DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie But Obama Rising

The new DesMoines Register Poll (500 LVs, Nov. 25-28, MOE +/- 4.4%) continues the trend we've seen in the last few polls: technically a 3-way tie but the upward momentum is Obama's. Interestingly, Obama's rise appears to come virtually entirely at Clinton's expense since the last DMR poll at the start of October.

CandidateNov. 25-28 (Oct. 1-3)RCP 6-poll Ave.
Obama28 (22)27.33
Clinton25 (29)26.5
Edwards23 (23)22.67
Richardson9 (8)8.33
Biden6 (5)5
Kucinich1 (1)
Dodd1 (1)
Not Sure7 (11)

As you can see, undecideds are diminishing, although according to the poll's analysis, the race is still fluid: "just over half" of respondents say they could still change their mind.

One big area of concern for Clinton, which has been seen in prior polls as well, is that:

In the new poll, Obama leads with support from 31 percent of women likely attend the caucuses, compared to 26 percent for Clinton. In October, Clinton was the preferred candidate of 34 percent of women caucusgoers, compared to 21 percent for Obama.

Women represent roughly six in 10 Democratic caucusgoers, according to the new poll.

What's less surprising is Obama's strength among younger voters:

Obama also dominates among younger caucusgoers, with support from 48 percent from those younger than 35. Clinton was the choice of 19 percent in that group and Edwards of 17 percent.

Although could his steep rise since October be partially due to a larger sample of younger voters?

The under-35 bloc represents 14 percent of Democratic caucusgoers, up from 9 percent in the October poll.

David Yepsen is a bit skeptical of the firmness of Obama's lead considering its dependence on this youth vote.

Obama's gained 6 points in the last month and has opened up a statistically insignificant lead over Hillary Clinton and John Edwards. That lead looks even weaker when you consider a chunk of Obama's support comes from younger adults, who are notoriously poor caucusgoers.

Yepsen weighs in on what's hurting Clinton.

She continues to be vexed by her relatively high negative ratings. Close to a third of Democratic activists view her negatively, and that may deny her a first-place finish on caucus night, despite her good organization. She's had some success improving her image by making lots of personal appearances in Iowa, so look for her to add campaign time in the state.

And as for Edwards's third place standing:

It'll be fatal for the guy who finished second in 2004 to finish in third place now. Yet his support is unchanged from October. While he's not improved in the last month, he hasn't slipped more, either.

This poll might be a sign that Edwards should go back to that softer style and more positive, moderate message that served him so well in 2004. His populist themes and indignant style smack of class warfare and haven't moved numbers in Iowa.

On the Republican side, the notable developments are that Huckabee actually passes Romney for first place 29%-24%, Giuliani is in 3rd with 13%, still below the 15% viability threshold, and Paul ties McCain for 5th place with 7%.

Obama's movement since October is impressive. Certainly there's time for Clinton to shift the movement back in her direction, as there's time for Edwards to surge as well. As I wrote a week ago, at this point 4 years ago, Kerry and Edwards were in third and fourth place respectively in Iowa and remained so until about 11 days out from caucus day.

Update [2007-12-1 23:53:39 by Todd Beeton]:A couple other things. Want evidence of the importance of the DesMoines Register's Iowa Poll? In 2004, its final poll before the caucus was one of the few if not the only poll to predict correctly the finishing order of the candidates. Kos had the compilation HERE.

Also, Chris Bowers believes that not only is Obama winning Iowa, but he is the new front-runner for the nomination.



Display:


Re: DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie (none / 0)

I don;t like Yepsen, but I think he's right about Edwards.  I like him much better when he's not always on the attack.  A month ago I was nearing the point of Naderism if he were to be the nominee, but he's slowly winning me back.  (I never would have actually voted for someone other than the Dem in the GE, but he was really irritating me).


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 11:38:51 PM EST

Edwards is done (none / 0)

He has made Iowa a referendum on Hillary ad for noncommitted voters, the way to vote gainst Hillary is to vote for Barack Obama. He will not move up. It is a 2 person race.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:03:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is done (none / 0)

I disagree... while I agree with you on the referendum aspect, I don't think that means he is done.  He is close enough that a trip by either Clinton or Obama or a change in tactics could give him the few points he needs to win Iowa still.  

I'm happy for Obama, but even a month out while the polling is important, its still anyone's game.  


by yitbos96bb on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:15:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards is done (none / 0)

Change what tactics? The only change I can see now is to go after Obama to claim the not Hillary mantle. But it is impossible for that now. He can't NOW go negative on Obama after having done so on Hillary. He is done. Totally done.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:31:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's lead (2.00 / 0)

in this poll comes mostly from voters under 35. I have hardly any of those in my precinct. They are concentrated in a smaller number of precincts.

