Moveon Townhall

I'm listening to the townhall at Moveon's site.  Obama's on talking about Iraq.  The question was how he could get us out as quickly as possible.  His plan gets all combat troops out in March, 2008.  Also, Obama has definitely reframed his discussion of the post-veto strategy.  Good.  

I liked this line.

"The idea that the situation in Iraq is improving because it takes a security detail of 100 soldiers, three Black Hawk helicopters and a couple of Apache gunships to walk through a market in the middle of Baghdad is simply not credible and not reflective of the facts on the ground."



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Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

Yeah, that was a nice line.

I posted as series of short diaries to act as threads for reactions to each of the 7 candidates who spoke.  They're lined up in the 'diaries' section right now, if folks want to comment on specific things they heard or impressions of the candidates


by James Gatz on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:38:58 PM EST

Clinton's Iraq bill (none / 0)

I was listening to Hilary and she said that she had a bill which would require withdrawal to begin in 90 days, which she said she had been pushing for the past 2 years. Did anyone else hear this? I could be wrong, but I believe this is what she said, and I find it hard to believe. Did I mishear her?

Thought the town hall was great.


by Benstrader on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:40:19 PM EST

Re: Clinton's Iraq bill (none / 0)

The 2 years claim was a doozy!!


Visit DebateScoop
by demondeac on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:45:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

factcheck.org (3.00 / 0)

where's factcheck.org when you need it..

I hope someone fact checks this


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: factcheck.org (none / 0)

Maybe she has been saying it to Bill.  Certainly not to the press or Dems, etc.


by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Still unsure (3.00 / 1)

Its a hard question for a standing Senator to concretely answer, almost calls for predicting the future.

That said, he could have been a bit clearer. Still unsure on what he would prefer actually prefer to do.


by okamichan13 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:41:19 PM EST

Re: Still unsure (none / 0)

Had the same reaction to Obama -- didn't come away with any sense that he'd struggle to get U.S. out.

Not that I felt real sure of any of them, actually. Edwards is free to say anything, but does he mean it? Clinton and Obama were weaselly. Though Clinton did stick up for Pelosi going to Syria. Dodd and Biden were wonky, conventional and uninspiring. Richardson seemed solid and then went weaselly about U.S. oil companies in Iraq -- not too surprisingly given the New Mexico context.

Sigh -- more "anybody but Bush" here.


Can It Happen Here?
by janinsanfran on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:15:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the others (none / 0)

The all combat out by March 2008 means nothing.  How may noncombat troops is he planning on leaving in theater and for how long?


by Kingstongirl on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:42:57 PM EST

Re: Obama and the others (none / 0)

Not 75000 like Hillary does.


by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the others (none / 0)

That number if from a former aide to Donald Rumsfeld.


by bsavage on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:40:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I kinda liked this one (none / 0)

from the MoveOn event (not an AP story)

Edwards -

This is "not a game of chicken" or "keeping Joe Lieberman happy."

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view .php?id=25415


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:43:21 PM EST

John Edwards (3.00 / 0)

"But this is not the time for political calculation, this is the time for political courage. This is not a game of chicken. This is not about making friends or keeping Joe Lieberman happy. This is about life and death--this about war. We are done letting George Bush manipulate the rhetoric of patriotism, only to use our troops as political pawns. If Bush vetoes funding for the troops, he's the only one standing in the way of the resources they need. Nobody else.

"Congress must stand firm. They must not write George Bush another blank check without a timeline for withdrawal--period. If Bush vetoes the funding bill, Congress should send another funding bill to him with a binding plan to bring the troops home. And if he vetoes it again, they should do it again."

http://johnedwards.com/news/speeches/mov eon_townhall_iraq/


by littafi on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:14:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I kinda liked this one (none / 0)

I liked that comment too.  Edwards is da man.


by changehorses08 on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 02:45:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (3.00 / 1)

I have a summary of all of the candidates' comments here: http://www.debatescoop.org/story/2007/4/ 10/132510/046

Obama actually did a good job with the "how to react to Bush veto threat" question as Matt notes. But the sweet line referencing Mccain's market tour was not in answer to a question. In fact, the question was, "What is your plan . . ." and Obama's answer for the most part was about what a wreck the status quo is. In fairness, he did then sketch his plan (same one he has had for some time) but in less detail than some of the other candidates.

