If Its Sunday Or Third-Way, It's White Dudes

In 2004, according to exit polls, Bush won men 55-44, and Kerry won women 51-48. In 2006, according to the national House exit poll, Democrats won a narrow majority of the vote among men 50-47, and also won women 55-43. Democrats thus improved their margin among men by 14 points, and their overall vote among men by six points. Among women, Democrats improved their margin by nine points, and their overall vote by four points. Not bad in either case. The gains were slightly larger among men, but Democrats did have more ground to make up among men than among women.

Given what seems to be a fairly even Democratic gain among men and women, I find this passage a little difficult to believe:
Of the 4.7 million new Democratic voters in 2006, nearly 90 percent were men
Huh? How could Democrats improve their vote total among women, who represent slightly more than half of the electorate, by 4% and still have nearly 90% of their new voters come from men, who are the other, slightly smaller, half of the electorate? In order for that to be the case, wouldn't Democrats have needed to improve their margin among men by around 30-40 points? Here is one possible answer:
Third Way, a centrist Democratic group, has produced a study of the 2006 electorate that goes a long way to explaining where Democrats made gains last November and how (and whether) they can make those trends durable through 2008 and beyond.
Ah... the report was produced by Third Way. Third Way has long argued that Democrats need to appeal more to white, male, rural and upper-middle class voters. Is it any wonder that they produced a report showing that when Democrats won, they did just that? As Chris Cilizza writes:
Read any survey sponsored by an interest group with something of a jaundiced eye. Third Way is a centrist Democratic group that advocates policies aimed at growing the party beyond its traditional liberal base. As such, it's not terribly surprising that this study suggests potential for luring more votes from voter groups outside the normal Democratic constituency.
Unless Third Way is using exit polls that show Democrats made virtually no gains among women, then I have a very, very hard time believing their results. As for their arguments that nearly five out of six new Democratic voters were white, well, nearly five out of six voters in 2006 were white (79%), so that is hardly a newsflash. As for their claims that 70% of new Democratic voters came from households making more than $100K a year, I also find that hard to believe. My comparison of 2004 and 2006 exit polls immediately after the election did not show high-income voters shifting to Democrats in grossly disporportioante amounts. Rather, the shifts were quite even among all income groups.

One of the main problems with this study is that it did not compare an apples to apples electorate. That is, it would have been much better if it compared the 2002 electorate to the 2006 electorate, since mid-term electorates are different than presidential election electorates. Granted, that wasn't possible, since there were not national exit polls in 2002. Still, I wonder if the problems with this study--apparently fishing for pre-determined results and comparing apples-to-oranges electorates--will be mentioned when this report is inevitably discussed on the Sunday talk shows. Consider a new report released by Media Matters on diversity and the Sunday talk shows:
Not only are the Sunday morning talk shows on the broadcast networks dominated by conservative opinion and commentary, the four programs -- NBC's Meet the Press, ABC's This Week, CBS' Face the Nation, and Fox Broadcasting Co.'s Fox News Sunday -- feature guest lists that are overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male.
As the haven of the punditry elite, the Sunday talk show circuit has always been incredibly favorable to DLC-nexus, third-way types (who tend to be wealthy white males). When Democrats do receive occasional representation on Sunday morning panels, it invariably comes from the most centrist, "New Democratic" types one could possibly imagine. Now, it isn't hard to imagine if this wealthy white male, third-way dominated punditry elite will use this study to argue how the most important voters for Democrats to reach are wealthy white males. The system is so utterly self-reinforcing one wonders how it can be effectively punctured and improved anytime soon. One of the main reasons our national politics caters to the interests of wealthy, white men is that the people with the most sway over our national discourse tend to be wealthy, white men. The lack of inclusiveness in the national punditry is a major problem facing our established media institutions and the dissemination of progressive political views.



Display:


Re: If Its Sunday Or Third-Way, It's White Dudes (none / 0)

That would seem statistically impossible for 90% to be men.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Mon May 14, 2007 at 02:12:06 PM EST

Re: If Its Sunday Or Third-Way, It's White Dudes (none / 0)

Yeah, I know. I'd have been quite happy if Democrats won 70% of male voters this time around, but that just didn't happen.
by Chris Bowers on Mon May 14, 2007 at 02:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Or... (none / 0)

the fact that you are talking about specific age cohorts, while the numbers quoted could include everyone eligible to vote...especially if those new voters came from the 18-30 age range.

Could be apples and oranges...


by Nazgul35 on Mon May 14, 2007 at 02:56:04 PM EST

Re: Or... (none / 0)

Perhaps the apples are newly Democratic Voters, and the oranges are new Voters?




