How I Unintentionally Hurt Hillary Clinton at DailyKos

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ANATOMY OF THE WEDGE VOTE ON FLAG BURNING

 The vote in the US Senate was so close that if Hillary had voted for the Flag Amendment, it would have passed. Hillary's "NO" vote prevented the Flag Burning Amendment from passing the US Senate. But, I didn't know that.

Cross-posted at http://francislholland.blogspot.com

I am a well-known supporter of Hillary Clinton's campaign for the US presidency.  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/22/ 94948/8215  Last June, before I was banned from participation at DailyKos, participants at DailyKos angrily challenged me about Hillary Clinton's position on flag burning.  In comments to my first diary at DailyKos, Hillary's critics vehemently alleged that Hillary had supported an Amendment to ban the burning of the American flag.  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/22/ 94948/8215  

Not knowing the truth at the time, I conceded this erroneous fact, while attempting to explain a position that Hillary had never actually taken.  I lacked an adequate understanding of her position and advocacy on the flag-burning issue.

Unfortunately, Hillary's position was much more subtle than I or Hillary's critics knew, and I unknowingly fell into trap in which I misrepresented Hillary's position to Hillary's detriment, in a way that increased opposition to her at DailyKos.  According to Vote-Smart.Org, Hillary did not support the Amendment to ban flag burning, but on two occasions I erroneously said in DK diaries that she did. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/24/ 91131/7415  http://votesmart.org/voting_category.php ?can_id=WNY99268

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For that I apologize to Hillary Clinton and to anyone who may have been misled.  Later, I learned the truth.  The Flag Burning Amendment failed in the US Senate by one vote: Hillary's vote. -http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_repor t/story/426380p-359710c.html

Clinton nixes flag amendment

BY MICHAEL McAULIFF
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU

WASHINGTON - Today may be Flag Day, but don't count on Sen. Hillary Clinton backing a constitutional amendment to ban burning Old Glory.

Clinton (D-N.Y.) has co-sponsored a bill (not an amendment)to ban flag-burning. But she said yesterday she opposes enshrining that in the Constitution - although her vote could turn the tide for a proposed amendment coming up in the Senate later this month.

"I'm voting against the amendment," she said. "I've always been against the amendment."

The flag fight is one of the three items Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) put on the agenda this month that plays well with Republican voters.

Efforts to repeal estate taxes and ban gay marriage failed, but he has a chance with the flag amendment, which has 66 supporters - just one shy of the 67 needed to advance it.

That could shine the light on Clinton, who is in the difficult position of favoring a law but opposing a constitutional change.

"She can explain it legalistically, but that's not going to work, not for a presidential candidate," said University of Virginia political scientist Larry Sabato. "This will just give additional fodder to her critics, on the left and right."

Originally published on June 14, 2006
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_repor t/story/426380p-359710c.html

Here's what I think happened in the US Congress:  The Republicans were looking for a wedge issue to use against Democrats in the 2006 Congressional elections and they settled on the issue of Flag burning as one of those wedge issues.  They believed that if they could get Democratic representatives on record "supporting" flag burning, then they could win seats.  They wanted to paint Democrats with an "anti-American", "unpatriotic"  narrative  that could be used in many ways simultaneously, for example, to blunt Democratic efforts to end the war in Iraq.  So, the Republicans were "on a mission" to highlight their opposition to flag burning while forcing the Democrats to appear to support it.

This is what the Republicans alwaysdo, and all too often they are successful.

Having no issues of substance to run on this fall, with a cupboard bereft of success here at home or overseas, House and Senate GOP leaders are left to scheduling votes that they hope will damage Democrats on guns, gays, abortion, and the flag. According to tomorrow's Post, the GOP leadership plans to schedule votes on values issues in the coming weeks to cause problems for both Kerry and Edwards on things such as ending the assault weapons ban, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, abortion, consider new tax cuts, and the ever-meaningless constitutional amendment to ban flag-burning. http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/0 01240.php   http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/art icles/A20867-2004Mar1.html  http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/do cument.asp?documentID=12850

Republicans don't even care if their wedge issue legislation passes, as long as it helps them to put Democrats in a bad light so that they can prevail in elections.  But, unwilling to let the Republicans succeed this time, Hillary Clinton developed a two-prong strategy:  (1) she opposed the Republican proposed Flag Amendment and (2) proposed a Democratic alternative that would be a statute only,  as a way of  successfully foiling efforts toward an Amendment to the Constitution.  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_repor t/story/426380p-359710c.html  

It looked like a potentially risky gambit, since the bill might conceivably have passed.  The Constitutional Amendment only failed by one vote.

But, even if such a statute passed it would likely have been struck down as unconstitutional under the US Supreme Court's established free-speech precedents.  In Texas v. Johnson, the US Supreme Court found that:

Johnson's conviction for flag desecration is inconsistent with the First Amendment. Pp. 402-420.