You are too quick to count Edwards out.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:06:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's lead (none / 0)

Is the track record of young folks actually caucusing as bad as we've all heard?


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's lead (none / 0)

I am sure it is. But 14% reflects that as well. Some want to hang their hat on the 5% difference from the previous poll. Their basis for thinking that a 5% slice explains the results is unstated. Suppose that 5% gives Obama a 2% boost that is ot real. The dynamics of this poll remain unchanged. The narrative of this campaign remain the same. Worst of all, the MEDIA NARRATIVE of Obama as the Hillary Alternative remains unchanged. Edwards is done.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:47:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are ignoring the dynamic (none / 0)

and the narrative. Let me aks you THIS SIMPLE QUESTION, how is Edwards going to beat Obama now?
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:31:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards can beat Obama (none / 0)

by doing better than Obama among older voters, rural/small-town voters, and undecided voters.

It's not that complicated.

Also, remember that we are about to see the full force of the Clinton machine turned on Obama, not Edwards.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:18:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

they've thrown everything but the kitchen sink (none / 0)

at Obama these last two weeks (17 days to be exact), nothing is sticking, and I suspect nothing will.


by rapcetera on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 12:06:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie But Obama R (none / 0)

The signs are everywhere: Obama is slow and steady moving up, up, up and Hillary is on the verge of free fall.

Read MoDo and Frank Rich in Sunday's NYT.  See the polls for NH and Nat'l closing to single digits, after months and months of 20+. As Bowers points out at Open Left, momentum can equal victory.

We are in the middle of some serious Obama mojo.


by aiko on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 11:45:31 PM EST

3-Way Tie But Obama (none / 0)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/opinio n/02rich.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&r ef=opinion&pagewanted=print

Here's the article you were talking about.  Some interesting snippits...

The Washington wisdom about Mr. Obama has often been just as wrong as that about Mrs. Clinton. We kept being told he was making rookie mistakes and offering voters wispy idealistic sentiments rather than the real beef of policy. But what the Beltway mistook for gaffes often was the policy.

Mr. Obama's much-derided readiness to talk promptly and directly to the leaders of Iran and Syria, for instance, was a clear alternative, agree with it or not, to Mrs. Clinton's same-old Foggy Bottom platitudes on the subject. His supposedly reckless pledge to chase down Osama bin Laden and his gang in Pakistan, without Pakistani permission if necessary, was a pointed rebuke of both Mrs. Clinton's and President Bush's misplaced fealty to our terrorist-enabling "ally," Pervez Musharraf. Like Mr. Obama's prescient Iraq speech of 2002, his open acknowledgment of the Pakistan president's slipperiness turned out to be ahead of the curve.

Please, read the whole thing.  It is a very interesting article.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 11:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

free fall? I doubt that (none / 0)

I've been saying all year that Hillary will finish no better than third in Iowa. I even have a bet with georgep going.

But I wouldn't take from these polls that Hillary is on the verge of free fall. She is still doing very well among seniors, and Obama has not faced much scrutiny yet.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:19:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Class Warfare (none / 0)

Yepson writes: "His populist themes and indignant style smack of class warfare and haven't moved numbers in Iowa."

Why is it only class warfare when someone points out that people with less money are being screwed by people with more money?

What do we call it when certain wealthy people and their corporations take advantage of the rest of us?


by Dmitri in San Diego on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 11:48:14 PM EST

Re: Class Warfare (none / 0)

Yes, but corporations and the wealthy are subtle about it. The minute you call things like they are, people get the vapors.


by who threw da cat on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 11:54:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class Warfare (none / 0)

Agreed... then there are those who still buy that we live in the land of opportunity and while there is some truth to that, the deck is stacked against... to become uber rich in America nowadays (without inheriting the money) its like playing Texas Hold em and needing one of 2 cards on the river to win the hand.  Its doable, but the odds are stacked against you.


by yitbos96bb on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:19:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class Warfare (none / 0)

Class warfare is so-called because it has to actually be declared (although usually by those who claimed they're being attacked by it.)

The opposite is probably best called class banditry. Unregulated, vicious but allegedly inevitable and we should leave it for the rich and powerful to sort out.


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:41:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Class Warfare (none / 0)

Because both sides are now beholden to the same forces


by bruh21 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:41:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie But Obama R (2.00 / 3)

You know the internals of the rasmussen poll which is remarkably similar to the dmr poll , granted their final outcome is just a little different but the polls are very similar paints a different picture than the baseline results are painting.

The internals of the rasmussen poll points to a big victory for John Edwards , I was actually tempted to write a diary about it but I just decided against it , he is not my candidate so why bother.

