The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War

McJoan points us to this discouraging piece of news.

Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., the Senate Armed Services Committee chairman, and Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman, may offer their plan -- in the form of a nonbinding resolution -- as an amendment to the Surface Transportation and Rail Security Act, S 184. It is unclear how they will be able to overcome the main hurdle -- the need for 60 votes to cut off debate in the 100-member Senate -- that has blocked a final vote on other Iraq-related legislation.

Real antiwar Democrats, like Ted Kennedy and Russ Feingold, people who are working to end the war, are damaged by this type of irresponsible behavior.  It's very clear that the Carl Levin's and Joe Biden's of the world don't get it.  Any power they delegate to Bush will be used badly.  If they don't use their power to restrict Bush's mandate, they are failing the public and enabling the escalation of the war.

The video snippet is Levin being frustrated that the military doesn't have a plan to go into Syria. Levin's office is Phone (202) 224-6221. If you have some time and are from Michigan, can you ask him why he doesn't support the Murtha plan to fully equip the troops before deploying them?



Display:


No majority for any Iraq measure? (none / 0)

That's the conclusion I'm reaching.

Given the choice of (1) settling on a particular text and (2) temporising while trying to snow the rest of us under a growing pile of different texts, Dem MCs go for Route (1) every time.

The fundamental fact which facilitates this choice is that, as things stand, nothing Dem MCs do, short of defunding, will stop the war. (And we know defunding is a dead duck.)

So - if they vote for a text that's a political liability, they would be jeopardizing their career for a meaningless gesture.

Events can change that situation: if 200 or 300 US troops get killed in a single incident, say, and there's a surge (!) of antiwar sentiment, Dem MCs will no doubt recalibrate their strategies. (All 280 of them.)

But, right now, there's nothing doing.

If the Dems could only coordinate their doing nothing, that, at least, would be an improvement...


by skeptic06 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:39:16 AM EST

Re: No majority for any Iraq measure? (none / 0)

what is your plan to get 60 votes to end debate?  can you name the repubs that will support any bill that will reach this number?  you say that biden and levin dont `get it'...so you must...whats your plan (dont say murta - i mean plan to get votes to come over)


by timlhowe on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:42:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No majority for any Iraq measure? (none / 0)

The House should pass strong measures, as strong as possible.  Let them die in the Senate, over and over, with the blame coming on the GOP.  The closer we get to the election, the more GOPers who will change their position.


by Mimikatz on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No majority for any Iraq measure? (none / 0)

mimi, we'll get 67?  i dont have a plan but im trusting biden and levin have more of asense how to handle thisand we need to support them.


by timlhowe on Fri Mar 02, 2007 at 02:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you they realize (none / 0)

the anger that their futility and cowardice is going generate among the base? Do they care?


by david mizner on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:39:22 AM EST

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

The Netroots is not the only part of the Democratic base.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:41:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

What's your point? Do you think Labor and African-Americans and just normal Dems aren't going to be pissed that Dems don't have the balls or brains to try to stop the war?


by david mizner on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:45:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

WaPo poll said 58% of USA favored Murtha plan (none / 0)

So that HAS to include something like 90% of Dems.

The netroots may not be the entire Dem base, but the rest of it is right with us on this issue.


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:57:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

I think I'm sick of people assuming everyone else in the country, or at least their party, feels the exact same way they do.

Everyone's sick of the Iraq War. That doesn't mean they're pissued about the minutia of the votes. Being pissed at Bush's mishandling and at the direction of the war doesn't means you want change, but it's not an endorsement for any particular path of change.

You say Dems don't have the balls or the brains, I say they don't have the VOTES to break a filibuster or override a veto. That calls for a different strategy - you can try to get everything done and achieve nothing, or you can try to get something done and achieve something. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled Feingold, Kennedy, and Dodd are out there saying what they are and pushing the positions that they are. I agree with them. But I'm also realisitic about what can get done.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:03:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

They don't need the votes to override a veto or break a filibuster.  See my response to your post below.


