Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore?

Over the past few months, among close watchers of 2008 polls, it has become conventional wisdom that Hillary Clinton performs better in national primary preference polls without Gore included the question than with Gore included in the question. One of the reasons this has become conventional wisdom is simply that it is true. In the polls taken over the past three months that include samples both of the entire Democratic field with Gore and of the entire Democratic field without Gore, nine out of ten times Hillary Clinton has a larger lead in the samples without Gore. Note that I am not including three-candidate polls in this survey, because such polls also remove several other candidates besides Gore, and I want to measure only how Gore supporters break.

The primary reason for this is that both Clinton supporters and Gore supporters are, in my estimation, disproportionately drawn from low-information voters who are less engaged with the campaign. Now, this is not to say that there are not hard-core Clinton and Gore supporters, as they most certainly are a decent number of both. It just means that there are fewer hard-core Gore and Clinton supporters as a percentage of their overall supporters in national primary polls. This is especially true for Gore, who only received 4% support among Democrats in the Hotline-Diageo open ended poll taken three weeks ago (Clinton, Edwards and Obama combined for 57%), and 1% support among the open-ended, highly engaged Democratic preference poll taken by Pew two months ago (Clinton, Edwards and Obama combined for 30%). When people have to be prompted to vote for you in a poll, you know your supporters are both soft and of the low-information variety.

However, despite our conventional poll-watching wisdom, something interesting is happening among Gore supporters. While they still favor Clinton, her advantage among Gore supporters in national primary polls is not nearly as large as it once was. The first seven polls of the sort described in the first paragraph show 500 Gore supporters breaking 45% for Clinton, 13% each for Obama and Edwards, and the rest either supporting someone else or being unsure. By way of contrast, the three most recent polls, which include about 235 Gore supporters, show Clinton receiving 34%, Obama pulling in 21%, Edwards pulling in 19%, and the rest being either supporting another candidate or being unsure. Certainly, the margin of error could be playing a role in producing these results, and it could also simply be a temporary bump, but then again it could also be a statistically significant shift away from Clinton among low-information Gore supporters. Across the latest national polls from Gallup, ABC-WaPo, and CNN, Clinton's once commanding advantage among Gore supporters has become fairly negligible. Now, her second place lead among Gore supporters increases her lead by an average of only 2%.

Assuming for the moment that this shift is real, what are the implications for the Democratic nomination campaign? First, it shows that Clinton's lead among low-information is shrinking, which means that the inflated Clinton poll theory might be slowly becoming irrelevant. If Clinton no longer does substantially better among low-information voters than she does among high-information voters, then the window to test the theory may already have disappeared. It would also mean that Clinton's lead will keep becoming smaller, but also become more solid as time moves forward.

Second, it probably does not bode well for Gore's entry into the campaign. Extremely thin news reports in conservative English newspapers notwithstanding, I have always thought his entry was highly unlikely. If his supporters no longer disproportionately come at Clintons' expense, then even if he entered Gore probably would not start the campaign in the lead (and possibly not even in second place). If he doesn't start the race in front, it is hard to imagine that he would want to enter at all, given that he would already face a significant monetary and organizational disadvantage, on top of a polling disadvantage, to multiple candidates. What would be the point of a late entry if his odds of winning the nomination are low, especially given that a defeat in the 2008 primaries would end any future chance of winning the nomination? Even if you believe the "Gore would enter to stop Clinton from winning" rumors, considering the shift of his supporters away from Clinton, his entry would not even accomplish much on that front. Further, taking into account the activist, media, monetary and other resource drain Gore's entry would create for all the other candidates, a late Gore entry might even increase Clinton's chances of winning the nomination, as the resulting structural problems for other top tier candidates like Edwards and Obama would far outweigh their meager two point net gain on Clinton in national polls.

As a final note, the article in the Daily Torygraph about a few insiders being on board with a Draft Gore movement is truly wretched. As a person with a functioning brain, I actually found these two paragraphs offensive (emphasis mine):
One of his former campaign team said: "I was asked whether I would be available towards the end of the year if I am needed. They know he has not ruled out running and if he decides to jump in, he will have to move very fast."

"He hasn't asked them to do this, but nor has he told them not to."
Um, so Gore is on board with everything his staffers do secretly in their free time, unless he explicitly tells them otherwise? And why is it even remotely news that a few insiders are on board with the Draft Gore campaign? Several thousand grassroots progressive are also on board with it, so it would actually be news if no insiders whatsoever were on board with it. It reminds me of when I was in England, and the Torygraph claimed that former Labour leader Paul Michael Foot was a KGB informant.

To be perfectly frank, I think the continued speculation on a possible Gore run is based on some of the most utterly flimsy rumors and word play I have seen fuel almost any American political story in recent years (and that is saying a lot). It strikes me as basically trying to accomplish the same structural drain (money, activists, media) on Edwards, Obama and all other non-Clinton candidates that an actual Gore entry would accomplish. Either that, or it is simply the media trying to inject a wrinkle into a story that will help them get ratings, even though they know it isn't actually news. The difference in the quality of journalism surrounding speculation on potential celebrity divorces and speculation of a possible Gore run is minimal, at best.

