Congressman Pascrell Slams Clinton On Iraq "Theater"

This is exactly what we need from members of Congress, and I hope we see more of it.  Congressman Pascrell, who didn't have a great voting record on Iraq, now supports Murtha's position.  He also apologized and is a fire-breather against Iraq.

Most importantly, he's participating in the debate as it's happening by pointing out that Hillary Clinton is just engaging in theater by refusing to admit her mistake.

I said a year and a half ago that I made a mistake.  I mean, I confessed.  But I mean, regardless of whether it was done in good faith, I did not blame George Bush for my mistake, either, although I think he has lied and deceived the American people.  I have to be responsible for my own actions.  I made the mistake.  I apologized to my constituents.  They accepted that apology.....

I certainly think a lot of Hillary but I think that this is theater more than anything else.  You gotta fess up if you make a mistake.

Clinton took every position possible on Iraq.  She argued against preemptive war even as she voted for it, and then was silent on preemption for years until she got pressure from the left.  She said that a vote for the war would decrease the chance it would happen.  She criticized the competence of Bush while doing nothing to pressure him.

Above all, her argument on Iraq, for five years, is 'nothing can be done'.  If you claim that Hillary took a specific position on Iraq, it's easy for her research shop to send you information on how she in fact criticized that particular approach.  She did.  But that's because she criticized every position on Iraq.  Look at this incoherent dribble from her speech authorizing the vote on the war.

Because bipartisan support for this resolution makes success in the United Nations more likely, and therefore, war less likely, and because a good faith effort by the United States, even if it fails, will bring more allies and legitimacy to our cause, I have concluded, after careful and serious consideration, that a vote for the resolution best serves the security of our nation. If we were to defeat this resolution or pass it with only a few Democrats, I am concerned that those who want to pretend this problem will go way with delay will oppose any UN resolution calling for unrestricted inspections.

She's making three mutually exclusive arguments.  One, her vote for authorizing force makes war less likely.  Two, she's framing a vote against the war as being the vote of someone who 'pretends the problem will go away with delay'.  Three, she's arguing that a vote against the authorization means that you don't support inspections through the UN.

Now she's able to say that she wanted inspections, she didn't want war, and the critics of her vote misunderstood her.  Clinton took all sides of the issue in her arguments, but her vote was crystal clear.  She voted for war.  Lots of other people did too, but at least they aren't lying to us about it and have learned something.  

We're all tired of this theater.  Good for Pascrell.

UPDATE: Credit where credit is due. Here's Clinton just now on Iran:

It would be a mistake of historical proportion if the administration thought that the 2002 resolution authorizing force against Iraq was a blank check for the use of force against Iran without further Congressional authorization.

Nor should the president think that the 2002 resolution authorizing force after the terrorist attacks of 9/11 in any way authorizes force against Iran. If the administration believes that any, any use of force against Iran is necessary, the president must come to Congress to seek that authority.

More please.



Display:


9-11 connection (3.00 / 2)

Dont forget that she also used 9-11 as an excuse for her vote.


by Pravin on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:03:15 PM EST

and tied Al Qaeda (3.00 / 2)

directly to Saddam in her floor speech which Edwards and others did not.


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pascrell and Clinton (none / 0)

Pascrell used a lot of joint billboards and lawn signs advertising for "The Democratic Team."  That gets a lot of points in my book.  He doesn't have a great voting record but it's a lot better than Rob Andrews.  The public said no to this war on November 7.  Meanwhile, not only has this Republican Administration added another 300 or so American dead, it also wants to expand this war.  This is a partisan war built on Republican votes, Republican lies, and Republican decisions.  Remember 97% of Republicans in the House and Senate voted for this war but only 42% of Democrats.

Don't tie us into any responsibility for this war, Senator Clinton.  It's their war.  Use it or make them lose it (end the war).


by David Kowalski on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:16:11 PM EST

Correct me if I'm wrong (3.00 / 1)

but it seems that liberal blogs have not yet come out in clearly in favor of Feingold's defund the war amendment. Support of Feingold strikes me as the right place to be, morally if not politically and probably politically as well.

