Florida Moves Primary To January 29th

It looks like this is a done deal:
Florida took a step toward shaking up the presidential primary on Thursday, giving final legislative approval to moving the state's 2008 primary to Jan. 29 and bypassing a dozen other states set for Feb. 5.

Moving up Florida's primary, which is currently in early March, would put the state's contest behind only the Iowa and Nevada Caucuses and the New Hampshire primary -- and on the same day as South Carolina's Democratic primary.

State party leaders have argued Florida's diversity and size merit more influence in deciding the nation's leadership. The delegate-rich state decided the disputed 2000 presidential election.

Republican Gov. Charlie Crist, who has consistently voiced his support for giving the nation's fourth-largest state more say, is expected to sign the bill. The House voted 118-0 on Thursday to pass the measure. The Senate last week voted for the plan, which also would replace touch-screen voting machines in 15 counties with a paper-trail system.
I have previously made my opinion on this move clear. The idea that a state with such unbelievably high general election sway like Florida would seek to also hold an equal amount of sway over the nomination process can only be called an obnoxious power grab. However, now that the deed is done, there are only two questions to ask. First, will candidates campaign in Florida, or will threats held out by both the RNC and DNC dissuade them from doing so? From the same article:
Florida's move immediately incurred the wrath of South Carolina party leaders and predictions that the national parties will penalize the state.

National Republican and Democratic leaders have said they will take away delegates to the nominating conventions if Florida moved its primary earlier than Feb. 5. The Democratic National Committee has said a candidate who campaigns in Florida for a primary earlier than Feb. 5 will be ineligible for receiving any of the state's delegates.
So far, only the John Edwards campaign seems to be taking these threats seriously, and is considering not campaigning in the state.

Second, will other states move up to January 29th in response? The most commonly floated possibility is Michigan. In fact, Michigan has a a standing threat in place:
MDP Chair Mark Brewer made the following statement 1 March 2007:

"I have consulted with Michigan Democratic leaders and the consensus is that the MDP will hold its Caucus on Saturday, February 9, 2008 provided all other states abide by the DNC scheduling rules," Brewer said. "There is also a consensus among our leaders that if any state schedules its caucus or primary in violation of the DNC's rules, Michigan will move its Caucus to an earlier date. That earlier date may be on or before the date of the offending state's caucus or primary."
Unless something has changed, we should expect Michigan to move up to January 29th sometime in the next few weeks. With union members and African-Americans making up a large percentage of the primary / caucus electorate in Michigan, such a move might actually be a healthy counter to a Florida primary on the same day. However, with South Carolina, Michigan, and Florida all holding nomination events on January 29th, one has to wonder if more states will join them. I certainly hope not, but it is possible. And then there is the lingering possibility of December events in Iowa and New Hampshire. A few weeks ago, I cooked up a calendar that I think would satisfy all parties involved, and be an improvement on the calendars of recent nomination campaigns. Whatever happens, I hope it happens fast, because I am sick of all the threats and whining. Let's just get a primary schedule in place, and move on with our lives.



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Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

I'm sorry, but I am really starting to hate Florida.  Not a big fan of NH or IA, but at least Jeb Bush ain't from either of those.


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:28:41 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

The idea that a state with such unbelievably high general election sway like Florida would seek to also hold an equal amount of sway over the nomination process can only be called an obnoxious power grab. However, now that the deed is done, there are only two questions to ask. First, will candidates campaign in Florida, or will threats held out by both the RNC and DNC dissuade them from doing so?

I heartily agree.  Doesn't this mean Florida loses delegates?


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:29:04 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

I think the problem is that Florida has so many delegates to start with that losing (is it 15%?) won't make a big enough difference in terms of its influence.


by afertig on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

I don't think it's that it loses delegates altogether, but it does mean that delegates would not necessarily be divided according the results of the January 29th primary.  In effect, like the article said, it becomes a beauty contest having no bearing on distribution of delegates to the convention.

