Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too

Alan Boyd of the Blue Dogs, on the Blue Dogs:
"We think this is the group that represents where the greatest bloc of Americans are -- toward that big middle. Not far left, not far right, but that big middle, that's going to be able to get things done," he added. "And it's going to have to be done on a bipartisan basis."
OK, so according to the Blue Dogs, the Blue Dogs represent the middle. Now, as I understand it, proposals that are supported by the middle of the country typically forma majority. Majorities like this:
Would you support or oppose Congress trying to block Bush's plan by creating new rules on troop training and rest time that would limit the number of troops available for duty in Iraq?

Support: 58 percent
Oppose: 39 percent
Unknown: 4 percent
However, the only major victory of the Blue Dogs so far in the 110th Congress has been to defeat this popular proposal:
With Democrats in charge again, the Blue Dogs have played a key role in halting an emerging plan to place strict conditions on war funding. Their revolt helped beat back that proposal, by Pelosi ally John Murtha, D-Pa. Leaders are now considering a watered-down version.
Good job. I guess the "middle" actually means the 39% who opposed Murtha's plan instead of, you know, the majority of the country. The latest Gallup poll actually put much larger majorities in favor of specific provisions in Murtha's now dead plan, including 76% in favor of "Requiring U.S. troops returning from Iraq to stay in the U.S. for at least a year before being re-deployed to Iraq." The 21% opposed to that idea must also be the "middle." But the press is always there to back up their blue Dogs with their unyielding conventional wisdom. From the Politico:
Pelosi is trying to balance demands from anti-war liberal Democrats for dramatic moves to scale down -- or end -- the war against calls from more moderate and conservative Democrats to avoid votes that would undoubtedly jeopardize their own political futures. That includes a vote on a proposal by Rep. Jack P. Murtha (D-Pa.) to restrict the Pentagon in deploying the additional 21,500 combat troops that President Bush plans to send to Iraq.
Yes, Murtha's plan would have "undoubtedly" damaged Democrats in conservative districts. It obviously damaged conservative Murtha, who is from a marginal district in Pennsylvania, for example. The AP provides another assist:
The group's clout lies in its numbers and its reach into competitive districts that proved crucial to Democrats' victory last November. With just a 32-seat majority in the House, Democrats can't afford to alienate their conservative flank.
Wow, I doubt that the Blue Dogs could have better crafted that sentence themselves. Further, the AP reminds us that while progressives are unhappy with the lack of substantive Democratic actions on Iraq, in the end progressives don't really matter (emphasis mine):
Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., a member of the "Out of Iraq" caucus that favors forcing an end to the war, complained in a recent Web interview that Blue Dogs "are bragging that they have nine new members."

In the interview with the liberal group Progressive Democrats of America, she pointed out that the Progressive Caucus can boast the same number of freshmen.

But party officials argue that those more liberal newcomers are not in competitive seats, and that their supporters are unlikely to forsake Democrats in 2008, when they will be highly motivated to turn out to try to wrest the presidency from Republicans.
You see, progressives might be unhappy, but really their unhappiness doesn't matter. We can bring in whatever new members we want, but in the end we should shut up and do whatever the Blue Dogs say. And here is what the Blue Dogs are saying:
"Iraq is a good example," Boyd said. "The majority of the caucus would say, 'Let's be really strong in forcing the president out of here.' Well, some of us are really uncomfortable playing general, and you're going to see that reflected in what we vote on."
While gleefully using Republican talking points, Alan Boyd just bragged that the Blue Dogs killed Murtha's plan to do anything substantive about Iraq. If you brag that prevented Democrats from doing anything substantial about the war, then enjoy owning the Iraq war as well. This is also a guy who was also in the fainthearted faction on Social Security--in Florida. I think we just found another primary challenge for 2008. I am quite confident that anyone running on a pro-Iraq war, anti-Social Security platform in even a marginal district like FL-02 will go down to defeat once their positions are known. And in a primary amongst just Democrats, running against someone like that would be fish in a barrel.

More: Some of the new members of the progressive caucus include Gabrielle Giffords in AZ-08, John Hall in NY-19, Jerry McNerney in CA-11, and Bruce Braley in IA-01. Not exactly uber-blue districts--Braley's is the only district that Kerry won, and all were held by Republicans before this year. It was also fun when Mazie Hirono actually replaced Ed Case in HI-02 this year, since that seat shifted from Blue Dog held to Progressive held. The real difference between members like these and Alan Boyd is that they are willing to fight the way Republicans portray Democratic policy proposals, while Boyd helps Republicans portray Democratic policy proposals like Murtha's plan in as negative a fashion as possible.