Hillary was the most evasive in answering questions and did the most pandering to MoveOn.

Edwards, as usual, dropped a passive/aggressive dig at Obama.


Visit DebateScoop
by demondeac on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 08:44:11 PM EST

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

Well if it is the same plan he has had for months, I'm not sure how much detail he needed to give.  We already know what he is calling for in that regard.


by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (3.00 / 1)

Edwards' dig was right on and accurately characterizes the very substantial weakness Obama has on the issue of prematurely caving ( a major personality trait I think) and using Republican talking points.  

So Hillary acknowledged the positive role MoveOn has played in the political realm, therefore she's pandering!!!!  And what if she had said nothing about the role MoveOn has played in the political world,  then she would have been neglectful or whatever negative characterization you could use..

If you're Hillary Clinton, damned if you do, damned if you don't.


by debcoop on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:11:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

Call it pandering or a smart move.  The Internet has changed Political Campaigns. When Obama has raised 25 mill and his poll numbers have not moved up maybe it is getting through to the  candidates the big money influence has given way to Internet savvy.


by changehorses08 on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 02:49:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (1.00 / 0)

Fisrt of all, you're either lying or you're cherry picking polls because the latest Rasmussen is 33% Clit, 29% Obama and 15% Edwards.

Second of all, it's never been about the money -something Camp Clinton doesn't get - it's about donors and votes.

Having said that, I still think you should wait till next week when we take the American people's pulse again in the form of another poll.

Remember all the big mouths about Obama and the Black vote? Well, he has the majority of the Black vote now and it put him in the lead in South Carolina so, dought all you want.

Hillary Clinton is a fake and she's not going to win. Obama is in the perfect position right now.


"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama
by ObamaEdwards2008 on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 04:06:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

good job by Obama, he did make a bit of a mistake last week on the Iraq veto framing wasn't
nearly as bad as Kos and others made it out to be but it needed cleaning up.
Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:05:35 PM EST

Re: Moveon Townhall (1.00 / 0)

I am shocked at you actually not saying something negative about Obama.  
You better take your temperature and see if you are feeling alright.  Or maybe it was someone pretending to be Matt.  We all know only Edwards is good enough for mydd.
by vwcat on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:22:46 PM EST

Re: Moveon Townhall (3.00 / 2)

Come on Man Grow up.... I support the same guy, and I'M GETTING TIRED of you crap.  It's not always a conspiracy, its not always someone out to get you or Obama.  Relax and propel the debate.


by yitbos96bb on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:42:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

Obama could give some publicity to a few of the 54 co-sponsors to his and Patrick Murphy's bill to bring the troops home and stability to Iraq. That might help with his effort to gain more support among Republicans, and to get to the number needed to override a veto.

Did everyone hear that videos of the segments will be available at 11pm tonight? I muddled through with audio from AirAmerica.com and the still pictures, tho' not of all of the candidates, from MoveOn.org. Sometimes it's actually a help to listen and follow someone speaking without the distraction of watching body and facial movements.


by Books Alive on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 09:31:19 PM EST

Re: Moveon Townhall (3.00 / 0)

I watched and this time, I listened as if I were an undecided voter. It was helpful for me that Barack Obama was last so had no distractions.LOL.

Edwards: IMHO. I felt that Edwards was reading from a script by his tone and I did not feel as if he was being sincere. When that happens, it makes it difficult for me to pay attention. While I agree with him on many points, I do not feel he believes in his own rhetoric.

Biden: IMHO: I felt as though he was being honest and sincere and "articulated" his ideas very well.

Kucinich: IMHO: I felt that he showed the most passion and stated , unapologetically , his position. I lamented that his strong position, while very similar to my own, that because he is so upfront and because he is so progressive, fear of a 2008 defeat by many ,will cost him his bid.

