Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech

Bumped -- Jonathan

I've finally caught up on my J-J speech viewing and have to agree with David Yepsen that Obama clearly had the best speech last night. What I liked most about it was that Obama finally seemed to find the right balance between being a unity candidate, someone who can bring both parties together, and throwing anti-Republican red meat to the base while at the same time actually expressing pride in being a Democrat. Last night, Obama may have given his very first Democratic primary speech of the campaign. About time, Senator (you can view the speech in its entirety HERE.)

Now, considering the dinner was a Democratic Party event, I suspected the speeches would largely be a Democratic lovefest, saving the harshest critiques for Republicans. While Obama clearly did this, he surprised me by using his speech to also go directly after Hillary Clinton in ways that were both subtle and obvious.

This section was particularly pointed.

The same old Washington textbook campaigns just won't do. Not answering questions because we're afraid people won't like the answer just won't do....Tri-angulating or poll driven positions because we're worried about what Mitt or Rudy will say about us just won't do.

Here, he's tapping into Clinton's real weakness, which was on display at the recent debate and is the reason for the viral success of Edwards's Politics of Parsing web video: Clinton's double speak. But he doesn't stop there. Later in the speech, he calls Clinton out on some of her more hawkish votes, arguing that it's her way of tacking to the right for the general election.

I am running for president because I am sick and tired of Democrats thinking that the only way to look tough on national security by talking and acting and voting like George Bush Republicans. When I am this party's nominee, my opponent will not be able to say I voted for the war in Iraq or gave Bush the benefit of the doubt on Iran or that I support Bush/Cheney policies of not talking to people we don't like.

Not only is he aligning Clinton with Bush and Cheney much more effectively than he did over the summer, but he's portraying Clinton as sort of a partisan traitor in a way, someone who'd sell out the values of the Democratic Party to act more "Republican" in order to win. Obama is saying we can win by being Democrats...acting like a Democrat is a winning strategy. That's very appealing and, while risky, I think was the best way to go after the beloved first lady who is widely perceived to have been a Democratic champion against the right-wing machine.

One other thing I liked about his speech is what wasn't in it. Did you notice that not once did Obama use his tired "turn the page" line? For me, it was tired the first time I heard it. Last night he debuted a much better slogan: "change that America can believe in." This line takes Obama's two strengths, the perception that he's a candidate of change and that he's honest and trustworthy, and merges them, suggesting by extension that Clinton says she'll deliver change, but can you believe she'll deliver what she says she'll deliver?

This speech, for me, signaled a new beginning for a campaign that has been scattered and incredibly undisciplined of late. Yepsen thinks it was so good that it could singlehandedly close his gap with Clinton in Iowa. Certainly it restores confidence in a campaign that had lost it, but it should not be forgotten that this event, a big rally speech attended by thousands of people, was Obama's turf. This is what Obama does. He still hasn't proven himself to be a consistent debater and his appearance on Meet The Press was unexceptional, whereas Clinton hit hers out of the park. So while I'm split on Obama's weekend as a whole (J-J dinner: A, Meet The Press: B-,) and hence unclear as to whether last night meant anything longterm for him, I think what it does signal is that Obama has found the sweet spot when it comes to using Clinton's weakness as an argument against her and for himself, which is something John Edwards, for all of his hard hitting rhetoric against Clinton, has failed as yet to do.



Display:


Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

I always hated that "turn the page" phrase. It was terrible and I hope Obama never uses it again.  


by Korha on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 06:51:59 PM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

It is noteworthy that the phrase has been a part of him differentiating himself from Clinton.  She is old politics, he is new politics.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:54:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

What's new about Obama's politics?

I don't get it.  He used Donnie McClurkin to attract religious voters who hate gays; then calls it his "big tent."  He divided two constituents who were minding their own business.  

He accepts money from state lobbyists and from Norman Hsu and Rezko.  

When he became Senator, he voted for every Iraq War funding bill.

He has 80% absentee voting record since September.  He skips important votes.

