FL Poll from IVR Polls

I love it that pollsters are now releasing results on MyDD--Chris

A couple of days ago, I wrote a diary explaining RBS style polling, and how I thought the high level of seniors in the recent Datamar Florida poll might explain Edwards' strength in that poll.

I polled Florida last night, using the voter file to identify previous voters. I had FloridaVoterFile.com pull two samples, one of Democratic primary voters and a second of registered Democrats who vote in general elections. Note that Florida holds a primary for other offices separately from the presidential preference primary and that the normal primary has double the turnout of the presidential primary, which is normally held too late to have much impact. The early presidential preference primary will likely see heavier turnout than usual, but the increased turnout will likely come from past voters. First time voters are typically a very small percentage of the vote, and they generally do not differ from other voters by enough to have significant impact unless the race is a real squeaker.

Datamar's demographics were very close to past elections, and with the high senior vote and other polling showing Edwards with strength among seniors, their results seemed plausible. Calling randomly generated numbers is unlikely to get such a high percentage of seniors, so maybe RDD pollsters were underweighting this group.

My polling did not confirm Datamar's results. In particular, Florida seniors went strongly for Clinton and did not give Edwards significantly different results than other age groups. In trying to reconcile the two polls, I couldn't find any way to recreate their numbers. Edwards did not lead in any region, age group, sex, ethnic group or anything else I analyzed. Clinton had a healthy lead in most categories, though Obama had a large lead among voters under 40.

There were differences between the regular primary voters and the general voters. Clinton was over 50% in regular primary voters, with Edwards 6 points ahead of Obama. Among general voters, Clinton was under 40%. Obama was 12 points back in second, but still 15 points ahead of Edwards. African-American primary voters went for Clinton three to one over Obama, but African-American general voters went for Obama three to one over Clinton. Edwards was tied for second in each case.

The first followup question was "Assuming the candidate you indicated hasn't dropped out before the primary, are you definitely going to vote for them, or are you still considering other candidates?" Clinton and Obama both received 70% 'definite' while Edwards received 55%.

The second followup was "If Al Gore entered the race, would you definitely change your vote, possibly change your vote or definitely stay with your current choice?" Gore would take second place based on 20% saying they would definitely vote for him. Another 34% would 'possibly' change their vote. One in four Edwards supporters and one in five Obama supporters would definitely switch, but only about one in fifteen Clinton supporters would definitely move to Gore. About one in three of each top candidate's supporters would 'possibly' switch.

487 surveyed, 4.4% MoE for the blended population, subgroups have higher MoE. Weighted by sex, age group and ethnicity to match historical results. Graphic at IVRPolls.com with additional analysis when I get around to it.

Primary population - Clinton 51%, Obama 11%, Edwards 17%
General population - Clinton 38%, Obama 26%, Edwards 11%
Blended population - Clinton 45%, Obama 18%, Edwards 14%

I think there is a good chance that the actual results will be closer to the pure primary results as that already has significantly higher turnout than past presidential preference primaries.

Other May polls for comparison:
Datamar - Edwards 26%, Clinton 24%, Obama 19%
Strategic Vision - Clinton 37%, Obama 20%, Edwards 19%
Schroth, Eldon & Assoc - Clinton 42%, Obama 19%, Edwards 12%
ARG - Clinton 45%, Obama 17%, Edwards 15%



Display:


Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Wow.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:22:12 AM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

No kidding.


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:25:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (3.00 / 3)

I would like to say that although Mark Penn cited one of my polls in a memo this week, I have not received a check in the mail with instruction on how to join the 'Pollsters for Hillary' conspiracy.

I'll keep you updated.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:30:55 AM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Are you thinking of doing any Iowa or NH polls.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

No, but I'm in the process of getting the Nevada voter file


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:40:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

WHAT WAS THE PERCWENTAGE OF UN-DECIDED'S IN YOUR POLL?


by BDM on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:42:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

General voters - 12%
Primary voters - 10%
Blended voters - 11%
Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:44:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Is that not pretty low at this stage of the campaign?


by BDM on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:48:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

The questions are recorded. The names are rattled off in a rotated order with undecided always the last choice. As there is a bias towards the first name read, there may be bias against the last choice.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take this Poll with huge grains of Salt (none / 0)

The blended number assumes a linear variation which is not necessarily true. Your general and primary voter does not include the Obama crowd, i.e. the new voters not included in your database.

