Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary?

Wha-?

Between campaign appearances last week, as he rode through eastern Iowa in his campaign van, Mr. Edwards declined to answer whether he would support Mrs. Clinton.

"I'm not willing to talk about that at this point," he said, waiting silently until the next question was asked.

Not willing to talk about it? Why? Is contemplating the mere prospect of a Clinton presidency somehow going to make it so? Is he afraid of jinxing himself? Because his rhetoric has consistently been of a proud partisan, of someone I always thought would both support the Democratic nominee over the Republican every time, but also extol the virtue of doing so. Call Democrats to rally around the nominee, even before he or she has been determined. And I always thought it was Barack Obama who was the less comfortable with the partisan language, yet it is he who, when asked the same question, said:

"I am a Democrat, and I would support the Democratic nominee," he said. With a smile, he added, "I intend it to be me."

Or Biden who stated the obvious.

...Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, who declared: "Of course. What's the choice, Rudy Giuliani?"

So what's the problem, Senator Edwards? Does Hillary Clinton really offend to such a degree that it pains you to pledge to support the nominee of your own party? And I guess I would ask the same of everyone here who would have the same reticence. Will you pledge to support Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee of the party and if not why? Take the poll in the comments.

Update [2007-11-13 14:41:57 by Todd Beeton]:Edwards was asked the question again and his answer was still equivocal although better (h/t TPM):

"I fully expect to support the Democratic nominee, and I fully expect to be the Democratic nominee."

Is Larry Craig advising him now or what?


Poll
Will you pledge to support Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee?
Yes
No

Votes: 60
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

I'll start it off with a yes.


by Todd Beeton on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:09:01 PM EST

maybe he's worried about this (none / 0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USyKCDSfc Rs&eurl=http://www.mydd.com/story/20 07/11/13/12443/570


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Going off on a tangent (none / 0)

But after seeing that clip, I find it amusing that Lieberman is now being courted to run against the Clintons.  I have no doubt that Lieberman would gladly do so.


by magster on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:31:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

II KNEW you were NOT a Democrat! (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:32:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is he tthinking about running as an Independentt? (none / 0)

DEMOCRATS SUPPORT OUR PARTY - ALWAYS!

ALWAYS

ALWAYS

ALWAYS


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What if our party is wrong? n/t (none / 0)


by MNPundit on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:16:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

elect the republicans? (none / 0)


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It often is (none / 0)

Unfortunately, our choice is binary, not infinite.  Here's my take:

Democrats - definitely don't represent ME or MY POSITIONS.  However, I can live with them.

Republicans - utterly inimical to me, all my values, my life, and everything that I stand for.  They are The Enemy, and must be defeated.

That's an easy choice.


by Trickster on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

if you think you get to pick and choose (none / 0)

your an independent.

get it?


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:04:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (2.00 / 1)

I consider myself a Democrat and, in answer to the poll question above, I would absolutely support Hillary Clinton if she's the nominee.

HOWEVER, being a Democrat doesn't mean you have to vote the straight party ticket. In fact, I can't stand the morons who don't bother to educate themselves on the issues and the candidates and make honest selections, and blindly just check all of the "D" or "R" boxes.

Most of the time, after reviewing all of the candidates, I end up voting for all Democrats. Sometimes, someone corrupt sneaks in and gets nominated by our party. I will not vote for a corrupt politician, regardless of party. Sometimes, especially in local races (like, county commissioners or whatever), a Republican or independent might be legitimately more qualified and have better ideas. I feel I'm justified in choosing not to support the Democrat.

I support good government first, the Democratic Party second. Most of the time, there's never a conflict, and the Democrats are the best choices for our country. But sometimes, when there is a conflict, I choose to pick the best person for the job, even if that means breaking with the party.

So, am I a Democrat? I think that I am.


Walberg Watch - Following Radical Conservative Rep. Tim Walberg in MI-07
by Fitzy on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:22:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Youre what we IN THE PARTY (none / 0)

system...define as a "strong dem leaning independent".

Thats what you are, It doesnt matter how many words you writee about your feelings about this.

We have primary systems to choose our candidates....its not a cafeteria, where you get to pick and choose...we fight amongst ourselves to select our nominee...and then we fight together to support our Partys ticket.

You dont have to do this, butt then that choice would make you an "Independent"


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Youre what we IN THE PARTY (none / 0)

Sigh...

This is a really fruitless discussion between the two of you.

And Holden, your idea of the democratic party reminds me of... a very undemocratic party.

The democratic party isnt a party where you give up to vote your conscience just by checking "D" on the voter registration form.

The democratic party isnt a party where you pledge to vote "D" whatever the choices.

Just by voting once or a few times for a non democrat or abstaining to vote doesnt mean you are an independent. It just means you have your own brain and are using it.

Whoever considers himself a democrat, is a democrat. Its not you to decide who is a democrat.

What would indeed be very wrong, is that someone running in apartys primary, loosing the primary and then running as an independent.

But John Edwards is no Joe Lieberman!


by MarcTGFG on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

whats with you people? (1.00 / 1)

what dont you understand about the word 'Independent"?

look up and notice that TWENTY FIVE % of the folks in this poll said that they would not...

God - thick headed pain in the neck Naderite PINOs - GOD DAMN!

What the hell do you think we hold Primaries for - so you can say....nh...Im going my own way?

that means your  "I" not a "D".

JEEZE!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why on earth would he pledge to... (2.00 / 1)

support someone who mostly likely (certainly) planted stories about him in the enquirer. That would be a HELL to the NO.


It's an election, not an auction.
by cosbo on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:36:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ANOTHER NON DEM FOR EDWARDS!.. (2.00 / 1)

and you have no proof of that you false and foolish Naderite!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:41:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (1.50 / 2)

EXCUSE ME?  Edwards supporters are showing their true, shameful, colors.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

Ditto for Clinton supporters. 'Oh no, someone said disparaging against hillary! Better make a deal out of it! C'mon 81st keyboard brigade!'


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:43:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

No, he stated "HELL NO" to the question whether he would vote for Clinton or not.  That goes well beyond a "disparaging comment."  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:02:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

Wow....did I see a hell anywhere? Nope.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

You didn't?  Here is the quote:

"support someone who mostly likely (certainly) planted stories about him in the enquirer. That would be a HELL to the NO."


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:48:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

linkage needed.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

You probably mistook my comment.  I was referring to a poster upthread a bit.


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is about Party loyalty (none / 0)

something you naderitess wouldnt understand!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

You and Holden are very, very quick to disparage any Edwards or Obama supporter who refuses to pledge to support Hillary.  They're a bunch of shameful Naderites, you tell them.

Here's a comment from yesterday from the most visible Clinton supporter on this site.

I will try everything I can to derail Obama in primary. Should unexpected happens, I will do everything in my power to derail his chance in GE. I will never tolerate a fraud propped by the MSM who's using one race against another, using one generation against another.

Obama, an empty suit, is George W. Bush on steroid.

Where were you guys?

I see comments like this all the time, directed at both Obama and Edwards.

Where are the Clinton supporters, who today are so eager to make sure everyone swears a loyalty oath?  Why does it not set off a single alarm bell for you when a Clinton supporter says they wouldn't support Obama or Edwards?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:59:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

I can't speak for others, but I sure will support whoever the nominee is.  That is what this nomination process is all about in the first place.  We look at all candidates and decide which one, on balance, is the one we want.  Heck, this is the longest vetting process I can personally remember, so after this is over we sure will have gotten a lot of info.

If Clinton is asked that same question I expect her to answer in a strong affirmative without hesitating, EVEN if one might think that as the frontrunner she should not have to, or that she would open herself up to the theme that she may have a lot of doubt about herself winning the nomination, or some such nonsense.  This is about an affirmation to the party and its ongoing fight vs. the GOP, has really nothing to do with the primary itself.  

I disagree with the comment that Obama or Edwards should be derailed in the GE.  Had I seen that comment, I would have told the poster so.  

BTW, I never tell Obama or Edwards supporters that they are a "bunch of Naderites."   I am surprised you make that claim.  Maybe you can find one such quote, since you are attributing those comments to me?   I sincerely hope that you were joking or meant someone else, since I never use the term Naderites or PINO or whatever else you think you have seen.


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:10:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

I addressed you and Holden collectively, as I think my comment makes clear.  While the two of you use different language, the point is the same: you have a big problem with Edwards and Obama supporters who won't pledge to support Hillary, but no apparent problem with Clinton supporters who won't pledge to support Edwards or Obama if they win the nomination.

Just once, I want to see one of you guys call out your fellow Clinton supporters and tell them they're bad Democrats if they won't support the party's eventual nominee.  Just once.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

I have in the past.  Multiple times.  I will do so again:  Anyone who does not vote for the eventual Democratic nominee is not really a Democrat, in my book.

  I don't think you should get into the habit of posting collectively for several posters at the same time.  I don't call people names like Naderites or PINO's, even though I LIVED through the horrors of the Naderites (took 3 weeks off work to work full-time for Gore's GOTV Florida operation, because of the mockery I have seen Naderites make out of the Democratic nomination process and then after the Gore nomination was decided) and I see the same exact crap develop again now.    