Now, with that said, if Gore did run, I would give him a long look. But he ain't gonna run.

Update: Gore camp completely denies all elements of the Torygraph's story.



Display:


Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Wither Gore? (none / 0)

I've been scenario spinning in my mind about who is most hurt in Iowa by Gore running. I think Clinton would suffer and might have a harder time being viable in some precincts if she loses more of those low-information voters.

Obama might be hurt if he is no longer the only top-tier candidate who was against the war from the beginning.

Richardson might be hurt if he is no longer the only guy with a heavyweight resume.

Edwards might be hurt since Gore is also a white southern guy, but more experienced. On the other hand, if Edwards can hang on to most of the people who caucused for him in 2004, maybe a Gore entry would be good for him. Edwards could win Iowa in a five-candidate field with 35-40 percent of the delegates, and he got 32 percent in 2004.

I've only identified a couple of people in my precinct who would lean toward Gore if he jumped in, but I haven't started working my precinct hard yet, and there are plenty of people I haven't contacted at all.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 08:42:54 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Wither Gore? (none / 0)

I think the field is set. I just don't see any possibility of Gore entering the race. The only scenario where there might be even an extremely remote possibility would be if the campaigns of the top 3 Clinton, Edwards, and Obama all imploded and there was no obvious nominee. Even in that doomsday type of scenario many others would jump in as well.

Gore has his place in history. He got more votes than Bush but the Supreme Court changed the course of history.


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 08:47:24 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? (3.00 / 0)

Well said--though I think there are a few reasons for this continued speculation aside from eternally optimistic Gore pushers and the media urge to introduce new plot points.

I'm not sure what the psychological term is (but I'm sure there is one) that covers the human urge to return to an idyllic time. To identify the moment at which everything went to hell, and return, not actually but psychologically, or in this case politically, to a time before that. For the right-wingers, this time is possibly the 60s, which (according to the narrative) led us astray into multiculturalism (read: civil rights movement), feminism (read: feminism), the Stab in the Back by the left during Vietnam, etc.

But today, for many Americans--and not just on the left of the left--the 2000 election is that watershed moment. So Gore, while we say he represents a politician unleashed after years in the wilderness, a competent and proven leader with perfect experience, a crusader to save the planet, etc., he really represents The Time Before Bush. And that's damn powerfull.

But maybe that's just me.

Also: " ... given that he would already face a significant monetary and organizational disadvantage, on top of a polling disadvantage, to multiple candidates."

Isn't this equally--and moreso, because of the status differential--true of Fred Thomas?


by BingoL on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 08:50:16 PM EST

no--Fred Thompson situation is different (none / 0)

The GOP base is utterly demoralized by the frontrunners "Rudy McRomney." No clear alternative seems to be emerging.

While some of the Democratic base is unhappy with the field, the vast majority feel like we have a strong field and could seriously consider at least a couple of the major candidates. I don't think there are nearly as many people who are hoping for someone to ride in on a white horse. I've identified a couple of Iowa caucus-goers who are waiting for Gore, but I've talked to many, many active Democrats who are happy with at least one candidate in our field.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no--Fred Thompson situation is different (none / 0)

I take your point, but I'm still not sure if that's true, or just a media story we keep hearing: that Fred Thompson can sweep into the race like a savior. Vote Fred, he's photogenic! Not just a politician, he also plays one on TV!

I mean, the others have raised tens of millions, hired staff, collected endorsements, have operations in place, etc. Thompson's Q1 numbers were really low, too.

But maybe I'm wrong. Certainly I think that Fred Thompson is to Al Gore what the Republican primary candidates are to the Democratic primary candidates. We've got a great field. My single complaint about our field is that I can't take traits from each one of them and create my own Supercandidate. That'd be cool.


by BingoL on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think the GOP base really is demoralized (none / 0)

I was just talking to a classic middle-aged Republican a week or so ago. He is reluctantly for McCain but thinks McCain is not conservative enough. He dismissed the Huckabee/Tancredo/Hunter crowd as not having enough support.

A heavyweight with stronger conservative credentials would have a decent chance of getting the GOP nomination.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:48:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think the GOP base really is demoralized (none / 0)

How long until they start clamoring for Jeb?  Hee Hee Hee... We can only hope.


by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 08:57:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Wither Gore? (none / 0)

Regarding the source of the latest round of Gore speculation: the current editorial judgment at Salon strikes again!
As Chris observes, not worthy coverage at all.
by johnalive on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:04:04 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Not according to national polls.  The last one I checked last week (sorry no link until later), indicated that over 60 percent of Dems do not
want Gore to run again.

by samueldem on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:18:43 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Who wouldn't want Al Gore to run?  He is the President who was never sworn in.  Americans are concerned about the Environment and no one articulates this issue like Gore.  What is so wrong with having another strong presidential candidate? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?


by changehorses08 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 02:53:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I think you have your numbers mixed up...the poll I saw had a majority of Democrats wanting Gore to run again and a slight majority of all polled not wanting him to run.


