Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it wrong

(cross-posted at Daily Kos)

The blogosphere is abuzz today with the news that Barack Obama's presidential campaign took control of its MySpace domain after initially working with the previous holder of that user ID, Joe Anthony, for no cost. Here's a sampling of the reaction at some of the major liberal blogs. After turning down what they viewed as the high cost - $39,000 - for the rights to control of the site, the Obama campaign, working with MySpace, was granted full control without having to pay Anthony.

The general reaction from the leading blogs - Daily Kos, MyDD, and Eschaton - seem to indicate that they believe the Obama campaign screwed Anthony over big time. I do agree that the Obama campaign could have handled the issue more tactfully. That being said, the blogosphere criticism seems to show an underlying lack of understanding about the functioning of social networking websites such as MySpace. Follow me beneath the fold for analysis...

Here's some of the reaction from the major liberal blogs:

Daily Kos:


Shitting on your biggest supporters is generally not a wise thing to do.

Eschaton:


I may just be getting old, so I've never really understood Myspace as anything other than a place to sample songs, but I really don't understand the tendency to treat volunteers as disposable. 50 grand is chump change.

Jerome Armstrong at MyDD (this is the article that both Kos and Atrios linked to):


Yea, $49K to deliver 160,000 supporters; that's .32 cents each for opted in and engaged activsts. A bargain. [The amount was actually up to $44K] $50,000 is what it takes to advertise on the Liberal Ad Network for two weeks. It's a minor expenditure in the grand scheme of things.

Matt Stoller at MyDD:


There is nothing unusual about such a conflict between the open world of Joe Anthony and the gatekeeping world of David Axelrod.  The open world is fairly relaxed and encourages sharing control and power with all stakeholders.  The gatekeeper world is all about control and turning everyone into a signholder.  The likely scenario here is that the Obama internet team promoted the unofficial page because it was cool and relaxed, and then adult supervision scared them into believing they needed control.  They put pressure on Anthony, who valued his own work.  The Obama campaign couldn't both stomach the need for control and the real moral need to value the work done by Anthony, and so it appears the campaign just lied and threatened him.  This is standard Democratic politics, only when you put it on the internet, it looks really bad.

I don't really know that this episode is particularly important in the context of who will win in 2008, but it is interesting.  This is the exact definition of a campaign treating people like an ATM.  And this brings me back to the movement that's being created, because while this seems like a small episode, it's actually events like this that in some ways help form our movement.  Joe Anthony will never forget this, and it's pretty obvious he's good at leading large groups of people.  Anthony will never trust campaign operatives again, and hopefully, he'll plug into the Democratic Party somewhere else.

My main contention is this: all of the above analysis completely ignores the actual function of social networking websites. They are not the same as the netroots by any stretch of the mind. To be, this is typified in these two responses in their respective threads:

Kos, in responding to a comment that Obama should be able to control his message:


that's what the (10+ / 0-)

DC consultants argue.

Which is fine, if Obama wants to run a traditional campaign rather than a people-powered one.

And Jerome's response to my assertion that the 160,000+ friends that the unofficial MySpace profile had were not 'engaged activists':


They are not supporters that are engaged enough to have opted in? That's a ridiculous claim.

I'm going to address the matter as a 21 year-old college student. MySpace, Facebook, and other such social networking sites are dominated, in terms of activity, by people my age - not those as old as Kos and Jerome, or even Stoller, who is ahead of me by 8 years or so. And first and foremost, these websites are not used for political purposes. They're used for socializing in the form of listing your interests, posting pictures, and commenting on other people's profiles. This leads to people spending lots of time at these sites, but mainly as an incidental activity. Don't believe me? I walk through Wharton, the top undergraduate business school in the country, and I always see people looking at posted pictures and other students' Facebook profiles while they are studying. The use of these websites is largely not used in a constructive fashion, per se, but as more of a distraction while studying and filler in the down times that people have. That's why the idea that 160,000 friends - or even the 300,000+ members of an unofficial Barack Obama Facebook group - do not constitute 'engaged activists' who have 'opted in' by any means. Friends on Facebook and MySpace do not mean they are your 'friends'; all it could be is a gesture of interest at one point in time - nothing more.

Yes, there are definitely those who are heavily involved. For example, Students for Barack Obama - which started out as a Facebook group - started its own organization with a national and state organization. It's now become an official part of the campaign. Nevertheless, it is still a minority of students that are in these groups or that are friends with a MySpace profile that will provide more than just a vote, or even tangential interest.