How are we going to get Congresspeople to support Feingold if there's not a clear message coming from the netroots?


by david mizner on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:29:33 PM EST

Re: Correct me if I'm wrong (none / 0)

Maybe we don't all agree that it is the right strategy to stop the escalation and begin redeployment.  I don't.


by Yoshimi on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:37:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're in a small (none / 0)

minority, I think, and in any case my suggestion was directed to those people who want the Dems to take action against the war. The question is what form that action should take. I don't think defuding the escalation or support for a withdrawal plan is enough. We need to drain its lifeblood.


by david mizner on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:48:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're in a small (none / 0)

Well how about getting a dairy going on this subject.  I agree we are divided over defunding and mandated withdrawal and it appears our majority in Congess is too.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:32:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What you're doing isn't productive, Matt (3.00 / 0)

"I said a year and a half ago that I made a mistake.  I mean, I confessed."

You cite this quote as an example of what a candidate/elected official should say.  But, a "confession" is what you offer when you have committed a crime.  If all Democratic officials start "confessing" then we're not going to have anyone left who isn't a felony "flip-flopper".

What you've got now is a growing bunch of Democratic politicians groveling before an angry anti-war constituency that wants an apology more than it wants to win the 2008 Presidential race.  I believe that the longer Hillary Clinton resists this sort of groveling, the stronger she will seems to most of America.

Please admit that you only want Hillary to confess because you believe it will ruin her campaign?

Please admit that you want Hillary to confess principally because Edwards has and you're afraid that refusing to confess puts Hillary at a strategic advantage vis a vis Edwards?

Is demanding confessions from Democratic officials going to bring the trooops home?  NO!

As I said yesterday, let's admit that whether to confess or not is a strategic decision that has to be made on the basis of whether or not it will help or hurt a campaign.  You think, perhaps, that it helps while I think that in this case it hurts.

Let's let Charles Darwin solve the riddle.  If confessing helps, then Edwards will win.  If NOT confessing helps, then Hillary will win.  

But, if they BOTH confess then we will never know which one helps or hurts.  That hurts our empirical study of confessions AND leaves us with two candidates who have both done the same thing, so if it's wrong then we're doubly fucked!  Let the voters choose between a confessor and a non-confessor and I'll accept whatever the Democratic primary voters decide.  Stop trying to narrow their choices!

Vive la difference and let the best woman win!


by francislholland on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:29:36 PM EST

strategic decisions + political cover (3.00 / 2)

"let's admit that whether to confess or not is a strategic decision"

Hillary's strategic decision was to vote for war while simultaneously claiming she was against it. She built her political cover and now she's determined to hide behind it. I think the point you're missing here is that the people who want Hillary to apologize now are Hillary supporters who can't reconcile their view of her with her actions (or in this case, action).

I'm less worried about the Democratic primary becoming an "empirical study" than I am about the general election. Are Democrats really so desperate to see if a pro-war candidate can win in 2008?


by chass on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: strategic decisions + political cover (none / 0)

The people who want HRC to apologize are not HRC supporters. One man stood up in New Hampshire and asked her to do so. The chances that he was a real HRC supporter are slim to non-existent. He said he was not prepared to listen to her views on other issues until she had apologized. That doesn't sound like a supporter to me.


by kundalini on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

one man stood up in New Hampshire (none / 0)

From Salon.com, quoting Roger Tilton, the man from New Hampshire:

"I asked her what I thought was an easy, softball question that she could knock out of the park," Tilton writes in an e-mail message. "I spoke slowly and deliberately to get a quick answer, to put the issue behind her so I, and other primary voters like me, can support her. I agree with her on so many of the other issues."

So I stand by my statement that it is supporters, or at least would-be supporters, like Tilton who most want to hear Hillary admit that voting for the Iraq invasion was a mistake. Those of us who don't support her are perfectly willing to accept that she's content with the vote she cast.


by chass on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 01:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There's a real world out there (3.00 / 3)

Like I mentioned the other day, if Hillary would stop talking about every hypothetical except what a competent leader would be doing today, I'd get interested.  But if you pay close attention, she talks about all sorts of hypotheticals, past and future, without ever talking about the present. Why? Because if she tried to actually talk about legitimate leadership, people would wonder why she wasn't legitimately leading.


by Lucas O'Connor on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:31:52 PM EST

Hillary "Leading" on Iraq in 2003 (3.00 / 2)

Here is a terrific 15-minute video from the eve of war, March 2003.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2c P8

Hillary talks, starting at about minute seven, about her vote to go to war, Saddam, and WMDs.  Code Pink (women against the impending war) meet with Hillary and this 15-minute video is a moving and instructive look at "leadership" in action.  It puts the lie to Hillary's recent statements, especially as she here claims to have had some doubts about the war but, independently of the Bush Administration, examined the case for war and decided to supported it. Her only, only, reservation was that Bush wanted to cut taxes as he proceeded to war!