Netroots for Gore
by NYPopulist on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 04:03:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Yup, i read the same thing somewhere that a lot of people just don't want gore to run because he makes a lot of people remember the bad times,when everybody couldn't believe that the supreme court had just handed the presidency to Bush, and Gore also gave up too quickly.

I can only talk for me, and i just  can't support Gore if he runs,He's old news, in my opinion.He's run and had his time and he should allow another fresh face to get a chance.

The fact that he lost to Bush, doesn't bold well for him and i know a lot of folks that would never vote for him just for this fact alone.


by JaeHood on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 05:50:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

How did Gore give up too quickly?  He fought in court for a month and finally the SCOTUS fucked him royally.  He didn't have much else he could do from there... he could have petitioned the certification, but that would have been delaying the inevitable SINCE the GOP still had the majority in both Houses.  Anyone saying he gave up too quickly really doesn't know what they are talking about.


by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 09:02:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Wither Gore? (none / 0)

In poll after poll Democrats voice high satisfaction with their already-available choices.  It is usually around 60%.  Contrast that to Republicans, who state satisfaction to the tune of under 40%.   If Gore were to suddenly declare that he was running, it would basically say to all of us "These candidates we currently have running are not good enough.  We need someone else to 'save the day.'"   That is obviously not reflected in any opinions expressed by Democrats, nor is Gore polling indicative of a huge groundswell of support.   Recall that four years ago Hillary Clinton, when mentioned as a possible candidate, blew away any of the other candidates (Kerry, Lieberman, Gephardt, Dean) almost four to one. Nothing of that sort is showing with Gore's support, he is not "wildly popular" in absentia.  

The last Gallup poll shows that only a narrow majority of Democrats (54%) want to see a Gore addition to the cache of candidates.  

http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/news _theswamp/2007/04/dont_run_al_don.html

Sometimes folks want to believe that that little twinkle in the corner of someone's eye is indicative of something that is actually not there.  

BTW, Chris, Clinton's support seems quite strong already.  I believe the evidence shows (when taking a cross section of all polls that delve into more detailed questions into account) that both Clinton's and Edwards' support is somewhat stronger, more solid, than Obama's, which is a tad softer.  


by georgep on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:21:25 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Do you have any evidence using polling or something to back up this claim--chris has some pretty compelling evidence to support his claim


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:24:03 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Correlation does not prove causation. I think these polls are pretty meaningless at this time  because Gore is not in the race/not out of the race. Low impact voters would be clueless and could possibly think he isn't running.

The conservation movement is gaining momentum. If Gore does run, I think he would create some momentum  because of his stance on global warming.

Just speculation.ymmv


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 02:44:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

That, to me sounds more like an argument that Gore is more likely to draw from Obama, rather than Hillary.  Or the beginning of one.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 03:33:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

heh

How did you know my first and second choice?


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Tue Apr 24, 2007 at 02:09:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (3.00 / 2)

It's interesting that the Clinton camp keeps talking up a Gore candidacy. Not only did Bill mentioned it, but the Telegraph article also quotes Carville speculating about Gore's entry, and I wouldn't be surprised if the anonymous sources in the article don't have Gore's interests in mind.

How would this benefit Hillary? By eliminating one of Gore's current advantages -- that's he's not in the spotlight. If Gore is planning on a run, it would be to his benefit to keep Hillary front and center for now. Anything the Clinton campaign can do to move attention away from her right now can only help, even if a Gore candidacy is complete fiction. And if Gore is running, it's definitely to Hillary's advantage to push him in as soon as possible.


by ryeland on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:30:46 PM EST

My thoughts (3.00 / 3)

Most of the Gore supporters I know, myself included, come from the undecided or Edwards camp.  Just as an FYI.  Then again, I don't know any Hillary supporters.  Like, God, I'm told they exist but have never experienced evidence fo this myself...  So I can't pretend to understand the dynamics here.

I rather agree with you about the ideal circumstances under which he could enter the race look less likely each day.  Between him apparently not wanting to run, not having any kind of organization or funds in place, not having any magical opportunity in which the progressives fall by the wayside and he runs against Hillary, and erm, the fact that he is ISN'T running, well, I just don't see it happening.  And it is slightly unsettling to ponder the consequences of him entering the race.  There may be a pouf! exodus from other campaigns to ensure him a landslide, but there may be another cruel and painful loss too.  I don't see that the former is a given.  

Ok, ALL that said, so why is everyone still talking about him running and many people like me still holding out to see if he gets in it before we choose a candidate????  The factors above would seem to make it counterintuitive, right?  

