Christmas Eve political junkies

The Obama team has been pretty open for months about their strategy in Iowa, here's one of the most recent signals, from November 26:

The objectives of Obama's team are straightforward: to make Iowa (and the rest of the contest) a two-person race between their guy and Hillary. In Plouffe's telling, Edwards is fading fast in Iowa. And a key Obama supporter there, the former state party chairman Gordon Fischer, gave an interview last week disparaging the turnout of Edwards supporters at the big-deal Jefferson-Jackson Dinner on November 10, arguing that Obama was well poised to pick up Edwards's voters, whom he described as "up for grabs."
It's tough to tell whether they are succeeding or not. If you go only by the polling that's done by Ann Seltzer, found most recently in the WaPost and DMR numbers (though a bit out dated now), Obama had the strong lead, and Edwards seemed to be fading. Then a slew of things seemed to turn the way of Edwards, he wasn't fading,  and suddenly Obama is attacking Edwards for some 527 action that's being done on the side in Iowa. The only thing to draw from this, is that the Obama strategy hasn't worked according to plans-- that Edwards might have faded, but then rebounded. It certainly seems to put to rest the spin that was coming out of camp Obama for the past few months that Edwards would fade in Iowa-- but let's wait and see what the WaPost & DMR polls find.


I don't know if you came across this post by worldtrippers on dkos, but it makes a compelling case for Obama's organizational skills in Iowa, based on previous events. But having been there for some of those events, there's no doubt a lot of non-Iowans pumping up those numbers. Whenever I talked with Edwards or Clinton people at those events about Obama's numbers, they would sooner or later point out how similar it seemed to Dean's campaign.


But Obama's organization in Iowa is not Dean's campaign; it's much better. It's had the resources and the staff to put in place a very strong organization. Every interaction that I've had with an Obama staffer on the ground has shown me that it's top-notch. I may not think much of Obama's creds for a GE, but the early-states team he's got are good enough to win. Tom Schaller's got a terrific read about some of the field ops he's gleaned from  Iowa that you should read.


The thing is though, Clinton's got one hell of a team in Iowa too, and so does Edwards--as shows the failure of Obama's strategy of counting on the fade. Since this spring or so, I've thought that Clinton would win the nomination, but I don't think it's going to come through a sweep. She's going to lose some early-state contests. The doubt I have in Iowa though, for Obama's chances, is the same one that no doubt is going through their campaign's head this past week as Obama focused his attack on Edwards instead of Clinton-- a strong 3-way race helps Clinton the most in Iowa.


From the analysis post that I requested, here's a few comments, one about New Hampshire from Howard Park:

Based on talking to about 200 Dem. & independent voters as an Obama canvasser, in NH, last weekend back into the summer, I sense that the electorate in NH is really at the decision point.  I believe Obama is on the verge of closing the sale but there could be a mini "Dated Barack, Married Hillary" effect, just as voters flirted with, but turned away from, Howard Dean and Wesley Clark four years ago.  I don't believe enough voters yet see Obama as the next President.  A win in Iowa would cast Obama in that role, I'm sure there won't be any scream from Barack.  Older voters bring up experience, a lot.  Some really like Obama but think that "he will get his turn later."  Everyone thinks he is younger than his age. I wish Obama's campaign would have more substance in its "literature" -- it's there, Barack has the beef.


Hillary's strengths & weaknesses are well known.  She is seen as both a great champion and a nasty fighter.  I think she needs to go sharply positive at the end -- her team has planted doubts about Obama, especially with older voters.  She is not the candidate of change but she is seen by many as a candidate of change.  Most voters do not see huge issue differences in the Dem. field, to them any Democrat is OK and


Hillary seems to be the default choice.  But if there is any momentum out of Iowa, Obama will be like a prairie wind and blow the field away. A strong second just might do.  Amond second-choicers I think Obama does better with Edwards voters and Hillary does better with Richardson voters.  I want to believe it will be an Obama win, but I'm from Missouri originally and I haven't been shown yet.

And one from Dan Conley about Iowa:
The DMR endorsement and the Newsweek cover for Edwards have helped slow the Obama momentum in Iowa, turning the huge-universe sample into a three-way tie.  This is largely an Iowa phenomenon, Obama's momentum in New Hampshire continues unabatted.  

