I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2

This morning, The New York Times ran a good story about Sen. Edwards and the blogs.  After my post yesterday, "I am Amanda Marcotte" as well as the Facebook group I set up, and after Sen. Edwards statement (NewsTrust Review), I've received a lot of personal comments and questions.

I've been blogging for years and on the Internet much longer.  An enterprising investigator can find stupid things I wrote online twenty-five years ago.  I've been hired by campaigns to blog for them.  I've been told what I can and can't write about.  I've had things that I've written, both before and during campaigns criticized, and I've had people try to prevent me from getting jobs or get me fired because of things that I've written.  It is for that reason, that I believe who writes anything online, whether they be liberal or conservative needs to stand with Amanda and Melissa.

People have asked me what is so offensive about what they have written.  I must admit, I don't particularly find calling conservative Christians "Christofascists" particularly offensive.  I've probably done worse and will probably do worse in the future, perhaps even by the time I finish this blog entry.  However, even for me, I found Amanda's hypothetical question about the Blessed Virgin Mary and Plan B over the top.  Those who are curious can read it here.  It is liberal shock blogging.  It is brilliant and offensive.  I would have been both proud and embarrassed to have written something like that.  As one person on the Facebook group wrote, "I wish I was as badass as Amanda Marcotte."

When I initially read Sen. Edwards statement, I felt it was a little lame.  He shouldn't have criticized his bloggers the way he did, and he should have come out swinging harder at the Neo-Pharisees a little harder.  (Okay, there is my offensive swing at the extreme right wing Christians.  Maybe I won't get a job with the Edwards campaign after all.)  I felt that Sen. Edwards should have responded much more quickly.  After all, the Internet is nearly real time.

Yet as I read what Amanda had written, thought about my own reaction, the reaction my parents would have had to such language, let alone the demonstrations that "The Last Temptation of Christ" brought out, I find I agree with Sen. Edwards.  While his response may have been politically expedient, I also believe it is truly authentic and I respect him for it.

As to taking on the Neo-Pharisees, yes, I would have loved to see John drive them from the temple.  Yet as others have noted, this is a task best suited to surrogates.  I am very excited to see BlogPac take up the cause.  I hope everyone participates in standing up to the Neo-Pharisees and to making sure that the media looks at their statements with critical eyes.

With regards to the timing, I think Sen. Edwards ended up getting it about right.  In my past, I've had too many discussions with campaign managers and political consultants and not enough with the candidates themselves about what this topsy-turvy world of the Internet really means.  I must applaud Sen. Edwards for his discussions with Amanda and Melissa.  I hope other candidates follow his example, both in dealing with critics and in dealing with staff.

Some friends have suggested that this would be a small event that would soon be forgotten.  I wasn't sure if my reaction was so strong because I've been in Amanda and Melissa's shoes or if it was really this important because it is part of the significant change in the role of the Internet in campaigns.  I hope it is the later.



Display:


Excellent, honest diary (none / 0)

My thinking on the topic took a similar path. At first, I thought it was unbelievable, outrageous, infuriating that Edwards was thinking of firing them--a reaction that derived in part from pure netroots narcisism. I also was sure it was stupid politically. Then I tried putting myself in Edwards's shoes. You get word that bloggers that your staff, not you, hired had written stuff that a lot of people--general election voters, in particular--would find offensive. You see a post involving the Virgin Mary getting filled up with white sticky stuff, or whatver it was. Not an easy call, not by any means. Given the overly catious, staid nature of presidential campaigns, I think it's surprising that Edwards stood by them. A credit to both the candidate and the influence of the netroots.


by david mizner on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 10:02:31 AM EST

Re: Excellent, honest diary (none / 0)

Exactly David, this was a General Election  attack. The VRWC is trying to take out Edwards so they can deal with an opponent easier to beat like Hillary Clinton (and maybe Barack Obama).


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 11:20:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why it took 36 hours (3.00 / 2)

John Edwards is a hands-on administrator.  He was in Kansas and Oklahoma, a long way away from North Carolina, trying to raise money to compete with HRC.  Why would he invite people to open their homes for fundraisers and then ditch them because of some nut like Donohue?

From the NY Times article:

Jennifer Palmieri, a spokeswoman for Mr. Edwards, said he had not wanted to decide without first speaking to them personally.

"We took 36 hours," Ms. Palmieri said, "because we were dealing with people's livelihoods and careers and reputations."


Michigan For Edwards and Labor-Netroots for Edwards
by philgoblue on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 11:19:03 AM EST

Edwards response a bit canned... (none / 0)

"I also believe it is truly authentic and I respect him for it."

I don't think anyone would call Edward's response "authentic".

He was "shocked, shocked I say" by what his two new employees had written which makes him look a bit foolish since he was clearly clueless on what the ladies had written.