The second issue is the cost. Setting up a MySpace profile or a Facebook group does not require much effort. Putting up pictures, posting updates, and writing general information is not that time-consuming. Here's an excerpt from Micah Sifry's writeup on the incident:


Anthony's request to be compensated for all the work he was putting into Obama's Myspace page--anywhere from five to ten hours a day--was the final straw, apparently. After kicking around various ideas including hiring him or making him a consultant, the Obama people asked Anthony to propose a one-time consulting fee. In exchange he would give them control of the page, with credit for the work he had put into it.

"I went for a four mile walk to think about it," he told me, continuing:


I considered the time I had put into it from January 1st of this year, not counting the previous two years. It was about $39,000. Plus I asked that if any fees were to be paid to MySpace by the campaign up to that point in time, those should be shared with me, up to $10,000. There was no counter-offer. They said they didn't have any money.

$39,000 is an obscene amount of money to be paid over a period of 4 months to maintain an unofficial profile on MySpace. That's not to say that one cannot make a living off of work done on MySpace, Tila Tequila is largely a celebrity because of her MySpace profile. But what services was Anthony providing that could possibly have been worth that much money? Tequila has a career in modeling, acting, and music (discussions on whether her skills in those fields merit her pay is entirely another issue). For me, the most that Anthony could have done (I'll be honest - I did not view his MySpace site before it was changed over to the official one) would be to post updates, links, and video and pictures taken by others, along with confirming friend requests. That is something that can easily be done in-house, much less at a cost of what amounts to nearly $120,000 on an annualized basis. It is true that if one is really into MySpace or Facebook, time can be sucked up quite quickly. That being said, Anthony should have realized that demanding what is an exorbitant amount of money for services that aren't particularly specialized or require much technical know-how beforehand was going to met with hostility. Simply put, you cannot evaluate the value of a contact list of 160,000 - particularly when you don't have access to their email address, their snail mail addresses, and are likely friends for the sake of it instead of being an engaged activist.

I understand that 'people-powered politics' is about letting us - ordinary people - have the power to go out and make a difference. But that doesn't mean that there shouldn't be some guidance as to how the campaign is run. In Anthony's case, it doesn't even seem like he was necessarily positing Obama as a candidate in a fashion that was remarkably different from how others were. And by making such a big case about this, the netroots has vastly overrated the power of social networking websites in the political arena - because they do not understand that the vast majority of these websites are utilized in a way that does not promote real political activity. Should the Obama campaign compensated Anthony in some fashion? Yes, so long as the request was reasonable. $39,000 for 4 months of work is not reasonable. People can rip on media consultants for the ridiculous amount they make, but that doesn't mean that others should be paid in a similar fashion.



Display:


Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (3.00 / 1)

Sorry to pimp my own diary, but it's pretty relevant:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/5/2/14124 3/2654

...in which I include, among other things, the actual MySpace usage policies.


by Brainwrap on Wed May 02, 2007 at 02:33:57 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (3.00 / 0)

Obama campaign should've called the police. This myspace "criminal" tried to get Obama to give him $50,000 of the money "REAL" Obama supporters raised.    Extortion is illegal.


by vamonticello on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:55:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

Pimping my own diary too from January when the "1 Million Strong for Obama" Facebook group first came out:

Obama, Facebook, and Threesomes

And it should be noted, since its at 324K members currently, that threesomes are STILL vastly more popular to the Facebook crowd than Obama.


Leftmost Bit
by Luigi Montanez on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

OK, then let me pimp my diary as well.

Look at the criticism and follow the money.  I believe that the Obama campaign is going to be more heavily criticized by people who aspire to or are currently engaged in professional political blogging and netroots activity because it sets a cap on how much their efforts are worth.


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
by Anthony de Jesus on Thu May 03, 2007 at 05:46:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What you get wrong (3.00 / 1)

Your entire argument is that a website like this is not very useful for politics, and thus Anthony should have not been paid $39K, or $44K, or whatever.