Here's my theory.  This field we keep calling "an embarrassment of riches" apparently isn't.  Or else why would anyone be paying attention to Gore?

Like Occam's razor, I think the simplest explanation is the correct one.  There is no MSM or Gore-planted story or any conspiracy or anything like that.  It's just plain, painfully, obvious to a whole lotta people that running or not, he's the best man for the job.  


by poemless on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:39:36 PM EST

Re: My thoughts (3.00 / 2)

Maybe it is because, as Chris Bowers put it, "the continued speculation on a possible Gore run is based on some of the most utterly flimsy rumors and word play I have seen fuel almost any American political story in recent years (and that is saying a lot)."

In other words, people who, despite Gore's own words, run around blogs and start diaries that he may run, is most likely going to run (wink, wink, nudge) and please visit this site to leave a contribution to the "Draft Al Gore" movement.

And, btw., since you are posting here, your claim that you don't know any Clinton supporters (but heard that they exist) is major baloney.  In my personal life I don't know any Edwards supporters (aside from my mother-in-law, but she is apparently in the process of changing her mind right now,) but I won't be presumptious enough to claim that they simply don't exist, because this site shows otherwise.  


by georgep on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 09:47:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clarifications (3.00 / 2)

1.  Mea Culpa.  I do not know any Hillary supporters in "real life" meaning, outside of the blogosphere.  Or if I do, they have not admitted as much.

2.  I think you missed my whole point.  It is not that Gore has supporters or people who fanticize about his entering the race because of the wishful blog diaries, flimsy rumours, Draft Gore movement, etc.  But the exact opposite, that there are wishful blog diaries, flimsy rumours, Draft Gore movements because a significant (though by no evidence a majority) number of people are not willing to settle on another candidate when they feel there is a better person for the job.  

Gore could settle this right now this instant be coming out and saying unequivocally, "I will not run for President in 2008.  I appreciate your support but you are going to have to look to one of people who are actually running for a candidate."  He has not.  Until he does, you can't fault those who feel he is the best person for the job for not looking elsewhere.


by poemless on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well Said (2.66 / 3)

I would like nothing better than to be comfortable with the current choices and I will ultimately vote for whoever has the best chance of stopping Hillary. But when Obama hires people like Robert Gibbs to be his campaign spokesman (to deliver the message that Barack wants to take the cynicism out of politics!) and offers an energy "plan" to reduce carbon emissions from cars by a whopping 10% by 2020 and Edwards charges $400 haircuts to his campaign (and he's still the guy who in 2003 pretended to be suddenly "shocked shocked" about Dean's remark about guys in pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals when Dean had been using that line for nine months), I'll gladly wait for a true statesman -- someone who was RIGHT about global warming, the Iraq War, the possibilities of the internet, etc. etc. etc. while the others were busy holding their fingers to the wind or listening to insiders (like Rahm Emanuel) telling them not to get too far out front on the issues.


"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clarifications (none / 0)

With all due respect, we know that Democrats are very satisfied with the choices they already have to date.  That is unlike other years when Democrats typically voiced disappointment with the field running (i.e. in 2004, 1992, etc.)   The idea that people are unhappy, which is why there is this "Gore talk" is not supported by polling evidence.  Quite the opposite.  


by georgep on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

"I rather agree with you about the ideal circumstances under which he could enter the race look less likely each day.  Between him apparently not wanting to run, not having any kind of organization or funds in place, not having any magical opportunity in which the progressives fall by the wayside and he runs against Hillary, and erm, the fact that he is ISN'T running, well, I just don't see it happening."

* who says he doesn't want to run? not him. Tipper talked it up on Good Morning America

* no organization in place? What about the Alliance for Climate Protection? led by Roy Neel, Gore's long-time advisor. Is this not essentially a non-campaign campaign organization?

* no funds in place? He's been making money hand over fist for the last 8 years. He can now partially self-finance his run, plus he will get many millions his first week after announcing. meanwhile, he can do his thing without asking for campaign dollars, or spending them

* no magical opportunity? What if Barack Obama dropped out and endorsed him? He could immediately become the frontrunner. And Barack has made positive statements about a Gore run.

the stars are lined up...


by d bad on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:34:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama droping out to endorse gore (none / 0)

Yeah, good luck with that...Obama has already stated he's not running for VP or second to none.Obama will not take a back seat to Hillary or Gore.The man is running for president,period.If Gore gets in, he'll have to fight and compete to get the nomination just like everybody else.The theory that Obama would drop out and let Gore take care of Hillary is ridiculous.


by JaeHood on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 06:06:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama droping out to endorse gore (none / 0)

That's true... He won't quit a race for someone else... that's in his history.  I think he would accept a VP nod, but he will fight hard for the nomination.


by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 09:05:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

* no magical opportunity? What if Barack Obama dropped out and endorsed him? He could immediately become the frontrunner. And Barack has made positive statements about a Gore run.