Edwards ends up validating the "shock" of the right wing nuts who started the whole thing.

It also made it clear that he didn't hire them for any sterling qualities he perceived but simply because he saw a name on a marquee and wanted to hire it.

Haven't gotten caught, Edwards made a purely political decision, which was less damaging to him, keeping the wild and crazy employees or getting rid of them.

In a way it's another missed opportunity for Edwards similar to his New Orleans announcement.

Instead of attacking the right wing nuts who were as "shocked" as Edwards by the blogs, Edwards could have used it to attack the group as an evil, anti-Jewish group and used the whole incident to shine a light on the danger of the religious right wing.


by BrionLutz on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 11:51:24 AM EST

Re: Edwards response a bit canned... (3.00 / 3)

I don't think anyone can say anything positive without BrionLutz stepping in to say something that he doesn't believe it and going negative.

But then again, that's just my opinion and Brion is just expressing his opinion.


by aldon on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 12:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards response a bit canned... (none / 0)

"It took a while, and it isn't perfect, but Edwards didn't cave."

Is hardly a ringing endorsement of Edwards' lastest dust up...but that's just Chris Bower's opinion ;)

Edwards has had a string of bombs lately, New Orleans announcement, the BIG house, the nuke Iran thing and now getting caught with his blog in the wringer.


by BrionLutz on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 03:09:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

For having such an allegedly terrible time... (none / 0)

...Edwards still comes out on top.

Which is, I suspect, why you continue to bite at his ankles. Please, find something constructive to do on Obama's behalf. I don't think you're helping his cause at all with this relentlessly negative campaign.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 03:21:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: For having such an allegedly terrible time... (none / 0)

"Edwards still comes out on top"

Of what...he's dropped a bunch in the netroots polls and enough in the main stream polls for Zogby to say NH is a two person race, Clinton and Obama.

This certainly hurt Edwards...the netrooters were pissed he didn't act fast enough, spending a long time triangulating the pros and cons of firing the two employees.

There are probably more than a few Catholics who didn't like the Edward's employees dissing.

The general public saw some vague problem with Edwards campaign.

A lose-lose-lose for Edwards.


by BrionLutz on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 05:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards has not dropped in the netroots (none / 0)

What are you basing that on? Edwards won the last few DailyKos straw polls and has held steady with this recent blogger situation. He possibly gained some netroots support but it's too early to know. He certainly has not "dropped a bunch in netroots polls." What polls?


by NCDemAmy on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 06:35:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards netroots drop based on... (none / 0)

"What are you basing that on?"

Some guy named Matt Stoller posted this as one of the front page diaries on MyDD, Wednessday February 7th.

Despite going on a blogospheric hiring spree, Edwards just saw a collapse in netroots support, from 35 points in the January Dkos straw poll to 26 points.  


by BrionLutz on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 07:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This was the first month Kos put 'other' and ... (none / 0)

... 'no clue' in the straw poll, so he didn't "push the leaners" this time. But as we saw from the head-to-head poll between Edwards and Obama, Edwards still is up by about 1,500, same as January's poll, when you do push the leaners.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 09:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This was the first month Kos put 'other' and . (none / 0)

"no clue' in the straw poll"

Sorry you have no clue.  Talk to Matt, he posted the  diary about Edwards having a big drop in the netroots poll.


by BrionLutz on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 10:02:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know you got banned at DKos, but you still... (none / 0)

...can go check the facts right here: 2/6 straw poll

Kos himself says:

I omitted the two options "other" and "no freakin' clue" from the previous two straw polls, which probably accounts for much of the fall in Edwards' support (in other words, it's soft).

Kos followed that straw poll up with The whittled down straw poll that shows what happens when people are again pushed to pick one (or "stay home"):

Given these two options, who would you vote for?

Edwards  
51% 10058 votes

Obama  
43% 8432 votes

I'd stay home  
5% 1115 votes

Edwards by 1,600-plus votes, about the same as in January's straw poll. What a coincidence :)

 


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 11:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Matt posted the diary showing Edwards losing (none / 0)

points in the netroots polls.

Go argue with him (I gave you the link to the poll and his quote) if you have issues with his statement that Edwards had a big drop in the netroots polls.


by BrionLutz on Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 12:22:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's take the fight to Donohue! (none / 0)

Let's go get Bill Donohue --  either via the IRS or the NY State AG.  (Scroll down for more info.)

The IRS can take away his tax-exempt status.  But the NYS Attorney General's office can shut him down, PERIOD -- and very quickly.


by Phoenix Woman on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 02:24:43 PM EST

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

Glad to see you around and on the right side of this, Aldon.


Sean Robertson
by Sean Robertson on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 02:30:34 PM EST

Against Sacroturf (none / 0)

Totally with you all the way, Aldon.  The bell tolls for all of us.


by Crablaw on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 06:22:52 PM EST

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

Today I wondered how people would have reacted if the blogging in question had been the n word or the f word or anti-semetic or worse.