As I've been saying for weeks, the results in Iowa depend more on campaign strategy and precinct captain training than polls ... Obama and Edwards have the strength and organization to push Hillary into third place if they don't care which one comes out on top (by trading spare votes across the board.) My guess is that team Edwards is confident enough in their rural organization to offer an arrangement to Obama, but Obama has to fear an Edwards win, so he's likely to roll the dice.  It's a risk, though, because any Hillary win raps up the nomination.

Richardson slamming Hillary on Iraq yesterday is potentially huge news ... I doubt that there's a reciprocity agreement between their campaigns now.  Hillary could very well be on her own in Iowa, which is not good ... Biden and Dodd should be looking to Edwards for vote trading relationships.  Kucinich had one in 2004, but his lack of precinct captains made it impossible for Edwards to full capitalize on it.

I'm predicting a surprisingly comfortable win for Edwards, with around 35 percent of delegates, with Obama and Hillary in a fierce fight for number two.  The Edwards people in 2004 were disappointed that they didn't do more to deprive Kerry of oxygen and let Dean fall too hard ... don't be too surprised if there's a last minute Edwards-Clinton deal that seals a first place win for Edwards while pushing Obama to #3 (which helps both campaigns short and long run.)

...It can go beyond that, conspiracy.  Once you pass viability, there are thresholds before you get to extra delegates.  So often you end up with spare voters who make no difference in your delegate count, but if passed to another candidate, can deprive a rival of a delegate.

Hillary is likely to be viable everywhere ... but if she and Edwards cut a deal to share spare delegates, they can probably deprive Obama of one delegate per precinct, which is basically the difference between getting 30 percent of the vote and 18 percent.

Now, you can't deploy this strategy unless you have a skilled precinct captain AND a precinct chair who understands the rules.  I, an Iowa novice in 2004, had to instruct the chair about re-division of the house rules in our precinct last time out ... and most of the caucus participants were unaware of what I was talking about.  I was fortunate to get the ruling in my favor, but the chair has a lot of power to shut things down, even in violation of the rules.


People think that the Iowa caucus is a participatory democracy, but it is much more similar to a huge, chaotic congress.

Which invokes a tad bit of skepticism from desmoulins:
You also need caucus-goers who are either exceptionally pliant or exceptionally tactical in their thinking. Given that so many of Clinton's caucus-goers are going to be first-timers who may not very well understand the caucus, but sure do resent how that Mr. Edwards slung all that mud at nice Hillary, do you really think they are going to be able to move massive numbers to Edwards?


I have to say that I'd love to see it happen but I often think that even very knowledgeable commentators, such as yourself Mr Conley, tend to presume others are as obsessed with political tactics as folks who read and post here.

ha, playing to the crowd.



Display:


Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

It's too bad Edwards doesn't have a more heavyweight resume. If he did he could put away both Obama and Hillary with the "experience" card and this thing would be over soon.  As it is I think, at least in Iowa, Obama is peaking out, and depending how many of his supporters jam the precincts, he may not get a clear win.  Ay kind of stalemate amongst "the three" is not good news for Edwards, and probably favors Clinton over the long run.


by NYFM on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:18:01 AM EST

'Surprisingly comfortable win for Edwards' (none / 0)

There is room for two story lines coming out of Iowa, as we saw in 2004 ('Kerry back from the dead' and 'Dean screams').

The two story lines out of Iowa if Dan Conley is right -- and I suspect he is -- will be 'Edwards shocks media favorites' and 'Clinton collapses' or 'Obama bombs' (headline writers just love rhyme and alliteration).

The impact on New Hampshire could be another three-way free-for-all, but if Clinton and Obama are fighting over as many of the same voters as they appear to be, that would leave room for Edwards to zip past on the outside and sweep the first two contests. Then all bets are off.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:23:33 AM EST

Re: 'Surprisingly comfortable win for Edwards' (none / 0)

Is your comment a rational assessment of JE's chances, or a statement of your hopes?

If you reallly think it is going to be that easy, you should buy some Edwards stock at Intrade.  For the past month he has been trading between 4 and 5%, meaning that those willing to put their money where their mouth is think he less than a 1-in-20 chance of winning the nomination.