Richardson: IMHO: I listened to him , but for some reason , was unable to remain focused on what he was saying.

Clinton: IMHO: I intentionally put added effort to pay attention in an effort to determine if she would indicate that she learned from her mistakes. Her plan is still not consistent with the desires of the American people. She evaded her questions through campaign rhetoric and pandering. Her arrogance made it difficult for me to embrace any good points - if there were any.

Dodd: IMHO: I also found it very difficult to pay attention to him. He did not hold my interest.

Barack Obama: IMHO: I appreciated the authenticity in his comments. Although he "opined" a bit in his answers, he still answered the questions posed which is the important part. I agree with Obama that we have to not only withdrawal from Iraq, but that we also have to implement a progressive diplomatic policy towards Iran and Syria. It is vital to our national security. Also, the fact that Barack Obama talked about things taking place in Iraq TODAY and talking about the troops that we have lost since the beginning of this month as well as oppose the Pentagon's latest action with regards to deploying more troops, let's me know that he is current in what's happening. He's paying attention and he's not out of the loop. I feel that he is taking this very seriously.


"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama
by ObamaEdwards2008 on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 10:03:50 PM EST

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

all I really have a problem with at this point is the simple fact that all we have to go on, is this town hall.

why can't someone please set up a debate that can be nationally televised - haven't we shown statistically that the average american is engaged? lord knows someone could sell advertising on this thing


.. and when I win the lottery, gonna donate half my money to the city so they have to name a school or a park after me - camper van beethoven
by heyAnita on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 11:29:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

This campaign started way too early.  But I agree I would really like to get a feel for the interchange between these candidates on the issues.


by changehorses08 on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 02:53:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

Right, you are giving an unbiased view of John Edwards's talk.  Not.


by littafi on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:12:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

I thought Obama stank on Iran, I heard his answer as: we've got the right to attack them if we decide they are supporting terrorists or not doing our bidding on nuke stuff. That's neocon territory, but Obama came very close to assuming it. I suppose he has to prove to the Beltway crowd that he is a grown up, but if that what it takes, ferget it! Not that any of the others are better.


Can It Happen Here?
by janinsanfran on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

I like Obama a lot although I am still sitting the fence.  I have had concerns that he is a little green but he keeps impressing me.  Great line about McCain.


by John Mills on Tue Apr 10, 2007 at 11:34:02 PM EST

Daschle and Obama (none / 0)

Former Sen Tom Daschle, who I think now and even thought back then as I ground my teeth in frustration when he was Democratic Senate Majority or Minority leader, was and still is the epitome of a mealy mouthed, spineless, bend over backward compromising Democrat.

I was a member of a DNC women's group back then, and I left it for a while in complete anger over how he ran the Democratic caucus in the Senate.

When confronted by a MSM enforced Republican talking point he would always back down.  When Russert on MTP demanded in Jan 2000 that Daschle acknowledge that George Bush was legitimately elected he did just what Timmeh wanted.

So imagine how I felt to find that he's an important Obama advisor, indeed that Obama sought his counsel.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18040719/fro m/RS.2/

A quote

"The two men share a similar approach to both the process and substance of politics: a certain soft-spoken meticulousness, and a desire to blunt the sharp edges of partisanship"

In this era, this is a recipe for losing  our fights and surrendering our principles. When the Republicans have lost some more, many more elections maybe then you can afford to trust them. Why even Bill Clinton thinks the Republicans need to lose some more before you can trust them enough to be bipartisan.  Obama just doesn't get that,  and his cultivation of Daschle just is just more evidence.


by debcoop on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 12:59:46 AM EST

Re: Moveon Townhall (none / 0)

Obama is too careful.  He is making the same mistake that McCain has made.  He doesn't want to disappoint the fat cat crowd with -- perish the though -- a liberal idea.  This is the time when we need bold answers to the enormous problems in this country.  While the country demands a new direction--from Obama we just get rope-a-dope.


by changehorses08 on Wed Apr 11, 2007 at 02:59:28 AM EST


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