Display:


Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

See, opposing the Iraq war is something that conservative Dems just can't afford to do. You can see that in John Murtha's resounding defeat in the 2006 midterms, no doubt due to this position.
Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 06:31:33 PM EST

yes, a primary challenge is in order (none / 0)

I forgot that he was willing to sell out Social Security. Get us a real Democrat from that district!


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 06:40:38 PM EST

Another primary challenge? (2.50 / 2)

Well, to quote some dumbass diary I read here:

"We can leverage the power of running primary candidates against 'centrist' Democrats into something mighty--and mighty frightening. As Stoller says, we don't have much institutional reach ... but we have more than we think.

Politicians worry about primaries; they probably worry more than necessary, even. Yes, we lost with Lieberman--though we forced him to do his backstabbing from the front--but we cost him a lot of money and a lot of sleepless nights. And some humilitation, too.

What if a very visible members of the netroots ran a weekly 'Primary Challenge' poll here and on dKos, etc.? They'd write a little blurb about the Democrats who they think most deserved a primary that week, and community members would list their own suggestions in comments: one per comment title, perhaps.

So we'd have a running weekly tally of offensive Dems, with the intention of funding primary opponents against the top 10, or whatever.

We could also, weekly, email those Dems who moved 'up' in the ranking the previous week, with a little message: 'Just thought you'd like to know that by your actions X, Y, and Z, you're funding a primary challenge. Last week 320 activists pledged to donate to any Democrat running against you in a primary. Stay tuned next week!'

Markos and his bloggie peons could front-page a ranking, with those little up-and-down red and green arrows every so often, to give office holders and their staff the chills.

And finally, if we're serious about institutionalizing the threat and reality of primary challenge funding, community members would donate a recurring amount to, say, a specific BlogPac fund for this purpose. (Or perhaps ActBlue could set up the primary equivalent of their 'draft Candidate So-and-So' pages.)

We don't have the long term institutional power. But we have passion and money, and we can leverage them far better than we're currently doing.


by BingoL on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 06:50:08 PM EST

'Primary Challenge' poll (none / 0)

I love this idea.


by Zimbel on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 06:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 'Primary Challenge' poll (none / 0)

Me, too. With a cherry on top, because it requires that someone else do all the hard work!


by BingoL on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:12:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (3.00 / 1)

I used to live in that district. Boyd's relatively popular and would be tough to beat, even in a primary. One person mentioned a while back as a possible challenger is former Tallahassee Mayor Scott Maddox. However, Maddox's political star lost its luster after he ran the state party into the ground. Another potential candidate, who I'm not sure would be interested in running, is State Senator Al Lawson from Tallahassee. Lawson is wildly popular and well-respected in the district. He's moderate, but not totally off the reservation. I'm not sure he'd be interested, but he's the one guy that could beat Boyd in a primary.  


by BobbyNYC on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 06:51:50 PM EST

whack some of them in primaries (none / 0)

They'll get the message.


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 06:55:57 PM EST

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (3.00 / 1)

clearly, going after Blue Dogs is in the interest of progressives. Let them worry about the left as much as they're worrying about the right. Make the F**kers choose.


by gak on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:03:12 PM EST

Mr Bowers (none / 0)

You are applying the polls results to this question....


Would you support or oppose Congress trying to block Bush's plan by creating new rules on troop training and rest time that would limit the number of troops available for duty in Iraq?  

to a ...


plan to place strict conditions on war funding.

i wonder if you even know you're doing this.

if not, perhaps you should look up the poll numbers on defunding the war.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:19:01 PM EST

Re: Mr Bowers (none / 0)

Look, I know a lot more about poll numbers on all these topics than pretty much anyone around. The point is that when phrased in certain ways, the Murtha plan is quite popular. Obviously, if the Republican framing goes challenged, it won't be. But that is the case for everything.

Alan Boyd not only does not want to challenge Republican framing on this, he is actively using it himself. As other people have pointed out, Jack Murtha is himself a conservative Democrat from a marginal district, and it certainly does not appear that this has resulted in political suicide for him.
by Chris Bowers on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:52:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This leads me to conclude (none / 0)

that the so called blue dogs are not guilty of being outside the mainstream.  they are guilty of not putting out the right frame on murtha's proposal.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This leads me to conclude (none / 0)

Or they're guilty both of being outside the mainstream and of using the wrong frame.


by KDMfromPhila on Thu Mar 08, 2007 at 07:33:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (3.00 / 2)

I think Murtha and Pelosi shouldn't "water down" their proposal as much as streamline it. Rather than attach a series of things to one bill, start with the most popular and clearest item first. Just introduce a stand-alone bill requiring troops to stay in the US at least one year before getting rotated back in. Or start with the troops having enough training before being sent into combat. Then introduce another. And another. Make each issue clear enough that the vote can be easily understood and the opposing view can be appropriately ridiculed.


