What Really Makes A Democrat Electable in 2008: Total Withdrawal From Iraq

Taegan Goddard reminds us of this jewel from the managers of McCain, Romney, and Giuliani's campaigns:
The campaign advisers of three Republican presidential nominee hopefuls agreed yesterday at the Institute of Politics that the war in Iraq would be one of the defining issues of the presidential campaign.

The three men--senior campaign advisers for Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Mitt Romney--also discussed some of the issues surrounding their candidates in the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum.

"The idea that somehow people can go out and win the Republican nomination by talking about other issues and... not making [the Iraq war] the central theme of this debate is naive," said Rick Davis, CEO and senior adviser for the McCain campaign.

"You're either there fighting to win or you get out, and you don't really try to have it both ways," he added.

Chris Henick, Giuliani's senior adviser, agreed that security and leadership were important factors in the race.

"America has got to remain a leader in the world, a force for peace and security," Henick said. "Who's going to lead a stronger country in the future?"

While the advisers agreed on Iraq, moderator Mark Halperin '87, the political director of ABC News, pushed them to discuss other issues.
That's cute that Halperin was the moderator of the forum. Goddard adds:
When the managers of the Republican presidential campaigns gathered at Harvard earlier this month, they agreed that the Iraq war would be the defining issue in 2008 -- see The Crimson's coverage -- and that the Republican party's base would not accept a candidate who did not at least agree with the administration's policy goals. A viable GOP candidate could criticize the management of the war, but not the need for the war.
Every leading contender for the 2008 Republican nomination intends to make supporting a continuing war in Iraq the centerpiece of their campaign. Strange that they somehow forgot running in favor of the war resulted in Republicans being crushed in 2006. I can only imagine how popular that position will be eighteen months from now. I'd say that this made me extremely confident about the 2008 elections, but we are dealing with a Democratic establishment that, in many cases, either does not believe Iraq will still be a central political issue in 2008, or that wants to continue the military mission in Iraq themselves. This means that while the 2008 presidential election should be an easy slam dunk for Democrats, we could yet blow it.

John McCain's once virtually spotless national image took a serious tumble last fall, when he vociferously argued in favor of escalation in Iraq. The same thing could easily happen to Rudy Giuliani, since he holds exactly the same positions as John McCain. And Mitt Romney? Good luck ever having a positive national image, if you come out hard in favor of endless war now. The fact is, that unless Democrats in Congress somehow manage to end the war before the 2008 election, Iraq will remain the central political issue in America. Further, the long it drags on, the less popular the war becomes. In order to win the 2008 election, every Democratic contender does not need to do much more than pledge to withdraw all troops--including "trainers"--from Iraq within six months of taking office. Who is willing to do that? Who has done that? The only candidates who can truly consider themselves "electable" are candidates who can answer "I have" to both of those questions.



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Re: What Really Makes A Democrat Electable... (none / 0)

I understand that Hillary Clinton intends to leave troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future. I heard Bill Richardson tonight saying he would withdraw all troops. I know Dennis Kucinich favors full withdrawal.

Can someone please summarize, preferably with linked references, what, if anything, Barack Obama, John Edwards and other candidates have said publicly regarding their intent to withdraw troops (combat and otherwise)completely and not retain any permanent US bases in Iraq?

Thanks.


by HeartlandDem on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 09:18:02 PM EST

Re: What Really Makes A Democrat ... (none / 0)

HomeDiariesBreaking BlueE-Wire 2008What Really Makes A Democrat Electable in 2008: Total Withdrawal From Iraq
by Chris Bowers, Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 08:00:32 PM EST

Taegan Goddard reminds us of this jewel from the managers of McCain, Romney, and Giuliani's campaigns:
The campaign advisers of three Republican presidential nominee hopefuls agreed yesterday at the Institute of Politics that the war in Iraq would be one of the defining issues of the presidential campaign.

The three men--senior campaign advisers for Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, and Mitt Romney--also discussed some of the issues surrounding their candidates in the John F. Kennedy Jr. Forum.

"The idea that somehow people can go out and win the Republican nomination by talking about other issues and... not making [the Iraq war] the central theme of this debate is naive," said Rick Davis, CEO and senior adviser for the McCain campaign.

"You're either there fighting to win or you get out, and you don't really try to have it both ways," he added.

Chris Henick, Giuliani's senior adviser, agreed that security and leadership were important factors in the race.

"America has got to remain a leader in the world, a force for peace and security," Henick said. "Who's going to lead a stronger country in the future?"

While the advisers agreed on Iraq, moderator Mark Halperin '87, the political director of ABC News, pushed them to discuss other issues.
That's cute that Halperin was the moderator of the forum. Goddard adds:
When the managers of the Republican presidential campaigns gathered at Harvard earlier this month, they agreed that the Iraq war would be the defining issue in 2008 -- see The Crimson's coverage -- and that the Republican party's base would not accept a candidate who did not at least agree with the administration's policy goals. A viable GOP candidate could criticize the management of the war, but not the need for the war.
Every leading contender for the 2008 Republican nomination intends to make supporting a continuing war in Iraq the centerpiece of their campaign. Strange that they somehow forgot running in favor of the war resulted in Republicans being crushed in 2006. I can only imagine how popular that position will be eighteen months from now. I'd say that this made me extremely confident about the 2008 elections, but we are dealing with a Democratic establishment that, in many cases, either does not believe Iraq will still be a central political issue in 2008, or that wants to continue the military mission in Iraq themselves. This means that while the 2008 presidential election should be an easy slam dunk for Democrats, we could yet blow it.

