Two Records Compared: Hillary is a Real Progressive

One delusion seems to still permeate a good part of the progressive netroots.  Namely, that Hillary Clinton is somehow a "conservative" while John Edwards is the true "progressive" candidate.  This false claim has become so commonplace, that it is often accepted at face value and even the proprietors of several progressive sites sometimes cite this as fact.

Barack Obama may have his audacity of hope; yet it seems Edwards is audacious enough to claim that he is the real "progressive" in the Democratic primary race.  This is especially astonishing, because in this age of easy access to information when anyone can look up a politician's voting score, the record clearly indicates that, when compared to Edwards, Clinton has, by far, a more progressive record.  (I am not including Barack Obama in this analysis for reasons explained further down below.)

Talk is cheap, as the old saying goes, and Edwards' continued insistence that he is somehow the true "progressive" rings especially hollow when looked at in light of his ACTUAL record from the Senate and when that record is then compared to that of Hillary Clinton.  

In order to do this analysis, I have used statistics from the ADA (Americans for Democratic Action) -- a progressive group that ranks Members of Congress on a liberal-conservative scale according to their votes, as well as stats from a mirror organization to the ADA --  the ACU (American Conservative Union) which does the exact same thing -- except from a conservative perspective.

Each year, both the ADA and the ACU pick out roughly 20-25 votes each which they believe are of primary importance to the progressive and conservative movements, respectively.   They identify their organization's position on each vote, and then look at how each Member voted in comparison.  They add up how each Member voted on each vote/issue and assign a percentage score - so, let's say , if  there's 20 votes that the ADA considers significant for 2006 and a candidate votes the same as the ADA would have on 16 of those votes, that candidate is assigned an 80% score -- pretty simple stuff.

You can look for yourself below:

http://www.adaction.org/votingrecords.ht m

http://www.acuratings.org/

Just for the record, Hillary Clinton has a 95.8 lifetime rating from the progressive ADA, and a 9.0 lifetime rating from the conservative ACU (average of 6 separate years).  

John Edwards had a 77.5 lifetime rating from the progressive ADA, and a 10.0 lifetime rating from the conservative ACU when he left the Senate (average of 6 separate years).  

To be fair (and so that we are not comparing apples to oranges), when looking at only the years in which they served together in the U.S. Senate -- 2001 through 2004 -- Hillary's ADA rating average was 95.0, while Edwards' was 72.5 (to be fair to Edwards, he did miss a good number of votes in 2003 and 2004, and the way the ADA scores, those missed votes bring down his score for those years; nevertheless, in 2002, a year in which both Hillary and Edwards did not miss a single vote, her score was 95, while Edwards scored only a 70).

The ACU (American Conservative Union) rating average for the years in which they served together in the U.S. Senate -- 2001 through 2004 -- was 9.3 for Hillary and 16.5 for Edwards.

I am not including Barack Obama in this analysis, as he has only been in the Senate for two years, AND his voting record is almost exactly the same as that of Hillary Clinton.
In 2005, both Hillary and Obama received a perfect 100% score from the progressive ADA, and in 2006 they both received 95%.  In 2005, Obama received an 8% from the ACU, while Hillary received a 12%.  In 2006, both Hillary and Obama received an 8% from the ACU.  (Looking at it another way -- over these two years, Hillary voted more conservatively than Obama by just 1 vote out of the 90 included in the analysis.)

[It should be noted that the numbers above don't mirror each other perfectly, as the actual votes of importance the ADA and ACU use are not necessarily the same ones, although there is normally some overlap.]

The actual scores above, however, are not the major purpose of this diary.  Instead, I want to look at the actual votes on which Edwards and Hillary DIFFERED during their time in the Senate together.  I have listed below all and only the votes on which they differed, in order that this analysis be purely objective without any cherry-picking of particular votes.  (I am also obviously not including any votes on which either candidate was absent, only ones where both candidates voted, yet voted differently.)

Let the record speak for itself:

* FIRST, I will list the 2001-2004 Senate votes on which Edwards took the progressive stance while Hillary took the conservative stance -- there are 4 votes:

1.) HR 2217 (Senate Vote) Allow Limited Oil and Gas Development
Landrieu (D-LA) motion to permit oil and gas development in certain areas in the Gulf of Mexico.  Passed 67-33.  July 12, 2001.

