Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship

I really want to like Barack Obama, because he's right on so many things, but he constantly frustrates me when it comes to his constant invocations of bipartisanship as the solution to everything.

People look at me strangely when I say this.  Don't you realize people want a united country, they ask.  Don't you see that only the crazy netroots are constantly longing for partisan attacks?

Paul Krugman touched on my point in today's column when he said "Mr. Obama's Social Security mistake was, in fact, exactly what you'd expect from a candidate who promises to transcend partisanship in an age when that's neither possible nor desirable."  But maybe domestic policy isn't the best place to demonstrate the impossibility of bipartisanship today.  Instead, I want to talk about a different example, from last night's debate, that I think really crystallizes the point I'm trying to make.

Asked last night about why he felt he could unite the country, Obama replied:

Here's what I would do immediately. I would convene a continuous advisory meeting with not just Democrats, but Republicans, specifically on national security issues, because there is a long tradition that our differences in foreign policy should end at the water's edge. And we have lost that tradition.

And there's some wonderful Republicans -- Dick Lugar, Chuck Hagel -- there are a group of them who have continued that tradition, but we have lost it because the polarization of the Bush administration.

Understand that I have no problem with the concept of differences ending at the water's edge.  I would love it if we could have a bipartisan foreign policy.  The last thing I want is for Democrats to become the party that exploits foreign policy for partisan advantage, the way Bush and Rove have since 9/11.  Particularly when the lives of young Americans are in your hands, you have the responsibility to do what's right on foreign policy, period, whether it causes you to lose the next election or not.

But polarization did not start with Bush, and when Obama fails to recognize that fact and fails to call out Republicans in general for wielding foreign policy like a political club, it makes me fear that a President Obama would be sandbagged just as Bill Clinton was by Republican partisanship throughout the 1990s.

No matter what Bill Clinton did in terms of foreign policy, he came under withering partisan criticism from the Republicans - criticism that we now know, given their position on the Iraq war, was positively insincere.

Listen to John McCain, legendary straight-talker, as he demands the withdrawal of troops from Somalia in 1993.

MR. McCAIN: But the mission which the American people supported and this Congress supported, in an overwhelming resolution, has been accomplished. The American people did not support the goals of nation-building, peacemaking, law and order and certainly not warlord funding. For us to get into nation-building, law and order, etc, I think is a tragic and terrible mistake. But the argument that somehow the United States would suffer a loss to our prestige and our viability, as far as the No. 1 superpower in the world, I think, is baloney. The fact is, what can hurt our prestige, Mr. President, I'll tell you what can hurt our viability, as the world's superpower, and that is, if we inmesh ourselves in a drawn-out situation, which entails the loss of American lives, more debaucles like the one we saw with the failed mission to capture Aidid's lieutenants, using American forces, and that then will be what hurts our prestige. Look at the tragedy in Beirut, Mr. President, 240 young Marines lost their lives, but we got out. Now is the time for us to get out of Somalia, as rapidly and as promptly and as safely as possible.

Listen to McCain again, demanding a withdrawal from Haiti following Clinton's invasion in 1994.

MR. McCAIN: The right course of action is to make preparations as quickly as possible to bring our people home. It does not mean as soon as order is restored to Haiti, it doesn't mean as soon as Democracy is flourishing in Haiti, it doesn't mean as soon as we've established a viable nation in Haiti, as soon as possible means as soon as we can get out of Haiti without losing any American lives. Now there may be different interpretations of this Resolution on the other side but it is my view and I want to make it clear and I think the majority of the American people's view that as soon as possible means as soon as possible. Exactly what those words state. The Haitians were to police themselves but the cooperation that was to prevent mission creep has not materialized and U.S. troops have assumed a greater and greater responsibility for policing Haiti. We all see on CNN what they are doing. Day by day their mission expands. American military personnel have been tasked with preventing looting, stopping Haitian on Haitian violence, protecting private property and arresting attaches.

In 1995, when Clinton sent peacekeepers to Bosnia, the partisan opposition was again evident on the floor of Congress.

MR. DELAY: I believe the President has made a grave mistake. He has put Americans in danger without clearly articulating what national security interest requiring the use of United States forces is at stake in Bosnia.

In 1998, when Clinton launched cruise missiles into Afghanistan in a near-miss attempt to kill Osama bin Laden, the Republicans famously accused him of "wagging the dog":

"Look at the movie Wag the Dog. I think this has all the elements of that movie," Rep. Jim Gibbons, R-Nev., said.

Sen. Arlen Specter: "There's an obvious issue which will be raised internationally about the response here as to whether there is any diversionary motive involved. ... I have deliberated consciously any references to Ms. Monica Lewinsky, but when you ask the question in very blunt terms, the president's current problems have to be on the minds of many people."

