Google Works With Anti-Net Neutrality Cable Companies

Hello, MyDDers, I know this is not the friendliest site for those of us who take an unorthodox view of net neutrality. Like others who have commented here before, I do consulting work for Hands off the Internet. But I am writing today not to argue, but to ask a question. First, let me excerpt from a Reuters story out this week:

New Internet TV services such as Joost and YouTube may bring the global network to its knees, Internet companies said on Wednesday, adding they are already investing heavily just to keep data flowing.

Google, which acquired online video sharing site YouTube last year, said the Internet was not designed for TV.

It even issued a warning to companies that think they can start distributing mainstream TV shows and movies on a global scale at broadcast quality over the public Internet.

"The Web infrastructure, and even Google's (infrastructure) doesn't scale. It's not going to offer the quality of service that consumers expect," Vincent Dureau, Google's head of TV technology, said at the Cable Europe Congress.

Google instead offered to work together with cable operators to combine its technology for searching for video and TV footage and its tailored advertising with the cable networks' high-quality delivery of shows.

One cable chief executive, Duco Sickinghe from Belgian operator Telenet, said it was "the best news of the day" to hear that Google could not scale for video.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenew s.aspx?type=internetnews&storyID=urn :newsml:reuters.com:20070207:MTFH04941_2 007-02-07_17-42-40_L0767087&WTmodLoc =SciNewsHome_R1_internetnews-1"

Now, if you've been keeping tabs on this over the past year, this should raise your eyebrows just a bit. Consider that cablecos have fought neutrality regs as strenuously as the telcos. So now Google, champion of Save the Internet, is in bed with the cablecos.

What does this mean for the net neutrality cause?

I've been racking my brains since I read this, but I figured I should ask someone here for their take. Does this put Google on the other side from you? Are you concerned they will find it in their financial benefit to abandon their previous neutrality stance? Or am I missing something important?



Display:


Uh. (none / 0)

I don't see how this means anything to do with network neutrality... at all.

Why would it be that just because Google and the cable companies are on opposite sides of a political dispute, they would stop doing business with each other? Businesses are not bloggers. Being "in bed" with one's enemies is not particularly weird in that world. Ever notice, just for starters, how deeply in bed with each other Apple and Microsoft are?

Now, aside from the (totally irrelevant) "in bed" aspect you bring up, if Google entered into network-specific video content deals with the cable companies-- which they may or may not be proposing with their whole "combine its technology" thing-- this would be against the spirit of their net neutrality positions last year. But:

  1. It's not clear that's specifically what Google is proposing here
  2. This is just a proposal, being made by the head of Google TV, and the views of Google as a whole may not have been factored in yet,
  3. Aside from what it would mean "in spirit" from an idealist's perspective, there's not necessarily a conflict between finding network-specific applications for video streaming acceptable, and the positions google campaigned for last year-- i.e., opposing the use of tiered internet services and/or kickbacks from content providers to ISPs for preferential treatment.

Depending on how whatever it is that the Google TV guy is proposing here is implemented, it's quite technically possible that the services Google is proposing would be entirely within the legal bounds of the network neutrality legislation shot down last year.

In fact, it is possible that this kind of argument is being made in service of a pro-network-neutrality philosophy-- though the Google TV guy is quite vague, he seems to be saying that rather than moving toward IPTV, the cable companies should continue delivering TV broadcasts as they have and instead attempt to integrate internet-like features (which incidentally they would pay Google for) into their TV delivery systems. From a purely practical perspective, this helps network neutrality a good deal. If IPTV never comes to pass, one of the major economic arguments in favor of tiered internet services disappears utterly.