Edwards voted no.  Hillary voted yes.

2.) HR 4775 (Senate Vote) International Criminal Court
Amendment would have prohibited U.S. assistance to, or cooperation with, the International Criminal Court, except to assist or defend U.S. or allied citizens.  Passed 55-40.  June 6, 2002.

Edwards voted no.  Hillary voted yes.

3.) S 1689 Fiscal 2004 Supplemental Appropriation for Iraq and Afghanistan - Iraq's Reconstruction
Byrd (D-WV) amendment that would eliminate from the bill $15.2 billion of the $20.3 billion allocated for reconstruction of Iraq. $5.1 billion remaining could be spent immediately for public safety, national security and justice, and up to $5 billion more could be spent for Iraq's reconstruction before April 1. After April 1, the remaining $10.2 billion in reconstruction funding could be released as part of a separate appropriations bill - but only if the United Nations agrees to U.S. leadership of a multinational military force and political and economic reconstruction of Iraq, with the President providing a detailed reconstruction plan, including an estimated schedule for transferring sovereignty to the Iraqi people and withdrawing troops. Rejected 38-59. October 1, 2003.

Edwards voted yes.  Hillary voted no.

4.) S 2400 Fiscal 2005 National Defense Authorization Act - Missile Defense
Boxer (D-CA) amendment barring deployment of a national missile defense until operationally realistic testing of the system confirms that it works.  Rejected 42-57.  
June 17, 2004.

Edwards voted yes.  Hillary voted no.

* SECOND, I will list the 2001-2004 Senate votes on which Hillary took the progressive stance while Edwards took the conservative stance -- there are 11 votes (most are self-explanatory; however, on some of the votes, I have indicated in parentheses the position each candidate took in addition to the yes/no, as it is sometimes confusing to try to figure out the vote language):

1.) S 420 Bankruptcy Overhaul
Wellstone (D-MN) amendment that would allow the average of a debtor's last two months of income to be used to determine the ability to pay a threshold amount of debt.
Rejected 22-77.  March 15, 2001.

Edwards voted no.
Hillary voted yes.

2.) HR 2620 (Senate Vote) Gun Buyback Funding
Craig (R-ID) motion to kill an amendment to the Housing and Urban Development Appropriations Bill creating a $15 million program for HUD to buy guns from the public.
Passed 65-33.  August 2, 2001.

Edwards voted yes (Edwards voted against gun buyback).
Hillary voted no (Hillary voted for gun buyback).

3.) HR 3061 (Senate Vote) Strikes by Public Safety Employees
Daschle (D-SD) amendment to the Labor-HHS Appropriations Bill that would provide collective bargaining rights, including the right to strike, to police, firemen, and other public safety officers employed by states, counties and cities.  Rejected 56-44 (required three-fifths vote of the Senate to pass).  November 6, 2001.

Edwards voted no (Edwards voted against providing collective bargaining rights).
Hillary voted yes (Hillary voted for providing collective bargaining rights).

4.) S 1731 Farm Bill/Farm Environmental Regulation
The amendment would legislate environmental quality incentives for large cattle and dairy farms to construct animal waste treatment facilities.  Rejected 44-52.  February 6, 2002.

Edwards voted no (Edwards voted against environmental incentives).
Hillary votes yes (Hillary voted for environmental incentives).

5.) S 1731 Farm Bill/Independent Producers
Craig (R-ID) motion to kill amendment that would prevent large meatpacking enterprises from owning the animals they slaughter, a practice which gives the packers inordinate power to manipulate markets and reduces competition for livestock raised by small independent farmers and ranchers.  Rejected 46-53.  February 12, 2002.

Edwards voted yes (Edwards voted against interests of small farmers).
Hillary voted no (Hillary voted in support of interests of small farmers).

6.) S 565 Voting Rights
Reid (D-NV) amendment to provide previously convicted felons who have fully served their prison sentences the right to vote in federal elections.  Rejected 31-63.  February 14, 2002.