To follow up on that idea, what if all the other candidates dropped out and endorsed Gore? Then he'd win for sure! The stars are lined up for Gore to win 100% of the primary vote...


The truth about McCain
by nstrauss on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 11:37:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

Here's my theory.  This field we keep calling "an embarrassment of riches" apparently isn't.  Or else why would anyone be paying attention to Gore?

Or perhaps we just have a case of the grass is always greener...


by johnalive on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:24:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My thoughts (none / 0)

"Here's my theory. This field we keep calling "an embarrassment of riches" apparently isn't. Or else why would anyone be paying attention to Gore?

Like Occam's razor, I think the simplest explanation is the correct one. There is no MSM or Gore-planted story or any conspiracy or anything like that. It's just plain, painfully, obvious to a whole lotta people that running or not, he's the best man for the job.
That actually seems pretty reasonable. Just because most Democrats are satisfied with the field doesn't mean I should assume all Democrats feel that way. And among the people whoa re not satisfied, there are probably some people who really, really love Al Gore.

But still, I remain convinced that those people are a small percentage of activists.
by Chris Bowers on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:37:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (3.00 / 1)

You're right, he's not running.

You're wrong, if he did run he would instantly be the front runner.

He has the field dwarfed with experience, conscientousness, proven electability, and sheer battle hardened toughness. What the hell could republicans throw at him at this point.

Visualize the last scene in 8-mile, the Eminem movie. After choking once and losing, he comes back and is facing a more well supported and ruthless opponent. He throws out every single criticism that's been leveled against him and then basically says, eh, is that all you've got? That's basically where Gore is now. Call it inoculation.

Perhaps my analysis is not sophisticated, but it has the benefit of being dead on accurate. The fact is if you want adult supervision and a quasi guarantee that things will improve, Gore is the only sure bet.

I don't like him all that much. He would be my clear first choice, by a mile. I know what a Gore presidency would be like, and I know the republicans are nearly out of ammo with him. I have a feeling I'm not the only one.


by Flailey on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:51:45 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

You're wrong, if he did run he would instantly be the front runner.  He has the field dwarfed with experience, conscientousness, proven electability, and sheer battle hardened toughness.

That's an argument as to why you believe he deserves to be the front-runner; the problem is, he won't be.  Hillary's base isn't going to be hurt by his entry -- it's more female, older, more establishment-y than what Gore's appeal is.

Al Gore hasn't been elected to anything as the lead candidate since 1990.


by Adam B on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:23:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I think the desire to put the adults in charge is impossible to overstate.

I also think Hillary's support is thin except among a small group of hardcore supporters - mostly professional boomer aged women.

It's an opinion, of course. I'm not supporting it with polling data. But that's not exactly the point.

As for your argument that "Al Gore hasn't been elected to anything as the lead candidate since 1990" you've drifted off into the wood there, considering he was Vice President for 8 years after and won the popular vote in 2000.

Can you name a candidate in the field who has won millions of votes for president cast by people in Ohio? Missouri? Oregon?  

Gore has. The idea that Clinton or Obama winning a bit over half of the voters of NY or IL gives them more electoral experience in a national race is ludicrous.


by Flailey on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:05:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Again: you're confusing reasons which convince you from reasons which will convince other people.  Sen. Clinton, Sen. Edwards and Sen. Obama are grownups too.

Bill Clinton never won outside of Arkansas . . . until he won outside of Arkansas.


by Adam B on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:18:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

"Al Gore hasn't been elected to anything as the lead candidate since 1990."

"Bill Clinton never won outside of Arkansas . . . until he won outside of Arkansas."

Well at least you are consistent. Whichever silly maxim will support your point of view becomes science.

My belief is that Gore's support among Democrats is much deeper than any other candidates. I believe the reason is that he's been tested. He's a known commodity. In a time of uncertainty and backsliding that's a massive asset.

Ask Nixon in 1968.


by Flailey on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 10:10:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Again, all you're doing is making a prediction, which is different from drawing from the current data, which suggests much ambivalence about Gore within the party.


by Adam B on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 02:41:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I am for anything that would bring back the Clinto/Gore years.  Perhaps Gore/Clinton.


by changehorses08 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 03:06:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Don't start looking at the Clinton/Gore years like wingnuts look at the 50's.... some magical perfectly sanitized time period.  While they were better than this decade and there was a lot of good... there was also a lot of bad as well.  

Instead of looking back, lets look forward to a new era.


by yitbos96bb on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 09:10:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

The Presidential Campaign began way too early. If Gore decides after the Summer to go for it there is still plenty of time--because with his name recognition he can raise tons of money.  The Democrats are serious about winning in 08 and we can never have too many great voices out there. Just one bit of advice for Al -- don't pick Lieberman as your running mate.  He still owes us an apology for that one.


by changehorses08 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 03:04:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Hate to be picky, but...

The former Labour leader wasn't Paul Foot, but Michael Foot - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Foo t


by marthews on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 10:51:58 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

My blushes. I was thinking of his son, who I actually worked with a bit in England.