The "leadership" and good judgment here came from in front of the podium, not behind it.  It is hard not to cry at what could have been, especially as the women resume singing.


by Arthurkc on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:23:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Congressman Pascrell (3.00 / 0)

I have to agree.  I had trouble with Edwards vote, and it took me a long time, but I eventually came to the conclusion that he has learned from his mistake.   I support him now in spite of his bad vote in 2002.

Senator Clinton has played it so many ways I still don't know why or what her current position is.  I'm not supposed to.  Is there any there, there?    


by littafi on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:40:08 PM EST

No more apologies (none / 0)

Frankly I hope HRC puts the knife into Pascrell.

Apology, apology, apology. The public will think we're incompetent if we keep apologising. Stop apologising. No more.

Edwards shouldn't have apologised for the bloggers previous writings. Hillary shouldn't have to apologise for her votes. She made them. Live with it. Vote for someone else in the primaries if necessary.


by kundalini on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:46:20 PM EST

Re: No more apologies (none / 0)

John Edwards did not apologize for the bloggers previous writings.  He said he did not like the writings, he would not use language like that, and they would not write like that for him.  He also said he would not fire them because everyone deserves a fair shake or something like that.  They wrote those things on personal blogs prior to working for him.  

Obama did apologize for telling the truth about deaths in Iraq (wasting lives), but that was more about his choice of words that quickly were misconstrued.  Not a big deal to me.

Edwards did not apologize per se for his 2002 AUMF vote.  In November 2005, he said, "I was wrong."  He was.  So I'm glad he came to grips with it.  The first step to getting right on the war is admitting you had a problem, i.e., voting for the AUMF.  One can not learn from a mistake until one perceives it as a mistake.

That's Hilary's big problem.  It's too late now.  She's stuck.  Karma.  


by littafi on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:32:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No more apologies (none / 0)

Sounds like you are subscribing to the view that the perceptions and nuances of domestic US politics, and getting elected, are more important than clearing the decks and taking significant action on urgent issues.

I personally believe that the primary candidates have an opportunity to lead the debate on the war in Iraq and influence what is going on in Congress right now.  If she cleared up the ambiguity of her position on Iraq it would enable her to provide some positive input on what is going on now regarding ending the war rather than blaming it on Bush and giving us promises on what she would do after we elect her.  That would be leadership, and both of her opponents have already done it.  Who's side is she on in this debate?  Her own, frankly.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No more apologies (none / 0)

The war was George Bush's fault. Got it. It's a simple message and the electorate can understand it.

Why do democrats have to rush around confusing the issue by saying that Edwards or HRC were to blame? They weren't. Neither of them would have invaded Iraq had they been president.

I want a democratic president in 2008. I'd be delighted if it was Edwards, Gore, or Obama. Hey I'd even accept Clark. But my first choice is Hillary Clinton.

Rather too many people on MyDD seem happy to trash the chances of democratic candidates in the hope that their favourite gets the nomination. Shame on you. Have you learnt nothing from 2000?

Shame on you.


by kundalini on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:56:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No more apologies (none / 0)

Give it a rest, this isn't a popularity quest.  And it isn't about electing a woman president, either.  Twenty-two Democratic senators voted against the AUMF in 2002 and Hillary wasn't one of them.  She has some explaining to do and as I mentioned above she could be doing something more to help other Democrats end this war in the meantime.  As both of the other candidates have already done.

If you and Hillary agree, as you seem to do, that we should all line up behind her like so many ducks and get her elected, and be content to let this war drag on in the meantime as a political ploy to that end, then shame on both of you too.  Sheesh.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 05:40:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

View the big picture (3.00 / 0)

Every Democrat out there running for President should give themselves the best chance to win.  While I support HRC, I don't want to see Obama, or Edwards make costly mistakes.  One of them may well be the nominee and they will have the responsibility of taking back the White House from the Republicans.  

