Online preference polls & the '08 primary vote

The websites MyDD and DailyKos, along with Moveon, conducted presidential preference polls this month and here's the result:

                   DKos    MyDD    MoveOn    MoveOnHP   DFA   Democrats.com   

Edwards            42      43      25        25         24    41
Obama              25      34      28        19         28    18
Richardson         13       8      12        21          8     6
Clinton             3       4      11        7           9     9
Biden               0       1      6         10          2     2
Kucinich            2       1      17        16         10    24
Dodd                0       1      1         4           1     0
Some notes:

Richardson is beginning to happen, crawling out of the lower-tier pack and inching his way onto the radar of blog readers and MoveOn members.

Though these groups overlap some, the political-junkie blogs and MoveOn, there are some distinct differences. MoveOn has 35% or 37% that support Kucinich/Clinton/Biden/Dodd, compared with the two blogs that support those four candidates with only 5% or 7% support.

Even though he's dropped to second, MyDD continues to be the place for Obama supporters relative to the others. Obama's support is relatively unchanged over on DailyKos over the past 6 months. Obama's got solid support, but he's not growing-- Edwards is. He's now nearing 50 percent on the blogs.

Clinton's support averages about 5 percent, and has been trending down over the past couple of years on the blogs. Do you remember the polls coming out of Iowa in November of 2003 showing Clinton with a 20 percent lead over all others? I wonder if she sat on the bench in the year she was best positioned to win the Democratic nomination.

The netroots is the real world of politics. Polls have shown (Hotline '06) that a strong plurality of Democrats read blogs and nearly all of them (Pew) vote; we are a majority in primaries. Look to where the contrast of netroots-favored vs establisment-candidate played out in the primaries of '06 (MT, CT, VA). The question is whether the world of the netroots leads the world of primary voters in a Presidential election. The '04 of Iowa is an apt comparison, but it only goes so far --the net/blogs are 100x+ larger in readership now vs then.

The answer is probably in-between. I don't expect Clinton to get blown away with single-digits, but she's not really at 35-40% either. Her campaign has organization ability and institutional knowledge that gives her the ability to bring out the voters that are beyond the activists that read blogs, but a repeat of the dis-conjunct of '04 in '08 seems unlikely.

We are still 9 months away from the first votes, and something is going to give. The status quo scenario (the contrast continuing as is) leads to Clinton under-performing in the actual vote vs the polls; but it seems more likely that either Clinton is going start climbing among the netroots or she is going to start falling in the polls.

Update [2007-4-17 14:34:1 by Jerome Armstrong]:
I've added in the Democrats.com poll numbers to the tally, where Obama is a bit weaker, Clinton a bit stronger, and Kucinich is much stronger. And added in Democracy For America's March pulse numbers.



Display:


Comment (none / 0)

Unless Clinton does a huge about-face on some of her positions, there is no way I see Clinton rising among the blogs.

You know what I find amusing? When I reply to posts and the titles are too long for the comment subject line!


by MNPundit on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:27:06 PM EST

Re: Comment (none / 0)

Yea, that's annoying.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:30:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

about-face (none / 0)

What positions? (assuming you mean policy positions, not rhetorical stances such as her explanation for her Iraq War Resolution vote).


by souvarine on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 04:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Online preference polls (none / 0)

The DailyKos poll has serious problems.  After voting for Obama yesterday I noticed I was still able to vote.  It wouldn't accept me voting multiple times for Obama, but did accept me voting multiple times for Edwards.  I even logged a vote for Clinton before finally it stopped letting me vote again.  I don't know if others had this experience, but that was mine.  I doubt though that I was the only person who was able to do this.


by dougdilg on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:28:21 PM EST

Re: Online preference polls (none / 0)

I saw your comment on this yesterday. I believe that anyone can vote multiple times, for different candidates, on the dKos straw poll. In that sense, it's just as likely that Obama, Edwards, Richardson, Kucinich, or even Hillary got significantly fewer legitimate votes than the results would suggest.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am very happy with Obama (3.00 / 1)

despite Edwards being my #1, Obama does a lot of good things for Edwards.

Black voters love Bill Clinton and there's no way Edwards would get much support.  Obama helps split that.

Hillary's inevitability campaign was squashed single handidly by Obama's fundraising prowess.

Hillary's campaign as the first credible "woman" candidate was also squashed by Obama's firstness.

Richardson has no domestic agenda or at least not one the blogosphere liberals would support if they critically evaluated it.


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:30:56 PM EST

I'm glad Obama's in the race, too. (none / 0)

As one major Edwards' donor was quoted as saying, "I think Hillary and Obama are going to destroy each other."


