Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observer

Kos attacks Obama.

I wish this was an April Fools Day joke:

If President Bush vetoes an Iraq war spending bill as promised, Congress quickly will provide the money without the withdrawal timeline the White House objects to because no lawmaker "wants to play chicken with our troops," Sen. Barack Obama said Sunday.

What a ridiculous thing to say. Not only is it bad policy, not only is it bad politics, it's also a terrible negotiating approach.

Instead of threatening Bush with even more restrictions and daring him to veto funding for the troops out of pique, Barack just surrendered to him.

I agree with Kos.  I want to believe that Obama prizes civility, and that he has in his heart progressive instincts.  I want to believe he's a movement guy, that his early organizing experience is the key to understanding his career, and that his critique of the political system suggests a willingness to change politics as we know it in fundamentally good ways.

But I can't.  It's not just that he has not distinguished himself on the war from Senator Clinton and her plan for perpetual occupation (which isn't to say that he won't do that eventually).   It's that he seems not to have any sense of how leaders must act in the modern political environment.  Here's more of the piece.

"My expectation is that we will continue to try to ratchet up the pressure on the president to change course," the Democratic presidential candidate said in an interview with The Associated Press. "I don't think that we will see a majority of the Senate vote to cut off funding at this stage."...

"I think that nobody wants to play chicken with our troops on the ground," said Obama. "I do think a majority of the Senate has now expressed the belief that we need to change course in Iraq.

"Obviously we're constrained by the fact that a commander in chief who also has veto power has the option of ignoring that position," Obama said....

"If the president vetoes this, the American people have to continue to put pressure on their representatives so that at some point we may be able to get a veto-proof majority for moving this war in a different direction," the senator said.

Maybe the article is written badly, and someone from the Obama campaign can help clarify.  But I don't think so.  He is saying on the one hand that the bill will pass, thereby undercutting leverage that progressives won, and on the other hand discussing what the movement should do as if he's not part of it.

This is a consistent and consistently disappointing trait in Obama's rhetorical style, and why the energy around him still has not coalesced into a movement.  He refuses to engage in the political environment as an actor, seeing himself as an observer.  It's like he doesn't think his words and prognostications particularly matter, like he's a law professor musing on legalistic probabilities.  

Real political leaders don't ask the people they lead to do what they won't do themselves.  And so when Obama asks the American people to put pressure on their representatives to stop the war, but acts as a dispassionate observer on the question, he is just dithering.  And it shows.



Display:


You are NOT just an observer (3.00 / 6)

I think the bigger thing that just happened is not that Obama would drop his support for withdrawal, but that Democrats who continue to push for it are "playing chicken with our troops."  Imagine how the White House will use that quote to undermine Democratic efforts to mandate a troop withdrawal.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:04:57 PM EST

No kidding - thats much better (none / 0)

than the "slow bleed" thing.


by okamichan13 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:33:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are NOT just an observer (none / 0)

Joseph Barack Isador Obama Lieberman


by CMBurns on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:38:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

said the same variant (3.00 / 3)

on CNN..


BLITZER: Because some ardent opponents of the war, like Dennis Kucinich, for example, who is a Democratic presidential candidate...

OBAMA: Right.

BLITZER: ... he takes a principled stand. He's not going to vote to fund troops going off to this war, because he believes that would help bring the troops home.

OBAMA: Right.

You know, the problem is, is that you have got an obstinate administration that has shown itself unwilling to change in the face of circumstances on the ground.

And, in that situation, what you don't want to do is to play chicken with the president, and create a situation in which, potentially, you don't have body armor, you don't have reinforced humvees, you don't have night-vision goggles.

Now, there is a ratcheting-up of pressure on the president. And I am very pleased about the vote that took place yesterday, where a majority of the Senate for the first time said we need to have a timetable.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0 704/01/le.01.html


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:43:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Imagine If We Had A GOP Contender Using Our Frames (3.00 / 5)

on the US Attorneys scandal.

Just think about it.

I think your head is likely to explode before you can come up with a credible narrative doing that coming out of the mouth of Guiliani, Romney, McCain or any of the others.

Yet, this happens repeatedly with Obama.

So long as we put up with this, it's as much our fault as it is his.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:49:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: said the same variant (none / 0)

Note all references to the troops are not about their equipment and the like.