Edwards voted no (Edwards voted against giving persons who have FULLY served their prison sentences the right to vote).
Hillary voted yes (Hillary voted for giving persons who have FULLY served their prison sentences the right to vote).

7.) S 517 SUV Requirements
Amendment would forbid the national government from setting fuel efficiency standards for pickup trucks or sports utility vehicles at any higher than 20.7 miles per gallon.
Passed 56-44.  March 13, 2002.

Edwards voted yes (Edwards voted against higher fuel efficiency standards).
Hillary voted no (Hillary voted for higher fuel efficiency standards).

8.) HR 3009 (Senate Vote) Andean Trade Bill
Passage of the bill that would extend duty-free status to products from Bolivia, Columbia, Ecuador and Peru, and renew President Bush's fast-track trade authority.  Passed 66-30.  May 23, 2002.

Edwards voted yes (Edwards voted for fast-track trade authority).
Hillary voted no (Hillary voted against fast-track trade authority).

9.) HR 4775 (Senate Vote) Budget Caps
Gregg (R-NH) motion to establish and extend for 5 years the caps on discretionary spending.  (Progressive groups were against this motion as it would, among other things, freeze spending and freeze tax law changes - in effect freeze Bush's huge tax cuts into place for 5 years).  Rejected 49-49.  June 5, 2002.

Edwards voted yes.
Hillary voted no.

10.) S J Res 34 Nuclear Waste Storage
Murkowski (R-AK) motion to approve Yucca Mountain, NV as a repository for the nation's spent nuclear and high-level radioactive waste.  Passed 60-39.  July 9, 2002.

Edwards voted yes.
Hillary voted no.

11.) HR 5005 (Senate Vote) Union Bargaining in Department of Homeland Security
Amendment would allow President Bush to exclude collective bargaining among federal employees in the new Department of Homeland Security.  Passed 73-26. November 19, 2002.

Edwards voted yes.
Hillary voted no.

To sum up, Edwards voted progressive on 4 votes on which Hillary sided with the conservative side.  It should be noted that 3 of the 4 votes were national defense related.

On the other hand, Hillary voted progressive on 11 votes on which Edwards sided with the conservative side.

In the middle of a campaign in which he is significantly behind, Edwards may insist today that he is for bankruptcy protections for the middle class, unions and collective bargaining, energy solutions and environmental protection, protecting small farmers, expanded civil and voting rights, and protectionism when it comes to trade, but when you kook at his actual voting record, he was on the wrong side on ALL of these issues, while Hillary was on the progressive side.  When it came time for the hard decisions, it was Hillary who stood up for the little guy, for unions, for the environment, for voting rights, and for fair trade that does not penalize hard-working Americans.

So when Edwards supporters insist in their claim that Edwards is the more "progressive" candidate -- with all due respect, a delusional claim -- please simply look at the voting record.



Display:


Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I chuckle to think you guys are so scared of a guy running in third place that you dedicate so many diaries focused on him.  It delights me because your candidate is afraid of him enough to pay attention to him, which she avoided for much of the summer.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 12:30:56 PM EST

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

This site has more Edwards supporters than any other candidate.  It makes sense to point out inconsistencies in the themes that Edwards and his supporters are trying to spread on this site of all places.  

I do agree, however, that Edwards himself is running in third place and his chances for the nomination, which were rather slim to begin with, took another major hit in the Vegas debate.  Still, he is making the most noise of all candidates, so it is not surprising that during the debate and after he is getting a lot of pushback due to his own hypocrisy and flip-flops.   The old "when you are sitting in a glass house yourself, don't throw stones" thing.  


by georgep on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 12:57:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

Absolutely.  Many red-state Senators have much more progressive records than Edwards had.

  Edwards strong opposition to universal health care to the point of BASHING it, declaring it "fiscally irresponsible" and "bad for our country" can't be explained away by him serving as a Senator in a red state.  He had already resigned as Senator at the time.  


by georgep on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 01:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

really? i thought it was a good idea in 93, 94, five, six, seven etc, and still think its a good idea.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 02:31:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I've been trying to make the same point; thanks for the help.  It comes down to the principle of maximum possible progress.  We can push far harder in 2008 than 2004, and even then, in most but not all states (like Southern states).  