So I ask you: is $0.00 a reasonable compensation? If it isn't, then the Obama campaign fucked up.
by Chris Bowers on Wed May 02, 2007 at 02:53:11 PM EST

Re: What you get wrong (3.00 / 3)

What I find strange is that Obama supporters have been trumpeting the importance of social networking sites like MySpace for last several months, but suddenly, all these MySpace contacts are meaningless, not worth Anthony's time, and certainly not worth the Obama campaign's money.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (none / 0)

The number of friends was impressive, but very few Obama supporters equated that to fundraising or activist success.  WHAT WE DID trumpet was his website incorporating social networking... THAT is the big thing, not this.


by yitbos96bb on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (3.00 / 3)

As Adam B has pointed out in other posts and comments the problem with the idea of reasonable and just compensation is twofold

1) nothing was actually taken from Anthony given that all the content of the cite was to be transferred to another url. Thus, all his effort is not being deleted or taken away. representations to the contrary are false.

2) Joe created this problem by choosing the url, myspace.com/barackobama. This is cybersquatting, pure and simple. Even if you love Barack Obama, when you choose the name of a public figure you have to expect at some point they are going to want to control their official message.

The Obama people should fix this and make amends. But given that all anthony's work is still available to him and that his page only became popular because it was named barack obama, he shouldn't expect much. The diea that anthony's work was the what created 160,000 friends is ridiculous, It was the barack obama name.


by dpg220 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (3.00 / 1)

2) Joe created this problem by choosing the url, myspace.com/barackobama. This is cybersquatting, pure and simple. Even if you love Barack Obama, when you choose the name of a public figure you have to expect at some point they are going to want to control their official message.

Exactly.  I wonder how many of those putative 160k friends signed up thinking maybe they were signing up to something from Obama himself.  That'd be understandable since, you know, it has his name.


Independent Illinois Grassroots: IllinoisDemNet.com
by patachon on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:10:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (none / 0)

Exactly.  Joe A traded on Obama's reputation, position, and fame.  

The only wrong I see is that obama's people didn't have the wisdom to demand the url the day obama announced.  


by RadRobin on Thu May 03, 2007 at 01:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (none / 0)

Sorry, but Joe had been promoting Obama since 2004.  If Obama had a problem with Joe using his name, he should have dealt with it well before he announced.   By raising no objection to Joe's use of the URL for well over two years (including his own Senate campaign period) Obama failed to take the action necessary to protect his name.

As Chris has indicated, what Obama did is a classic "Beltway" power move --- the exact kind of thing that we expect from the Rahm Emmanuels and Steny Hoyers of the Democratic Party.  I wasn't much of an Obama fan before, but would probably have supported him over Hillary if they were the last two candidates standing by the time the PA primary came around.  But after this, Hillary gets my vote---at least I know what I'm getting by supporting Hillary, with Obama all we know is that his image stands in stark contrast to the actions of his campaign.


by plukasiak on Thu May 03, 2007 at 08:30:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (none / 0)

Are candidates all required to use myspace?  I doubt Obama knew what it was and/or knew he had an unnofficial page on there in 2004.  That's a poor basis to criticize him on.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:20:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (none / 0)

It's his name. It belongs to him. To say that "By raising no objection to Joe's use of the URL for well over two years (including his own Senate campaign period) Obama failed to take the action necessary to protect his name." is nonsense.

He made a deal with Anthony that he could continue to administer Barack Obamas Myspace page in return for Obama having the password. Anthony reneged on that deal.

It's a real shame he loses HIS friends list over this. I guarantee all those people signed up to be friends with Barack Obama and not Anthony.


by Mystylplx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (none / 0)

It's not cybersquatting. It's foresight. A lot of people have made a lot of money selling the names of their domains. The MySpace site wasn't a domain name, but still, this is America, dude (or dudette.)


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:15:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What you get wrong (1.33 / 3)

You are just so plain wrong on this subject Chris it is appalling.  You are a much smarter guy than your ranting on this issue makes you come across.  


by yitbos96bb on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is a reasonable compensation for extortion (3.00 / 2)

Because that is what Anthony did: attempt to extort $44,000 of publicly-raised donations from a Presidential campaign.

I'm tired of this attitude that "people power" equates to our candidates running just as scared of blogosphere muscle as they used to run of the DLC and K Street.  The people power revolution was supposed to make candidates responsive to their constituents, not to a few techies behind a computer.  I don't care how much work Anthony put into it; you extort a Presidential campaign, you get squat.  Kudos to Obama for standing up to this muscling operation, and shame on the blogosphere for attacking him.

(Disclaimer: I am an Edwards supporter.)


ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future
by Nonpartisan on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Price negotiation (3.00 / 1)

From the accounts of Joe Rospars and Joe Anthony the process went something like this...

1. Joe Anthony starts MySpace page, it's a big hit

  1. Obama campaign offers Joe Anthony a paid job in Chicago
  2. Joe Anthony refuses, prefers to stay in his other full-time job on West Coast and volunteer part-time
  3. Obama campaign tries to codify some kind of permanent access with Anthony to the MySpace page so it can be monitored 24/7, becomes increasingly frustrated co-ordinating with part-time volunteer, lack of accountability on MySpace/Obama page
  4. Obama campaign states Joe Anthony changed password to MySpace page and a negotiation begins between Obama campaign/Anthony for a one-time fee of $39,000+ to turn-over myspace.com/barackobama to Barack Obama.
  5. Obama campaign says 'No'. Fails to make a counteroffer, asks MySpace.com for the Myspace.com/barackobama domain and MySpace complies.

So the Obama campaign DID offer Anthony a paid-job, he refused. Then as time passed either Anthony demanded a one-time fee or was asked to present a figure. The size of the figure was offered by Anthony in his original post - $39,000 for the work done in 2007. That is likely 1000% more than the Obama campaign was willing to pay. $39K is 9% of Gov. Huckabee's entire campaign chest. And a MySpace page is plug-n-play, not skilled design work.

So what is the big sin of the Obama campaign - not making a counter-offer? The first offer was a paid staffer job in Chicago. Anthony refused. The counter offer was a one-time fee for rights. Anthony responded with $39,000 (and was holding the password to the site as leverage according to Rospars). Should the Obama campaign have made a third offer? If you are selling a great bike on Craigslist for $500 and somebody comes by you apartment to see it and offers you $50 bucks do you continue to negotiate or throw the guy out?

I repect your opinion and believe you are honestly expressing important points abou paying for party building work but there is an undercurrent in some  posts that the Obama campaign should have paid the $39,000 to maintain good relations with the online community, not that the list of anonymous names without contact info on the MySpace friends list was worth $39,000. I don't think it's ethical to 'make the problem go away', I think the Obama campaign met it's ethical repsonsibilities by offering Anthony a paid staff job and entering into a one-time fee agreement. It's Anthony who didn't meet his ethical responsibilities by not doing any kind of due dilegence on what other campaign staff make and by using the password as leverage (if Rospars story gets collaborated) to get a big payoff for what Anthony himself described as volunteer work.


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:58:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The amount is not that far out of line. (3.00 / 0)

Others can get large amounts for Internet help and advise.

I don't think $39-44 is out of line.


Check out the New Progressive Blog EENRBLOG
by dk2 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:06:41 PM EST

Re: The amount is not that far out of line. (3.00 / 1)

Not if NO ONE ASKED HIM TO DO THE WORK.

If some guy drives up to your house and starts mowing your lawn without you asking him to, no matter how good of a job he does, it's out of line for him to then insist that you pay him for mowing it. You never asked him to mow your lawn in the first place.

Now, it might be NICE to do so, and it might be a smart move if there are people watching who you want to like you more (ie, voters), but there's nothing wrong with just saying "hey, thanks, nice job!" and then saying goodbye. You're well within your rights to do so. Is it a WISE move? Perhaps not, if you're running for President, but there's nothing "wrong" about it either.


by Brainwrap on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The amount is not that far out of line. (none / 0)

plus, the point everyone keeps missing.

if you mow the other guys yard, and get nothing in return, you have nothing to show for it.

But this kid still has all the content and contacts he built, just under a new url. That's the point, all the time he put in is still his. he hasn't lost anything.


by dpg220 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The amount . (3.00 / 1)

plus, the point everyone keeps missing.

if you mow the other guys yard, and get nothing in return, you have nothing to show for it.

But this kid still has all the content and contacts he built, just under a new url. That's the point, all the time he put in is still his. he hasn't lost anything.


by dpg220 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:43:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are the contacts really his? (none / 0)

I don't know that it's fair that he gets to keep the contacts, considering that the vast majority of the 160,000 came because MySpace was promoting his URL as the official Obama group. That had nothing to do with Anthony's promotional abilities. How many contacts would he have had if he'd had a different URL from the beginning and hadn't appeared to be the Obama group?