John Ashcroft: "We support the president out of a sense of duty whenever he deploys military forces, but we're not sure - were these forces sent at this time because he needed to divert our attention from his personal problems?"

In 1999, when Clinton bombed Kosovo in order to contain the murderous Slobodan Milosevic, the Republicans yet again fluffed up their feathers in partisan outrage:

MR. DELAY: Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world.  The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly.  We must stop giving the appearance that our foreign policy is formulated by the Unabomber.

MR. DELAY: I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our overextended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today.

I assume I do not need to present anyone with evidence of how these same Republicans behave when it's a Republican President sending our troops into battle.

Obama was right that there are a few Republicans who generally take a reasoned approach to foreign policy, Lugar and Hagel among them.  But the Republican caucus overall is even more conservative and even more partisan than it was in the 1990s, and the retirement of elder statesmen like John Warner does not move their party in the right direction.  Can there be any doubt that the next Democratic President, whatever decisions he or she makes on foreign policy, will be subjected to the exact same sort of insincere, partisan criticism that plagued Bill Clinton in the 1990s?

How can a Democratic President deal with this problem, without resorting to Bush-like tactics such as questioning the patriotism of the other side?  It's a difficult problem, frankly, but the solution has to start with telling the American people the truth about what the Republicans are up to.  People need to be shown the hollow partisanship that animates the Republican Party and presented with the choice of whether they really want our country's foreign policy to be held hostage to this sort of angry finger-pointing.

The notion of insincerely opposing a war just so you can blame the other party for the body count is, frankly, about the most despicable thing I can imagine in politics.  You don't overcome that sort of behavior by ignoring it and promising to magically bring about an era of bipartisanship.  You overcome it by calling it what it is, and by appealing to the American people to throw the insincere partisans out of office.  Tell the Republicans to go find some decent, thoughtful conservatives, and then we can talk about bipartisanship.

It's never going to happen with the sort of Republicans who currently occupy Congress, and sadly, I question whether Obama could ever be a successful President on matters of foreign policy if he truly doesn't get that basic fact.  It's often not apparent right away whether a foreign policy decision was right or wrong, and it's awfully tough to muster the political capital to make the right decisions and stand by them when you're constantly being demagogued by partisans.  Obama may have the best judgment in the world, but the solution has to start with getting rid of the problem.  And the problem is not just George Bush.



Display:


Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

You back up with great evidence just what it is that bothers me so much about Obama's rhetoric on bipartisanship.

I, too, was troubled in the debate last night by his statement blaming Bush for polarizing the country. The GOP has been viciously partisan at least going back to the Nixon Watergate era.

And Reagan's kicking off his campaign for president in Philadelphia, Mississippi, the scene of the brutal murder of civil rights workers -- well, what was that if not an effort to polarize?


by Coral on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:34:51 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

I agree that SteveM and you make a pretty convincing arguments.  

But would you agree that the polarization has gotten worse lately? (this is a real question)

I mean, the judges Bush appoints are really only the most extreme.  He and his surrogates have politicized everything from science to the judiciary.  The Iraq War reconstruction effort, or whatever you call that debacle, was basically a "neocons only" party.  And Bush has defied his party on only several occasions throughout his entire tenure while vetoing nearly every spending bill passed by Democrats this year.

This style of leadership is part of the reason that his numbers remain in the toilet.  I think that's where the conventional wisdom about people wanting bipartisanship comes from.

Then again, I understand the concerns about Obama.  We've seen what compromise gets you these days (Tom Daschle anyone?).

So do you think Bush really is like any other President?  Is this just the reality of American politics?


by the mollusk on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 2)

Bush has definitely made it much, much worse.  But Bush's election was simply a crowning achievement of movement conservatism in general.  Bush will be gone, but the Republican party will still be run by movement conservatives.  Until they get back to a reasonable place, we're always going to have a hard time accomplishing things in a bipartisan way.

Let's think back to the Hillarycare debacle in the 90s.  Now everyone, including the Clintons themselves, will acknowledge that the Clintons made some political mistakes in that process.  But fundamentally, it's important to remember that the Republicans simply were not going to let us have UHC in any way, shape or form.  Leading neocon Bill Kristol advised Republicans that they must "kill" the Clinton plan, not simply agree to a compromise, because passing any form of UHC would "revive the reputation of the Democrats as the generous protector of middle-class interests."  In other words, irrespective of the merits, their overriding goal was simply to make sure the Democrats wouldn't get a political win.  You can't bargain with people who operate this way.