If I was a Clinton people, I will love your poll solely for PR even if they don't believe it.

I don't believe the results of you poll because it left out a substantial number of Primary voters.


by mdiogu on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take this Poll with huge grains of Salt (none / 0)

I show both the general and primary populations so you can weight them in whatever proportions you feel is reasonable.

Among registered Democrats in past Florida general elections, 14% are under 40.
Among registered Democrats in past Florida general elections, 7% are under 40.

Maybe Obama doubles turnout in those age groups. The math still gives it to Clinton.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:26:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Take this Poll with huge grains of Salt (none / 0)

Should be
Among registered Democrats in past Florida primary elections, 7% are under 40.
Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Nevada would be good, more polling is needed there.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:43:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

LOL.   You'll hear it from enough posters soon enough.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:47:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Primary - IVR Polls (3.00 / 1)

You should submit your polls to RCP, pollster.com, etc.    


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:46:29 AM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Primary population - Clinton 51%, Obama 11%, Edwards 17%

General population - Clinton 38%, Obama 26%, Edwards 11%

Blended population - Clinton 45%, Obama 18%, Edwards 14%

So, what you are saying here is that in Florida Obama polls poorly amongst Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents claiming they'll vote in the primary, but better amongst the General population, which of course includes Republicans, right?


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:55:46 AM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

These are all registered Democrats.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:58:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Chris (3.00 / 2)

I consider blogs and their readers to be my target market. I'm not looking for the DC money, I'm looking for the grassroots/netroots candidates that need the insight but don't have the scratch for DC polling. I'm in their price range.

People who work these campaigns read blogs like MyDD, so why wouldn't I post here first?


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:56:58 AM EST

Re: Chris (none / 0)

And look for my Texas poll at the Burnt Orange Report next week.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:53:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Quick question:

The primary poll numbers, were they based on the voter file of past presidential preference primary voters or the regular primary voters?  I know you said that the regular primary voters were about twice as much as the presidential preference primary voters.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:03:12 PM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Both qualify

Lot of good data in this big pdf
http://floridavoterfile.com/fl_counts.pd f though most of it is on registered voters, it does have total turnout


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

looking at these numbers it becomes Obvious once again that Obama is the strongest general election candidate, HRC inevitability pushers don't like to discuss it but a major theme to this race is going to become which candidate has the ability to make the demcocrats into a "majority" party for the next generation.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:13:26 PM EST

Huh? (none / 0)

How did you reach that conclusion? Clinton is still much stronger than Obama among Democratic general election voters. The poll says nothing about independents and republicans.


by PhillyGuy on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

Fair enough. I explain that the general population is 'Registered Democrats in the General Election' but I don't spell it out every time and it could be mis-interpreted.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

Can independents participate in the Florida Primary?

What percentage of the electorate in Florida is independent?


by BDM on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:50:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh? (none / 0)

No independents


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:56:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

What is obvious is that Obama is not connecting with DEMOCRATS in this state, particularly those most likely to vote in the primaries (meaning the most engaged.)  He only gets a measly 11% of those who have a history of VOTING in Democratic primaries.  

Of course, the large senior population in this state makes a huge difference here. While seniors are BY FAR Clinton's strongest demogroup, they ALSO make up the most reliable primary voter block.  

The constant droning by some Obama fans that Obama makes the "best general election candidate" misses reality by a mile.  He is in serious trouble in Florida if he can't improve his standing amongst DEMOCRATS in this state appreciably, especially amongst older voters.


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

I agree that Obama has to make up a lot of ground among Democrats in Florida, and other states as well.

The media is saying his healthcare reform plan is geared to the Independents, and while I have not even read it yet, I am planning to today. I am guessing he has not vowed to go after the insurance companies to rein them in with legislation, while Hillary promised to do just that.  She is, in fact, already working on that legislation in the Senate.

I see Obama as advocating a less-cynical form of politics to appeal to voters across the spectrum.  But there is little doubt in my mind that it is Hillary who is presenting a bolder form of politics.  And good for her.  I anticipated she would wait awhile before presenting her numerous anti-corporate proposals but it appears her success in the polls, so far, is giving her the message that the time is now.

And no, this doesn't make her a hypocrite.  She knows that to win she must constantly balance her strategy between the primary and general elections.  She's one smart cookie and she has an incredible organization and a great team of advisors, not the least of which is President Bill Clinton.  

