The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory

Ok, so get ready for a really messed up backstory on the whole Fox News/CBC/Presidential politics angle.  Ben Smith at the Politico reminded me this sordid episode, and it's a nice microcosm of horrible insider corporate Democratic politics.  Here's the story.

Nielsen is the company that counts how many people watch a TV show so that ad buyers can plan their buys.  A few years ago, they proposed a change to their ratings system, which was based on paper surveys of sample audiences.  They wanted to automate counting with 'people meters' that could more accurately count viewership and demographics.  This is a big deal, because Nielsen is the referee for ratings, and tens of billion of dollars in ad buys are contoured around their ratings system.  When the service was first rolled out, initial tests suggested that certain Fox programs had lower minority audiences than was counted under the old paper system.  If News Corp let this change happen, Fox was going to take a hit.

At first, according to the New York Times, News Corp just tried threatening Nielsen.

What happened at the meeting is in dispute. Ms. Whiting met with Peter Chernin, president of the News Corporation, and Lachlan Murdoch, who is the son of Rupert Murdoch and chief executive of the Fox stations group. Ms. Whiting said she was told that ''if you go ahead, we will do everything possible to discredit you and the company in Washington and legally, and we will start a competitor.''

''I have never been threatened like that before,'' she said. ''So we knew it was serious.''

The integrity of ratings system is important for the health of the advertising market, so of course News Corp threatened to undermine it by creating their own ratings service which would apparently have ratings more favorable to Fox.  So apparently one of News Corp's specialties is polluting neutral and credible information systems with their own bad version based on bullshit that makes them more money.  They also use their unethical political tactics against business partners, which is rare in the business world.  I imagine if this happened in the news business they might have had a press release ready to go about Nielsen's 'fringe left-wing' bias.

Anyway, after these threats failed, News Corp began applying political pressure.  First, it hired well-connected Clintonistas.

That meeting led to the involvement of the Clinton camp. The News Corporation turned to the Glover Park Group, a media consulting firm whose partners include Joe Lockhart, who was a press secretary under President Bill Clinton; Michael Feldman, who was a senior adviser to Vice President Al Gore; and Howard Wolfson, who was Hillary Rodham Clinton's chief spokesman during her United States Senate campaign in 2000. The introduction was made by Gary Ginsberg, a former adviser to President Clinton who is now the News Corporation's executive vice president, according to people involved in the discussions.

Glover Park, in turn, hired former Clinton operatives on the West Coast to handle the anti-Nielsen campaign there, chiefly Mark D. Fabiani, a former Clinton White House special counsel who worked on the Whitewater inquiry; and Christopher S. Lehane, who was also a counsel in the Clinton White House. Both men also went on to work for Mr. Gore's presidential campaign in 2000.

The Glover Park Group has been at the center of some of the biggest policy debates in New York City in recent years. Partners from the firm have been involved in helping organize campaigns against two projects favored by Michael R. Bloomberg, the city's Republican mayor: revamping the city charter and building a stadium for the New York Jets on the West Side of Manhattan.

So there we have Howard Wolfsen, current advisor to Hillary Clinton, Mark Fabiani and Chris Lehane, who screwed up the Wes Clark campaign in 2004, Joe Lockhart, and a whole bunch of Bloomberg Democrats working through the Bronx machine.  Ugly.  That's not all.

Glover Park has helped organize the Don't Count Us Out Coalition, the public face of News Corp.'s advertising and grass-roots blitz designed to bring Nielsen to heel. The coalition describes itself on its Web site as a collection of "minority leaders, community groups, producers, directors, actors and everyday viewers." But it has acknowledged financial support from News Corp.

Though Glover Park - founded by former Clinton press secretary Joe Lockhart - has been consulting for News Corp. for a year, the firm only registered to lobby for the company last month, listing Joel Johnson, a senior adviser to the 2004 presidential campaign of Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), as its lobbyist. The coalition further beefed up its lobbying activity last month by hiring its first executive director, Cynthia Jasso-Rotunno. She's a veteran of the DNC's Hispanic Outreach Project and worked in the Clinton White House.

The coalition has also tapped Minyon Moore, a consultant with the Dewey Square Group, to work as a senior advisor. Moore helped create the anti-Bush group America Coming Together and last summer worked with rap mogul Sean "P. Diddy" Combs on his Vote or Die! Campaign.