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 05:15:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)


by dpANDREWS on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are NOT just an observer (3.00 / 3)

   I'm not a Hillary fan, but is she now more credible on Iraq than Obama?  At least she has told us what she'd do if she were elected (keep some troops in for "peacekeeping missions").  This is a classic blue dog-type maneuver.  If Ben Nelson had come out with this statement, we would be furious.  But "Progressive Democrat" Obama said it, so it's OK.  We've just been Sister Souljah-ed.  Again.  Great.  Not only is Obama failing to lead, he is undermining anti-war sentiment in the Congress.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are NOT just an observer (none / 0)

keep some troops in for "peacekeeping missions

Yeah right - if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you.


by SandThroughTheEyeGlass on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 07:26:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can't you read mister? (3.00 / 0)

He says that NOBODY wants to play chicken with the troops (GWB's expression). What Dems want is to change course in Iraq.

I agree with Matt that Obama must learn to be more active and forceful in his words. But his motives are pure. The Obama slaughter going on here (not so much among the front posters) is beyond disgusting. It reminds me of the treatment that Dean got from MSM.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:34:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't you read mister? (3.00 / 3)

Yes, I can read.  And I'm not going to try to interpret Obama's motives.  I'm tired of being told to interpret what he says, because his supproters always seem to try to do that.

What Obama said was that if Bush vetoes the House and Senate bills supporting troop withdrawal, the House and Senate will send him bills without withdrawal in it.  After all, "nobody wants to play chicken with the troops" (Obama's words).

This implies that if Democrats send back a bill with withdrawal, they are playing chicken.  Why is this so hard to understand for Obama zealots?


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:44:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't you read mister? (none / 0)

Oh please. Questioning Barrack comments is "disgusting".  But it's ok for you all to take down everything Hillary says? Barrack needs to answer some questions, bottom-line. Is "HOPE" going to get us through Populism2008? Is "CHARISMA" going to get us through" Populism2008?  Barrack is an eloquent speaker, but from what I can see so far, a weak leader. Maybe that will change. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But it "ain't" looking good Barrack supporters. What is his platform?  What are his views on free trade (I.E. Nafta), death penalty, habeus corpus, affirmation action and gay marriage? AND MOST IMPORTANT WHAT IS HIS PLAN TO GET US OUT OF IRAQ? I kept checking his website for answers. Still nothing...

Hillary 2008 (Bill, First Man)


by lonnette33 on Mon Apr 02, 2007 at 09:38:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lets be honest here (2.00 / 0)

The only way to end this war is to ELECT a Democratic president. There is absolutely no way Democrats are going to defund this war as long as Bush is still president. It is a loser issue for Dems particularly in red states where pro-war sentiment is higher than in blue states.

Obama is right. The only way, in the interim, to end this war is to get veto proof majority votes in the house and senate to override Bush. This involves anti-war folks putting tremendous pressure on their elected officials to end this war.


by rosebowl on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:09:42 PM EST

Re: Lets be honest here (3.00 / 1)

But the question is, what pressure is Obama putting on those lawmakers?


by adamterando on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:13:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lets be honest here (none / 0)

Obama doesn't vote to elect those lawmakers. It is their constituents who vote. At the end of the day, unless lawmakers start feeling the heat in their districts, they won't have that sense of urngency to bring this war to a close.

This is the central issue here.


by rosebowl on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:17:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lets be honest here (none / 0)

It would sure help though if Obama could use some persuasion on his friend Joe Lieberman.


by adamterando on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:21:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lets be honest here (none / 0)

hahaha. Joe Lieberman is a lost cause - we all know that. :)
Seriously though, people like Sen Chuck Hagel have a strong conscience about ending this war. People like him are very rare on the GOP side.

For the rest of the GOP senators and their colleagues on the house side, it will take a growing and very vocal push from their constituents to end this war. This is where the people have to make their voices heard the most.


by rosebowl on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lets be honest here (none / 0)

   Poor Obama.  I mean what can he really do?  He's only a multi-millionaire senator with widespread appeal among Democrats and Independents alike.  What a loser.  He should go back to book-writing.
    This country voted to end this war in November of 2006.  Is the country going to have get even angrier for the 2008 cycle?
Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well he could try standing firm and have a voice (3.00 / 3)

He could try using his voice to set a new vision.
He could stand up to Bush and try and lead.

Which is what I would be looking for in my candidate.

He could try to prevent the Republicans from Framing this as an anti troop, postition!