DC Drinking LiberallyDC for Democracy

by KCinDC on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:45:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The amount is not that far out of line. (none / 0)

Huh? Let's say that you mow a guy's lawn for no money and build a company out of your efforts. That would be a better analogy.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:08:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If 39k is too much... (3.00 / 2)

then the reaction is to offer what you believe to be the appropriate amount of money.  Not a "Ok, well, then we'll just take your work for free."    


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 03:16:58 PM EST

Re: If 39k is too much... (3.00 / 1)

Not only that, but what blew this thing up was the way he was treated.   Supposedly EVERY DAY for two weeks they had scheduled a conference call to get this straightened out.  And EVERY DAY they referred him to the next day to try it again.   After a week of that you start to get the hint that these people are just playing you for a fool, that they are just stalling.   As it turned out, that is exactly what they did while behind his back getting with Myspace to take over the domain.   The guy was treated shabbily, no question about it.   And, to think, he was probably the biggest Obama "fan" and supporter of them all, worked to "get the word out" about the man before it became fashionable to do so.  


by georgep on Wed May 02, 2007 at 04:53:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If 39k is too much... (none / 0)

The problem is though, we are taking one guys word for that.  It is definately possible he was mistreated; its equally possible he is exagerating.  We don't really know is the problem.  The situation was handled poorly, I agree.  But Anthony is not the big victim he is being portrayed as.


by yitbos96bb on Wed May 02, 2007 at 05:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If 39k is too much... (3.00 / 1)

He is the victim right now to everyone but supporters, and even some of those aren't thrilled with the way he was treated.  The Obama campaign has to fix it asap.  


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:04:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If 39k is too much... (none / 0)

Being asked to come back every day for two weeks is annoying, but not to the tune of 40 grand.


by Mystylplx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:19:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

Obviously this could have been handled better however I disagree with the idea that some person at the top deserves a huge amount of money.

I think that is just a misunderstanding of how the internet works.  Those 160,000 people did not sign up because of the guy who created that myspace page.  They signed up because of Obama.

If someone else had done that myspace page they would have gotten probably a similar response.  It was the 160,000 people who deserved some part of that money(not really, but you see my point).  

Currently the internet is more focused around a I own it therefore I should profit off of all your work model, but that doesn't make that a good thing.


by sterra on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:20:47 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

Yes, and it's a shame that Barack Obama loses HIS myspace friends list because of an extortionist who hijacked HIS name and reneged on his agreement.


by Mystylplx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (3.00 / 0)

I think if the guy was a real Obama supporter, he would be thrilled that the campaign thought so much of his work as to want to make it their own.  If it was me, I would not have asked for a dime.  


by KDJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:30:57 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

I agree


by vamonticello on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:54:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

This isn't the new kind of politics I had in mind. In the long run, I really don't see Obama jiving with the netroots. Sure, he's young and tech friendly, he actually opposed the Iraq war from the start and the rockstar hype has driven him to a good start in the netroots. But, I think he will continue to bleed support to Edwards, a candidate who when told to jump by the netroots, he asks "how high?"


by alarabi7 on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:40:05 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (3.00 / 1)

and you think asking how high when told to jump is a good thing from a politician? They should certainly listen to their base but I want someone who comes to the job with good judgment and can make informed decisions without jumping through the hoops of the person most likely to get them elected.

Obama '08


by commoncents on Wed May 02, 2007 at 07:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

i don't get it.. why should he pay a dime?? its his name.. obama's starting from scratch.. they will be back up to 160K in no time.. whats the big deal??

and as i posted elsewhere..the guy hardly did anything but click to accept new friends.. he did not design myspace!


by serge in dc on Wed May 02, 2007 at 06:57:30 PM EST

Obama campaign should give him (3.00 / 1)

a reward (about $10K sounds good for the effort he had put in), and keep a friend in him. It's easy to this right. Duh.


by NuevoLiberal on Wed May 02, 2007 at 07:36:00 PM EST

Re: Obama campaign should give him (none / 0)

not anymore!


by serge in dc on Wed May 02, 2007 at 07:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: (none / 0)

doing what?? clicking accept??

two years to for a myspace page??


by serge in dc on Wed May 02, 2007 at 07:51:09 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

It's really bad form to disclose the other's sides offers from a failed negotiation.  Obama's campaign was hardly negotiating in good faith when they didn't make a counter offer and just took what they want it.


by Monkey In Chief on Wed May 02, 2007 at 07:56:20 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

How do you know they didn't make a counter-offer?


by Mystylplx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting .... (none / 0)

.... how all the hardcore HLC and Edwards fans are soooo concerned about this guy. :-)

Look, I don't know enough to tell whether or not the guy was treated fairly, but I do know this does absolutely nothing to change my opinion of Obama.