So we've got Dewey Square, Vote or Die, Americans Coming Together in there as well, all with people working for Fox News to help them pressure Nielsen to cheat on its rating system.

And then there was this guy.

Another coalition ad that ran this week in The New York Times was signed by a host of minority and civil rights leaders, including the Hispanic Federation, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute and the National Puerto Rican Coalition.

The advertisement blasted Nielsen and directed readers to a Web site set up by Grassroots Enterprise, an organization run by former Clinton spokesman Mike McCurry.

Yup, that Mike McCurry of the astroturf sight Hands Off the Internet.

The campaign worked, sort of. There were some hitches, such the fact that Kweisi Mfume of the NAACP sided with Nielsen, as did Jesse Jackson.  Many members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, did go along.

"Sen. Clinton was proud to join with the NAACP, more than a dozen New York community groups, members of the New York delegation and over 50 lawmakers, to send a letter based on the merits of the issue," her press secretary, Philippe Reines, said yesterday. "She is extremely pleased that Nielsen is acting on those concerns by agreeing to the call to delay the implementation of the new ratings system in New York."

I hear that Murdoch-paid Democratic consultants also included The Dewey Square Group's Minyon Moore and Esther Aguilera - who coordinated the Congressional Black Caucus and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, respectively.

Eventually, News Corp was exposed, and there was a face-saving compromise where Nielsen made some adjustments to their meters.  

It's a pretty disgusting and hilariously corrupt episode.  Former (and current) Clinton advisors lobbying successfully on behalf of Rupert Murdoch to help his company cheat advertisers, and working through the CBC and CHC to do it.

This is the gross and excessively regulated media world intersecting with 1990s New Democratic politics intersecting with campaign consultants intersecting with a whole lot of Clintonistas getting very very rich intersecting with the CBC and CHC.

There is a way out of this moral mess.  First of all, there's no question now that the CBC should cancel this debate.  But that's not all.  Since Howard Wolfsen of Glover Park works for Hillary Clinton, and since she was part of this morass (not to mention the Murdoch fundraiser), she should do her part and announce she's not going to this debate.  The Democratic Party should not be willing to tolerate this kind of nonsense, and it should certainly not do so in service to legitimizing a Republican propaganda outlet.  I don't care how much it made Dewey Square and the Glover Park Group.



Display:


Politico is GENIUS, Man! (1.00 / 1)

Shhhhhhhh.

(when they're spreading shit on the clintons!)


by Stewieeeee on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:01:08 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

This is fairly standard - don't fix the problem, fix how the problem is measured, and then there's no problem.  Happens with economic stats all the time.


by Ian Welsh on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:04:22 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

hey matt, remember when hillary made peace with murdoch and the ny post (i think that's his outfit in nyc)? everyone wondered why hillary seemed to be getting into bed with murdoch. can you say quid pro quo?


by blackmahn on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:17:11 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (2.50 / 2)

Oh man!  My sentiments exactly.  When I read that, the first thought I had was "quid pro quo".  Bill gave us media consolidation, NAFTA/WTO and baby welfare reform in lieu of corporate welfare reform.  There is no way I'm voting for Hillary.  Think about it.  If Hillary wins, she will guilt and steamroll the Senate/House Dems into giving her corporations everything they want.  If a Republican wins, we have glorious stalemate and an opportunity to goad the Dems into fighting like hell for what's right instead of what the Clintons want.


Follow the money
by dkmich on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (3.00 / 2)

Wow,

This not only reaffirms my own assertions about Main Stream Media no longer being a viable source of News as well as my suspicions that the Clinton's can no longer trusted by Democrats but this should also be a wake up call to others still under the allusion that the Clinton's are their best friends.


"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama
by ObamaEdwards2008 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:20:46 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Well said!


by vwcat on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:26:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I don't see this as an exact parallel with the Nevada Democratic Party debate because the CBC Institute (separate from the Congressional Black Caucus itself) has tax-exempt status that renders it supposedly non-political. Any lawyers not on the payroll of Glover Park who can comment on this?

I don't think CBC Institute can make an overtly political decision. But they can make a bad decision that doesn't need to be respected - if they partnered with Pete's Pizzeria to broadcast a debate no candidate would bother to attend because a CBC Institute /Pete's Pizzeria debate wouldn't reach any significant number of Democratic voters. The same non-partisan logic applies to CBC Institute/Fox.

