Not the Headline We Want on Iraq

The headline on the front page of tomorrow's edition of The Washington Post reads as follows: "Democrats Back Down On Iraq Timetable". Jonathan Weisman and Shailagh Murray have the rest of the story for the paper.

President Bush and congressional leaders began negotiating a second war funding bill yesterday, with Democrats offering the first major concession: an agreement to drop their demand for a timeline to bring troops home from Iraq.

Democrats backed off after the House failed, on a vote of 222 to 203, to override the president's veto of a $124 billion measure that would have required U.S. forces to begin withdrawing as early as July. But party leaders made it clear that the next bill will have to include language that influences war policy. Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) outlined a second measure that would step up Iraqi accountability, "transition" the U.S. military role and show "a reasonable way to end this war."

"We made our position clear. He made his position clear. Now it is time for us to try to work together," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) said after a White House meeting. "But make no mistake: Democrats are committed to ending this war."

There are a number of reasons why this is exactly the type of story the Democrats do not want to see on the issue of Iraq. To begin, and this is extremely important, on a policy level is well past time to bring American military involvement in the Iraq War to an end. America is investing too much, both in terms of dollars and lives, for a cause that is not winnable militarily. What's more, that which America can still accomplish in Iraq is not necessarily contingent on a continued military presence in the country. As such, the suggestion that the Democrats are giving up on the cause of ending the war is extremely problematic.

On a political level, too, standing down to the President on Iraq is quite problematic. While one can argue as to whether the Democrats were elected in 2006 to end the war in Iraq -- there is certainly a case to be made that this is true, but others might argue that the Democrats' mandate on the issue is more properly defined as bringing "change" to America's Iraq policy, whatever that means -- it is clear that a strong majority of Americans favor setting a timetable for the withdrawal of American troops from Iraq (57 percent, according to a recent Gallup poll; 59 percent according to a recent Pew Poll; 64 percent, according to a CBS News/New York Times poll; etc.). As such, there is real risk for the Democrats in not going far enough rather than going to far to end the Iraq War.

And on a meta level, headlines like this from The Post spell trouble for the Democrats. Josh Marshall has what he calls the Republican Bitch-Slap Theory of Politics which states, and I'm just paraphrasing here, that whenever the Republicans hit the Democrats and the Democrats don't hit back effectively -- whether in the case of John Kerry and the Swiftboats or the battle over ending the war in Iraq -- it makes the Democrats look weak, both as related to the specific issue but also more broadly ("Someone who can't or won't defend themselves certainly isn't someone you can depend upon to defend you", writes Marshall). By backing down so quickly on this issue, the Democrats don't exactly exude strength.

I will admit that I don't know exactly what the answer is on this issue. I tend to favor the strategy, espoused earlier by some including Jack Murtha, of sending legislation to the President that covers a more limited amount of time, funding the war for perhaps two or three months, and continue to do this until enough Republican votes are peeled off to force the President's hand. A number of Presidential candidates have layed out alternative strategies, with John Edwards advocating that the Democrats continue to pass the same bill they had already passed and force the President to continue to veto it, Bill Richardson favoring legislation that would deauthorize the war, and Chris Dodd backing legislation that would set a firm deadline, for example. Whatever the case, I'm quite skeptical that "back[ing] down" on a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, as The Post put it, is the best course of action for Congressional Democrats.



Display:


Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (3.00 / 4)

My preference is for a shorter term funding bill. Bush is going to try to change the topic over the next few months... his SOTU contained a lot of domestic policy proposals, and once this drops out of the headlines he'll likely try to push for those, just to get Iraq out of the headlines. But Iraq is too important, and we can't let him do that. A shorter term bill would keep the public debate focused on the most important issue of the day.
by gsteff on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:29:42 AM EST

Richardson's plan (none / 0)