Republican behavior in the current Congress shows disappointing signs that they haven't changed at all.  Mitch McConnell and the rest have explicitly adopted a strategy of blocking every single thing the Democrats try to do, hoping that at the end of the day they'll be able to criticize the Democratic majority for not getting anything done.  As Trent Lott said a few months ago, "the strategy of being obstructionist can work or fail... so far it's working for us."  We've all seen the terrible numbers for Congress' approval ratings.

In my view, the Democrats' simple duty in such circumstances is to make sure the American people understand what's going on.  The Democrats not only have to be clear about their agenda, but they have to be clear that Republican obstructionism and partisanship is the reason why it's not happening.  If the American people don't understand going into the next election that the Republicans have been filibustering virtually every bill for the last two years, then we haven't done our job in terms of communicating.

Most people don't follow politics closely.  A large percentage of people couldn't even tell you which party controls Congress, or which party their individual Congressman or Senator belongs to.  Republicans count on this when they try to blur the lines and make the narrative one of a "do-nothing Congress," as opposed to an obstructionist Republican minority.  If you don't tell people the Republicans are the ones getting in the way, they're not going to figure it out on their own.

Ideally, what happens is that you call them out on their partisanship, the American people respond by punishing them at election time, and then the remaining Republicans get the message and decide to be more reasonable.  I don't see another way to get there.  Allowing them to blur the lines between the parties just helps them get away with their obstructionism.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:22:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks for the detailed response, n/t (none / 0)


by the mollusk on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 05:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

but the solution has to start with getting rid of the problem.

That's exactly what Obama is saying. Krugman doesn't seem to get it. If by "getting rid of the problem" you mean getting rid of Republicans then we're talking about a civil war.

Otherwise "getting rid of the problem" means bringing the opposing sides together--it means bi-partisanship.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:38:00 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Do you want to "come together" with the John McCains, with the Newt Gingrichs, with the Tom DeLays?

Or do you want to get them out of office?

Obama is not talking in this quote about bringing together Republican and Democratic voters, he's talking about bringing together Republican and Democratic members of Congress.

And you're not going to bring together people who don't want to be brought together, and who are going to exploit differences in foreign policy as a weapon to try and win elections with.

You cannot find common ground with people who are determined not to act in good faith.  You can only call them out on their tactics and hope voters have the good sense to replace them.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:43:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

And you're not going to bring together people who don't want to be brought together, and who are going to exploit differences in foreign policy as a weapon to try and win elections with.

True. And the way to exploit that is to make it clearly evident that WE are willing to work with them but all they're interested in is partisanship.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:01:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

How do you suggest we make it evident that they are only interested in partisanship?

My criticism of Obama is that he seems unwilling to explicitly make that point.

If you think people will come to understand the point on their own, without it being made explicitly, you have to account for the fact that people still don't get it notwithstanding the long history of partisanship I've documented in this diary.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

What do you mean "he seems unwilling to explicitly make that point."?

He HAS made that point explicitly! You quote him making that point explicitly in this very diary! And sure he focuses on the Bush admin, but that's just being smart. It's not a good idea to claim that ALL republicans are only interested in partisanship (it's not even true) but it's a good idea to point it out in individual republicans, particularly when those individual republicans reside in the white house.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Because when you say the problem is the Bush Administration, you suggest that it's a problem which will go away when we replace the Bush Administration.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:25:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Isn't that Hillary Clintons whole idea of "change?" Replacing the Bush administration?

But I don't think pointing out that the Bushies have been the major part of the problem for the last seven years implies that they were the entire problem. They simply provide a convieniently symbolic target at the moment. Later, when other Republicans are doing it, he will have already set up the necessary memes and can use the same rhetoric against them.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

I have no idea whether Hillary has learned from Bill's missteps in the 90s.  I sure hope she has.

As for whether Obama will call out the Republicans in Congress for their partisanship at some point in the future, I simply don't share your faith.  I'm looking for a candidate who will do this now, as part of the process of explaining to people how we got here.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:25:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

I'm looking for a candidate who will do this now, as part of the process of explaining to people how we got here.

But for that to have any effect it will have to come from someone who is percieved as being solidly non-partisan. Otherwise all you've got is two sides endlessly saying, "I know you are, but what am I?"


