On Cutting Slack

Over the past week, I've been getting a huge amount of pushback in the comments.  In this most recent post where I highlighted Howard Fineman and Obama/Daschle insiders and their notion that Tom Daschle has no enemies and is widely loved in the Democratic Party, I titled my post 'Can someone start an enemies list already?'  It was a caustic joke that some of you got and some of you didn't.  I should have been clearer.

The point was not to start an enemies list, but to make the observation that the DC consensus is oriented around corporate friendly political figures.  People like Daschle, who encourage their staffers go into corporate lobbying and do it themselves, are seriously problematic.  These are the Democrats that consistently screw progressive values, that encourage bad messaging, that create the funding problems that starve progressives.  Frequently, as demonstrated by the Imus flap, they inhabit a world of white male boomer journalist/pundits who are reflexively defensive of racism and misogyny as long as it's 'in the club'.

These are the people who lose us campaigns.  Tom Daschle, though he's not responsible for the Kerry campaign, presided over the loss of the Senate in 2002, and the right-wing turn in 2004.  Prior to that, he negotiated the massive Bush tax cuts in 2001 and strongly supported the war.  The notion that this guy has no enemies and is a key force in the Obama campaign, a campaign that is apparently based on an antiwar frame, is and should be nauseating to progressive activists.  It should be especially nauseating to progressives working in the Obama campaign (as I know it is).  

Each of us has a little power, and how we use it matters.  Every time we give in to that cynical voice, that voice that says we should ignore the open and flagrant corruption in front of us, we are acting immorally.  Every comment, every blog post, every conversation, every vote, every piece of legislation.  Every donation.  Every single action.  I work extremely hard at this because it's my passion, but also because I am horrified and outraged at the moral violence we permit as Democrats and as Americans to people in this country and around the world.  We are complicit in how our country behaves.  Each one of us.  And I think, at some level, that is why each of us is on the blogs, whether you agree with my rhetorical style or not.  In our own way, we want to change the country to be more progressive.

I'd like to explain a bit about my approach towards politics with the goal of helping all of us understand some of the arguments going on with this site.  There are different ways of diagnosing the sickness befalling America at this point.  Maybe Bush is the problem.  Maybe the Republicans in general are the problem.  Perhaps it's the media, which lies to us.  Or maybe it's the DLC, which infects our world with bad data and arguments.  Perhaps it's the corporate elite, which doesn't hold its own accountable.  There are any number of explanations, most of which I've subscribed to over the past few years.  When I watched what happened in the Kerry campaign, how the Alito fight went down, and various insider processes in the Democratic Party, I began to wake up to what I think is a fundamental truth about America, indeed any liberal democracy.

The sickness of America belongs to every citizen of America.  Every time we walk by a homeless person, or let a child go hungry, or allow an invasion of a country which causes the deaths of millions, it's our problem.  We let it happen.  That's what it means to be an American.  We get the right to participate, but we must also take responsibility for what the polity does.  This is true for other institutions as well, such as the Democratic Party.  As a Democrat, I am represented by our nominee in 2008, whether I like it or not.  What Senator Clinton does in that role is my responsibility, not just hers.  That's what it means to be a Democrat and a citizen.  You can't divorce yourself from your country or your party, and pretend that the problems we cause or let happen somehow don't belong to each of us as individuals.

This is how I see patriotism, but the consequence is very personal.  I take the failures of Democratic leaders as personal failures.  When they do the right thing, I take personal pride in their actions.  That's what patriotic citizenship means to me; it means taking responsibility for what America does in all its aspects, while enjoying the privilege of having some incredibly tiny amount of control in affecting that outcome.

There are several consequences of this framework.  One is that I don't particularly value 'niceness' in discourse.  When I have reflexively defended politicians because they have a D after their name while ignoring the evidence, I believe I have acted immorally and irresponsibly.  That isn't 'nice'.  It's not comfortable.  It isn't persuasive in a sugar-coated happy-talk kind of way, which is all we're used to hearing in our politics at this point.  And believe me, I don't like causing discomfort.  

Here's the reality that flows from this concept of citizenship, which could be considered 'self-righteousness'.  I believe that millions of people are dead because we as a party and as a movement weren't strong enough to stop Bush, and millions more will die because we are willing to tolerate open dishonesty from our candidates and our elites, and pretend like Tom Daschle's genial manner should be the key point of judgment.    I hold myself accountable for this, both because of my overall analytical framework but also because on a practical level I have been duped by insiders and regretted it.  Every single time I have trusted insiders against my better judgment I have been embarrassed or ripped off.  Every single time.  Every single time I have spoken out when I saw wrongs it was the right thing to do, both morally and practically.

I consider it immoral to let the charade of dishonesty that pervades our insider culture to continue.  I have cut these people slack and regretted it because I became more complicit than I already am.  After watching and engaging in the last few years of politics, I no longer feel the need to prove that DC politicians and insiders ought to be treated skeptically.  This isn't to say that I'm reflexively anti-Democrat, just that Democratic leaders should prove themselves.  Speaker Pelosi has done this.  Russ Feingold has done this as well.  Schumer and Obama have done this in some ways, but not others.  TV is a very powerful enemy in this regard, in that it venerates the powerful and constantly impresses upon us fictions and myths about America.  One of these myths is that discomfort is a bad thing, another one is that it is the duty of Americans to support their country and its leadership in all its actions.  I don't believe these myths anymore.  For me, discomfort in the pursuit of justice is a small price to pay, and dissent isn't just patriotic, it's practical.

We are told, as Americans, that we ought to stop believing our lying eyes.  We are encouraged to consider people like Daschle our allies, simply because of his privileged place in the political system, and overlook the genuinely immoral activity of his, which is about selling access.  We are encouraged to wallow in the fat of the 1990s, and forget about how Clinton (and Carter) sold out the working class with NAFTA, and how we let him.  The messages encouraging us to defend these actions and forget about the larger overall picture are strong, very strong, because the interests behind them are wealthy and powerful beyond belief.  These interests create suburbs to buffer us from realities we'd rather not see, and pleasing images on TV to create a cocoon of geniality.  They produce large amounts of legal drugs while telling us drugs are bad when bad people take them.  They justify murder and secrecy with the incoherent notion of 'national security'.  

We must resist these interests, because that's what a realignment in politics really means.  It means that entirely new possibilities open up, not in an idealistic sense, but in a very practical sense.  As activists who believe not only that America is sick, but that American can be cured through our own personal involvement, it is our duty to resist the siren call of corruption.  As activists, as citizens, we must recognize that if we do not act, if we refuse to believe our lying eyes, then America will not be cured, and as we are citizens, that is on our shoulders as moral beings.  We can change the world and America if we want to.  In fact, as Wes Clark said, we can do it because we are doing.  

So that's where I come from, and that's why I use the rhetoric I do.  I hope that clears things up.  And now I'm going to take a break from MyDD for a few days so I can think about your criticisms some more.



Display:


Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

Matt,

Please don't take a break on account of things said in the comments.

You have a tendency to get a little overzealous, but at the heart of it I think that you come from the right place.  

And I think that the criticism of yourself and Chris  over the past week says more about the people making the comments than yourself.

Last night, I nearly went meta, and posted a diary on this topic.  The allegations made against you and Chris are out of line and uncalled for.

Nothing that you have said or done is worthy of the faux outrage of late.

By surrendering to this group of commenters, you're allowing them to control the discussion here.  And they are making these criticisms to deflect due (and appropriate) criticism made by frontpagers towards their candidate.

If you need a break that's cool, but don't let them silence you.  

The silent majority here supports you, and I'd ask others to express that support in this thread.


by ManfromMiddletown on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 12:55:21 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Thanks.  


by Matt Stoller on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 12:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Stoller,

It isn't just about you.  

This is why I wrote you last weekend.

There comes a time when people out last their welcome and should be asked to leave.  That passed long ago for many involved.


by ManfromMiddletown on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Good luck, Matt.  Blogs seem to be emotional places.  I agree with Man From Middletown that you have your heart in the right place.

Sometimes a few days away from work does wonders.

Hang in there.  In the end, we all are on the same side.


by littafi on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah (3.00 / 3)

I must admit that I hadn't read to the end of your post when I posted the comment below...

I hope you have an excellent, restorative break. This place isn't the same when you're not around.

Personally, I don't mind you using the rhetoric you use--you're an angry romantic, and I respect that. What I mind is your taking offense when people take offense.

Debate is good. Let the debate continue.


by david mizner on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:34:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

More thanks. This isn't a game -- it is our country and our lives. And lot of folks don't even get to play. So we better play honest, hard and fair.


Can It Happen Here?
by janinsanfran on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let the Revolution Begin (none / 0)

Matt,

As far as I'm concerned, you have been right on in virtually everything you have said and done since I've been reading MyDD. You have articulated the dynamics of what is at play in our deformed government masquerading as a democracy more clearly than all but a few of the truth-tellers whose minds are at work on what can be done. The only thing you have left undone is to call for the revolution from below that is needed to overthrow the system - a web-enabled, people-powered digital revolution.

What you have accomplished - for which I am hugely grateful - is to provide me the ammunition I have needed in developing Citizens' Winning Hands over the past year (see Manifesto below) through both the tone and the substance of what you have been saying and doing...especially your frustration at the paucity of options for bringing about radical change in the way our deformed system works.

I have wracked my brain to think of ways around the impediments to change that you have correctly and persistently attacked. What I have come up with provides self-executing mechanisms by which American voters at the grassroots can empower themselves in the near term to autonomously wrest control of electoral and legislative processes from the triad of wealthy individuals, large corporations and corrupt politicians who now control them.

Political and economic change is going to be driven by voters at the grassroots aided and abetted by the progressive blogsphere and outspoken, clear-thinking individuals like you joining forces with them. The "misplaced concreteness" of the current obsession with the chit-chat that is taking place regarding the 2008 presidential elections is far less important than what is taking place at the grassroots as the progressive revolution that is now underway gathers steam.

So hang in there and keep calling the shots as you see them.

****

Citizens' Winning Hands Manifesto

The time has come to declare the start of the second American Revolution.

The enemy is the triad of wealthy individuals and large corporations in complicity with corrupt politicians whose campaigns they have financed in order to usurp the political and economic power that belongs to all Americans.