What's his "new politics?"  I'm not being glib, I'm really curious.


by FilbertSF on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:14:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Whats new about Obama's politics is that he is the neocon media candidate.  He says everything they say about Gays and Boomers and he calls it a new kind of politics.  I call it splitting the Democrats to put in another Republican. Obama is one scary dude.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 02:52:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

In case you missed it he attacked Boomers last Friday.  He says we have to get passed The Boomers who are devisive.  In answer to that Tom Brokaw who just finished a book called Boom said IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE BOOMERS FIGHTING FOR CIVIL RIGHTS IN THE 60'S OBAMA WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT TODAY.  The neocon media does not support anyone who isn't going to march to their tune.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:13:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

The oldest boomers were 16 when MLK gave the "I have a Dream" speech.


by parahammer on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 04:09:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Here lies the problem with White folks getting their knowledge of Black history from one month in February and McDonald's commercials.  The civil rights movement did not begin or end in the 1960's.  While the 1960's was a tipping point of sorts in the movement, particularly in that the advent of television made it possible to broadcast American apartheid to the rest of the world, it certainly was not the foundation or heart of the movement that spanded more than a century.  I'm sure Frederick Douglass, an ex-slave who ran fo rthe vice presidency almost 140 years ago, would find it interesting to hear that baby boomers created the springboard or provided the blueprint for a Black man running for the presidency.  


by Dee on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

I think Obama was talking about the late sixties and the marches for Civil Rights when he made that statement which he withdrew yesterday because of the blowback by the boomers.  The guy who wants us all to get along seems to be making alot of enemies in the Democratic Party.  His unfavorables have gone up 13% in one week.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:33:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Martin Luther King died in 1968 that would make the oldest boomers 22 when he died.  I am not sure what year he gave his I HAVE A DREAM speech but it is my recollection that he gave that speech shortly before he was killed.  The boomer period is 1946-1964.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:37:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)


King's delivery of the speech on August 28, 1963, from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial during the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom was a defining moment of the American Civil Rights Movement. Delivered to over 200,000 civil rights supporters, the speech is often considered to be one of the greatest and most notable speeches in history and was ranked the top American speech of the 20th century by a 1999 poll of scholars of public address.

Wikipedia - I Have a Dream


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 12:41:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

I think we should start steeling from Hillary too - how about 'flip the pancake?'


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Obama would like to turn the page because he hasn't a clue how to fix the problems that Bush will have left this country.  A man who has missed 200 votes in the Senate in the 2 years he has been there seems to be the know-it-all now. Just think if he spent 6 years in the Senate he might just know a bit more.  I hope thats exactly what he does.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 02:47:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards hit it out of the Park. (2.00 / 1)

I think that Obama had a great speech but Edwards was the best of the night.

Obama had the best placement and so the buzz is at the end.

Also I kept hearing Obama echo Edwards themes.  Nonetheless I really liked his speech
and looked at both again this morning and Edwards is still the better one in my opinion.  


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 06:54:23 PM EST

Edwards had a great speech (2.00 / 1)

I think he and Obama have very different styles and appeal to different types of voters. Although some people are undecided between Obama and Edwards, I tend to find that you either like Edwards' fighting style or you like Obama's more conciliatory language.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:46:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards hit it out of the Park. (2.00 / 1)

Exactly!

I did the same. Watch both speeches last night (i am located in germany, so it was 4 and 6 am here) and I just watched them both again on youtube.

Make no mistake. Both speeches were VERY good. Richardsons was ok, Biden lacked any energy.

But it was Edwards who had the disadvantage to go first and nevertheless got the auditorium to its feet. He showed real fighting spirit. He talked truth to power. He wasnt afraid to take on and name the special interests that stand in the way of american workers.

He was passionate. And he obviously felt at ease in that kind of setting. By weaving in personal stories he gave the healthcare crisis a face, he was the only one to explicitly call for equality of gays!

He looked presidential. And even if I will get lynched for that comment: He looked a bit like Kennedy.

Obamas speech was different, but very good too. I just cant see, what the pundiits like David Yepsen seem to see here. He hit exactly the right tone, the right points, was able to explain why he is running for president and why he should become president. He cleverly built in some subtle criticism of democrats as a whole and HRC in particular, without ever mentioning her by name.

