Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Glance

To provide some more context on the 2008 election, I thought it was about time to compliment my Democratic Nomination At A Glance chart with a Republican Nomination At A Glance chart:

Republican Nomination, At a Glance, June 12
State polls are all May 08-June 12, except Nevada. Last update: June 12, 12:30 pm eastern
State Est. Date # Polls Romney Giuliani McCain F. Thompson
Net Avail Cash Mar 31 Q1 $9.1M $9.7M $2.6M --
Iowa Jan 07 6 22.0% 16.8% 17.3% 9.8%
New Hampshire Jan 15 4 28.8% 19.2% 20.8% 8.2%
Nevada Jan 19 4 13.3% 30.3% 17.8% 10.0%
South Carolina Jan 22 4 11.5% 18.5% 19.5% 14.8%
Florida Jan 29 5 12.0% 30.6% 13.2% 15.4%
National Feb 05 8 10.5% 26.0% 15.8% 16.5%

As the Green Papers notes, these dates are very tentative. Right now, the South Carolina Republican primary is scheduled for February 2nd, but I bet it moves up. Also, Republicans have not yet announced a Nevada caucus on January 19th, but they are strongly considering it. Further, Wyoming seems to be holding its caucus on January 22nd, but there are no polls and I'm not sure anyone will notice.

No matter what the primary calendar looks like, a quick look at this chart reveals just how confused the Republican nomination process is right now. Romney holds Iowa and New Hampshire, but trails Giuliani badly in both Florida and the national polls. The two are just about even in money. McCain, despite still clinging to a narrow lead in South Carolina, pretty much looks like he is done here. He is well behind in money, in national polls, and in most early state polls. Thompson clearly has an opportunity, but he also clearly hasn't shot to the top. Just compare this chaos to the seemingly orderly Democratic nomination:

Democratic Nomination, At a Glance, June 12
State polls are all May 08-June 12, except Nevada. Last update: June 12, 12:30 pm eastern
State Est. Date # Polls Clinton Obama Edwards Richardson
Net Avail Cash Mar 31 Q1 $23.4M $17.7M $9.6M $5.0M
Iowa Jan 07 6 22.8% 19.8% 27.7% 8.3%
New Hampshire Jan 15 5 32.4% 20.0% 15.2% 9.2%
Nevada Jan 19 4 34.0% 17.5% 13.8% 5.0%
South Carolina Jan 22 4 30.3% 26.0% 17.5% --
Florida Jan 29 6 36.0% 20.7% 15.8% --
National--High Feb 05 5 38.2% 28.0% 13.0% --
National--Low Feb 05 7 33.9% 24.3% 11.0% --

All the same notes from yesterday's poll still apply. It certainly is unusual to see Republicans so much more chaotic than Democrats. In recent years leaders of the Republican Party have made pleasing their base their number one priority, while Democratic leaders are more prone to ignore their base. Right now, if I had to guess, the most likely outcome appears to be Clinton defeating Romney in the general election. However, there is a long, long time to go, and by "most likely" I mean something like a 5-10% chance. With most candidates lacking much "hard" support, with the primary calendars still in flux, with new financial reports due in three weeks, with early state poll numbers still showing highly varied results, and with the still possible entry of more candidates in the campaign, there should be enough chaos to go around on both sides.



Display:


Re: Republican (none / 0)

I undesrstand the Black vote in Florida began to break by like 30 points toward Obama - even though he is still way down there.  Does this mean the South Carolina is likely going to show him with a lead soon?


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 12:28:08 PM EST

Re: Republican (none / 0)

Obama's leading in the most recent SC poll:

Check it out here

I know he's starting to organize pretty well down there. Does anyone know where Edwards is at in SC? He won last time and its his birth state (and he's the guy who's supposed to be able to compete in the South and Rocky Mtn states). It would be embarassing for him to stay at such low levels of support down there.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:24:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican (none / 0)

Edwards is not doing too well in SC so far, which is a bit surprising, since it neighbors NC and is his birthplace.

His support is at 19%,  Clinton's is at 30%, Obama's is at 23.3% in the aggregate.  