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Mon May 14, 2007 at 03:17:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Number Crunching (none / 0)

Dems went from -11 to +3 among men, and from +3 to +12 among women.  If there are equal numbers of men and women in the electorate, 61% of the Dems' new voters would be men.  But since women outnumber men, the percentage is a little lower.  (Not worth crunching the numbers to find out whether it's really 59% or 60% or what.)

As of 2005 (the most recent year we've got the numbers for), only 1/6 of American households had income >100K.  So let's divide the electorate into sextiles, rather than quintiles, by income.  If 70% of the Dems' gains came from the top sextile, that means that 6% of their gains, more or less, came from each of the lower five sextiles - which means that the Dems's message was about 12 times as effective in reaching voters in the top sixth, economically, as it was in reaching the voters in the lower 5/6.

Excuse me, but that's just plain not possible.  Forget about it.


by RT on Mon May 14, 2007 at 03:16:22 PM EST

Income breakdown of gains (none / 0)

You can't compare 2004 to 2006 unless you correct for the overall smaller turnout in an off-year election.  The smaller turnout is more heavily skewed to higher incomes.

Comparing election results four years apart, I believe that Democratic gains were disproportionately in lower income and rural areas.  I'm sorry to toot my own horn, but I summarize some evidence in my new Dissent article:

Rural and blue-collar voters swung toward Democrats, most notably in the economically distressed belt stretching from upstate New York to Indiana. The party also picked up House seats in Kansas, Iowa, and western North Carolina.

From 2000 to 2004, George W. Bush gained more votes in the affluent coastal belt from southwestern Connecticut to northern Delaware than almost anywhere else. Similar phenomena appear in the 2006 returns, with Republicans holding contested House seats in upscale suburbs that had been leaning Democratic. Districts that bucked the Democratic tide contain the hedge fund havens of Greenwich and Stamford in Connecticut, the home of Microsoft outside Seattle, and some of Chicago’s wealthiest suburbs. In the strongly Democratic state of Maryland, Republican governor Bob Ehrlich improved on his 2002 performance in many affluent suburban precincts of Anne Arundel and Montgomery counties while running 10 percent behind his previous score in heavily blue-collar Baltimore County.


by BRoss on Mon May 14, 2007 at 03:26:01 PM EST

Stop framing white men out of the progressive base (none / 0)

... the report was produced by Third Way. Third Way has long argued that Democrats need to appeal more to white, male, rural and upper-middle class voters. Is it any wonder that they produced a report showing that when Democrats won, they did just that? As Chris Cilizza writes:
Read any survey sponsored by an interest group with something of a jaundiced eye. Third Way is a centrist Democratic group that advocates policies aimed at growing the party beyond its traditional liberal base. As such, it's not terribly surprising that this study suggests potential for luring more votes from voter groups outside the normal Democratic constituency.

DIdn't Howard Dean say something about appealing to these guys without compromising our progressive principles? We know the rightwingers, DLC, Third Way et al will try to frame white men out of the traditonal liberal (progressive) base, but we shouldn't help them.


by johnalive on Mon May 14, 2007 at 03:34:43 PM EST

Do not accept biased frames. (none / 0)

That includes the false bottomed electoral treasure chest promised by Third Wayers with more money than sense.


Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon May 14, 2007 at 04:17:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Stop framing white men out of the progressive (none / 0)

These kind of posts (regardless of truth or relevance) bother me for just this reason. You know what, I am a white male from an upper middle class background. I am also a progressive and a strong supporter of democratic ideals.

I am kind of tired of the implicit suggestion that people from my background don't belong here.

Maybe I am overreacting...and I do understand the reasons why DLC types are not what progressive wants  and how Third Way plays into that. But I do not feel like White, Upper-middle class, or male in any way equals DLC, Third Way or anti-progressive.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Mon May 14, 2007 at 05:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Indeed it doesn't. (none / 0)

So don't let Third Way frame you that way.


Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon May 14, 2007 at 05:38:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, please. (none / 0)

Because middle aged white men have been such an underrepresented voice in the Democratic Party.

Quite aside from any statistical fragility,  that is utterly ludicrous.


Before you win, you have to fight. Come fight along with us at TexasKaos.
by boadicea on Mon May 14, 2007 at 04:16:06 PM EST

Re: If Its Sunday Or Third-Way, It's White Dudes (none / 0)

Wasn't it you, less than a week ago, who made the argument to go after the 'unvoting' women?  Someone did.