That said, ColorofChange.org should sponsor an online video debate the same night and give the audio free to any radio station that wants to carry it (partner w/American Urban Radio Network?). It would make sense for candidates to choose the debate that actually reaches a Democratic audience.


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:28:55 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

It isn't an overtly political decision to say that FoxNews isn't a credible news outlet, just like it wouldn't be overtly political to say that microwave isn't a credible refridgerator.


by Lucas O'Connor on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:34:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

News outlet (none / 0)

Imus isn't a credible news outlet. The Daily Show isn't a credible news outlet. But they are outlets, the same as FOX News. FOX News has a right to exist and they have a large audience relative to other cable outlets.

I agree that it's bad to host debates on FOX News and that the party should have nothing to do with a FOX News co-sponsored debate.

But I have legitimate questions on how the CBC Institute's non-profit legal status plays in to making this decision. FOX News is an awful venue for Democrats but it's a stretch to say FOX News isn't a news outlet.

I'll stipulate FOX sucks. What I want to know is how the CBC Institute's non-profit status effects the debate.


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:46:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: News outlet (none / 0)

Your assertion makes no sense.

Fox "News" is the only "outlet" from your list of examples that presents itself as, and claims to be a news organization.

A news organization does not distribute talking point memos on how to spin events to make the rethugs look better and the Democrats worse, or make unbased assertions (O'bama attending a Madrassa) only about the Democratic candidates, or display an obvious bias when challenge Democrats with questions they never ask rethugs.

I do question there right to exist under this blatant misuse of the public airwaves. If they identified themselves as who they are there would be no problem.


by julienb on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 02:56:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: News outlet (none / 0)

meant to say "challenging" Democrats


by julienb on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 02:57:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: News outlet (none / 0)

There is no fair use doctrine anymore so of course FOX News has the right to exist as is (GOP hacks).

You are arguing about ethical and political distinctions - I'm arguing about legal distinctions - there is no legal definition for 'news' - only publication (broadcast). FOX has the right to publish/broadcast. They have no legal obligation to be balanced or fair. I'm not sure how the non-partisan CBC Institute can decide on their own that FOX is unsuitable politically for a Demcoratic debate. I don't think Democrats should participate in the debate but it may be stupid and ill-informed to stamp your feet and blame the CBC Institute for being poltically naive when their tax status prohibits them from acting politically.

I'm not a lawyer and I'm trying to find out. It's not very productive to repeat endlessly how bad FOX sucks. How bad FOX sucks (A: a lot) is not the issue, at least not on this blog.


"Nothing seems to embarrass the political class today." - Bill Moyers
by joejoejoe on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 03:08:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: News outlet (none / 0)

Your comparison was still faulty.

None of the outlets you compared Fox to purport to be news organizations. If you had compared Fox to CNN, MSNBC, PBS, etc then it would have made sense.

There is a legal standard, but it is vague - a FCC license renewal can be denied if the licensee fails to serve the public interest, necessity, or convenience. This review, with an open period for public input, only happens every 8 years.

It does not serve the public interest to have an organization claiming to be fair and balanced to actually be an operative of a political party.

The University of Maryland at Annenberg published a peer-reviewed study that showed Fox viewers were twice as likely to believe factually untrue things like WMD have been found and Saddam was involved in 911; as compared to viewers who received their news elsewhere.

The list of factual differences between Fox and other news organizations goes on and on such that a compelling case could be made that by journalistic standards and common understanding of what "news" is (and as defined in the dictionary) that Fox could be forced to redefine itself to what it actually is, an opinion network, or face loss of license.

Of course I realize this is a pipe dream because we, the people, and the rightful owners of the airwaves have no powerful advocate or organized collective effort significant enough to advocate forcefully for this to happen. Also, as the above article illustrates, the forces against us are very powerful, especially when members of the Democratic party are enabling Fox.


by julienb on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 03:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What the hell is an outlet? (none / 0)

Imus doesn't profess to be a news source. The Daily Show doesn't profess to be a news source. FOX NEWS (note the use of the word NEWS) does.

Have the waters of journalistic integrity become so polluted by politics that we are now forced to start including Imus or The Comedy Channel or Rush Limbaugh or Glen Beck or my crotchety Uncle Joe as news "outlets"?


by Beonda Pale on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 03:57:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Well, it's been 24 hrs. since the CBC announcement.  This morning the Rev. Jackson denounced the partnership with Fox Noise . . .