All this said, I find it funny you seem here to be using the words "an unorthodox view of net neutrality" to describe the mainstream, Republican view of net neutrality.


by Silent sound on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 04:09:24 PM EST

Incidentally (none / 0)

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this, but I did want to say I found it kind of amusing that out of the six people who've recommended this diary, three have profiles stating just "I work with the Hands Off the Internet Coalition" or "I work as a consultant for the Hands Off the Internet Coalition."


by Silent sound on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 05:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Google Works With Anti-Net Neutrality... (none / 0)

This position doesn't run contrary to Google's position on net neutrality - it's just the latest bit of evidence about what the company is really after.  It's part of a plan, including purchasing enormous fiber backhaul capacity and building up huge datacenters around cheap power, to make Google the go-to-guy for cable and phone companies when online video and things like BitTorrent hit the real mainstream - I'm talking about people who just use the Internet for email and news right now.  At that point, ISPs won't have enough bandwidth to handle the new traffic - especially if their hands are tied by net neutrality regs - and Google, with its huge caching facilities that help content take short cuts - will be the obvious peering partner.  What does that mean for Google and net neutrality?  I think they still take the same position - they are for it.  The question is: should Internet users reconsider their positions?


by she said she said on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 05:59:36 PM EST

Re: Google Works With Anti-Net Neutrality Cable Co (none / 0)

Hmm, anti-net neutrality spam in the rec diary list.  Interesting.  Good job getting Reuters to carry a questionable story.

I'm procrastinating work I should be doing, so might as well answer: bandwidth to users is limited by the last mile to the user location, usually two telephone copper wires re-purposed to carry data (aka DSL) or a TV cable re-purposed to carry data.  

The whole idea of "ISP's not having enough bandwidth" is hogwash.  Let's say there is a 10x increase in traffic.  Both the last mile and the ISPs need to increase their bandwidth.  Which is easier, pulling new wires or fiber into every user's home, or pulling a pair of fibers from an ISP datacenter to another ISP datacenter?  A: the latter, by orders of magnitude.  If users do want 15 or 100 megabit service, and are willing to pay for new wires to their house to support it, pennies on the dollar will pay for new ISP to ISP capacity.

And none of this even considers more local hosting, caching servers, etc., that can reduce traffic even more.  It reminds me of the whining of coal companies or car companies when tighter regulations are debated.  They gnash teeth, say doom is nigh, then after the new rules come out, they are able to comply at 1/10th the projected cost.

Also, Google has a lot of products, and what do they have in common?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Goo gle_products

Yes, they all use bandwidth.  It shouldn't be a surprise that they buy bandwidth.

Oh, and last I checked, online video (like, say, youtube) already hit the mainstream.  And "mainstream" users that only use email are still running Windows 95, and would have to upgrade computers to watch video, too.  Why do that when their cheapo TV works just fine?  

Sorry to feed the trolls everyone...


end the occupation of Iraq
by aip on Fri Feb 09, 2007 at 07:57:59 PM EST

Re: Google Works With Anti-Net Neutrality Cable Co (none / 0)

did you even read the cringely column?  I'm guessing not.

The Internet ain't broken right now and no one is saying that it is - that's a straw man argument.  But, despite what you simply assert, youtube is not apple pie-mainstream.  Your grandmother's probably never heard of it.  And bittorrent is just used by a handful of people compared to the billions that are on the web.  The whole point is that, as more and more people start using this stuff, it's going to mean an exponential jump in bandwidth demand - IN THE NEAR FUTURE.

People are going to continue to string more fiber, increase capacity and speeds are going to get faster.  But Cringely's point is that Google sees the future and is going to be a big player in huge caching services - maybe THE biggest player.  And net neutrality is part of that plan, so everyone better open their eyes.

oh yeah, and exactly what's questionable about that Reuters story?

Next time you call someone a "troll," you might try making a little more sense.


by she said she said on Sun Feb 11, 2007 at 02:09:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Google Works With Anti-Net Neutrality Cable Co (none / 0)

Thanks to everybody who commented here, I apologize I didn't follow up over the weekend as I planned. It seems things move very fast here, but I at least appreciate having the chance to be heard.

Silent sound, I agree we don't know where it's going here, but I doubt the move is toward support of net neutrality or getting Comcast to change its position. Google actually has patents pending on QoS services that appear to violate neutrality goals.

I think I agree with She said she said. The Cringely column makes a good case for what Google's up to. They fear the "exaflood" like everyone else, only they are making plans to prepare for it.


Keep the Bush administration's hands off our internet!
by Johnnie Blue Jeans on Mon Feb 12, 2007 at 11:02:10 AM EST


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