Obama has been trading between 30-34%.  Meaning he is given a six to eight times greater chance of winning the nomination.  If you have concerns about HRC as the Dem nominee perhaps you should play the odds and bet Obama.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:29:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (2.00 / 1)

"Then a slew of things seemed to turn the way of Edwards, he wasn't fading,  and suddenly Obama is attacking Edwards for some 527 action that's being done on the side in Iowa. The only thing to draw from this, is that the Obama strategy hasn't worked according to plans-- that Edwards might have faded, but then rebounded."

Highlighting the 527 issue was the right move no matter how Edwards is doing.  Even if he is fading, $750,000 is $750,000 and that's a chunk of negativity hitting the airwaves all at once.  Obama rightfully got out ahead of it and turned it so when it comes people will look at it differently.  It was a smart, well-honed, political move even if Edwards is destined for 3rd place.


by Piuma on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:23:35 AM EST

No one's seen those ads (none / 0)

They haven't run yet. How do you know they were negative?


by Shawn on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:27:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No one's seen those ads (none / 0)

Will they air?  I believe they should air, for this is a nonissue.  Besides, Obama has flooded the media markets, and Edwards does not have all the corporate donations Obama enjoys.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:30:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another false claim (none / 0)

This is one of those little posts that totally distorts reality.

Obama has well over half a million small contributors and the vast majority of his money is not coming in large contributions from corporate fat cats.

It is fine to disagree about substance.  It is Rovian chicken sh*t to distort reality.

Fight fairly or go join the Republicans.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:35:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another false claim (none / 0)

Has he returned the bundled donations from the Crown family, who earned their profits from the closure of the Maytag plants?  And what of all the bundled donations from financial institutions and hedge funds?  Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of all the loopholes in campaign finance laws understand bundled donations to be a vehicle whereby funds slated for a 527 are funneled into a campaign's coffers.  

Obama attempted to eviscerate Edwards's campaign, precisely because Edwards must rely on the intervention of 527s as a result of his unwillingness to accept the bundled donations of which Obama has been a knowing and willing recipient.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 01:52:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Another false claim (none / 0)

Having someone who is a Clinton supporter lecture Obama about campaign finance niceties is absurd.

HRC won't even reveal her bundlers and she is still accepting PAC money.

This is far worse than the pot calling the kettle black.  This is the pot calling the shiny new pot with only a few small flecks of grease on it black.

Your double standard is astonishing.


by upper left on Tue Dec 25, 2007 at 02:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

It is also a sign of obama's greed, for Edwards's eschewal of corporate funds requires him to rely on public funding and on 527s who represent ordinary workers.  

but now obama claims he is indifferent to the role of 527s in the general election.  

from ABC NEWS):

"Obama would not definitively answer if he would accept 527s in the general election, but said during the primary season he would tell them to stop.

"What I hope to do is to get Republicans to come up with some sort of agreement in terms of how we are going to operate," Obama said

he is a hypocrite, and he is naive if he believes republicans will halt the operations of their 527s.


by truthteller2007 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:29:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah, I saw that too, and here is the link (none / 0)

for that:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/ 2007/12/obama-heats-up.html


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Today's (none / 0)

UNH New Hampshire poll had some bad news for Edwards in the internals (and I am for Edwards).

Question: Who are you LEAST likely to vote for:
Edwards 35, Clinton 31, Obama 21.

Even more astonishing was among liberals 44 percent named Edwards as the candidate they were least likely to vote for

Page 31 of the following link
http://www.unh.edu/survey-center/news/pd f/primary2008_nhprim122307.pdf


by fladem on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:27:11 AM EST

Re: Today's (none / 0)

Interesting observation. To my mind, having only 35% say they are least likely to vote for you, in a multi-candidate field where you've polling at 15%, is actually quite low. That means that of the 85% that is not at the moment intending to vote for you, about half do not have someone else as their #2 or soft #1.

Whats really striking in the stat you cite is that only 21% say they are "least likely" to vote for Obama. That means about 4/5 of those polled are not leaning heavily or committed to someone else.