Why hasn't any candidate said No to Fox yet?  Why the dithering?


by McFrederick on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:47:24 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (3.00 / 4)

I continue to be amazed at how corrupt the system is and how mydd and other blogs are saving our country.  Keep up the great work.


by dag1023 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 06:58:39 PM EST

So what happens (none / 0)

when these bastards migrate to teh Intarweb when our presence is large enough to make a consistent difference in elections and corporate governance?

Can they drown us out with thousands of BS sites and posts and videos etc.? How will people know who to trust?


by MasonMcD on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

westside stadium and ny city charter (none / 0)

Perspective

"The Glover Park Group has been at the center of some of the biggest policy debates in New York City in recent years. Partners from the firm have been involved in helping organize campaigns against two projects favored by Michael R. Bloomberg, the city's Republican mayor: revamping the city charter and building a stadium for the New York Jets on the West Side of Manhattan."

And who are the Bloomberg Democrats or the Bronx machine that you refer to?  In those 2 fights the Glover folks were on the right side if my memory serves me against Bloomberg and working for the party.

The entire Democratic community of New York was against Mayor Bloomberg's plan to give away valuable City land for far less than what it was worth to the Jets; and the Democratic community was also against the Bloomberg power grab in his attempted charter revisions which would have destroyed the right of the Democratic party to choose their own nominees.

The rest is true but don't swat at the things that the party worked against in NY.


by debcoop on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 07:18:09 PM EST

Re: westside stadium and ny city charter (none / 0)

In those 2 fights the Glover folks were on the right side if my memory serves me against Bloomberg and working for the party.

true enough
they were doing good work, fighting Bloomberg when he needed fighting


by Alice Marshall on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:39:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

All I can say is one hell of an article.  This type of thing is why blogs have replaced newspapers, TV, and magazines as my information source.  Great story Matt.  Thanks.


Follow the money
by dkmich on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 07:23:40 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Just so you know Murdoch hosted a fundraiser for Schumer. He hates both Schumer and Clinton, the only reason he hosted those fundraisers is because News Corp is based in NYC. You don't really believe that Murdoch supports Clinton or that Fox News would ever give her positive coverage, right??

Because that's just fucking crazy!!


by bsavage on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 07:38:08 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Given Ailes tastless jokes about Clinton, we have to suppose NewsCorp is anti-Clinton


by Alice Marshall on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:40:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Maybe he likes her for things like the Telecommunications Act of 96.  The Clinton's are economic conservatives that have been good to Murdock in many ways, but like a lot of rich people they have a lifestyle that drives middle America nuts.  Their marriage is probably not sexual, since Bill Clinton has been twice caught having affairs.   Most ordinary Americans don't do this and couldn't if they wanted to, they don't attract women like rock stars, like Bill Clinton does. It is just Murdock's way of picking the candidates on both sides that will be favorable to him.  If Clinton's alt lifestyle proves to much, the republicans can demagogue it and extract concessions from the Clintons or win seats.  Murdock can't lose.  

Tony Blair has been very nice to Murdock in Britain, actively taking his side in an effort to break up the BBC and in takeovers of various newspapers, so it seems to be a trend with third way politicians.  


Dameocrat Blog also Stray Roots Messageboard
by Dameocrat on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I'm interested in your evidence that Murdock hates Clinton and Schumer? A few specific examples would clear this up for me.


by anothergreenbus on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

You should send this article to the dem candidates and see if this can go mainstream. And we need to make sure Hillary is not the nominee and the Clinton power will go down.


by vwcat on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:23:08 PM EST

More Inside (none / 0)

I don't need to see all this on the front page.  One paragraph and then {more inside} is sufficient.

I remember when I used to be able to see four or five posts on the front screen at one time here.  Between posts like these and inline video and graphics it has become a scrolling nightmare.

Frankly, when I see a post this long I just skip it.

