDM on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:31:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

I disagree strongly with your contention that "We are 6 months to 1 year ahead of where things were in 2004." That is far too radical an attempted adjustment to compensate for changed circumstances. I would couner that a 6 weeks to 3 month shift is far more accurate.

Furthermore, frontloading favors momentum as well as favoring organziation, as there are reasons to suspect (supported by the 2004 experience) that the new hyper media attention to presidential politics will make perceived momentum at the time of the first contests a bigger variable than organziation in determining subsequent outcomes.

There is no historical track record to suggest that a "snap shot" taken of a presidential primary campaign taken 60 days prior to the first votes being cast, let alone 7 months prior, is remotely a reliable indicator of what the real results will likely look like once actual votes start getting counted.


Blogging at http://www.aleftturnforclark.com
by Tom Rinaldo on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (3.00 / 1)

There seems to be a certain tension in your argument. Polls now mean nothing, but the trend shows that something bad is happening to Clinton/Obama/Edwards. I don't think we can say anything about the trend yet. Let's see what happens when people start paying closer attention and plenty of ads start hitting.

I'm not sure that prior nominees Bush, Gore, Mondale, Bush or even Kerry prove your point about people at the top of the polls being eliminated. Nationally, Kerry was about where Edwards is now in June 2003 - third.

I agree with you that the polls now don't matter so much, at least not directly. One of the second or third tier players could catch fire and shake things up, although I admit I can't imagine how. Then again, if I could, it wouldn't be much of a shake-up. And someone else could enter the race - but I don't think the organizational and financial advantages that candidates are building now are insignificant. After all, when Dean faltered in 2004, it wasn't Clark who was able to take advantage.


by Dave Thomer on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 12:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

I see the logical point you are making. Probably most significant is that all three of our leading candiates seem to be trending down, rather than only ups and downs going on between them. Also I factor in the rise of Richardson, and the rise of Gore when he gets included in polls also, as further evidence that earlier pundit efforts to frame the race for the 2008 Democratic nomination as an essentially closed contest between "the big three" was premature.

Kery was third in that snapshot you mention, but not grouped closely with the front runners, and later he almost fell out of contention completely before staking everything on a come from behind strategy in Iowa. Certainly it was not a predictable glide path that he folowed.

Actually when Dean faltered in 2004 it WAS Clark who was able to take advantage. Clark climbed from single digits in NH polls in December to a statistical margin of error tie for first place in with Dean in New Hampshire by mid January. It was only when Dean got essentially knocked out of the race in Iowa that Clark was unable to take advantage, because he could not claim to be one of the victors who knocked out Dean, since Clark was not competing in Iowa. Kerry and Edwards earned the headlines and momentum, and even Clark edging out Edwwards for third the following week in NH couldn't change that.

It wasn't money that stopped Clark. He raised the most of anyone in January, and he had organizations in place in multiple states that delivered him 3 second places finishes to Kerry (including New Mexico and Arizona) that far outstripped the votes gained by the third place finishers there. Edwards however won South Carolina which solidified his hold on the title as Kerry's main adversary.  

The lesson from 2004 was; if you enter after the point where you can organize a campaign in all of the first wave of contests, you likely are entering too late. But Clark 04 is a poor base line point of reference to apply, because Clark was building his campaign then up from the literal bottom with no prior political foundation whatsoever to build upon. It was that reality, more than the literal date of entry, that factored strongest into his campaign's political decision to skip NH and concentrate on Iowa.


Blogging at http://www.aleftturnforclark.com
by Tom Rinaldo on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 12:45:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

Before anyone else points it out for me, what I meant to say in my last sentance above was...

"that factored strongest into his campaign's political decision to skip Iowa and concentrate on NH."

...NOT the other way around as it reads as originally posted. I must have fallen victim to a wishful thinking freudian slip, lol.


Blogging at http://www.aleftturnforclark.com
by Tom Rinaldo on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 01:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

I see the logical point you are making. Probably most significant is that all three of our leading candiates seem to be trending down, rather than only ups and downs going on between them. Also I factor in the rise of Richardson, and the rise of Gore when he gets included in polls also, as further evidence that earlier pundit efforts to frame the race for the 2008 Democratic nomination as an essentially closed contest between "the big three" was premature.

Richardson's advertising in Iowa, right?

Gore's a unique case, and I haven't seen any pundit saying that Gore entering would not shake things up. But I don't think that's dissatisfaction at the big three, I think that's a measure of Gore's stature and wealth.

Kery was third in that snapshot you mention, but not grouped closely with the front runners, and later he almost fell out of contention completely before staking everything on a come from behind strategy in Iowa. Certainly it was not a predictable glide path that he folowed.

He was at least as close to Lieberman nationally as Edwards is to Clinton now.