I would be far more inclined to support Clinton if Bush's numbers were around 50%, and the Republicans were not as thoroughly discredited.  Why?  Because THEN, all other things being equal, she would running the right type of campaign for the political situation.

We do not have to play ideological defense now, and John Edwards understands that.


The bad news is that my Representative and two Senators are in the minority. The good news is that my Representative and two Senators are in the minority.
by CLLGADEM on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 08:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I have to commend you for thinking Universal Health Care was a good idea when you were 7 years old.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 11:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I wasnt 7 in 93 bud. But thanks, i know i look good for my age :)


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sun Nov 18, 2007 at 06:32:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I thought you wrote somewhere that you were 21 years old and were at college in NYC.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Nov 18, 2007 at 07:00:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

Ah, here's where I read that.  Sorry, you must have been 8. ;)

http://democraticyouth.blogspot.com/


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Nov 18, 2007 at 07:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

haha yes i was 8! turning 9 though.

And I didnt have health insurance for 2 years when i was younger, retrospectively however, it was a good idea and continues to be a good idea


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Nov 19, 2007 at 12:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I was 11, so remember to respect your elders from this point on...

I also was without health insurance for just over a year as an adult.  It's scary to deal with.  Stay on your parent's plan as long as possible.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Mon Nov 19, 2007 at 12:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

have a year and a half left on it.

well now that you're back in the swing of things, i took out your quote from my sig line, and replaced it with an equally outragous one!


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu Nov 22, 2007 at 10:31:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

I'll miss seeing my message every time you post now! :(


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Fri Nov 23, 2007 at 12:11:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

its ok, i'll be waiting for you to say something stupid again! then i will put it as my signature line, ;)


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:37:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

You really hate me, don't you?


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:40:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

of course not -


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 06:58:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

the sites pretty rabid now, and its kinda all about GOTCHA stuff. Its getting pretty silly, and everyone blames everyone else, at least our back and forth entertains me, and dont take anything i say in these too seriously, i'm just screwing around in half of them, unless its an actual issue based post.

:)


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 07:03:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

My god, if I took things I read on a blog serious enough to go home and cry about I should probably go find a diffent kind of website.

Can't wait until February because it is extremely toxic around here.  And I've done my fair share to enhance the toxicity (Hookers for Hillary, anyone?) lol


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:45:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

well even then it wasnt this crazy. If you disagree with someone apparently you're a "do nothing" "accept the status quo" guy. lol.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 12:26:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

"RE was a senator of North Carolina, and no matter how he would like to vote as an individual he still represented what his constituents wanted."

among other things, he was pro-free trade -- opposite of what his constituents wanted -- particularly in North Carolina.


by silver spring on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 01:49:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

but tomorrow, will he still get it?


by alipi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 03:36:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

It seems to surprise Edwards supporters how defensive Democrats are towards Hillary Clinton, as your post indicates.

Edwards was not boo'd in Las Vegas because he was differentiating his positions with her.  He was boo'd because he was attacking her character.  

Hillary Clinton was an excellent, and well-liked first lady, and only one of two living Democratic first ladies who are still alive.  I am sure if Jackie Kennedy were still alive,  and Edwards started attacking her character,  that Democrats would be equally offended.

That does not mean Hillary should get a free pass on issues AT ALL.  But it does mean that Hillary is entitled to the same degree of respect that we would give a First Lady.  Hillary is one of our own.  

John Edwards has not shown that respect.  And to me, it makes him look like a jerk.  

So he is in third place, and I realize its not politically necessary for people to take up for Hillary when he attacks her character and tries to ruin her reputation.  But we will stand up for her anyway,  because its the only moral thing to do, imo.      


Another proud Hillary Clinton supporter for Obama
by Sandy1938 on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 01:56:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

Excellent comment. Thank you.


by alipi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 03:30:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DING-DING-DING!!! (none / 0)

Ladies and Gentlemen... Wee HAVE a Winner...!