Check out the New Progressive Blog EENRBLOG
by dk2 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:09:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lets be honest here (none / 0)

      Let's.  You're being ridiculous.  If Bush needs the money for the troops so badly, then why is he going to VETO the supplemental?!  HE is the obstruction!  The Democrats control Congress.  Bush continues to provoke confrontation, and the Democrats unfailingly back down.  It's depressing to watch.  And now Obama is in a newspaper with a huge circulation talking about caving in to Bush!  We have choices now, and Obama is just too afraid to make the right decision.  He's too afraid too lead.
     Why should the Democrats have to work to override a veto on legislation the president requested?!  It's madness.  Obama knows perfectly well that there are 33 Republicans senators who would support Bush if he decided to invade Quebec.  We'll never have enough to override a veto.
Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:34:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The way it should be... (none / 0)

"Why should the Democrats have to work to override a veto on legislation the president requested?!  It's madness."

No, it's the American system and I love it.  This is a great lesson for every civics class in the country (that's left that is).  Both are in a position to blame the other and it goes nowhere without compromise.  It's a gambit the majority got themselves into by not having the political will to simply cut off the funding.  Any idiot can see that.  


by DetCord on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The way it should be... (none / 0)

   Thanks for the civics lesson.  We already compromised to give Bush the bill he wanted.  Bush isn't a dictator, and we don't have to give him the exact bill he wants.  Bush refuses to compromise, and we cave every single time.  Legislative creativity is needed, perhaps as some have suggested, by giving him enough money for only a short time.  It's time that someone stood up to bully-in-chief.  Obama is too weak.  Let's find someone strong.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:23:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As I said somewhere else... (none / 0)

...I'm furious at what Congress does to budgets every year and the pork and lard and garbage ($24 BILOLION unrelated to defense) in this supplemental alone should be burned at the stake.  How about passing the President a clean bill without the Congrtessional corruption attached and THEN see what he does with it?


by DetCord on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 06:19:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

$ 124 BILLION For Exxon??? (none / 0)

Haven't seen the sub-prime mortgage bust? The war has bankrupted the USA. We cannot afford $124 BILLION to steal Iraq's Oil for Exxon, et al.

So let's FILIBUSTER ANY new 'supplemental. Then the generals can ask Congress for funds to extract the troops.

This is 100% inevitable anyway. We will be in a global depression by the end of 2008.


by blues on Mon Apr 02, 2007 at 12:28:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You need to get out more... (none / 0)

"Bankrupted the USA"?  What kind of commie mush have had your head buried in?  This economy, Wall Street, consumer spending etc is doing quite well thank you and "bankrupted" isn't even close.  I'd like to see more saving and I'd certainly like to see more small business incentives.  If it weren't for 15 million illegals depressing wages, those would be higher.  This bill is laden with Congressional pork that was needed to bribe members to vote for it because they didn't have the guts or courage to vote for cutting off the money to end the war.  You know that and I know that and now we're all paying the pricefor the cowardice among this "new leadership" we thought was elected.  Put the blame for this were it belongs and that's on the jelly-spined leadership that refused to cut of the funding.  


by DetCord on Mon Apr 02, 2007 at 02:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama isn't trying to lead you (none / 0)

Obama isn't trying to be the leader of the anti-war movement.  He's trying to be the leader of the country.  

All three democratic candidates will sharply reduce troop strength in Iraq, but neither will completely remove troops.  So Obama is willing to cave to bush.  That's to bad, but it happens.

Yes, the war sucks, but it's going to suck for the Iraqis for a long time, regardless of whether we stay or go.  

Besides, the bill is a cop-out anyway. I mean, troop withdraw by march 2008? No enforcement? Who gives a damn anyway?

That Obama caves to bush is annoying, but that doesn't mean he'll be a bad president.


by delmoi on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 07:12:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! (1.50 / 2)

Just check out my diary entry:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/3/31/1147 5/0367

$124 BILLION 'Supplemental' -- All For EXXON!!! Add to Hotlist

by blues, Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 11:47:05 AM EST

George W. Bush has NO interest in vetoing a $124 BILLION giveaway to Exxon!!! Just look at the fine print in these bills!!! $124 BILLION to Exxon!!! 124 BILLION pints of American BLOOD to Exxon!!!

'Operation Iraqi Liberation'!!! (O.I.L.) -- Search for it in:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/ 2003/03/20030324-4.html

If Congress simply passes a $0.00 'Supplemental', the Pentagon will promptly ask for money to get the troops out. Our plans to 'permit' Exxon, et al. to rape Iraq's oil will face opposition from FOUR MILLION ARABS, PERSIANS, and KURDS!!! (Not to mention Russia, China, India, and Iran.)