On your point:  IMHO the opposite seems to be true, actually.  Most Edwards supporters have no problem seeing many in their midst affirming that Clinton is unsupportable (like cosbo here, also seen by many others - heck, look at the poll itself which shows it) on a daily basis and never say a single word about it, but they go after Clinton supporters for the SAME thing and have plenty of outrage THEN.  Maybe the same applies there?  Just once I would like to see such outrage dished out equally, not selectively.  Just once.


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:30:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

Well, I trust you'll agree that I'm not guilty of that sort of selective targeting, as I've called out more Hillary-haters than I can count.  Fortunately, this animus I see so much of in the blogosphere really doesn't seem to translate into the wider electorate.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ive only seen it once (none / 0)

and so ive only denounced it once...but...if you see it again...you may denounce it with THE HARSHEST TERMS in my name and I will be obliged...

I HAVE VOTED IN EVERY TWO YEAR ELECTION IN MY LIFE ANDE I HAVE VOED DEM FOR EVERY OFFICE BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY IM EVER VOTING FOR ANY REPUBLICAN EVER!

Unless they somehow clone Abe Lincoln...

plus, I dont pull the big lever, I pull all the little ones, one by one , in order to make it more emphatic how I feel...

I even voted for that midget dukakis after he slimed and destroyed my neighbor and Senator and  personal hero, Joe biden.  Ii didnt let my personal animus get in the way of my DUTY AS  A CITIZEN!

Hell, Bloom Countys Bill the Katt had a write in campaign going on in Austin, tX where I was att school - do you think I didnt wanna vote for him!?

AACK!!

Thats why I hate self indulgent Naderittes soooo much.  NONEe of them are to the left of me bucko - that you canbe sure of.  As a great labor priest once said of dear Ma, nobodys to the left of me except for Jesus himself...

The question always is - in this two Partty system and state - which side are you on?

I know wha side Im on Stteveo, dont you need worry yourself about MY LOYALTIES!

Butt I think you should question those of a man who can only say that he "INTENDS TO" support the only Party that defends working Americans!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i didnt see that...and I denounce it 100% (none / 0)

again, Ii will support any candidate chosen because I support my Party always...

See - I didnt say "I intend to"....I said "I would and I will"

How frigging hard is that?

Everyone should be madder than a peach orchard boar about this...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:13:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i didnt see that...and I denounce it 100% (none / 0)

There are lots of comments along these lines about Edwards and Obama.

I'd really like to see you berate prisonbreak and follow him around the site calling him a Naderite the same way you go after some of these other people.

The expectation of loyalty oaths seems to flow only in one direction.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:16:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i dont and wont follow anyone around the site.... (none / 0)

and if party loyalty means nothing to you maybe thats part of the reason and problem why you still havent been able to decide who you support even though you care enough about these things to spend time at a website like this!

What?  You have issues with commitment?  


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i dont and wont follow anyone around the site. (none / 0)

Party loyalty means plenty to me... well, at least at the national level.  I don't go around telling people they have to support whoever their local Democratic machine puts up for school board, or what have you.  An awful lot of Democrats voted for Mike Bloomberg to be the mayor of this fine town and while the man is a putz in many ways, I'm not prepared to tell all those thousands of folks that they're bad Democrats.

As for my support, I've always thought Edwards is our best candidate for 2008 and I'm not particularly shy about that.  Perhaps the reason why you're confused as to my support is that unlike virtually everyone else here, I have no serious problem with any of our candidates.  I think they're all good people.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i just was mad at ya...but... (none / 0)

"An awful lot of Democrats voted for Mike Bloomberg to be the mayor..."

is bogus...

a lot of fine dem leaning independents - yes -

Democrats, no.

And next time - vote for my pal Anthony Weiner - he'd be a wicked fun mayor....

The victory parties alone - and i mean plural -would make it worth your while...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:36:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i didnt see that...and I denounce it 100% (none / 0)

ive only seen it once

and so ive only denounced it once...but...if you see it again...you may denounce it with THE HARSHEST TERMS in my name and I will be obliged...

I HAVE VOTED IN EVERY TWO YEAR ELECTION IN MY LIFE ANDE I HAVE VOED DEM FOR EVERY OFFICE BECAUSE THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY IM EVER VOTING FOR ANY REPUBLICAN EVER!

Unless they somehow clone Abe Lincoln...

plus, I dont pull the big lever, I pull all the little ones, one by one , in order to make it more emphatic how I feel...

I even voted for that midget dukakis after he slimed and destroyed my neighbor and Senator and  personal hero, Joe biden.  Ii didnt let my personal animus get in the way of my DUTY AS  A CITIZEN!

Hell, Bloom Countys Bill the Katt had a write in campaign going on in Austin, tX where I was att school - do you think I didnt wanna vote for him!?

AACK!!

Thats why I hate self indulgent Naderittes soooo much.  NONEe of them are to the left of me bucko - that you canbe sure of.  As a great labor priest once said of dear Ma, nobodys to the left of me except for Jesus himself...

The question always is - in this two Partty system and state - which side are you on?

I know wha side Im on Stteveo, dont you need worry yourself about MY LOYALTIES!

Butt I think you should question those of a man who can only say that he "INTENDS TO" support the only Party that defends working Americans!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

i find the anti-obama post you refer to to be pretty despicable and counterproductive.  i feel that some people are going into self-destruct mode and forgetting that even your less-than-favorite democratic administration would beat the pants off any republican.


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:19:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will votte for any of tthem (none / 0)

and end up in Pa doing GOTV To drag out the vote for the last two -three weeks like I always do.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:42:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I will votte for any of tthem (none / 0)

and end up in Pa doing GOTV To drag out the vote for the last two -three weeks like I always do.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why on earth would he pledge to... (none / 0)

Senator Edwards answer the question!
Do you swear never to criticize Hillary?
Don't you agree that you cannot win the nomination?
Please state that Hillary is the best candidate running.
Do you pledge fealty to the Clinton Dynasty?

by anothergreenbus on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:41:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ANOTHER NADERITE EXPOSESS HIMSELF! (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:58:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dude, learn to spell (or proofread your posts) (none / 0)

   Maybe it is a matter of taking a deep breath or two before hitting "post".
   If one has to vote for all Democrats all the time to be a good Democrat, then I am a pretty lousy one. I am more concerned about a candidate's ideas, abilities and experience than whether they have a D after their name. Because of my political views, that means that I vote Dem over 90% of the time and almost never for a GOoPer. If an election is close and a Repub has a chance of winning then I am up over 99%. However, if someone is a DINO and doesn't deserve OR NEED my vote to win (or will lose anyway) then they don't get my vote. For example, I voted for DiFi for Senator in 1992 and 1994 but not since. She doesn't represent me very well; I'm not helping her get a landslide. When she really needed my vote in 1994 she got it. I also do not vote for my warhawk congresscritter, Howard Berman. He wins with about 70% every time but without my endorsement or vote.
    The presidential race is a special case for two reasons. One is the importance of the office, the other is whether CA's electoral votes are in question. If there is no doubt as to the result, what's the big deal is someone wants to do a protest vote? I am a practical guy about all this.
    Campaigning is another issue. If there is a candidate I like a lot I am more likely to want to give more effort to him or her. I expect to work some for the united Democratic campaign even if one our least appealing candidates like Clinton or Biden were to get the nomination, but if it is Clinton I am more likely to put more of my energy into congressional, legislative or ballot measure races. If I am not a good enough Dem for y'all then that's tough.

by Zack from the SFV on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

tthis loaner laptop sticks (1.00 / 1)

and ads and subtracts keystrokes -
tthen your a dem leaning independant and would HAVE NO BUSINESS RUNNING IN OUR -  scratch that - MY PARTY'S PRIMARIES FOR PRESIDENT

got it?


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 06:41:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tthis loaner laptop sticks (none / 0)

   OK I'll grant you your keyboard problem, but don't tell me I am not a Democrat. I am an officer of two local Democratic clubs, and a former boardmember of the Democratic Party of the San Fernando Valley (a local grassroots organization that runs one of the best GOTV operations in California). I am a registered Democrat, I vote in the primaries and give to my local organization, as well as to Democratic candidate campaigns from New Hampshire to New Mexico and beyond. If the requirement to be a Democrat is to always vote a straight ticket, then I would have to find another party or become an "decline to state" voter (the Californian translation of "independent"). You don't really expect me to vote for a$$holes like Feinstein or Cruz Bustamante, do you? Get real! this isn't just about "yay team!" but about trying to use electoral politics to effect positive social change.


by Zack from the SFV on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 09:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tthis loaner laptop sticks (1.00 / 1)

ya can always go Green.  