But if I was an Edwards supporter I will be ecstatic and obama/clinton would kill to have his internal numbers in Iowa.

If I was to predict who would win based on the rasmussen internals , it would be John Edwards.

Now who comes in second would be a toss up , it could be clinton or it could be obama.

Just like the dmr poll says , Rasmussen shows Obama is absolutely dominating from 18 - 39 range , while clinton is absolutely dominating among the 65+ and above crowd , just like the dmr poll.

Edwards numbers are solid across the board.

Edwards is basically the second choice of everyone across the candidates by a really solid margin and his favorable ratings is just great . He comes in at 83% , with almost 45% viewing him very favorable.  

Those that are overlooking Edwards including Yepsen would probably be shocked on election night.

So fasten your seat belts.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Dec 01, 2007 at 11:56:17 PM EST

The internals? (none / 0)

Due respect, internals are crap. Edwards focus on Hillary has made Iowa a referendum on Hillary. To vote against Hillary, uncommitted voters wil vote Obama. Edwards is dead. Done. Over.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:06:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

how many undecided Iowans (2.00 / 0)

have you talked with lately?

I am contacting them just about every day (mostly in my precinct, but also whenever I run into someone I know who was undecided last time we talked about it).

You would be surprised by the number of undecided voters who have ruled out both Clinton and Obama. For many it is a choice between Edwards, Richardson, and/or Biden.

Also, Obama has yet to face the full force of attack from Clinton's surrogates and spin-meisters.

Like lori said, fasten your seat belt.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:14:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have spoken to NONE (none / 0)

But you seem to believe the fact that you have spoken to SOME gives you a special insight. It is the common anecdotal fallacy. I know it is hard for you to accept but you need to ask yourself this question - how is Edwards going to beat Obama in Iowa? What is Edwards going to do NOW that Obama has broken ahead of him? Sorry, Edwards is done.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:33:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

simple (2.00 / 0)

Edwards is going to do well in rural as well as urban areas, and will beat Obama among voters over 50.

Also, he'll need to pick up more support as the second-choice candidate of Richardson and Biden supporters.

Remember that Edwards won't be the number one target of Clinton's precinct captains--Obama will be.

As an Edwards supporter, I am satisfied with this poll. Of course it's always nice to be leading, but I would be worried if my lead of a few points came from leading under-35 voters by 30 points.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 11:14:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The internals? (none / 0)

based on what? i've read a few of yoru comments thus far and you offer little more than your pronouncement.


by bruh21 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I totally agree with you here (none / 0)

I would not be excited to lead a statewide poll by a few points if my lead came almost entirely from a blowout margin among voters under 35.

Many precincts are full of empty nesters with very few young families or young single people.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:08:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I totally agree with you here (none / 0)

The excitement is due to momentum and trends in Iowa, NH and National polling. (Not just a 3 point lead in a single poll, within the margin of error.) Something is going on here and we can feel it. It is exciting.


by aiko on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:32:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Misreading the poll (2.00 / 1)

So, there's a poll where the percentage of younger voters included in it has increased by 5% compared to the previous poll and support from that block goes overwhelmingly to Obama and Edwards STILL manages to hold steady in that poll anyway?

Seems to me that Edwards is at such a high level of support even when the demographics of the poll are changed in a fashion that benefits Obama (that isn't likely to reflect turnout on caucus night) should be the real story here. How much would Edwards have gone up in this poll if the under 35 crowd would have remained at 9% of the sample rather than 14%? I don't see how anyone could say that Edwards wouldn't have seen at least a few point increase in the poll.


by Quinton on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 12:04:04 AM EST

Re: Misreading the poll (none / 0)

You're right about that. Edwards would probably be the one to benefit from a lower turnout among younger voters. Polls have actually shown both Hillary and Obama doing the best with the younger vote, so they both would be hurt to some degree if they don't show up.

I still say the caucuses go Edwards, Obama, then Clinton in that order.


by Progressive America on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 12:38:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Misreading the poll (none / 0)

Whenever a poll (and for that matter strategy) depends on changed voter behavior  (in this case a much, much increased change for turn out by younger voters) that's far afield of anything in the past, one should be suspect as to whether it sufficiently reflects reality or not. I continue to be disappointed as to the level of what passes for analysis here. The thing is everything that I am saying- they used to say here when discusisng polling results. Now its just pretty much pure horserace without meaningful context. Remember the LA Times poll a few months back that was front paged wherein Armstrong or someone else had to update saying that the numbers were based on 5 times the rate of voter turn out int he state prevously? Instead, now all analysis is reduced to averaging poll results rather than asking-- okay is this realistically going to happen this way?