A draft is coming, and everyone who has less than a million dollars in Swiss Franks will have their children 18 to 45 drafted and destroyed. -- So we can continue to hot-rod around fixing our perverted speed addiction.



BUSH WILL PROBABLY SIGN THAT SUCKER!!!

Looking for something he WON'T sign???

Try a bill that grants 80% of all Oil money the the Iraqi people!!!


by blues on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:12:53 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (3.00 / 1)

There are very few things that Obama could do that would make him drop lower in my estimation than Hillary. He just did one of them.

Yeah, he's probably still better than her, but he  had my hopes up so much, while I had no such hopes in her. Thankfully we're not being forced to choose between the lesser of two evils; there is another candidate out there I can be fully happy supporting.

Am I overreacting? This is by far the most important immediate issue facing America. Candidates can have lots of flaws, but if you fail on this one issue, you fail. Simple as that.


by Zephyrus on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:14:02 PM EST

Matt, you should watch this video of Obama (none / 0)

from Saturday.


by NuevoLiberal on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:15:14 PM EST

first thought (3.00 / 2)

watching this interview on CNN with Wolfie was Obama is repeating the GOP frame,

that if we don't fund the war, the troops will be fighting on without the equipment they need.

Obama is great on many things but building the Democratic Brand is not one of them


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:16:06 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

Holy Crap, prepare for ANOTHER Edwards vs. Obama fight/narrative to begin...


by JewishJake on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:18:04 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

This is one of the main reasons I find myself unable to support Obama - he finds it too easy to sympathize with the other side.  If you all remember correctly, he did the same exact thing when the Alito nomination was filibustered.


Netroots for Gore
by NYPopulist on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:19:05 PM EST

NOT just an observer (3.00 / 4)

I want the next president to be from the Democratic Party.

In the November 2008 general election I will vote for whoever is the Democratic Party nominee (two exceptions - Zell Miller or Joe Lieberman - neither is going to happen, so I'm quite safe there).

I can forgive many things of Democratic Party candidates as I search for an individual to support up to the end of the presidential nomination process. However, adopting republican language or frames is not one of them.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:26:21 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

   Yes, that's precisely the problem.  It's not Obama's bipartisan rhetoric that is the problem.  It's that he doesn't know how to take a lead on a "controversial" issue.  He's a SENATOR!  It's time he started leading.  At least I know where Hillary stands on the Iraq War.  I'm very, very disappointed in Obama.  This is almost a deal-breaker.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:28:00 PM EST

He's plunged in the charts to me (3.00 / 2)

 What an astonishingly poor job of framing, messaging, and just plain leading by Obama.

 He's not quite dead to me as a presidential candidate, but this is as close to a mortal blow as there is. He just destroyed all the momentum the Democrats had gained over the Iraq bill.

 This is NOT the mark of a leader. And if Obama's so scared of a deeply unpopular and incompetent president, how's he going to do when he's got to deal with real world leaders?

 I'm ordering my Edwards sticker today...


by Master Jack on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:29:42 PM EST

So when Bush vetos we give up? (3.00 / 2)

and give him his money with no conditions and back to the drawing board?

That's not audacious or courageous. He has a chance to make a powerful statement and he squanders it. With so much promise, this is really sad.


by okamichan13 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:30:52 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

Don't ever trust a paraphrased quote from the AP. We've had way too much experience with this. I seem to remember an AP account of his speech at the Harkin Steak Fry that said he gave a speech about National Security... I was there. He didn't.

Remember the AP hitpiece on Obama last week?

Let's try and view the media with a more skeptical eye than this. If I see an actual quote from Obama that says he wants to remove withdrawal provisions, okay. But I don't trust the AP at all.


Further Reading
by Dave Sund on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:32:36 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

It is foolhardy for progressives to think that this crazy war is going to end before Bush and Darth vader vacate the white house.

The democratic party has very slim majorities in both houses of congress.Bush will veto their bills and democrats with their lackluster way in framing wars are going to be beat at it again. So Obama is on the realistic track here.


by kekuta on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:32:57 PM EST

So Give Him His Seat On Chris Matthews (3.00 / 2)

and let a political advocate take his place in the Democratic Party.