(a) Under the circumstances, Johnson's burning of the flag constituted expressive conduct, permitting him to invoke the First Amendment. The State conceded that the conduct was expressive. Occurring as it did at the end of a demonstration coinciding with the Republican National Convention, the expressive, overtly political nature of the conduct was both intentional and overwhelmingly apparent. Pp. 402-406.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ge tcase.pl?court=US&vol=491&invol= 397

Nonetheless, the Republicans perpetually propose to ban flag burning simply for the purpose of driving flag-loving American away from the Democratic Party.

In the context of a strong Republican movement (with some Democratic support) to advocate a Constitutional Amendment to ban burning of the Flag, Hillary had proposed a flag burning law that would not be enshrined in the US Constition.  Like many Congressional Democrats, Hillary was up for re-election and she needed to defeat the flag proposals in a way that would not hurt her re-election campaign  The purpose of Hillary's statutory proposal was to defeat the proposed Constitutional Amendment, but in a way that would not hurt Democrats' chances of winning control of the US Congress.  

Hillary's gambit worked perfectly in the end:  By proposing a seemingly similar bill to compete with the proposed Consitutional amendment, those who supported a ban on flag burning became divided between supporting a Constitutional ban and supporting a statutory ban that would not amend the Consitution.  With anti-flag-burning forces divided between these two proposals, neither of them could muster the votes that were needed to move them forward and so the law stayed as it had been before the debate began, which is what the Democratic left wanted.

But the purists in the Democratic Left didn't like the way in which Clinton defeated the Flag Burning Amendment, and Arriana Huffington's criticism is an example:

TUESDAY'S SENATE debate on flag desecration was emblematic of Hillary Rodham Clinton's ongoing attempt to rebrand herself as a red-state-friendly Dem by supporting a bill that would have criminalized flag descrcration, while still holding on to her liberal bonafides by voting against the Constitutional amendment banning that desecration. It was eating your patriotism cake and having it too. http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/comm entary/la-oe-huffington29jun29,0,1354816 .story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

Actually, that's  exactly what Clinton did.  She successfully expressed support for the US flag while also defeating a Constitutional amendment to ban burning that flag.  Then, she got re-elected in New York by 27 percentage points.  http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/11/8/ 103716/511 Was she wrong?  

The left was angry because they wanted Hillary to vote against the Amendment and suffer politically for it.  They were infuriated when Hillary found a way to defeat the Amendment while strengthening her position with moderate voters.  Because the Left doesn't trust politicians who are strong with moderate voters, the voters whom Democrats most need if we are to retake the Presidency as Bill Clinton did for the Democrats in 1992, re-elected in 1996..  http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/comm entary/la-oe-huffington29jun29,0,1354816 .story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

The Senate rejected by a single vote yesterday an effort to amend the Constitution to allow Congress to ban desecration of the American flag, after a two-day debate freighted with political calculations and sharp disputes over the limits of free speech.

The 66 to 34 vote fell just short of the two-thirds majority required to approve a constitutional amendment and submit it to the states for ratification. It marked the latest setback for congressional attempts to supersede Supreme Court decisions in 1989 and 1990. Justices narrowly ruled that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech under the First Amendment.

As expected, three Republicans -- Robert F. Bennett (Utah), Lincoln D. Chafee (R.I.) and Mitch McConnell (Ky.) -- voted against the amendment. Fourteen Democrats voted for it. The House approved the measure 286 to 130 last year.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062701056. html (Emphasis added.)

The vote in the US Senate was so close that if Hillary Clinton had supported the Flag Amendment it would have passed. Hillary proposed a  an unsuccessful statutory bill to ban flag burning but she refused to support an amendment to the Constitution and even while 14 Democratic senators supported the amendment.  As a result, the Amendment failed by just one vote - Hillary's vote.

Meanwhile, because Democrats were able to express firm support for a statute against a flag burning, they could not be pained as anti-patriotic even though they had voted against amending the Constitution.  This deprived Republicans of a desperately needed wedge issue going into the 2006 Congressional elections.

In the heat of battle, it was easy to be misinformed, misunderstand and misinterpret what Hillary Clinton was doing.  I did.  But, in retrospect, she opposed the Flag Amendment in a way that prevented flag burning from becoming an issue in the November elections.  And gave cover to her fellow Democrats.  If she had voted with Republicans, their Flag Burning Amendment would have passed, but instead she voted with the Democrats and so the Amendment failed.