I cringed when he claimed that he would take his republican opponent head on if he were to be switftboated. From what I have seen of him up to now, I simply cant imagine how a hard hitting Barack Obama looks like. He oozes gentility and bipartisanship. He even looked somewhat presidential, while he is quite obviously looking too young for that. IMHO he looked a little too sober and even somewhat tired. Ok, he had to go last at around 11 pm. Still, Obama showed not as much energy as Edwards and to my eyes he looked a little bit uncomfortable and stiff.

I think Yepsen is wrong, and Edwards will benefit more form the Jefferson dinner appearance. Obama and Hillary have TV ads up on air for months now. Iowa voters have seen a lot of them. They havent seen that much of Edwards due to the MSM mainly reporting the two so called frontrunners.

My prediction: Both Obama and Edwards will see an uptick in the polls in Iowa. Possibly even Richardson. Biden will decline and Hillary probably too.

Thats just my opinion and how I received these speeches.


by MarcTGFG on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:24:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards hit it out of the Park. (none / 0)

Take my word for it, Obama can hurl some real zingers.


No Quacks, please.
by noquacks on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 11:01:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards hit it out of the Park. (2.00 / 1)

I like your comment, but don't you think there's a difference in the Edwards of 2007 and the Edwards of 2004? Both give great speeches, both hit populist notes, but the Edwards of 2007 talks like a liberal and  the Edwards of 2004 didn't.

True, Barack and Hillary have been on the air for a while, but John Edwards is well known to Iowa Democrats because he did so well there last time around. This is both a boon and a curse because he's not likely to have lost his faithful following, but those who prefer a real anti-war candidate, a candidate guided by Democratic principles, can't square the two Edwardses.

This group of people have been stuck between the triangulation of Clinton, the conciliation of Obama, and the inconsistency of Edwards. I believe Barack gave this group what it needed last night. He tied the knot between bipartisanship and liberal principle, the same way he tied it together when I first saw him four years ago in a living room in LA.

For those that haven't made up your mind yet, please watch the speech. You'll be glad you did.


by davefordemocracy on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 11:05:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards hit it out of the Park. (none / 0)

John Edwards gave a remarkable speech last night that only the most cynical, dynastic Clintonites, starry-eyed Obama Supporters, or a punditocracy banking on a novelty horserace could dismiss.
Not needing an oil-slick new slogan that could have come directly from our greatest contributers to greenhouse gasses ("Turn Up The Heat!"), or a WWF Announcer to reassert th Audacity of Hype, Edwards simply told his story. And The truth.

He told it with grace and with soul-stirring passion.

Barak Obama recited a generic Democratic laundry list in a more animated fashion than usual, but is still too professorial for my tastes.

I'll go to the mat for Edwards.  
Maybe to the laundromat for Obama.


by sgary on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 04:27:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Edwards hit it out of the Park. (none / 0)

Whereas most other Edwards supporters have been gracious in their talking of Obama's speech, most pundits picking it as top speech of the night and most Edward's supporters stating that BOTH candidates gave great speeches, your ignorance is astounding.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:18:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 5)

It is reassuring to note that Senator Obama's speech was received in the spirit in which it was intended, as not only a compelling case for his candidacy but a rallying point for the Democratic party.  My favourite bit was this:


This party - the party of Jefferson and Jackson; of Roosevelt and Kennedy - has always made the biggest difference in the lives of the American people when we led, not by polls, but by principle; not by calculation, but by conviction; when we summoned the entire nation to a common purpose - a higher purpose.  And I run for the Presidency of the United States of America because that's the party America needs us to be right now.

Senator Barack Obama - 10 Nov 07

A very definitive call for renewal of traditional Democratic values which we are arguably otherwise willing to spurn for the sake of victory.  Well, not in Obama's vision for the Democratic party, or mine either.  Acting like Democrats is a winning strategy.