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Nonsense.  Clinton has been able to work with people from the other side of the aisles aplenty.  She will be able to bring many of them to the table, no doubt.  The problem is that when you call Obama non-partisan, you sell the wishes of the Democratic party down the river.  How can OUR nominee be non-partisan?  What you are really then are calling for is a meeting in the middle (a middle ground) on everything.   That also means that you are really looking at Obama as a truly centrist candidate at this stage, right?


by georgep on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Semantics. (2.00 / 1)

Of course he's partisan when it comes to progressive issues, but that doesn't mean he needs to evince the kind of partisan battle bloodlust that many would like him to display, as if the very idea of any compromise with Republicans is traiterous to the Democratic party.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:39:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

That's a strawman, and you know it. Obama has a factual record of bringing people together to pass progressive policies. Obama is one of those people who are hard to pin down or box into conventional political categories, but if you could come up with one word to describe him it would certainly not be "non-partisan" or "centrist." He's a common sense pragmatist, like Clinton, which is a good thing, but also more idealistic and hopeful about politics than Clinton, which is also a good thing. Some words I would suggest are "Niebuhrian" or maybe even "Lincoln-esque."

But again if you look at his track record both his progressive credentials and his ability to get things done his are very apparent.


by Korha on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:44:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

It is not a strawman at all, and I don't "know it," either.  It is my personal opinion, but it is backed by factual evidence.  I look at his record, and his progressive credentials, while existing, are mixed.  Obama ranks 25th out of 100 Senators when it comes to his progressive record (as per progressive punch.)  He is right smack in the middle of Demcoratic Senators (#25 out of 51 Democratic Senators.)  That makes him sort of a middle of the roader, which obviously is vastly superior to any GOPer and also to conservative Democrats.


by georgep on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 05:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No we are talking about winning (none / 0)

Winning another 20 seats in the House and another 4 in the Senate and winning the White House.

Not to mention expanding on our 04 and 06 gains at the state level.  

If we can take even 10 more House seats, and 2 more Senate seats, plus the White House you will see a totally different Republican minority in the US Congress come January '09.  

The Republicans that are left will be looking to make deals and save their own sorry hides in future elections.  


by dpANDREWS on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We will be dealing from a position of strength (none / 0)

No bogus sell outs labeled as compromise, and no more vetos.


by dpANDREWS on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:52:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not necessary to become them (2.00 / 1)

in order to defeat them.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes. (2.00 / 1)

And the way to accomplish that is by showing the voters that we are the party that is focused on getting things done rather than being focused on partisan bickering. Let the Republicans continue being the "petty" party. Let them own that territory.

We can do better.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 12:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get things done? (none / 0)

What can we get done without defeating them?  S-Chip?  A timeline for Iraq?  An AMT fix?


by dpANDREWS on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:50:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No we are talking about winning (none / 0)

The Republican Party in Congress has been changed.  Look at the Republicans who retired and lost in 2006 and those retiring so far this year.  What little that was left of any moderate Republicanism has been irreparably shattered.  Sherwood Boehlert, Jim Leach, Joe Schwartz, Lincoln Chaffee, Rob Simmons, Mike Fitzpatrick, Jim Ramstad, Nancy Johnson, even Sue Kelly. Throw in John Warner and Chuck Hagel.  What's left of the moderates?  The Maine Ladies, Arlen Spector, and Chris Shays?  Well, that's getting (hopefully) cut in half this year.

These characters represesent deep red, mostly safe districts.  They won't be inclined to compromise.  They will just hunker down into an obstructionist minority and try to rule or at least ruin through the complicity of the Bush Dogs.  


by David Kowalski on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 06:49:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Winning breeds winning (none / 0)

You see that now with states like KY looking like they are competetive.  2 Yrs ago no one would have believed KY and McConnell would be a competetive race.


by dpANDREWS on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 09:17:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Very good analysis.  The american people will say that they want bipartisanship but when you look at opinion polls they disaprove of the republicans in congress even more than the democrats.  The problem with reaching out to them is that their version of bipartisanship is that we do everything their way and that is NOT what people want.  They do not want the republicans version of America anymore and we are obligated to abide by their wishes.
This is what Obama doesn't get. For a smart man he is amazingly clueless on this point.
He is constantly selling out the democratic brand and I for one and sick to death of it.  We need to defend our brand.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:37:17 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Electability or bipartisanship. The choice is clear.


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:52:47 PM EST

Yes. (2.00 / 1)

Breakfast cereal or bananas. The choice is clear.

?


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yes. (none / 0)

coffee, tea .... (now let's not hijack this diary with a cascade.)


Dare to be free.
by misscee on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I read this sentence completely differently (2.00 / 2)

And there's some wonderful Republicans -- Dick Lugar, Chuck Hagel -- there are a group of them who have continued that tradition, but we have lost it because the polarization of the Bush administration.

He's referencing pretty specifically a small group of elder statesmen --- I think you could safely add John Warner to that group based on Obama's previous statements --- that represent a certain amount of bipartisanship.  And it's also clear what he's talking about: working with Lugar on nuclear non-proliferation, things like that.