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/sc/south_carolina_democra tic_primary-234.html#polls


by georgep on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:01:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican (none / 0)

yeah, i've seen the polls, but i mean what his organization is like, or if he's going to try as hard as he is in iowa to compete? it seems like if he wins iowa he'll need a follow-up act somewhere before February 5th, and SC seems like it would be the most logical place for him.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 01:00:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You know I've (none / 0)

been a Romney skeptic, but looking at the schedule, he could probbaly weather a defeat in South Carolina and still make it, especially if Michigan, where he has a base of support, moves up.


by david mizner on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 12:48:19 PM EST

no, Fred Thompson will erase his lead (none / 0)

in the early states.

Evangelicals are not going to nominate a Mormon from Massachusetts. They would rather pick a Hollywood phony.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, Fred Thompson will erase his lead (none / 0)

I agree that Freddie the Fake is looking like the man to beat, although an under-discussed requirement in these things is stamina, and Freddie is Fat. Fake Freddy, the Fat Lobbyist.


by david mizner on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:33:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, Fred Thompson will erase his lead (none / 0)

lobbyist will be a great word for us to throw at him if he's their guy


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:25:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, Fred Thompson will erase his lead (none / 0)

I wouldn't count Romney out. He's been doing great with money, and he's the only one in the top tier of the GOP race without a divorce (including F. Thompson), which may help him overcome the Mormon thing with Christian conservatives. These people have been sold out by people pretending to care about their interests for a long time--even though Romney flipped on some of their important issues, at least he's living the kind of lifestyle that they'll want to see from the candidate they support.

Romney is definitely the guy to beat right now in New Hampshire, and he looks great in Iowa, too--Rudy and McCain are skipping the Ames straw poll because of his strength.


Never separate the life you live from the words you speak. -Sen. Paul Wellstone (Minnesota)
by Max Fletcher on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

I know that you talk about this all the time but I would encourage you to make sure that all the front pagers at MYDD know what the national high and national low averages actually mean.  Then maybe they will include that as context whenever they want to discuss a breaking poll.

thanks


by aiko on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 12:53:27 PM EST

Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Women with a high school diploma or less strongly prefer Hillary for the Democratic nomination.

I clearly remember reading (but don't remember where) that this is THE SAME DEMOGRAPHIC that decidedly shifted to Bush in the 2004 election - many of them had voted for Gore in 2000.  In other words, they gave us Bush in 2004, and they are about to give us Hillary as the Democratic nominee in 2008. The race will be Hillary v. Fred Thompson.

And Thompson will easily beat her, as she will not even win in all the states that Kerry carried.  Bye, bye Supreme Court.

Here's a good idea:  Why don't we nominate someone who is from the Northeast and is personally cold and is cerebral?  Sure has been the winning ticket in the past for Democrats!

Folks who watch action/adventure movies know that all problems can be easily solved if a person is just tough and decisive enough.  Fred Thompson has made a career from ACTING tough.  Fred Thompson will be our next President.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:05:50 PM EST

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Fred doesn't stand a chance.  Look at him.  Fred looks half dead.  Futhermore, once the buzz fades - and it will, it always does - he will just be another candidate and probably not a very good one.   He isn't all that great on the stump.  He isn't all that experienced.  Plus, the knock on him is that he is lazy.  

Fred loses to Edwards or Hillary by 3 to 5%.  


by dpANDREWS on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you're kidding, right? (none / 0)

Which state carried by Bush would Hillary win?
 (crickets)
John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:21:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ohio, Nevada, Colorado (none / 0)

... for starters

The maybe Iowa, New Mexico, and Florida.  Who knows.

I have seen some polls that show Hillary doing very well in Ohio and the Ohio GOP is a total train wreck right now - plus Democrats now control all the important statewide offices.   No Blackwell this time around.


by dpANDREWS on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:27:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohio, Nevada, Colorado (none / 0)

Hillary would get absolutely creamed in the so-called Cow Counties of Nevada.  According to Harry Reid, it is the overwhelming R vote in these rural counties that cause D's to so reliably lose in Nevada.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NV is a bit tough for Democrats this turn (none / 0)

But it is trending.  On the plus side their GOP Gov has a lower approval rating than Bush.