Good One Sandy!!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 05:05:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary is a Real Progressive (none / 0)

Aren't you the one that says Clinton supporters should diary on the issues and not poll? What has changed? I know, the issues shows facts.


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 03:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Vox... it never gets old reading your posts (none / 0)

well then maybe take a pause from chuckling and re-read the diary. Its about Hillary Clinton, and about the way her (extensive) record has been distorted.


by alipi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 03:35:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rssrai your a joke! (none / 0)

Once again RSSRAI your hypocry shows! If JRE does something you don't agree with it is ok and he has a good reason why he did it, but if Hillary did it , there is no excuse!

Please this is what I have been talking about the whole time. If you people look at their records you would see who HAS BEEN A CONSISTANT progressive and who has been a flip-flopper!

RSSRAI why do you hold different standards for a woman?


by boxer4hrc on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 01:35:33 PM EST

Re: Rssrai your a joke! (none / 0)

hahahahaha - let me give you some highlights from your own argument:

"no matter how she voted"...."she is married to Bill  Clinton"  - if that's not a smoking gun, I don't know what is.

At least now I understand how you can rationalize your support John Edwards - because "no matter how he voted in the senate"... "he now promises me everything I want to hear"

Don't forget, Bill and Hillary Clinton hate kitties and puppies. This point is also crucial.


by alipi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 03:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rssrai your a joke! (none / 0)

LIKE 12 OTHER PROGRESIVE DEMS DID ALSO...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 05:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two Records Compared: Hillary is a Real Progre (2.00 / 2)

uh...huh. Okay.. so what you're saying is that John Edwards came to power with the help of the DLC people in the late Clinton years, and was swayed by them during his Senate term. Then, after his senate term, he was still swayed by them, as he continued to be pretty conservative in the 2004 cycle. Then, SUDDENLY, the DLC influence wore off, and now we have the bold and sassy John Edwards of today, who feels comfortable promising the stars to gullible progressives...

perhaps you need to spend some extra time "detecting the message inside the message"


by alipi on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 03:26:26 PM EST

If she was a progressive (none / 0)

she would not support H-1B visa increases.  We need American jobs for Americans, not for Indians.


by dataguy on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 04:20:34 PM EST

YOURE A F-ING IDIOT! (none / 0)

yes, I said F-ing...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 05:08:09 PM EST

Great diary (none / 0)

Excellent diary silver spring. Love it!


by lonnette33 on Sat Nov 17, 2007 at 07:41:49 PM EST

I think you should listen more (none / 0)

to people like lori and hwc, who support Hillary precisely because she is NOT the most progressive candidate in the race.

Like I always say, if Hillary wins the election I sure hope you turn out to be right and I turn out to be wrong.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 18, 2007 at 02:52:33 AM EST

Re: Two Records Compared: Hillary is a Real Progre (none / 0)

problem with ADA is that it doesn't tease out records like this:

With Santorum, Clinton co-sponsored the Workplace Religious Freedom Act; she didn't back off even after Republican senators such as Pennsylvania's Arlen Specter pulled their names from the bill citing concerns that the measure would protect those refusing to perform key aspects of their jobs--say, pharmacists who won't fill birth control prescriptions, or police officers who won't guard
abortion clinics.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/ 2007/09/hillarys-prayer-3.html

hillary supported legislation that would have protected pharmacists in denying women birth control. a proud possition for a so called feminists to hold.

it's people who think of hillary, despite her continual hawkishness, as some kind of closet liberal who is only posturing as a "centrist" as a way to get elected, who once in office will then magically flower into a committed progressive -- who are deluded.


I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Sun Nov 18, 2007 at 08:52:11 AM EST

Re: Two Records Compared: Hillary is a Real Progre (none / 0)

she gets all that wallstreet player money to reward her because of the corporate friendly policies her husband enabled in the '90. such as when bill clinton supported deregulation of banking interests, is one example. they're counting on her to follow in her husband's footsteps and to continue bending over backwards and giving them favors - at our expense.


I really don't understand how that is an attack; lol. ~ by Jerome Armstrong
by jello on Sun Nov 18, 2007 at 03:31:49 PM EST


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