HRC admitting a "mistake" with regards to Iraq would be a huge blunder on her part.  Sure, it may make a lot of people in the party feel better.  Big deal.   If she is the nominee her Republican opponent would use those words against her, and hammer her repeatedly.  

As I have said before the commercial would right it itself.  Something like "on the biggest vote of her life HRC said she made a mistake.  In times like these we can't afford anymore mistakes" (images of terrorists and mushroom clouds in the background).

I suspect a lot of people who are calling for her to admit this mistake are people who support others and want to see her damage her chances.  Certainly anyone calling on her to admit a mistake is not viewing the larger picture.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:48:35 PM EST

Re: View the big picture (3.00 / 2)

You are wrong.  While I am not an HRC supporter, I will ask you: How can you trust her judgment?  If Smiek can bamboozle her, what would stop someone from bamboozling her in the future?  Do you want someone with suspect judgment running this country?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 03:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trust judgement? (none / 0)

This is the same argument Ali G made in his interview with Newt Gingerich about a woman president.  Ali G asks Newt what if we had a woman president and she fell in love with Saddam Hussein?  Newt answers that the type of woman that would be elected president would not fall for Saddam.  Are you siding with Ali G?

Hillary Clinton was not anti-war in 2003 and is not anti-war now.  You are trying to reconcile her statements with a position she does not hold.  Not everyone who disagrees with Bush on Iraq is necessarily anti-war.  You need to find an anti-war candidate.  But don't expect them to intervene in Darfur or the next Rwanda.

You want to use Iraq as a litmus test without coming to conclusions about our foreign policy goals, what they should be and principles for conduct of foreign policy.  Bush policy is "shoot first, diplomacy =appeasement".  There is a lot of nuance foreign policy ground between the extreme Bush militant unilateralism and isolationist anti-war.


by bakho on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 09:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trust judgement? (none / 0)

What are you talking about?  My point is that she couldn't, or didn't want to, see through Smirk's lies.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 09:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: View the big picture (none / 0)

They just want you to be so bamboozled with half-truths and mixed metaphors that you give up thinking clearly and vote for Hillary just because you really, really should and any argument is pointless.  It gets to me too, my brain can't handle incomplete thoughts and sentances which change context in the middle of an idea.

It's just a tactic, they aren't actually listening to what they are saying.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 01:41:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Timing? (none / 0)

I can't help but note that Hillary's statement on Iran has only emerged after the immediate crisis has passed and Gates, Bush and Condi have all made emphatic public statements that the US has no intention of attacking Iran anyhow.

It would have been a whole lot more convincing, and useful, a week ago.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 04:38:33 PM EST

Clinton On (none / 0)

Clinton is so staged.  There isn't one honest thing about her.  She is a scripted, empty shell spewing talking points designed to move right and triangulate.  Now if the Hillary that use to live in the 60s ever came back to life and shook off her husband and his pals, that would be a Hillary I would be willing to listen to.  


Follow the money
by dkmich on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 05:37:21 PM EST

Re: Clinton On (none / 0)

I agree with you about her present persona.  The only problem with the Hillary of the Sixties is that she was mostly a Republican.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 05:47:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton On (none / 0)

Sorry, that was a cheap shot, even for me.  Let's say the Hillary of the late Sixties and the early Seventies; I would like to see more of that Hillary, too.


by Shaun Appleby on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 06:24:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary not against Saddam going (3.00 / 1)

The Hillary position would be that getting rid of Saddam was the right thing to do, but that Bush has made a mess of the project by occupying Iraq and trying to run their country.  Many Senators who voted for the resolution would have used the power to put pressure on Saddam to leave into exile the way Idi Amin was forced out.  This is the Kerry position as well.  I don't think it is the right position.  Plus they were wrong to trust a liar like Bush.  After all, the resolution did not declare war on Iraq and did not mandate that the US invade, it did leave open those options, after the alternatives were supposedly exhausted (which Bush did not do).  