And if you want to do some digging, that should indicate just how far on the left I was while I was a younger man.
by Chris Bowers on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:39:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I though Paul Foot was his nephew?

Also, whilst it's before my time, according to Wikipedia it was the Times that accused Michael Foot of being a Soviet agent. Not that it makes much difference, the Torygraph has only very slightly more integrity than the Murdoch press.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 06:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Question? (none / 0)

Can someone explain the "Gore would enter to stop Clinton from winning" rumors Chris mentions?  What underpins these rumors?

-

It's very clear that Al Gore loves his current life and his current role in America's life.  I can see him entering the race in Denver at a deadlocked convention -- does anyone really think that will happen?  I don't.  But it's possible.


by TeddySanFran on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:07:44 PM EST

Re: Question? (3.00 / 1)

We have about a 10 year window to change course on Global Warming.  Only Gore can articulate the urgency.  It is a wide open election so anything can happen.  With Hillary at 41%, Obama 20% and Edwards 14%--there is plenty of room for the candidate with a mandate.


by changehorses08 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 03:10:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gore is not running (none / 0)

the rumors are being actively denied by people to close to Gore as well as Gore's spokesman:

http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/ electioncentral/2007/apr/22/gore_camp_de nies_report_of_secret_campaign


by okamichan13 on Sun Apr 22, 2007 at 11:29:29 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (3.00 / 1)

And you are basing this on... what exactly? your intuitive understanding of public opinion among the Democratic primary electorate? I am only asking because the entire reason I wrote this post was that I noticed movement in polls numbers indicated exactly the opposite of what you suggest.
by Chris Bowers on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:31:59 AM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (3.00 / 1)

I don't think Gore will run, but I'd also caution reading too much into polling data on this.  Voters who are more tuned in know that Al Gore is not a candidate at this time and I'm sure many people who might pick him as a top choice are, instead, strategically picking another candidate who is actually in the race.  I don't think there's any way we can measure what sort of announcement bump he would receive.  Maybe it wouldn't be very much, but it could also be more substantial than the numbers alone would have you believe.

I also don't think it's just optimism that is driving the rumors.  For starters, the Clinton people are heavily pushing the idea that he will run (I'll let others speculate on the why's).  Secondly, it makes a great story.  Never underestimate the media's desire for an engaging narrative.  A remade Al Gore coming back to reclaim what should have been his would make for compelling drama, particularly if he had to take on his old boss to get there.  Lastly, I would point out that Gore hasn't really done anything to hurt his candidacy yet.  More than any other candidate, he can afford to enter late.  He will be at a money disadvantage, but if he picks the right moment, I'm sure he could raise enough to compete in the pre 2/5 states and possibly to be competitive on 2/5.  Waiting until after the books comes out and after he gets more exposure for global warming work just makes a lot of sense, particularly if he can stay above the ticky tack newscycles before declaring.


by LPMandrake on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:48:31 AM EST

Your first point is especially valuable (none / 0)

It bears repeating:

Voters... know that Al Gore is not a candidate at this time... many people who might pick him as a top choice [if he were a declared candidate] are, instead... picking another candidate who is actually in the race.


"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 01:40:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I totally agree with you but I don't understand why Hillary would want Gore to get in.  Perhaps you could explain that.


by changehorses08 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 03:13:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I don't necessarily think that they do want Gore to get in, but the Bill Clinton and James Carville comments struck me as being odd.  There seems to be an effort on the part of the Clinton camp to keep the idea of a Gore candidacy very much alive.  Reminding anti-Hillary activists that President Gore might be on the horizon could keep dollars and volunteers away from Edwards and Obama.  I don't think it's a terribly effective tactic, but it's also not as though they are investing a lot of effort in this, if it is even a tactic.  It could just be that people are assigning too much credit to the Clintons.  Either way, when Bill Clinton says that Al Gore will probably run, that is going to help fuel the rumors and keep the story alive.


by LPMandrake on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 04:49:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

That is part of their strategy- splitting the anti-HRC sentiment (which is large).  She is strong enough to beat a field of anti-HRC candidates but not one strong anti-HRC candidate.  They are only worried about one candidate- Obama.  They never have thought that Edwards can beat her.  Whenever HRC or Bill are asked about Obama, they change the subject and talk about all of the wonderful Democratic candidates.  Propping up a phantom Gore candidacy is just part of keeping the anti-HRC sentiment from coalescing around Obama.  


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 11:53:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Latest Rasmussen Poll:

The two candidates are essentially even among Democrats--Clinton is viewed favorably by 74% in her party while Obama is viewed favorably by 72%.

Outside the net roots there just isn't that much anti-feelings about HRC.

And for that strategy to work Gore should have been drawing support his support from anti-Hillary voters right from the start, instead most Gore voters in the polls alternated between him and Hillary with less Obama or Edwards second choicers. How would Gore devide the anti-hillary vote if untill just a while ago most of his support came from hillary voters?

