Peering out from my liberal bubble, I see nothing wrong with this. Fox is making sure that everybody knows Obama thinks the war was wrong? That's the majority position these days.

No doubt they will try really hard to find a narrative that sticks. That's what they do. And with 20 months to innovate, I'm sure they will come up with something. Yes, I'm counting to the general - Obama roo00lz!

But here's the thing. I think the right wing message machine is going to get into such overdrive over Obama (and Hillary) that they will show even the lowest-information voter their true selves, raw racism and all. People will figure it out. Unhinged lunacy versus Mr. Unflappable serious optimist.

(Yes, I may be overly optimistic. Or I am also thinking of entering a monastery on a remote island for the next 20 months. And no Faux for me in any case.)

It's silly that Fox News is focusing so much on this honest, though politically incorrect, slip. I think most Americans understand what he meant.

It's does raise a point though about his readiness to handle the scrutiny of this campaign. There will be a lot of camera watching his every move hoping that he will make a news-worthy mistake.

He said that the lives of those soliders were wasted. True, but not PC.

Haha, My friend Dagmar is in the frame, on the very left side of the group of people behind Obama! We were at the rally, and had gotten there early. I could have gone up on stage too, but I didn't want to watch the back of his head :P   I'll upload some higher quality pics in a bit.

Fox News caters to wingnuts in the first place. There were practically zero votes for Obama among the Fox audience to begin with.

Fox pulled out all the stops months before the election last year, and it did nothing to boost Bush's ratings or sink any particular Democrat. After all these years the Conventional Wisdom finally recognizes Fox as the right-wing network, and news viewers are aware of their intentions. Their value to the VRWC is in keeping the base frothing and providing the appropriate spin for anti-Democrat smears.

He haqd me at  Yeeeaaarrgghh.

Trick, as with Edwards and the right wing Catholic group, is to turn it back on them vs. apologizing for speaking the truth.

That the president and vice-president have betrayed the sacred trust our men and women in the military who have a right to expect that their sacrifice will not be wasted on a war that was lost before it began, a war based on lies and incompetence, a war in which more US lives are going to be sacrificed to cover up the misdeeds of those in command.  It was and is a criminal waste of our best and brightest for which this administration must be called to account.

Something like that...Obama can articulate it better but the idea is refocus on the the evil doers, Bush Jr and Cheney.

It'll all be variations of the Corker theme:

"He's just not right (white)."

Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine now!!

This latest smear, like the Madrassah one, isn't going to stick. Obama isn't Kerry (circa 2004, not 1972). He slammed down Howard within hours, froze out Fox, and has been firing shots across Hillary's bow for some time now. This guy fights, and voters like that. If he wanted to, he could have Hannity in tears within 5 minutes. Attacking him for being too liberal or un-American won't work because he's proud of being liberal and rejects the idea that it makes one un-American.

But they'll keep coming at him until something does stick. Who cares. It'll inevitably be the sort of crap that retarded and hate-filled right-wing bigots go for, and they weren't ever going to vote for him anyway. His concern is holding onto and expanding his support in the left and middle, and the way to do that is to keep on doing what he has been doing, and not show any weakness, hesitation or doubt.

I like this guy. I may not agree with everything he says and supports, and still wish he had a few more years of national experience. But right now I don't see anyone approaching him in terms of his stands on the issues and how he's going about trying to push them along--along with political smarts and a fearsome self-assurance. Name one serious Dem candidate for '08 who has called for us to be out of Iraq within a year? I didn't think so.

He scares the shit out of the right because they know he can beat anyone they put up against him. And, barring catastrophe, I believe that he will.

Barack Obama won't be using that word again with regards to the troops.

If the war was unecessary then of course the soldiers lives were wasted.

Why are you even posting the clip?.......You are just spreading FOXNEWS propaganda

There's a desperate quality in the alternate universe that wingnuts call home. The usual broth of fears, smears, and queers, with a jigger of racism, just isn't palatable to most Americans.

The modern conservative movement is based on being outsiders, running against communism, liberalism in the media, in big government, a battle against some vague, amorphous, yet ultimately insidious force that is corrupting America.

Now they have Bush's record of failure, incompetence, and corruption to defend, and they still think they are going to use the same playbook, while the majority of the American people want them to accept responsibility.

They are truly fucked, because they only have one playbook.

Fox Chicago ran a poll Sunday night to see if people agreed with Obama postion on leaving Iraq. Sad to say Fox viewers were 55% stay and fight 45% believed in Obama. This tells me that Fox has the "28%" of the country watching them all the time. We have a saying here in Northern Illinois about a local newspaper that they do not report the news they write the news Fox also does this watch and listen one time and you will agree.

I think most Americans have come to the same conclusion.  I'll tell you straight out!  If people who oppose the war don't support a candidate when he tells the truth, then how are we ever going to stop the war?

Death is unalloyed and the truth about death needs to be unalloyed as well.