Her recent Innovation Agenda - Part 1.0 is fucking brilliant, and was just presented to the hot-shots in Silicon Valley.  She became, with that presentation, The Technology President.
Covering her bases lest Al Gore jump into the race?  Smart.  

Having said all of the above, Barack Obama is still Hillary's only real challenger.  They are very much attuned to what the other is doing, as they must be.  

John Edwards is fighting for his political career right now.  His position is very precarious.  Even if he wins in Iowa, if it ends up being a squeaker, he's finished.  My only explanation for his extremely low ratings in the other state polls, and in all the national polls, is that people are unsure of him;  they don't know whether they can trust him and with other choices available and the bad press he gets every time he makes a gaffe, they are not supporting him.


by samueldem on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:53:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

I'm not entirely certain anybody's connecting with Florida Democrats much as yet. Certainly not to the level in Iowa or New Hampshire or even South Carolina and I don't see that happening until the question of Florida's primary is finally resolved.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So you are saying that Dem primary voters (none / 0)

would vote for the Republican candidate if Obama was our nominee?

Obama would win the Dem vote and also the indie and Rep vote unlike Clintn.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 02:41:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So you are saying that Dem primary voters (none / 0)

Sure.  He'll win 99% of the electorate.  That makes a lot of sense.

BTW, Obama, The Reagan of the Left says it all right there.  


by georgep on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 11:01:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's a facinating stat: (none / 0)

African-American primary voters went for Clinton three to one over Obama, but African-American general voters went for Obama three to one over Clinton.

Does that bode well or ill for Obama?  It's certainly a very interesting stat.


by rashomon on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:22:44 PM EST

The Gore Component (none / 0)

Am I understanding this correctly - Gore would take second if he was included, and the bulk of his support would come from Obama and Edwards... and only a very small amount from HRC. And Hillary would maintain a very strong lead.

This is true for both groups of voters (primary and GE)?


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:23:15 PM EST

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

You got it. Primary voters are less likely to switch than the general voters, with Edwards general voters particularly ready to jump, but Clinton loses very few in either population


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

But - the results in the graph only include those who would definitely change their vote for Gore. Bring in part of the "possibly switch" group and Gore doesn't look to shabby, not even next to Hillary.

Does Gore fare any better at stealing Hillary's votes among the "possibly switch" group?
(Sorry if this data is in front of my face, but I'm not seeing it!)


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

No, I had planned to go into more detail on my site later. The Gore aspect was one of the most interesting things to me.

Among the big three's supporters, about a third are 'possibly' going to switch.  Clinton is a little higher than Edwards and Obama, but she still easily leads in the 'definitely not going to switch' numbers.

Over half of Richardson's support 'definitely' jumps to Gore.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:06:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

"Among the big three's supporters, about a third are 'possibly' going to switch.  Clinton is a little higher than Edwards and Obama, but she still easily leads in the 'definitely not going to switch' numbers."

Many other polls have shown Clinton's support to be more solid and "less likely to switch" than Obama's and Edwards'.  That is why she leads consistently while below her you see movement back and forth between Obama, Gore and Edwards.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

This defies conventional wisdom (around these parts) that Hillary's support is soft and based on a) universal name recognition and b) her aura as heir apparent.
Yet, she clearly has the most solid support in this poll - by a damn big margin, too!
www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

It seems to me that "these parts" are very limited in demographics.  Many posting here appear to be the young set, 19, 20 years of age, voting in a presidential election for the first time in their lifes.  While it is great that young voters are this engaged, it may be tough to realize that other demogroups don't think alike.  I am 45 years of age and naturally my circle of friends and associates is a bit older, and I don't detect a lot of excitement or solid support for Obama or Edwards, at least here in Florida.  Clinton is a different matter.  Amongst Democrats that I know she is definitely the favorite, although I have heard occasionally about the concerns that have already been discussed.   When I mention Gore I usually get eye rolls, his negatives are also very high (as is natural for any Democratic candidate who has been through the right-wing wringer.)  

Florida may poll different than other states, but amongst the larger states Florida is considered the MOST "American" state, meaning that the demographics of this state are closest to the average of the USA in terms of makeup of the population (Caucasian vs. minority shares,) age demographics, median household income, party affiliation shares, urban vs. rural shares, etc.   As such Florida makes an excellent testing ground for pollsters, as much of the findings can be used for the nation in general.    