It strikes me as a tempest in a teapot.


by upper left on Wed May 02, 2007 at 08:19:18 PM EST

I'm not concerned (none / 0)

it's interesting to watch from the sidelines...

I can't tell yet if Obama's campaign did anything wrong cause at this point it seems he said/she said


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Wed May 02, 2007 at 09:25:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting .... (none / 0)

The "sooooo concerned" people you are referring to making the strongest statements are Bowers, Stoller, Kos, Armstrong, et al.  Strange how their concerns are readily dismissed as nothing but "supporter" stuff.  


by georgep on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:12:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting .... (none / 0)

None of whom support Obama, and all of whom have a rather advanced interest in the issue of financial support for the netroots.

None of us know what actually happened.  My mamma always told me to keep my mouth shut about subjects I know nothing about.  

Most of what is in this thread is pure spin on both sides. It is amazing and disgusting that this subject draws more posts than the war. Again, a tempest in a teapot.


by upper left on Fri May 04, 2007 at 09:10:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Big Obama = Big Government? (none / 0)

This was handled poorly and the Obama camp should have at least made a counter-offer in negotiations. The problem with an outcome like this is that it makes Obama look SO MUCH like the government he says he wants to change.


by anotherme on Wed May 02, 2007 at 09:58:53 PM EST

Counter offer? How about zero? (none / 0)

Why the hell should they pay money to someone for hijacking the 'official' campaign page? Just because he was the first to register it under Obama's name? Why should people be allowed to do that at all?


by mihan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Counter offer? How about zero? (none / 0)

Myspace is notorious about exactly this sort of issue. There are scumbags like this all over myspace who set up a celebrity page as if the page were really from the celebrity. Sometimes it's innocent--sometimes it's all about generating a huge friends list which they can then sell or rent to scamers and spammers.

I think it's become clear what catagory Anthony falls into. He was in this to sell Barack Obama's friends list. And when Barack refused to be extorted myspace, bizarrely, allowed this scumbag to steal his (Obama's) friends list. He now says he figures he can still get $20,000 for it.

I'll bet 20 to 1 that this Anthony has LOTS of other phony celebrity pages collecting huge friends lists of people who really believe it is the celebrity they are befriending.

The 'gold' in such lists is all the "private" profiles they can collect in this way. People who have chosen to keep their profiles private from anyone who's not on their friends list have a rude awakening in store when Anthony opens the bidding.


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Counter offer? How about zero? (none / 0)

You just flew over the edge. Joe Anthony as a professional cybersquatter? Are you just trying to piss people off? Are you really an Obama supporter?


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Counter offer? How about zero? (none / 0)

The only thing I know about Joe Anthony is what's transpired in this case. Maybe he's really a nice guy who just had a psychotic break?

Perhaps he can prove otherwise by giving Obama's friends list back. Or barring that he should pledge to not sell it. He should also send a message to everyone on the list letting them know that when they friended Barack Obama they were really friending Joe Anthony.


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: (none / 0)

One question: If a price is put on netroots support, how are the netroots any different from a corporate PAC?


by KDJ on Wed May 02, 2007 at 10:29:52 PM EST

Why the blogosphere got it wrong (none / 0)

I was an Obama supporter pre-Myspace friending him.  To assume all his myspace friends were bagged solely by that guy is farce.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Wed May 02, 2007 at 10:39:34 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (2.00 / 2)

Every little thing Obama does is being BLOWN out of proportion.  The media needs to focus on more important things.


by vamonticello on Wed May 02, 2007 at 11:11:55 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

Amen. Obama refuses to allow HIS name to be hijacked by an extortionist and everyone thinks he's the bad guy for not paying the extortion money.


by Mystylplx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:26:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good diary but 39K is not obscene (none / 0)

I persnally do not think 39 grand is an obscene amount of money , (especially when you consider the amount could probably be nefgotiated to a lower amount)when you consider how much routinely gets wasted in such campaigns on equivalent "trivial" work. One of my points in another thread is why do politicians choose to stand on principle when it comes to dealing with their sincere supporters? Even if one thinks, Anthony overassessed his own contribution, why does a major campaign feel free to deal harshly with one guy while theyhave no problem being very cautious in other areas?