by BriVT on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:36:08 PM EST

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (3.00 / 2)

I wonder if Nancy has taken notice.  She seems to be old school in that you keep family disagreements in the family.  The Blue Dogs seem to relish going public with their admonishments of fellow Dems.  Is Steny's position just for show?  I like BingoL's idea because even if there isn't a Primary, it creates sort of a wall of shame for the Blue Dogs (if that's possible). The Blue Dogs sure are confident with their power, it's almost an affront to the Speaker.  I have no problem with moderation, but they're acting as if all roads lead to and thru the Blue Dogs.  Who died and made them gatekeeper.


by Kingstongirl on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:36:56 PM EST

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

It is time for us to reclaim the Democratic Party.  We need to elect real progressives.  

I see Harold Ford is now working for Fox.  John Edwards is boycotting the Fox debate.

The DLC, the blue dogs, I am so tired of them running things.  They can be part of the Party, but we always give in to them.

It is time to cut them off from funding.  When they come calling for contributions, remember what they did.


by littafi on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:38:23 PM EST

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

Contrast the "Blue Dogs" to the interview I just saw with Maxine Waters (member of Out of Iraq Now) who has the backbone to say, well, OUT. NOW.


by Bob Miller on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 07:58:39 PM EST

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

Plus, check out the AIPAC guys that are pulling the Blue Dog Line too...

Politico top right...


by SandThroughTheEyeGlass on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:06:03 PM EST

Here's our talking point (none / 0)


"We want to fully train and equip our troops. Republicans just want to dump them in the desert."

 Now, was that so hard? Supporting Murtha's plan = supporting the troops. Incredibly easy to frame it that way.

 I guess Blue Dogs don't care much for our troops, either. Why else would they pass on a bill that specifically addressed the concerns of their "conservative" districts?

 


by Master Jack on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:08:03 PM EST

Re: Here's our talking point (3.00 / 1)

Don't know if you all saw "the news" last week that the next two brigades slated for Iraq will forgo training at the NTC (National Training Center, aka Ft. Irwin). Folks, this is like sending a pilot out on combat missions without first learning how to fly.

We need to rally behind our leaders, and it's no secret who they are. Maxine Waters. John Murtha. Jim Webb. To qoute Forrest Gump, "Stupid is as stupid does" and I'm tired of politicians who continue to pander to stupidity.


by Bob Miller on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:56:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

I think none of these guys full appreciate the political environment.  They're thinking its 1996 or 1998 (or maybe 1980), when the environment is closest to 1974.  The American people want a complete change on the Iraq issue.  Sure, there are a few places that Democrats dare not tread (guns), but on the big issues -- Iraq, Health Care, the economy -- there is no going too far.  How do you explain that to a politician who's made a career of not going too far?

I don't think these guys are wankers (to use Atrios' favorite term), I think they're clueless.  Instead of pitching national polls, I'd love to see some polls done on these issues in these "conservative" districts.  I'd bet that like the rest of the country, these district H-A-T-E the President.  


by Jim Treglio on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:26:40 PM EST

Moveon, Dem groups (none / 0)

shd do what Vermont did re impeachment--sponsor county resolutions/referendum  to bring the troops home nationwide.


by jasmine on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:49:44 PM EST

Polling the Blue dogs state (none / 0)

Perhaps polls that show state by state or district by district--where the Blue Dog Reps are--where are their constituents on the issue.

Ask their constituents to call these Blue Dog Reps--Lobby them.

These is not just the Congressmen's fault --but people for not calling their congressmen who are not in the ball.


by jasmine on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:52:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

The tide is running strong and hard against "the middle."  Departed from the Republican side are Chafee, Boehlert, Leach, Schwartz, Simmons,and  Gerlach.  Case, Ford, Jim Davis, and Jeffords are gone (not all at the polls) and replaced by less moderate, usually more progressive individuals.


by David Kowalski on Wed Mar 07, 2007 at 08:54:58 PM EST

I'll Be There (none / 0)

Find a decent candidate to run against Boyd and I'm in to help fund it.  That may not be a lot from me personally (perhaps a couple hundred bucks), but there are a lot of people like me out there.

Not even Ellen Tauscher is as obnoxious as Boyd.


by kaleidescope on Thu Mar 08, 2007 at 12:17:03 AM EST

Re: Blue Dogs Own The War Now, Too (none / 0)

A rightwing troll that calls itself "Dfd" has invaded.  Idiot.


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Thu Mar 08, 2007 at 12:49:59 AM EST


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