Finally, I generally discount any question that asks people to self-identify as "liberals." Esp for the core of Edwards support, among lower- and middle-income voters, including rural Democrats, the term is the opposite of how they see themselves.


by desmoulins on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 03:28:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

You also need caucus-goers who are either exceptionally pliant or exceptionally tactical in their thinking. Given that so many of Clinton's caucus-goers are going to be first-timers who may not very well understand the caucus, but sure do resent how that Mr. Edwards slung all that mud at nice Hillary, do you really think they are going to be able to move massive numbers to Edwards?

I think the vast majority of Clinton supporters dislike Barack Obama much more than John Edwards. Even if this weren't true, Clinton supporters realize that Barack Obama is much more of a threat to win the nomination than Edwards. I have a hard time believing that the Clinton campaign hasn't given their caucus goers this information.


by world dictator on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:36:41 AM EST

As a staunch Clinton supporter, I agree... (none / 0)

I am much more comfortable with Edwards than Obama, based on the Experience factor.  People who are voting for Hillary based on the "experience" issue will pick the next most-experienced viable candidate, imo.  Obama is the least experienced so he is the least likely to get Hillary supporters.  Thats just my own personal theory though.

It would make sense also that Biden and Richardson supporters would be drawn to Hillary for that same reason.


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:20:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (2.00 / 1)

Obama's field team in Iowa is dominated by former Kerry staffers. I think they did quite nicely last time around. Plus they have more resources, people, and momentum this time. It's also worth noting that the Clintons have NEVER campaigned in the Iowa caucuses before. Bill skipped it in 92 (that's how he got the title "the comeback kid") and they didn't even need to mess with it in 96 since the nomination wasn't contested.

If Dean's people are with anyone, they are with Edwards. (Trippi, et. al.) Even if Edwards manages to win or do well in Iowa, he has virtually ZERO organization anywhere outside of the state. Some of this can be overcome with momentum from a victory, but he's basically going to be starting from scratch in most of the other states with very little in the way of resources compared to Obama and Clinton.

My best guess right now about the outcome in Iowa puts Obama first, with Clinton and Edwards within a couple of percentage points of each other for second place. In the absence of huge spreads between the front runners, I pretty much consider polling at this point to be junk. And I think we've gotten to the point in this race where a good deal of the analysis is mere projection.

My advice: stay warm and enjoy the holidays. This will all sort itself out soon.


by astrodem on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:47:02 AM EST

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

Yeah, Kerry's staffers did a good job getting watching Dean collapse


by world dictator on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 01:07:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

Astrodem, when you say Edwards has virtually ZERO organization anywhere outside of the state, do you have any idea what you're talking about?


by desmoulins on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 02:11:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

Edwards does have a substantial organization in NH, about 70 staffers if I remember correctly.  However, he has almost no staffers in any of the Feb 5 states.  

The question Edwards supporters should be asking: is it realistic to think that JE can run in NH, Nevade, and SC; raise money; and build a national organization in under a month?  I don't think so.  Which means that the most likely beneficiary of an Edwards victory in Iowa would be non other than HRC.  An Edwards victory would deprove Obama of momentum and make a comeback by Hillary on or before Feb 5 much more likely.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:46:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (2.00 / 1)

The 527 issue had less to do with an Edwards surge than an Obama campaign decision to control the media narrative this past weekend.

Frankly it was too good to pass up.

Any sane person can see that you can't be against 527s if your campaign has one on board. Which then provides a subtle reminder of another inconsistency:  the Iraq War Vote. Suddenly the 'holier than thou' candidate who is Edwards becomes just like Hillary. Two pols who say one thing and do another.


by aiko on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:48:33 AM EST

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

In general, I agree with you.  I think it good for Obama to remind Iowans that JE has a number of congruency problems.

I just hope that this spat doesn't spiral out of control.  I primarily view this campaign as the "progressives (Edwards and Obama) vs. the Dem establishment (Bill and Hillary)."

Edwards and Obama are ultimately on the same side.  The problem is that they are splitting the "alternative to Hillary" vote.  Ultimately one or the other will have to yield or Hillary will win the nomination.  I hope Obama pulls out a victory in Iowa and JE bows out gracefully.

Unfortunately, Obama has been so savagely attacked and his record and positions have been so distorted that many on the left don't realize how progressive he is.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:59:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

We are not on the same side. Its do or die.