Thoughts from an old (young) curmudgeon.


by PghArch on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:25:02 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I think this article is very important.  And it needs to get out to the mainstream public at large so they know what a slime Hillary really is.


by vwcat on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:28:26 PM EST

Don't let Murdoch do to the Democrats (3.00 / 1)

what he did to the Labor Party.


by Alice Marshall on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:34:49 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Seems like there's a point here, but stuff like Vote or Die, Americans Coming Together in there as well, just makes it all seem hyperbolic. I'm sure we'll get the nutshell in the next round, sounds like good stuff.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 08:39:14 PM EST

If Hillary Clinton wins the nomination... (none / 0)

...then Democrats already will have lost the general election, no matter who wins in November 2008.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:09:09 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (1.50 / 2)

I'm sorry, but I thought this wasn't a conspiracy site.  So we have former Clinton, former Gore, former Kerry, former Clark, current Clinton advisers  who colluded with Dems, Republicans, Jesse, and the NAACP to support News Corps over Nielsen, so ergo Hillary is responsible for the current CBC decision how?


by Kingstongirl on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:09:51 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

It's always Hillary's fault, isn't it?  If the world stopped spinning on its axis, it would be Hillary's fault.  Is Hillary's fault that Mrs. Edward's cancer came back?  Did she work her voodoo and black stick on Mrs. Edwards and make her sick? Please, spare me with this shit.  You people act like you personally know Hillary or something.  We've got far more important things to worry about. Like the fact if we don't take back the White House in 2008, we are going to be stuck with a Conservative Supreme Court for very long time.  Let's start thinking clearly fellow Progressives. There is far more important shit to talk about, like the stupid asses that got us into this war (Bush, Cheney, their cronies and the wimpish MSM). And yes, before you ask, I'm a Hillary supporter!!!


by lonnette33 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Let's start thinking clearly fellow Progressives

I don't think Hillary claims to be a progressive.

There is far more important shit to talk about, like the stupid asses that got us into this war (Bush, Cheney, their cronies and the wimpish MSM)

Also the wimpish mainstream Democrats that voted to give Bush a blank check and want to keep permanent military bases in Iraq.

And yes, before you ask, I'm a Hillary supporter!!

and givin your objection to the war, why would you be a Hillary supporter?  Hillary is very prowar.

We have good reasons for not supporting her in the primary.  


Dameocrat Blog also Stray Roots Messageboard
by Dameocrat on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 06:36:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Fellow Progressives,

I feel your pain. I am upset with Hillary's war vote to. With Schumer's vote with Edward's vote. With everyone who voted for it.  Obama had the luxury of not having to vote on the war. I am not giving Hillary a pass. She screwed up (BIG TIME), but so did a lot of others. My point is; are we going to keep talking about shit (the war vote)?  We're in Iraq; we can not change the past. I'm not going to support a "Clinton Cabal" and down another Democrat to raise another.  I'm not an Obama supporter. But I'm not going to help bring him down either. Both are good people.  My first choice is Gore. For whatever selfish reason, he chooses not to run. The next best thing is Clinton. If Clinton falters, than I am for Edwards.  Obama has yet to verbalize a plan for getting America out of this shit Bush has gotten us into.  I am tried of hearing about this "HOPE" shit.  He does not have a plan.  Let me also tell you. I am an African-American and I am not going to support him just to support him.  He got to prove himself just like everybody else. I'm not giving him a pass because we share the same skin color and becasue he speaks eloquently. We've got to start thinking more clearly people.  If you choose other Democrats to support, I can respect that, but to intentionally try to bring down another "Liberal" is inconceivable.  Don't we have those dumb ass Republicans for that and right leaning media. I don't buy this liberal media bias.


by lonnette33 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 02:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

She isn't sorry for her vote and as I showed, she intends to keep the war going, by keeping military bases there.  Edwards has promised no military bases and Obama ran against the war and won fabulously so the politically stupid like Hillary are for the war.  She is last on my list behind virtually every other democrat for this reason and no she isn't a liberal either.


Dameocrat Blog also Stray Roots Messageboard
by Dameocrat on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 11:39:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

#1. I really don't care what Edwards or Obama say now; THERE are going to be permanent bases in IRAQ. Why you might ask; the Israeli Lobby. At least Clinton is being honest. You are fooling yourself if you think Edwards and Obama are being candid.

#2. So what if she hasn't apologized for the vote. You people would hold it against her and say she is trying to gain more support by apologizing. She's doing the right thing by NOT APOLOGIZING. I am tried of hearing about this bullshit. YOU would still NOT like her or VOTE for her. What DIFFERENCE does an apology make? Why don't you ask all the other DEMOCRATS that voted for the war to "apologize"? You people hold the Clinton's to a different standard. Why don't you lobby all the Republican's that voted for war to apologize?  Give me a break!!!! This subject is getting SOO OLD!!


by lonnette33 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 12:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I do demand that other Democrats apologize.  Edwards did, and Obama has nothing to apologize for.  The Israeli lobby isn't a dictator of this country unless you are a conspiracy theorist.

