Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith

OK, it is on now. As if to say, "nope, we're actually not done talking about your faith, Mitt," in an article to be published in Sunday's New York Times Magazine, Mike Huckabee asks oh so innocently:

"Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"

The best thing about the question is that Huckabee apparently just threw it out there out of nowhere and couched it in intellectual curiosity about Mormonism.

The article...says Huckabee asked the question after saying he believes Mormonism is a religion but doesn't know much about it.

Helpfully, The AP seeks out some answers.

The authoritative Encyclopedia of Mormonism, published in 1992, does not refer to Jesus and Satan as brothers. It speaks of Jesus as the son of God and of Satan as a fallen angel, which is a Biblical account.

So where does this concept of Christ and Satan as brothers come from? Lightplanet's About Mormons section is helpful in providing context:

First, Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father (and is therefore divine) and the mortal virgin Mary. Satan, a malignant spirit, does not share this parental heritage of Jesus, and cannot be considered divine in any respect. Therefore, in the usual way that we speak of brothers and sisters, Jesus and Satan are not brothers.

Would that it were that simple...

However, Latter-day Saints believe that God is our Father in Heaven. Before we came to this world, we all lived as spirits under his care and guidance. We believe that God begat or created the spirits of Jesus, Lucifer, and all of the human family as his children.

D'oh!

This is precisely the game Romney does not want to get into, explaining away specific tenets or teachings of the Mormon Church, and indeed he has not responded to a request for comment on this story. In the past, when asked about specific aspects of Mormonism, Romney's said something to the effect of "I'll let the experts explain..." and after last week's speech, as Chris Cillizza posits, Romney is clearly hoping he can get by with  a "That's old news and I've already addressed it." Looks to me like Huckabee has no intention of allowing Romney to retreat quite so easily from explanations of Mormonism. Frankly I'm a little surprised to see Huckabee doing the dirty work himself rather than have a surrogate do it, especially considering the live and let live attitude he's adopted when asked about other candidates' beliefs. To the extent that this is perceived to be a betrayal of that sentiment, I suppose this could backfire on Huckabee, but he knows the audience he's going after with this stunt better than anyone and he knows exactly the message he's sending merely by raising the question.

Governor Romney, it's your move.



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Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Actually, it's smart politics for Huckabee to come out with this, given the prejudicial nature of the Republican electorate.  If he can knock out Romney before Giuliani can begin his recovery in Florida (presumably), Huckabee just might find a seam and go all the way.  Thompson looks dead everywhere, and second-place in NH won't save McCain.  


The bad news is that my Representative and two Senators are in the minority. The good news is that my Representative and two Senators are in the minority.
by CLLGADEM on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 06:09:23 AM EST

the only reason (none / 0)

this is fun is cause the GOP has been pushing religiosity in government for so long that it's funny that Romney doesn't have the "right" kind of religiosity.

mormonism is very interesting and most people know nothing about it


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:02:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: the only reason (none / 0)

Well they ARE behind the ban of gay leaders in boy scouts.  Interesting as it may be, the mormons have their share of intolerance.


by yitbos96bb on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:57:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

If Huckabee does not surge in NH, there wont be a knockout blow. Michigan comes next and Romney will probably win whatever Rasmussen polls say about the closeness of the race there. Unless Huckabee surges to a 15 point lead in the national polls, this is far from over. It may be a very long winter for the GOP and the nomination could end up in the courts.


by Boilermaker on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:46:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

The courts?  Because half their delegates were stripped?  It may end up in court but I can't see the states winning that battle.  Besides, I doubt it will come down to those delegates striped in making the difference.  Either someone wins without them, or they go into convention hell (the way many of us were fearing earlier in the year) and there is a brokered convention.  Frankly I am hoping for the brokered convention as I would love to watch the process play out, without it damaging my party.


by yitbos96bb on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:56:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

I'm not sure the courts can do much when it comes to a political party selecting a presidential nominee.


d
by d on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:39:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Whatever happened to "no religious test"?  And the hell of it is, all the posturing is displaying little in the way of ethics or morality, let alone "Christian" charity or tolerance.


by ocoocher on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:31:33 AM EST

it's a GOP primary (none / 0)

it's not the right kind of GOP religion


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:03:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

The Christians hate the Muslims, the Muslims hate the Jews.  This is the consequence of blurring the clear line of separation of Church and State.  The "religious" have opened a can of worms, and now politicians are attacking one another's religious beliefs.  Hillary or Dodd or someone should take leadership and say, "Bring Americans together by recognizing that the separation of Church and State is to the benefit of BOTH Church and State.  Romney shouldn't be saying he wouldn't have a Muslim in his administration.  Huckabee shouldn't be arguing, as per his Bible, that women should be subservient to men.  McCain shouldn't be hugging Falwell and Obama shouldn't be pandering to the evangelicals by having a homophobe on stage with him.  Let religious beliefs be an issue between the believer and their God, not between the electorate and their government."


by candideinnc on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:53:23 AM EST

I couldn't agree more (none / 0)

You live by the sword, you die by it.  You are right that none of these things should be happening.  However when you pander to people's religious prejudices and use them to get elected then you are fair game as far as I am concerned. Romney is just another cynical right winger using religion to get votes, so I do not blame Huckabee at all.  At least Huckabee is the real deal. I hate his social conservative ideas but he means them, unlike Romney who changes his stance every time he runs for office.  
Who is it these politicians are all catering to?  It is not my PresbyterianUSA congregation, it's the fundamentalists and right wing Catholics.  Good then, let them deal with and all out battle for religious leader of the republican party.  And if Obama wants to play that, let him get his ass dragged in to it also.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:01:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Contrary to what you think, Christians in today's world don't hate muslims or any other religious group that I know of.  I would be careful about using these assumptions.


d
by d on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

interesting (none / 0)

That explains what I heard Glenn Beck complaining about.  It's clear the AM conservative talk show hosts prefer Romney to Huckabee.  