Of course, DailyKos participants were pre-disposed to believe the worst about Hillary Clinton.  As is so often the case, they were not interested in facts, subtlety or strategy, but only in tarring Hillary Clinton with the broadest brush possible, as their angry and factually incorrect comments to my first diary at DK attest. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/4/22/ 94948/8215  And so they, too, participated in misinforming the reading public about the positions of a leading Democratic candidate for the Presidency.  Ultimately, on flag burning, we were all wrong about Hillary Clinton.



Display:


You should subtitle your post (3.00 / 1)

Anatomy of the Wedge Vote.

Or something to that effect.  Now I am no Hillary fan but I had no idea of the background of her position.  I can't remember your diary back that far, but it was around June that things over at Dkos were becoming quite strange.

Regulars were getting giddy, petty and mob-like.  I think the new ratings system really fueled a frenzy for points and priveleges to downrate fellow posters and the site devolved into spectator sport.
My suspicions were that Markos and his moderators were fully behind the Red Bull quality of the makeover to the dismay of many.

I was so fed up just watching one diarist get piled on for breaking Markos' precious rule on 9/11 conspiracy, watching his humble diary get removed,
I had to stop and think what the hell the site was all about.  I thought. I still had a browser page open with the former diary intact, which was not the greatest piece but entertaining enough.  I smiled.  Then pasted and posted the whole damn diary under my user name with a preample to why.

My way of saying I'm outta here.  Got a lot a play too.  Talk about dodge ball. Very interesting and wierd experience then I was gone.

So don't feel too bad.  I stopped visiting for the better part of last year then went on this past week for the first time in ages.  Only to see Markos' hit piece on Kucinich.  It all came back and then I remembered why I left.

Why were you banned?  Don't tell me it was for being a Clinton supporter.


by edsdet on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 03:05:49 PM EST

Re: How I Unintentionally Hurt Hillary Clinton at (none / 0)

Barbara Boxer and others eventually co-sponsored Bennett/Clinton's flag-burning statute.

It was eventually voted on, as Durbin's amendment to Orrin Hatch's proposed constitutional amendment. HRC voted yes, as did Obama. It failed as well, but almost the entire "liberal wing" voted 'aye'.


by dblhelix on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 03:06:48 PM EST

This was a politically successful chapter for Dems (none / 0)

We had our cake and ate it too.  We utterly frustrated Republican attempts to limit the right to burn the flag, but at the same time our party (including Clinton) successfully avoided being branded as "flag-haters".

It is ironic that in spite of getting everything they wanted substantively, the Left still wants a pound of flesh.

It is also ironic that people at leftist blogs demand a right in the public square that doesn't exist at leftist blogs - the right to unfettered free speech - even to the point of saying things orally and symbolically that others really hate.  So, today you can still burn a flag in America and nobody can stop you, but if you upset people at a "progressive" blog by saying things people don't like, then they can "ban" your speech and shut you down at progressive blogs.

Hillary stood up on the side of free speech when it counted, protecting our Constitutional right to burn the flag and engage in other unpopular speech.  Now, "progressive" blog owners should do their part for free speech, committing themselves to protecting even the speech of people who say things that blog owners find abhorrent.  It's hypocritical to condemn Hillary for her position on free speech, voting for it, when we ban people every day at blogs for saying things that others don't like.


by francislholland on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 03:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This was a politically successful chapter for (none / 0)

doesn't exist at leftist blogs - the right to unfettered free speech

Freedom of speech is grounded in private-property rights. Do you have this complaint for every newspaper that doesn't publish your LTE?


by dblhelix on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 04:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There are some crucial differences (3.00 / 1)

The purpose of a newspaper these days is to make money.  Meanwhile, OSTENSIBLY the purpose of progressive blogs is to foment and facilitate policy debate, encourage involvement in the Democratic Party and increase the success of the Party at accomplishing progressive goals.  

One goal of progressivism is to maintain and promote and teach the public the value of our civil liberties, such as the right to free speech.  It is hard to teach the right to free speech.  It is hard if not impossible to teach the right to free speech to others while steadfastly refusing to practice it ourselves.  That becomes a "do as I say, not as I do" kind of advocacy, otherwise known as "hypocracy".  If it's important to preserve the right to burn the flag in the public square, it must be equally important to preserve the right to speak one's mind in a public policy debate between committed Democrats.  

Just like there is a risk of offending people when you burn a flag, and you have a right to do it anyway, we must defend everyone's right to speak their Democratic peace, even when it offends us.  

If each of us has to have his own blog to freely speak our opinions, then we will end up atomized, like a church that has become 20 churches as members split off to practice in their own ways, no longer communicating with each other or only doing by press releases.  Limiting free speech has the effect of balkanizing the conversation.

Anyway, before we give lecture to Senator Clinton who voted FOR free speech when she courageously voted AGAINST the flag amendment, we should look within our own progressive communities to see if we ourselves practice free speech to the maximum extent possible short of allowing open rioting.  