I have lurked on this board for awhile, but I have to join after reading this hit piece on Senator Obama.  I am going to do this as respectfully as I can, the author of this dairy obviously is loyal to another Democrat in the race.  I think it's really wrong to continue to use the right-wing tactics to try and bring this man down, because you won't do it, it won't happen.  Now, I'm a follower of Christ, I believe in my heart that God has put Senator Obama here for this time in history.  I'm a supporter of Sentor Obama and I believe he will win the nomination and win the Presidency.  This is my prayer.

The great thing about the Democratic Party is that we are a rainbow of beautiful colors, attitudes and gifts.  I don't think it is wise for us to use what other use against us just to make a point.  

But they didn't "die for their country". They died following orders, which is what soldiers do, but you are conflating "Duty" and "Worth".

Junior officers are taught from day one that their job is to accomplish the mission and bring their men back with an emphasis on both.

Dial it back a notch and put it into monetary terms. What would you say about the junior executive who said: "The Miller contract was a mistake and is now a mistake, but millions of dollars sacrificed for their corporation are never a waste."

The fact that those dollars were just following orders, and gallently marched into the Valley of Miller, doesn't mean they were not wasted. To maintain that soldiers lost in an impossible mission were not 'wasted' is to treat them like kleenex: useful to manufacturers of ribbon magnets, but oh so disposable.

   Obama's right about the waste and the more Fox goes after him, the more I want to support him.

We need to take a breath and avoid obsessing about the Foxist Noise Channel and its viewers. Matt's approach is a good one: monitor Fox only to highlight its most outrageous, irrational agitprop for well-deserved derision by the reality-based community. There is no point in wasting any energy trying to bring reason to the True Believers in the Rove/Cheney/Bush/Fox alternative universe.

As approval ratings for The Decider tumble to the low to mid-thirties (a CBS poll on Jan. 22, 2007 even dropped his approval rating down to 28 percent), is there really any reason to think that they can drop much further, into the low twenties or even down to the teens?

Probably not.

Even if The Decider were to sprout horns, fangs, and a forked tail, his True Believers would remain convinced that he is the Chosen One.

The absolute floor for his support is approximately 30 percent, the carefully assembled Rovian Hard Core. Here is why:

--35 percent of Americans (and 67 percent of Republicans) still think that invading and occupying Iraq was a good idea

--35 percent approve of the use of torture against insurgent or terrorist suspects

--67 percent (or even 74 percent, depending on the poll) of Republicans think that Bush's troop "surge" to escalate the war in Iraq is a good idea

--30 percent of Americans think that Big Business has the right amount of influence (22 percent) or too little influence (8 percent) on the Bush Administration

--29 percent disapprove of interracial marriage

--32 percent consider themselves to be "born-again" Christians

--25 percent think that the Rapture/Second Coming will occur in 2007

--24 percent think that automatic assault weapons should continue to be sold to the public

--20 percent (and 81 percent of evangelical fundamentalists) believe the creationists' literalist dogma that God created the entire cosmos 6,000 years ago

--37 percent think that the teaching of creationism (or the latest version, Intelligent Design) should replace the teaching of evolution

--17 percent think that abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape or incest

--39 percent admit to harboring prejudice against Muslims

--27 percent of Illinois voters cast ballots for the certifiably extremist Alan Keyes rather than for Barack Obama in 2004

--74 percent (yes--three-fourths!) of Republican voters and an astonishing 84 percent of Republican members of Congress deny that human release of greenhouse gases causes global warming

These polls reflect what Karl Rove has spent his life creating:  a rock-solid base of credulous gun-totin', SUV-drivin', Bible-thumpin', Rapture-awaitin', ignorance-embracin', global-warming-denyin', evolution-dismissin', science-rejectin', contraception-and-abortion-rights-opposi n', tolerance-refusin', gay-bashin', Constitution-shreddin', civil rights-denyin', Bill-of-Rights-ignorin', anti-race-mixin', Confederate-flag-displayin', Fox-News-believin', Rush-Limbaugh-admirin', foreigner-despisin', Muslim-demonizin', militia-joinin', perpetual-war-lovin', torture-approvin', war-and-oil-profit-cheerin', robber-baron-servin', Fuehrer-enablin' social conservatives.

These poll numbers largely, though not perfectly, overlap. Some abortion foes will feel even more strongly about the loss of life resulting from the unnecessary invasion and occupation of Iraq. Some gun enthusiasts will feel strongly about protecting the environment and curbing global warming. Some viewers of the Foxist Noise Channel will have doubts about skewing economic and tax policies primarily for the benefit of big business and the wealthiest one percent.

All the same, no matter what blunders he makes, The Decider will still have an unshakeable Rovian Base approving of his actions. It is clearly possible for Rove and the Foxist Noise machine to fool 30 percent of the people 100 percent of the time. They can also fool an additional 5 percent of the voting public almost all of the time.

They have faith, you see, in the righteousness of The Decider's cause.

However, Rove's effort to apply his Texas-based political formula of divide-and-rule to the whole country has left fully 65 percent of the population within the reality-based universe.