But other than that, your diary does make good points and I recommend it.


by Pravin on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:33:39 AM EST

Re: good diary but 39K is not obscene (none / 0)

Extortion is ILLEGAL


by vamonticello on Thu May 03, 2007 at 02:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (none / 0)

Pravin- So you have no problem with netroots support being sold like that of a corporate PAC?


by KDJ on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:50:19 AM EST

Corporate PAC???? (none / 0)

What are you talking about?


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Thu May 03, 2007 at 11:59:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it (1.00 / 1)

"You want my help, Barack, pay me."  That sounds a lot like what Duke Cunningham told defense contractors.  I just think that when the netroots starts to sell their support, they cheapen their support and make its no more significant than a purchased state party voter list.


by KDJ on Thu May 03, 2007 at 12:31:21 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: (none / 0)

I agree. If you do something and someone wants what you did, compensation is the higher road.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:00:47 PM EST

Re: Obama and MySpace: (none / 0)

He was an unsolicited volunteer who turned into an attempted extortionist.


by Mystylplx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 03:23:12 PM EST

It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

... that he has a loyal cadre of supporters who will back him no matter what he or his campaign/administration does.

Hold your horses, I'm not an Edwards supporter. I've got no dog in this fight. Here is what we know for sure....

1) A guy starts a myspace profile for a candidate who inspired him

2) The guy maintains this labor of love for about two odd years, doing the work of updating content, approving new members and possibly answering tons of email.

I don't understand how any of you Obama supporters question this kid's motivations. For starters, no one thought Obama would run for President after just two years in the Senate. To say that this guy was waiting for a big payday is ridiculous. What we seem to have is a well intentioned kid looking to get paid for handing off his creation to the Obama campaign. Quibble about the amount he asked for, but don't question his intentions.

Obama, like every politician, is going have some real slimeballs working for him. I'm sure one of said slimeball 'consultants' decided to muscle this kid rather than engage in a good faith negotiation. If you want Obama to win, don't expect his campaign to embody Obama's own lofty ideals. Give the kid a break.


by crazymoloch on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:08:39 PM EST

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

What bothers me is that people can start up MySpace profiles in someone else's name, and in this case, masqueraded as an official site. I can't imagine what could possibly be wrong with a campaign having control of its own site.

Beyond that, I don't believe for a second that most of the people 'friends' list on MySpace really care about some guy who just happened to be running the site. MySpace friends lists aren't really an indicator of involved support, and these people are supporting Obama anyway, not this Joe Andrews guy.


by mihan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:18:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

1) It wasn't their profile to control.

2) The campaign didn't seem to mind his work for the first two years.

MySpace lists are pretty useless, I take it?

Of course these people are supporting Obama. Give the guy some credit for organizing/channeling this support. Campaigns value this. Being able to communicate with 160k supporters isn't nothing.


by crazymoloch on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

It WAS there profile to control. It had his name on it and was represented by Anthony as Barack Obama's myspace page.

It's funny when you read Anthony's explanation--he keeps refering to it as "his" page and saying things like "this community that I created." He stops just short of talking about "his" campaign for President.

Maybe after masquerading as Obama for so long on myspace he really started to believe it.


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

I am glad that we have reality-impaired supporters just like Republicans.


by crazymoloch on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

Yeah, clearly your grasp of reality is superb. Somehow you believe that people can register accounts under names that are not their own, spend two years doing little more than clicking to add to the friends list and then finding it perfectly reasonable to try and extort money for control over the contents of the official candidate profile.

I don't think I'm the one that needs to be worried about having a grasp on reality, junior.


by mihan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 09:32:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

There are points to made for Obama's campaign. But for you think that this kid is trying extort the campaign of a candidate he admired is ridiculous.


by crazymoloch on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:10:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

He changed the password, locked Obama out from his own myspace page, and demanded $40,000. For you to think that is anything other than extortion is ridiculous.