Why hasnt anyone commented further on Richardson's plan to deauthorize the war.  It seems that if we really want to stop the war, thats a way to do it.  Is it considered too unlikely to happen?  I would say that from a political view it sounds better than refusing to fund the war.  Not that democrats are doing that with the bill they passed and Bush vetoed.


by DocD on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:30:29 AM EST

Re: Richardson's plan (seems a nonstarter) (none / 0)

I don't see how it would work. First, deauthorization probably won't pass the Senate - it's a tougher row to hoe than the bill we just squeaked through. Second, Bush can veto. I'm all for it as a political manouver but it's not going to end the war before 2009 and we need to try other strategies for that. The same applies to Reid/Feingold's and Dodd's plans. Murtha's and Edwards' plans could work. Benchmarks or readiness-based plans attached to the funding might too if Bush is so intransingent as to turn the entire populace against the war.


by curtadams on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:52:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Edward's plan won't work (none / 0)

because it won't pass. It's clear that Dems can't pass the bill again in either the House or the Senate -- their majorities were narrow in the first place and centrist dems have made it clear they won't vote for the same bill repeatedly after the veto. I wish this weren't the case but it is. The last thing we need to do is push for bills that won't pass.


by alw on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edward's plan won't work (3.00 / 1)

Edwards plan WOULD work and here's why:

It doesn't require a supermajority to overcome a veto.  All it requires is maintaining a simple majority to pass the bill again, and yet again, if necessary.  

Come July, or whenever the funding runs out, if things aren't resolved by then, George W. Bush will be faced with the dilemma of either signing the funding bill -- which enacts long-term timetables which can be overriden later, if necessary -- or of beginning the process of bringing troops home immediately because there's not enough money.

Let me add my own variation on this idea:  We should enact a funding bill for Afghanistan and everything else, first, and send that up to Bush, so we can separate Iraq from the rest of Bush's "Global War on Terror."  We should make it abundantly clear that the problem is not with the troops or the broader issue of America's foreign policy, but with Iraq and specifically just Iraq.

Otherwise, Bush might try to withdraw from Afghanistan to keep Iraq going, and to teach us all a lesson.


by Dumbo on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:51:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edward's plan will work (none / 0)

it makes the Democrats look weak, both as related to the specific issue but also more broadly
 To put it crudely, no shit Sherlock.  Duh.  The name of the bill is the Iraq Accountability Bill.  Have you heard Bush or the media call it by that name?  Hell no.  Emergency (5 years into the war) bill, supplemental bill, anything but "accountability".  Can you imagine any headlines that would say Bush vetoes "Iraq Accountability Bill" or Bush vetoes funding for the troops?

How many times can the Dems be stupid enough to get burned?  The Democrats simply need to state that "they do not negotiate with terrorists", and they intend to "stay the course". Then they need to do nothing but just keep sending back the same bill just like Edwards said. You want the money?  Here it is.  You don't, veto it.  Either way, Bush loses.  Why do the Dems always let somebody make them "own the problem".  If the Dems weren't weak, they wouldn't get suckered all the time.


Follow the money
by dkmich on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:08:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson's plan (seems a nonstarter) (none / 0)

Actually, according to the US Constitution, it is the congress that is endowed with the ability to  "To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;"

The President is the commander-in-chief of US armed forces, but in his military capacity, by law, is subordinate to the congress.  The president can tell the army what to do and where to go, but should act within overarching policies set by congress.  

If congress deauthorized the war by a majority vote, in order to reign in this president, could the president simply veto the deauthorization?  Wouldnt this be an usurpation of power by the executive, not intended by constitution?


John McCain loves war.
by Winston Smith on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson's plan (seems a nonstarter) (none / 0)

Did Bush have to sign the AUMF and the Iraq War Resolutions? If not, then your interpretation may be correct. If Bush did sign it like a regular law/bill, then that would argue that these sorts of things are treated in the same manner as laws, ie, the president can sign or veto and congress can override.

