Singer: Let me ask you specifically on that before I kind of follow up on the first part of the question, and that is there is also an issue reported by The New York Times but not reported in The Oregonian or really within Oregon that Gordon Smith took money from people who had an interest in a specific tax loophole that allowed people in the Virgin Islands to pay something like an effective 2.5 percent federal income tax but really it can't benefit Oregonians. He changed his position to allow multi-multi-millionaires to get out of taxes that way. And so it illustrates a couple points that he's not actually so moderate, after all, but also that we're just not hearing about it in Oregon. How do you break through that clutter?

Novick: Actually, Steve Duin wrote about that in his column, which is fairly well read.

Singer: But it's in a column, not...

Novick: Well, Steve Duin is on the front page of the Metro section. He's one of the most read things in the paper. But one thing that did get some traction was the fact that Gordon Smith is one of Congress' greatest abusers of corporate jets. And I think that once people have heard that... Once there's a campaign, people will start to pay attention. The reporters will start to pay attention. And I actually think The Oregonian has done a better job in the past couple of months than they've done in the previous five years.

And the corporate jet thing is a hook. It did get some traction. I think you start attaching other things to it. It's part of a pattern. This isn't just a one-time thing. These are the people Gordon Smith is comfortable with. These are the people he represents.

Singer: What lessons do we learn from his two successful Senate races in which there were Democratic candidates who on paper looked like they would have very good chances but in the end were not able to win against Smith?

Novick: Well, I worked for Tom Bruggere's campaign against Smith and Tom would have been a fine Senator. One flaw he had as a candidate was that he was a rich guy who I wish had been willing to spend more of his own money. I heard a story that Gordon Smith told a guy a know midway through the campaign that Tom Bruggere pledged to only spend a million dollars of his own money and Smith said, "I'm going to beat this guy. He's crazy. I know what it costs to buy name recognition in this state and he apparently doesn't."

So you had this odd situation of a wealthy candidate who got outspent by Smith. And Tom started off with very little name ID, and in fact virtually non-existent. And he would have been a fine Senator. He was all over the policy, but he wasn't a natural candidate. So that was one thing. And Smith got a chance to run twice in one year, so that kind of gave him an advantage.

And also at the end of 1996, it was kind of a pro-incumbent year, as it turned out. People were fairly satisfied. And having already run once that year against Wyden, Smith was sort of like the incumbent.

In 2002, it obviously turned out to be a Republican year and I think that Bill Bradbury is a great guy and he would have been a great Senator. But he did not do what you need to do against an incumbent Senator: He didn't draw sharp contrasts. And the war vote came right before the election and that was an opportunity for Bill to draw a sharp contrast and say, "No. Slow down. Don't rush into this thing." And I think he got bad advice from the DC folks and didn't come out strongly against the war and that was a real missed opportunity.

And I think Smith took advantage of, in 2002, the relationship that he has with Wyden where the two of them go around and do town halls together. And he used that to paint a picture of moderation. I will very aggressively from the beginning of this campaign point out that on the important votes, Smith and Wyden are on opposite sides. So yeah, they're nice to each other. They hang out and do town halls together. But on the war, Wyden was on the other side. On the bankruptcy bill, Wyden was on the other side. On the tax cuts, Wyden was on the other side. On the critical issues they vote against each other and cancel each other out. And I think that Ron Wyden is genuinely popular in this state and people realize that if they want Ron Wyden to have a true partner they should send me to the Senate.

Singer: Where else do you draw inspiration for your Senate run? Are there other races?

Novick: Well the obvious parallel, I was reading the book about Wellstone's campaign recently and I realized that if Wellstone can win I have no excuse for losing. Because I have the advantage that Wellstone had, which is that although he wasn't well known he was known to a cadre of committed activists. I mean I've worked on all these initiative campaigns, candidate campaigns over the past 10 years and the hardcore people in Oregon progressive politics who come out to save the state, they know me, which is the same kind of advantage that he had.

A huge advantage that I have that he didn't, just by basic timing, is the internet. The internet is the infrastructure of underdogs. That's what Howard Dean proved. And it's so much easier now. If people hear something about a candidate who's views they like on OPB or they see a snippet in the paper, then they can go immediately to the website and find out more and send some money, whereas I think in Wellstone's day you might hear something you like about Paul Wellstone and then there's no easy way to get a lot of information or to get involved. And you might not get involved til six months later. So if he was able to build a campaign from nothing and get outspent 7-to-1 and still win before the internet era, I've got no excuse.

And also, another thing about Wellstone is he made his money go further than anybody could have imagined because he had really entertaining ads. Bill Hillsman did these ads for him where they were take-offs on the movie "Roger and Me" where Michael Moore was trying to catch up with Roger Smith of GM. So they did this thing where Wellstone was purporting to run after and try to catch up to Rudy Boschwitz to engage him. And they did this fast-paced Paul where they sort of made a virtue of Wellstone's lack of money and he said [in a harried voice], "Hi, I'm Paul Wellstone and I'm running for Senate. I don't have $6 million, I only have $500,000 so I've got to talk. Here's my closet. See, no skeletons." That kind of thing.

I think that just by virtue of certain personal characteristics I have, which aren't really credentials to be in the Senate but you use what you've got, it will be difficult for me not to do memorable ads because there aren't too many 4'9" guys with left hooks running for Senate this year - or any year.

Singer: That's probably true. One story that's been in the news almost consistently for the last two or three months - it's not maybe the most watched story in American history, but it's a watched scandal - and that's the U.S. Attorney scandal. Tell me how you can speak to that issue as someone who worked in the Department of Justice, how your experience kind of plays into talking about what kind of changes there need to be to ensure that there is that firewall there between the Justice Department ensuring the justice, not the welfare of the Republican Party?