This triad has seriously eroded popular sovereignty in the U.S. over the past 30 years by structurally and functionally deforming U.S. electoral and legislative processes, principally through gerrymandering and campaign financing. This deformation has led to the political and economic disenfranchisement of Americans in all walks of life, preventing them from playing decisive roles in political and economic arenas where decisions are made affecting their livelihoods and vital interests.

This erosion of popular sovereignty and deformation of the American political system has led to the largest transfer of wealth to the wealthy in recorded non-wartime history. This transfer is primarily due to the failure of representatives elected in this deformed system to enforce U.S. laws prohibiting unfair business practices, excess profits and union busting. It has permitted the large corporations that now dominate the U.S. economy to hold down wages and impose unwarranted and unreasonable increases in consumer prices for essential goods and services. The rising cost of living is now outstripping the stagnating incomes of millions of working Americans and jeopardizing the survival of the middle class.

The election of a new U.S. president and Congress in 2008 will not reform the American political system or re-enfranchise American citizens politically and economically. To the contrary, even with the trend shown by recent public opinion polls for Independent voters to switch their support from the Republican Party to the Democratic Party, the results of the 2008 elections are likely to reflect rather than change the system and leave untouched its dominance by wealthy individuals, large corporations and influence-peddling politicians.

The restoration of popular sovereignty cannot be accomplished by political parties, winning candidates, advocacy groups or coalitions working from the top of the political system. Nor can it be restored within the foreseeable future by redistricting projects, campaign finance reform initiatives or changes to the "winner-take-all" electoral system. Only voters, progressive activists and established democratic stakeholders who join forces at the grassroots independently of contemporary political alignments can rebuild the American democracy and revive the free enterprise system on a level playing field.

They must seize control of electoral and legislative processes simultaneously in order to ensure that their representatives pass laws which

  • Distribute tax burdens fairly among all segments of the population -- particularly those most able to contribute
  • Provide government the tax revenues it needs to provide essential social services and fulfill its entitlement obligations
  • Ensures that the free enterprise system functions fairly and effectively to create the jobs, livelihoods and retained wealth that working Americans have the right to expect.

The second American Revolution will be fought at the grassroots over the Internet by ordinary citizens armed with unprecedented digital weaponry. Citizens' Winning Hands is proud  to provide the American public a revolutionary digital arms cache that they can access via its website, www.CitizensWinningHands.net, free of charge. It contains a unique repertory of democracy-building tools and services that they can use to create their own winning voting blocs across party lines comprised of individuals with similar political agendas. They can use their voting blocs to run and elect their own candidates for office at all levels of government to implement their political agendas without raising money from wealthy individuals or corporations -- and easily defeat candidates who do. Let the revolution begin!


Nancy Bordier is the founder of Citizens' Winning Hands (www.citizenswinninghands.net)
by Nancy Bordier on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your stuff is incredibly prescient (none / 0)

You're one of the best commentators out there on the insitutional roadblocks getting in the way of a democratic party and progressive movement that really represents the citizenry.


by northcountry on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 06:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I agree. Keep writing. You know, if you still want to, which I hope you do. :)


by taraleigh on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, come on (3.00 / 1)

Sometimes people from within the netroots sound like critics, lamenting the incivility here. There's a veritable Polite Police over at Kos; they're mostly Obama supporters seeking to shut down debate, and of course the whole "troll rating" apparatus is nothing more than a vehicle for shutting down debate. Study people, history, the netroots is a remarkably civil forum--it's not even done face to face! Do you know what it was like in the sixites or thirties or teens? Rent Reds. Sticks and stones and all that. Christ. In my short time psoting and blogging, I've been called a racist, an asshole, a shill, and a liar. Who cares? Not me. Really, the thinness of the skin around here is amazing. I chuckle everytime someone write a "How dare you question my integrity" post. How dare I? It's really quite easy.

Bowers calls Edwards and Obama supporters "idiots" for debating. Okay, fair enough, but then he wants us not to hit back with tough words? Stoller crticized Edwards for being a neocon warmonger in thrall to the security state; he sees contradiction in his positions where none exists, then complains when we call him dishonest or unfair. How dare we! This is politics, people--I, for one, am having fun. Isn't anyone else?

As for yesterday, Bowers made a claim based on an alleged difference between Edwards'ss position and that of Richardson--a difference that as of this minute might not exist. And Bowers kept walking back his criticism without ackowledging he was doing so. First, Edwards, as opposed to Richardson, would keep troops "in the region." Then we pointed out that Richardson would too. Then Stoller attacked Edwards for, among other things, his committment to keeping troops there to protect the embassy. Then we pointed out that Richardson would too. Stoller went on record opposing the presence of an embassy in Iraq, whereas Bowers is with Edwards with this one. I guess Stoller is to the left of Bowers! So we're left only with the quesiton of troops to guard aid missions. Guess we're still waiting for an answer from Richardson.

All this is good, right? Why the handwringing? Bowers and Stoller wrote toughminded posts that some of us thought were unfair; We said so. This is how it's supposed to work, right?

This has become my favorite blog mainly because of the level of debate and the passion and earnestness of the primary posters.
But it would be even better if there wasn't this silly sensitvity. The schoolmarmish threats of banning, and actual bannings, only harm this place.

Some unhumble advice, smile when someone calls you assholes or liars. If this place is gonna be the place I think it can be, stop banning people. It's anti-democratic, anti-free speech, anti-progressive.


by david mizner on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:56:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hahaha! (none / 0)

"mostly obama supporters"... that's a good one!


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:03:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hahaha! (none / 0)

How's that persona working out for you?

Gonna try something else? Think you should.


by david mizner on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:22:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ok, what do you recommend? (none / 0)

john edwards supporter victimhood complex? that seems to be working out well for you all...


mydd straw poll vote: 1. other (gore) 2. unsure 3. dodd 4. edwards 5. obama
by colorless green ideas on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:49:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (1.66 / 3)

Matt, I think both you and Chris could stand to be a little more responsible in your posting, and a break for a few days might be a good idea.  But the important thing is that you're running a great blog and fighting the good fight -- I can put up with your going off half-cocked occasionally.


by DaveMB on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:00:46 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 0)

What does that even mean "be more responsible" in our posting? Responsible to whom? Responsible to what? responsible how?

I have my own answers to these questions, based on on view of what MyDD is, and what we are trying to accomplish. But I really want to know what in god's name you mean be being "more responsible."
by Chris Bowers on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:34:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (1.00 / 0)

I think you post rants that would be more effective if you thought about them more.  Matt's conclusion that Obama is now in bed with Fox because he answered Hume's question at a press conference was an irresponsible one, and I say that as an Edwards supporter.  A while back you came to the conclusion that the entire "Politics[State]" family of web sites was an active VRWC conspiracy, and maintained that conclusion for a long time in the face of considerable evidence.

Look, I admire you a lot, particularly that you're willing to get down and dirty within the Pennsylvania party.  And I think this blog is an enormously valuable resource -- unlike DKos, it's possible and worthwhile to read the comments.  But on occasion I think you go off the deep end.


by DaveMB on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:52:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 1)

You seem to be viewing us in a media outlet frame, instead of in an activist frame. Viewing us as "irresponsible" because we occasionally make factual errors--to which we post corrections--seems to presume that our first objective at MyDD is to be an objective outlet of information. We are not the New York Times. That is just not our purpose.

We operate from a mindset of agitation and organizati The only way we can be "irresponsible" in my view is if we are intentionally misleading or dishonest to the activists and political professionals for whom we write. Slacking off wouldn't help either.

Holding back out thoughts would be a form of intentional dishonesty, because we would not be forthcoming in any conversation we were having. Posting information we knew to be false would be a form of intentional dishonesty, but we don't do that. Further, fact-checking it not our primary purpose before making a post--gathering our thoughts into a coherent argument is. Not posting corrections to statements we learned were false would be a form of dishonesty. Not revealing consulting conflicts of interests would be a form of dishonesty.

Our primary responsibility is to be honest, coherent, insightful, and hard-working for the progressive activists and political professionals who read this site. That is the frame under which I operate, not one of information distribution for generalized public consumption. Under that frame, I think we are absolutely responsible. If you judge us as trying to be CNN, maybe you would think otherwise, but I don't think that is a useful way to view us. Our front page can be edited, and our views can change. It is a conversationa nd an ongoing process--not something that has to be 100% "fair and balanced" the first time it is posted.
by Chris Bowers on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:14:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Thanks for a nice summary of where you're coming from.  I fully believe you're posting what you believe and I appreciate that.  I would find you more valuable as an activist and agitator if I could trust the factual basis of what you say 99% of the time instead of 95% (contrasted with 80% for other people I really enjoy reading).  But if occasional carelessness is the price we pay for your posting "honestly, with passion", I'll deal with that.  I can get journalism from other places like TPM.


by DaveMB on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:56:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 2)

Your point is good.

I have a question and I do no presuppose an answer to it.  Do you think you should have asked the Edwards campaign what "regime" meant before arguing it meant Iraq.  The answer may be "no," and that is okay.  I do not see it as ambiguous, but most words can be seen as ambiguous.  Iraq is within the region.

It's a blog and you certainly can call it the way you see it.  And it is okay to be wrong.  Big deal.  The only way to never be wrong is to never say anything.  That is not a problem with me.

I did not mind the initial posts regarding the "regime" issue.  I made my point and people debated.  The campaign eventually resolved the issue.

I was surpised about the embassy issues after that, though.  And the warning I received for supposedly accusing a front page diary writer of posting falsehoods.  I disagree that my comment did that.  I don't do that.  I felt the warning was unfair.

It all seemed to run out of control.  At that point I left and thought about not returning.

This can be a very effective forum.  It is more intellectual at times than some other blogs.  But it broke down yesterday, not in the original post about Richardson and "regime," etc., but after that.

There appears to be some history between some folks and one front page diarest.  I don't know it because I was not around.

Something happened yesterday here and I do not think it was good for the site.  It is your site, though.  We are guests. That "warning" I received reminded me of my place in the debate.  It chilled my voice and made me wonder if I should return.

I'm here today, but I still have not decided whether to stay.  I'm just one person; it's no big deal. Lots of other folks will come by regardless of whtether I do or not.