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 10:32:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tthis loaner laptop sticks (none / 0)

    Are you trying to hurt the Democratic Party? Our party is a coalition of diverse groups who don't always agree about everything or every candidate. You seem to have the idea of what the Chinese call "democratic centralism", which is basically that whatever the party leaders say is what will be, no questions asked or allowed. You would rather have activists like myself leave the party than work within it. Get a hold of yourself, kid!
    Why on earth did you take the blogname "Holden Caulfield"? It has been a long time since I read the book, but I remember the original Caulfield as someone that tried to make his own way in the world and make up his own mind. You are just another follower. Just what we needed: another generation of Clinton groupies...
    I don't have any problem with people feeling that HRC is the best candidate, but there is no need to alienate supporters of other candidates. You should turn off the computer and go walk a precinct or do some leafletting for your candidates. It would be more productive than your diaries about how all the rest of us aren't good enough Democrats... At least you aren't quite the worst Hillarybot here; that would probably be "areyouready" although you are working your way up the ranks.
by Zack from the SFV on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 11:40:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hey pal - take a hike with your sanctimony (1.00 / 1)

Holden hates phonies.  Thats his poit in the book and mine here.  he people who call Hill a corrupt liar are fakes and phonies.  She is no more "corrupt" or dishonest than Edwards or Obama. The people who attack her with such lines disgust me.

I dont give a flaming fuck if you think Im the worst "Hillarybot" here. And no, Im not a Clinton groupie, Im a former staffer and hopefully, a lifelong colleague and ally.

and be sure, I will in the fall do what I always do during elections, run GOTV for a major section of a major state - working with real Dems TO WIN BACK THE GOVERNMENT that you SOMETIMES Democrats caused us to lose in 2000.

And you can help us or not, I couldnt care any less.

Btw, I know Brbaraa Boxer, she thinks youre a tool...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 02:57:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey pal - take a hike with your sanctimony (none / 0)

Well, let me say this to the self-proclaimed former staffer: Even the NY Times in an an editorial on Oct. 20 wrote, "Every now and then, we are tempted to double-check that the Democrats actually won control of Congress last year." Noting how the Democratic House and Senate had rolled over and given the president permission to massively spy on Americans without showing any probable cause, the Times concluded, "It was bad enough having a one-party government when Republicans controlled the White House and both houses of Congress. But the Democrats took over, and still the one-party system continues."

This amounts to support for the crimes committed by the Bush-Cheney regime.  Your Democrats should be ashamed for supporting the war, supporting the pillaging of our civil and legal rights.  They have driven me out of their party by their collusion in high crimes.  Perhaps you can forgive this and maintain the illusion that getting Hillary elected will makes things better, but I see through the silliness of this hope.


by downtown democrat on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 04:53:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, let me say this to you (1.00 / 1)

kiss my ass you fake - and get hell out of OUR PRIMARY!

This is a site FOR DEMOCRATS - BY DEMOCRATS!

And thanks for showing your true colors - and your real identity -

Nice try thouugh choosing a name to cover your falsehood!

God, its sooo easy to get you people to dance!

There's not even any "sport" to it...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 05:03:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hey pal - take a hike with your sanctimony (none / 0)

   Holden, do you even bother reading the comments that you respond to? In my original comment I talked about the limited situations in which I may vote against a Democratic candidate. Basically, when I can make a statement without costing an election. My Senator (not the one you say thinks I'm a tool) has in the past few weeks voted for a Bushie racist for Judge (a life tenure position) and an Attorney General who thinks torture is OK. Why should I vote for her, especially when my vote will not determine the outcome?
   Now you are saying that I caused the Democrats to lose the government in 2000. As you should know, we lost the government in 1994 when we lost the Congress, not in 2000. That year Gore won the election, but it was stolen by the GOP Supreme Court and FL authorities. A long story. You insult me for no reason (re Boxer). What are you accomplishing with this? Do you feel self-righteous by tearing down others? I really don't get it.
   I hope that whatever "major section of a major state" you do GOTV in is nowhere near Southern CA, because your attitude (at least here in cyberspace) is atrocious. We're Democrats; we don't always agree but can usually come together in common purpose (like to defeat the Greedy Old Party). I wouldn't want you here at the DP/SFV headquarters because you seem to like nothing more than to stir shit up. It doesn't help you, or your favored candidate.
   It doesn't have to be this way. Tonight at the meeting of the Sherman Oaks Democratic Club (yes, real live people in a room together), we heard from speakers supporting the four candidates that have local campaigns in the Valley: Clinton, Edwards, Kucinich and Obama. Each gave a presentation and took questions from the audience. Nobody yelled at eachother or called anyone a tool. We talked about our differences and our common interests. We know that we will be working  together in the general election and in the years ahead, so we don't talk trash. It works better that way. We San Fernando Valley Democrats kick ass; we turn out our votes so that we are now a Democratic stronghold rather than the swing area we used to be twenty years ago.
     To wrap it up: Don't be an asshole, whether online or in "meat space". It doesn't reflect well on you, your candidates or party. And don't try to kick people out of the party; instead try to make them welcome to make our party stronger and more inclusive.
by Zack from the SFV on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 03:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yes i read your commentss (none / 0)

I especially liked these:  

Are you trying to hurt the Democratic Party?

You are just another follower. Just what we needed: another generation of Clinton groupies...

but there is no need to alienate supporters of other candidates.

I wouldn't want you here at the DP/SFV headquarters because you seem to like nothing more than to stir shit up. It doesn't help you, or your favored candidate.

I hope that whatever "major section of a major state" you do GOTV in is nowhere near Southern CA, because your attitude (at least here in cyberspace) is atrocious.

You should turn off the computer and go walk a precinct or do some leafletting for your candidates. It would be more productive than your diaries about how all the rest of us aren't good enough Democrats...

At least you aren't quite the worst Hillarybot here; that would probably be "areyouready" although you are working your way up the ranks.

Don't be an asshole, whether online or in "meat space". It doesn't reflect well on you, your candidates or party. And don't try to kick people out of the party

------

I cant stand passsive-aggresive bs like this.  

You folks all argue like this...you attack and insult the honor of someone you oppose, like hillary or your Senator, and then when theres a pushback - you whine about how others like me are  being so rude to you - and then  you insult and slander back with full gusto as you do it.

I wonder, do they teach you this kind of jab-complain-insult-jab discourse at green party usa.

I argue with and fight back witth onlt two kinds of people here - who really are the just one  group..doing who things i hold in contempt as a real lifelong dem.

those that call Mrs. Clinton - who i know and respect and care for- a lying, dishonest, corporate sell out...which i know is nothing but slanderous bs, so i take great offense at it -

ad the people who threaten or say they wont vote for her if she is the nominee.

I say both these groups are made up of 100% hypocrites and frauds and i dont choose to make nice or be civil to them as long as they do or threaten to do these vile acts.

These people ARE NOT DEMOCRATS and real dems dont care if they leave and vote for Nader again in 2008...

If theyre that selfish and stupid, screw em, good riddance, we'll deal without them.

And by the way, Babs is a true friend of mine and she would understand and agree with every word that I wrote.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 05:35:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not "you folks" (none / 0)

   I am one person. Don't lay all of your anger on me or dishonor me by putting words into my mouth. Have I ever called Sen. Clinton a "lying ,dishonest..." No, I have not. Have I said that I would not vote for her if she is the nominee? No, not that either. I also don't think you should try to speak for Senator Boxer, for whom I campaigned starting in the 1992 primary when she first ran. Stop acting like an asshole; you can do better.      
    Really, you are doing nobody any good. There is no reason to continuing this exchange. You are dead to me at this point. Goodbye.
by Zack from the SFV on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 01:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ohno- how can i live? (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Thu Nov 15, 2007 at 03:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong question, Todd. (2.00 / 3)

It should have been will you support the Dem nominee, whoever that is, in the election.  Why should Clinton get props.  The media attention give to C & O isn't helping the voters make informed decisions and we in the blogosphere should not be supporting that.  So, no, today I will not answer your poll because it smacks of the inevitability meme, I very much oppose.  Hope you do to.


by santamonicadem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong question, Todd. (none / 0)

Ridiculous.  Clinton is the clear frontrunner and likely nominee.  Of course the question made sense.


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wrong question, Todd. (2.00 / 1)

It means a free pass is given to people like areyouready/prisonbreak, who said yesterday that if Obama was the nominee he would do everything in his power to ensure his defeat.

In my view, such a person should be ostracized by our community, period.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:50:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, all you HRC supporters, will (none / 0)

you support Edwards or Obama if they are the nominee?  


by santamonicadem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:08:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, all you HRC supporters, will (none / 0)

Of course.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:27:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

of course they will (none / 0)

I will bet you won't get a single negative response.  Now lets see all the Edwards supporters say the same and Edwards too.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:27:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll happily support any Democrat (none / 0)

except Hillary.


by PDiddie on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:35:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: of course they will (none / 0)

Again....why do I have to support hillary.

If Hillary wins the nomination I won't be an activist one bit for her. I won't hurt her or the party, and I won't tell people to vote republican, because that's just stupid.

But I don't feel the need to be an activist for a nominee whose ideology is so different from mine.

It's not about who you support. It's about 'Do I feel comfortable with this person as my president?'