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 06:58:59 PM EST

nice to hear him embrace being a Democrat (2.00 / 1)

that bothered me earlier in the year, when he would give a whole speech without mentioning what party he's in.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nice to hear him embrace being a Democrat (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, that has bothered me too, frankly.  But now he didn't just embrace being a Democrat, he sounded downright passionate about it.  He's a fighter, too, apparently, at last:


And if those Republicans come at me with the same fear-mongering and swift-boating that they usually do, then I will take them head on.  Because I believe the American people are tired of fear and tired of distractions and tired of diversions. We can make this election not about fear, but about the future.

Senator Barack Obama - 10 Nov 07

I was gratified to see him articulate these partisan positions with such apparent fluency and enthusiasm.  


by Shaun Appleby on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:44:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nice to hear him embrace being a Democrat (none / 0)

But by that rationale, none of our candidates can win... not only will they drudge up the 90's the Hillary/Lesbian/Feminazi emails and letters will come. With Edwards the slimy trial lawyer/Pretty boy/Gay emails will fly... don't be naive that Obama will be hit and need I remind you, the GOP base hates gay people and those accused of being gay as much as they hate those being accused of being Muslim.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:21:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nice to hear him embrace being a Democrat (none / 0)

des--Obama didn't mention the party he is in because he isn't a Democrat.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:16:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nice to hear him embrace being a Democrat (none / 0)

That was pure ignorance.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:22:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: nice to hear him embrace being a Democrat (none / 0)

When Obama loses the Democratic nomination and runs as an Independent will you still support him?  If you do you are giving the Presidency to another Republican.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:30:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Obama was put in to do a job, triangulate the Democrats.  He hasn't been able to accomplish that so he is getting down and dirty.  The politics of hope has become the politics of desperation.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 02:54:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Well, thanks for clearing that up.  How 'bout the politics of hope we beat the pants of you at election time?


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:06:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

He's an ignorant moron...


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

In this corner we have Barack Obama the amateur contender who the Washington Press Corp adores but who seems to be unable to knock out the rest of the Democrats.

Hopefully he will pick up his money and go back to the Senate till he becomes a pro.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Watch this space, my friend.  We're playing street-lot basketball if you hadn't noticed, not World Championship Wrestling.  You guys came prepared for the wrong event, Hillary too.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 12:43:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 1)

My favorite line of the night as well.  When you hear and see Democrats unwilling to take a stand in fear of the Republican slime machine, it's hard to believe that this was once a Party of Roosevelt and Kennedy that stood-down Nazis and the Soviet Union.  


by Dee on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:27:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 1)

I am feeling uplifted by the positive news and blog reports.


by aiko on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:21:08 PM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

I don't see how anybody can believe in somebody with no experience, no record, no ideas and no substance who campaigns solely on the basis of one "judgment" he was too uninformed and unimportant to make, but that's just me.


"What do Barack Obama and David Koresh have in common? Too god damn much."
by ThinkingDem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:38:48 PM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

You apparently have been paying no attention whatsoever to Obama or
to what Obama's actually been saying and doing. But that's just me.


by horizonr on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:39:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 2)

Me, neither.  That's why my guy is Obama.


No Quacks, please.
by noquacks on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 11:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Amen -- Obama believes in the THIRD WAY. Alot of top Republicans believe that we should have a President who knows whats best for everyone and governs alone.  He reminds me of Bush.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 02:58:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Obama is no liberal.  Two weeks before the Senate election which gave Obama his seat, his Republican Competitor dropped out of the race because he was a bigamist leaving Obama no opponent.  Obama kisses up to Repubs every chance he gets.  He also campaigned for Lieberman when the other Dems campaigned for the winner of the Primary Ned Lamont.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:19:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 1)

Are you really so stupid to post this on a site with educated readers?  Are you THAT LAZY to do the ACTUAL research?

1) Obama's opponent was NOT a bigamist.  A school child with an ounce of intelligence could tell you that.  His opponent resigned because of what was in his divorce records with actress Geri Ryan.  He brought her to a swingers club and wanted her to have sex with him there in front of people.  She didnt want to, it destroyed the marriage and they divorced.  THE conservatives saw this as a no no and he was forced to drop.  If he was a bigamist, which is a crime in the US, he would have gone to jail earlier than the race.  