Yesterday made me feel extremely uncomfortable here.  Now you can react defensively to that if you wish.  I thought I owed it to you, Chris, because I generally like what you say, to tell you my truth.  What you do with it is up to you.


by littafi on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:35:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 1)

Regime? You mean region?

Good point about the threatened bannings. That was strange.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:19:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Yes, sorry, meant "region."  Brain cramp.


by littafi on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think (3.00 / 1)

you and Matt are reading too much into events that are still fresh in your minds.

I don't see these recent criticisms as part of a larger discussion about the diretion or purpose of your blog, or a commentary on nature of effectiveness of your activism.

It seems to me that this is all a natural outgrowth of the increased readership of MyDD along with the fact that we are entering the primary season in earnest.

This reminds me of what was going on over at DKos in 2003 as folks began to solidfy their primary candidate favorites. It simply will not matter whether you, as the previous commenter suggested, spend some additional time fact-checking; as soon as you or any other front page poster writes something moderately critical of one group's favorite candidate, all hell is going to break loose in the comments.

That's just the way it is, and I don't think either you or Matt should spend any additional time worrying about this issue. You guys do great work and should be proud of it.


by taylormattd on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 05:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Maybe I didn't answer your question.  Responsible to the truth, to critical thinking, and to your own credibility.  I'm not arguing that you have a responsibility to the party, to any candidate or cause, to the Columbia School of Journalism's standards, or to me in particular.  I don't think you aren't concerned with the truth or your credibility (in fact you're well ahead of the MSM on that score), but you sometimes screw up.  As do we all.


by DaveMB on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:14:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 5)

It's going to be a long, difficult and turbulent turn away from the nurturing bosom of the Corporate Mammon. It's a cultural break as well as an economic one.

On the other hand, nobody said the road out of Babylon would be easy. Keep leaning on the rudder, man.


Me | My Work | Future Majority
by Josh Koenig on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:00:59 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Well put, Josh.

Nobody said culture wars were pretty.


by shep on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 05:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Did I say "culture" war?

Make that class war.


by shep on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 10:55:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

Apparently, I don't read the comments closely enough.  Personally, I really appreciate this blog, and how unions and labor are a part of the discussion here.  And people who have a long enough memory of what the DLC and "the big dog" did to working people and the base of the party to call them on it, not just now, but also then.  Some folks seem to think of Clinton as this great president- the fact that he was better than Bush doesn't make him great.  If you stop hitting yourself with a hammer, it may feel better, but that doesn't make it a positive experience.

Stoller: you, Bowers, Singer, and the whole crew on here do an awesome job.  Take a break if you need it, but keep it movin.


by Ruby K on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:05:35 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I think it is good to take breaks and refocus on things that matter.  There is always a better way to do things and to figure those things out you need time to think.

Personally I feel that occasionally the general progressive message is wrong.  Like how globalization hurts the middle class, but the problem isn't globalization.  The problem is a goverment that doesn't adequately help people directly.


by sterra on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:08:17 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 0)

" but the problem isn't globalization.  The problem is a goverment that doesn't adequately help people directly"

Well yeah actually yes it is the problem. Globalization,(the buzzword made up by the corperations to mask transnational takeover, social program removal(WTO, World Bank) and general subordination of democracy to "market force") is the on-rushing train of the supremecy of corporate power.


by inexile on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:43:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

I disagree with many of your posts, but I agree that we are each complicit in and responsible for what America does. I'm glad that is your philosophy, and gives me a bit more appreciation for what you do here.


by souvarine on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:08:22 PM EST

Matt... (none / 0)

...I love your writing, and I love that you unabashadly throw your entire person into it. In my opinion, you infuse passion and reason more successfully than almost any other prominent blogger on MyDD or Kos, and that in itself is inspiring to me. You don't let the cynics (or the cynycism) get to you.

At the same time, I was disappointed this morning when you posted that "Obama praised McCain" on breaking blue when he clearly said that he thought that though McCain was sincere, he was not being wise" in regards to Iraq. Thats clearly not a praise. You've been hard on Obama for a long time, and thats cool, but this was an unjustified attack, and I hate seeing that on this site, and on a person who could very well be our next presidential nominee.

That said, I also appreciate that you are willing to acknowledge candidates you don't support when they do the right thing on an issue.

Hope a few days away recharges your batteries, and theres a great band called Toubab Krewe playing at the State Theatre out in East Falls Church tonight that always helps  me loosen up - if youre' interested.
peace,
jw


by faithfull on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:11:39 PM EST

Re: Matt... (3.00 / 3)

Obama has an annoying habit of tossing in superfluous CW-reinforcing platitudes like "I don't doubt John McCain's sincerity on this issue." Well, perhaps he should.


by arbitropia on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:19:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matt... (none / 0)

"I don't doubt John McCain's sincerity on this issue, but I doubt his wisdom on it."  - Obama

Let's make sure that that quote is not taken completely out of context.


by maddogg on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How is Obama annoying? (3.00 / 2)

Obama proffers legitimate respect to a man that was a prisoner of war for @ 5 years.  Then he proceeds to inform us as to why McCain is wrong.  This is not "annoying"; it is a beautiful, subtle way of correcting the record.


by pamelabrown on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

This is an outstanding post, Matt. Thank you for writing it. And you are spot on in your thoughts and analysis, IMHO. Others above in comments are clearly showing the intense, heartfelt support both you and Chris have earned, so I won't belabor that fact.

It's always good to relax a bit when possible, so I support you in doing that. For a day or two.

Then we need you back here pronto to continue working to rebuild this nation, and our moral foundation at home and abroad.

Thanks so much for all you guys do. Onward!


by Sun Tzu on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:14:49 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 2)

I think this is a great post and says all sorts of things that need to be said again and again.  I would only add that I do think there's a small difference between someone like Tom Daschle, who for all his faults did do things like engineering Jim Jeffords' switch, and someone like Tom Delay.  Having made that qualifier, I would also say that I think that they're all complicit in the same oppressive system, only that Daschle's version is a bit kinder and gentler in certain, but only in certain, ways.  In the end, does that small difference make a difference?  I don't think so, but it presents a powerful illusion that it does.


by Aunt Martha on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:22:06 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

I appreciate your passion, and I do believe that you're coming from a good place when you take such a firm stance on some things that I disagree with. At the same time, understand the same things that you stated above about where you're coming from apply to many, if not most, of us who read and comment at MyDD every day.


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:24:55 PM EST

Matt (3.00 / 3)

You're writing is the reason why I come here.  I'll be sorry to see you take a few days off, but we all need a break.

BTW, isn't Dasle the one who wanted the Dems in the Senate to vote yes on the IRAQ authorization to "Get it behind us?"  I believe that most of our IRAQI problems start with him.


by lisadawn82 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:25:03 PM EST

Re: Matt (3.00 / 1)

Yes, he is.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matt (3.00 / 1)

Most start with Daschle?  Not, say Bush or Cheney or Rumsfeld or Wolfowitz or Perle or Kagan or the 60+% of the American public which supported the war when it started?  All of those factors and people combined account for less of the responsibility for the Iraq mess than Tom Daschle?

To be sure, he could have done something different, maybe rallied enough support to stop it.  Maybe.  

But this is an example of taking a structural problem and assigning responsibility for it to individual people.  Tom Daschle didn't create the political and social dynamic that made Democrats fearful of taking risks.  He was simply one Democrat who fell victim to it.  If it hadn't been him as the Majority Leader, it almost certainly would have been another person equally progressive in his personal politics but unwilling to take a stance on Iraq.

The point is that we need to stop blaming individuals as much and focus more on changing the conditions so that people like Tom Daschle feel empowered to act on their consciences.  


by Baldrick on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Leader (none / 0)

The point is that we need to stop blaming individuals as much and focus more on changing the conditions so that people like Tom Daschle feel empowered to act on their consciences.
 

I agree with where you are coming.  There was a lot of pressure to go along with what the President wanted.  But when you're the leader you're supposed to be able to make the hard calls.  

This issue of trying to go against groupthink, or the herd, or whatever you want to call it will always be there.  No one said that doing the right thing was easy.


by lisadawn82 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:26:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Leader (3.00 / 2)

Yes.  If the dem majority leader isn't where the buck stops on checking the president, I don't know where it is.  God, he had Bob Graham basically begging to be set loose and talk about the intelligence flaws, and Daschle shut him up, and lost the senate, the presidency, and his seat.  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (1.00 / 1)

Matt, we basically share the same political values & outlook but your diagnosis of the problem of the Democratic Party is based on a shallow analysis of its condition & how Daschle fits in.

The Democratic Party is presently what it is because of 2 dominating factors: 1) money controls the political process (which tilts the whole system toward the wealthy & corporations, both of which are conservative) because you seldom win elections without having your ads on TV thousands of times 2) the media, which is a corporate media, tilts toward the right & makes it tougher for
progressives to win.

The Democratic Party is super cautious given the working of these 2 forces. Our primary task as progressives should be to substantially weaken the role these 2 forces play; the result will be an environment & electorate more hospitable to progressive causes, which in turn will make the Democratic Party more progressive.

Another consideration is that the Democratic Party lacks cohesion because it is made of disparate factions with no institutional enforcers (organizations/groups with resources to punish & reward the bad behavior of elected Democrats) that keep Democrats in line. In this environment, Daschle functioned as Senate Majority leader & subseqently Minority Leader.

I know people that know Daschle intimately. He is super progressive in his beliefs, heir to former Senator McGovern from S. Dakota. He comes from a conservate state & had to watch what he says to get reelected. Daschle thus functioned as an inside player, one of the most skilled ones in the WWII period. Behind the scenes, he was very adroit in pushing the progressive agenda. With the Democratic Party as fragmented as it was & with 9-11 having a country united around Bush & the Repubs, he did as well as any Democrat in a leadership position under these circumstances.

Regarding ties with lobbyists, unfortunately any Majority/Minority Leader has such connections at present & lobbyists seek staffers from such powerful people. We, progressive, need to cut the umbilical cord by changing the rules of the game rather than chastising leaders who operate in this milieu.


by carter1 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:25:44 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Tom Daschle failed. As a Senate Leader, he didn't compromise as much as he just plain sold out. His compromises were so bad that he lost the Senate; and then he lost his own seat. While he was there and after he left, he didn't even have the moral spine to object to the krap he saw going on around him. Then he had the chutzpah to think he could run for President.