No, he wasn't talking about embracing the Delays, the Limbaughs, or the McCains (who was never was and never will be the straight-talking moderate the press would love to portray him as), and obviously Obama worked his tail off in 2006 to elect a Democratic Congress.  He fights to win.

Obama talks a lot about this in The Audacity of Hope, in which he gives a much more thoughtful and ambivalent account than you give him credit for.  He first trashes the idea of a golden age of bipartisanship in the 1950s, decrying how it was based on segregation and exclusion.

But then he dwells on the fact that there is still something to the argument that there is a level of civility that pervades every interaction between, for example, Robert Byrd and John Warner --- that you simply do not find otherwise.  

And nowhere than in the example of Byrd is this ambivalence more visible.  Obama dwells for several pages of Byrd's civility in the light of his past in the KKK.  

I respect your opinion, Steve M, and you're a thoughtful writer, but I think you give Obama far too little credit for understanding the basics.

As far as bipartisanship in a future senate, yes, Warner is retiring, but he'll be replaced by a Democratic (and maybe six of them).  We'll need fewer Republicans to make the difference.


One Million Strong --- Join up
by psericks on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 01:56:49 PM EST

Re: I read this sentence completely differently (none / 0)

Maybe I'll have to read the book.

Krugman also talks in his book about the bipartisanship in the 50s, and makes a numerical case that the liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats who made bipartisanship possible simply don't exist any more.

To maybe clarify myself a little, I'm not saying Obama is clueless about the fact that partisanship exists on the other side, but that he doesn't seem to understand he needs to point it out for people.  I think this was a failing of Clinton during the 90s and I think our next President has to learn from that.  You can't just sit there and let them shed crocodile tears over the idea of kids coming home in body bags.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:03:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Here's what I would do immediately. I would convene a continuous advisory meeting with not just Democrats, but Republicans, specifically on national security issues, because there is a long tradition that our differences in foreign policy should end at the water's edge. And we have lost that tradition.

The contradiction is that Obama then turns around and presents himself as someone who can radically change the long-standing tradition of bi-partisan foreign policy. Aside from the aberations of George Bush and the waning days of the Viet Nam war, US foreign policy has usually been bi-partisan on the big issues. It is precisely this well-established bi-partisan foreign policy that Obama claims he wants to overturn.


by hwc on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:16:03 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Did we have a bipartisan foreign policy in the 90s?  I think I provide ample evidence to the contrary in this diary.

Did we have a bipartisan foreign policy in the 80s?  I recall such a deep divide between the parties that Oliver North wound up running a secret foreign policy shop in the basement of the White House.

Even the Gulf War, the shiny happy moment when we built alliances with the whole world and gloriously kicked Saddam's ass with no adverse consequences, was opposed by virtually every Democrat in Congress.

The reason I focus on the 90s in this diary is that during that period, we can positively identify the Republicans' motivation as partisanship rather than genuine differences of ideology.  It's actually been quite a long time since Congress genuinely let the President set the tone on foreign policy notwithstanding differences in ideology.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Bipartisan foreign policy the norm?  Only for a few years.  Wilson ran head on into Republican obstructionism and literally crippled himself trying to fight it.  FDR ran into vicious Republican opposition.  He did work with those who could be worked with (Frank Knox, the Secretary of War during WWII was a Republican) but most were bitter enders.  Truman was mercilessly lampooned during much of this "bipartisan era."  JFK faced incredible Republican crap around and during the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Yes, there was some bipartisanship but it was far more common to have Democrats work with Eisenhower, Nixon, and Ford than to have Republicans work with Democrats.


by David Kowalski on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 06:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill Clinton on Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Mr. Clinton said that as a start, he would have brought Republicans and Democrats in to the White House for open-ended discussions designed to ease relationships between the two parties.

"If I had to do it over again, I would block out significantly greater time ... to just bring these guys in and let them say whatever the hell they want to say to me," Mr. Clinton said. "You know, most of these people are pretty smart. Most of them didn't get there by accident."

Beyond that, here are a few of the guidelines for future presidents - whoever he or she may be - that Mr. Clinton offered in the interview with Mr. Brownstein:

*Keep abreast of opposing views. "If there is an op-ed where someone says, `I think the president is wrong on this policy and here's why,' I want to see that."

*Build bipartisan momentum. in this case, Mr. Clinton said he should have pressed welfare as his first big domestic initiative, where there was some agreement between the parties, rather than the health care plan.

*Build relationships with opponents. "To pretend that because you disagree on these things, you've got to demonize the other guy and paralyze the country, that's the error."

