Experience is the New Electability

I'm not going to wade into the electability argument so much, since I think that whether a Democrat wins is a less important question than whether the country realigns around a progressive majority.  I also think that 'electability' as it was used in 2004 was a term exploited by insiders to scare primary voters into trusting their pick for President, and their pick was John Kerry and most definitely not an antiwar Howard Dean.

This year, the new term the establishment is using to steamroll over the progressive movement is 'experienced.'  I noticed it awhile back, but I didn't think much of it until I saw this Media Matters piece on the Politico and Drudge.

In an article appearing in The Politico's March 27 print edition, Politico chief political correspondent Mike Allen wrote that Sen. Barack Obama (D-IL) has "shown a tendency toward seemingly minor contradictions and rhetorical slips," characterized Obama's alleged inconsistencies as "trivial," and wrote that "the senator's rhetorical miscues have been more curiosities than obvious political blunders." Nonetheless, Allen stretched these alleged "trivial" inconsistencies into a 1,200-word article headlined, "Rookie Mistakes Plague Obama," which appeared on the front page of the print edition.

One of the hallmarks of a right-wing frame is that it plays into a set of well-known universal fears.  I've heard a number of Democrats express concern about Obama's experience in running campaigns.  I know have.  And the larger narrative about Democrats, which always centers on weakness, shines through when you consider our giant fear, which is that a candidate will not be strong enough, or experienced enough, to know when to fight back against the right or against our external enemies.

A lot of Senator Clinton's expressions, and her supporters, use her experience as a selling point.  Essentially, the argument is that she's been there before, and she knows what the right-wing will throw at her.  She's prepared for it, and no one else is.  The argument the right uses, which complements the Clinton camp's, is that no Democrat is prepared for what the world will throw at America.  We face threats, and it's important to have someone who has been there before and upon whom you can rely to parry them.  It's a simple turn of phrase to take this line, and argue that criticism by progressives of her overt militaristic instincts and her plan to keep troops in Iraq is just the kind of unserious and inexperienced strategy that people unworried by Iraq becoming a 'petri dish' for Al Qaeda would put forward.  Experience teaches you than the world is a dangerous place, dear.  This is also an inherently conservative frame, since the argument is that we should rely on that which has worked before.

The whole point of the 'experience' frame is to whitewash Clintonian complicity in Iraq and in the corporate takeover of our government from the early 1990s onward.  Lest we forget, it was Hillary Clinton who screwed up the universal health care debate, despite a massive public mandate for universal health care in the 1992 election and high public support for it.  It started off well, with her giving rock star like testimony in Congress, rattling off answers.  But then, Clinton just wanted desperately to cooperate with business interests and do health care without any organizing behind it, and these right-wing interests turned around and kicked her in the shin.  She was secretive and an abrasive manager, as well as reliant on policymakers with poor judgment.  And now she's running on the idea that she's experienced in health care, even as she has more corporate health care money in her campaign coffers than any other Senator and approximately zero major Senate accomplishments to her name in any arena foreign or domestic.  Sure that's experience, but it's experience at combing over bad judgment and poor political instincts.

Establishment insiders, especially in the foreign policy community, tend to have horrible, horrible judgment.  The bad ones are promoted and the good ones marginalized, by design.  A change in this design requires a change in leadership of the party, but that necessarily means new faces and new blood and a relatively lack of experience.  It's really a choice - do we want good judgment and a fresh perspective, or do we want deep experience screwing things up?

Don't be fooled by the experience frame, because it's coming from the right-wing hawks in both parties.  After all, Bush is now the most experienced wartime President alive today.  



Display:


Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

It's an obvious hit on Obama.  The 'new politics' is scaring the establishment.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:23:35 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Obama's "inexperience" is the analog of Dean's "anger."


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:35:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

I could be considered a hit on Obama and Edwards... neither is particularly experienced on the national scene.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:42:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And this here is obviously (none / 0)

a hit on hillary.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 04:58:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Progressive majority vs Hillary disaster (none / 0)

"I think that whether a Democrat wins is a less important question than whether the country realigns around a progressive majority."