This reply isn't a troll or even a gripe: Just an honest summary of the man's entire last term in the Senate. We all paid a lot for the honor of having men like him represent us.  As wise as your comments are concerning money and the media -- these are the things you left out about Daschle, and these are the things that we cope with today.  

Daschle isn't alone. Clinton didn't triangulate as much as he just sold out to Republicans as soon as the door to the oval office was closed. Dozens of other highly placed nationally-known Democrats who should have been taking care of their constituents, did the same thing. There seems to have been a rather strong agreement among all of them to, well, sell us out for a few dried beans. They should be held to account, and I have to admit I am furious with most of them.

I see no reason why we can't reform campaign laws and the corporate media, AND hold sell-outs like Tom Daschle to account at the same time. It's all good.

b73


by blue73 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Some how in your lengthy post you neglected to mention how & when Daschle, who has a 20+ year history in Congress, sold out. S. Dakota is a very conservative state. One can vote 100% progressive as their rep but they'll never get reelected. I'd rather have a Democratic rep not vote progressive on some issues that would defeat them than have em replaced by some rabid RWer that would vote extreme RW all the time.

I'll infer you're referring to the Iraq war vote. At the time, Bush's media supported propaganda had the country all hopped up about attacking the moslems. All the Southern Democratic senators (except Graham) were going to vote for the war as well as most of the Democrats from border states. Daschle comes from a state that was stridently for the Iraq misadventure.

So, Daschle knew that there was no way the majority of Democratic senators were going to oppose it & the misadventure was wildly popular in his state. So, he figured out that the resolution would definitely pass the Senate & the best way to play it was to give the prez the authority on Iraq. I'm not happy about this but sometimes you have to realize you've been dealt a losing hand & you need to fold them.

P.S. Daschle was planning to run for prez but the Democratic Party convinced him to stay because he was more valuable as majority leader in the Senate. This was an act of unselfishness that very few elected reps do. Also, Daschle has worked behind the scenes in Congress innumerable times to push the progressive agenda.


by carter1 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 1)

Daschle being a moderate dem from a very conservative state is fine by me.  I'm not pissy with Ben Nelson right now.

My issue is and was with him being the majority leader and selling out the entire delegation on the Iraq war resolution and the Patriot act.  If he's perpetually in an unsafe seat, and can't vote with mainline dems on most issues, then he has no business being the leader of the party in the Senate.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:58:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 6)

This might be the best post that I've read on MyDD in a very long time.  Thank you Matt, and don't let some overly defensive commenters to scare you away.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:29:54 PM EST

Political Philosophy (3.00 / 4)

Matt,

I think you did a hell of a job articulating your overarching political philosophy with this post.  I don't agree with everything you said, but I respect both your passion and thoughtfulness.  I can say, without reservation, that you're doing a lot of good and that I hope you don't take too long of a break.

The only thing I'd add is that some of us out "here" who aren't political professionals like you are also care a great deal about the direction of both the country and our party, yet still arrive at different -- and sometimes very different -- policy conclusions than you do.  At times, it feels like you take those differences to mean that people like me aren't "real progressives."  That can be hard to take, precisely b/c folks like me care just as much as you do, even if we're not nearly as important to the movement.

At any rate, thanks for the post letting everyone know where you're coming from.  As usual, it's well written and thought provoking.


by HSTruman on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:33:01 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

Matt - I love your posts, the passion for democracy and the generational change I see here. Then I have dinner with my kids and they talk like you and I understand them better. There is no generation gap between my 30-something kids and me as there was (and still is) between my mom and me.

We could barely speak during the Vietnam war protests. Everyone I knew was having problems with their parents over war, patriotism, equal rights, women's lib, black power, free speech, nasty speech, and dissent. It was awful. I loved my mom but had to say what I believed was wrong about the country; she thought we were traitors.

Please don't rein in your posts at all. Our movement is a responsibility movement for us, as well as an accountability movement for leaders in government. OK, Howard Dean was right (again). We have the power - if we only knew it and would take responsiblity for it. Just voting isn't enough, so here we all are making our difference. No slack is needed here.


by mrobinsong on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:35:19 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 3)

I don't think I've ever commented here, but I've ben reading daily for years.  Matt, neither you or Chris need to change your rhetoric.  I've thought for a while that one of the main things that makes me a progressive is my belief that everything we do, good or bad, is partly my responsibility, and because of that it is our duty to always stand up for what we know is right, no matter how uncomfortable it is.  That your writing makes others uncomfortable is no reason to rethink your approach.  We don't need your silence, we need more of you.

Jason Pellett


by jpellett on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:37:48 PM EST

Stoller - Progressive Approach (3.00 / 2)

During the 2004 campaign I believed there was little that was more important than turning out Bush and turning out Republicans from power. At that time I had little tolerance for criticisms of Democrats because to me the overriding cause was that Republicans had to be removed from government. So personally, I felt the patriotic thing to do was to attack Republicans and support Democrats.

I still think that for the time that was correct. The same held in the 2006 elections. We absolutely had to put some Democrats in power whether they were blue dogs or progressives just to get some balance back in government. The quality of the Democrat mattered but it was only secondary to making sure a Democrat replaced a Republican. So personally, I gave alot of slack to Democrats and averted my eyes when they let me down. Was that moral? I don't know but I believe it's what had to be done to move our country in the right direction.

But now?

The Republicans no longer have absolute power and the quality of the Democratic candidate becomes more important. I don't want just any Senator. I don't want just any Representative. I don't want just any President. I want a patriotic progressive who doesn't show obeisance to the monied interests and kowtow to the aristocratic Washington insiders. Instead the moral and pragmatic way forward is to be committed to advancing progressive ideals. We've got to work to return our country to a state in which our constitution and laws are respected and brutality and corruption are rejected. Some Democrats are part of the problem and when any of them step out of line, now is the time to make them pay for stepping out of line.

So I support you Matt in that effort. I don't question your sincerity in the least. Of course I think you are wrong sometimes and sometimes I believe your writings are not productive. But I don't expect perfect from anyone and of course progressives won't always agree on what is the best course of action in a given situation. But I do agree with you that we've got to hold Democrats to account by making our voices heard. We've got to try to influence them before they act, praise them when they act in support of our vision and make them pay when they err. That's the way to improve our country and I appreciate the effort you put in on trying to realize our shared goals.


by Curt Matlock on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:38:12 PM EST

I think we need to be careful (none / 0)

Its important to push our candidates but we also have to be careful we don't shoot ourselves in the foot also.

The push for purity is great but at a certain point it can be destructive instead of being constructive. If we get purity in our nominee and then lose horribly in the general giving the country to a Bush clone for 4 or 8 more years, its disastrous.

Personally I'm pretty happy with most of our candidates. I'd rather push for perfection AFTER we get a democrat elected.


by okamichan13 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:39:01 PM EST

Re: I think we need to be careful (none / 0)

Pushing for "perfection" after the election is part of the problem, as Matt says. We all need to call on people to do the right thing every time. Clintons call for troops to stay in Iraq after the wars over (what the hell??!!??) is a good example. It's not OK. It needs to be pointed out. Sayin that we should press to get her elected then challenge her is just wrong headed.


by inexile on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not saying that (none / 0)

but there are some battles that should be fought and some that shouldn't. Doing the right thing every time acording to a small faction of the democratic party isn't going to help any of us in the long run. It might make us happy, but probably not for long.

There's a fine line here that each person has to think about. Am I helping our candidates become better candidates or am I just tearing them down to make them meet some impossible standard?

I'd like to think we've all learned a bit from the 2000 election. Does anyone really doubt that we would be in a better position now if Al Gore was president despite all his flaws?

Arguably Kucinich is the "purest" candidate now and look at how he's doing. Do we really want 3 more Kucinich's? That seems to be where the slippery slope leads.


by okamichan13 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (3.00 / 0)

I hate, hate, hate, HATE this argument.

If gore had run a consistently progressive campaign, he would have had a large enough margin in the popular vote to carry a couple more states and make Jeb's machinations irrelevant.  The Dems have done nothing but lose when they have compromised their values.  The Republicans learned long ago that they can win with mainline conservatives.  Can't we just try someone who's not trying to run toward the 'mushy middle'?  Just once?  If we do and it doesn't work, then maybe then this condescending bullshit might be tolerable.  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:53:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (3.00 / 0)

and I should also point out that the dems have done nothing but lose while running with this 'moderate' image.  They've done nothing but win when they've advocated a progressive message in plain language.  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:54:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (none / 0)

Remember Clinton? Anyone? The guy that we all supposedly hate now because he ran as a moderate?  The only Democrat president in my entire 25 years on the earth?  


by Baldrick on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 05:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (none / 0)

The guy who barely won in 1992 with a right-leaning third party candidate pulling twenty percent of the vote, a severely, severely embattled opponent with communication issues. Or the Clinton who won again in 1996 against the weakest republican candidate since Barry Goldwater?  That Clinton?  Yeah, I remember him.  I also remember the way he pissed away a large mandate in 1993 and proceeded to allow an insane Republican Congressional majority to move the country farther and farther to the right for eight years.  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 07:30:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (none / 0)

C'mon now.  Perot wasn't right leaning, he was an equal opportunity crazy and he took votes approximately evenly from both sides.  Moreover, Clinton beat the sitting president, something which has been done one other time since the Great Depression (two if you count Ford as the "sitting president").

Clinton "pissed away his mandate" pushing too hard, too quickly, and too poorly (I'm perfectly willing to admit the third if you'll acknowledge the first two were factors) for left-wing issues.  And Dole was only one of the weakest candidates because Clinton tore him apart.  Name someone else the GOP could have run who'd have beaten Clinton.

To be fair, he wasn't close to perfect, and I've been saying for years that the Democrats learned the wrong lesson from him.  Clinton showed that Democrats should capitalize on their strengths, but most Democrats took the lesson that you should run to the center.  Clinton could win elections that way because he was (and is) a remarkable politician who was able to sell that position.  No other Democrat since then has, but that doesn't mean the opposite strategy of simply running to the left on every issue is right either.


by Baldrick on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 09:13:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (none / 0)

For Perot, I have trouble believing that a Texas billionaire running primarily on the issue of government spending causing excessive deficits drew equally from the Dems and the Republicans.  I know that there were some exit polls that indicated that, but it doesn't really make any logical sense to me.