Unless you have esp, you can't know the future, so your claims that they will leave military bases there despite the fact that they said they aren't are suspect.  It really isn't anything personal against her, I just don't like her political positions period.


Dameocrat Blog also Stray Roots Messageboard
by Dameocrat on Mon Apr 02, 2007 at 09:47:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Ah...in your world, mindlessly being a royalist equals thinking. Got it. You live in irony land.


by ElitistJohn on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 10:43:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Unbelievable.  The chronology of events makes sense to me now.  What an incredible conflict of interest on behalf of several people still claiming the mantle of Democrat insider while profiting off of their willingness to undercut their fellow travelers for cold hard cash.

This is sufficient reason enough for me to oppose Hillary in the primary in favor of any viable alternative.  It also explains why Murdoch is hosting fundraisers for her.

Talk about 20 pieces of silver!  On behalf of the house propaganda organ of the Repuglican party, no less!

DLC = "principles" make a great sales pitch to all the suckers.


by chrisp on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 09:57:48 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me.


by proudtobeliberal on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:00:52 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I'm glad when folks follow the money. We need these kinds of stories. Politico or not...is the story true? Glad for the information.


by rikyrah on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 10:06:50 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

is the story true?

In early '04, Nielsen did a test run w/ PMs in the NYC market, where results for certain shows on UPN, classified as minority programs, suffered in viewership ratings as compared to paper diaries. Reasons were unclear.

Early on, several minority broadcast interests were concerned but did not have the clout, organization to pursue this. Enter Fox/News Corp (with interests in UPN) who launched an agressive political strategy vs Nielsen that included a  'grassroots' effort launched by the astroturf Dont Count Us Out Coalition.

Rangel was successful in bringing about a temporary halt to a full-scale PM rollout in the NY market in early '04, pending investigation/clarification from Nielsen. This was largely before the full-blown News Corp/DCUOC PR war vs Nielsen.

Mfume's support of Nielsen came about much later in the year. Unfortunately, I can't find the attribution for the blockquote that begins "Sen Clinton was proud to join with the NAACP ..." in the diary, but I believe you'll find that by the end of '04, Nielsen was winning the PR war and had satisfied most parties (including the NY delegation) that they were  methodically researching variations between paper diaries and People Meters. Nobody argued that electric capture, in principal, shouldn't be more reliable/accurate than paper diaries.

By early '05, Nielsen Research did find that in some markets, the 'fault rates' in using the electronic device were particularly high for large families (user error -- not everyone in the family got counted while using the device) which they offered as an explanation as to why minority households (which tended to larger families) in some cases might be undercounted.

What is true is that News Corp probably did not have any interest in diversity or protecting minority interests, but rather, their own financial interests, leading to an unlikely coalition of News Corp/minority broadcasters.

What is also true is that this coalition utilized particularly aggressive PR strategies that in the long run, undermined their credibility.

What is iffy in my mind, is why anyone should leap to the defense of Nielsen initially. They have a monopoly on the tv rating system and any variation upon a change in methodology needs to be explained to customers, period. Unfortunately, the minority broadcasters with a legitimate interest in this were overshadowed by the tactics/reputation of News Corp, forcing folks to take sides. What could have been settled in a simpler, more cooperative fashion, turned into a full-scale PR war.

The final leap to HRC's responsibility in the CBC/Fox agreement to hold debates for '08 (let's add '04, while we are at it) is equally unclear in my mind.


by dblhelix on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 09:18:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary = Fox (2.00 / 2)

I think it is important to look at who benefits from these Fox debates and who loses. My intuition regarding the Nevada debate led me to state that Hillary = Fox. Their interests are converging. This proves it.

Hillary and Fox are both dead set on getting a Democratic primary debate because it will benefit them both. First it weakens Obama badly because if he shows up--he has been brought to heel on a network that openly ridicules him. If Obama pulls out on his own he will be harmed badly. He will be called "not black enough" or ashamed to participate in a CBC debate. Similarly, Edwards will look like an also-ran if he backs out on his own. After Nevada, if he debates, he will be a flip-flopper or whatever.

If three candidates turn Fox down the debate will collapse and that would be the end of it. Obama, Edwards...would Richardson pull out? I won't hold my breath.