I trust the Obama campaign--they seem to know what to do and when to do it.  Its a pleasure to support a candidate that has such a four star campaign on the ground and over the airwaves.


by aiko on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 01:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

I prefer Obama for a whole host of reasons:

-greater congruency, less flip flops
-better appeal to independents
-better position and consistency on Iraq
-he is much better positioned to beat HRC
-etc. etc.

However, I think JE is a good guy and would make an excellent GE candidate, and if elected, a great President.  I just think he is a longshot and that his supporters need to wake up to the fact that continuing to support him is the same as supporting HRC.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 03:39:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

His language has not helped. He needs to talk more in code, he's improved some in the last few weeks (which is why I switched over from Edwards) but will it be enough?


by MNPundit on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 01:09:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

I don't see any deals making that great of a monolithic impact.

This isn't 2004, when the stakes were life and death. Democrats aren't in the mindset that they are picking a candidate to take on the terrible Bush regime. They're more of the mindset that we're choosing the next President here. And, really, the differences between Obama, Clinton, and Edwards aren't really that dire.

I don't see people being that attached to their candidate. You can see it here on the blogs: Plenty of people say that they support Obama, Edwards, or Clinton, but also say that any of the others are fine, too.

If Clinton says "Vote Edwards!" I don't think many of her supporters would do so. They're too independent-minded. Especially in Iowa.

What's the history like for these "If I'm not viable, vote for him" type of deals in Iowa? I know of the famous Kucinich/Edwards deal in 2004, but that didn't really affect much when Kucinich was polling at 1%.

Given that all three candidates are polling so well in Iowa, I don't think there will be many places in which one of them is not viable. And if there is, I don't think the voters will move in a monolithic bloc, even if the chief tells them to.

The real story is where Richardson's, Biden's, and Dodd's supporters will go.


by Kal on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 01:08:53 AM EST

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

Jerome, do I read you correctly that you expect Edwards to win Iowa by a significant margin but Clinton to win the nomination anyway? Are you basing that on an expectation that Edwards does not shoot to the fore in other early states after Iowa or that he does but can't garner enough earned media and raise enough cash to go over the top on Feb 5?

Do you believe that Clinton is going to have a lot of money in the bank after IA and NH if she were to get beat in both?

My view is that if Edwards wins Iowa (and granted thats a big if but you suggested he would), he's at least an even money bet to go all the way. If he wins Iowa big, especially if Obama is a distant third, then I think Edwards at worst is a close second in NH, and almost certainly wins NV and is well situated to win SC.

Then the question becomes whether he can sweep Feb 5 on momentum and does Clinton have enough money set aside from her stash to alter through advertising what will almost certainly be a hostile national media environment?


by desmoulins on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 03:38:04 AM EST

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

I think your premise, that Edwards has an even chance if he wins Iowa, is highly flawed.

Let's look at the possibilities:

First let's stipulate to some facts.  Edwards has been consistently running a close third in the polls.  His RCP average is 5 points behind BO and HRC who are tied. So your premise requires that he outperform his polls and that he overcomes not one, but two, different candidates.  

Scenario 1)  Edwards 1st, Obama 2nd, Clinton 3rd

If Edwards and Obama are close, then the headlines out of Iowa are "Clinton Collapses, Iowa Dems choose Edwards and Obama over Clinton."

In this scenario, it seems likely that the "Iowa bounce" will be split between JE and BO.  Edwards may get more, but he won't get it all.  Given that BO and HRC are both running 15% ahead of JE in NH, it seems unlikely that he will be able to leapfrog both.  NH has not been very kind to southerners.  In scenario 1, I think it is more likely that BO wins NH.  Obama is well ahead of Edwards in Nevada and SC.  If Obama wins NH he will sieze the momentum from Edwards.

Scenario 2)  Edwards 1st, Clinton 2nd, Obama 3rd

In this scenario, Edwards will likely get more of a bounce, but will it be enough to pass both HRC and BO?  This seems unlikely the average bounce has been about 10%, given that he is trailing BO and HRC by about 15 points, Edwards will still be a longshot to win NH.  The most likely outcome is a Clinton victory in NH.  Followed by a Clinton victory in Nevada.  Edwards will get a shot at her in SC, but how does he get enough momentum, money, and organization to beat her on Feb 5?