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ 11/12/bill-clinton-gives-advice-on-presi dential-role/


by Korha on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:42:09 PM EST

Re: Bill Clinton on Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Just to elaborate, the President shouldn't be trying to build an adversarial relationship with Congress right off the bat. Of course that will happen eventually, but it should be the first and not the last resort. Obviously, there are people like Tom Delay etc. who you wouldn't even try to work with, and it's perfectly right to call them the problem, because they are the problem. Perhaps even the majority of the Republican party in Congress is like that. But many of them are not, and that's who you need to build relationships with and negotiate with and bargain with if you want to pass something like universal health care. This is true if you look at the historical record--the domestic achievements of FDR and LBJ vs. the last few years of the Bush Administration, for example. Congressional representatives and Senators are people, not robots--successful people at that, with all the pettiness and arrogance that success entails. Openness, dialogue, and a little respect goes a long long way.

I think what Obama brings to the White House is a proven ability to work with the other side in a common sense and amiable fashion--that's what he did in the Illinois State Senate and is doing now in the U.S. Senate. Clinton failed at that during the 1990's health care fiasco, but since then she seems to have learned her lesson and ought to be fairly capable. And I believe Edwards' trial lawyer approach to Congress is deeply flawed, which is why he's far down on my list of primary candidates.  

Bipartisanship is not a unicorn at all. Unless you want to call the New Deal a unicorn or the Civil Rights Act a unicorn.


by Korha on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton on Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Man, I thought you were making good points until I got to the last line.  The entire point is that we're not living back in the good old days of bipartisanship.  Krugman shows this with a very clear numerical analysis in his book.

You can talk all you want about bipartisanship as it existed back in the 60s, but I've shown you the evidence of how Congress actually worked in the 90s.  Bill Clinton was perfectly willing to reach across the aisle and they demagogued him at every opportunity.  They won't change their behavior just because we wish it so.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill Clinton on Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Well, honestly Bill Clinton probably has the most credibility on diagnosing what Bill Clinton should have done. He says explicitly that not reaching out more in the beginning of his administration was a mistake. And that was the 90's.  

Even in the Bush Administration I think the difference between their early, bipartisan successes and their later, nakedly partisan failures is quite instructive. Forget the democrats, Bush doesn't even have his own party on his side anymore except on the one issue of the Iraq War.

There was a great article in the Atlantic on "The Rove Presidency" that is well worth reading:

Rove's greatest shortcoming was not in conceptualizing policies but in failing to understand the process of getting them implemented, a weakness he never seems to have recognized in himself. It's startling that someone who gave so much thought to redirecting the powers of government evinced so little interest in understanding how it operates. Perhaps because he had never worked in government--or maybe because his standing rested upon his relationship with a single superior--he was often ineffective at bringing into being anything that required more than a presidential signature [...]

His lack of fluency in the art of moving policy and his tendency to see the world through the divisive lens of a political campaign were great handicaps. There was an important difference between the administration's first-term achievements and the entitlement overhauls (Social Security and Medicare) and volatile cultural issues (immigration) that Rove wanted to push through next. Cutting taxes and furnishing new benefits may generate some controversy in Washington, but few lawmakers who support them face serious political risk. (Tax cuts get Republicans elected!) So it's possible, with will and numbers alone, to pass them with the barest of majorities. Rove's mistake was to believe that this would work with everything.

Entitlement reform is a different animal. More important than reaching a majority is offering political cover to those willing to accept the risk of tampering with cherished programs, and the way to do this is by enlisting the other side. So the fact that Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress after 2002--to Rove, a clinching argument for confrontation--actually lessened the likelihood of entitlement reform. Congressional Republicans didn't support Rove's plan in 2003 to tackle Social Security or immigration reform because they didn't want to pass such things on a party-line vote. History suggested they'd pay a steep price at election time. [...]

At the Christian Science Monitor lunch just after the reelection, Rove, then at the apogee of his power, had no time for nostrums like bipartisanship or negotiation. Armed with his policy title and the aura of political genius, he pressed for the Social Security changes so far denied him. In many ways, this decision was the fulcrum of the Bush presidency. Had Bush decided not to pursue Social Security or had he somehow managed to pursue it in a way that included Democrats, his presidency might still have ended up in failure, because of Iraq. But the dramatic collapse of Rove's Social Security push foreclosed any other possibility. It left Bush all but dead in the water for what looks to be the remainder of his time in office. [...]