I'd agree with most of that.  It is quite grating that Clinton ended up caving on universal health care and on gays in the military but took a bold stand on NAFTA, but I guess you could argue that he learned his lesson from those first two debacles, and by the time NAFTA came up, he had a better idea about how to handle Washington politics.  He certainly respected Congress far more on NAFTA.

I'd like a good communicator over someone who's ideologically perfect.  In the absence of a talented politician, at least giving the voters a choice would be nice, is all that I"m saying.  And really, I've found MyDD comment threads far more hostile to someone saying anything, ANYTHING bad about Obama or Edwards than I've found it hostile to suggesting a pragmatic approach to politics.  The latter seems to me to be what Chris suggests quite often, on the Iraq war funding, for example.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 11:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you really want 8 more years of (none / 0)

a Bush clone for the sake of purity? I sure don't. Vote for Kucinich if you like, I want a democrat who wins.


by okamichan13 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 10:27:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you really want 8 more years of (none / 0)

what are you talking about?  You're offering up a false dichotomy.  Do you really want eight more years of another bush clone because the democrats decided to run Kerry/Gore clones over and over again?  Give me someone who can actually communicate, who can deliver a clear message that is actually different from the president's.  

But you might be right.  Perhaps the only way to win is with Ben Nelson.  We coudl probably start a Draft Lieberman movement.  I think he might have what it takes to communicate our message and finally win.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 11:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (none / 0)

We did. His name was George McGovern. He lost big-time against Nixon. NIXON! Do you think only Watergate made people hate Nixon? He was despised before that. And yet McGovern won only his home state, and I think Massachusetts, in 1972.

I'm with the folks who say we should not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.  The stakes are simply too high for us to indulge in that kind of thinking.


by gas28man on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 02:36:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nixon muscled every other candidate out of the '72 (none / 0)

campaign.  The Dems had all of their communicative candidates muscled out of ht erace through dirty tricks. And he was spying on McGovern through the whole campaign.  Using what may have perhaps been the dirtiest election in the history of American politics (aside from perhaps 1876) as your paradigmatic example is a bit troublesome.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 04:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not saying that (none / 0)

You're wrong about McGovern's home state. He lost SD. He only won MA and DC.

Sure, McGovern lost to Nixon. Nixon, who was running dirty tricks campaigns, whose people broke into the DNC offices, who had to resign from office along with his VP, whose AG went to jail -- along with a bunch of his staff -- yeah, McGovern lost to a guy who was running a dirty campaign. And when McGovern was telling people about that during the campaign, and talking about the kind of person Nixon was, nobody wanted to believe that the President of the United States -- tricky as he was -- would do such things. But he did. I hear Al Gore got screwed by people gaming the system in Florida in 2000, too.

People willing to use corrupt methods to win will always win, if society allows those methods to continue.

Additionally, McGovern lost because the old guard Democratic leadership decided they'd rather have Nixon to kick around for another four years than win the Presidency with McGovern. The Humphrey/Muskie/Jackson gang didn't want to turn over the party's reins of power to someone like McGovern, so they supported Nixon, instead. Then Scoop Jackson's staff turned all Republican and became the core of the neocon movement. Surprise!


by darrelplant on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 02:10:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 1)

Matt, just to comment as someone who has occasionally critiqued aspects of your writing...like many others, I definitely found myself nodding along to almost everything written here. As the very friend I mentioned in my comment (the one who lost his first attempt at elected office partly because of innuendo about some of his campaign contributors/family friends) said at a rally/walk-out on the day the Iraq war started, in response to previous speakers who had invoked the whole "not in my name" meme, the war WAS being launched in our names and we hadn't effectively prevented it, and we needed more than ever to start finding consensus to return America to its moorings and stop future wars of agression.

The key, I think, is working toward that consensus and being genuine about it, and realizing that doing so doesn't mean surrendering one's passions or principles. Its hard work and there is going to be lots of intra-party/intra-movement fighting of the sort that consistently dominated so long-- no sooner had my friend made his speech than the next speaker essentially turned him down. Tom Daschle and others like him might in one sense be epidemic of the systemic problems in Washington, but that's not nearly the whole picture and worth fighting with one another over (even while calling out the system and putitng pressure on those abetting it IS a worthy goal and one that must be pursued with a strong degree of clarity).

We're all passionate people here, and sometimes in that heat its simply easy to either lose focus, or seem to lose focus in others' eyes. The key is to realize we're all in this together and all ultimately responsible-- which does mean occasionally taking a deep breath and reflecting, and that goes for everyone, not just you or Chris.  It frankly goes for Tom Daschle and his reflecting on his role in things, and indeed I think it might even be productive to try and broach thatissue with him via Obama's campaign if possible.

But that's at least my perspective from experience as someone who was a progressive political activist in college just two years ago, is a student of American history, actively reads and occasionalyl comments in places like this, and works now full-time in the strange world inside the Beltway (for a non-profit). Enjoy your rest and reflection, and definitely look forward to what you come back with.


by sip1983 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:41:10 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Also just to make sure I'm perfectly clear-- I'm NOT in any way advocating a change in style or what not.  And moral clarity is definitely more important than failing to offend. The key is just to do so with a sense of perspective (which I know you definitely have a lot of) and striving for fairness/ultimate recognition that we're all in this together (or ought to be).


by sip1983 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:44:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I don't ever read the comments either so I'm not sure what mess was going down but I wanted to add my $.02.

1.) I loved this post.

2.) I appreciate the work that the people who post here do. This blog is the only one for which I read every single post all the way through.

3.) I'd rather have people getting upset and having this conversation with you, as opposed to them not caring at all. I'm all for active discussion, even if it's from people who you think may be doing the party/our country a disservice with their beliefs sometimes.

4.) I have faith that all people eventually come around to see truth if you keep putting it out there for them.


by jazzy on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:47:57 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 4)

MyDD increasingly feels like talking to Nader supporters in 2000.  There is a single acceptable line to take on a number of issues and if you do not take that line, you are far closer to the enemy than you are to a potential ally.  If you don't ruthlessly attack McCain you are praising him, or buying into the "right wing framing."  Everyone is constantly searching for the story of the day that will let them bash a candidate based on their impure "progressive" qualifications.

It's a fine line, because it's tremendously important to have places like this which fall outside mainstream politics and push things in a progressive direction.  But the more it feels like a Nader-fest the less interest I have in participating in such a forum, and I can't imagine I'm the only one.  I'm sure many people would love it that way, and they're welcome to their opinion - I'm just stating my impression.

The wonkiness is what makes MyDD great, not the ideology.  It's probably worth taking a breath every now and then to question what we're really demanding out of politics and what we can do to change things, not just complain about them.


by Baldrick on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:48:16 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 1)

What? In what way is there a similarity to nader? Matt and the rest are pointing out problems, whenever and however they can in the people trying to lead this coalition. Nader/Greens, for reasons perfectly apparent in the present day opted out of the coalition, to distrous effect.

The democrtatic party is women, blacks, lgbt's greens unionists, peace activists, progressives working to perfect the dream, while fighting like hell to repair the damage done by the other guys.

You call for policies that hurt the coalition, increase the damage of the continuing destruction of the media, or of the war, or of the environment or of our voting processes, well, then you get called out.

Do it too many times, and we all stop trusting you to lead the coalition.


by inexile on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 0)

This is inane.  Why do 'centrists' always spend more time complaining about the tone of progressives versus the actual content of their claims?  


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:30:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I am talking about content.  Good lord.  My point is that the content of "moderate" progressives should be included in the big tent of the Democratic party just as the content of the radical progressives should.

Both sides do themselves a disservice when they call those who have a different idea of the details the enemy.

I am concerned at the way MyDD increasingly feels like a place where people who all believe the same thing go to complain about the moderates and the center, where people who believe free trade might not be the worst thing ever are shouted at, where people who believe the Iraq war is a disaster but are not convinced a complete withdrawal is the best idea, who believe that universal health care is essential but are not sure a single payer system is the way to go, who believe that it's possible to occasionally say nice things about Republicans (especially if its used in close accompaniment with a slam) without that turning into a unilateral rhetorical disarmament.

And I'm sick of being called a 'centrist.'  I have incredibly radical ideas about what this country ought to look like, but I'm also a pragmatist when it comes to the question of how to best work toward that.  I worry sometimes about the netroots' ability to distinguish between pragmatism and selling out.  There is a difference, and it's a real and essential one, but it often feels like people don't want to accept that.


by Baldrick on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 05:54:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I would rebut that establishment democrats have repeatedly called anyone who professes anything even slightly to the left of Bill Clinton and Tom Daschle to be impractically far to the left, and doomed to alienate the American public.  This has gone on endlessly as the country has drifted farther and farther to the right without so much as a rebuttal.  What is so wrong about pushing for someone who would move the country forward and lead, rather than another Clinton-type who, at best, would be a caretaker, keeping things from getting any worse?

Making the argument that Clinton was better than Bush and that Gore would have also been better than bush really isn't much of an argument for either.  The Republicans get candidates that they really believe in.  Why can't we run someone we really believe in, rather than trying to predict what the 'mushy middle' will want?  Can't we try that just once?  Because we really haven't since RFK was shot.

And I have a feeling that RFK would have beaten the hell out of Nixon.


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 07:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt-
This is a wonderful post on so many levels. While I may not agree with you from time to time, I've never doubted that your heart and soul were in the right places. This post sheds much light on your overarching philosophy and aligns with my own thoughts and beliefs about politics and citizenship.

Maybe because I came of age in Republican politics, I have no illusions about niceness. And I think the sooner that progressives and Democrats let go of this notion, the better. That does not mean that we can't disagree without being disagreeable. And I think that a good lot of the critical comments towards you and Chris over the past several days have been just that. However much I might agree with some of the points those folks have made, I do not support the means used.