A lot of people including Bill Clinton said that a more permanent solution was needed for Iraq.  Maybe Senators are more trusting and believe that a president will not lie to them especially on something as important as war? A lot of people thought that way, that a president could not lie about war because it would doom his presidency.  They were wrong Bush lied.  They were right, it has doomed his presidency.  


by bakho on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 08:45:37 PM EST

Re: Hillary not against Saddam going (none / 0)

Can you keep all that kind of stuff in your head and drive safely?  Whatever you are reading should have warning labels on it.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 01:43:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Congressman Pascrell Slams Clinton On Iraq (3.00 / 1)

If the administration believes that any, any use of force against Iran is necessary, the president must come to Congress to seek that authority.

That's just talk and posturing. If Clinton wants to redeem herself, a good start would be to introduce legislation making that requireement law. Such a binding resolution has been introduced in the House. If it has been introduced in the Senate, Hillary wasn't the one who introduced it.
by Alexander on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 09:24:27 PM EST

Hillary not "anti-war" (none / 0)

People can be in favor of leaving Iraq and still not be anti-war and still think ousting Saddam was a good thing.  Hillary is a strong supporter of diplomacy and international institutions.  This was the theme of the Clinton foreign policy.  

Hillary is not isolationist.  Bill Clinton started out on the isolationist side leaving Somalia and refused to intervene in Rwanda.   Learning from his mistake in Rwanda, Clinton did intervene in Haiti to end the military government that was creating refugee problems.  Clinton again intervened in the former Yugoslavia first in Bosnia and then Kosovo.  These interventions were necessary to prevent waves of refugees from flooding Europe.

Clinton continued the Iraq policy of containing Saddam and escalated to targeted bombing when containment was threatened.  However, this policy received much criticism because of the negative effects on innocent Iraqis.  By the time he left office, Bill Clinton believed that Saddam needed to go.  Thus in 2002, we see Hillary supporting the idea of ousting Saddam.

Hillary disagreement with Bush on Iraq has to do with the Bush failure to internationalize the Iraq project, the Bush disdain for diplomacy and the Bush dismissal of and hostility to international institutions.  Hillary very much believes Saddam was bad, he needed to go, good he is gone, but Iraq did not have to turn into the mess that Bush has made.  So it is not surprising that she does not apologize for supporting the ouster of Saddam while being highly critical of the Bush lack of diplomacy and disdain for international institutions.

This is a different position from Obama, Feingold and others who were anti-war from the start.  We know how they would have handled Iraq.  How  would they have handled Rwanda with the information available at the beginning?  Kosovo?  Bosnia?

Bill Clinton started out shaky in foreign policy, but got better as his administration progressed.  We could do worse than bringing back some of the Clinton team to run foreign policy.  My question for the other candidates is who their foreign policy team might include?  This is at least as important as pronouncements on Iraq, because the foreign policy decisions are more difficult when the decision has real consequences.

I am impressed with the negotiating skills of Wes Clark and Bill Richardson.  But they are not anti-war either.


by bakho on Wed Feb 14, 2007 at 09:30:53 PM EST

Re: Hillary not "anti-war" (none / 0)

After reading your post closely I am still wondering what you are suggesting.

Are you saying it was right to perform regime change on Saddam Hussein but wrong to invade, or attributing that view to Hillary?

That Hillary was attempting to continue foreign policies established by the Clinton administration?

That authorising military force in Iraq was OK so long as diplomacy was used first by a neoconservative hegemonist and nobody could have expected to see this coming?

I'm confused.  You don't happen to be one of Hillary's speechwriters by any chance, do you?  I need a drink.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 01:36:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this another sly manoever? (none / 0)

Her statement is not all that revealing. She still could vote in favor of Bush's next war!I think that this is simply more triangulating.


by waldo on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 02:14:00 AM EST

Re: Congressman Pascrell Slams Clinton (none / 0)

Pascrell, my Representative, is particularly sensitive to all this because of the large number of Muslims in our district.


by Bob H on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 06:47:45 AM EST

Whenever I read things like this (none / 0)


Look at this incoherent dribble from her speech authorizing the vote on the war.

from a blogger, that's when I know the blogger doesn't want to let the reader decide for themselves if something is incoherent dribble or not.  Because if it was left to the reader to determine as such, one could come to different conclusions.

Spin away, blogger.  Spin.


by Stewieeeee on Thu Feb 15, 2007 at 09:09:35 AM EST


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