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:13:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am very happy with Obama (none / 0)

It was a bit of a throwaway line, but I'm wondering what, exactly, you think Richardson's domestic agenda is lacking?  

He's got serious efforts to combat global warming, including a commitment to developing renewable energy and energy efficiency.  Economic policy focused on things like "a tax credit for companies who create good paying jobs, tax incentives for start up high tech businesses, and targeting job creation in rural areas."  Education funding.  A balanced budget.  

And he is possibly the only candidate who is talking about the economy in a way that makes it clear he has the wherewithal and desire to work with corporations to find mutually beneficial arrangements.  

I guess you believe "blogosphere liberals" reject such ideas out of hand, which may be true, but might reflect as badly on them as it does on Richardson.  Working with corporations is not a good in and of itself, but ignoring the immense power that they possess and trying to ram massive changes through at their expense seems less useful than developing innovative solutions that manage to encourage those corporations to adopt policies that will help real people.  At the very least, it's worth trying, I think.  

I'm curious what substantive objections people have to Richardson.  I think he's an interesting candidate and I'd like to get a better sense of what people think.


by Baldrick on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 12:26:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"plurality" (none / 0)

The netroots is the real world of politics. Polls have shown (Hotline '06) that a strong plurality of Democrats read blogs and nearly all of them (Pew) vote; we are a majority in primaries.

Hi Jerome, can you provide links for these 3-4 claims, please?

You can't say anything about pluralities in a vacuum. A strong plurality of Democrats read blogs, as opposed to what? And how big was the plurality? A plurality can be 49% or 5%.


The truth about McCain
by nstrauss on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:35:49 PM EST

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Google is your friend. 27% was the plurality iirc.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 02:38:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "plurality" (none / 0)

Sorry, can you include a link? I don't know what to Google for.


The truth about McCain
by nstrauss on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 04:25:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Online preference polls & t (3.00 / 1)

Rasmussen asks likely voters would you definitely vote for or definitely not vote for each candidate.

This month he found good news for Obama--and I think very good news for Richardson, my second choice.  

First Obama:

Thirty-three percent (33%) of Likely Voters say they'd definitely vote for Illinois Senator Barack Obama (D). That's the highest total received by any of ten leading Presidential hopefuls included in the poll. Thirty-three percent (33%) also say they'd definitely vote against Obama giving him a net differential of zero (33% definitely for minus 33% definitely against equals net differential of 0). All other candidates have a net differential in negative territory meaning more people are set to definitely vote against them rather than for them. Other polling during the past month found Obama's favorability ratings have increased to the highest level of any 2008 candidate

Richardson, out of all the candidates from both parties, has the lowest (28%) number of people who say that they would definitely vote against him.  Now he needs to improve in the voting for category (10%) but he does not have to make up nearly as as much ground as many of the others.

I think that this sort of poll shows why the GOP is pining for Clinton and the Dems should be hoping for Gingrich.  When 48% say that they will definately not for a person--it is not impossible to win but you have to capture almost 100 percent of all remaining voters in order to win.  Pretty tough to do.

http://rasmussenreports.com/Political%20 Tracking/Dailies/April%202007/fororAgain st20070417.htm


by aiko on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:37:32 PM EST

Pulling for Richardson (3.00 / 0)

I'm really hoping for a strong people powered insurgency to boost him up into the top 3. While I really like what Edwards is saying and to some extent Obama, Richardson's got them aced as far as actual accomplishments and experience in addition to the fact that he's saying all the right things.


by beedee on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:57:45 PM EST

Re: Pulling for Richardson (none / 0)

You mean like health care being either a) free or b)payable by the money that is going to Iraq now (depending on the day).

not sure if he's quite saying "all" the right things


by okamichan13 on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:34:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pulling for Richardson (none / 0)

All the right things, like this about Alberto Gonzales:

Richardson: Yeah, I know. I'm rooting for him, I like the guy, I know him. I hope he survives, but he's got to clean up his act and at least know what's happening in his department. ...

Tavis: So you would not call for his stepping down right now.

Richardson: No, no. And you know what? Part of it maybe is because he's the highest-ranking Hispanic ever.

Tavis: But wrongdoing is wrongdoing, though. If he did wrong.

Richardson: Well, I think it's more a lack of attention, lack of a plan, lack of being thorough. He's too much the president's lawyer. He's too much of a political person. And I recognize that. ...