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (3.00 / 1)

This is a consistent and consistently disappointing trait in Obama's rhetorical style

This is one of the reasons I can not support Barack Obama in the primaries: He does not hesitate to run against the Democratic Party.  

I want a candidate who will be a) partisan and b) a good ambassador for the Democrats. Barack Obama just is not the one to do it.  I'm convinced this is why, as Chris notes, "the energy around him has not coalesced into a movement."  It's also the reason I believe that his bipartisanship, which Obama considers an asset, will be his Achilles Heel.

"Obviously we're constrained by the fact that a commander in chief who also has veto power has the option of ignoring that position," Obama said.

Someone needs to remind him that there is such a thing as voting to override a veto.  It's not as if Bush has the last word by vetoing the bill.


by KimPossible on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:34:47 PM EST

He definitely didn't Help Himself Here (3.00 / 1)

I agree with Matt that Obama screwed up here.  Ironically, however, I don't think it's because he's on the wrong side of this issue.  

From a practical standpoint, what he said probably reflects the current view on this issue in the Senate.  The Nelsons, Pryor, etc aren't going to really dig in against Bush on the funding bill if he vetoes the current bill. And, like Matt said, if he made that statement as a professor or a talking head on TV I would just not my head and say "yeah, that's probably what's going to happen."  

Unfortunately, this really does screw us in trying to at least make Bush squirm over rejecting the current bill.  I guess my question, and I ask this as an Obama supporter, is whether a statement like this is an example of inexperience or if it's a more fatal flaw.  

God knows it must be difficult to have EVERY statement you make picked apart, but that certainly is the reality of modern politics.  I think he'll get better at staying on message, but he's probably not going to be as perfectly controlled as Hillary or even Edwards in the near future.  That's a legitimate weakness.  At this point, I still think what he brings to the table outweighs the negatives but this definitely doesn't help.    


by HSTruman on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:36:01 PM EST

Re: He definitely didn't Help Himself Here (3.00 / 3)

   This is more than a few random statements.  This was printed in USA Today.  Obama is now the first Democrat on record to say the Democrats will cave in to Bush.  This is the type of maneuvering I'd expect of Ben Nelson.  At least Nelson knows when to keep his mouth shut.  This is a failure of leadership.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He definitely didn't Help Himself Here (none / 0)

This is close to my thinking on this. Obama's comments are reality-based, can't disagree. OTOH, talk about letting GWB off the hook ...


by dblhelix on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Reality-based" (3.00 / 1)

    I'm not very impressed that Obama knows that Bush is going to veto the supplemental.  Everyone knows that.  If Obama wants to return to the reality-based community, he has to realize that he can take the lead in the Senate.  He gives up so easily!  I think he's lacking in character.  Weak, weak, weak.  John Kerry '04 redux.


Jim Oberweis
by cilerder86 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:50:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dithering (3.00 / 2)

And so when Obama asks the American people to put pressure on their representatives to stop the war, but acts as a dispassionate observer on the question, he is just dithering.  And it shows.
"Dithering" captures it exactly.  

But it's not just limited to this one example--high profile though it may be.

His whole stance toward electoral politics seems to summed up as "dithering."

He gets into the Senate, thanks to a significant amount of support from progressives who respond to his outsider rhetoric, exemplified by, but hardly limited to opposing the Iraq War.

When he then disappoints them--cozzying up to Joe Lieberman of all people!--he offers the super-insider excuse that he doesn't have any seniority.

Then he turns around again, and runs for president, saying that he's been in Washington long enough to learn that it's broken.

And scoops up oooodles of money to change it... how, he won't exactly say.

I'd say he has dithering down to a fine art.

And he sells it as principle!


by Paul Rosenberg on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:39:08 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

What you don't see is that he has no one ideology.
He combines different ones but, has the most liberal record of the presidential candidates
by vwcat on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:41:04 PM EST

Obama must suck at Poker (3.00 / 1)

That is the quickest lamest bluff ever. Obama flinched before the Senate acts and holds his cards open faced for everyone to see.

Whateve leverage progressive democrats held has evaporated into the ether of shallow 'support the troops' rhetoric to score cheap political points.  

Maybe Obama should stick to 21. Though I fear he would hold at 14.


by optimusprime on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:47:24 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (3.00 / 1)

Somehow, I really doubt we would have seen this sort of ridiculous overreaction if it had been Edwards who made these remarks.  After reading the transcript, I think it's clear that--at worst--the Senator merely misspoke.  Furthermore, on the scale of presidential misstatements, this doesn't rank anywhere near the infamous "I voted for it before I voted against it."  Trumping it up as though this were the biggest story of the decade is either irresponsible or a clear demonstration of severe bias.