My thinking is that it would be subject to a veto. There is a constitutional case to be made, however, that the constitution exclusively grants that to congress and the president doesn't have the authority to veto war resolutions. However, the courts are likely to look at past practice and uphold whatever the tradition has been on similar measures in the past.


by AmericanJedi on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:38:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson's plan (seems a nonstarter) (none / 0)

Bush would just try to overturn the war powers act in court.  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:46:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson's plan (seems a nonstarter) (none / 0)

Congress never declared war on Iraq, so I doubt that passage would be considered relevant.


by aaronetc on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:43:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (3.00 / 2)

What's worse, is that the article paints the story of congressional Republicans coming in to save the day by agreeing to a much weaker bill that sounds tough but is symbolic and thereby putting themselves in opposition to Bush.  And thereby saving their asses electorally.

It is critical that Dem's hold out for something meaningful and force congressional Republicans to either agree to their plan to end this war, or to side with Bush.

Any scenario in which congressional Republicans get an option of putting themselves in opposition to Bush without signing on to a real plan to end this war is political disaster for us.  We have leverage if we keep it to "Agreed to Dem Plan" or "Bush Lock-stepper" - we can't give them the opportunity to distance themselves from Bush without getting real legislation out of them.

All that being said, I don't know if I'm going to fret about this article too much.  I think confirmation from other sources is required first.  For all we know, a pro-war'ish faction (eg. Blue Dogs) are pushing this line as accepted fact when it's not clear this is the direction the leadership is headed in.    

It is criti


John McCain: Fund Iraq? No problem! Kids Health Insurance? Screw 'em.
by PeterB on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:37:02 AM EST

Timelines are out (none / 0)

It's not just the Washington Post. Multiple sources are reporting the same thing -- I see no way that the Dems walk back on this. It is simply not going to happen in this supplemental. It's depressing but that's where we are at.

My most optimistic thought about this is that the Dem leadership read the votes they had and figured they would quickly swallow the loss they needed to so that the debate will from this point on be defined by pressure against the Republicans, and pressure aimed at dividing Congressional Republicans from the President. What's the best-case scenario for legislative action in a world where the supplemental doesn't include timetables? This is the real question that the left needs to deal with because this is the world that we are now in. I think the answer is two-fold
a) What is the best politics for the supplemental bill itself, if the Dems back away from a timetable for withdrawal?
b) What is the best legislative way to reintroduce timetables, deauthorization and a strategy for withdrawal in other bills that the House and Senate can put forward?


by alw on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:47:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Timelines are out (none / 0)

Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but I would still like to see those other sources first before assuming Dem's are caving.

I don't under stand your "Dem leadership should swallow the loss" comment.  Of course they lost this vote - congressional Republicans (except for the same 2 from the original bill) voted with Bush.  That's the point.  The Republicans held with Bush, bu they want this to go away because their stance is electorally toxic.  

If Dem's accept your argument (having a supplemental that doesn't include timetables is the "world we are now in"), then they'll answer Republicans' prayers to make this just disappear as an issue that identifies them with Bush on the war.  

What a shame it would be if we didn't have the resolve to press our advantage to force an end to this war.  


John McCain: Fund Iraq? No problem! Kids Health Insurance? Screw 'em.
by PeterB on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:45:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not so much (none / 0)

dem's accepting my argument, as the need of the left to accept the situation where it's at (not agree with or like, but accept). Whether or not it's a shame (I agree with you that it is), everything suggests (or, put more precisely, the cumulative weight of evidence, based on responses from any number of congressional leaders already suggests) that timelines are out.