I tend to agre and the problem is that Hillary as a candidate will not just mean a loss of the White House, but also a big defeat for progressivism and the Democratic Party. She could very well single handedly kill our party and the advantage that we currently have. She is an icon of everything that has been wrong about Democrats since the 60's: stiff, elitist, unlikeable, aloof and calculating.

We need a real populist who can connect with people, like Edwards. Or a charismatic energetic "rock star", like Obama. We do not need Hillary.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:28:32 PM EST

And to back that up: (none / 0)

http://thehill.com/campaign-2008/fifty-p ercent-of-americans-would-not-vote-for-c linton-2007-03-27.html

Half of Americans detest her. We have a problem here.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:31:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Progressive majority vs Hillary disaster (none / 0)

I agree that she will be a step backward for progressivism, but not because she is "stiff, elitist, unlikeable, aloof and calculating." It would be because she is to the right of the majority of Americans on Iraq and also on economic issues like trade and taxes.


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Progressive majority vs Hillary disaster (none / 0)

Yes she is clearly wrong on the issues. But so was Bush in 2004. Hillary is also unlikeable, and the combination of being wrong and unlikeable is fatal to say the least.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Progressive majority vs Hillary disaster (none / 0)

My point was that even if she wins, she will be a step backward for progressives. Nothing has energized the progressive movement like the very conservative Bush administration. Nothing will deflate it like a conservative Democrat in office. Just look at Bill Clinton's legacy.


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:40:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Progressive majority vs Hillary disaster (none / 0)

Agreed.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:43:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jim Webb? (none / 0)

Seems to me if you're looking for a true populist, Jim Webb is probably the best example we have these days.  How about a DRAFT WEBB movement?  He probably brighter than any candidate we're looking at, and he's certainly on point with his message of economic fairness.  

His proposal on revamping the GI Bill, if approved, would have radical effects on the underclass in this country, as so many of our soldiers come from smaller, often rural towns where economic and educational opportunity is disappearing.  He's a strong supporter of unions.  

There's not much I don't like about Webb.  I think he's the real deal, more than any candidate we're looking at now.  

I'm not so worried about experience as a factor, but, I would like to see some informed expertise, something Webb has in bushel baskets.


by Nick Stump on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like Webb but he has only been in (none / 0)

the Senate for a couple of months. He would be a great VP candidate though. Right now I see Obama and Edwards as the only options, and I will support whoever is closest to beating Hillary when the first primaries are held.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like Webb but he has only been in (none / 0)

But his experience is much deeper and broader than anyone running.  But if we take out the experience part--his intellect and understand of class in this country and our place in this world is just outstanding and I don't see any candidate close to him.

Check out Jameswebb.com.  It's his old website, where he has a ton of stuff he's written over the years.  He's so much more qualified than the crop we're looking at now.  As VP, he'd be wasted, and whoever the President was, probably wouldn't like having the smartest guy in the room be their VP.


by Nick Stump on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like Webb but he has only been in (none / 0)

You are probably right but it would be a hard sell to the people - they want things that are easy to comprehend, like numbers and figures. How many years a person has been Senator, Governor and so on.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 07:33:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Progressive majority vs Hillary disaster (3.00 / 1)

Populism - I agree; that's how things will shake out for the people who start thinking about elections later in the year. Tho' I saw a poll where a lot are paying attention now. Hm-m.

Edwards admits to being a populist. There's a change from the "moderate is virutous" meme of the '90's. I really do not see how the Democratic party will select Hillary. The very conservative elements? My neighbor who says we would get Mr. back?