by bruh21 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Misreading the poll (none / 0)

by the way- my point with the LA Times poll was why did it take an update to point out what should have been obvious to anyone taking the time to understand what the polling results mean in context of history. These people here are suppose to be political gurus and experts and yet it didn't occur to them afterwards to check what was polled with reality? These are the same kinds of questions I have here.


by bruh21 on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:55:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Misreading the poll (none / 0)

Haven't you been reading above? Edwards is dooooomed!!!1!!


by who threw da cat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:58:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Misreading (none / 0)

Well Dean performed poorly in the last debate, I think that was one of his main problems. Gephardt, Lieberman, and Dean all kind of brought themselves down.


by Progressive America on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 12:40:06 AM EST

Re: Misreading (none / 0)

And considering how much money Hillary and Obama have spent in Iowa and how little (virtually nothing) Edwards has spent. He's spent almost nothing and he's been either holding steady or increasing his level of support in the polls. Wait until Edwards makes the big push to the finish.


by Quinton on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 01:19:32 AM EST

Re: DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie But Obama R (2.00 / 1)

I sure hope Chris Bowers is loading up on those Obama contracts at Intrade.  20 cents a share is a great price to get on the "favorite" for the nomination!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 01:22:14 AM EST

Re: DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie But Obama R (none / 0)

It's 20 dollars a share I thought.  

If I recall correctly, I thought it went, you buy one, and if you win you get 100 back.  So Obama costs 20$, but if you win you get 100.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 01:46:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Chris Bowers record (none / 0)

is awful. Citing Bowers on who the favorite is is pretty darn funny. Anyone familiar with his 2004 work? An utter crash and burn.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

WTF? (none / 0)


by aiko on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:36:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (none / 0)

I am sorry, what part did younot understand? Chris Bowers record in 2004 was as bad as anyone could possibly have had. He declared DEAN unbeatable for the nomination. A stone cold mortal lock Bowers declared Dean. Did you get that?
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:49:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (none / 0)

It feels personal which is not necessary.

It wasn't just Chris who was wrong--the entire blogosphere was creating fictional scenarios that pointed to and justified a dem victory. Everybody was living in a fantasy land. That is not happening this time.


by aiko on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 01:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF? (none / 0)

No. No one but Chris claime4d to have empirical evidence to that effect. I am sorry but I was there. Chris was quite adamant about it. It is not persopnal btw. It is just reminding people that on these things Chris is terrible. Just the other day people were reminding us about Yepsen's track record. Did you think THAT was personal? Come on.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 04:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bowers is nuts (2.00 / 1)

1) We don't know who's going to win Iowa.  Five points between first and third, a month out?  Too close to call.  Period.

2) Let's assume for sake of argument that an Iowa win propels Obama to the nomination.  Same for Clinton.

3) What happens if Edwards wins Iowa?  Given that he's further back in a race that has unusually low volatility, one can't say the same thing about Edwards.  It might put him on the track to win the nomination, but a lot of things have to break his way.  Even as an Edwards partisan, I doubt it will happen.

What an Edwards win in Iowa will likely do is one of the following: (a) leapfrog Edwards over Obama as the anti-Clinton in the race, or (b) muddle the picture sufficiently that anti-Clinton voters don't know who to choose.

4) 3b almost certainly leads to Clinton's winning the nomination.  3a probably does too, although Edwards might be able to break through.

5) Conclusion: assuming the three main contenders have roughly equal chances of winning Iowa, and assuming (somewhat insanely) that an Obama win in Iowa gives him a 100% chance of winning the nomination, Clinton's got around a 60-65% chance of winning the nomination.

She's the frontrunner.


by RT on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 06:38:48 AM EST

Bowers in 2004 (none / 0)

Dean was a LOCK. A STONE COLD DEAD LOCK. Please, citing Bowers on this is ridiculous.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:08:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh come on (none / 0)

Of course he is rising.
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:09:15 AM EST

Re: DesMoines Register Poll: 3-Way Tie But Obama R (none / 0)

Yes, but the RCP average for Obama has risen.  RCP (and othe rpolling averages in general) has shown to be extremely accurate in showing the winners in elections.  To say he isn't rising is ignoring the facts of the situation.  

Now is he a clear frontrunner?  No.  Will he win Iowa?  I'd say he has a 33% chance, as does Edwards and Clinton.  Its anyone's race, but to say Obama hasn't risen or is rising at all is ignoring most of the other polls out there and frankly is creating your own frame and spin.  


by yitbos96bb on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 08:28:24 AM EST

Republicans don't have 15 percent threshold (2.00 / 1)

Just wanted to make that clear. There is no viability threshold on the Republican side in the caucuses.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Dec 02, 2007 at 09:11:20 AM EST


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