I think to a large degree Democrats answered Republicans prayers -- but that's because party leaders quickly and clearly saw that they wouldn't have the votes for any bill to pass with timelines:   remember the House bill passed by only one vote (with, what, maybe six or seven more progressive Dems ready to support it if needed) and it seems clear that they would have lost many more than this if the tried to pass the bill again, or pass a bill with timelines. (You have Steny Hoyer, the majority leader coming out against this, for instance). It seems like they wanted to keep this conflict secret rather than make it public.  


by alw on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Timelines are out (3.00 / 1)

What is most interesting to me is: okay, so timetables are not a realistic goal, at least not until the next authorization bill. What about troop readiness requirements? Can those survive?


by mcc on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:22:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

good question (none / 0)

My understanding of this is that the troop readiness requirement already didn't have very much teeth -- since it would only entail Bush having to issue a waiver each time he sent troops in without the readiness that was required. But, still, this was the thing that Dems wanted -- to force Bush to do this. There hasn't been nearly as much talk about if Dems are sticking to this part of the supplemental -- compared to the timelines/benchmarks debate.


by alw on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:10:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

I guess my question is, if the leadership caves, will they be able to peel off enough votes from the Republican sto counter the fact that the progressive wing of the party is going to revolt?  Russ Feingold has already said that he's not voting for a bill that has no timeline.  If they lose the support of Feingold, Boxer, Kennedy, etc., they're going to have to pick up some Republicans or Lieberman.  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:38:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (2.66 / 3)


"We made our position clear. He made his position clear. Now it is time for us to try to work together," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) said after a White House meeting.

This sort of talk fits right into the frame that the White House was trying to set up - that we were only holding these votes to score political points. That's unacceptable.


by PsiFighter37 on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:39:10 AM EST

Wanna send a fresh message of strength? (3.00 / 1)

Head over to dailykos and vote in this poll.

It's in a diary I wrote called "Make Jim Webb the point person on Iraq."

The poll results and the diary w/ comments will be forwarded to the Democratic leadership.

If you'd like to Jim Webb out front right now...click on that link.


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:42:40 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

I would trade removal of timetables on Iraq for a clear agreement that Bush has to go through Congress for authorization before he can attack Iran.


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
by Anthony de Jesus on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:21:38 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (3.00 / 1)

It certainly didn't help that our leading presidential candidate said we would have to send the president a bill without a timetable until we get 17 Republicans to join our side.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:23:44 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (3.00 / 1)

The polls have only gotten better for anti-occupation since this all began.

Only DCDems would "back down" with 63% of the country in agreement with them.

And only the ever ruthless Bush Mafia could declare victory with 37% support.

Support for Democrats will go down as their own base is already calling them wimps.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:20:15 AM EST

Ghosts of '95 (3.00 / 3)

The Democratic congress is haunted by the ghosts of 1995.  After the GOP swept congress in the '94 election, they shut down the government, and were seen as obstructionist crybabies.  

I even remember that Gingrich went to Rabin's funeral aboard Airforce One, and as Speaker, expected to sit up front with the president, but was instead put at the back of the plane.  This was cited on cable news as one reason why the GOP was unwilling to work with Clinton.  

The GOP congress became so unpopular that they guaranteed Clinton's re-election.  It appears that this congress does not want to repeat this act.

For the Democrats to make this analogy is a huge mistake.  First, Clinton in '95 was a reasonable president.  He was more than willing to turn right to capitulate to the GOP.  He abandoned universal health care, and took up issues like welfare reform.  He was the antithesis of the current president, who is reckless, and adamantly refuses any compromise.  

Also, why did the Republicans shut down the government?  They wanted lower taxes or some shit?  They were just self-righteous egomanics.  There was not one massive issue that overwhelmed national attention, like the war in Iraq.  The Democrats have the overwhelming support of the people, and to back down on this issue to a president with Nixonian approval ratings would be a massive political and moral failure.  


John McCain loves war.
by Winston Smith on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:43:01 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

Well, I think the headline provides the "kick in the nuts" necessary to help Democrats understand that capitulation, against the public will, to a weak, unpopular president on the most disastrous issue of our day only weakens their electoral futures and the Party's brand.

Technically, the Democrats don't have to do anything. Without funding, federal law will require Bush to begin bringing the troops home, thus ending the occupation by default.

Politically, the Democratic leadership must espouse disciplined messages to inform the public and, most importantly, to counter spin the increased attacks from the administration and its surrogates in the media.