And if I can't, then I shouldn't have to go out and help them get elected. They are supposed to WIN my vote.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So, all you HRC supporters, will (none / 0)

Of course.  ANY DEMOCRAT worth his label will ALWAYS support ANY CANDIDATE the voters of our party decide to nominate.   That is what this process is all about.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:13:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

FUCK YA (none / 0)

though Id think you folks were idiots for making me do it!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:01:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

dems supportt dems (none / 0)

thatt dontt use waffle words like

"I intend to"

its "duplicitous"...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Stop the pearl clutching ... why doesn't someone ask Hillary this question?  He should just say, let's wait until the nomination is decided.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:45:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

somethong vague aan bullshitty like (none / 0)

"i intend to"


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

I HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIMES THAT IF JRE WINS THE NOM...I WILL SUPPORT HIM!

This is very distrubing to me and just renforces the  feeling that I have of JRE not being who he says he is!


by boxer4hrc on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:41:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Hell yes!

Does anyone here seriously think, say, that Clinton will appoint an Alito to the Supreme Court?

Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, for a change.


by Oregon Bear on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:11:42 PM EST

ANOTHER NON DEM SAYING VOTE FOR JE! (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Not good.  Edwards is my pick but if he doesn't relent on this topic then I hate to say it but I can't support him anymore.


by lorax on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:11:55 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

come on. Thats BS. We both know what was implied by his comment. Sometimes silence speaks louder than words.

There are many ways he could have said it. Had he said the four simple words "I am a democrat" that would have been enough. Barack Obama, to his credit, gave a great answer. It shows that hes in it to win it but isn't a sore loser.

Look the presidential race is the big enchilada in US politics. Its the "whole' f'n show" We can't let our ego and petty squabbles get in the way of the future of the country and the party. I might dislike a lot of Edwards supporters but I would vote for John Edwards in a heartbeat if he were the nominee. I would even go work for his campaign.

People who refuse to support the nominee, either by voting 3rd party or not voting, are just aiding a republican victory


by world dictator on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:32:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This guy thinks a staff problem is worse (none / 0)

than a guy who CANT EVEN SAY THAT HE'LL BE WITH US IN NOVEMBER!

Yeah -  he's a straight talker -  right....

If he cant be trusted on this, why should he be trusted at all?


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:45:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

No, I think more Iowans are bothered by this attitude and the overall negativity we have seen for two months now.  This is very much part of today's news cycle, and it makes Edwards look small.


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:46:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not willing to run that far on 1 little answer (none / 0)

However, I DO want some clarification.  It's very disturbing to me to hear a major Democratic candidate intimate he might not support the nominee in the general.  I'm giving Edwards the benefit of the doubt for the moment, but it won't last forever if he doesn't come forward with a good explanation/clarification.


by Trickster on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nom (none / 0)

"I fully expect to support the Democratic nominee, and I fully expect to be the Democratic nominee."

from the diarist himself- but now that the diarist has a vested stake in outrage over a nominee wanting to win- note what he says?


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:58:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"I fully expect to ... (none / 0)

is a bull shit on non-committal committal...

Just the kind of crap you accuse Hillary of and say she should be rejected for.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:06:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "I fully expect to ... (none / 0)

yes because in the primary he should be fully commited to clinton. i see your point now. all hail great clinton, all wise and powerful one.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:16:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

go kiss your pix of johnnie (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:39:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

I don't want a nominee who doesn't want to discuss his eventual support for the Democratic ticket.  It's a no-brainer.  I'm hoping that he didn't understand the question and will clarify soon.


by lorax on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:39:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

sorry but thats just funny. how dare he not support his opponent right now- he is evil just evil.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:17:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

The question is not whether he would be happy if Clinton won- it was whether he would support Sen. Clinton if she won. This is not a small distinction. His equivocation is disturbing. Add this to the list of reasons why Edwards is not my choice of candidates (in fact, he's not my second choice or my third.)


by arkansasdemocrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:42:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

The question is not whether he would be happy if Clinton won- it was whether he would support Sen. Clinton if she won. This is not a small distinction. His equivocation is disturbing. Add this to the list of reasons why Edwards is not my choice of candidates (in fact, he's not my second choice or my third.)


by arkansasdemocrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Yes, but she sure isn't my first (or second, or third) choice


by ocoocher on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:12:54 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

does it really matter whether he and his family will support Hillary or not?

This is just comical...


by prisonbreak on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:13:09 PM EST

Are you kidding? (none / 0)

Can you imagine the hay the Republicans would make if a major candidate didn't support the nominee?  I hate to say it, but your post is either disingenuous or naive.


by Trickster on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:45:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Edwards better clear this up fast. I like him a lot, but there's no excuse for being wishy-washy on whether to support your party's nominee for President.


by Christopher Lib on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:14:00 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

I'll vote against the Repub.


by Bush Bites on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:15:43 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (1.66 / 3)

john edwards is not just an awful candidate, he epitomizes what is wrong with American (and Dem) politics.

-a phony: his positions shift with the political winds
-a poseur: this 2 Americas stuff while he lives in Hearst Castle
-a lightweight: no real governing experience, he survives by floating in the political currents and latching on to whatever red meat serves his purposes..
-easy meat for the GOP: just like Cheney waxed him in the 2004 debate, his flip flops, obvious posing, and lack of substance will lead to him getting ripped apart in a GE.

fortunately, his core of support is diminishing as people become familiar with him -- his hardcore are the types who voted Nader and brought us George W.. To most it's obvious that this year's angry populist was the centrist last time around, that the guy who rages against lobbyists is a creation of trial lawyers who doesn't have a principled bone in his body.

clinton, obama, dodd, biden, richardson....all solid candidates, and there are others. if edwards won't support the Dem candidate in the GE, he should just join the Greens now.


by CalDem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:15:54 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Why don't you make your comments fit the diary?


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (1.00 / 0)

fits it precisely. Edwards is a narcissist who is playing to the fawning of the Green/Nader constituency. this confirms it. He and his followers shouldn't try to fool themselves that they represent Democrats -- they represent an annoying, narcissistic fringe of well-heeled holier than thou yuppies.

yes he should support the nominee. and, faced with a political firestorm, i'm sure he'll announce very soon he will support him or her. but that reversal -- his latest of many -- won't negate that the guy is a narcissist just like Nader.


by CalDem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:55:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Sounds a lot like you're saying you won't support Edwards if he's the nominee.  Perhaps you'd like to clarify that point.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

naw, i'd support him, certainly going to be better than the republican.

and isn't it that simple?

i believe it is, which is why it's so problematic that a percentage of the voters here, following Edwards, indicate that somehow if their guy doesn't win voting for Hillary would be problematic. From a Green/Naderite perspective, sure, they don't agree with Dem principles.  but not from a Dem perspective: the policy differences simply aren't great. that's why i really think quasi-Greens shouldn't purport to represent Democratic values, and why it's a shame that so many Naderites seem to post on Democratic boards. Entitled to their opinions, of course, but not entitled to speak for Dems.

of course, it's an academic question since Edwards doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning.  


by CalDem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:09:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

you had me until your Republican-esque disparaging of "trial lawyers."


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Grammar Nazi here:   (and the answer is yes, I'd support Hillary, but since I already am that's kind of empty).

Hard to tell what was intended from the last paragraph but "reticence" is related to "silence," not "reluctance."    Someone who is reluctant may be reticent but then again they may not.   Any sense of "reluctance" should be associated with "to speak," not more generally.


by InigoMontoya on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:16:20 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

While I would never advocate using "reticent" in place of "reluctant" as in "I am reticent to vote for Hillary," the 2nd definition of "reticence" below does appear to fit my usage:

ret·i·cence(rět'ĭ-s& #601;ns) n.  

1. The state or quality of being reticent; reserve.
2. The state or quality of being reluctant; unwillingness.


by Todd Beeton on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:25:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Creeping sloppiness, Todd.   "reluctance" is the third definition in my dictionary but there's also the issue of denotation vs. connotation, which is where there's a difference between "reluctance" in a general sense vs. "reluctance to speak."

Carry on, I enjoy your posts.  Please understand that I have enough respect for on-line journalism that I think it should be held to the same standards of spelling and grammar that one would expect of, say, the NYT, in its formal articles, by which I mean posts on the main page.


by InigoMontoya on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 08:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards made his biggest mistake yet (none / 0)

He isn't going to win over many mainstream primary voters by failing to say he would fail to back the Democratic nominee, whether it be Clinton or whomever.


by dpANDREWS on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:16:25 PM EST

Re: Edwards made his biggest mistake yet (2.00 / 2)

Bingo. I have to wonder how long the diarist has been in politics to not know from what derivative this question derives. It's the "if you lose" question, then what?


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its a pretty standard question (2.00 / 1)

... That is asked when races heat up.  Normally most candidates will give the speil about there being real differences blah blah blah .. but yes they will support the nominee blah blah blah ... but it doesn't really matter because they plan on being the nominee blah blah blah.

It is a stock, off the shelf answer.  Edwards couldn't give it for some reason.  That will hurt him.


by dpANDREWS on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Its a pretty standard question (2.00 / 3)

I've never known a candidate to discuss it right then and there. Most say we are still inthe primary. the only thing he added was that i will do so after the primary- which implies he is focused on now. many of you are taking extreme liberties pretedning like this meant anything other than he wanted to focus on winning the primary, i mean words like 'disgusting' etc are being bantied about by y our fellow acolytes to clinton pretending a primary nominee doesn't ordinarily say this.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:32:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

show us an example then,,, (none / 0)

you have the google...