None of the three combined are as experienced as Al Gore. Since we can't have that, lets hope we have an honorable person who shares our values. Experience isn't just an opposition talking point - it counts a lot. Who would hire a CEO with no experience in running an agency or business. That's just dumb.


by mrobinsong on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 07:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly right. (none / 0)

All of Hillary's "experience" couldn't help her make the right call on Iraq. Let's not make the same mistake we made last time with Kerry.


miasmo.com
by miasmo on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:29:37 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Right now the msm are busy with hit jobs on Obama.  If they had brains they would see Obama did a health care bill  in Il. covering people under 18 w/o insurance.  And he has more experience than the other 2 in the top.  Constitutional Professor, civil rights atty, 8 years in state sentate and the 2 in the US now.


by vwcat on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:30:46 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (3.00 / 1)

Yeah but you knew that was coming... its part of the vetting process... He's gonna be slammed for the next few months and then they will key in on the top 3 or 4 people.  Depending on how Obama handles it will be a big part of any growth or drop in his polling.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:47:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

her experience and voters reaction to it is the problem, the leader of the opposition party should not a have 46%-50% of voters saying they would not support them. Bush is at 33% approval
and Hillary with 100% name ID is losing in general election trial heats to most Republicans.
where I come from half the country making up thier minds not to support me in 2 years means UNELECTABLE, it would almost be as bad as the Republicans nominating Gingrich for them a total disaster.
Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:33:40 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

"Bush is the most experienced wartime President alive today."

Your final sentence does a perfect job exploding this frame. That's about all you need to say.

Before Bush, I didn't actually think the President was so utterly important. I mean, sure, the President has a great deal of power, but that power is diffused by not only the Supreme Court and Congress, but by the whole Executive Branch. Anonymous underlings poring over the details had a big chunk of that power, which I thought helped decrease the centralized power of the President.

And surely an ignorant and lazy president couldn't really achieve much? For good or ill? I mean, yes, candidate Bush revealed terrible priorities and abysmal judgement, but at least he surrounded himself with experience ... like Cheney!

At that point, I figured that experience/knowledge outweighed judgement/priorities/instincts by a huge margin. I voted against Bush, but wasn't -too- frightened. How much harm could such a lightweight do?

Sob.

This time around, I'm all about the instincts, priorities, and judgement. If a half-assed president like Bush can forge an administration which so utterly and blindly reflects his diseased ideology--despite his lack of experience and knowledge--I can only imagine what someone who really -cared- could do.


by BingoL on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:37:06 PM EST

Voters will be looking for experience in 2008 (none / 0)

Presidential voters in an open presidential election year tend to try to solve the perceived problems of the past president.

I think the public, both democratic and republican, perceive the current president to have been inexperienced and lacking seriousness when it came to the presidency.

It may be a right wing talking point and it may be echoed by the establishment, but, unlike other preivous elections, voters will probably be looking for a serious and experienced candidate.  If a candidate does not posess these qualities, it will probably take great rhetorical skill to convince a skeptical public that he or she should be trusted with the job.

When it comes to actual governing experience, none of these candidates have a great deal besides Giuliani, Richardson, and Thompson.  (I am sure I have forgotten someone in this incredibly overpacked field)


d
by d on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:41:38 PM EST

Re: Voters will be looking for experience in 2008 (none / 0)

Giuliani really has very little experience besides being NYC mayor.  He has zero foreign affairs or national security experience despite his consulting business.  And zero judgement (messy divorce, Kerik affiliations).

Thompson is another matter, either Fred or Tommie.  That's who I'd worry about.


by Mimikatz on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:51:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Voters will be looking for experience in 2008 (none / 0)

Mimikatz makes an excellent point.  Giuliani is getting ONE BIG free ride.  Maybe the MSM should start holding republicans to same experience standand.  Experience is VERY important to office, but so is judgement, honesty, character, leadership, etc.   I personally think all the dems have a good balance of each and will make history either woman or black or hispanic for PRES and maybe VP.  


Roger
by rogpol1 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:12:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Experience Matters (none / 0)

We are fooling ourselves if we think experience doesn't matter, but I think the debate hasn't been honest on this.

Experience matters more in a campaign, once elected, I think that judgment is the most important.  This is frankly, the flip side of the electability argument.

I strongly supported Gov. Dean through most of the 2004 primary.  My number one reason for supporting him: electability.  I thought he had the passion and the personality to connect with and even electrify voters.  I actually think Sen. Kerry is more liberal than Gov. Dean, but he is more establishment and so the anti-establishment Gov. Dean got labeled as a "liberal."