As I've stated in the past, the Dems resolve must be clear: No deals. Bush must take the money with accountability, or begin withdrawing the troops now.


by fafnir on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:56:05 AM EST

Political Theatre (none / 0)

The Dems' backing down so quickly makes Bush's charge look true - that this was just 'political theatre,' Beltway kabuki.

Fuck.


by RT on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:25:27 AM EST

No no no no no (none / 0)

If the leadership goes this route, the caucus should REVOLT.  If they do this stupid thing, whatever the should lose 110% in Democratic votes whatever they pick up in GOP votes.

Hopefully this will not happen, but if it does it should be Pelosi voting alone with the GOP caucus for this.  We (both as Democrats and as Americans) deserve better than this dumb-ass horseshit!


McCain sucks!
by teknofyl on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:42:38 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

This also validates Bush's talking points: that for Democrats, it was all just playing politics.  They didn't really mean it.

It would appear that the DC consultants who constantly counsel cowardace still hold too much influence in the halls of power.


by jonweasel on Thu May 03, 2007 at 06:48:42 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

Jonathan:

Actually, I think John Edwards has it right and I think the Democrats have been so screwed up for the last few years, they can't see straight.

They don't have to do a god damm thing but send the original bill back. It is so typical of the DC centrists to think they have to change something, they don't.

Send the same bill back (I wrote something over at HuffPost about it)

There is one side of this story.

We're right

They're wrong.

You don't compromise and become half right.

James


James Boyce
by jamesboyce on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:14:30 AM EST

They can't do this (none / 0)

The Democrats no longer have the votes to pass the same bill again. Many centrist dems have already indicated they would not support sending a bill back to the president that has been vetoed. I think that's unfortunate but this is the reality. Edwards's strategy is not a real strategy because it won't work and won't happen. If you wanted to take the tack of organizing around this -- trying to identify and "target" all the dems that wouldn't do this -- good luck. This could succeed in making a lot of noise, a lot of chaos and acrimony within the Democratic party -- but it won't change the outcome either. Unfortunately, our caucus is nowhere near being able to pass this bill again.


by alw on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:13:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

well, bully for the centrist dems (3.00 / 1)

Let them vote with the Republicans and the Dem Leadership for the "clean bill" they are apparently planning on. Any dem with a conscience will vote against it. And the list of names on that will be telling. And very useful to us as far as targeting idiot Democrats for instant vilification as "Bush Appeasers" and possibly a primary campaign against them. I can guarantee that I won't forget that vote.

After they are held up for public ridicule for a couple months and the politics of this plays out further, perhaps they will realize their mistake.


by AmericanJedi on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:53:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well, bully for the centrist dems (none / 0)

This is the point. It is better to fight and lose than to negotiate a bad bill. Those who vote for a funding bill with no requirement for ending the occupation can then be targetted.

By trying to appease the conservative Democrats, the Democratic leadership looks weak and ineffective. Stand up against these bullies. Let Bush, the Republicans, and conservative Democrats wrap themselves in the disastrous war/occupation policy -- the American public will be revolted by it and then we can oust them all in 2008.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by RandomNonviolence on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:58:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

The problem is,the only way you will stop this war while Bush is in power is by refusing to pass any funding bill unless it has a dateline....Lets say that Bush rejects every single dateline bill that the democrats sents him...Are you willing to take the chance that the public will be on your side once they see the troops arent getting the money for weapons,bullets food etc etc?...I wouldnt be so sure about that

I think the public would blame both party and the extreme partisanship.A similar events happened during the vietnam war and i suspect that if this were to become a partisan issue, i think whoever the  party in charge, would pay for not funding the troops.

One thing i've learned is, public opinion shift.In 2002 the electorate was extremely pro-war,but if you take a look at it now, the public is strongly an-war.Now let's say the Democrats says "NO" to any funding of the troops,then more troops started dying and choas breaks loose as the troops pulls out because there's no more money, are you ready to go on the limb and say the public would not shift again and blame a "vietnam-like" disaster on  the party that control congress?