Richardson: ... But there's a human side to me. The guy's a very, very--came up from a very poor family, he's the highest-ranking Hispanic ever. Maybe I'm waiting a little more so that he cleans up his act before I join everybody else and try to, I guess, make some political hay out of this.


by billybob on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:57:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pulling for Richardson (none / 0)

This Alberto Gonzales thing is why I hope with all my fiber that he is not the Pres. or VP nominee.  Everyone gets excited about his position on Iraq, but for me Iraq is transparent.  Transparent in the sense that we know roughly how many troops are there; we know the cost; and we know that Congress has the power to end it.  Alberto Gonzales and this administrations' attack on the Constitution has not been transparent and we have only begin to reveal the depths of this man's corruption.  
1.  He thought torture was just fine (hence the moniker Abu Al).  Abu Ghraib was a huge Black eye for America.

2.  He has never fricking heard of habeas corpus.

3.  He thought wiretapping without consulting the FISA Court perfectly fine.

4. He was instrumental in the abuse of the National Security Letters sent out by the FBI.

5.  He corroborated with the White House to fire competent attorney (ones who followed the laws of the land) and replace them with political hacks, who wanted to prosecute things like non-existent voter fraud and other Democrats.  He has packed the justice department with unqualified Regent University graduates, so much for separation of church and state.

6.  He undermined the Civil Litigation's Division's case against the tobacco companies.

I'm just Jane Q Public, and I know enough to see that there isn't enough cleaning in the world to correct what Abu Al et al have done.  It's more than political hay as far as I'm concerned.  It makes Richardon a no-go for me.


by Kingstongirl on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 10:11:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

re (none / 0)

when dem primary voters find out that 48% of likely voters say thier definately going to vote against Hillary as thier nominee I suspect actual Hillary votes will move closer tho the support among the politically active.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 01:59:09 PM EST

Obama and Daily Kos, MyDD (3.00 / 6)

Obama got a wave of crap for his so-called enabling remarks over continued funding of the Iraq War that is almost entirely responsible for his drop IMHO. I don't think the criticism was particularly fair on policy grounds as it seems to focus almost entirely on 'framing' the Iraq War debate - a debate that is more about whipping votes from now until January '09 than it is political framing. Framing is most effective when people have low-information and poorly formed views on an issue. Iraq doesn't fit that model.

I think some of the dynamic of the Daily Kos polling is the refusal to acknowledge how the actual mechanisms of government actually work. If you take the Daily Kos leadership polls Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have flip flopped their approval ratings since the new Congress took over - with Pelosi skyrocketing from her days as Minority Leader and Reid plummeting since his days as Minority Leader.

Why? Reid was able to block bad things with 40% opposition in the Senate. Pelosi could do nothing to block in the House. Now Speaker Pelosi wins every battle with 50%+1 but Majority Leader Reid is hamstrung but the need to get 60 votes to accomplish anything in the Senate.

Obama gets creamed on Daily Kos and MyDD by some who refuse to acknowledge building support for legislation in the Senate is much different than building a 50%+1 strategy to win an election. Edwards has the strongest rhetoric on Iraq but does it have any chance of building a coalition to either A) gain 2/3 support to override a veto or B) prevent the likes of Pryor, Landrieu, and Carper from defecting to more of a 'clean' bill? Obama's 'short leash' funding which has not been fleshed out but is likely a hybrid of 1 quarter of funding with the Iraq Accountability Act pushed by the Blue Dogs (and Iraq vet Rep. Patrick Murphy) is compatable with passing Feingold-Reid. The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can have 'short leash' for 2Q and then have a great chance of passing Feingold-Reid or something similar this fall.

But Feingold-Reid just doesn't have the votes today. It might in 3 months, or 6 months, or 9 months but it doesn't today. Just look at the vote totals of the Gregg Amendment and Kerry-Feingold from last year. So what do Feingold-Reid supporters do when it fails by 15 votes around May? Blame Obama?

Edwards spiked in the Daily Kos poll because he doesn't have to deal with the rules of the Senate any more. IMHO Obama did well to hold his own in the netroots under heavy criticism.


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 02:09:20 PM EST

Re: Obama and Daily Kos, MyDD (3.00 / 1)

Obama's base is not on policy based blogs it's among the general grassroots instead of the more specific and much less numerous "netroots".