John McCain's once virtually spotless national image took a serious tumble last fall, when he vociferously argued in favor of escalation in Iraq. The same thing could easily happen to Rudy Giuliani, since he holds exactly the same positions as John McCain. And Mitt Romney? Good luck ever having a positive national image, if you come out hard in favor of endless war now. The fact is, that unless Democrats in Congress somehow manage to end the war before the 2008 election, Iraq will remain the central political issue in America. Further, the long it drags on, the less popular the war becomes. In order to win the 2008 election, every Democratic contender does not need to do much more than pledge to withdraw all troops--including "trainers"--from Iraq within six months of taking office. Who is willing to do that? Who has done that? The only candidates who can truly consider themselves "electable" are candidates who can answer "I have" to both of those questions.

Tags: Iraq, Republicans, President 2008, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Rudy Giuliani, electability, Democrats (all tags)

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  Re: What Really Makes A Democrat Electable... (none / 0)

I understand that Hillary Clinton intends to leave troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future. I heard Bill Richardson tonight saying he would withdraw all troops. I know Dennis Kucinich favors full withdrawal.

Can someone please summarize, preferably with linked references, what, if anything, Barack Obama, John Edwards and other candidates have said publicly regarding their intent to withdraw troops (combat and otherwise)completely and not retain any permanent US bases in Iraq?

Thanks.


by HeartlandDem on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 09:19:45 PM EST

Did Richardson Really say that? (none / 0)

I thought he was smarter than that.

Or did he just mean disengaged from the Civil War?

Cause that, actually, is the smart thing to do.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 10:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Richardson Really say that? (none / 0)

He said he would not leave any troops in Iraq, and did not include the qualifier "combat" when referring to the troops he would withdraw.


by HeartlandDem on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:16:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow (none / 0)

I don't agree with that.

wether we like it or not, there's going to be enough terrorist activity remaining in iraq to merit a continued presence.  local at that.

if richardson's position is that that terrorist activity won't merit a continued presence, then i'm still going to hold out hope we heard him incorrectly.

he seems like a very smart leader.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not one single troop left in Iraq (none / 0)

Total withdrawal.

Sorry.  Unrealistic, and naive!

I can't wait for Obama and Edwards to stake out that electoral territory!!!  That's the day we declare the Primary ovah!!!!!!!


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 10:10:53 PM EST

Re: Not one single troop left in Iraq (none / 0)

Yeah, because our troop presence in Iraq has worked out so well to date.

So, what do you support--a permanent American military presence in Iraq? If you are against total withdrawal, sure sounds like it.
by Chris Bowers on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

false choice (3.00 / 1)

you're either for withdrawal of every last troop or you're for permanent occupation/colonization.

we must be for permanent occupation and colonization of afghanistan.

listen.  i'm sorry to be such a dick about this, but i do think you're being daft or naive.  

some american troops are going to remain.

maybe you missed gov. schweitzer's interview on charlie rose a couple weeks ago.  we have interests there both as far as security is concerned.  counter-terrorism.  and, yes. sorry. oil.

we do not have alternative fuel yet.  if we did, then the only reason left to remain would be for counter terrorism.

our troop presence has not worked out to date simply because we are being played by both sides of a civil war.  we are attempting to enforce a military solution on a civil war.  that is wrong.  that is folly.  that is a huge mistake!!!

But. this is what anti-war activists refuse, on ideological grounds alone, to consider:  we can easily and absolutely extricate ourselves from that mission without removing every single troop.

you have offered a false choice.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:33:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: false choice (none / 0)

For how long will some American troops remain? Forever? If not, then you too are for total withdrawal.

It is not a false choice. Either you want some American troops in Iraq forever, or you eventually want total withdrawal.

You can quibble over the length of their stay, the amount who stay, the rate at which they should be withdrawn, and what they should do when they are there. But it is not a false choice to say that you either want at least some American troops in Iraq forever, or you are in favor of all of them eventually leaving. And Democrats should take the later position.
by Chris Bowers on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:38:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well then hell (none / 0)

we're all for total withdrawal then.

if that's the definition, even the republican candidates are for total withdrawal in, say, 30 years!

nothing lasts forever!


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well then hell (none / 0)

No, they are not. They all want permanent bases. This has been made clear on several occasions. In many ways, that was the point of the war: a permanent, American military presence in southern Iraq. I assume that is what you mean by the "serious," non-naive position.