Is that correct, Chris?


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

In that case, wouldn't it be wiser for the DNC (they're the ones who award deligates, right?) to go ahead and award the FL deligates on 1/29 ... but to award them only to eligible candidates, ie, those who didn't campaign in the state?

This messes with the 'beauty contest' because say all the major candidates campaign there, for the sake of beauty. Clinton wins. But Richardson takes the high ground, and refuses to campaign ... and comes in first of the non-FL-campaigners. So he gets the deligates, and Clinton has to share the beauty with the morally-correct Richardson.

And yes, the world is lovely inside my head, thanks for asking ...


by BingoL on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

My understanding is that Feb. 5th is the earliest the other states (besides Iowa, NH, Nevada, and SC) can go and keep all their delegates.  If they go earlier, they lose some.  I think that's how it works.


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:35:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How is this any different (none / 0)

than what Iowa and NH have done for YEARS.


by fladem on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:02:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How is this any different (none / 0)

Florida has a lot more delegates, and they basically said "Fuck the DNC, we'll do what we want."

But yeah, Iowa and NH have an unfair duopoly.


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

Will Senator Clinton be sending Florida a thank you note?  If she maintains her lead there, this would go a long way toward diluting potentially bad news from Iowa and South Carolina, and keeping her in contention for the February 5th sweepstakes.

On the other hand, what's wrong with key swing states holding early primaries?  Shouldn't Democrats want to field a candidate who is popular in the battleground states?


by Lex on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:32:41 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

The problem is that one state--Florida--can have such a monopoly in deciding the fate of the entire nation (and indeed, the world). It's hard to argue that your votes in Florida, as a whole, didn't matter in the Presidential race in 2000. But even putting that to the side for a moment, in every Presidential race, Florida is simply a huge state whose electoral votes make a huge difference. So to give it even more influence during the primaries inflates its own self-importance even more. It adds to the slice-and-dice politics of today that says that only some states are important when it comes to electing a person who is supposed to represent these United States as a whole.


by afertig on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:38:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

I hope my county election workers didn't bury the voting machines too far back in the warehouse - looks as if we will be having a primary in a week or two.  A month at the most ;-)

sPh


by sphealey on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:34:37 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

As much as I may dislike Florida for the same reasons you've stated, I also think this could actually be a good thing for the general election.  At one point in time, my idea of a reformed primary system, if a national primary was not possible, was to base it on which states had cast the deciding electoral votes by the narrowest margins in the previous general election.  So for example, the first state in the 2008 primary would be Ohio, the first state in the 2004 primary would have been Florida, etc.  Such a system would at least make some amount of sense in terms of finding an "electable" candidate - if Florida primary voters choose someone, that person is probably more likely to win the general election in Florida.

Of course, John Kerry lost Iowa in 2004, so that plan might not work out so well.  Still, it at least makes some amount of sense, but because of my intense dislike of Florida's voting practices, I'd say this is not a good thing in general.


Rudy Giuliani hates firefighters. And puppies.
by Fran for Dean on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:34:57 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

The primary process should be about picking the BEST candidate, not the candidate that on-the-fence-Democrats would prefer.

What's the reason for national elections if two or three states decide elections, and in your opinion primaries?


by mattmfm on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:43:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

I'm all for scrapping the electoral college.  But the best candidate is the one that performs the best under the EC.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:49:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

Well I never said it was a good idea perse, just saying that it at least makes some sense if you want to choose the candidate that is most "electable."  If you'll recall, John Kerry's entire Iowa campaign was based on his electability.  I thought his case for electability was backwards, but at least a system which I described above would make a small amount of sense if that's what you believe a primary should be about.


Rudy Giuliani hates firefighters. And puppies.
by Fran for Dean on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:12:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (3.00 / 1)

The delegate-rich state decided the disputed 2000 presidential election.