Novick: Well I'll tell you the story of my interview for my job at the environment division in 1987, when Reagan was President and Ed Meese was Attorney General. When I went in for an interview with the section chief, which was the highest non-political appointee, he told me our assistant attorney general, which is a political appointee, was from some right wing think tank out West, but don't worry about it. He doesn't bother us. And that was really the way it was. There was not political interference with career folks in the Justice Department during most of the Reagan and Bush I years that I was there.

Now it's totally different. The political influence is pervasive. My colleagues who are still at the Justice Department doing environmental law are constantly seeing their work undermined by the political agenda of the administration. And that really is a departure. Bush's father and the folks who served under him I think are probably deeply ashamed of the politicization of this administration.

Singer: Gordon Smith has kind of come out on the issue, to an extent, saying kind of Alberto Gonzales should resign but not really calling on him to resign. And again, illustrative of his type of political moves. I was wondering what type of contrast do you draw there?

Novick: I think that one of the themes of this campaign will be that when a politician tries to be on all sides of an issue you know he's not on your side. And Smith has done that to an outrageous degree on a number of issues, including that one.

For instance, the war. Smith is now voting with Chuck Hagel against the war. But even now he's still supporting John McCain for President, and if John McCain stood for anything it's to continue the war forever, as far as I can tell. So how can you be against the war and for John McCain?

Smith had the same issue with the Alaska Native Wildlife Refuge. He was against it, but if it was part of a budget bill, he'd vote for it.

Singer: What other types of contrasts, what other issues do you see that he's vulnerable on other than Iraq and some of these tax issues?

Novick: Again, not just tax issues, but he voted to undermine Oregon's minimum wage law, which is not a tax issue, it's a fairness issue.

Let's take healthcare. Ron Wyden has introduced a healthcare plan that provides universal coverage, controls costs. John Edwards has proposed a healthcare plan. Where's Gordon Smith's healthcare plan? He's been completely AWOL on the issue. So he's not been a leader.

And I think that voters are beginning to worry about the national debt. They know that we're borrowing a lot of money from China and it worries them what will happen if China decides to pull the plug. And the fact that Gordon Smith has done as much as any member of Congress to add $3 trillion to the national debt, a $10,000 charge to the credit care of every man, woman and child in America will be held against him.

Look at Gordon Smith's website. Go through his press releases from the last three years. In that time, not a single press release questioning a single item of spending. Meanwhile, he's voting for every one of Bush's tax cuts. I think that people will learn and react to the fact that, as far as budget issues are concerned, Gordon Smith's position is simple: If it increases the national debt, he's for it. He's the Senator for Visa. I think that will resonate.

And also on environmental issues, on global warming Smith said as late as late 2003 that scientists are evenly divided on whether global warming is real and even now he opposed the Kyoto Treaty. I think that people realize that this is a guy who doesn't do his homework, who doesn't know things that a Senator should know and spends a large amount of his time just parroting Republican talking points.

Singer: Now looking forward to the potential for a Democratic primary. And one doesn't want to undercut one's chances before the announcement. But realistically if someone with a larger name recognition - a Governor, a former Governor, if a Congressman - got in the race, do you see yourself going through to the end, or are there other people that you could support if they entered the race?

Novick: I will support the Democratic nominee unless it's Lyndon LaRouche. But the only people who are talking at all about running are Peter DeFazio and Earl Blumenauer. And if Peter DeFazio or Earl Blumenauer decided to join this race, that would be a great problem for Oregon Democrats to have.

Singer: What do you see as your path right now to getting the nomination. Are you going to be going all around the state? Are you going to be focusing more on one region or another?

Novick: I'll be going all around the state. I was in Medford three weeks ago and in Bend a week and a half ago and I was in Astoria on Sunday and going back for a party function in May. Definitely, it's a statewide campaign and you campaign statewide. Obviously a lot of the people are in the Willamette Valley and when I announce tomorrow I'll announce in Salem and Portland and Eugene because that's about as much ground you can cover in the course of a day and there's a lot of people there.

I think I will spend a fair amount of time in the suburbs. People always talk about the urban-rural divide. A lot of people live in the suburbs. And I plan to spend plenty of time in Clackamas Town Center and Washington Square mall shaking hands with people.

Singer: There are a number of theories about how to run a campaign. Some people are very much in favor of running a top-down, television-heavy blasting your message. How much will you rely on that versus plain old knocking on doors, trying to have your supporters knock on doors, kind of the Bus Project method?

Novick: We'll knock on doors. We'll use the internet. We'll run a thoroughly grassroots campaign. And that will gradually build us up the resources to do the television campaign at the end, which is exactly what Wellstone did.

You're not going to match Gordon Smith dollar for dollar, but you don't need to. Republicans have been outspending Democrats for a long time and Democrats beat them at least on occasion because they have the people - and we'll use the people.

And also, obviously, we hope that the rest of the country will help out. I hope the Netroots world will respond to the idea of a solidly progressive candidate with a 20-year history of fighting for the environment and fighting against right wing, anti-government goofballs.

Actually, when MyDD put out the Willamette Week article that I did a couple of months ago, I got emails from people in Florida and Pennsylvania and California, even though at that point I obviously wasn't near to being a declared candidate. That was great to hear and I hope that's expanded a thousand-fold.

Singer: And you'll be online with the website tomorrow?

Novick: The website is actually up now. We've had a couple of glitches with it, but most of it's up now.

Singer: It's at?

Novick: Actually we have two addresses. We have www.novickforsenate.com and www.votehook.com, because a friend of mine suggested grabbing that as an alternate address last week and strangely enough, votehook.com wasn't taken by anyone else.

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