I am beginning to think that people need to be held accountable for their choices and for the words they use.  Shock has its value on the web but it shouldn't be cost free.


by aiko on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 06:57:11 PM EST

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

Shock has its value on the web but it shouldn't be cost free.

Um. Okay. That would be nice in a perfect world. Do you expect the that republicans would be held to the same standard? Why stop at bloggers? How about all of the great very right wing noise machine? I do recall one of their shock people expressing something about the New York Times building a few years ago - she still seems to get air time.

Evidently we need to convene a conference on blogger ethics - and maybe a side symposium or two on A modest proposal for journalists who slept through their high school English class.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 05:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

Look I am not going to tolerate anyone trashing others because of their race, religion, gender, sexual preference, etc.  Generally it shouldn't be tolerated. It is wrong.


by aiko on Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 07:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

Look I am not going to tolerate anyone trashing others because of their race, religion, gender, sexual preference, etc.  Generally it shouldn't be tolerated. It is wrong.

And yet it is tolerated. The great right wingnut noise machine churns stuff out all of the time - their spokespeople say a lot of nasty things about a lot of people and they get away with it - to the point of being celebrated in our media and popular culture.

The question is - how do we hold the great right wing noise machine accountable?

There is a difference between "trashing others" and satire, though I would suspect that many a target of satire feels they have been trashed. You're going to have to define that difference for yourself.


543,895 votes
by Michael Bersin on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 09:32:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

nicely stated. what they mean really is that their idea althoough being placed into the public sphere is to be treated more sacred than others. so they flip the conversation from being about the ideals to being about their identity. it's a form of ju jitsu. you are talking public polciy, and when its convenient to their position so are they, but the minute you do what other ideas have to face, challenge their ideals then it's bigotry. here's the thing, I'm gay, I have to regularly defend myself against extreme positions despite overwhelming evidence that the other sides position is false- ie, scientific, psychological, none o that matters because their ideas are 'sacred." it's a way of avoiding being questioned on their ideas.


by bruh21 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 05:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

Great post Aldon.  Thank you.


by drowsy on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 07:11:41 PM EST

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

I am a Roman Catholic who is also a political moderate and partisan Democrat.  I don't like Mr. Donohue as a spokesperson for my religion, and when I first heard about this controversy, I thought the blogs must have been sensationalized for political effect.  I am also a prime voter who is undecided about the 2008 nomination, but I was leaning towards Edwards.

I wrote "was" because I am truly shocked by the comments of the bloggers.  I don't care what people write, but I want a President who will not side with people who would write such things.  The bloggers should resign from his campaign, because their association has shifted me away from Edwards...and I am sure I am not alone.


by Francis Vecellio on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 09:24:15 PM EST

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

if you are shocked without tryihng to figure out the context, then i dont believe you were leaning. sorry, just tired of hearing from people who are being less than sincere. what is the context of her statements- can you tell me?


by bruh21 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 05:15:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

I read the whole text, jerk.

You can also look me up.  I made a small donation to Edwards last time around.

Are you really so arrogant as to believe that anyone who disagrees with you is a liar?


by Francis Vecellio on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 05:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

i have no interest in looking you up. i just find people like you a waste of time. good luck.


by bruh21 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 07:14:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

ps let me be clear- the reason I am being rude is that other groups such as  my self, as a gay man, am expected quite frequently to accept that our candidates will be less than perfect, and that the party is about "diversity" of views. but when soomeone like you is challenged to accept diversity of views, this is the response we get. it gets kind of old to have to argue with- but I thought you (as in so called moderates complaining about people l ike me who actually find our rights being denied based on our status)  were interested in a big tent. apparently tent only includes people who are not offensive to you, but they can be as offensive to me as they want so long as they aren't overt about it.


by bruh21 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 07:19:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

and for the record- edwards isn't the biggest gay rights supporter out there- he's okay. but i accept that because i really am not just in it for candidates who will do exactly what i want but will surround himself with people who will give him views from a wide selection of americans.


by bruh21 on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 07:20:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am Amanda Marcotte, Part 2 (none / 0)

I look at it a little different. There has certainly been a cost as earlier posters have pointed out, but we may be in a time period where the internet allows politicians a chance to round up extreme views and tuck them under their lapels -- just by doing exactly what Edwards has done.

Not saying Amanda's generals views are extreme, but that white hot stuff, wow.

It may be a smarter move than anyone cares to realize. The guy is a trial lawyer after all, he must have some insight into the jury's thought process. I'll bet he has solidified an entire voting block with this, a very motivated one at that.


by jellybean on Sat Feb 10, 2007 at 12:42:59 AM EST


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