That being said, I do think time away to recharge and reflect is always a good thing. Such sabbaticals have always been useful tonics for me. I hope that your time away is restful and fulfilling!


by muscleheadblog on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:49:31 PM EST

A simple thanks... (none / 0)

...for all your hard work.

peace,
jw


by faithfull on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:49:59 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I read MyDD everyday, but comment seldom if ever.  Occassionally I disagree with posts, but like Matt & Chris I do not choose to be a blind Dem ever again.  This part of Matt's post is how my political involvement has progressed in the years since 2000, when I discovered the power of the web and blogs.

"I consider it immoral to let the charade of dishonesty that pervades our insider culture to continue.  I have cut these people slack and regretted it because I became more complicit than I already am.  After watching and engaging in the last few years of politics, I no longer feel the need to prove that DC politicians and insiders ought to be treated skeptically.  This isn't to say that I'm reflexively anti-Democrat, just that Democratic leaders should prove themselves.  Speaker Pelosi has done this.  Russ Feingold has done this as well.  Schumer and Obama have done this in some ways, but not others.  TV is a very powerful enemy in this regard, in that it venerates the powerful and constantly impresses upon us fictions and myths about America.  One of these myths is that discomfort is a bad thing, another one is that it is the duty of Americans to support their country and its leadership in all its actions.  I don't believe these myths anymore.  For me, discomfort in the pursuit of justice is a small price to pay, and dissent isn't just patriotic, it's practical."

Thanks,
Julie


by OhioDem on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 01:58:13 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

That paragraph should be adopted as the progressive bloggers code of conduct.


by maddogg on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:02:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)


Matt & Chris,

Both of you are far too hard on yourselves.  As to the 'criticism', it's generally meant to be 'fair' if it's understood that the criticism is reflecting a particularized "self-interest".  And with that in mind, let me suggest the following:

Since I am from the Sonoran Desert, I conveniently opt for the mantra of the "Status Quo Bias".  Put simply, knowing that all of us speak out of self-interest when it comes to Thought and Action, we should not be disheartened when disagreement surfaces.  The real question is of a legitimate disagreement that drives us apart in our approach to politics.

Take,for example, immigration is a primary feature in local and statewide politics in Arizona.  Thus, Flake (R)of Arizona and Gutierrez D) of Illinois have crafted a 700-page monster on immigration reform.  Immigration will never be effectively reformed until well after 2008, and so, I continuously ask myself, "Is Gutierrez just another Republican 'enabler'?"  And has Senator Kennedy been 'enabling' Senator McCain?

Now, I am a self-identified "aggressive" Moderate and I do have much in common with the Progressive, and yet, I admire both you--Matt and Chris--for bringing forward much common sense with respect to the myriad issues that confront us on a daily basis.

In closing, let me recite an experience of the the 1980's of the Reagan Era.  One afternoon, Reagan too his afternoon sieta and his NSC policy wonks crafted a study in which the Spanish-speaking folks had a high propensity for becoming "fifth columnists" and which to my way of thinking is treason.  And yet, I am Spanish-speaking person a I am also a Chicano military veteran for having served in the Vietnam War.  I mention this experience to express my optimism with regard to the younger generation, and not to express any bitterness for being libeled and slandered as a "fifth columnist".  

And yet, I attribute my long history for political partication and engagement to my appreciation to and for Common Sense.  And when we fail to utilize our Common Sense, we as a nation will become easily manipulated out of our jock strap as per the Invasion of the Wrong Country, i,e, no Declaration of War but the easy use of a Weasel Clause.

And as a Demcrat, our Elected and Appointed Officials should be recognized for doing the right thing, and equally important, highly criticized for their wrongness with the expectation that they won't make the same mistake twice.

In summary, to those of you who are the managers and to the 'grunts' who work behind the curtain here at Mydd, keep up the good work.  Andas always, my Thanks!

Jaango


by Jaango on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:05:27 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Another slam dunk post, Matt. Keep up the great work!

BTW, if there's a I Couldn't Stand Tom Daschle And Was Delighted To See That Spineless, Canned, Scripted Dude Lose club, where do I sign up?

God, he was dreadful. We're so much better off without him.


by midwestmeg on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:07:51 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Great post Matt.


by inexile on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:07:52 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 1)

Keep blogging.


by Jerome Armstrong on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:09:42 PM EST

Perfect. (none / 0)

I think your criticisms are right on.

Something I figured out a while back is that bad politicians say "trust me." Good politicans say "watch me."


by Sadie Baker on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:12:19 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

One more thing.....

Matt writes:"And now I'm going to take a break from MyDD for a few days so I can think about your criticisms some more...."

Well, taking a break is always a good idea, especially someone who works as hard as you do. Get outside. Go for a bike ride. Hang out with pals. Eat a good meal.

But then come back!

And don't change much!  You're doing great work and you have a ton of fans!


by midwestmeg on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:12:55 PM EST

One of the things (3.00 / 2)

That will often bug people about Beltway insiders is they talk down to the rest of us in a way that conveys a certainty bordering on a definitive absolute.

It's clear to me that bloggers are traffic in the same way of discourse.  Maybe it's reactive or just force of habit.  I suspect that punditry -- inside or outside DC -- can't exist without the goal of not just arguing for a position, but totally eradicating the opposite position with extreme prejudice.

There are criticisms of NAFTA, and Clinton.  That he allowed it to pass without stronger enforcement of environment standards on other countries is regrettable, and something I don't think either bill or hillary would allow happen again (she voted against cafta).

Yes.  There are criticisms.  

What forces me to respond as if there are no criticisms is accusations like this:  Clinton and Carter sold out the middle class.  It's rhetoric to me, and means very little, not to mention, I think it is a patently false accusation to make.  It fundamentally mis-represents Clinton's and Carter's concerns.

NAFTA, like anything else, is a framework by which a lot of other decisions can be made.  To think environmental protections as well as a heavy tax burden for companies that send jobs overseas are PROHIBITED by NAFTA is wrong.

So when the rhetoric gets cranked up to 10 on a blog, i genuinely do feel that people lose sight of the fact that:

NAFTA + Clinton or Gore

would have been lot less hurtful to America and the environment than

NAFTA + Bush

When Democrats run campaigns, when they speak out they can do one of two things:

1. They may make statements denouncing the ideas and policies that have hurt america.  they can attack republicans.  they may also, as russ feingold often does (though he is not campaigning I know that), attack other democrats for not doing enough to stop republicans from enacting those policies.  this is now the edwards campaign.  if you're not for this and that, and speaking out the way he now does, there's a real accusation of betrayal being made by him about other democrats.  and bloggers now love him.

2.  they may isolate problem areas in those policies that need to be fixed, and offer suggestions as to how they can be fixed to help america.  

before i go further, it should be obvious that these two things are not mutually exclusive, all politicians do a little or a lot of both, some lean towards no. 1 above, some towards no. 2, but no one politician that leans towards one is totally incapable of the other.  Edwards does offer some real solutions too!  i know that!

the first one appears to me to be driven by ideology.  the policy itself, the idea itself is rotten to the root, and a field burning once the ideas are dug up and killed is often a good idea.

the second one appears to me to be focussed on implementation.  in kerry/edwards '04, kerry suggested big tax breaks for companies that keep jobs in america, and big tax hikes for companies that send jobs overseas.  this gets little traction on blogs and elsewhere as far as i can tell.  blogs want the idea of globalization dead.  killed.  for them or, in this case against them, people are inspired by ideas.  

living with it, suggesting a solution isn't criticized, so much.  it's just not what drives the passion behind political rhetoric.

one might be right to point out how no. 2 above is a failed election strategy.

what drives me personally crazy, and i think blogs suffer greatly because of it (that is unless they're happy right where they are with the same readers year in and year out, if so, no problem.), and i think blogs that intend to help democrats end up hurting democrats, is this tendency to take a candidate or a dem who does too much of number 2 above and then make accusations about them.

if you think NAFTA can be fixed, you're just for fucking over more of the middle class and can't admit it.

that kind of crap.

now obviously, the one topic that illustrates this division perfectly is the iraq war.

the mere suggestion that what we see in iraq right now is the result of execution, not an idea, is verboten.

and in some ways i can understand why it has to be that way.  if the only thing you learn from iraq is that it was executed badly, then you're open to commiting the same crimes yet again sometime in the near or far future.

well.  then from another point of view, you then tend to shut off the possibility of intervening in any country ever again.

how do we preserve a maximum set of options without repeating mistakes?

fair question, i think.


by Stewieeeee on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:16:30 PM EST

Re: One of the things (none / 0)

the idea that Bush chould have been trusted to execute the war was pretty much fundamentally flawed.  It was well known that he had no pre-war plan, that he was waaaay overselling the war, and that Iraq would dissolve into three warring factions.  Anyone who voted for the Iraq war resolution was either very calculating and cynical or delusional.  

I have yet to see any "solution" to Iraq that addresses any of the fundamental problems in the ground.  All of the 'implementation' suggestions seem to just involve throwing troops at the problem and hoping that it will go away.  The reality is that the Iraqi government is controlled by the Shi'ites and will continue to be in the future.  Unless a strongly federal Constitution is imposed on the country, this will always be the case, and the Sunnis will always feel oppressed.  I have not seen anyone suggest something that deals with any of this, except for those arguing for withdrawal.  So why should I take the other camp seriously?


"You say the world has lost it's love I say embrace what it's made of" -Dar Williams
by Valatan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:39:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Thanks for the post Matt - very thought provoking.


by joesaho on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:21:52 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (3.00 / 0)

I have been a casual observer of this blog but, for some time now, have refused to set up an account but rather chose to sit back and read the thoughts of others. However, in light of Matt's post and thread, I can no longer do that.

I first got interested in politics as a high school senior when Dean was making his historic run for the Democratic nomination. I was energized, drove to NH on the weekends all the way from CT, and felt like I was really a part of something I believed in and a part of someone (Dean)who believed in what I did. Since then, after three years of college and active study and participation of American politics, I cannot help but feel that expieriences like that are few and far between and that American politics is usually just one big let down.