I think that alone should disqualify Florida from having influcence over the Democratic primary for a good long while.


by splinterbrain on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:35:26 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (3.00 / 1)

I have always felt that the primary system needs to be changed to one of the two:

1. Every primary is on the same day.
2. Primary states are set by state size, smallest to biggest.

The primary is one of the only election process' that give power to the minority, in this case smaller states. It is disgraceful that Florida would move up their primary, don't they already have enough power? Bravo to both committees for threatening their action.


by mattmfm on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:41:36 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

lets just do this in September and get it over with already.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Thu May 03, 2007 at 04:28:33 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

I think in the long run this is a good thing.  It means that by the time of the general election in November, Florida will have figured out who they voted for.


by PatriotActor on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:13:59 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

Everyone hates the fact that two small states like Iowa and New Hampshire make such a big difference in the primary process.  But when a state that actually matters gets a bigger piece of the action, it's obnoxious?

I'm not saying I'm a huge fan of all this jockeying for position.  But it makes a big difference to me whether the Democrats win Florida in 2008, and thus it's relevant to my primary vote to know who Florida Democrats like the best.  It's a lot less relevant to me which candidate is best-liked in New Hampshire, let alone a state like South Carolina which has no prayer of going Dem anyway.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:19:54 PM EST

NATIONAL PRIMARY DAY (none / 0)

There should be one national primary date.  Further, make it a Sunday.  

Ditto for the general.


by ChicagoDude on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:44:02 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

It is time for the DNC to step up and stop this insanity and spank Florida.  Hard.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Fri May 04, 2007 at 02:49:52 AM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

The DNC and RNC already threatened to "spank Florida hard" -- but we don't care.  Howard Dean made it clear just days ago that the DNC will strip the state of nearly all delegates, refusing to recognize any delegates awarded in a pre-February 5 primary, and will disqualify any Florida delegates awarded to candidates who campaigned in the state's primary.  The RNC says they will slash Florida's delegate total by half.

The response was quick. The Florida House & Senate passed it unanimously, with support from Florida leaders in both major parties.

As for the candidates, and threats against them regarding delegates: Clinton, Obama, McCain, Romney all issued statements that they will all campaign in the early Florida primary.  "We don't have any say in setting the primary schedule but we intend to compete in any state that holds a primary or caucus," said Clinton's spokesman.


by Politics1 on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:50:01 PM EST

Re: Florida Moves Primary To January 29th (none / 0)

Politics1: I understand there is already some material backlash from this vote. Is that true?   If the DNC (I apologize but I do not know what the RNC has specifically said about this) strips Florida of 50% (or more) of the delegates, HRC (and Giuliani) will put so much pressure on Florida, that they will push it forward to 2/5, or later.  I bet you a dollar on it.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Fri May 04, 2007 at 06:03:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Retaliation? Florida won't care ... (none / 0)

So Florida gets fewer delegates by moving up its primary?  That doesn't matter because an earlier primary will give it more of an impact.  And ultimately, that's what it wants.  Like any state would.

Punishing states for moving up their primaries has been tried before, and it has absolutely no deterrent effect.  The early primary and all the media attention that it engenders is well worth any loss of delegates.

As a Californian, I opposed the February 5th primary because it wouldn't really give California more of an impact -- all it will do is push all the other states to move up their primary too and completely front-load the schedule so that only the wealthiest candidates can compete.

Now we're seeing this fool's errand in action.  California thought it was so clever to move up its primary, but now it will share February 5th with half the country -- while Florida deftly squeezes ahead of the pack.


by Paul Hogarth on Fri May 04, 2007 at 06:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Retaliation? Florida won't care ... (none / 0)

Paul: I am a California resident also and I have to tell you I am thrilled that our primary is on 2/5.  Why?, because California will be the definitve test on whether Obama can beat Clinton.  In my humble opinion, whoever wins the California Democratic primary will be the next President of the United States.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Fri May 04, 2007 at 07:09:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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