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:14:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

The Dems don't need to win on the first try.  Let the GOPers in the Senate block votes over and over and over.  The public will see who is keeping us in the war, and as we get closer to 2008 (or, gods forbid, there is a major attack against US forces) the pressure to get out will convert some of them.


by Mimikatz on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:20:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

how do we get 60 david and then how de we overcome a veto?  thats the key, not calling our Senators names...got a plan?


by timlhowe on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you they realize (none / 0)

Polling suggesats that their base opposes the war by upwards of 70%.  That is a super majority.  Who is representative of the public here, the war supporters or us?


by Mimikatz on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

If you say "if they don't use their power," what exactly are you talking about? If you can't even get 60 votes on a first-step non-binding resolution, there's no way you'll get 60 votes to cut off funding or direct strategy. Without Hagel, you might not even get 50 votes. How, exactly, is that power?

Measuring your strength, which nonbinding resolutions do, is a first step. Revoking the Authorization for the Use of Force is a good second step, which is what Biden and Levin are doing. Why is it nonbinding? Because the initial Authorization was just a nonbinding resolution, something we forget! And who won't these guys advocate pulling out now? Because it's hypocritical to demand we stop one Darfur while simultaneously demanding we create another.

And as for Murtha, Biden indicated last night here at Dartmouth that he supports that plan. He didn't explicitly say so, bu that was the tone of the remarks. Going from memory here: "How many of you are familiar with Jack Murtha? No one could call Murtha a peacenik. Why do you think he's so upset? Because they're breaking his Marines, they are breaking his Corps! And they are!"


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:41:09 AM EST

GOP, not Dems, need votes for funding! (none / 0)

Remember, the war is only funded through September.  If no bill is passed funding the war, it ends in 2007.

So how many votes do the Dems need to attach conditions to the funding bill?  The answer is, enough to block any bill that doesn't have them.

So if the House can pass a bill with conditions on it, and is willing to stand by those conditions in conference, then that's game, set, and match.  They can tell the Senate, "here's the Iraq war funding with strings attached, take it or leave it.  You can either fund the war with conditions, or not fund it at all."

The Dem-controlled House can simply refuse to bring a bill to the floor unless Murtha's conditions are attached, and it's agreed that the conditions will survive debate.  Because they can keep the bill from going to the House floor, period.


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:11:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dems with balls (and brains) of steel? (3.00 / 2)

Because if you're looking at incumbent Dem MCs, there can't, on the evidence we have, be more than a handful who'd be willing to trigger a constitutional crisis on the funding of the military with 100,000+ US troops still in the field.

It's not going to happen.


by skeptic06 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:38:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dems with balls (and brains) of steel? (none / 0)

Like you, I doubt that more than a few would be willing to allow all funding to cease in September.

But what would the Constitutional crisis be?  Can Bush somehow make the money appear even if Congress doesn't appropriate it?


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dems with balls (and brains) of steel? (none / 0)

Well, it needs research, which I'm disinclined to do, given the miniscule likelihood of it happening.

But - let's say Iraq fund expires on September 30. What does Bush do?

The first thing is reprogram DOD funds appropriated under other headings.

This is when the industrial part of the military-industrial complex has to come to the aid of the party: persuade them to defer payments due.

There's nowhere near enough there, or available long enough.

He's got to go to other departments and skim their appropriations. Illegal, no doubt.

He'll say, it's my War Power, stupid. And, as backup, the Federal courts have no jurisdiction (under standing/political question/etc rules).

And, if, say, Feingold goes to the DC District Court and gets a ruling - will he be upheld by the Circuit Court? And SCOTUS?

And, if the age of miracles is not passed after all, and SCOTUS decide Bush's action is unconstitutional - Bush flips the bird, just like Andrew Jackson (apocryphally) did to Chief Justice Marshall over the Cherokee case.

How long is all this going to take? I suspect Bush would beat the rap by simple effluxion of time.