You are one of those "serious" people--aren't you? I mean, you end you handle with five e's, but the main difference between you and Democrats who disagree with you is that you are serious, while we are naive, right?
by Chris Bowers on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:44:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"There's no such thing as Permanent" (none / 0)

don't take an idiot blogger who puts too many e's on the end of his name's word for it!

http://www.juancole.com/2006/02/nearly-2 -dozen-dead-in-attacks-us-uk.html

Scotland on Sunday reports that there are secret British plans to keep a small base near Baghdad with a few hundred troops. It says that the US plans a base outside Baghdad. Some fear that the US and the UK plan to use the bases as leverage for their longterm involvement in the Iraqi petroleum industry. The British base would have a fig leaf as a training facility, it is suggested.

Bases can be important pivots for foreign intervention. The RAF base at Habbaniyah was used that way by Britain in the early twentieth century, and it spearheaded the British recolonization of Iraq during World War II when it successfully resisted an attack by officers who had made a pro-Axis coup.

But I personally doubt that there will still be a US or UK base in Iraq in 10 years. I have probably said this before, but there are no such things as permanent military bases in other countries (the referenced report has "permanent" in its headline). One country can keep a base in another country only by mutual consent. None of the army bases I grew up on still exists, in France or Eritrea. Wheelus Air Force base in Libya is a dim memory. The US naval bases in the Philippines, which seemed eternal, are gone. If the Iraqi parliament asks the UK and the US to leave, they will have to. Japan and South Korea have not done so mainly because of fear of powerful neighbors. No similar dynamic now exists in the Gulf region; Iraqi politicians are not afraid of their neighbors and don't think they need the UK and the US to protect them. Even if Grand Ayatollah Sistani just gave a fatwa against US/UK bases, that would probably be the end of them.

your "permanent bases" thing is a political football for the anti-war left.

there's no such thing.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:50:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "There's no such thing as Permanent" (none / 0)

Two words: Guantanamo Bay Besides, it makes no difference what the populace of Iraq thinks with regard to US military bases, only what the government of Iraq thinks. And that's a much easier group to keep onside and not (generally) the group carrying out attacks on US and UK troops. I'm not implacably opposed to the idea of training forces, provided they are just that rather than combat forces by another name, but there's no reason why counter-terrorism has to be carried out by Americans (not even humanitarian, given the backsliding of the past decade in that respect) and troops to protect oil are not needed, because any Iraqi government will want to sell oil on the international market, as it's too important a source of oil not to.
Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 09:49:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's some more info on the topic (none / 0)

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid= -5308196622692748202

I really hope I don't know what I'm talking about.

Wouldn't it be better if I didn't???!!!


by Stewieeeee on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 12:18:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not one single troop left in Iraq (none / 0)

Thanks for this comment Chris. What I particularly want to know is whether either Obama or Edwards has spoken specifically regarding full pullout and permanent bases. I favor the withdrawal, with no bases kept. I consider continued occupation both tactically unsustainable and morally wrong.


by HeartlandDem on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 10:20:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not one single troop left in Iraq (none / 0)

Oh yeah--and naive? Do you hold an advanced degree in foreign policy or something? Please, wow us if your professional expertise.
by Chris Bowers on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 11:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What Really Makes A Democrat Electable in 2008 (none / 0)

What truly amazes me is how most Republican politicians are simply unable to see the trap they have fallen into by continuing to support the increasingly futile war in Iraq. Are they merely committing hara-kiri by burying themselves in the hot desert sand, from which they will never find a way to escape before the next election? Or do they believe, like McCain and Lieberman, that the war will ultimately turn for the better, and somehow rescue them from having made a bad judgement call. More likely, they will continue to act like heedless lemmings and follow their leaders till they plunge headlong into the chasm.  


by mobiusein on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 10:18:15 PM EST

Chris Bowers wrote: (none / 0)

"The only candidates who can truly consider themselves "electable" are candidates who can answer "I have" to both of those questions."

How can you make a point-blank statement like that?  We already have top-tier, electable candidates who would not answer "I have" to both of those questions.  Also, check the polls that continually ask Iraq related questions.  These polls do no support your assertions.

But you have made an excellent argument in support of Dennis Kucinich for President. Good luck with that.


by marasaud on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 07:56:29 AM EST

truth (none / 0)

Barack Obama has stated he would leave troops in Iraq if he becomes President.  But I have yet to hear ONE Dem candidate say he or she would set up "permanent" bases in Iraq.

You know, when bloggers start dealing in the truth instead of fantasy ... oh never mind.  It isn't going to happen.


by marasaud on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 08:01:24 AM EST

I want total withdrawal of US troops from (none / 0)

...Iraq.

I don't support the Hillary Clinton/Barack Obama concept of withdrawing troops EXCEPT for troops there for protection or fighting terrorists or training.

All the troops there now could be described that way.


by EricJaffa on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 10:57:36 AM EST

Re: I want total withdrawal of US troops from (none / 0)

Edwards says he is for total withdrawal of combat troops, but he wants to keep troops in the region to prevent spillover, genocide, etc.  How many troops is he planning on keeping for this and where is he practically going to keep the troops in order for them to effectively do what he is advocating?  I am also assuming that his combat troops withdrawal still leaves some American forces in Iraq to training the Iraqis or am I wrong?


by Kingstongirl on Thu Mar 29, 2007 at 08:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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