Bottom Line:  The only way I can see JE winning the nomination is if he crushes both HRC and BO in Iowa so that he gets a big enough bounce to win NH, and then snow balls his way through the the rest.  It will take a nearly perfect storm.

This is why I keep encouraging Edwards folks to think about their second choice.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 10:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

You have stated an opinion.  You have not provided any information or analysis to back up your opinion.  

Given that Edwards is trailing both BO and HRC in the polls, and that the polls have not shown any large shift in Edwards direction, your opinion looks more like a hope than reasoned analysis.


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 11:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

No that was Conley that expressed that sentiment. I will wait till I get on the ground out there before I make a prediction. I could see any of the three winning Iowa.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

Sorry; just reread the original article more carefully.


by desmoulins on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 06:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

I think that on a personal level Edwards dislikes Clinton and Obama dislikes edwards.

So I think that any such wheeling and dealing wont come from the top.


by sterra on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:07:37 AM EST

Re: Not my impression (none / 0)

My impression is that both Edwards and Obama dislike Hillary, and that both are competing to be the "alternative to Hillary."

What gave you the impression that Obama dislikes Edwards?


by upper left on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 10:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

I said it before I will say it again......a vote for Hillary is a vote for the status quo. This woman is entrenched in washington politics and in bed with lobbyists etc. She will bring nothing new or positive to this country. How dare we complain about GW and than watch as a bunch of fools vote Hillary to the nomination....its hypocritical at best, stupid and dangerous at its worst. If we want real change in this country its gonna take Edwards or Obama to bring it...its gonna take voting out entrenched incumbents from the congress and senate.

Wake up folks, now is the time to enact change....a vote for Hillary brings nothing but more misery for the American people.


by adbct on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 09:27:05 AM EST

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

Why are you voting for her? You are blind to the fact that she is a fraud?


by adbct on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 10:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has one Dean quality (none / 0)

The inability to purge names from their phone lists.  I was contacted by Obama in June and said I was an Edwards prec cap.  Fast forward to October, same phone call.  Fast forward to early Nov, same call at which time I told them they were beginning to resemble the Dean camp where they can't scrub a list and would wind up irritating people.  Two weeks later, same phone call, same conversation.  Last week, Team Obama wanting to know if I had made up my mind who I was going to caucus for.  If you can't clean a phone list, look for the irritant factor to play a part espically if people get 6 or 7 calls between X-mas and caucus.


by demiowa on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 10:44:31 AM EST

I don't think it's an inability (none / 0)

to clean the lists--I think they are purposely calling some non-supporters to see if they have changed their minds. Look at this excerpt from a blog post by an out-of-state volunteer:
Iowans support for candidates is more like sand than concrete.  The following notes were attached to one voter I called:  6/1/07:undecided; 7/2/07: leaning Obama; 9/4/07: leaning Clinton; 10/5/07: solid Clinton; 10/15/07: undecided  Today when I called her she said she was leaning toward Edwards.  At first I thought I was dealing with a particularly unstable voter, but after talking to 50 voters with similar call records, I realized just how fluid Iowans' candidate preferences are.  This, along with the viability issue, is why no one really knows who will win the Iowa caucuses.

Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 12:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think it's an inability (none / 0)

As usual, desmoinesdem is right.  They call some who have previously expressed support for another candidate to see if people have changed thier minds -- and yes, that happens.

Do you think that some people are giving misleading poll responses because they think if they give one answer or another they are less likely to get a lot of calls from a campaign?  I think some truly undecided people are afraid to say so because of the fear that they will get barraged by one or more campaigns.


by howardpark on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 02:22:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Christmas Eve political junkies (none / 0)

It is a dumb way to pick a presidential nominee. They should just have a primary vote. It would be a lot more in keeping with the spirit of our country. I don't know why there wouldn't be one big day where we all vote in the primary, across the whole country. Let it be brokered in the convention. At least everyone, including those who support losing candidates, would have a voice.  However this turns out this time, I hope the party rethinks about this system.


by maxstar on Mon Dec 24, 2007 at 11:06:58 AM EST


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