It would make a great law review article, though.


by skeptic06 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Disclaimer (none / 0)

Just reading back my little counterfactual, it strikes me that some unwary souls may take it as in some way reliable.

Appropriations is a hideously complicated subject - go to the GAO site and download the manuals if you've got broadband and don't believe me.

There are a whole load of checks, with goo-goo types (or jobsworths, depending on whether you're looking to straighten one or two curves) overseeing the ledgers.

Planning exactly how the double-entry can be worked (if it can) would not be the job of a kibitzer.

Perhaps there's nothing doing, and there's only a month's worth of funding available past September 30.

Bush goes the political route; all outlets, all the time are filled with the Dems are killing our boys just as sure as Al Qaeda. All the news anchors have countdown clocks.

I'm not sure Pelosi and Reid do brinkmanship at that standard.


by skeptic06 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:51:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GOP, not Dems, need votes for funding! (none / 0)

Interesting, I hadn't thought of it that way. Unfortunately, blocking many bills that might have funding attached could be political suicide, and they wouldn't be around to have a say in the next war - that's how the pols will look at it.

Interesting, though. That's not the way the issue is usually framed, I'd like to see more of a non-Netroots-based discussion about it.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:25:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GOP, not Dems, need votes for funding! (none / 0)

I agree that it would be political suicide for the House Dems to block an Iraq funding bill if they don't pass one themselves.  Which effectively means that 218 of them have to agree that they want to attach conditions to such a bill, and agree on which conditions they'd be.

How achievable a goal that is, I don't know.  Right now, it isn't looking great, I've got to admit.  But once they've passed such a bill (if they do), they're no longer the ones blocking funding.  


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:48:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: GOP, not Dems, need votes for funding! (none / 0)

And now it looks like it just ain't happening.

Pathetic.


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:42:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

it's hypocritical to demand we stop one Darfur while simultaneously demanding we create another.

is that you, karl? slow day in the office?


by benjoya on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:27:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i mean, really (none / 0)

pro-withdrawal = pro-genocide?  a bit sledgehammer, don't you think?


by benjoya on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 11:52:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i mean, really (none / 0)

Sometimes sledgehammers are necessarry tools when building a house.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:27:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

That's what's going to happen in terms of violence. It won't be straight up genocide - it will be a bit more spread out than that - but it will be innocent death on the same scale. I think there was a point where we could have withdrawn safely, and I was in favor at one point of a strict timetable, but that point has passed now that the makings of a civil war are there. I'm open to suggestions of full withdrawl if accompanied by some sort of plan that addresses how to stem that violence. I haven't seen that kind of detailed withdrawl plan yet yet.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The violence cannot be stemmed. (none / 0)

Why do we assume it can?

Sometimes you don't have any options but to lose, and that's where we're at.


by Teaser on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The violence cannot be stemmed. (none / 0)

I agree, but you can cut your losses.


The Wayward Episcopalian
by Transplanted Texan on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 06:20:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

My question would be, do we have a plan to stem the violence if we stay?  I can't see that we do.  Most likely, I expect, is that the genocide will be spread out over more years if we stay.  But given that the violence in Iraq has gotten steadily worse in the 46 months since "Mission Accomplished," I don't see how that's going to change if we stay.

My plan to minimize the violence upon our exit would involve facilitating and protecting those who move from an area where their ethno-religious group is in the minority to one where they're in the majority.  That would reduce the opportunity for groups in the majority in a place to harass and kill minorities within their midst.


by RT on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

Better to get out on our own terms while we still can.  If the Shi'a in the South decide to harrass us on the way out, there may not be much of a way out.


by Mimikatz on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

shameful posturing (none / 0)

yes, its a rw talking point, but is a lw talking point as well.  They know (as does America) the war ends with the purse.  Utterly shameful. I will use the power of my purse,and no longer send $$$ to the DSCC.


by optimusprime on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:39:13 AM EST

Re: Calling Levin (none / 0)

I called and was surprised I got right through. Please keep this Dairy up for a long enough period to get the appropriate exposure. See if you can cross post to Dkos we need to swarm the man!.


by eddieb on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:45:01 AM EST

An important clarification (none / 0)

An important clarification. Senators Biden and Levin are doing exactly what Matt suggests above: using their power to restrict Bush's mandate.