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 02:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and Daily Kos, MyDD (none / 0)

This is a terrifically insightful point. Not for the discussion of Obama, but for the relative approval ratings for Reid and Pelosi. I don't know what to say other than right on.


by hubbird on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:24:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and Daily Kos, MyDD (none / 0)

Which may be the reason that Senators rarely win presidential campaigns.


by mrobinsong on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Richardson (none / 0)

    I bet this slow rise of Richardson is correlated with a slow drop in support of Hillary.  I realize that they have different positions, but they're both former DLCers.  Richardson is probably more of a "centrist" candidate than Obama or Edwards.  I think Richardson steals support directly from Hillary supporters.  
    His eventual rise to the top tier, I think, would have to involve knocking someone down to the bottom tier.  The top tier is not big enough to hold four candidates.  Here's to hoping Richardson delivers the knock out blow to Hillary's primary candidacy.
Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 02:13:13 PM EST

Re: Richardson (none / 0)

Richardson may also be taking some from the stealth member of the top tier, "undecided".

But here's hoping something knocks Hillary out of the top tier so that the first primaries have a chance to knock her out of serious consideration altogether.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:03:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson (none / 0)

Richardson may also be taking some from the stealth member of the top tier, "undecided".

I tend to think it's "other" ("other" and "no clue" were where the drops in this month's DKos poll happened), and that specifically it's the current unofficial fourth top-tier candidate -- Al Gore.


by aaronetc on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Richardson (none / 0)

I guess if there are some Gore supporters that liked both Sustainable Energy and NAFTA style bogus free trade agreements, they would be attracted to Richardson.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:18:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

crazy as it may sound (3.00 / 1)

I would not rule out a Richardson rise in Iowa pushing Clinton into fourth place (behind Edwards, Obama and Richardson).

I hear a lot of people saying they want to hear more from Richardson, but they are not considering Hillary.

In 2003 I would have thought you were crazy if you said Gephardt might finish fourth in Iowa. His problem was that there was no room for growth in his numbers. No undecideds were considering him. I see Hillary in the same situation now.

What I don't know is if Richardson is going to make a serious play for Iowa. If he does, I think there is an opening for him.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: crazy as it may sound (none / 0)

This seems like an important point that I don't hear very often.  I can't imagine that there are many people who are going to be convinced to support Clinton at this point.  Either they already do or they're never going to.  In the former, there's room change your mind, in the latter, not so much.


by Lucas O'Connor on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:43:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

MoveOn polls weren't on presidential preference (3.00 / 1)

They were on which candidates gave stronger presentations on Iraq, which while important is only a single issue. That's an important distinction.


Stop blaming the media. The FACTS have a liberal bias.
by McSnatherson on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 02:40:30 PM EST

Re: MoveOn polls weren't on presidential preferenc (none / 0)

This is an important point. There will be, as I understand it, two further Issue Forums at MoveOn.org, one on health care and one on global warming and/or energy independence. I expect that there will be shuffling of results in each of those as different candidate's strengths come to the fore.


*John Edwards* ... and the JE08 Supporters Blog
by BruceMcF on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DFA Results (none / 0)

I know these results are from April, but here are the results from Democracy for America's Pulse Poll in late March:

Barack Obama 27.69%
John Edwards 24.32%
Other(Mostly Gore) 13.32%
Dennis Kucinich 10.44%
Hillary Clinton 8.51%
Bill Richardson 7.56%
Undecided 4.82%
Joseph Biden 1.87%
Christopher Dodd 0.53%


Leftmost Bit
by Luigi Montanez on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:03:30 PM EST

Re: DFA Results (none / 0)

Thanks, will add them in.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 03:34:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Richardson's rise (none / 0)

I would love to see Richardson's foreign policy experience change things in the upcoming debates.  He has the best ideas for getting out of Iraq, and if he can become "top tier", these policies will get a lot more coverage.  


by DocD on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 04:37:22 PM EST

You Can't Be Serious (none / 0)

I'm passed the point of getting annoyed at the Anti-Obama posts and now find them quite hilarious because I know what spirit is really behind it, but I will say this in keeping on topic. I can't tell you how many e-mails I receive that say this:

Edwards Poll. Vote now! Time is of the essence. Show some love. Freep This Immeditaley.

LOL.

Then I see this chart posted like it's some scientific hard core poll and evidence that Edwards is preferred over Obama.

ROFLMAO!


"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama
by ObamaEdwards2008 on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:04:40 PM EST

Re: You Can't Be Serious (none / 0)

Who's sending those emails?  I get none.


"And so in the place of the palace of privilege, we seek to build a temple out of faith and hope and charity."-FDR
by jallen on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 06:39:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Online preference polls & the '08 = (none / 0)

I know commenting on possible tickets gets annoying but Richardson is more and more looking like a really obvious VP choice ESPECIALLY if Edwards gets the nomination.


by js noble on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 05:14:18 PM EST

Re: Online preference polls (none / 0)

Edwards has said he won't run for VP spot again.


by mrobinsong on Tue Apr 17, 2007 at 08:17:36 PM EST


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