Actually when Dean faltered in 2004 it WAS Clark who was able to take advantage. Clark climbed from single digits in NH polls in December to a statistical margin of error tie for first place in with Dean in New Hampshire by mid January. It was only when Dean got essentially knocked out of the race in Iowa that Clark was unable to take advantage, because he could not claim to be one of the victors who knocked out Dean, since Clark was not competing in Iowa. Kerry and Edwards earned the headlines and momentum, and even Clark edging out Edwwards for third the following week in NH couldn't change that.

Clark didn't win. That's what I mean by being unable to take advantage. (And he couldn't even beat a weakened Dean in NH, anyway.) Whatever he did in the polls - well, we can chalk that up to the aforementioned point about how unreliable polls are. And whatever reasons you want to give for that, the fact is that Clark's late entry and subsequent inability to get an organization going in the state that mattered put him at a disadvantage compared to the candidates who had been out in the field six to twelve months prior.

I was a Clark 2004 supporter who wanted to see him make a big push this time around. I'd even be happy if he got in and proved me wrong this time around, even though I'm supporting Obama at the moment. But I just don't see how the pieces fit together for him.


by Dave Thomer on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 01:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

We clearly agree more than we disagree, and at the end of the day we could find out that we don't disagree much at all. Kerry's numbers bounced around throughout the 2004 Primary campaign, so did Lieberman's, and Gephardt's and Dean's, and Edward's, and Clark too also after he entered. Meanwhiile we are over 6 months away from the first actual voting for 2008. Way too early to make assumptions about who will reamain and/or who can not become viable before the actual votes finally get counted.

But I do want to point out that Kerry and Dean were always New Hampshire's default favorite sons, there was always strong support for Dean in NH, and he began to gather some sympathy votes at the end also because of the way the media kept harping on the supposed "Dean Scream". Clark did come in third in New Hampshire when the actual votes were counted, those aren't poll numbers. But the bottom line is Clark entered too late, given his individual circumstances, to compete in Iowa as well as in NH, and that did ultimately doom his candidacy.

I can conjor up scenarios for you that show Clark still viable for 2008, but all of them start with the assumption that Al Gore, when all is said and done, chooses not to run. And I will grant that it is an easier case to make for Al Gore still winning the nomination. But the point to repeat is that at this date we are looking at reality from 6 months out, which history shows is a very flawed view point. After the fact it is always easy to explain how early pundits got it so wrong, and each time there are different reasons, the only real constant is that early pundits usually get it wrong.


Blogging at http://www.aleftturnforclark.com
by Tom Rinaldo on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 02:19:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

Hey, Chris.

The RCP poll averages show the following:

Iowa                    Edwards    +2.3
New Hampshire   Clinton     +13.6
South Carolina     Clinton     +2.8
Florida                 Clinton     +14.8
National               Clinton     +13.2

Any thoughts on the differences between Pollster and RCP averages?


by BigBoyBlue on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:22:56 AM EST

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

Read the links that Chris provides above to read Myster Pollster's methodology.


by BDM on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 11:36:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

in reality the GOP nomination is coming (none / 0)

down to wehther Thompson is semi-competent on the campaign trail, he's barely behind Rudy in Fla and not far off Romney in Iowa, he will win every southern state going away and even non southern states have a huge % of pro-gun socially conservative voters as part of thier Republican base. Romney will not be able to hold himoff and Rudy never really had much of a chance because at some point the race will be seen as a 2 person fight and Rudy has too many primary voters he can't get outside blue america. McCain is simply done as well.
Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 12:36:44 PM EST

Re: in reality the GOP nomination is coming (none / 0)

He isn't done as lone as he isn't out. It's sad how we all always grasp back to the last election, but just weeks before Iowa Kerry in the single digits and had to take out a hefty loan simply to survive.

A couple of weeks later he was unbeatable.

McCain is experienced and known, He's still got a reputation he can rebuild. If one of the other falters a lot of people might give him a second chance. It's unlikely but it has happened before.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 02:23:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: in reality the GOP nomination is coming (none / 0)

It will be Thompson vs. Giuliani, not Thompson vs. Romney. A Romney nomination is a pure pipe dream.

The GOP voters are not going to select a weak flip flopper, let alone one who is a Mormon.

I think Thompson is more likely to be the nominee than Giuliani, if Thompson is competent on the campaign trail, as you say. But dismissing Giuliani is foolish. He has severe strength in too many high delegate vital states.


by Gary Kilbride on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 05:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

Is McCain really ay 10 and 8% in Iowa and South Carolina? We are really going to win in 2008.


by ND1979 on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 02:03:10 PM EST

Re: Pollster.com Early State Poll Averages (none / 0)

The important question is what happens when the caucuses come and Richardson doesn't hit 15%. His supporters will be in position to decide who wins Iowa. Has anyone seen second choice figures for Richardson supporters (and who do people think Richardson would send his supporters to?).


by js noble on Thu Jun 21, 2007 at 08:41:49 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.