Like Matt said, I too take politics very personally. When one of my senators, Joe Lieberman, makes a apologetic defense of the war, I am not only enraged but sad to be from a state that re-elected him last year. When the leaders within our own party buckle to the "man" if we can call it that, I feel sold out. When I see presidential candidates being blindly followed simply based on charisma (or, in other words, on the basis of their sex or race), I can't help but feel like something is going wrong. On one hand people post on blogs that they despise the war and all that the Republicans are doing and then come out in support of candidates who are some of the greatest apologists within our party.

I love America and the Democratic Party but, like many, I cannot help but feel that there is something radically wrong with both of them that is spinning out of control simply because, while many people in both camps feel more than comfortable blaming others for the failures around them, they cannot stand to look in a mirror and blame themselves for the mistakes and failures of both their country and their party.

Something needs to change and we need more leaders and voices like Matt to represent this view, for if we do not seriously address issues that he so frequently does, we are going to run the risk of setting sail towards a very dark day when the entire party, not just the majority of it, lives in a state of denial equal to that of our Republican friends. Every time I see a Joe Lieberman defend this war, every time I see Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton winning in the polls for the wrong reasons, every time our party checks its balls at the Senate and House chamber door, I lose a part of the spirit that brought me into this fight acouple years ago. I want to spend my life doing this but I'm not sure how much "life" will be left if this cycle continues much longer. Wake up, people...


by scanman1722 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:31:08 PM EST

Thanks (none / 0)

Thanks Matt. I don't agree with all of your posts, but I love reading them. Keep at it.

My only general complaint about your posts is that you tend to dismiss politicians / media figures / people in general as soon as they say something wrong. One mis-statement, one disagreement on policy, and you've taken them off your speed dial. While I applaud your purist attitude, I fear that it will leave you with an empty speed dial.


The truth about McCain
by nstrauss on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:33:12 PM EST

Re: Thanks (none / 0)

Just a clarification: I didn't mean this in direct response to your criticism of Daschle. This was just a general comment.


The truth about McCain
by nstrauss on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Great post Matt. Keep posting. I believe a lot of the passion in comments is a reflection of how strongly we feel about what is happening at MyDD. This is truly where progressives are learning to stand up and fight again. If we didn't care, I doubt so many of us would have spent hours discussing how our embassy should be protected or the distinction between combat and non combat troops. But this is a great thing. I believe the dynamic is truly is not left versus right, but people versus the establishment. This is our country, right or wrong, and the Dem candidate will be our candidate, and we must do our best to let our candidates know how we feel and where we stand. We've made concessions in the past to the establishment and we got burned. I have a feeling we won't get fooled again... and MyDD plays a big part it that.

Keep on rocking (and posting) in the free world...


by Benstrader on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 02:43:49 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt, you are an excellent investigator, thinker, journalist, and essayist. I really appreciate your clear thinking, your progressive politics, your passion, and your posts -- I always learn something from them, they are always worth reading. Occasionally, I disagree with your perspective or think you are overstating a case. But I find that stimulating and interesting, not offensive. I see you learn from useful corrections and criticism and ignore lousy criticism, which is exactly what you should do.

Keep fighting the good fight and don't get discouraged by criticism. You are doing an excellent job. You are teaching and leading -- exactly what we need.

And Chris and Jonathan do a great job too, btw.


by RandomNonviolence on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:11:25 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt's good on C-SPAN, too. I've nominated him elsewhere for a "progressive talking head" to replace all those awful so-called Democrats and liberals on TV.


by joyful alternative on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 12:38:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt, I am one of the "silent majority" that someone in the early comments mentioned that is wholeheartedly supportive of your work even if I don't always agree with you and Chris 100% of the time.

This, in particular though, was excellent:

"We are encouraged to wallow in the fat of the 1990s, and forget about how Clinton (and Carter) sold out the working class with NAFTA, and how we let him. The messages encouraging us to defend these actions and forget about the larger overall picture are strong, very strong, because the interests behind them are wealthy and powerful beyond belief. These interests create suburbs to buffer us from realities we'd rather not see, and pleasing images on TV to create a cocoon of geniality. They produce large amounts of legal drugs while telling us drugs are bad when bad people take them.  They justify murder and secrecy with the incoherent notion of 'national security'. We must resist these interests, because that's what a realignment in politics really means."

That's why I call myself a progressive and not a liberal. Keep up the good work.


by the wanderer on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:14:29 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

I agree as activists we should speak up to party leaders and hold them accountable to do what's right.

I think what might be rubbing people the wrong way is the moral imperativeness of the posts which suggest that the leaders (like Daschle) are inherently bad people/citizens/Democrats.  Reality is much more gray.  Some of these leaders truly believe in progressive causes but have a different idea than you/us on the best way of reaching those goals.  It's proper to tell those people their means are incorrect but it starts to upset people (and becomes unproductive) when one questions someone's integrity.

Don't stop blogging, but it could never hurt to think about some of these opinions.  Also, I sense that there are posters above me that have a longer history that are coloring some of the reactions to their opinions.  I post/comment very rarely here but read all the front page opinions so this is coming from that (what I think is) neutral perspective.

I would also say I think these types of posts and comments become more frequent during the Presidential primary season when we're forced to take sides in ways we usually don't and don't have to because we all share much in common.  I would just urge a general understanding of this and for commenters and posters to think about it when choosing words.


by kickingdonkey on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:26:05 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt:

You serve an incredibly valuable role in the discourse of the Democratic Party and political discourse as a whole.  You are exactly right when you say that the manner in which you pursue what is right doesn't necessarily have to make everyone comfortable.  Change doesn't happen easily and it takes people that are willing to take chances.

I admire your writing style very much.  You're honest and direct.  Some people take that for attacks or rudeness.  If I ever ask you "who are you pissing off today?", then take it as a badge of honor.  I mean it as a compliment because if you're making people angry or uncomfortable, then you're doing something right.

We all make mistakes and grow from those mistakes as well as other valuable discussions that happen all the time.  Keep up the great work of creating an environment where this happens constantly.

We both know that doing the right thing isn't always rewarded in politics or the Democratic Party.  That shouldn't keep us from doing the right thing.  Ever.

Lane


Lane Hudson
by tlanehudson on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:37:44 PM EST

On Conflict (3.00 / 2)

I hit you pretty hard over the past two days (I'm sure that you would have hit back just as hard or harder if you would have read what I said) but I want to make a few things clear.  I LOVE that you are reminding people to put their values before anything else.  What is the point of having a party if it does not promote these values?  Why back a candidate if they do not promote these values?  Your goal is making out country more progressive, you are unflinching in that goal and for that you are very important to the progressive movement.  I LOVE what you said about NAFTA and the war (in general) and how you don't buy the B.S. that running to the "center" works.

We need more voices like you who refuse to compromise.  The war (and how our country looks at foreign policy and fails to see the worth of all human life) is THE MOST CRITICIAL ISSUE of our time and I would much rather argue with you over whether a candidate was backing a total end to the war or not than argue with Will Marshall style DLC hacks who cannot shut up about being "responsible" (AKA selling out) and "bipartisan" (AKA selling out).  I think that you have a pretty good gauge of when Democrats are selling out, and you are RIGHT ON about Daschle.  On this one there is less of a debate because the recent history ties it all together.  Your voice is instrumental.  No B.S.

I don't know your work or this blog half as well as most but for THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DO NOT CONSIDER DIFFERING YOUR APPROACH.  I would rather clash with your views on Edwards and his foreign policy than lose your voice on the future of the party, the progressive movement and the country in the first place.  I doubt you would ever consider doing this, but it should be clear that this is not what anyone wants.  We all say stupid things in the heat of passion (I know you never said that you said anything "stupid" I'm talking generally) and we always will.  I think most of us would rather have an army of "raging progressives" who go at each other every now and then, then have everyone calm down and buy into koombaya style "consensus" that simply isn't going to happen unless we want to give up on everything that is critical.

You made a great point that we cannot be blind about the candidates we support.  They all make mistakes, none is perfect.  If we could blend Obama's early opposition to the war with Edwards' economic populism, determination, and substance with Richardson's credentials and Al Gore's foresight then we would come close (I was going to add  Hillary Clinton's money until I realized how she gets that money so I quickly knocked some sense into myself).  I truly beleive that nominating John Edwards is critical to building a more united and organized progressive movement that will stand up and effectively and forcefully communicate progressive values.  However this is about a lot more than John Edwards.  One of the reasons why I am so proud of his campaign is because he makes the campaign about the party's future and the country's future not himslef (Hillary) or his personality (Obama).  We must think long term and that means past the (insert your candidat here) campaign.  2008 could be a serious turning point for progressives.  Bu it won't be what we need it to be if it becomes about a candidate when it needs to be about standing up for what we believe in.  Even John Edwards (who is the least affected by consultants, writes his own remarks which means he writes the order in which he will speak about them and then says what he believes, and is the only serious Dem with no support on K Street and is not working to change that, as well as not being liked bu the party elite which tells you a lot of good things) will let us down at some point.  This has to be about what we can do, not what a candidate can do for us (though having a president on our side is crucial).

All I would ask of Matt Stoeller (I doubt he cares what I think) is that he re-evaluate when candidates have proved themselves.  Edwards' remarks at the Herzliya conference come off like he poured it on too thick when he shouldn't have poured it on at all if you haven't read his past and subsequent comments and the comments of Gore, Obama, and Clark on the same issue (althouth everyone pandering to AIPAC style groups is not an excuse for somebody else pandering to AIPAC styly groups).  I think that he has been way too hard on Edwards, especially about what constituents an end to the war.  If he sells out hit him hard for it but if all things considered he is still leading on the issues and being the most progressive, substantive candidate running a campaign based on reclaiming our party and then our country (and make no mistake we MUST reclaim the party or we stand no chance of effecting the debate in the country the way we need to)then  it would be nice if from time to time it could be mentioned that he is still showing more leadership than the rest of the field.  We cannot settle for "everyone is wrong so nobody is wrong" but 2008 will be here sooner than most think and I think that the progressive needs to get behind him not.  For every rung we go down the later, to Obama to Richardson and on and on the options get worse and worse unitl we get to Clinton and a severe blow to the future of the party.

Don't give candidates a pass but if you could consider giving them more credit when they earn it it would be nice.

Of course if the first sentence you write when you come back is "Screw John Edwards and his crappy Iran position" it will be much better than if you would have stayed away for a prolonged period of time. It is important to speak truth to power.  To party's, to candidates, to movement leaders, to ourselves and to bloggers.          