I think Ohio and Colorado are excellent opportunties to go 'D' this time around.


by dpANDREWS on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohio, Nevada, Colorado (none / 0)

As someone from Nevada who has worked on a successful statewide race I'd say you are wrong.Why?

1. Nevada is a purple state because while we have the rurals we also have one of the fastest growing metropolis areas in the US in Las Vegas. Its ironic that you bring up Reid because he always loses the rurals and wins big in southern Nevada.

2. Bill Clinton picked up Nevada twice

3. Nevada has an incredibly large organized union base.

4. CD2, the second most conservative congressional district in Congress having never elected a democrat since its existed, nearly elected Jill Derby during the 2006 midterms. The Republican they did elect happens to be a very moderate republican.

5. Nevadans aren't conservative as much as they are libertarian.


by world dictator on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ohio, Nevada, Colorado (none / 0)

I thought TX 11 was the second most Republican congressional district.  Is "second most conservative" the same thing as "second most Republican?"  The most Republican is Chris Cannon's in Utah.

BTW, other than Harry Reid, how many statewide elected D's are there in Nevada?


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're kidding, right? (none / 0)

How about Florida and Ohio?

Bleep your (crickets)


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

I want to see the Obama/Thompson debate is would be Nixon/Kennedy all over again.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:22:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Was Bush such a sterling campaigner in 2000?


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:31:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If the internet were then what it is today (none / 0)

Gore would have won.

The media largely ignored Bush's gaffes.  They also largely fell for whatever the GOP peddles on Gore.  

With the strength of the left on the net today and with YouTube I think Bush would have had a harder time.


by dpANDREWS on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:40:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If the internet were then what it is today (none / 0)

I agree.  We are starting to see some early signs that the MSM is getting religion.  Would have never happen without the blogs holding their feet to the fire.

Of course, we had the blogs in 2004 and they were ineffective against the Swift Boaters.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If the internet were then what it is today (none / 0)

But the blogs in 2004 weren't what they are now.  Did anyone even dream of taking on HoJo in 2004?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:52:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rasmussin: Thompson tied (none / 0)

According to the latest Rasmussen Poll, Rudy and Fred are tied at 24%, with Romney and McCain in the 2nd tier at 11%.  I'm thinking that if Fred can show some serious dough raised on June 30, Fred's gonna run away with this.  

Thompson has gotta be Rudy's worst nightmare: a candidate with real conservative cred AND Law and Order (TM) cred.


Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!
by brooklyngreenie on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:21:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

I tend to agree it's been 6 months of Hillary getting great press about how  qualified, strong and experienced she is and her national ratings are either the same or worse. She could win the general but thiers a greater chance that she's DOA to any competent GOP campaign, remember that candidate immediately after securing the nomination will mae the race about being a change from BOTH CLINTON AND BUSH, that seems ridiculous to us but to nonpartisons that argument will be extremely powerful. So far the primary debate has been on Hillary's terms with much more made of qualifications and debating skills instead of who can unite the country and be the best leader for the democratic party going into the make or break 2008 cycle and part of that debate is Hillary's
terrable numbers as percieved leader of our party.
Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:27:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What great press? (3.00 / 1)

It's been six months of Hillary changes her voice when she reading a poem!!!! Hillary can't sing!!!! Bill will sink her. And lets not forget the two attack books out on her.

Her great press only exists in your imagination. She's gets just as  much attacked as any candidate. Probably more. And while other candidates who had that sort of attack aimed at them dropped a lot Hillary didn't.

As I said else where these comments like yours show why she would be a formidable general election candidate. People are desensitized to attacks on Clinton. They tune those attacks out.

Any "competent GOP campaign" will have more effect on Obama and Edwards because then they can use their expertise on swift boating to more effect.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Thompson is a mirage thought up by the people across the aisle that brought you the current crop of republicans.