Hillary is almost as good as Rove.


by anothergreenbus on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:02:36 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Are you freaking kiddin' me.  The interview was set-up.  What are you smokin'?  I know you can't be serious!!!


by lonnette33 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:12:24 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I don't believe this story for one bit. There is no way in hell this story will run in the MSM.   Sane people won't give this story a second look. Maybe you should try Fox aka Faux News. Or even better Drudge Report!!!


by lonnette33 on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:20:30 PM EST

Wow (none / 0)

I wish I could think of something more productive to say, but "wow" pretty much captures it.

At least I won't feel guilty about not supporting Clinton anymore.


by cerebrocrat on Fri Mar 30, 2007 at 11:26:19 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Yet another reason to vote Green.  The Green Party doesn't accept ANY corporate money, and represents CITIZENS' interests.

The only reason these corporate politicians continue to get away with this corruption is that the rubes continue to vote for them!  


by Alan8 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 01:57:02 AM EST

Spoken Like A True Republican! (none / 0)

Remember Florida, 2000!


by Paul Rosenberg on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 03:15:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Where have I heard of Dewey Square before?  Oh yeah, weren't they the guys who Rahm brought in to save the 2006 from Howard Dean's "folly" of a 50 state strategy?


by Flatiron Dante on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 02:09:58 AM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

that would be "the Democrats in the 2006 elections"


by Flatiron Dante on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 02:11:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (3.00 / 2)

Obviously Fox is just one horrible piece of the compromised Democratic puzzle.  Dewey Square and Hillary Clinton lurk in the background of "Selling Wal-Mart," the current New Yorker story that details the core hypocrisy of Beltway Democrats.   Dewey Square has been nabbed in the past for doing Wal-Mart work realted to Wal-Mart facility siting.  Wal-Mart board member Clinton orchestrated the quiet compromise of a generation of Democratic operatives.  

There's no disclosure requirement for that political whoring.  But groups like Dewey Square make more money on their Fox and Wal-Mart and anti-Net Neurtality work than they do from campaigns.  Yet they pay no price for that inside the Democratic Party.  As has been noted before, Dewey Square and its principal Mike Whouley actually had a comparatively bad record coaching priority races in 2006.  But they're are deadly effective in their work for the Foxes and Wal-Marts.


by StewD on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 07:43:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/30/ 13834/5607

When did you stop beating your wife? Fox debate questions

Fri Mar 30, 2007


by dearreader on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 04:30:53 AM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Hiya.

I would be grateful for a wee touch of journalistic copyediting. I got as far as paragraph three (including the quotation). You don't introduce News Corp. I didn't get how they related to Fox and Nielsen. You don't mention Ms. Whiting's affiliation. There is no date. No doubt I could have looked at the "front story" by following the hyperlinks, but my pupils narrowed, my breathing deepened, and I fell into a swoon.


by Christian Herold on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 01:08:02 PM EST

Glad to see dems taking a stand on this (none / 0)

whether this debate comes off or not, the Nevada debate shows that at least the dems are starting to see what they should have been doing since day one...not lend their credibility to lying Republican propaganda - mind manipulation - outlets.

I wonder how many democrats show up to honor Sun Myung Moon's propaganda mouthpiece, The Washington Times, at its 25th birthday party in May.

In 2002 several blind rationalizing fools in the party actually let Moon use their names as part of the "host" committee for Moon's extremist paper's birthday party.

I understand Kerry, though he didn't go to the dinner, lent his name as part of a deal to get the WT to print an op-ed he wrote on the environment. Kerry felt it was the best way to get his message to the Republican lawmakers. Think about that, a U.S. Senator felt the need to go through Sun Myung Moon just to communicate with Republicans. Kucinich's people said they thought he went because he was hanging out with members of the black caucus, some of whom attended. (Moon has worked hard to gather black ministers into his web and through them he is reaching members of the black caucus - case in point Danny Davis participating in the Moon crowning.)

Why do democrats honor Moon and his "ongoing criminal enterprise"?

And here's list of who lent their names to honor Sun Myung Moon's efforts in 2002.