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:36:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

I was under the impression that the demos here (and at other prominent liberal blogs) are skewed towards older folks (30-50). Then again, there may be a big difference between those who simply visit and read the blog, and those who comment frequently and post diaries.

I am sure they will post the results of the recent blog survey here sometime soon.

For the record, I'm 26 (for some reason I feel compelled to disclose that).


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:53:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

You're right.  The link below is from the blog survey you mention.  The average age of Democrats on blogs is 40 years old.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/3/22/1241 0/6509

I'm right in that age group (42) and I have to say that everyone I talk that's interested in the presidential race and that includes people at work, my political volunteering, the parents at my son's school, no one expresses support for Hillary.  Most haven't made up their minds, but the first thing they say is that they hope Hillary doesn't get the nomination.

Obviously Georgep and I are walking in different circles, but it certainly isn't because of our age difference.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Gore Component (none / 0)

So, according to my roughest estimate, Gore's best case scenario would place him in the running for first with Hillary in Florida. Furthermore, it could wipe Obama and Edwards out of the running in this state.

Not too shabby.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And check out Gravel! (none / 0)

...I know it's in the MoE, but is he beating all the bottom tier candidates in this poll? And he's tied with Richardson among primary voters? Clearly, he is destined to break into the top tier! :D


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:26:15 PM EST

Re: And check out Gravel! (none / 0)

That is interesting.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:32:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And check out Gravel! (none / 0)

Small subgroup, and all votes were primary voters. He does match Florida's demographics better than the other whippersnappers.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:35:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And check out Gravel! (none / 0)

If he does well in the next debate I think he will gain some more.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:38:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Obama has to bring voters into the primary process that don't usually show up for these things. No one disputes that we just argue about whether he will be able to do so.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:28:56 PM EST

Which States Have No Polling? (none / 0)

Which of the 15 to 20 states (not sure of the number any more) in early February do not have any polls so far?


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:40:13 PM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Go Hillary!


by sterkt on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 12:45:41 PM EST

Edwards and Obama have far more growth potential. (3.00 / 1)

Edwards and Obama have significantly more growth potential among all voters than Hillary does.

Rasmussen poll

Candidate Def. FOR Def. AGAINST Net

Obama 33% 38% -5

Edwards 27% 35% -8

Clinton 28% 47% -19

Among those who haven't already made up their minds about Hillary one way or the other (and far more have decided they won't support her than will), she needs to win over 92% of them to become the next president.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:10:44 PM EST

Re: Edwards and Obama (none / 0)

That is not supported by other polls.  Most polls show a much different "would vote for, would definitely not vote for" alignment that that one Rasmussen snapshot.   As you can see that same issue discussed in this Florida poll, which shows Clinton's "would definitely vote for" number higher than all other Democratic candidates.

Also, this important part from this poll:

The first followup question was "Assuming the candidate you indicated hasn't dropped out before the primary, are you definitely going to vote for them, or are you still considering other candidates?" Clinton and Obama both received 70% 'definite' while Edwards received 55%.

Obviously we are talking "definitely would vote for" answers on the much higher Clinton result vs. the already low Edwards and Obama numbers, meaning that even at the 17% level Edwards gets in this poll amongst "primary" Democrats, his support is "softer" by 15% compared to Clinton's "definitely going to vote for" number at her much larger support number of 51% in the "primary" sample.  

You can't really spin these types of numbers as meaning the opposite of what they really do.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There have been plenty of polls showing... (3.00 / 2)

...Hillary's negatives dangerously high. The fact that she needs to win over almost every undecided voter is a huge red flag for Democrats who might be considering nominating her.

Concerns about her ability to ultimately win are well-founded, and will be strongly reinforced as soon as the first actual results come in.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There have been plenty of polls showing... (none / 0)

"Hillary's negatives dangerously high. The fact that she needs to win over almost every undecided voter is a huge red flag for Democrats who might be considering nominating her."