Sen. Biden and Levin's proposal would be BINDING legislation  --  not a non-binding resolution as the linked story suggests. The legislation would repeal the original 2002 war authorization and replace it with a much narrower and achievable mission for our troops in Iraq.

Congress should make clear what the mission of our troops is: to deny terrorists a safe haven, train Iraqis, and help Iraq defend its borders. The legislation would also set as a goal removing from Iraq. To read more, please see Sen. Biden's op-ed in yesterday's Boston Globe:

Congress Should Repeal Its Authorization to use Force in Iraq

Sen. Biden has also said that revisiting the 2002 authorization is the right next step but it cannot be the last step. The United States must also answer a two-word test: "What next?" Sen. Biden and Les Gelb have put forward a 5-point plan for Iraq which offers a roadmap to a political settlement in Iraq that gives its warring factions a way to share power peacefully and us a chance to leave with our interests intact. More details can be seen at:

PlanForIraq.com

Eric Carbone
Biden for President


www.RomeIsBurning.com
by ericcarbone on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:40:42 PM EST

additional point. (none / 0)

sorry, a sentence got truncated from my comment above...

The legislation would also set as a goal removing from Iraq all US combat forces not necessary for this limited mission by early 2008, as the bipartisan Iraq Study Group recommends.

Eric


www.RomeIsBurning.com
by ericcarbone on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 12:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

Matt,

Biden's reauthorization effort is hardly non-binding.  It ties the president's hand and begins to bring our troops home.  How can you even non-bindingly repeal a use of force resolution?  There is a reason the only source you can cite is one reporter with the army times.

You're right that the margins in the senate are thin, but any house bill will likely be faced with the same veto threat.  We'll need republican support to end this war so get working on pursuading them, not attacking our own.


by TWest on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 01:35:13 PM EST

Let the Repigs Accomodate the mjority. (none / 0)

I believe Matt is right on. We need to act like the Majority. We are acting like the minority as usual. Instead of compromising we must force the repigs to Vote for themselves and againts their own party and Busgbag! We should put them in a position where they can be charged with voting againts the troops as they did to the Dems time after time. If they won't join with the majority let the Voters know it and they can replace them with Dems in 08. 65 in the Senate sounds like a nice number to shoot for!


by eddieb on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Biden-Levin Plan to Escalate the War (none / 0)

Matt -

Senators Biden and Levin no more want to "escalate the war" as you put it, than I want to be stuck in a room for two hours, without any means of escape, listening to a pitch from an insurance salesman.  

In a speech at the Brookings Institution last week, Sen. Biden explained the 2002 Iraq War authorization should be repealed because it is "no longer relevant to what U.S. troops are actually doing right now in Iraq."

"We gave the president that power to destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and, if necessary, to depose Saddam Hussein," he stated.  "The WMDs were not there. Saddam Hussein is no longer there. The 2002 authorization is no longer relevant to the situation in Iraq."

And many think he's correct. I agree: that particular resolution is meaningless right now.

Senator Biden and Senator Levin are drafting legislation that would be a different authorization.  It will state what will be the next mission for our troops: to responsibly draw down, while continuing to combat terrorists, train Iraqis and respond to emergencies. "e should make equally clear what their mission is not: to stay in Iraq indefinitely and get mired in a savage civil war," Sen. Biden explained.

I am going to call my Senators (in NJ - Menendez and Lautenberg).  There are several Senate conversations going on right now, and I feel there will be a higher count in favor of this bill than most people think.   Will they get the 60 votes they need?  I'll be very interested to see the outcome here.  Let's revisit this as the legislation gets debated.  

Erin Medlicott
www.JoeBiden.com


by Erin13 on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 04:04:09 PM EST


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