Ive never heard a candidate EVER REFUSE TO AFFIRM THAT HE WOULD SUPPORT THE PARTY - NO MATTER WHAT!

Go ahead - find another example where this has happened...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BULLSHIT! (none / 0)

DEMOCRATS SUPPORT THEIR NOMINEE!

IF HE CANT SAY THIS - NO DEM SHOULD CONSIDER SUPPORTING HIM!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BULLSHIT! (none / 0)

You contradict yourself completely with these two sentences.  


by PDiddie on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BULLSHIT! (none / 0)

Not necessarily.  It looked to me that the first sentence addressed the GE, while the second one was aiming at support for the Democratic nomination.  At least that is how it read to me.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:37:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well, of course... (none / 0)

I hope that Biden fries him on this Thursday - Joe taught me at 16 about loyalty.

aad notice, even though Im supporting Hill, Joe  KNOWS Ill be forever loyal to him...

If only  the 25 % who polled NO above knew this word....

See why I get men - you cant win these people - just make them known as what they are -

PINO - Naderites...real dems remember what these folks did in 2000.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards made his biggest mistake yet (2.00 / 1)

Easiest answer in the world.  "Of course, I am a Democrat."   It also would have given Edwards a chance to appear somewhat human, not just "all attack", gave him a chance to be somewhat gracious.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:49:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"I fully expect to (none / 0)

is qualifying bs...a noncommittal committal

disgraceful.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 2)

What a disgrace.  Every Democrat should say "Yes." None of the top-tier Democrats are THAT different on substance.


by Russell in NY on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:17:15 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 2)

Okay. That's all I have to say to this is "okay." This is like the "would you accept being the Vice presidential nominee" question that candidates are asked. In order to reach your question, he would have to assume he has lost. So if you can't see why a candidate may not want to create doubts about his chance, well- okay.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:23:24 PM EST

IF HE WONT PLEDGE TO SUPPORT OUR PARTY (none / 0)

HE SHOULD WITHDRAW FROM OUR PRIMARIES


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: IF HE WONT PLEDGE TO SUPPORT OUR PARTY (none / 0)

You should put in your tagline: Annoying Bot.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you should put in your ass... (1.00 / 2)

my foot.

DEMOCRATS SUPPORT OUR NOMINEE.

NADERITTES ARE NOT DEMOCRATS - I DONT CARE WHO YOU WANT!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you should put in your ass... (2.00 / 1)

Right, because profanity and CAPITAL LETTERS have been proven to convince anyone of any position.

If you say it loud enough, it must be right...


Walberg Watch - Following Radical Conservative Rep. Tim Walberg in MI-07
by Fitzy on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

as you might guess...I dont give a fig (1.00 / 1)

what you believe...

naderite phony...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:13:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: as you might guess...I dont give a fig (none / 0)

is naderite like a curse word to you?

hahaahahaha.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:40:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Ridiculous.  This has NOTHING at all to do with the VP question, everything to do with party identification and standing behind the party against the GOPer, no matter what.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:51:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

riiiight. y'all just keep putting that fake outrage out there, and maybe people will get off the clinton question plant story. funny posts now that i know how to take many of you.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Will you support our Partty and vote Dem (none / 0)

even if we choose someone besides Edwards?

Even if its Clinton?

Or cant you pledge this because your not really a democrat at all?

But actually a Independent here mucking up our primaries...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:02:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Todd, let the swiftboating begin (2.00 / 1)

putting words into John Edwards mouth, which he didnt say and most certainly didnt mean is a VERY bad style.

Reminds me of the Gore wears too much earth tone, Gore the serial exaggerator, Gore is stiff, Gore is a bore...

Of course John Edwards will support HRC in the unlikely event of her becoming the nominee. Everybody currently running will do so. And everybody, but the most unexperienced political novice in this forum knows it!!! So I take all this feigned outrage as a clever try to divert attention from the real question now on voters mind, which is: Whom do we trust to become president?

Look, nobody wants to answer a hypothetical question like this which assumes, that he/she will loose. It was a gotcha question from Hillarys longtime Iraq war cheerleading, domestic spying cover up hometown newspaper.

I also remember, that many in the dem establishment were withholding exactly such an unequivocal support for Dean in 2003 when Dean was the frontrunner.


by MarcTGFG on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:30:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wants it both ways (none / 0)

He said..."I fully expect to ".....

What the f is with that?  why couldnt he say "I will?"

Explain the qualifier.  its lame and insulting tto all Dems.

We as a huge natiowide Party made up of millions of voters select our nominee and we have the right to Demand that anyone who runs for office in our system -  supports our Party's choice!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wants it both ways (none / 0)

Holden now that you have resorted to using the royal "we" I have to tell you something.

You are not god.

Neither are you the chairman of the DNC.

You are also not the official arbiter of the democratic presidential primary process.

In short: You dont speak for the democratic party!

Nobody has to explain something to you.

John Edwards can use the words he chooses. Personally I think he showed the right instinct, Kucinich style. He doesnt fall into the traps of the corporate media, by answering gotcha questions that are

1. hypothetical

2. will make him look bad

3. imply that he will loose

This is not the time for any candidate to "endorse" another candidate.

I know that Hillary thinks that she has already sewn up the primary and has already changed to gerneral election mode. What a pity that millions of voters still want to cast their votes.

Of course: Resistence is futile.

So we should all assimilate and become Hillary fans.

Not me, not now, and certainly not because of this pseudo scandal.


by MarcTGFG on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 09:02:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

pseudo scandal. (none / 0)

like ann aide and a question, tips, gender card, boys, driver licence ettc...

yeah...youll see...real dems are gonna fry that guy thurs night.

dumbest and worst thing hes done since the hair doos.

and yes, I do speak for all real democrats in my party.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 10:30:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

An EDWARDS SUPPORTER talking about "fake outrage" on this site, after the daily barrage of fake outrage we have seen over the last 4 weeks or so?   Oh, the irony.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:54:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

I grow more and more disgusted with John Edwards every day.  


by AUD on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:25:57 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Todd, so you have never heard these sorts of questions before, and you see it as a fumble to say I wont talk about this until after I've actually lost rather than assuming that I have?


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:27:29 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 3)

Edwards will clear this up in the debate.  This guarantees he will be asked the question and given airtime to answer.  At this point, any suspect move Edwards (or Trippi) makes is all about airtime and trying to address the imbalance between his ad budget and Barack and Clinton's.  This isn't a serious issue.


by Piuma on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:30:18 PM EST

He had bettter... (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he had a chance to tofay - and said (none / 0)

"I intend to...."

quack=quack=


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:25:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This hurts him (none / 0)

This is serious. It hurts him. Equivocating, leaving any doubt, really makes the election about him and not about the party or the country. It plays into the meme that he's a narcissist. So either he's politically inept or so self absorbed he can't understand the mistake. I have been an Edwards supporter but he's lost me. And I'm not the only one. He can't afford that at this stage.


by cmpnwtr on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:40:16 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (1.00 / 2)

Not to speak for Sen. Edwards, who is great at speaking for himself and will in his own time, but to speak for myself and others with whom I have spoken here in Iowa, I will not vote for Senator Clinton if she is the nominee.  That does NOT mean I will vote for the Republican nominee.  In fact it says nothing of what I will do with my vote.  Only what I will not do.

Iowa Democrat (not an Iowa Lemming)


by CarolynLFS on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:41:29 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Thank you. Sometimes it seems this attitude is WHY the blogosphere has made it so easy for Clinton to win.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:50:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

tthem you are not a democrat (none / 0)

you are a dem leaning  independent.

members of a Party support their CHOSEN  nominee...its part of the choice of being in a Party.

You independents can do as you wish...

It has Nothing to do with being a lemming....

nice and cute dodge that it is...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:55:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

my guess is that you are not a democrat or that you will come to your senses later.  Or maybe you think threats will work, they won't you know.

But if you really mean it, of course your non Clinton vote will be a vote for the republican.  That is the reality of our winner take all electoral system.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

How about I hold my vote till I get clarification from Edwards about his support for Hillary Clinton if she is the nominee.

I have every intention of voting for the nominee even if it is Edwards ( as much as I can't stand his politics ) but i'll just wait for some clarification from him because I don't want to jump the gun.

I'll vote for anyone who wins except if we nominate Gravel or Kucinich . The new Edwards is already pushing my ideological limits , I don't think I can stretch it as far as Kucinich or Gravel ( the man isn't even a democrat,sounds like a left leaning libertarian to me)

Thankfully we are not about to nominate either lol


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:42:12 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

I would be proud to vote for Dennis Kucinich if he miraculously won.  Anyone who stands up and supports impeachment and the restoration of the constitution should get all our support.  It is disgraceful he is the only candidate to do so.


by Piuma on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ii will vote for any Dem chosen as our nominee (none / 0)

by the millions of demss nationwide in our Party...

Even this clown..

Thats how it works.