2) Obama, after winning over 50% of the vote in a crowded primary field, had a decent size lead over Ryan in the polls before he dropped out or the records were even unsealed.  In an increasingly Blue State, he was going to win... It wouldn't have been by the margin he beat Keyes and he wouldn't have been able to campaign for others (as he was asked to do after his convention speech), but he would have one.

3) Obama is far more progressive than Hillary could ever dream of.  

4) Obama has had more consistently progressive stances than Edwards over the years, although currently in 2007 I would consider Edwards to be the more Progressive of the two, although by a small margin (as compared to a Kucinich who is farther left than both of them)

5) No he doesn't kiss up to Republicans.  

6) No he didn't campaign for Lieberman in the General Election.  Not once.  He campaigned for him in the primary, as did nearly every elected Democrat.  Once he lost the primary, Obama stopped all support for Lieberman.  He did not actively campaign for Lemont, which by all evidence was at the behest of Harry Reid who let only a few New England Senators campaign for him.  He did send a fundraising letter, but I agree the effort by him and MOST Democrats could have been better.  What is wrong that he didn't campaign for Lemont?  Yes, but I understand why he didn't, I understand leaderships point of view, as a defecting Lieberman meant Republican leadership in the Senate... Stay out of the race and you can have your cake and eat it too, Get into it and you run the risk of losing control of the chamber if the perfect storm happens (and it did).  Democratic Leadership play it safe.  

7)  Get your facts straight before posting;  if you can't do that go back to Hillary is 44 or Free Republic or wherever you come from.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:39:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

All they understand is repetition.  That's how they got to where they are and it is there only way back but it is like trying to get a hippopotamus through an airlock.  My border collie is brighter, but she's a marvel.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 02:59:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Obama is supported by our neocon media -- that says it all for me.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

I think before attacking the substance or intellect of an Ivy League graduate and duly elected member of the United States Senate, you learn to properly use a period.  But that's just me.


by Dee on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:35:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Isn't it nice that we have a free country where the media can tell you who to vote for. Now maybe if Obama had not missed 200 votes while a sitting Senator for 2 years I might be impressed.  By the way, I know how to use a period.  Obama sucks period.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:28:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree with this point (none / 0)

using Clinton's weakness as an argument against her and for himself, which is something John Edwards, for all of his hard hitting rhetoric against Clinton, has failed as yet to do.

I think Edwards is making an argument for himself, not just against Hillary. He has a long history of taking on big corporations, and he has a long history of not taking money from DC lobbyists. When he gets to the part of his stump speech about how to get the big change we need in Washington, he does make a case for himself.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:49:22 PM EST

Re: I disagree with this point (none / 0)

Edwards has got to make that argument with bigger issues than Lobbiest Money.  His speech was good for a trial lawyer but bad for presidential candidate.  We are looking for a candidate who will solve the myriad of issues which are being left by this President not someone who speaks about an ancellary issue like this.  People with sick kids who cannot afford healthcare are not interested in Lobbiest Money.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:03:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree with this point (none / 0)

Edwards had one of the better Healthcare plans out there... followed by Obama.  Hillary's sucked royally and does little to help.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:40:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree with this point (none / 0)

Hillary's healthcare plan was widely praised.  If Edwards healthcare plan is so good why doesn't he talk more about it?  I like Edwards but he ran a lousy campaign in 04 with his two Americas theme and is not running a good campaign now.  I think he is 10 times the person that Obama is but I do not see him speak about the big issues which would do him more good then continually attacking Hillary.  There is quite a bit of blow back on this.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 11:45:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 2)

When that misjudgement cost over 3000 American lives, tens of thousands of others' lives and a wrecked economy, it pretty significant. The dead (unlike Senators) don't get a second chance to make things right.


by ahs on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:53:32 PM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (1.66 / 3)

It would have been a better speech if he had delivered it at a Republican dinner:

a) Democrats are corrupt

b) Democrats are neocons

c) The last Democratic Presidency was a failed administration.