Unlike Reagan, Bush did not produce a bill that could have served as a basis for negotiation--nor did he seriously consult any Democrats with whom he might have negotiated. Instead, Rove expected a bill to emerge from Congress. The strategy of a president's outlining broad principles of what he'd like in a bill and calling on Congress to draft it has worked many times in the past. But Rove had no allies in Congress, had built no support with the American public, and had chosen to undertake the most significant entitlement reform since Reagan by having Bush barnstorm the country speaking before handpicked Republican audiences with the same partisan fervor he'd brought to the presidential campaign trail--all of which must have scared the living daylights out of the very Republicans in Congress Rove foolishly counted upon to do his bidding. The problems buried for years under the war and then the presidential race came roaring back, and Bush got no meaningful support from the Hill. He was left with a flawed, unpopular concept whose motive--political gain--was all too apparent.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200709/ka rl-rove


by Korha on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:33:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Total Strawman (none / 0)

Look closely in your mirror- this diary is demagoguery practiced by a partisan.

I'll make you a deal though- you can continue to focus on fighting with the Gingrichs and DeLays of the world and we will listen to and work with those reasonable people across the aisle to get things done.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:46:27 PM EST

Re: Total Strawman (2.00 / 2)

How's that working out for you?  How much have we gotten done in the Senate this session?

I have no problem with Democrats working with the other side when the option is available.  But when the other side decides to play partisan games instead, you have to do more than just wish they would stop it.  You're confusing talking about bipartisanship with actual bipartisanship.

Bill Clinton was more than happy to engage in bipartisanship and this is how they treated him.  Meanwhile, the moderate Republicans we can reach out to are a vanishing breed.

All of the things I've said in this diary are well-documented and true.  Ever since Bill Clinton took office, the Republicans have been using foreign policy to try and beat Democrats over the head at every opportunity.  Good luck to any Democrat holding the office if they continue to stand by and do nothing about this.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Total Strawman (2.00 / 1)

But when the other side decides to play partisan games instead, you have to do more than just wish they would stop it.

Absolutely. But you also have to be coming from a position of not playing those games yourself. It's not necessary to become them in order to defeat them.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Total Strawman (none / 0)

Where in this diary did I say we should exploit foreign policy for partisan gain?  I said exactly the opposite.

You seem to be saying that the person who opposes a foreign policy decision for insincere reasons of partisanship, and the person who correctly points out that they are doing that, are simply two sides of the same coin.  That's crazy to me.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:31:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Total Strawman (2.00 / 1)

Yet you criticize Barack Obama for saying essentially the same thing you are now saying? Obama has criticized partisanship and talked about bringing in voices from the other side of the ailse, yet this is a "unicorn" when he says it.

You seem to be saying that the person who opposes a foreign policy decision for insincere reasons of partisanship, and the person who correctly points out that they are doing that, are simply two sides of the same coin.  That's crazy to me.

That's crazy to me too. Good thing I didn't say that.

You know, maybe I'm just not really clear on what you ARE saying. You want Obama to call out Republicans for playing partisan games. He has done so with selected Republicans. If he started saying ALL Republicans were only interested in partsisan gamesmanship then he would himself be engaging in partisan gamesmanship.

So what exactly would you like him to say?


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0)

We would have gotten a lot done if a Democrat were in the white house with the same composition in Congress.


by Korha on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:48:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

There will be no way to reach over and agree with the current repug leadership. People that fit the mold of Frist, McConnell, Lott, Delay... They will always raise hell about anything if its a Democrat bringing it up.  But unless there are 60 Dem Senators, the Dems have to work with moderates.  You will only need a handful, and the rest can go to hell.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 02:47:03 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

You will only need a handful, and the rest can go to hell.

Bingo. But to get even that handful we need a President who isn't him/herself a rabid partisan.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:05:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

not necessarily, you need a president who can make the center right repugs look like complete assholes and devils if they dont go along with a plan like S-Chip. The repugs in purple states, those who have to watch their back for an electorate who can potentially get really pissed at them.  Those are the ones you work with, and i use work with loosely. What i mean is, those are the ones that you twist their arm, grab their ear, and tackle them if they dont come around.  Those are the ones that would be in trouble with their home state constituents. Those are the ones yuo go after. Sure, you give them praise when they do the right (left) thing, and you give them some carrots so they stay happy, but you have to go out and knee cap them, because if they dont follow along, they may not have a job in come the following election.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:15:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Obama will present the new face of America to the world, and while not perfect, it is damn better than anything else in sight.


by aiko on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:29:28 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

You can't constantly be planning the future by looking in the rear view mirror. Obama is trying to simultaneously help move the direction of the Republican party toward the reaasonablenes of Lugar and Hagel and that tradition. The tradition of American politics where it was normal to appoint someone like William Cohen Sec of Defense. People talk as if a unified country where things work is a myth. It may not appear that way in the immediate view of the recent past behind us, but that past is an anomoly more than anything else, a low point in our history, and that's not a Unicorn ahead of us - it's a white horse who's just happy to see someone who's willing to get back on and ride.


by Piuma on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 03:47:51 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

Let's not forget that the country was truly united behind Bush in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks. It would have been the same if Al Gore had been president, except that in Gore's case he wouldn't have squandered his incredible mandate to build a new foreign policy consensus for the 21st century.