That is absolutely flawed reasoning.  How does she have to win over "almost every undecided voter"?  That makes no sense and is not supported by polls.   She currently polls at around 35% to 37%, and it is well known that she gets a good share of Gore voters (if he is included in a poll) and a plurality of both Obama and Edwards voters.  Any conceivable scenario and poll has her generally eclipsing 50% easily, once you take Gore or other candidates out of the equation.  When the race fritters down to just two candidates, she easily beats the second (be it Obama or Edwards) and gets close to 60%, and if the poll is stated as a 3-person race she gets close to 50% and easily beats the next in line (be it Edwards or Obama.)    

Your contention finds no basis in reality.


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

These are general election numbers, not primary. (none / 0)

It helps to actually click on the link.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There have been plenty of polls showing... (none / 0)

On the other hand, for Edwards to change the alignment and get past 50% he has to not only win basically every undecided voter but wrestle a lot of voters away from Clinton and Obama, despite the fact that they have (as seen in this poll) a larger share of "definitely will vote for" numbers at their current poll shares than Edwards himself.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There have been plenty of polls showing... (none / 0)

A lot of 'definite' votes for a given candidate change to 'definite' or 'possible' votes for Gore if he is added to the mix. The phrasing in the first question has the second option as 'are you still considering other candidates' and technically, Gore is not a candidate.


Texas Economics
by IVR Polls on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New electorate (none / 0)

The problem with this poll is, it relies on "past turn outs"..Does anyone really think that this upcoming primary will be similar to past primaries??...Not a chance....I think you will have historical turn outs never seen before because this election, specially democratic primary, will be so important to democrats.

Obama will turn out huge swath of black voters +young voters because he has excited them like no others...Howard dean only had white folks excited..I sure wasnt excited about Dean..All i saw was a screaming white dude bashing Bush....Obama is able to get chinese,Blacks,Hipanics etc excited man.

I would love to see a pollster use a poll that crank ups the black and youth votes by about 50% from previous year...I predict this is what will happen.

Also, a lot of folks are registering..You have to count those people too..Ive heard rumours that people are registering to vote in the upcoming primary in drove..I believe that you will see a record number of new voters.

So far, i havent seen one poll that have at least taken a poll with the kind of turn out that im expecting...I would like to see one.

The rule of thumb is, triple the youth + black votes..and double the new voters turn out from previous years...all of them.


by JaeHood on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:36:33 PM EST

Re: New electorate (none / 0)

"The problem with this poll is, it relies on "past turn outs"..Does anyone really think that this upcoming primary will be similar to past primaries??...Not a chance....I think you will have historical turn outs never seen before because this election, specially democratic primary, will be so important to democrats."

In this poll Clinton also has a solid lead amongst the "General Democratic" population, which has nothing to do with past turnout.   I think you are way off here.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 01:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

What do you mean by "i'm way off"....I'm talking about the primary electorate...Doesn't all poll uses past turn out % to at least get a clue on how many people will vote..How many black voters, how many white voters, how many senior citizens etc etc?

I've heard people repeatedly saying that the youth votes wont show up and blacks voters usually  dont vote in primary,and polls uses this kind of data to figure out turn outs..Am i wrong on that?

I believe this upcoming primary will be huge because you have candidate with large sum of money and they will be able to flood the market and pull more people out to vote.

Also, Obama has an amazing grassroots never seen before...I believe this will help turn out even more people..

I predict that the youth votes will break all record, specially college students...Obama has tripled his supports on college campus during the past 2 months..Take that!

Obama will crush Edwards and Hillary..Take that to the bank....I want to see a poll that cranks up the black and youth votes..Untill i see this poll,then those polls doesnt count.


by JaeHood on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:00:17 PM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (3.00 / 1)

The Obama campaign will almost certainly pull more youth support than previous campaigns, but whether that will be decisive is hard to tell. Sounds to me as if you're letting your wishes dictate your expectations.

That said, in earlier states this time round turnout will probably be up across the board as they'll feel they have more influence.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:17:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

I generally agree with this - record youth turnout? Probably. Game-changing youth turnout? That's a big maybe.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Unless something changes, record youth turnout is unlikely to make a difference in a Hillary-Obama race. Contrary to most assumptions that Obama takes the entire youth vote, the last poll of young people's choices [done by the Institute of Politics at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard in March] shows very little support for that assumption.

In that poll, Obama had 35% to Hillary's 29%. Even if youth turnout quintuples, that won't make much of a practical difference unless it's a one or two point race...