If we increase our turnout among single women, the elderly, the hispanic, and really INCREASE TURNOUT, say get 20 million of the women who didn't vote in 2004 to vote democrat (yes I'm being idealistic) across the board, across the country - that would make a hell of a difference.


by jc on Mon May 14, 2007 at 05:43:32 PM EST

even if they're right, we're right (none / 0)

If they're right about the new voters being men, that means female democratic turnout was good.

One huge difference between us and third way is that they like a message that's good for pursuasion, because they think all the pursuasion happens on TV, because they DC elite would love for that to be true.

We, on the other hand, tend to favor a message that motivates turnout. If you believe their study, and you look at the exit polls, more men were pursuaded and more women were motivated. Everyone wins. The difference is that motivation helps to build a movement, pursuasion is just how you control the masses.


Progress is Personal | PCCC
by msnook on Mon May 14, 2007 at 05:44:00 PM EST

Re: If Its Sunday Or Third-Way, It's White Dudes (none / 0)

As one of the co-authors of the Third Way study, I wanted to respond to the comments by Chris and others that it doesn't seem possible that 9 of 10 new Democratic voters in 2006 were men.

It's true that Democratic margins increased within nearly every demographic group - women, men, African-Americans, unmarried women, Evangelicals, etc. But the turnout among these voters changed quite a bit between 2004 and 2006. So, for example, D's not only did better by 12.2-points among men (from an 8.8-point loss to a 3.4-point victory), male turnout also increased from 46.3% to 48.3% of the electorate. And this combination of better margins and better turnout propel each other (think about really tagging a baseball with a stiff breeze straight out to centerfield - or leftfield for that matter).

And that also means that turnout among women fell from 53.7% to 51.7% (hitting the ball into the wind). And in an election of 78 million votes, differences of that size really makes a difference.

A better example is African-Americans, where the difference in turnout is really striking. In 2004, 11.8% of the electorate was A-A, in 2006 it was 9.9%. That's a decline of A-A turnout of 16%! So even though we did well among the 9.9% that turned out to vote, we could have done even better if A-A turnout was higher.

Is an off-year election going to be different than a presidential election in terms of turnout? Yes, and we mention that in our report.

But Democrats still have to run and win in off-years.

Anyway, check out the report at www.third-way.com. You may like it; you may think it's interesting; you may not.  


by JMKessler on Mon May 14, 2007 at 06:30:23 PM EST

Thanks for coming by (3.00 / 0)

I'm going to wait until I get to read the whole thing and the conclusions and present a longer analysis then, but it's pretty clear that this is some seriously tortured data. You're trying to normalize two orthogonal datasets. You can't just do that. This isn't like taking two baseball players and normalizing their number of games. It's like taking two players from two different leagues and trying to compare them.

There was a strong whiff of tortured data in the last one, too, where the middle class squeeze magically disappeared.

I think there's a lot of potential in 3rd Way's overall approach, because fundamentally there are plenty of bottom line rationales for progressive change. But in the meantime I agree with Chris about the most damaging aspect of this: some doofus will invariably wave this around on Sunday, and it will be on the way to becoming yet another part of the conventional wisdom that needs to be dislodged.


by Dan Ancona on Mon May 14, 2007 at 11:12:53 PM EST

Re: If Its Sunday Or Third-Way, It's White Dudes (3.00 / 0)

I registered Republican when I was 18, but within a year or two I'd informed myself enough about politics to realize I didn't support most of their stances.  From the first election I participated in I always voted Democratic.  For years I meant to do something about my party affiliation, but upon refliection I decided that with the electoral system for presidential elections, since my state (OK) always voted for the Republican I figured I had more of an influence if I could vote in the primary; whereas my vote in the actual election gets chucked every time due to my neighbors' preferences.

I changed in '03 I think so I could vote for Dean in the primary.  Even in the primaries though I've never felt like my vote mattered, OK is so far down the line that usually it's already decided by then--I hadn't realized that until '04, or again I might have changed parties earlier.  But I made the party change anyway, if for no other reason than to end any and all association with the GOP.

Anyway, that year the Dems got a new party member but didn't gain any votes from it, b/c I'd already been voting Dem.  It may be a very small figure, perhaps less than a percentage point, but there have to be a lot of people changing party registration because of what the Republicans have become in the last 6 years, and many of them were probably voting for Dems as often as not (sidebar:  like many if not most Oklahomans, my family have been registered Dems for decades but always vote for reepubs.  The opposite must happen to some degree in the national view)...so maybe there's a tiny bit of inflation to these figures from Rinos changing parties.

Again, it probably doesn't add up to much difference, but I thought I'd throw that possibility out there.


The Wages of Sin is about $5.15 an Hour.
by hz on Tue May 15, 2007 at 12:42:33 AM EST


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