I think the right thing for the Democrats to do is,stay out of the way.This war will end in 2009.Let him wage the war and do not take ownership of it now.It's a broken war, why would you want to inject yourself in it and open yourself up for criticism of loosing the war?

I strongly don't buy this theory that the electorate will stay on the side of the democrats if casualty doubles and Iraq descends into total chaos.You just can't make that claim.The electorate will shift again.If we get attack by terrorist on our soil, the electorate will turn "pro-war".If the withdrawal of troops causes casualty in Iraq to increase 10 fold, the electorate will make the party that in charge, pay.I'm 100% sure of this.Americans don't like loosing war.


by JaeHood on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:23:10 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (3.00 / 1)

Americans don't like losing wars, but I think most of them see it as 'already lost' and have already appropriated blame for that. Democrats have a potent shield in that regard: "Bush did it".

Dems may be "in charge" in congress, but Bush is actually "in charge" of the war. He makes that point quite often.

So, you argue "don't take ownership of and 'lose' the war now, so that in 2009 we can take ownership of the war and 'lose' it then"? Yeah, that makes perfect sense, given that we will essentially only be buying time with the lives that will be lost in the interim, only to be faced with the same choice then as we are now, except NOW we have the OPTION of doing our best to make sure the blame goes to the current president and his party, rather than ourselves (and given the current state of things, I don't think that that's a hard sell). Once we are in charge of everything, we have no such options and are in a worse position re: blame for losing Iraq.


by AmericanJedi on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:02:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

you are right, of course.  the dems who did not vote to override were conservative?  I thought they were the left.  I haven't looked.  but we do have to keep on and stand up.  we somehow had no strategy to deal with what we knew was coming.  that's not good.  I am incredibly upset although i know we'll come back.  It is up to all of us to keep hammering about how bad Iraq is and what we are doing to it.


alicew.
by ruthhmiller on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:23:57 AM EST

Both ... a short term funding bill and send the .. (none / 0)

... timetable back. So pass two funding bills, one for the next two months, and then one that picks up the following day with the timetable.

Keep forcing the Republicans to vote against the timetable. Keep forcing the President to veto it.

Do it often enough and every time that the President vetos the timetable, say that the President is using the troops as hostages because his policy is a failure.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:29:38 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

The Democratic leadership aren't stupid.The last thing you want to see is have Iraq turned into a "Vietna-like' scene where troops are running for their life jumping on helicopters while leaving millions of Iraqi civilians behind to get slaughtered by opposite sectarian groups.

You will see pictures of Iraqi families crying and begging troops to take them with them.I really don't think the Democrats wants to relive Vietnam because this was a war that was blamed on the party that controlled the funding.

I'm just not ready to say that, if violence increase 10fold, which it definitely will if we leave now,the electorate will not blame the party in charge.

The electorate always blames the party that's in charge when things are going badly, and my guess is the Dems will definitely suffer huge lost if Iraq's aftermath is similar to vietnam's.

The Dems has made their point.The Electorate are aware that the Dems are against the war.But to take it further would be a huge mistake.The elctorate knows that the President will have final say on this and they know know that the war will only end once he's out of office, but the electorate wants to make sure the troops have money so they can come home and not get killed before 2009.


by JaeHood on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:46:25 AM EST

this (none / 0)

What's more, that which America can still accomplish in Iraq is not necessarily contingent on a continued military presence in the country.

If you talk to Bill Richardson or John Murtha, they'll tell that the things we can still accomplish in the country are actually made more difficult by our continued military presence there. We're making the Iraqi peace process more difficult. It's a dead weight loss.


Progress is Personal | Connie Brennan | My opinions are mine alone
by msnook on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:58:48 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

Why not have a showdown with Bush?  We don't need a supermajority to simply NOT pass funding.  