In fact, Gov. Dean had an A rating from the NRA and is a fiscal moderate bordering on conservative.  I thought his experience and moderation as governor would be political assets, as was his opposition to the war.

On the other hand, I thought Sen. Kerry was a quiet but liberal senator who would not have broad appeal but be a solid progressive if elected.

I was sure that Gov. Dean was more electable.  Boy was I wrong!!

I strongly disagree with the voices who think Gov. Dean was done in by an "MSM" or establishment hit-job.  He certainly was a target, but, at the end of the day, it was his own mistakes and his own campaign that were their own worst enemy.  I actually was relieved by the primary process because it did exactly what it is supposed to do: it allowed a good exchange of ideas and vetted out the candidate(s) not ready for prime time.  Gov. Dean, as a person, would have been a better candidate on paper and in person (and lots of crappy things happened too).

However, his lack of experience would have meant he would have faced an even harsher general election climate than Sen. Kerry.

And this is why experience is an electability issue.  I think it is extremely risky to think that years and years of public life and campaigning don't inure an ability to survive and thrive politically.  It is both genetic and acquired skill, so to speak.

Does Sen. Clinton's experience mean she would be a better president? Maybe.  Maybe not.

What I know is that her experience means she will run a better campaign and will serve the party well.

I think questions about Sen. Obama's experience are completely legitimate and he should have to demonstrate his ability on the campaign trail.  So far, frankly, voters have been largely under whelmed.  It is the danger any candidate faces when they get front-loaded with so much buzz.

The primary contest itself will be a test to see if Sen. Obama and Team Obama (and all the others) have the discipline and experience to run a good campaign.  I think that is far from certain and it is not only a legitimate question, it is a vital one for our party's general election prospects.


by rcipw on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:48:00 PM EST

Re: Experience Matters (none / 0)

Obama does have "years and years in public life", though mostly at the state level.  Clinton is really an anomaly in that she has been visible for 15 years but the first 8 were as First Lady, where she had no real independent power base or authority.  So she's a 1+ term Senator and Obama has 2 years in the Senate, but several years more in IL politics.


by Mimikatz on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 05:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience Matters (none / 0)

"I think questions about Sen. Obama's experience are completely legitimate and he should have to demonstrate his ability on the campaign trail."

Agreed. He does demonstrate that on the Campaign Trail. We have plenty of Video EVIDENCE!

"So far, frankly, voters have been largely under whelmed.  It is the danger any candidate faces when they get front-loaded with so much buzz."

Care to back that up with the facts? Where oh where are you getting that information? It's easy to pop off opinions masked in the allusion of fact, but I see no evidence to your claim.

Have a wonderful evening.


"I don't believe in this can't do, won't do, won't even try style of politics. Yes We Can!" ~ Barack Obama
by ObamaEdwards2008 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience Matters (none / 0)

Her experience in campaigning won't help with the 50% of voters that cannot stand her. She has defined herself already and the result is horrific.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Looks like that 'inevitability' isn't so inevitable, is it?

I still want to know how it is, that a person could be considered electable when 51% of men, and 42% of women say they will NEVER vote for her in the general election?


by rikyrah on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:17:31 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

It's beyond me, Obama's surrugates are going to have to make the case subtly of course that the general electorate has made up it's mind on Hillary and it's not for the bettor.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 06:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Experience Meme (3.00 / 2)

The experience meme is as old as the hills.  If you and your campaign think that you have "more experience" than your opponent(s), you certainly have the option of trying to push this meme as hard as you can.  And yes, the experience meme works best when it is linked to fear.  You don't want to take any chances now do you dearie?  It is the essence of the incumbency argument, and assuredly, it can work very well.

On the other hand, those same opponents can also hang the "more experienced" meme around your neck like a millstone.  Tired of the same old, conventional "experienced" politicians?  Isn't it time for real change?  Sure, my opponent has been part of the system, for more time, and you know what?  That system is corrupt to the core.  You know that.  I know that. We all know that.  We need new leaders, not more of the same.  (BTW, this argument worked pretty well in 2006.)    