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 03:41:00 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt,

This is one of the best posts I've read.  All I can say is "Amen Brother!"  

This is exactly why I "woke up" and decided that enough was enough, that if I didn't get involved, things would just get worse, and that, yes, if things did get worse this would be my fault.

Seems there's several million more out there exactly like me.  

How many will it take to get this mess straightened up and on the right track?  Only one . . . me.  And my friends, of course, those several million more who's also said enough is enough.

In this regard Bush and the rest of the Republicans have actually done America a huge favor.  Things have gotten SO BAD that many in the general population are, perhaps for the first time, starting to wake up and take notice.  This is a good thing.


by Keithb7862 on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 04:25:18 PM EST

Matt (none / 0)

Here's one longtime reader who hasn't said a damned thing about your recent posts because I've been too busy nodding in thrilled agreement.


ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future
by Nonpartisan on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 06:14:06 PM EST

Re: Matt (3.00 / 1)

Me as well. Maybe I should be more vocal in my agreements with Stoller.


by eugene on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 06:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

FWIW, the violent imagery that started off the post really turned me off, so I didn't even read the whole post.  


end the occupation of Iraq
by aip on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 06:27:28 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

One of the problems we face in creating a new progressive politics is navigating between two powerful forces that we don't want to get sucked into.

The first is the idea that we must defend any and all Democrats, no matter what their failures are. This is a deeply conservative view, in personality but also politically, for it holds that the US is a fundamentally right-wing nation and that we have to make major compromises on our values to survive it. Those who take this view do not seek to change that underlying politics, or even question whether or not that assumption is true (and it is not). To them, then, any criticism of Democrats is a problem because we are weak and criticism creates more weakness.

The second is the reaction against this on the blogs, from some who are uninterested in building a movement. They see this "yay Democrats!" approach and see not error and foolishness but complicity and conspiracy. And in reacting against the excusal of Democratic failure, these folks go off the rails themselves. They become equally intolerant of other views and would rather destroy the blogosphere than find a path out.

What a site like MyDD must do is avoid being uncritical without becoming lunatic in adopting a more critical stance. Yes, we must work within the Democratic Party, but not as it stands now - "work within the party" inherently means "reform the party in a more progressive direction."

Elected Democrats are tasked with what may be the most important jobs in the nation, especially given our present crisis. In that case, we CANNOT accept any failures. Daschle failed his country when it needed him, and it is not an attack on his character to point that out. We achieve nothing by excusing failure. We aren't the Bush Administration; Democrats do not get to fail upward.

I'd also add that the "defend Democrats" view is very closely linked to the DLC attack on the left. Since many of the attacks on Democratic failures from from progressives or the left, those who see the left as the cause of Democratic failure believe they must defend against that criticism, no matter how much truth it holds, because to admit the criticism is to admit the left is sometimes correct.

Matt, you are awesome. Don't let the bastards grind you down. You are doing the right kind of work and doing it in the right way. We must expect a LOT out of Democrats, and if they aren't up to doing their jobs properly, we will find someone who is.


by eugene on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 06:28:46 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

you guys are too hard on yourself, you're doing fine.  many of my friends read MyDD but haven't registered to comment, and they all love the rhetoric that is often employed.  it's nice to be able to read someone who shares the same views on what needs to be done with the democratic party.

i think a lot of the tension just comes from people feeling too emotionally attached to the presidential candidates that they support.


Check out my blog, Capital Viewpoint
by whogotthegravy on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 07:45:36 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

It's funny how people who make a living slamming others can't take a little criticism of their work. Thank God the people you eviscerate daily aren't as sissyfied as you are. "Boo-hoo, someone was mean to me so I'm going off to hide under a rock for a few days." Grow some balls, son. Any sucker can throw a punch; the difference between a champ and a bum is the courage to take a punch and keep moving forward.  


by KGrande on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 08:20:05 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Wow, I didn't know that the coach from the early Rocky movies posted on MyDD.  Cool.  Hey, I thought you died in one of the first sequels.  

You know, all of this conflict is not needed.  We all need to to hug and get along and build consensus and water ourselves down and blah blah blah fluff blah "hope" blah blah "small politics blah. We MUST remember that we are all...

(sings) Living in America...HEY!....Living in America...New York City!

Yo KGrande I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!


She just can't win.
by Progressive Populist 4 Edwards on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 10:31:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Matt - I like many of your posts and find them very thought provoking.  My major criticism is sometimes you go over the top such as an "enemies list" which has serious meaning to people who were of age during Watergate.  

You also have a tendancy toward guilt by association especially with Obama whom you seem to have a love/hate relationship.  Smart people seek input from many people, some of them you may not like, and use the information that can be helpful.  It's better than the opposite which is our incurious President who knows what he knows and doesn't want to hear anything else.  

My advice would be to focus less on who is hanging with who and more on actions/positions taken.  That's what really matters.


by John Mills on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 10:37:32 PM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

Tell me who a person's friends are, and I will tell you who that person is.


by Ian Welsh on Thu Apr 12, 2007 at 11:38:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You Are Wrong (none / 0)

That is totally judgemental and completely false.  You should judge people for who they are and how they act not who their friends are.

People are friends for all sorts of reasons - their kids go to school together, they went to school together, they work together, they enjoy the same activities, they are neighbors, they find the person amusing/interesting.  I used to live and work in DC and I understand the mentality you laid out and it is a major reason why I no longer live there.  

There are a lot of people in politics who tend to believe that if you consort with anyone who has opposing views you are evil and selling out.  It is dangerous to live in a vacuum/echo chamber.  Our President does it and look where it has gotten us.

I am not ashamed to admit I have Repub friends - we go to baseball games and do other activities together.  We also talk politics sometimes and while they don't change my mind I learn a ton about how the otherside thinks.  You should try it some time.


by John Mills on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 12:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

For the last week or two, I haven't been reading the comments, which have been taken over by irrational cheerleading for one candidate or another expressed mainly by attacks on the other candidates.

I haven't made up my mind yet to the extent of signing up for any candidate's blog or contributing money, and I could at this point campaign (with more enthusiasm than I could dredge up for John Kerry in 2004) for any of the current Democratic contenders against any Republican. In the comments, Hillary is treated as if she had Dick Cheney's politics and personality. She has a lot of good qualities, and she's tough and doesn't whine. That said, I'd prefer Edwards or Obama because I'd have a better chance of getting the future I value, with a pacific foreign policy and universal, single-payer health insurance.

But I find myself starting to turn against Edwards because he has so many supporters who are so hostile toward Obama, Clinton, and every one else and so eager to attack. So I'll stay away from the comments, at least until I make up my own mind on the candidates' merits and maybe until the primaries are over. The belligerance is offputting.

That said, I'll keep reading the posts, which are often inspiring (and I often need inspiration and motivation to keep trying to be an active grassroot and going to local party meetings and planting yardsigns and writing letters to the editor and all that stuff) and at least thought-provoking.


by joyful alternative on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 01:15:41 AM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

For the last week or two, I haven't been reading the comments, which have been taken over by irrational cheerleading for one candidate or another expressed mainly by attacks on the other candidates. - joyful alternative

Wearying, isn't it? Only 20 months to go so get comfy.

For me, discomfort in the pursuit of justice is a small price to pay, and dissent isn't just patriotic, it's practical. - Matt Stoller

You & Chris & company, you just keep doing what you've been doing. You are part of an evolution on two fronts - the political culture, and public discourse. For my own personal experience, this site has been a catalyst. Of course I don't agree with everything you write - I have an opinion just like you do! But your name is on the masthead, you put the effort into it, consequently you own it. If you ever get an inkling of how much positive change you've brought to this force-movement-culture-whatever, you'll be stunned and amazed as I am.

"Lean into the rudder, man" wrote an earlier commenter. Excellent advice, I say. It's easy to sit out here, safe at my little keyboard, and throw stones at you because you have the cajones to do what you do. I say, screw 'em if they piss you off, ban 'em if you like, ignore 'em if the words aren't useful to you. It's your house, we'll go by your rules.

A good criticism has a gift for you in its hands, and you'll find those gifts at your own discretion. But please please please don't let shrill, nasty voices silence your own. Get away when you need to, everyone has to take a day or a week or a month off. But don't let the stones hit you where you live.

-GFO


by GuyFromOhio on Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 08:41:59 AM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= -7333556703536657423&q=chomsky&h l=en


We are all aware that right at this moment bodies are being torn to shreds by infernal weapons -- unknown number of people who have already been driven to the edge of survival by decades of murderous sanctions... that may be facing starvation and slow death. Under these circumstances it is not easy to step back and ask why all this is happening, where it is likely to go and what we can do to shape the future, but that's what I want to try to do. About the last question -- what we can do to shape the future -- the answer is straightforward. Quite a lot. In fact there is noone anywhere else who can do as much as we can. We are uniquely privileged. We have unusual freedom that's not a gift from on high; its a legacy that was won by centuries of constant dedicated struggle, and that's really the answer to what we can do. Pay attention to the legacy and carry it forward. Privilege and advantages confer responsibilities. That should be a truism. What comes next is hard though. Personal choices. One choice is to face the responsibility. Not easy, though a lot easier than it is in other countries, other places not as privileged as we are. The other choice is to shirk the responsibility and hand the future over to forces that we can be sure are not benign. Many people in world are desperately hoping that we will make the first choice: face the responsibility; and they view with dread the consequences if we do not; if we do not act to control what they see as a juggernaut that they regard as the greatest threat to peace in the
world and these days threat to peace means literally threat to survival.

That's Noam Chomsky. And he said it all without having to bad-mouth people on his own side. But it's not about "niceness" or "meanness". It's about the truth, honesty and solidarity.


by ravi on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 12:34:35 AM EST

Re: On Cutting Slack (none / 0)

very well said.

and what's more - i think you really do try to live it, and usually suceed... not an easy thing.

that is one reason i gave you such a hard time about defending moveon's "poll" wrt the house vote on supplemental funding for the iraq occupation.

...

p.s. you work awfully hard for someone on a break.  please take care of yourself... this is a marathon - not a sprint.


by selise on Sat Apr 14, 2007 at 03:24:35 PM EST


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