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:57:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It bodes well for Obama..... (none / 0)

"I'm sure one of said slimeball 'consultants' decided to muscle this kid"

Why are you SURE?  None of us know anything.  99% of what is in this thread is speculation or spin. Pretending you are sure of things you don't know is, at best, sloppy thinking.


by upper left on Fri May 04, 2007 at 09:16:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This has got to be the dumbest 'controversy' (3.00 / 1)

in the history of the liberal blogosphere. I've been too busy to read the blogs in the past few days, but I'm just shocked at how transparent are the people who simply wish to tear down Obama whenever they think they have the chance.

What in the world is wrong with a campaign wanting control over an official campaign site? Why the hell should they pay off someone who started and ran a profile in the candidate's name? Should that have even been allowed anyway?

I hope this 'issue' dies a quick and deserved death.


by mihan on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:15:51 PM EST

Re: This has got to be the dumbest 'controversy' (none / 0)

This seems pretty normal for MySpace/Livejournal/etc drama


Things You Don't Talk About in Polite Company: Religion, Politics, the Occasional Intersection of Both
by Anthony de Jesus on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has got to be the dumbest 'controversy' (none / 0)

MYDD doubled--doubled--its page views over the past two days.  It looks like it is profitable to fan the flames of an obama-based controversy.  It explains a lot.

I am looking for a friendlier place to hang out.


by aiko on Thu May 03, 2007 at 10:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:Obama MySpace: Why the blogosphere got it wrong (3.00 / 1)

Less he said/she said, more he heard/she heard.

There was growing confusion about whether the page was official or not (ever since MySpace started their presidential campaign 'impact' thing http://impact.myspace.com/ with links to candidate profiles). The disclaimer wasn't enough, based on people's assumptions and reactions.

Clearly the campaign wanted the 'barackobama' profile name to stop this confusion. Clearly Joe Anthony thought they wanted the site itself (the content he had added to the template page AND all its friends). Is it any wonder they couldn't come to an agreement? That also explains the huge gap in perceived value, the mistrust, the not being on the same page (yes, that would be a pun).

I'd further guess that a good percentage of the people who signed up to be friends thought they were signing up to the official campaign, and therefore didn't need to sign up again at barackobama.com - not good for anyone.

Conclusion? MySpace shouldn't allow anyone to set up a profile under someone else's name. What does 'profile' mean, if it's not under the control of that person? Every non-profit and for-profit group has profiles at their 'who we are' page - do you think they'd let someone else control that? I think MySpace effectively acknowledged their mistake by offering to transfer the site (meaning contents and friends) to a 'nonofficial' profile name. I hope they review similar current pages to avoid similar problems in the future.

All the claims I've read about supposed top-down control-freakery, micromanagement and general heavy-handedness by the campaign is silly, imo. They haven't tried to control any fan or supporter site out there, as long as it's clear to everyone that those sites are truly unofficial sites. This one was different, so they treated it differently.


by TomJx on Thu May 03, 2007 at 07:35:48 PM EST

Not Extortion (none / 0)

According to Wikipedia, Extortion is:

Extortion is a criminal offense, which occurs when a person either obtains money, property or services from another through coercion or intimidation or threatens one with physical harm unless they are paid money or property. Refraining from doing harm is sometimes euphemistically called protection. Extortion is commonly practiced by organized crime groups. The actual obtainment of money or property is not required to commit the offense. Making a threat of violence or a lawsuit which refers to a requirement of a payment of money or property to halt future violence or lawsuit is sufficient to commit the offense. The simple four words "pay up or else" are sufficient to constitute the crime of extortion. An extortionate threat made to another in jest is still extortion.

Joe Anthony was not making any threats.  So how is this extortion?


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Fri May 04, 2007 at 12:27:12 AM EST

Not hijack (none / 0)

I also see commenters referring to Anthony's "hijacking" of the MySpace page. Hijack:

to take over (something) and use it for a different purpose : the organization had been hijacked by extremists.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Fri May 04, 2007 at 07:27:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not hijack (none / 0)

Barack Obama's myspace page was hijacked by Joe Anthony. He created it without authorization and he didn't do so in Joe Anthony's name, he created it as if it was Barack Obama's page. Then when Obama came in to take it back Anthony changed the password and locked Obama out. He hijacked Obama's page.


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:16:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not hijack (none / 0)

You're omitting a great deal of what happened.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Fri May 04, 2007 at 02:50:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not Extortion (none / 0)

He threatened to shut them out of their myspace page.


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:13:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes extortion. (none / 0)


by Mystylplx on Fri May 04, 2007 at 01:13:35 PM EST


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