He'll run as a "true" "grassroot" republican. The republicans are doing badly because the american people are sick off "true" "grassroot" republicans He'll get less votes then Goldwater.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

You must not live in a Red State.  Do you think Hillary will carry ANY states in the South?


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:13:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

No, you are right, I don't (nor do I live in a blue state. I'm writing from the Netherlands.)

And yes, I do. I think Hillary will carry Florida and possibly Arkansas (if Bill makes it a point of honor) Hillary is a better campaigner then people give her credit for. She's experienced in convincing people who dislike her.

But what has all this to do with Fred Thompson? He wil still do terrible. Me not living in a red state will change nothing that nobody actually likes Fred but a small group of white republican men, who dislike the crop of current candidates because they're not pure enough and think Thompson is like reagan because he's also an actor.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:55:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Bill Clinton's wife's negatives have gone up since she started campaigning in the Spring -

Btw. Fred Thompson is refered to as Fred "Dalton" Thompson in the Law & Order credits - i think we should include the Dalton from here on out.  It makes him sound like an assassin.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 03:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (3.00 / 1)

Makes him sound whimsical. Most people forget that the Daltons were hardened criminals instead of a nice fun piece of folklore.

But as long as you'll use a name for Hillary that will actually recognizes her as an individual as well I'm all for it.

Why denigrate her? And women in general as well?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

So has Obama's - Rudy's will go up once everyone sees him as the fraud he is, and Fred is just getting attention because thats who the super conservatives want -- And i doubt the rest of the country wants what the super conservatives want.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 06:34:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

but Obama's have been a movement from non-informed... People's minds are made up about Hillary.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:14:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

LOL.  Obama's negatives are movements from the non-informed?  Really?   How come his negatives were a lot lower when people were even LESS informed, say, 3 months ago?  


by georgep on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Because as they have gotten informed his negatives have gone up - before his positives were extremely high.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 09:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Listed below is an anlysis of Clinton's GE problem:

Finally, an analysis posted earler today by Gallup's Lydia Saad examines three tests of a Clinton-Giuliani trial-heat since February and concludes:

Most notably, it appears Clinton would run no stronger among women than Kerry did in 2004 -- or, for that matter, than Al Gore did when running against Bush in 2000. On average in 2007, women prefer Clinton over Giuliani by a six-point margin -- 53% to 47%, respectively. That is not much different from women's four-point preference for Kerry over Bush in 2004, or the eight-point preference for Gore over Bush in 2000.

A Clinton-Giuliani race may be more striking for its impact on the male vote. Men favor Giuliani over Clinton by a 16-point margin in 2007. That compares with a 12-point lead among men for Bush over Kerry among 2004, and a 7-point lead among men for Bush over Gore in 2000.


by BDM on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:04:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

I fully concede that Hillary is doing worse then other candidates at the moment. But she also the only who already has normal negatives.

It's still unbalanced, Giuliani is still only known by the general public for his positive points. When his negatives have grown to normal levels for a presidential candidate and the story is still the same I'll start doubting. With six months to go I've got the patience to let her do her thing.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:15:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

normal is not unbalanced unfavorable.  Bill never recieved over 50% (43% and 49%)...Hillary is not the politician Bill is - is she going to recruit another Ross Perot?


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:24:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

A lot of people aren't he politician Bill is, yet they got higher percentages.

Bill never needed to crack 50%. He won by 5.6% and 8.5% That is a reasonably comfortable margin. If Perot hadn't run his total percentages could've been higher, but his margin would probably either stayed the same. You're implying he would've been a better politician then. It's easy to see that your argument is ridiculous.

Luckily it is quite good that your argument is ridiculous for all of us. Because, as none of any candidates whether republican or democrat is as good a politician as Bill non of them could get elected. otherwise. We'd be stuck with Bush jnr. for another 4 years!

Point is; Hillary might do better or as well as bill, she might even beat her opponent by less. The comparison isn't how she stacks up against him, the comparison is against how she will still stack up against the other people running. And I think she gets true that comparison pretty well myself.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

I hate my spell checker. true = through.