Republicans would have eaten that stuff up.


by hwc on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:56:43 PM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

I don't know, however, that Republicans would applaud the one trillion dollar tax increase Obama endorsed today on Meet the Press.


by hwc on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:57:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess being a registered independent (none / 0)

who voted for Romney for governor makes you an authority on what Republicans would eat up.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 2)

Well I would endorse that plan by whoever offers it. I would like people to start paying for this now rather than put the finances on the shoulders of the country's grandchilren.


by Progressive America on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 1)

Amen.  Staying Contently Blinded to our problems is no way to solve them.

If we don't solve SS with a tax increase now, say hello to private ss accounts in 15 years - because, that will be the only option.  And, will have Hillary saying 'we can grow are way out' to thank.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:39:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree with you here (none / 0)

Medicare is in much worse shape financially. Social Security will be solvent for at least the next 30 years.

The priority needs to be fixing Medicare. And that will involve, among other things, fixing the prescription drug coverage bill that was basically corporate welfare for PhRMA. Who is best suited for that task? It sure isn't Hillary.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree with you here (none / 0)

agreed, although my understanding is Medicare ceases to be a problem with the Obama Health Care overhaul.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:28:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree with you here (none / 0)

the Edwards plan also solves medicare... both are huge issues, because they require advanced planning.  Medicare has been in trouble since the 90s, and two adminstrations of not fixing it correctly have gotten us to a crisis point.  SS will be in the same place in 15 year, that is 15 years out from going bankrupt - now is the time to fix the whole.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree with you here (none / 0)

We need to start paying for the extra Social Security costs now, rather than put the burden on the future.


by Progressive America on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 10:34:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Social Security is not in trouble except that Bush has been robbing it blind.  We just need to raise the caps and it will be good for the next hundred years.  The Republicans have tried to scare us about it because they want it gone.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:09:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Let Obama continue to talk about tax increases that should blow him out of the water.  God he is iritating.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:21:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 2)

Man, you really live in a quite obliviously constructed world


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 1)

Expect to see more of this as Clinton slips further in the polls in the coming months.


by bruh21 on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 2)

Oh, yeah. It's gonna get really ugly. They have already started in with the Diaries trying to pit Edwards supporters and Obama supporters against each other in an effort to distract away from Hillary's declining poll numbers, revelations that she's planting questions at her events and the fact they pulled a classic GW when she bussed in out of stater's to the JJ Diner event and then had Joe Biden assert that Obamas supporters were from Chicago even though the Obama campaign has proof that they were all Iowans from all 99 counties. It's gonna get ugly and nasty and Camp Clinton will be called out on it and stopped on every turn. Even the Media is taking notice. Even Bill Clinton himself is being called out on his tactics. He totally messed up with the Gender thing and the "Blame me" for UHC . No one bought it.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:47:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 1)

We are watching the weels comes off the Clinton bus...She was right about one thing with the 'Politics of Pile On,' as soon as an inevitable candidate appears vulnerable they're in big trouble.


Bring Back MyDD - Just say No to Rec'ing Candidate Diaries.
by CardBoard on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

My thing is she may still win, but it will hopely occur because she deserves the win rather than a coronation like we had with Kerry. We should have learned from that, but some never learn anything from anything.


by bruh21 on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden quote (2.00 / 2)

Biden suggesting Obama supporters were all from Chicago really bothered me because the Obama peoplemade sure that Iowan supporters would be the first to be offered tickets , not out of towners while the Clinton campaign had send emails offering out of staters free ticket.

Biden should be taken to task for this comment and make him explain to us how did he know those people were from Chicago.

From all i know , those many of them were students who attends Iowa colleges and i just couldn't understand why Biden would do that.