Keep sending him a withdraw by March 2008 bill.  If Bush vetoes it and shuts down military funding then Bush will have to explain why he did that.  He'll have to explain to the clear majority who oppose his policy why he is willing to shut down military funding to have his way.

Why not stand up for a change instead of always acting like a bunch of frightened pussies?


by Disturbance on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:02:40 AM EST

you don't need to be so picky... (none / 0)

just because the newspaper uses that headline doesn't mean that that is what congress is going to do.

Everyone knows that the Democrats want to end the war and that the Republicans don't.  And any future legislation will likely reinforce that notion.


d
by d on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:08:23 AM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

The main policy question facing the American electorate and their elected representatives is not merely whether to fund a continuation of the Iraqi occupation without a timetable.

It is also whether the electorate and their representatives want to authorize the Bush administration to continue bankrupting the U.S. by tax policies that favor the rich and do not generate enough revenues to fight the war or protect the U.S. homeland.

The real question is whether Americans want their representatives to authorize the Bush administration to continue to borrow billions of dollars a month from foreign countries and economic competitors like China to fight a war that is decreasing U.S. national security and causing the deaths not only of U.S. troops but tens of thousands of Iraqis.

Do they want to add to their tax bills and those of their children the payments on interest and principal that this borrowed money is going to extract from their income over the next century?

Do Americans want to continue to spend more than $600 billion a year on defense and the Bush administration's occupation of Iraq when there is not enough money coming into the federal government to cover its entitlement obligations or adequately secure the U.S. homeland from terrorist attacks?

All the pretexts for continuing the occupation fall by the wayside when compared to these trade-offs and contrasted to the dire financial straits in which the American people find themselves at home.

If it were put to a vote, there is little doubt in my mind that the vast majority of Americans would prefer to transfer the money being spent on the lost war in Iraq and the Bush administration's bloated defense budget to providing universal, government funded health insurance and adequate protection of the U.S. homeland.

That the U.S. Congress can act so irresponsibly and illogically from a financial point of view and also flagrantly disregard public opinion polls and the results of the 2006 midterm elections favoring a rapid end to the war shows that there is a tragic disconnect between what the American people want and what Congress does. In the end, it is the American people who will pay for the ill-advised policy decisions of a Congress that does not represent their views or protect their vital interests.


Nancy Bordier is the founder of Citizens' Winning Hands (www.citizenswinninghands.net)
by Nancy Bordier on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:33:48 AM EST

Pelosi is denying the story (3.00 / 1)

TPM reporting that Pelosi has talked to the Democratic caucus to tell them that Weisman's story is untrue. No decision has been made to back down on timetables.

Link:
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesm outh/2007/05/pelosis_office.php


by Spiffarino on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:33:30 AM EST

UPDATE (none / 0)

Apparently, the story is false.  

So now the question is "why did this phony story see the light of day?"  

Is it because "Democrats capitulate" is the only narrative the media whores know?
.


by Grand Moff Texan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 12:16:48 PM EST

Re: Not the Headline We Want on Iraq (none / 0)

Folks, let's face the truth here.  We are not going to end the war before 2009.  President Bush is prepared to play very hardball on this.  He'll simply leave the troops in place and dare the Democrats to defund the fighters.  We can't do that and survive politically.  

Can you see the headlines?  "Democrats Leave Troops Stranded" and "Democrats Deny Ammunition to the Troops".  The list is endless and all bad for us.

We'd be back in the wilderness before the ink dries on the ballots.

The best option, in my view, is short term funding that makes the GOP keep voting for the war.  Going after timelines was a mistake, the other guy does not care what anyone says.  He's not running for anything and we already know he doesn't give a damn what happens to the GOP.  He showed us that by not firing Sec. Rumsfeld until after the election, not when it would do the party some good.  They know it too, and they're getting twitchy.  

Bush is at his defiant best right now, proving he's a tough guy. We're playing to his strength.


by zak822 on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:11:21 PM EST


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