New Jersey politics and news
by John DE on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:45:05 AM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (1.00 / 2)

This came about because evangelicals don't consider mormons to be christian and they don't think Giuliani is moral.  So they turned to the baptist pastor who they were sure of.

The idea that Hillary, who the GOP thinks is a lesbian spawn of Satan, is able to bridge a religious divide is absurd on its face.  She and Bill, if not of Satan, are certainly related to the father of lies.  See this link of facts regarding Hillary's problem with the truth.

http://nationaljournal.com/taylor.htm


by Javier Doval on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:46:59 AM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

It is not just evangelicals that don't consider mormons to be christians.  Most christian groups would not consider Mormons to be christian based on theological differences, just as they would consider many other religions not to be christian.  Just because mormons claim to be part of the christian tradition does not make it true.


d
by d on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

My question becomes How would this line of attack help or hurt Huckabee in the general.  I know some on here aren't afraid of him, but he terrifies me against any of our candidates... Southern and conservative brings out the crazies.  If they get an Anti-Gay bill on a lot of states as in 2004, it could be troubling.  

Bush NEVER went this far when it came to religion.  It was there, but not to this extreme (and we later found out all of his talk of christian values was bullshit as many suspected)

Will this turn off part of the population or will they embrace him?  


by yitbos96bb on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:51:30 AM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

So far, Huckabee in serious trouble in NH although the Dem race is too close to call...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/12/o bama.newhampshire/index.html


by Boilermaker on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:37:46 AM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Why doesn't Huckabee have to explain the ridiculous tenets of his religion? I would love to see Huck and Mitt go back and forth until everyone following the story said something like "yeah, why do we believe all of this insane shit?"

The beauty of Scientology and Mormonism is that we can see how a religion begins. And we can then guess that in the past, some charismatic fellows also started Islam, Christianity and Judaism. And not with some deified blessing, but with a little knowledge, a lot of demagoguery, and a hint of charm and hubris. To ignore that reality would be like looking watching your child grow from birth, but still insisting that you were never a newborn or a blastocyst---of course you were always a thinking person! And of course these other religions are false, but mine really WAS the group ordained by God above!

*sorry for the snark


by psychrofon on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:52:52 AM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Too  bad, Chuck Shumer or someone else of Jewish faith is not running for President. Then there would be real fireworks with charges of anti-semitism particularly in places such as Iowa!!


by Boilermaker on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (2.00 / 1)

Huckabee seems to forget that Morman are the most loyal GOP voting block of all.

Less than half of the 7MM Mormans in the US live in Utah.  Many live in swing states such as NV, CO, AZ, and NM.

If Romney gets taken down because of his religion by the "Christian Leader" Huckabee bests him in Iowa then we Democrats has a one in a lifetimw opportunity to "convert" many Morman voters who now see how they are truly viewed by the Fundamentalist Christians tht have come to dominate the GOP.

I suggest that Senators Reid, Obama and Edwards pay a visit to Brigham Young University and present an inclusive message and reintroduce the Democratic Party to the LDS faithful.  If we could convert 10%-20% of the Morman population in the western swing states it could pay major dividends next November.


by Sam I Am on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:20:07 PM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Unfortunately this leopard will not change its spots.


by Boilermaker on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

Southern Whites were once the most loyal of Democrats.  They certainly have changed their spots.


by Sam I Am on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

being mormon isn't the problem (none / 0)

The root of the problem for christians is not so much that he's mormon.  It's that mormons and Mitt himself claim that they are christians and christians do not generally believe that mormons are christians.

This very quote that you gave raises eyebrows from almost any christian that is somewhat educated in their faith:

"However, Latter-day Saints believe that God is our Father in Heaven. Before we came to this world, we all lived as spirits under his care and guidance. We believe that God begat or created the spirits of Jesus, Lucifer, and all of the human family as his children."

There are so many differences here with mainstream christian doctrine and tradition that I can't even begin to address them.  Which would not matter if mormons did not claim to be christian.  They do, however, which is the problem.

All of this, of course, has very little to do with governing- but does influence how people think.


d
by d on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:29:13 PM EST

why go to lightplanet? (none / 0)

the church spokesperson explained it fully and honestly right there in the article.

it's not romney's "move." and huckabee will suffer for dirtying his hands with this.


by jethropalerobber on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:57:22 PM EST

Re: Huckabee Going After Romney's Faith (none / 0)

btw, there's a good diary on this topic at dkos here (not mine):

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/12 /05045/099


by jethropalerobber on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:58:58 PM EST


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