The 18th century Enlightenment philosopher and deist Voltaire once wrote in a letter:
"I always made one prayer to God, which is extremely short. Here it is: 'O my God, make our enemies quite ridiculous!' God granted it."

Thanks to Karl Rove, the same prayer seems to have been answered today for the pragmatists and progressives in the reality-based community.

Of course, in some areas the unreachable Rovian Hard Core will amount to more than a majority. But even in the Deep South, Kentucky, Oklahoma, Utah, and Idaho there will be the odd Congressional seat or local urban election that can be competitive for a Democratic pragmatist or even a progressive. Consider, for example, Rocky Anderson, the progressive mayor of Salt Lake City. And in the rest of the country there are increasingly bright prospects for Democratic sweeps.

Karl Rove has ensured that the Republican Party has adopted the values and antebellum outlook of the Deep South, thereby turning it into more of a regional party than a national one. Rove has handed pragmatists and progressives a historic opportunity elsewhere.

Can they seize it?  Can they organize the reality-based community--fully 65 percent of the voting public? Can Senator Barack Obama serve as their catalyst and inspiration?

It'll be interesting to see if they can mash this with the 'is he black or white he can't even decide!' theme

Ann Coulter pulled the trigger on that one three years ago.  Remember?  

The standards narrative is:  

1. The Democrat doesn't really know who he is, he's wishy-washy.  

2. The Republican may not be the smartest guy in the  room, and he may be a little volatile, but hey!  isn't that the kind of guy you want on your side in a dangerous world?  

Every.  Fucking.  Election.  Is.  The.  Same.  
.

I am a cavalry scout in the united stated army. This anti war shit really pisses me off. We are over in theatre fighting while you peaple are home safe with your familys. We get no support from the american peaple and that really hurts. It hurts our moral when we see the news and hear all this anti war talk. We are the ones here fighting it. Not YOU! This war would be over by now if ther wasnt so many fucking laws on how we have to fight it. It would be over if peaple wernt such fucking pussys. Wars need to fought like they have been in the past. Ther is no place for media on the battle field.This is a political war and thats why it is so fucked up. I beleve in what im fighting for. I love to see how happy children are to see us and all the things we give them. Things would be much worse in iraq if we wernt patroling everyday. Terrorist attcks would triple. Civilian cassualties would be high. I am proud to fight in the united states army and i will gladly give my life for my country. Kiss my fucking ass Obama and all that support you.

Cavscout, you need to understand a few things, firstly no disrespect but you have just declaired yourself as a stereotype. If you had bothered to read everyone's post you would get that everyone here KNOWS its a political war and that it is F'd up.

Next  you do get support from the american people, nearly everyone is supporting you and believes you have done a good job and done your best. We are not here debating that. What are debating is how little value the people in charge feel your sacrafices are worth. And in addition how they are willing to continue to have you make those sacrafices without giving us and you a reasonable explanation.

You and your commrades (sp?) are not really in a position to ask questions, demand the truth, or hold your leaders accountable, you have a job to do. But the rest of us can speak up for you, and can demand to know if it is really worth your sacrafice, we can make them tell us why, we have a duty to do so as much as you have a duty to serve as best you can.

We are trying to be responsible and just trusting our leaders without caution, reservation or questioning would be irrisponsible of us. But it is completely different for you, you have an obligation to trust that you are being told the truth and to act accordingly, no one is giving you shit for that.

But the rest of us have another duty and responsibility, and that is to hold the president and the rest of capitol hill accountable for their actions. In the constitution of our great nation it outlines the idea that they answer to us. You might answer to them while in uniform but one day that have to answer to you too. And you might not like the answers they give you, and will be in a position to tell them they were wrong.

Further more, there is no conclusive evidence that terrorist attacks would triple. Strategically speaking, without an enemy in front of them the terrorist would be vying for control and would probably be detered from any unfied front because of internal politics on thier own end.  But putting that aside let us consider this...

Our greatest moral imperitive is not to be responsible for the welfare of the people of Iraq, but the people of the United States. In all honesty I think alot of us would feel better and safe if majority of you were able to come home and provide us personally with the security and safety of your presence that the Iraqi people have had all this time. I would feel alot safer personally against potential threats from internal and external forces knowing, that our military was here guarding the home front instead of spread thin. ( Recalling the fall of the roman empire at this point.)

Further more, wouldn't you Cavscout personal feel better if the money that has gone to the war all this time "could" have been spent in some portion in your community, your home town, to make things better?

We are not criticizing soldiers here, we are asking "is there some better way that this could've went?" "Were we lied to" "maybe we could have resolved this sooner at the expense of less lives" "do our troops deserve the burden of liberating people who have nothing better to do that kill each other over religion?"
"Who decided this was thier responsibility?"

These are fair questions and we are asking them with YOU and others like you in mind.

I'm glad you are proud to serve, but it is people like us that will help insure that you can continue to do so with a clear conscience, and hopefully without coming to harm.

I hope you can understand where I'm coming from with this. God Bless.