So I think our post-9/11 foreign policy polarization is mainly due to the Bush Administration, yes, and their constant use of fear and division for political gain. If we get a new President, we can chart a new direction.


by Korha on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So what do you want him to say? (2.00 / 1)

If he calls out the entire Republican party then he's guilty of the very type of partisan BS that he speaks out against, but when he does call out specific Republicans, such as Bush, then you say he doesn't go far enough.

What do you actually want to hear him say?


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:00:09 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

I don't know Steve.  Sounds to me like you're advocating a plan of demonizing and browbeating your opponents into submission.  Even if they do deserve it, I don't see this as a particularly effective long-term strategy.  That stuff just fuels resentment and amplifies the problem, which quickly becomes intractable.  This is exactly why George Bush has been struggling in the polls for the past 2-3 years.  I'm surprised you can't see that.


by Will Graham on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:09:55 PM EST

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

The alternative is that the Republicans continue to play this game of rabid partisanship because, in the name of bipartisanship, we're afraid to tell the American people that's what they're doing.

The long-term goal is to get the Republicans to stop behaving like rabid partisans.  They do it because they think it's to their political advantage.  If you won't even tell the people what they're up to, and give the voters a chance to punish them for it at the polls, there's no reason for them to ever stop.

Again, pointing out the other side's rabid partisanship should not be confused for engaging in rabid partisanship yourself.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

If you point out specific instances of individual Republicans engaging in rabid partisanship then that's not rabid partisanship. If you say that all Republicans are rabid partisans then that IS rabid partisanship. And it's counter productive. Now tat you've made yourself a rabid partisan you've got no more cred to point it out when they do it too.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:31:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

I'm literally laughing at the idea that it's all just individual Republicans randomly deciding to engage in specific instances of partisanship.  The 1990s did not consist of a decade-long period of kumbaya on foreign policy with the exception of a few evil Republicans that I've cherry-picked for purposes of this diary.  This is how the Republican caucus behaved, each and every time Clinton had a foreign policy decision.

Have you been watching Congress for the past year?  The Republicans in the Senate are filibustering, as a bloc, every single bill.  If you think we can't even educate voters about that fact without being guilty of "rabid partisanship" ourselves, then you've completely lost me.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:37:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

You can educate voters about that, but you have to do it by pointing out specific instances and not just empty accusations about an entire party, and if you're talking specific instances then you're talking specific individuals.

Otherwise all you have is the equavalent of, "Republicans are bad!"

"No! Democrats are bad!"

"I know you are but what am I!"

"NO! I know YOU are, but what am I!"

etc. Unless you can come up with highly solid evidence of a "Vast right wing conspiricy" then it's really smarter not to mention it, even if you believe such a conspiricy exists. But pointing to specific actions of specific individuals is no problem at all.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

I don't know why you think it's so hard to just say that the Republicans are filibustering every bill.

I don't feel we are getting any closer to communicating with each other.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:51:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Because they're not filibustering every bill. hyperbole doesn't help either.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:54:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (none / 0)

You are extremely difficult to have a conversation with.

Republicans are on a pace to TRIPLE the previous record for filibusters in one session of Congress.

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

The idea that it's "rabid partisanship" merely to point out that the Republicans are doing this is silly.  This isn't happening because of one or two or three individual Republicans.  There's a concerted effort, and either you explain that to the American people, or you leave them with the Republican-generated impression that "Congress" as a whole is failing to get anything done.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 05:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

The idea that it's "rabid partisanship" merely to point out that the Republicans are doing this is silly.

It is indeed. I never said that though, so I don't see what that has to do with the price of peas in China.

Pointing out factual information like that is quite different from just saying, "The republicans are all just partisan!" The former is factual and the later is a rabidly partisan attack.

And really either one is better than saying, "The republicans are filibustering every bill!"

I see no reason why Obama, or any of the other candidates, shouldn't point out that fact. Have any of them done so in a significant way? Or is it only Obama who's supposed to be doing this?


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 06:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and the Unicorn of Bipartisanship (2.00 / 1)

Oh yeah, and you can't go back to the 90's to make your case either. No one wants to hear, "But look what they did in the 90's!" Make the case in the present tense, which means we mostly get to talk about Bush--which is exactly what Obama has been doing.


by Mystylplx on Fri Nov 16, 2007 at 04:51:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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