Also, image/ignore the punctuation when appropriate.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

I think polls at the time showed the Perot's support was drawn from more Republicans than Democrats - even though he himself leaned democratic.  Most Likely Hillary will need to crack 50%, unfortunetly her negative number is currently 50% (and has been going up over the past 5 months).

I don't see how my argument is ridiculous - too often we forget about Perot when longing for Bill Clinton - it was an important factor.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:06:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

I think polls at the time showed the Perot's support was drawn from more Republicans than Democrats - even though he himself leaned democratic.  Most Likely Hillary will need to crack 50%, unfortunetly her negative number is currently 50% (and has been going up over the past 5 months).

I don't see how my argument is ridiculous - too often we forget about Perot when longing for Bill Clinton - it was an important factor.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

But they were Republicans who voted not for the sitting republican president. They left him, sure for a subsatncial amount of those republicans voting for the democrat whould've been one bridge to far, but for a lot of them a democrat who was concerned with the deficit whould do.

People who leave a sitting president in an election do so because they're dissatisfied. The question was wether Perot or Clinton would have gotten them.

Your argument is that as Clinton 43% and 49% everybody who isn't as good a poll will get less. You're comparing it to a high-jump competition. If you're this atletic you'll get as high a that,
If you're more atletic, you'll jump higher (aka get a higher percentage) If you're less atletic, your percentage will suffer and you won't be able clear the bar.

Presidental election don't work that way, a lesser politican can get more votes then a better politican. because the fields different everytime, the bar isn't fixed. It's more like playing poker with an open hand, You can't bluff, but you can win the big pot with just a pair of two's.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 03:22:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

"You must not live in a Red State.  Do you think Hillary will carry ANY states in the South?"

Florida, Arkansas.

Besides southern states are overrated. How many did Gore pickup?


by world dictator on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

It is not just a matter of winning Fl and Arkansas - which would be close...it is the down-ticket races in many of the hard red states.  We don't need to excite the Republican base in these districts.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 09:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Most political scientist who have studied presidential coattails will tell you that theyre overrated.

In most of these deep red southern states the only democrats who win are already immensely popular there meaning that they're likely to win regardless of who is at the top of the ticket.


by world dictator on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 10:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Not exactly tru because we have districted races - Like Nick Lamspon in Texas, and a bunch of state reps in the same place.


"I'm LeBron, baby. I can play on this level. I got some game." Barack Obama
by gb1437a on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 12:01:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

How can you possibly say that Fred Thompson would easily beat Hillary Clinton- Some of you people are scary- Are you hearing voices too?


by Menemshasunset on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary v Fred (none / 0)

Yes I'm hearing voices.  The voices of logic and reason.

Hear me out.  It's been clear since the Days of St. Ronnie that most of the public agrees with the Democrats on the issues, and then goes to the ballot box and pulls the R lever.  In other words, most people don't vote based on where a candidate stands on the issues.  They vote for the candidate they like.

During this time, the Republicans have honed their talents for demonizing our candidates - many people don't vote FOR the R, they vote AGAINST the D.

It will be so easy for so many people to vote against Hillary.  Her negative numbers are already high, and another Republican smear campaign will only make them higher.

Fred Thompson looks and acts TOUGH.  It doesn't matter that he is fat or that his wife has fake tits or that he carried water for the Big Boys as a lobbyist in DC all those years - ordinary blue collar people will vote for him so they can vote AGAINST Hillary.  They think he has easy obvious solutions to the problems we face as a nation.

I wish this were not so.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:39:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican Nomination (none / 0)

The Republican charts don't line up with the reality of what the campaigns are doing.  Romney is going to be unchallenged in the Iowa straw poll in Ames on August 11 despite having a narrow lead over both Giuliani and McCain (around 5 points over each) and slightly less money than Rudy.  Rudy pulls out because he can't afford to spend $3 million (with $9.7 million in the bank).  McCain, somewhat reluctantly I guess, pulls out after Rudy thinking rightly that this is a place where the Romney train can be derailed.