If not, why even have primaries.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Well, then, according to Holden, you aren't a Democrat. why would you not support Kucinich?  he's a little out there, but he's a good person, and a good progressive.


by santamonicadem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:12:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

" he's a little out there "

- he is too far out there for me , I am barely hanging on to Edwards as it is , i don't think i can go as far as kucinich or Gravel.

I will always vote for a democrat as long as we don't have candidates like kucinich and gravel as our presidential nomineee , the day that happens is the day the democratic party has decided it has gone nuts.

Mark Warner would be my ideal candidate in terms of ideology , just to give you an idea of where I am on the ideological spectrum , so forgive me if I don't get excited to vote for a Kucinich or Gravel.

Luckily the dems won't go down that road.

Didn't Kucinich say he saw a UFO or aliens , can't remember .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:27:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (1.00 / 1)

It's so easy to disparage people, and Lori, you're one of the best.  UFO stands for 'unidentified flying object" which according to many in the military as well as citizens of Utah (area 57) and NM, exist.  Why?  The U.S. government/military has been trying to develop aerial defense systems, that's why.  Remember the stealth bomber.  He never said he saw aliens, but go ahead and disparage him, you DINO.


by santamonicadem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

He never said he saw aliens, but go ahead and disparage him, you DINO.

- Thats why I posed it as a question , I couldn't remember which it was .

What the hell is a DINO anyway lol


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:16:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

must be why they call it LA LA Land? (none / 0)

just kidding..I has no idea what the hecks goin' on up there...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:34:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

she would if he were chosen...which he wont be (none / 0)

youre just playing absurdum reductio games...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

you sound republican?


McCain is defining Obama, and Obama is neither defining himself, nor McCain. This is awful.
by jgarcia on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Lori that is not good enough.  You can't really hold Edwards or his supporters to blame if you can not vote for the eventual nominee.  DK is a good democrat despite what your right wing family has pounded in to your brain.  Most americans agree with him much more than they do with your hero McCain.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:47:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

" You can't really hold Edwards or his supporters to blame if you can not vote for the eventual nominee."

-  I am not blaming anyone for whatever choice they make , everyone here has a personal decision to make on who they vote for and I don't particularly have power of anyone's personal decision.

" DK is a good democrat "

- I have never said he wasn't a good democrat unless you are intent on putting words in my mouth.

" what your right wing family has pounded in to your brain "

- I don't think we have ever met , so I am a little surprised you would know if my family is " right wing " as you put it or when you ever witnessed the supposed pounding i receive from them. Its not nice to talk about other people's families especially if you have no idea who they are . It doesn't reflect well on you.

" Most americans agree with him much more than they do with your hero McCain."

- That would be John Mccain's problem , not mine . You might want to direct your statements to him.

I have said it I would vote for any democratic nominee we put up outside of Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel ( there is no way they are going to be the nominee , so this was clearly a sarcastic remark , so maybe it would have made you happy if I didn't mention it and I am sure their will be millions of democrats who would think the party has gone nuts if we nominate Kucinich and Gravel ). I am not saying they are not good democrats , I just cannot get excited about their candidacy based on ideological reasons thats all.

Yes I like John Mccain , it doesn't mean I'll vote for him. The fact that he is a republican doesn't mean I can't express admiration for him , just like some on this blog have said they like Huckabee , it doesn't mean he will get their vote .

Once again i will vote for Edwards , Clinton , Obama , dodd , biden , richardson if anyone of them is the nominee .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

to bring dennis into this is bs (none / 0)

hes tellin his own supporters to caucus with Edwards by god - he's out-

except again, for a absurdum reductto attack on lori.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:38:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

As an Edwards supporter, I have to agree that I'm disappointed in his answer.  He could have answered like Obama and said "Yes, I will.  Why wouldn't I vote for myself".  It deflects the attention away from the other candidates back to him in a humorous manner.

On the other hand, I have first hand knowledge of why someone might not support Clinton in the GE, my wife.  I will preface this comment by saying that my wife is not involved in politics to the extent that I am, but she is a very informed voter.  She has on numerous occasions said to her family and friends that if Clinton is the nominee she will not vote for her.  I have tried to convince her to reconsider, but she refuses.  She said she is sick of voting for someone just because they are the lesser of two evils.  She feels she needs to vote her conscious/convictions.

I bring this up because it's possible that Edwards has gotten to the point that my wife has, that their convictions will not be compromised by voting for someone they don't believe in.

Do I think that's wrong?  Politically, probably yes, but try telling your spouse that.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:59:22 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 2)

Edwards will support clinton if she is the nominee. This is about keeping the energy going during the primary. If pushed to answer this again, he probablly will give a clear answer rather than the muddled one he gave above. That choice hasn't been considered- a mistatement of what he was trying to say- but then of course it can't be because it gets in the way of the daily outrage meter


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

The other problem, politically, is that his statement has given the Clinton supporters an avenue to divert attention away from the bad press she's been getting lately (question planting, debate debacle, etc.) and focus negatively on him.


A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy. - Teddy Roosevelt
by minvis on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:05:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Oh i agree. It was poorly executed and provides an excelelnt "look over there!. Just chuckling at all the fake outrage.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:19:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

did you get that info from the JE fanboy autocall? (none / 0)

ITt was the frigging NYTimes!

HE WOULDNT ANSWER!

EDWARDS MUST PLEDGE TO SUPPORT OUR PARTY AND ITS NOMINEE WITH NO HESITATION!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:06:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

The funniest thing I have read over the last 2 weeks on this site is AN EDWARDS SUPPORTER talking about a daily outrage meter.   Absolutely hilarious.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

yes because flubbing a question is the same as planting them.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:46:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

by the way at least mine can answer real questions rather than feeling the need to answer questions that her campaign plants for her in the audience, but hey, silly me thought this was a democracy and mistakes will happen versus a staged pep rally where of course none do.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:50:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

How about that question about Fortress that an unsuspecting NPR reporter asked Edwards and instantly was called out for "attack politics" by a thin-skinned Edwards (he apparently expected to be asked quetion- balls about Clinton he just had to hit at with a bat.)   I don't recall him ever answering the question (which was soft to begin with) as he just buried it in outraged "this is attack politics" bluster.  So, Fortress is off-limits now, too?    


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

you can post 20 times, and i am going to come back to clinton's staged questions but please continue with the fake outrage. i am happy to play.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Then address the Fortress skin-thinedness Edwards showed towards the NPR reporter.  Is anything asked about Fortress really "attack politics" as Edwards claimed?  How come he can't address Fortress in the least?   For once I would like an Edwards supporter to address this rather than deal in platitudes or "us vs. them" ad hominems.  


by georgep on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

clinton plants questions.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:21:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Hahahaha bruh21. Give it to him.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

yeah its hard not to make fun of him and the obvious attempt to distract


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:10:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards (none / 0)

yeah its hard not to make fun of him and the obvious attempt to distract


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:11:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

your wife is not running for President.  She is not  asking other people to vote for her and withholding her support back.
Besides she will come to her senses most likely when primary crazy season is over and she sees the alternative.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:49:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

No. I think there are a lot of people in this country like his wife.

Especially after the focus was made on the 04 elections with Kerry being the lesser of two evils, many people aren't happy with having to make that choice again.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:56:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes I see from your other comments (none / 0)

where you are coming from.  You voted for Nader in 2000 didn't you?  Now tell me again please how Bush and Gore were the same.  I particularly like the parts about the duopoly, the two headed monster and the two sides of the same coin.
I am feeling nostalgia, maybe we can hear how Gore was not good enough on the environment.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:07:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

convictions?.................puleeze... (none / 0)

He said..."I fully expect to ".....

What the f is with that?  why couldnt he say "I will?"

Explain the qualifier.  its lame and insulting tto all Dems.

We as a huge natiowide Party made up of millions of voters select our nominee and we have the right to Demand that anyone who runs for office in our system -  supports our Party's choice!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:40:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Who cares at this point?  The first vote hasn't even been cast and already people have to know if Edwards will pledge to support Hillary.

Aren't there better ways to spend valuable time before the Iowa caucus?  Sheesh.


by KimPossible on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:08:35 PM EST

Totally respect Edwards on this (2.00 / 1)

Edwards gets nothing for being willing NOW to support Hillary the nominee other than people saying that he lacks the will to deliver the fatal blow to her.  He can ALWAYS say he will support her later.  Besides, how is he to know she won't select Lieberman as her running mate or some hideous crap like that.

The correct response to "will you support Hillary, etc." is: "If Hillary says TODAY she will support me if I win, she makes a mistake.  If she made that mistake, I won't echo that mistake because that would show a losing mentality on her part or any candidate's part, for her to concede to me so early.  Among the most important trait in a candidate is the will to win.  You don't prepare for victory by preparing for defeat.  I certainly intend to prevail, to finish making the case to the tough but truly fair crowd of American Democratic voter.  AFTER I win, I would be extremely grateful for her support despite our substantial policy differences."