For Kos and others (including you, Matt) to jump on Senator Obama this quickly and this savagely is really unseemly.  I'm really disappointed in many of the most visible members of the netroots today.


by LPMandrake on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:29:52 PM EST

don't you remember (none / 0)

Edwards' so-called "insane warmongering" on Iran?

It turned out that what he said was not different from what many others have said, but that didn't stop a full-blown "Edwards is a warmonger" crusade here and at DKos.

I am withholding judgment on Obama on this one until I hear what he really said and meant. If the AP report was accurate (a big if), then Matt is absolutely right.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

I thought the biggest story of the decade was that Edwards wanted to nuke Iran and eat their radioactive babies.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dear Senator Obama: You are NOT just an observ (none / 0)

This site has officially become the MYEDWARDS site.  Good Luck and enjoy.


by aiko on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:34:01 PM EST

hello, this site savaged Edwards on Iran (none / 0)

even though what he said about not taking any option off the table was not different from what many others have said (like Wes Clark).


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is fair and balanced oppinion (none / 0)


I've listened to Obama several times: he does have a pragmatist streak in him. he is, personality-wise, more of a consensus builder than a fighter.

part of it is just his identity(racially) so he can't help seeing all sides of the coin.

remember he got into Alinsky's community organising but never really practiced alinsky fighting style: he rather brought to the job an insatiable desire to create win-win-win situations instead of win-lose situations.

it explains his appeal among independents and republicans (from his harvard days, for instance). it explains why he's our best shot for the presidency: the times call for his style.


by pmb on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:45:14 PM EST

Re: This is fair and balanced oppinion (3.00 / 2)

The times do NOT call for a consensus builder. They call for someone who will stand up to these bullies who are dragging the country down. The Dems need a strong leader who will not worry about someone not liking him/her. Obama comes across as weak and naive and constitutionally unable to fight when fighting is necessary.
What is there to build a consensus on:
Voter fraud? Habeas corpus? Geneva Conventions? Warrantless wiretapping? Body armor? New Orleans? World standing? Global warming? Stem cell research? Roe v. Wade?
Are you kidding me?
The only way to win is to stand strongly against everything Bush has done. Every. Single. Thing.
by mjames on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 05:31:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

GOP wants Obama bad (none / 0)

They have to be licking their chops at the prospect of running against him.   They won't even have to do to him what they did to Kerry or Gore.  They can just hand him the knife and he'll slit his own throat.


by dpANDREWS on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:54:27 PM EST

Is Obama putting Hillary in a box? (none / 0)

How will Hillary respond to this?

Thoughts?


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 04:54:49 PM EST

Slightly outt of context (none / 0)

Even the picture they chose for Obama is unflattering.

USA Today... rightie.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 05:21:18 PM EST

Obama being blunt? (none / 0)

Another way to look at Obama's response...

...Is that Obama in his blunt way is trying to tell us there are also Democrat lawmakers that don't want a timeline either.

Harold Ford has already informed us what the DLC'ers think of a withdrawal timeline, and I little doubt that Hillary also believes the same thing 'behind the scenes' as well.

----------

Obama has been blunt before when he was reluctant to support a filibuster with Alito - saying we just didn't have the numbers. He was right in the end.  If those who No for Alito voted for the filibuster we would have had the numbers, but we still had Democrats who voted for Alito anyways.


by SandThroughTheEyeGlass on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 07:45:33 PM EST

Re: Dear Senator Obama: (3.00 / 1)

This is bad. This is really, really bad. Reading this made me feel a little bit sick. We gave them the damn money. W says he's going to veto it, so now its his damn problem. Bush is the one playing chicken. This is terrible politics and even worse policy. Not only is there no excuse for these comments, there's no sense to it either.


by BobbyNYC on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 08:03:18 PM EST

Matt is right. (none / 0)

I went through this same disillusionment with Obama earlier. I wanted to believe, but could not.

He is too busy triangulating all the time between the Democrats and Bush.  Sometimes, I wonder, as bad as she is on some key issues, whether Hilary Clinton is better.  She at least will not give everything away in a negotiation.  

I support John Edwards, so I do not have to face that question: Hilary or Obama.    


by littafi on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 10:21:51 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.