WTF.  Why would Rudy concede the national lead for at least 5 months to Mitt Romney.  Romney is stronger in New Hampshire than he is in Iowa.  He is likely to sweep to a trifecta (straw poll, caucus, NH primary) and the nomination by acclamation with this scenario.  The only way that Rudy should pull out is if he has firm data showing that he will be badly wacked in the straw poll.  Like at least 20 points.  It must be there.  After all, the straw poll is the single thing that set up George W. Bush.  The one and only.  Made him the equal of Gore (hah) in the eyes of the media.  

Rudy obviously hopes that the media can be conned into ignoring the Ames results.  Good luck.  With what's "on the ground", Romney, with no real challenge seems to be handed the nomination.  


by David Kowalski on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:19:30 PM EST

Romney won't be unchallenged (none / 0)

in the straw poll. Conservatives are looking for someone to unite around, and Fred Thompson is looking like he will be the guy.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 01:21:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Romney won't be unchallenged (none / 0)

"in the straw poll. Conservatives are looking for someone to unite around, and Fred Thompson is looking like he will be the guy."

Maybe he should Ask Wes Clark how that worked out.


by world dictator on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican Nomination (none / 0)

Oh come on. That's not even close regarding the '99 Iowa GOP straw poll. Bush was a massive odds-on favorite for the nomination long before that straw poll. In fact, he actually went under the betting line percentage in that straw poll. There was one aggressive new offshore outfit that put up odds and Bush at 31% was significantly below his betting number. They didn't even allow wagering on odds to win the thing because Bush was considered a cinch. Many of the GOP contenders tried to spin it as a Bush defeat because more than 2/3 chose someone else.

Romney will not be the nominee. When you get this early of a start to the campaign there's significantly less follow-the-leader dynamic in terms of the second/third wave of primary states hopping aboard the Iowa and New Hampshire results. Democrats are overreacting to the '04 example. That was a very rare situation where Kerry surged simultaneous to Dean imploding with the state recital. It's more relevant to look at situations like GOP '00, where Bush was the overwhelming frontrunner and was able to overcome the landslide loss in New Hampshire. Even if Bush had lost South Carolina, he still would have been the nominee. The media loves to pretend that was the decisive state. BS. The delegate count never added up for McCain.

Similarly, I'm an Edwards supporter but I doubt he can use Iowa as a springboard. Give me widespread and long established support as opposed to wing and a momentum prayer. IMO, we're looking at Hillary or Obama vs. Giuliani or Thompson. That's assuming Thompson quickly gains traction everywhere when/if he enters. Based on comments I see on balanced sites, I think that would happen.


by Gary Kilbride on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:41:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

Hillary has maxed, based on her last name recognition, and Bill's help. According to Gallup only 8% of Dem voters have made up their mind. So it's wide open for Obama or Edwards to break through. For that matter I think Kerry was in single digits at this phase of things last time out. Hopefully Dems won't choose the least electable person in the pack, Hillary.


by cmpnwtr on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:18:00 PM EST

agree (none / 0)

the shoe to drop will be when those dem primary voters who aren't paying attention learn about Hillary's electability problem, if the media does it great, if not Obama will be forced to risk a backlash by bringing it up himself.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

Interesting how the internet folks read into these polls whatever fits their needs- how about that Gallup a week or so ago- You guys were all over it- Be objective- Hillary is not evil- She is ahead the old fashion way- by merit- She wiped the stage with those guys during the debates. get a grip -this is too important-


by Menemshasunset on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:31:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

kerry kicked Bush's ass in debates (none / 0)

but people didn't vote for him because they liked
Bush better, the american people through polls are telling dems not to nominate Clinton, her nomination ould be cutting off our nose to spite
our face so to speak, right wing frames about her have probably damadged her beyond repair with the general electorate and then you have to facter in the natural inclination to want a change from the "Bush" and Clinton" name already.

Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New Hampshire (none / 0)

In New Hampshire she is gaining in the polls.  According to the latest post debate New Hampshire polls she increased her lead from earlier polls.  She is also preceived by the polled voters are a "strong leader" and mostly likely to win the general election.

http://static.cbslocal.com/station/wbz/w bz/2007/june/debateresults.pdf

http://unh.edu/survey-center/news/pdf/pr imary2008_demprim061107.pdf


by gradysdad on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 06:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

WRONG.  Kerry was actually in the LEAD, he was the frontrunner in May/June last time around.  He lost the lead temporarily to the "buzz" candidate Dean, but gained it back in the end.  


by georgep on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations (none / 0)

This may be one case where the Iowa momentum is a good thing.  Hopefully, Clinton will lose Iowa and then be hammered for doing so, see her low information voter-driven leads elsewhere evaporate, leaving us with a more electable, more likable, and more reliable candidate (Edwards, Obama, Richardson).

On the Republican side, their two well-known allegedly moderate candidates (McCain, Guiliani) go down, giving the nomination to a more right-wing candidate. Said right-wing candidate would then get creamed by Obama, Richardson, Edwards, or some combination thereof.


by TheUnknown285 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 02:35:21 PM EST

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

We need Hillary to fall to third place in Iowa and then her campaign is done.

What's worse for Hillary losing to Edwards by 15% in Iowa and comming in second place

or

Hillary losing to Edwards by 10% and comming in third place in the caucus.


by Djneedle83 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 04:23:08 PM EST

Edwards (none / 0)

Hillary won't be losing to Edwards. He simply has no momentum anywhere in the country, except for Iowa, and even there he is only leading by 5 points.  

I don't think there is much hope for John Edwards.  Considering he is the candidate I like the least, that suits me fine.  I saw a sign in a car window yesterday that said "John Edwards For President of Iowa".   I also think if you removed Elizabeth from the picture, that Edwards support would dwindle to the single digits.  


by samueldem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:03:06 PM EST

dem losers club (none / 0)

today she is touting an endorsement from Dina Titus a nominee in NV for governer who lost to a crook and a deviant in the best democratic year of our lifetimes, maybe she found a soulmate in another unelectable democrat.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:35:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

Dina got absolutely hammered in the Cows.  On the night of her loss, Dina made a comment regretting the time she wasted out there.

Hillary probably won't do as well in the Cows as Dina did.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 05:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

I'm very disappointed with Titus, both with her loss and her endorsement today, she should know how hard it is for candidates out west to win with the negatives Hillary has, truthfully if the state dems had any other nominee we would have spared the state from it's worst in the nation governer status we have now.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 06:07:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

Maybe she just feels that Hillary is truly the best person to lead us out of the darkness- Please try to see through all of the negativity spewing from the internet, the msm and the Republican party- Hillary is an amazing woman and we are lucky to have her potential.


by Menemshasunset on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 06:29:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

agreed


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 06:40:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

Yes, Hillary's resume and smarts are impressive.

Do you really, really, really believe that most people vote for the most qualified candidate or for the candidate they like the best?


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:36:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

No she won't, and thats the point. Titus is Hillary on a smaller scale, played well with the base as I voted for her in the dem primary here and I now regret it because Gibson would have beaten Gibbons bit she got mauled by evrywhere else and wasn't able to break the high 40's, and now we have Hillary who also will get absolutely crushed outside of the coasts and the cities and will be reduces to trying to get the most out of the 50% that will even consider voting for her, the handwriting is on the wall.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 06:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

Amen.

I repeat - Hillary will not even be able to carry all the states that Kerry won.  Goodbye Minnesota and Wisconsin.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 07:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: dem losers club (none / 0)

today she is touting an endorsement from Dina Titus a nominee in NV for governer who lost to a crook and a deviant in the best democratic year of our lifetimes, maybe she found a soulmate in another unelectable democrat.

I love how you and Allmaya claim to be the know alls of Nevada politics.

By your logic no democrat can ever win statewide in Nevada. Your argument comparing Titus to Clinton is laughable

First, Gibbons beat Titus for a lot more reasons than the rurals.

1. He had a crazy amount more money then she did. When you can't go on air until a month after you've been hit with a barrage of "Dina Taxes" ads you're screwed. Furthermore even when she started running ads she couldnt run nearly as many as he did

2. He was an incredibly popular congressman in CD2 for about a decade. And before that a popular state senator. His familiarity with voters and name ID was through the roof

3. Gibbons had a lot more connection in Nevada because of Sig Rogich.

4. Gibbons benefited from being down ticket of John Ensign who, although he didn't have a competitive race, brought a lot of people to the polls. And remember, Ensign is the golden boy of the Nevada GOP. Who did Titus have? Jack Carter,Riiight...