That's how a smart, black-belt candidate not advised by f***ing recividist losers like Bob Shrum would do it.


by Crablaw on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:22:45 PM EST

Re: Totally respect Edwards on this (none / 0)

dumbest answer ever.  It is a standard question.  It is an easy answer.  The answer is yes and it doesn't matter who the VP is unless you happen to be a Naderite.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Totally respect Edwards on this (none / 0)

I have noticed that you have personally accused some of your interlocutors in this general thread of being Naderites, but cannot tell whether the "you" in "you happen to be a Naderite" is the personal you aimed at me, or the generic "one is a Naderite."

Parties hold Unity Breakfasts in local races usually the day after the primaries, not 4 months before.  Edwards loses nothing by giving his "yes I will support the nominee" later rather than when his opponent's media people have dictated the question; until then, answering the question feed his opponent's talking points, not his.  His goal should be to defeat his opponent, period, not giving self-destructive answers to asinine, irrelevant set-up questions.


by Crablaw on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:46:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes or No Mr. Edwards (none / 0)

Um, no.  It doesn't show a "losing mentality", it shows that you put your party above your own ambitions.  Biden and Obama answered the question with dignity and I doubt anyone thinks less of them for it.  Obama even turned the questions to his advantage, while Biden used to take a swipe at Rudy.  Two classic examples of how to answer an easy question.

Your answer is complete BS.  It isn't about what Edwards gets for answering the question.  It's about party loyalty, and that counts for something.

And whatever happened to answering each question with a yes or no?  Any doubletalk here?


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hes an ass on this (none / 0)

He said..."I fully expect to ".....

What the f is with that?  why couldnt he say "I will?"

Explain the qualifier.  its lame and insulting tto all Dems.

We as a huge natiowide Party made up of millions of voters select our nominee and we have the right to Demand that anyone who runs for office in our system -  supports our Party's choice!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:42:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Good, post, Crablaw.  If she were to appoint Lieberman as her running mate, Dems would go apeshit at the convention and take the nomination from her.  And, if some reason (GF) that did not happen, I will tell you right now, I would support NADER or anyone else who might challenge her.  


by santamonicadem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:32:58 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

well there you go.  I thought as much


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

my god... (none / 0)

you really are in la-la land....

yikes...


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:44:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Look.

I voted No.

I don't believe the line one bit that the democrats aren't THAT different on substance. And if Clinton wins the nomination, I will openly admit that YES, her policies and the vision she has for the country so offend me that I cannot support her.  

She's establishment to the core, beholden to lobbyists and proud of it, and the a return to the Clinton years of the 90s isn't the improvement the nation needs. I don't believe she will bring in change. Everything I've seen from her says exactly that.

Now I can be a democrat and not support clinton. I can support other people in my party running fro congress or Senate, but there is NOTHING that says that as a registered democrat I have to support Clinton.

How is your opinion, thee who blindly say I'll support any democrat and are stuck in 2004 land when we would accept ANYTHING BUT BUSH, any more pure than mine?

At least I'm ideologically consistent.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:41:17 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

My concern is those who are stuck in 2000 land and still believe there are no adverse consequences from standing aside and letting a Republican win.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

You're not letting a republican win if you don't go out there and become an activist for the nominee.

That's patently ridiculous.

And when did the nomination become a coronation? Doesn't the nominee still have to win my vote in the General election? Gee, I thought we were in a democracy.

look, if the people in this country vote in any of the republican field, then they get what they deserve.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:58:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

And when did the nomination become a coronation? Doesn't the nominee still have to win my vote in the General election? Gee, I thought we were in a democracy.

NaderforPresident2000/2.0


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

There's no guarantee of the 2000 election happening again.

WHERE is a third party candidate ANYWHERE?

And if you're so confident about Clinton, why can't she pull her fair share of the vote against the weak republican field?


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

You have every right to wash your hands of the result if you like, but it's just plain silly to pretend that the Republican agenda does not represent anything more pernicious than what Hillary Clinton would bring.

How many more Republican appointees do you want to see on the Supreme Court before you'll admit that there is a major difference between the parties, even if the Democrats happen to nominate someone from the moderate wing?

I can't believe that only eight short years later people are falling right back into the same old trap of saying there's no difference between Gore and Bush.  How could any rational person have failed to learn that lesson?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:03:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

I don't have to justify again my belief to you that Clinton is a nominee who is patently unsuitable to my own ideological beliefs. See above if you want to see that again.

And I'm not going on defense on this one.

Like I said before, my not giving some loyalty oath to Clinton does not mean a republican will win. The republicans have their own problems and if Clinton can't command the election without the support of all her fellow democrats given the political atmosphere, then us non-clinton supporters were right and she was a shitty candidate.

I'm not going to work against her (that goes without saying), but I don't  have to support her.

If the nation elects a republican, they get te Supreme Court nominees that they wanted. I do believe Clintons SCOTUS nominees would be far less repugnant.

Bringing up the SCOTUS question is really just a scare tactic.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:15:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

This is exactly the same rhetoric I saw from Nader supporters in 2000.  "If Gore can't win without my support, then he doesn't deserve to win."

You can do whatever you like with your vote, but I am so, so disappointed that people refuse to learn the lessons of history.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

You can't use the Nader argument here.

There is no third party candidate running. Jesus christ, isn't that at least obvious to you?

Or are you so scared that if we all don't line up like lemmings around Clinton that the republicans are going to win the election that you will just forgo everything you believe in just to not let a fear that haus haunted you since 2000 [which you mgiht need to seek help for] win?


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

You'll have to explain to me the difference between voting for Nader in a 3-way race and sitting out a 2-way race.  Sure seems like the exact same result to me.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

What?

he republicans have their own problems and if Clinton can't command the election without the support of all her fellow democrats given the political atmosphere, then us non-clinton supporters were right and she was a shitty candidate.

What? How does any Dem win without the support of Democrats.  That makes no sense at all. But by all means, if Clinton wins the nomination, take your marbles and go home if you like.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:24:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

She can win over independents. She can win over republicans. Just because you're a registered democrart doesn't mean you have to vote for one in the GE.

My point is [since you obviously can't read] is that  if she needs 100% of dems to win in this political climate then she obviously wasn't the candidate for us.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:43:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Then who are YOU going to vote for genius???


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Most likely no one.

If it's Hillary that is.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

That doesn't make any sense at all.  If every democrat didn't "become an activist for the nominee" then of course you're letting a republican win.  I am SO tired of precious people who pitch a fit and refuse to do what's best for the community because their dear little toes have been stepped on.  You're like the kid who kicks the monopoly board and ruins the game for everyone just because you didn't get the card you wanted.  

Grow up.  The presidential election isn't about YOU.  it's about what's best for our country.  ("best">> as in the better of two choices)


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

And if I believe that a Clinton nomination isn't best for the country? My toes aren't stepped on, I'm just sticking to my political beliefs. When did  compromise become the Modus operandi of the blogosphere?

What are you going to do, point a gun at me and make me vote? It's not about selfishness, it about the fact that I'm GRANTED the right to vote, and it's my PERSONAL vote.

And I don't care what the fuck some nomination party in DC says, that doesn't mean I have to vote for someone.

Like I said upthread...Clinton, with the state of the party now, is going to piss of a whole segment of the Dem party, just like an Edwards or Obama candidacy would.

It's up to the nominee to win me over.

And PS--If I'm the kid with the monopoly board [I don't agree[ then you're one of the people in the Wendy's commerical, blindly running into the gaping hole in the ground.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

don't own a tv, so don't get the wendy's bit, but did you notice how all your arguments revolve around yourself?  Isn't our primary duty to our country and our fellow citizens when we step into the voting booth??  

We live in a two-party system (at least at the national level).  I'm arguing that everyone should blindly vote for whatever candidate dems put on the ballot.  However, can you honestly tell me that the country would be better off with one of the current republicans running the show.  In this system, not voting for the democrat is the same as voting for a republican.  You can whine about it (and i admit that there are many allures to a multi-party system), but that won't change it.


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

correction:  I'm not arguing that everyone should blindly vote...


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

If you are a democrat you will get over it and get a clearer picture of Clinton.  If not, I am sorry, you may still be registered democrat, but you left for Naderland a long time ago.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:57:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

You assume that those of us who are patently against clinton aren't knowledgeable on her.

It's not petty little political differences that make it too hard for many of us to support her.

It's precisely because we can read the tarot cards and see where a Clinton presidency will go.

That is why we can't support her.

We aren't going to wise up, grandma. And for full disclosure, I have never and will never support Nader.  


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

a consistentt and selfish naderitte fool! (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't support her as the nominee (none / 0)

She is toxic to down-ballot Democrats throughout the South and particularly here in Texas, where we are crawling out from under a generation of red-ass Republican rule.

She sets Texas Democrats back another generation, and we just can't take that.

I don't know who I will vote for if she is the nominee but it certainly won't be the Republican (that should go w/o saying but since the accusations are flying ...)


by PDiddie on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:42:05 PM EST

Re: I can't support her as the nominee (none / 0)

what you just said makes no sense.  Once she is the nominee her effect (imaginary as your claim is) on down ticket races is going to happen whether you vote for her or not.
Any vote you cast that is not for her will be for the republican....winner take all is the reality and that makes ours a two party system.

ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.

by MollieBradford on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 02:59:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't support her as the nominee (none / 0)

Gore supporter, still?

Whose in imaginary land?


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't support her as the nominee (2.00 / 2)

Honey, i can promise you that downticket effect isn't imaginary, but you're right about the fact that by the time we're voting in the general, it's too late to be worrying about it.


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can't support her as the nominee (none / 0)

The media is pushing Hillary?  I must have missed that somewhere amongst the thousands of stories about how inauthentic and calculation she is, or about how she doesn't tip.

And while I think Edwards would have been a stronger candidate than Kerry in 2004, I think it's quite silly for anyone to believe they know how a general election would have turned out when the actual campaign never happened.  Would the Republicans have been as effective in demonizing Edwards as they were with Kerry?  I have no idea, but neither does anybody else!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:44:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TTHEN YOUR NOT A DEM ., YOUR A (none / 0)

INDEPENDENT


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:48:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards is really getting on my nerves (none / 0)

I like Edwards, or at least I did, but he's bugging me a lot lately.  I worried that his decision to accept public funding meant that he was more concerned with himself winning the primaries than a democrat winning the White House.  And now this.

If he wins the nomination, I'll support him 100%, but I'm hoping more and more that he doesn't.


by SuperDrew on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:03:07 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

oh, that would have gone over well.  give me a break.  this isn't a fricking softball game.  Even if your candidate loses in the primary, you still have a duty to work for the party in the general election.  ESPECIALLY if you represent a block of voters who supported you.  sitting in the corner and crying about it doesn't do anyone any good....except the republicans.


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:21:59 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (2.00 / 1)

Yes fellow comrade. I will support my party after I get done praising big brother and saying my many thanks tot he Soviet Union.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:27:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Please, spare us the sanctimony.

If you can't see the difference between pledging to support the Democratic party and pledging to support the Soviet Union, you should at very least keep that embarrassing feat of ignorance to yourself.


by SuperDrew on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

Garry Kasparov made just such a comparison during his recent appearance on the Colbert Report.

"In America, your third-party candidates have problems getting on the ballot.  In Russia, the second-party candidates have the same problem."


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:33:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

It's called Sarcasm. And I thoink sarcasm is necessary when you have people telling others that its their DUTY, THEIR DUTY mind you, THEIR GODFORSAKEN DUTY to support whoever the nominee is.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:59:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

It's a stupid question. If someone was hectoring John Kerry at this time in '03 if was planning to support Howard Dean, what do you think he was going to say? "Yes I plan to support the presumptive frontrunner".

Do you really think Edwards is going to support some third-party candidate if he dosen't get the nomination? Or is it more like he didn't want to create a soundbite about how supportive of Clinton he is before the first primary vote even happens?  

Why don't you find out if Clinton plans to support Obama or Edwards if they get nominated-see what she says.


by alexmhogan on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:44:22 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

She should be asked.  And if she gives the same kind of pathetic answer John Edwards gave, then she too deserves to be raked over the coals.

But in the mean time, Edwards deserves every bit of grief that he gets.


by SuperDrew on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:59:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

agreed (none / 0)

but I dont think shes trolling for votes from Naderittes


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:05:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes and he did say this (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:50:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

With your updatae you go from the silly to the plain well sillier

""I fully expect to support the Democratic nominee, and I fully expect to be the Democratic nominee."

Your argumetn seems to be that because he is saying he wants to be the nominee, how dare he? How dare he want to be the nominee? Gosh- whatever, this was funny.


by bruh21 on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:50:38 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

He said..."I fully expect to ".....

What the f is with that?  why couldnt he say "I will?"

Explain the qualifier.  its lame and insulting tto all Dems.

We as a huge natiowide Party made up of millions of voters select our nominee and we have the right to Demand that anyone who runs for office in our system -  supports our Party's choice!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:06:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

"Is Larry Craig advising him now or what?"
Todd, normally I really value your opinion but please come home from Parse-istan. Have you examined  how all the other candidates condescendingly stupid questions?
Speak out for the education our children deserve!
by jeffbinnc on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:52:14 PM EST

Rephrase (sorry) (none / 0)

Have you examined how all the other candidates respond to condescendingly stupid questions?


Speak out for the education our children deserve!
by jeffbinnc on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 03:53:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

I'm darn tired of the old anti-Nader shouts when someone points out how the Democrats don't provide a reason to support most of them.  Pelosi, Hoyer, Reid, Hillary, Kerry, et al. have aided and abetted in the crimes of Bush, Cheney et al.  I, for one, cannot support them in this.  I'd feet a lot better about Edwards if he stated the simple truth that Hillary places herself about the common good.  In the face of massive crimes committed by Bush et al., the Democrats have done nothing.  Vote for Hillary?  In the face of her equivocating and worse.  No way, my Democratic friends.


by downtown democrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:16:49 PM EST

start calling yourself (none / 0)

downtown independent then

NADERITE!

You dont deserve the honor of the word.


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:09:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: start calling yourself (none / 0)

I'm sorry, Holden, but your comment is sufficiently poorly written that I'm unable to follow it.  I don't deserve the honor of which word? NADERITE?  Downtown?  Surely I don't deserve the word NADERITE, as I'm not sure what it is.  Is this someone who voted for Ralph Nader?  Is this someone who somehow subscribes to some particular way of thinking?  Or is this just name calling and being dismissive without making the effort of a real rejoinder?  As to being accused of not deserving the word 'downtown," now you're being silly.  I live downtown, and have for many years.  In fact, I split my time between two cities and I live downtown in both.  Oh, I don't deserve the word "democrat"?  who are you to say this?  I've advocated democracy (of a participatory sort) for over 40 years, and, I'm shamed to admit, voted for plenty of Democrats for decades.  Not this next election, though, based on what the co-conspirators have been up to under Pelosi's and Reid's leadership.  So long, suckers.


by downtown democrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

whatever... (none / 0)


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

He said..."I fully expect to ".....

What the f is with that?  why couldnt he say "I will?"

Explain the qualifier.  its lame and insulting tto all Dems.

We as a huge natiowide Party made up of millions of voters select our nominee and we have the right to Demand that anyone who runs for office in our system -  supports our Party's choice!


"I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell." Democrat Party "Hack" and President Harry S Truman
by holden caulfield on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 04:49:30 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

anyone who vowed to support Hillary wouldn't have my support.  she clearly is part of the problem.  not sufficient that she's not bush not cheney.  she still voted for the wars and she still speaks the old tired pro-business pro-corporate capitalistic war mongering nonsense.  we've got to do better.  support her? not if you want my support.


by downtown democrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:24:57 PM EST

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

blahblahblah...unfortunately the rest of us can't vote in your dreamworld.  we have to decide between (one) democrat and (one) republican come general election time.  


by bluedavid on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 05:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

You don't have to.

See, that's where you are freaking confused.


by apolitik on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 06:00:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

ah....precisely. the nader argument. nothing clearer than that statement confirming that edwards is nader redux. nothing wrong with that, but you all should be more honest about it. edwards is nader redux and the argument that Clinton is no better than a republican is an encore of the Gore=Bush argument from the bad old days. tragic.

bottom line is you Greens should vote in your own primary, not try to distort the Dem primary. not that Edwards is having much of an impact...down to 9% in NH? geez....


by CalDem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 06:54:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

very funny, including me among "you Greens."  Never met any, that I know of.  Haven't sent them money, haven't given them my time.  Better than the overt enablers of crime, but still ineffectively buying into the system.  And you've used me to smear Edwards, too.  I've never thought about supporting the man, except in the rhetorical moment when I says something that makes sense, like hesitating to vote for Hillary.  Gads, man.  Wake up.  You've got me confused with your habitual enemies--the Greens, the Edwards supporters.  All I know is quite simple:  The Bush and Cheney folk have led our country into crimes of a massive and historical proportion and the good ol Democrats in the House and Senate have gone along with it and enabled it.  Your party and its stalwarts have abandoned their responsibilities for nothing more than some thin notion that this will help them gain office later.  Shame on them, and shame on you for supporting them.  As to the NADERITES and the Greens: they are marginally better than you, but haven't a prayer of stopping the crimes against humanity that are beyond the pale now.  But the Democrats: co-conspirators with their votes in the Congress.


by downtown democrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

you say 'your party' and yet your handle is 'downtown democrat.' i don't really care what your party is, but given that you're not a democrat I'm not sure why you pose as one or why you seem to think you should have a say in electing OUR nominee.


by CalDem on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 09:43:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

I'm not confused, freakin or otherwise.  I know a false option when I see it.  If you think those who have been voting to fund the war, to confirm Bush's appointments, and the like, are going to stop being co-conspirators if they gain the white house, well, then you're confused.  The criminals vs their enablers, that's all we've got, and you think I'm confused because I don't share your enthusiasm for the enablers.  you, sir, are in the dream world.


by downtown democrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards Won't Pledge To Support Hillary? (none / 0)

tweedle dee vs tweedle dum.  you are buying into a false choice.  criminal vs. co-conspirator.  politics of enabling the criminals to loot and kill.  go for it, my friend, but count me out.


by downtown democrat on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:11:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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