As I see it, Hillary Clinton, like John Kerry before her, wants to promote the experience meme. Both Obama and Edwards can, if they so desire, turn that meme around on her.  She, like the system, is slow, cautious, corrupt, and disappointing.  She is more of the same.  Turn the page.  

Edwards, in particular, is very up front about ending the slow march of the status quo:  he wants transformational change, not baby steps.  When you consider how tattered our reputation is around the world, when you consider the state of our health care system, when you consider the level of corruption in our political system, when you consider the urgent need to end our addiction to oil and address global warming, when you consider the huge gap between the haves and the have-nots, a gap which keeps getting larger, is it really time to go back into the past, or is it time, instead, to embrace fresh leadership?  

Viewed through a diffferent lens, experience is very much about the past and embracing the past, and change is very much about leadership and the future.  As James Joyce illuminated in his masterpiece "The Dead," endlessly embracing the past renders the present, and the future, dead.  


by Demo37 on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:07:24 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Everytime Obama is questioned about experience, he should deliver a set piece on his resume until his supporters have it memorized. it does no good for him to argue with the definition of experience. Or for his supporters to be defensive about it. Hillary has less legislative experience and less as a program/agency/business manager.

We can make the experience mem work for the Democratic side by reminding people that Bush failed as a manager and always had and that he wasn't prepared.


by mrobinsong on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:08:37 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

I'm just waiting for Clinton to declare "where's the beef?"


by LPMandrake on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:17:25 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

I am one of the minority in the netroots who thinks experience will be a major factor in the primaries and general election. After seeing the disaster that Bush has been voters will be extremely leery of voting for someone with a light resume. The GOP theme will continue to be that the world is a dangerous and unstable place.  


BlueSunbelt.Com Netroots for the Sunbelt states robwire.com My personal blog
by robliberal on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 08:19:18 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (3.00 / 2)

Wow, I guess you do learn something new every day. Today: experience is a right-wing frame.

I'll be sure to mention that next time I go on a job interview.


by blueflorida on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 09:42:05 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Huh...I haven't been able to find a candidate to get behind, and one of my concerns has been lack of experience. Frankly, I don't consider Clinton much more experienced than Edwards or Obama. She's basically had one term in the Senate before she started running.

Anyhow, Matt, thanks for letting me know that by caring about experience I am just doing what the right wing insiders want me to do. By the way, here's a list of candidates I really wish would have ran because of, among other reasons, experience:

Russ Feingold
Howard Dean
Al Gore

Right wing warmongers, all.  


by Paul Simon Democrat on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:47:37 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Are all "progressives' who think HRC is pro-war and responsible for the Iraq fiasco that ignorant?  Has no one done their homework and actually read what she said and what she voted for?  Keep in mind that she was a Senator from NYC and was on ground zero -Chuck Schumer voted for the resolution as well- It was my understanding at the time and HRC's as well that this was a vote to bring back the weapons inspectors.  She made it very clear that it was not a vote to rush to war- Please, please read her floor speech- Can't we wait for the debates to use more than reporting spin to judge who is competent to be the next President?  So many of you are just parroting the netroots line- A USA Today poll last week showed HRC's favorability rating to be 59%  -not bad- If her negatives are so high why is she ahead in every state and by double digits over Obama in the early important ones?  The President must represent the whole country-as much as many of you youngsters would like to have it "your way" all of life is a compromise whether it's marriage, friendship or government.  Can't we just act grown-up-think of our kids and their future and wait to see on the basis of fact and not just stupid generalieis like; "Hillary is unlikeable"  In fact, Hillary is very likeable to those who actually know her or know her record- check out her NY numbers and how high they've risen since she first started-  She is known to be one of the hardest working Senators-see NYT article today on the respect of the military-By the way-Hillary Clinton is 60 years old- she has been in public service all of her adult life-  Walter Mondale's subcommittee on immigrant farm workers, the clinics at Yale -New Haven hospital, the Children's Defense Fund-her life long pro bono child abuse case history-watergate hearings- the list goes on and on- Obama is our future for sure but Hillary is ready now-she knows every issue inside out- Long before she was First Lady she had made a name for herself-Do the research and be smart- Let's not do Karl Rove's job for him-Matt- You can't really mean that "experience  frame" doesn't  matter-whether you're a brain surgeon or a President-there is no time for learning curve-


by Menemshasunset on Tue Mar 27, 2007 at 10:53:20 PM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