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/pdfs/survey_s 2007_execsumm.pdf

Realistically, a rising tide of youth support lifts both Clinton and Obama.


by mrstas on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 11:13:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (3.00 / 1)

Older voters dominiate the primaries. The Dean theory that large numbers of young people will register and actually vote never panned out in 2004. In many ways I think Dean had more momentum than Obama does at this point.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 03:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (3.00 / 1)

"amazing grassroots never seen before?" How many have you seen?

Wellstone was probably the gold standard for grassroots organization that actually turned out voters. But on the national scale the Clinton '92 grassroots turnout was probably the most impressive, he turned out more new young voters than anyone until the 2004 Kerry campaign, and Clinton turned them out in the right places to win.

The RNC's 72 hour church-based program was very successful in 2002 and 2004. The most infamous college based grassroots effort is probably Ralph Nader's in 2000, he got tons of enthusiasm but only enough votes to be a spoiler.

I don't know as much about primary grassroots efforts, but the only place the Dean effort turned into votes was in NH, and the person who ran that works for Clinton.

Obama has college student enthusiasm, but turning that into primary votes is a difficult proposition.


by souvarine on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:38:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Data on young voters (none / 0)

I forgot to link to Young Voter Strategies, a good data source on youth voter turnout.


by souvarine on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:43:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

thats what im saying..A lot of hose polls are using past data when they know this upcoming primary will set records in turn outs.

Im also hearing that independents in Iowa and NH will vote in mass numbers on the democratic primary instead of the GOP primary..Those polls arent showing that either.

Obama holds a lead among independent voters, and once they show up, along with record high youth college voters, we will crush all competition...there's no doubt about that..Take it to the bank.


by JaeHood on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 02:22:35 PM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Independants chosing to vote in the democratic primary in NH is likely if they feel that's where all the action is and currently it seems they do. Independants participating in the caucus in Iowa in any sort of numbers is highly unlikely. Few democrats even get involved in the caucus as it's a time consuming and inconvienent affair.


by Quinton on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 05:22:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Highly doubtful.  The segment that is the LEAST LIKELY to vote is not likely to triple in size.  We can be happy and do cartwheels if they add 20% to their numbers.  

Wishful thinking is  the only thing guiding these thoughts, not realism.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 10:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

This whole thing seems to start with an agenda.

"A couple of days ago, I wrote a diary explaining RBS style polling, and how I thought the high level of seniors in the recent Datamar Florida poll might explain Edwards' strength in that poll."

And you did the poll, - I am not sure but, I am not comfortable with all of it.

Overall polling is just that, hitting a few, and poll questions can lead the results.

I have never liked polls - they can be skewed just like any other numbers or statistics.

And, it is to realy for any to be reliable.


Check out the New Progressive Blog EENRBLOG
by dk2 on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 04:14:30 PM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Wow.  An Edwards fan is "not comfortable with this" poll because the numbers are not what he likes.  

Color me surprised.  

To charge the diarist and pollster with an "agenda" is ridiculous.  Bring rock-solid proof before making extreme charges like that which question the integrity and honesty of the diarist.    


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:01:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

Who says that HRC and Edwards aren't just as appealing to younger voters as Barrack is? For different reasons, all 3 candidates will get roughly the same amount of support, IMO.


by ND1979 on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 05:05:57 PM EST

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

You are right.  The Gallup poll shows us that Clinton is very strong in the youth demogroup as well.  Also she is very, very strong with ALL minorities.   If the youth vote comes out like there is no tomorrow, she will benefit along with Obama.  


by georgep on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 11:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are saying that she is inevitable? n/t (none / 0)


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 02:46:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are saying that she is inevitable? n/t (none / 0)

No, as of RIGHT NOW she has the upper hand.  That can change if one of the other candidates makes a compelling, convincing case to Democratic voters.  As of right now they have not.  so, if Obama is MEANT to be president, he WILL make a convincing and compelling case.  If he is not, then not.   Simple as that.  


by georgep on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 11:04:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (none / 0)

This Harvard poll of 18-24 voters shows support for your statements...

http://www.iop.harvard.edu/pdfs/survey_s 2007_execsumm.pdf


by mrstas on Sat Jun 02, 2007 at 11:15:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: FL Poll from IVR Polls (3.00 / 1)

Its pretty cool to have the pollster in here to answer questions! Thanks.


by ND1979 on Fri Jun 01, 2007 at 05:17:56 PM EST


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