And as I Hillary enthousiast I'm unafraid of the anti-Hillary vote because I doubt that with this strong field of democrats large numbers are going to vote against a person instead of for a person. Not many people are going to let his/her dislike of one candidate override their prefered choice. especially since the anti-pool is quite small outside the netroots to begin with.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 04:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What makes you a Hillary enthusiast? (none / 0)

Is it her refusal to admit voting for the Iraq war was wrong, her championing of the much-needed anti-flag burning amendment to the Constitution, or something else?


"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 06:41:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What makes you a Hillary enthusiast? (none / 0)

Not particulary nice, but not entirely unwarrented. Everybody should be able to defend their choice.

A small correction, she didn't champion an anti-flag burning amendment. She voted against it. She did however support an anti flag burning law.

Not my position, but I find it a non-issue.

I marched against the war, protested against it. argued a good case against. And her and my opinioned differed greatly.

But, I'm O.K. her saying with that she would now not make that mistake and her stated reasons why she did.

That at the time she thought the resolution was the right thing to do, and that due to her time in the whitehouse she trusted the office of the president too much and thought the president would exhaust the diplomatic options first.

She acknowledged that she made a mistake, and in fact I respect her for saying that she did what she did and that she was willing to face the electoral concequences for it.
It's harder to do that then it would be for her to offer an apology several years later, carefully crafted to resonate with the targeted voters and hope to dodge it.

Still her vote on the resolution does bother me.

It is offset by her strong stance on healthcare, her equal and civil rights history, and diplomatic experience. There is no other candidate who would give as big a boost to the USA international reputation merely by getting elected as HRC.

Although I like the fast majority of the democratic field. No candidate has my preference as much as Hillary. If I would've been able to vote for a presidental candidate she would get mine


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Ernst on Tue Apr 24, 2007 at 08:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A fair answer (none / 0)

although I disagree vehemently. Please think about where Hillary gets her money from: it's NOT the grassroots. It's people with a vested interest in keeping the status quo -- and who will have plenty of influence if she's elected (she's asking her "Hill-raisers" to bundle $1,000,000 -- 10X what Bush expected of his "Rangers").

Hillary did not do so well on the health care issue the first time (closed door meetings chaired by Ira Magaziner!). I would not be inclined to give her another shot at it.

More important, she will triangulate the rest of the Party (e.g., Congressional candidates) into oblivion like her husband did. She is also the ONE major Democratic candidate who could find a way to lose in 2008 IMHO.

Thanks for the correction on the flag-burning thing though. Cyncially sponsoring a law she knows the Supreme Court will overturn isn't much better in my view, however.


"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Tue Apr 24, 2007 at 12:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This just in (none / 0)

http://vermontdailybriefing.com/?p=619

Trickle-Down Fear-Mongering 101
by Philip Baruth
Vice President Dick Cheney, September 8, 2004, on the real dangers of electing a Democratic President:

"It's absolutely essential that eight weeks from today, on Nov. 2, we make the right choice, because if we make the wrong choice then the danger is that we'll get hit again and we'll be hit in a way that will be devastating from the standpoint of the United States."

Former New York Mayor and current Presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani, April 26, 2007, on the real dangers of electing a Democratic President:

"The question is going to be: How long does [the fight against terrorism] take, and how many losses will we have along the way? . . . And I truly believe that if we go back on defense for a period of time, we're going to ultimately have more losses and it's going to go on much longer."

And of course, Hillary and Bill Clinton, as reported in the current edition of Time, on the real dangers of electing a Democratic President other than Hillary:

"Both Clintons have made the case to potential fund raisers that the U.S. will probably suffer a terrorist attack on the scale of 9/11 after the next President is sworn in -- and that Hillary is the only Democratic candidate capable of handling such a crisis because of her Senate Armed Services Committee tenure and her years in the White House."

Everyone clear on that? Probably we'll lose another major landmark, a chunk of the Pentagon, and another 3,000 American lives.

Now that's what VDB calls working across the aisle.

Centrism at its very finest.


"We are building a political movement - not one that wields the power of lobbyists and corporate interests, but the power of millions... who seek change." -Dean
by Jim in Chicago on Thu Apr 26, 2007 at 05:25:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

I was going to reply and say pretty much the exact same thing:

I don't think Gore will run, but I'd also caution reading too much into polling data on this.  Voters who are more tuned in know that Al Gore is not a candidate at this time and I'm sure many people who might pick him as a top choice are, instead, strategically picking another candidate who is actually in the race.  I don't think there's any way we can measure what sort of announcement bump he would receive.  Maybe it wouldn't be very much, but it could also be more substantial than the numbers alone would have you believe.

It's impossible to poll Gore's support without prompting someone because Gore's not a candidate. Are we to assume that Bill Clinton is very unpopular among Democrats because he doesn't do well in unprompted polls? Or can we choose the more logical explanation, that people do not choose him because he's not running?