It seems to me that Richardson (full disclosure: my preferred nominee) is the guy who talks about his experience in every breath, namely because he has such a bizarre mixture of government experience (legislative, executive, cabinet, state dep't, etc., etc.). His foreign policy experience, for instance, far surpasses that of any other candidate. I'll get off the stump now.

Matt's post is interesting, But how does experience play on the right? I think I agree with some of the commenters that it is not so simple. I think the experience frame on the right favors Romney, honestly, while the opposing "leadership" frame tilts towards Giuliana (WTF, right?). McCain had "character" and "commonsense conservatism" until recently; I think he was really sullied by his torture acrobatics.

and Menemshasunset: I'm not sure I agree that it is "ignorant" to classify Clinton as prowar, and please don't patronize: is governance a compromise? How mature. It's really charming that you believe what HRC says in things like floor speeches made while voting for war, but I simply do not.

The Bush reality-distortion field has made Clintonism into an object of nostalgia which it frankly does not deserve. From "Cruise Missile Diplomacy" to the Healthcare failures that set us back decades to Rwanda to "ending welfare as we know it," the Clintons have a sordid record. Frankly, the impeachment helped.

That said, Draft Webb? Dean? WTF? To hear you guys talk, it sounds as if this isn't the deepest slate of dem nominees since Clinton beat Tsongas. We don't need more candidates. We have several plausible ones. Clinton may be among my least favorites, but she's better than we get most years.


by nvalvo on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 05:05:36 AM EST

I do have to laugh though (none / 0)

The Politico was really built up large when they posted a bogus poll on how each Senator felt about their Iraq War vote.

The Politico sure was smart then, weren't they??

LOL!!!!

As for media matters, I still like their gloss on the iraq war vote itself.....

http://mediamatters.org/items/2004092200 08

i guess media matters was pretty fucking stupid to actually believe something like that cause only someone pretty fucking stupid would believe the vote wasn't for bush's war.  right?

but now media matters isn't stupid?

right.

LOL.  I do have to laugh.


by Stewieeeee on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 05:12:14 AM EST

Re: Experience is the New Electability (none / 0)

Actually, a lot of people who back Gore and want him to run are talking about experience.  It's not true it's the right wing or the Clintonites who are the only ones talking up this issue.

As noted above, after so many people voted in 2000 for one of the least experienced presidential candidates in the history of the country, there's no way you are going to be able to tell people during the next election cycle that experience doesn't matter.   It's self-evident that it does.

If you had to rate the candidates, or likely candidates, in descending order in terms of experience, Gore, who is obviously the most liberal and progressive, is at the top, followed by Kucinich, then Richardson, perhaps Hillary Clinton, then Edwards and Obama.  

As for Obama's credentials as a liberal or progressive-- who knows?   The worst part is, he may not know himself-- Obama seems, to some extent, a work in progress.   The campaign trail or the White House is not a good place to figure out what you stand for.


by tea in the harbor on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 08:02:43 AM EST

Matt Stoller wrote: (none / 0)

"And now she's running on the idea that she's experienced in health care, even as she has more corporate health care money in her campaign coffers than any other Senator and approximately zero major Senate accomplishments to her name in any arena foreign or domestic."

You know, keep spreading these lies and you will get to watch Rudy and Judy Giuliani dancing together at the Inauguration Ball in 2009.  Mark my words.

Zero major Senate accomplishments?  Go to Hillary's senate site and look at what she has done in this month alone (March 2007) all while running a campaign for President.

You are damaging your own party Matt Stoller.


by marasaud on Wed Mar 28, 2007 at 05:41:19 PM EST


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