It is hardly a progressive stance to say that the right to aggressively limit free speech derives from ones ownership rights and proprietary control over the forum.  That's true when you want to hold a protest in a private mall or at Disney Land, but it's hardly a progressive stance to shout "property rights" when responding to free speech claim at a blog.

Again, if Hillary can vote against limits on free speech in the US Senate, even when it was controlled by Republicans, then surely we can find a way not to limit free speech here in progressive blogs, when they are controlled by the most "progressive" of Democrats.


by francislholland on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 04:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There are some crucial differences (none / 0)

The purpose of a newspaper these days is to make money.  Meanwhile, OSTENSIBLY the purpose of progressive blogs is to foment and facilitate policy debate

Stop right here. The blog from which you were banned is the primary, if not, sole source of income for its owner.


by dblhelix on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 07:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Her cake is our cake, too! (3.00 / 1)

You say she wanted to "(1)have her cake and (2)eat it too".  

In this metaphor, part (1), the "cake" she wants to "have" is to avoid passing any bill that would limit free speech rights.  That's the goal that she pursued successfully with her vote against the Constitutional amendment.  That's her cake and our cake and her vote against achieved the goals that we wanted.

We know that she was against the Constitutional Amendment because she VOTED against it at a time when a vote for it would have turned the tide in favor of the Republicans.  So, Hillary has to be given credit for defeating the proposed Constitutional Amendment on flag burning.
For that part, we have to congratulate her, right, since we certainly would have condemned her had she voted the other way?  We all "had our cake" when the Amendment failed!

But then did she "eat it too"?  In this case, the "it" is the political credit for opposing flag burning.  Yes, she does seem to have been credited with opposing flag burning.  The proof is that progressives are angry at her and they cite this as a reason.  But, meanwhile, moderates give her credit for opposing flag burning, which is a positive in a national general election.

So, Hillary DID have her cake (defeating the Amendment with a vote against) and eat it too (getting credit for opposing flag burning.

Democrats got what they wanted substantively and Hillary got what she needed politically, without compromising what the Democrats wanted ubstantively.  She vote AGAINST the Amendment.

If people are angry at her it's because they wanted her to vote AGAINST the proposed amendment AND, AND, AND suffer politically for having voted against the Amendment.  They wanted her to hold a news conference and say she SUPPORTED the right to burn the flag, regardless of the political consequences for her and other Democrats.  They believe that suffering politically, perhaps getting voted out of office like Daschle did, is the mark of a true progressive.  Bulls**t!

Essentially, leftists are angry at Hillary for being TOO successful.  What they forget is that when the Democrats find a way to vote against crap Amendments AND maintain their popularity, that helps ALL Democrats.  

Ultimately leftists got precisely what they wanted substantively:  Democrats defeated the Amendent AND no legislation passed.  If leftists want something more from Clinton still, it's that they want her to suffer.  They are angry because Clinton doesn't suffer political wounds unncessarily.  So, I support her for the same reason that others are angry at her.

If leftists had their way, we'd go into the 2008 election with ALL of our Democratic presidential nominees on record IN FAVOR of the flag burning, both in terms of the substance and in terms of the perception.  Because leftists are certain that EVERYONE favors the right to burn the flag.

In order to preserve the liberty to do things that most people find offensive, we have to concede that the things are offensive while asserting the right of people to do things that offend us.

I can understand that progressives don't understand this difference because look at what happens at progressive blogs.  Progressive blogs jump immediately from the not liking what people say to nullifying the right to say things that are unpopular.  They don't understand that it's possible to dislike someone's speech and still adamantly protect the right for that person (and all of us) to say that which is unpopular.

Hillary protected in the US Constitution a right that doesn't exist at "progressive blogs" She protected the right to unfettered free speech, even flag burning, and even to the extent of doing saying things that others hate.  It is ironic that we "ban" people for disfavored speech at progresive blogs while demanding unfettered free speech to the extent of flag burning out in the "real world".  Free speech starts at home.
 


by francislholland on Sun Feb 25, 2007 at 03:21:25 PM EST

I Unintentionally Hurt Hillary Clinton at DailyKos (none / 0)

Was Hillary actually the very last person to actually vote no? If not, your whole argument just completely fell apart.

Any one of the nos could have voted yes. Maybe you should make a diary about each of them as well.


by okamichan13 on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 12:41:28 AM EST

Last person (3.00 / 1)

Actually, other than noting that he's puffing his favored candidate, I don't see that it has any impact on the article. If she had voted yes on that vote, there would have been a different outcome. True, there are a number of other senators about which the same could be said, but that is really incidental to the main topic of this article, which is about his earlier mis-statements about Hillary's position.


by Zimbel on Mon Feb 26, 2007 at 12:43:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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