The fact remains that when Gore is included in the choices, he's in competitive territory, even though he hasn't had a big announcement week, he hasn't gotten a boost with his Q1 fundraising numbers, hasn't been on the Daily Show, Letterman, and Leno, hasn't been on 60 Minutes, and hasn't been on Network News every other night. Gore's done nothing to campaign, yet he still has the same support as John Edwards in the national polls, and more support than Edwards and Obama in big states like CA and NY.

This can signal one of two things: Either Clinton, Obama, Edwards, and Gore are locked in at 35%-25%-15%-15% support nation-wide, and they're fighting for the last 10%, or everybody's support is pretty soft and subject to much jumping around on the part of their supporters. You don't have to go much further than Iowa in 2004 to see how quickly supporters will jump ship and embrace another candidate. Polls a week out showed that Dean was cruising to victory. And now we're still nine months out!

Al Gore could end the Draft Gore campaign with a definitive statement that he's not running, like he did in 2002 about the 2004 elections. Last cycle, he did that nice and early to end speculation and let his supporters go elsewhere. This time, though, he's clearly left the window open with statements like, "I have no intention to run for President right now..."


by Kal on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 08:25:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Good Post

by Glen on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 02:15:43 AM EST

Thanks for calling out that Telegraph article (none / 0)

Another point: the article uses the fact that many of Kerry's staffers aren't currently working for another candidate as proof that they must be sitting out for Gore, when in fact it's probably just because they did such a bad job in 2004 that no one wants to hire them.


ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future
by Nonpartisan on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 09:36:17 AM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (3.00 / 3)

Chris, you've been saying Gore wouldn't run since last year... I doubt he's decided yet.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 10:46:37 AM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (3.00 / 2)

It's been getting harder and harder to read Chris about '08 because of his quixotic desire to purge Gore from the conversation and now he's completely slipped into irrationality.  

"Gore supporters are, in my estimation, disproportionately drawn from low-information voters who are less engaged with the campaign"?  Wow. Impressive.  Both asinine and insulting at once.  Allow me to posit another explanation: a tremendous number of people have been listening to bloviators such as Chris insisting that no way, no how is Gore going to run.  This keeps Gore's numbers artificially low and causes people who would otherwise support him to list other candidates in polls.  When his name isn't offered, with support so diffuse among 4 candidates people move around but the fact is you are polling 3 announced candidates against someone who is not announced and whom people like Chris are actively trying to push out of the discourse.  It doesn't tell you a damn thing about the voters or what would happen if he entered, that's beyond the scope of the poll.  You want a picture of what might happen?  Take the campaign question out of it and simply ask "who would you most like to see as President?"  Beats me how Gore would do but it would tell you a hell of alot more about voter sentiment than the stuff Chris is peddling here.

Let's review the facts on Gore.  

1)  In advance of the 2004 election Gore unequivocally gave a Sherman statement that he was not running and would not accept the nomination.  This completely ended speculation about his running.

2)  He has given a couple variations of "I'm not considering it and don't foresee it" statement this time, despite clearly knowing what a Sherman statement is how to deliver one.  He is aware of the speculation this time and has declined to squelch it.

3) He is obviously vested in dealing with Global Warming and has several events intended to push that issue forward scheduled in the coming months.  If he announces a candidacy before those events they will clearly be compromised as being "political events" designed to boost his candidacy.  He obviously won't do this.

4) He has plenty of name recognition and access to money, making a late entry viable.  He knows this, too.

5) He believes Global Warming is the greatest threat to mankind since nuclear war and has given no indication he trusts any other candidate to take care of it.

6) He won the election once and is more comfortable in his own skin than at any time since at least 1992.

Based on this, and particularly the last 2 points, I think it is more likely than not he will run.  In September or so.  But I could be wrong.  I sure as hell know better than to rely on national polling and statements given to try to drive the conversation back to Global Warming to divine anything about what's really going on.

I have no idea why it seems to piss Chris off so much that people think Gore's going to run but his obvious blindspot on this does a real disservice to his readers.


by micarrdc on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 12:12:02 PM EST

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

"Gore supporters are, in my estimation, disproportionately drawn from low-information voters who are less engaged with the campaign"?  Wow. Impressive.  Both asinine and insulting at once.

Agreed.


by poemless on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 01:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Come on. (none / 0)

The statement is not that Gore voter = low information.

The statement is that low information voters flock to the high name rec candidates.  Gore and Hillary, by far, had the higest name rec when the campaign season started.  Hence, Gore had a lot of low information voters who expressed a preference toward him.

That does not mean that every Gore voter is a low information voter.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 03:16:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Whither Gore Supporters? Whither Gore? (none / 0)

Gore didn't even win his home state of Tennessee in 2000. Unacceptable.


by tomanderson13 on Mon Apr 23, 2007 at 05:56:42 PM EST


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