Why democrats can't see how stupid and short sighted this is, I do not know. At least the Republicans get something in return for their souls.

by Hop Scotch on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 01:28:30 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

Fellow Progressives,

I feel your pain. I am upset with Hillary's war vote to. With Schumer's vote with Edward's vote. With everyone who voted for it.  Obama had the luxury of not having to vote on the war. I am not giving Hillary a pass. She screwed up (BIG TIME), but so did a lot of others. My point is; are we going to keep talking about shit (the war vote)?  We're in Iraq; we can not change the past. I'm not going to support a "Clinton Cabal" and down another Democrat to raise another.  I'm not an Obama supporter. But I'm not going to help bring him down either. Both are good people.  My first choice is Gore. For whatever selfish reason, he chooses not to run. The next best thing is Clinton. If Clinton falters, than I am for Edwards.  Obama has yet to verbalize a plan for getting America out of this shit Bush has gotten us into.  I am tried of hearing about this "HOPE" shit.  He does not have a plan.  Let me also tell you. I am an African-American and I am not going to support him just to support him.  He got to prove himself just like everybody else. I'm not giving him a pass because we share the same skin color and becasue he speaks eloquently. We've got to start thinking more clearly people.  If you choose other Democrats to support, I can respect that, but to intentionally try to bring down another "Liberal" is inconceivable.  Don't we have those dumb ass Republicans for that and right leaning media. I don't buy this liberal media bias.


by lonnette33 on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 02:37:24 PM EST

I Left the Dems for the Greens (none / 0)

... in the 1990s over shit like this and the pro-corporate, anti-people policies that result from a party run by the Clintonistas and their ilk.

I'm delighted (truly) to see Democrats upset about this kind of crap.  

So the question is: how do you root such people out from the leadership of a political party?


by GreenSooner on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 04:04:20 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (3.00 / 1)

"You don't really believe that Murdoch supports Clinton or that Fox News would ever give her positive coverage, right??"

"Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me."

I think you're both being naïve. It is a conspiracy - for power and wealth.  Murdoch will go wherever his bread is going to get buttered. Assuming Republicans are still sucking wind come next November, don't you think he'd rather see Clinton get the White House over, say, John Edwards? From the corporatist perspective, that sort of calculation is a no-brainer (take that however you like).


by shep on Sat Mar 31, 2007 at 05:13:15 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

I believe that if Fox News is allowed into the CBC convention, the CBC should allow the other fake news channel, Comedy Central, to attend as well.  We should all just start lumping Faux "News" in with all the other spoof channels.  Whenever a Fox News "reporter" pops up, there should be a Daily Show "reporter" right beside them, to prove a point...


by indigo6390 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 11:40:35 AM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

By the way, remember the 2000 elections?  I heard the phrase "Lesser of Two Evils" often back then, and now it seems that we're in the same boat when it comes to election choices.  I don't think Obama is equipped to handle the presidency, I think Hillary is a phony crooked evil woman, Edwards is a pussified joke...  We need a good strong leadership figure, a dark horse, to show himself or herself in the next year.  Obama's not gonna be able fix things, Hillary would pull pretty much the same shit Bush pulled, but she'll hide it better, and Edwards is a stuffed suit.  Our once-proud nation truly is crumbling before our eyes...


by indigo6390 on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 11:47:20 AM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

How does Murdoch's fundraiser for Clinton fit this timeline?


by Scarabus on Sun Apr 01, 2007 at 12:31:09 PM EST

Re: The Tacky Clintonista-CBC-Fox News Backstory (none / 0)

i1 i2 i3 i4 i5 i6 i7 i8 i9 i10 i11 i12 i13 i14 i15 i16 i17 i18 i19 i20 i21 i22 i23 i24 i25 i26 i27 i28 i29 i30 i31 i32 i33 i34 i35 i36 i37 i38 i39 i40 i41 i42 i43 i44 i45 i46 i47 i48 i49 i50 i51 i52 i53 i54 i55 i56 i57 i58 i59 i60 i61 i62 i63 i64 i65 i66 i67 i68 i69 i70 i71 i72 i73 i74 i75 i76 i77 i78 i79 i80 i81 i82 i83 i84 i85 i86 i87 i88 i89 i90 i91 i92 i93 i94 i95 i96 i97 i98 i99 i100 i101 i102 i103 i104 i105 i106 i107 i108 i109 i110 i111 i112 i113 i114 i115 i116 i117 i118 i119 i120 i121 i122 i123 i124 i125 i126 i127 i128 i129 i130 i131 i132 i133 i134 i135 i136 i137 i138 i139 i140 i141 i142 i143 i144 i145 i146 i147 i148 i149 i150 i151 i152 i153 i154 i155 i156 i157 i158 i159 i160 i161 i162 i163 i164


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