5. Titus faced a brutal primary against Jim Gibson where she had to basically go kamikaze on him in order to win.

6. I highly doubt Clintons unfavorables in Nevada are as high as Titus were

7. Rural and Northern Nevadans widely distrusted Titus and were spiteful of her because of her numerous negative comments towards them such as her infamous "rascals" remarks


by world dictator on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 08:22:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

World Dictator - why won't you answer my simple question?  How many statewide elected D's are there in Nevada (other than Harry Reid)?


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 09:12:18 PM EST

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

"World Dictator - why won't you answer my simple question?  How many statewide elected D's are there in Nevada (other than Harry Reid)?"

If what you are implying here is correct then the Democrats are likely to lose Nevada regardless.

But as to the specifics of your question...

Basically the entire down ticket in Nevada, minus Lt Gov, are Democrats.

Secretary of State Ross Miller

State Controller Kim Walin

State Treasurer Kate Marshall

Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto

http://www.nv.gov/new_ElectedOfficials.h tm


by world dictator on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 10:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

Thanks.  I didn't know.

And my point is not that Nevada is hopeless.  In fact, if anyone but Hillary gets the nomination, I feel the D's will carry Nevada this time (and maybe even pick up a congressional seat).

But if Hillary gets the nod, I simply don't see her carrying Nevada.  And I predict this will be repeated in swing states across the country.

Her negatives are too high.  Lots of mouth breathers will go to the polls for the sole reason of voting against her.


by Allmaya on Tue Jun 12, 2007 at 11:11:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

And my point is not that Nevada is hopeless.  In fact, if anyone but Hillary gets the nomination, I feel the D's will carry Nevada this time (and maybe even pick up a congressional seat).

But if Hillary gets the nod, I simply don't see her carrying Nevada.  And I predict this will be repeated in swing states across the country.

Her negatives are too high.  Lots of mouth breathers will go to the polls for the sole reason of voting against her.

You have absolutely no evidence to support any of the claims here as I have pointed out and provided  several counter arguments to your claim that Hillary is bad for Nevada.

Your claim that we might even pick up a congressional seat if a non Hillary candidate is picked is laughable. If you mean the ONE congressional seat likely to be in play CD-3, I doubt it seeing as democrats aren't even near credible candidate yet.

Furthermore your entire argument that Hillary is unelected is based on her favorability rating THIS IS EMPERICALLY INACCURATE IN PREDICTING ELECTABILITY.

Examples from the last presidential races

1. Dukakis had a 66% favorability rating and got his ass kicked by Bush Sr.

2. Clinton had 48% unfavorable rating in 92 and won.

3. Al Gore had unfavorable ratings in the mid 40's and shouldve/couldve won.

Even more damning to your claim is that Kerry had high favorability originally , only 21# viewed him unfavorably, and then within a month of the election it jumped to 48%.

EVERYONE'S UNFAVORABILITY RATING GOES WAY UP TOWARDS THE GENERAL

I've bashed this argument elsewhere with more analytic arguments to go with these counter examples on other threads. Favorability rating is unreliable people.


by world dictator on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 01:19:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

Hey good idea.

Let's nominate someone with high negative favorability ratings because they don't make any difference!

I wonder who Fred Thompson will nominate for the Supreme Court.


by Allmaya on Wed Jun 13, 2007 at 01:42:08 AM EST

Re: Republican and Democratic Nominations, At A Gl (none / 0)

Hey, better idea:  Let's nominate someone who DEMOCRATS like less than another person,  based on his fans' belief that he would have better favorables with the public at large.    Let's just get around that entire Democracy thing and just give the nomination to that person, irregardless of whether the combined Democratic primary voters don't even WANT that person representing them.

Great idea there, Allmaya.


by georgep on Thu Jun 14, 2007 at 02:57:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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