Seemed like they wanted to downplay the fact that he had so many people on the building.I guess Biden forgot Obama drew 10,000 people on earth day in Iowa.


by Prodigy on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden quote (none / 0)

Obama's people deny it, but they were offering tickets to the event, as well as lodging and transportation, to people as far away as Baltimore.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/det ail/4v5b8

If they didn't let them go to the event after that long a ride, as the campaign insisted it wouldn't  do, according to Marc Ambinder in  Atlantic Monthly

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arch ives/2007/11/the_jeffersonjackson_dinner _a.php
that was a pretty crappy bait and switch to get them to ride all those hours to "canvas."


by sgary on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 04:50:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden quote (none / 0)

Well, only 6 people signed up on that page and it never ONCE said they got to go to the event.  It simply said it was a good canvassing opportunity and they got to tour the Headquarters.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:45:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Hillary slipping?  I don't think so.  Obama is a desperate man cause in 2 weeks nobody is going to be paying attention to the Primaries.  I think his comment about Clinton's administration should destroy his candidacy.  Bill Clinton is at 63% approval right now and Obama's negatives are rising.  They have gone up 13% in the last week.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:24:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

HWC--Republicans did eat that up.  Obama is supported by the neocon media he is the quasi-Republican candidate.  Glad we found out now.  Wonder if Karl Rove is his mentor.  His wife said an interesting thing a couple of weeks ago.  It hard getting people to try something new so we just have to try harder.  If people want something new you don't force them to want it.    


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:07:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 0)

Boy your ignorance is amazing.  I don't know if I buy you have a college age daughter... I'd expect someone of that age to be a LOT less ignorant and make far fewer idiotic comments like the one above.  Continue supporting Hillary and the continued invasion of Special interests in the government.  THAT will make a difference.  4 more years of mediocrity... Elect Hillary.  4 years of good Progressive actions, Elect Obama or Edwards.


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Funny I'd say the first two pretty much describe Hillary fairly well.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 08:57:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You know, it breaks my heart to hear (none / 0)

others Dem's use Republican slurs like "triangulate". It's great you and David love this stuff, but I was much more moved by Hillary, Edwards and even Richardson's speech.  They really defined what it is to be a Democrat.


by bookgrl on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 07:59:24 PM EST

now we can't say "triangulate"? (none / 0)

Are you saying that triangulation hasn't been a key element of the Clinton political strategy for more than a decade?

What are we supposed to call it now that won't sound like a Republican slur?


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:16:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am saying I have never (none / 0)

heard Democrats use that term in my life. I think Hillary has been very direct.


by bookgrl on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am saying I have never (2.00 / 1)

Then you haven't been listening.  "Triangulation" was the term everybody used to describe Bill Clinton's tactic of taking a basically Repug position (like kicking people off of welfare and calling it "reform") to appear more "mainstream" and appeal to a broader spectrum of voters.  Liberals like me hate the tactic every bit as much as the pugs do.  For all I know James Carville coined the term.  What I do know is that I have not heard any other nomenclature for the tactic.  "Triangulation" is not a Repug slur like using "Democrat" as an adjective is.

As far as Hillary being direct is concerned, you must be so used to politicians saying nothing (or mutually exclusive things simultaneously) that you mistake obfuscation for direct, honest communication.  Hillary Clinton says nothing using a lot of words better than anyone I have ever heard in my life, including Bill Clinton.  If that's your measure of a successful politician, then Hillary is a consummate practitioner of the art.  I prefer words that communicate meaning.


Election fraud is treason, nothing less.
by NM Ward Chair on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:16:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: now we can't say "triangulate"? (2.00 / 2)

call a duck, a duck. the minute you get into playing along with this stuff of trying to shut down debate about clinton, is the minute we return to the pre debate frame of giving her a pass on what she says and does. if people are so certain that her tactics are righ and her leadership makes sense they should be able to defend those tactics and leadership for what they are rather than avoiding criticism.


by bruh21 on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You know, it breaks my heart to hear (none / 0)

Hillary did talk about what the Democrats want and what our party stands for.  I liked Richardson's speech too.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:25:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

you are moved by Rchardson ouhhhhh? may be because he has become the mouth piece of Clinton.


by guymu25 on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:05:57 PM EST

No. Look I really don't like (none / 0)

tear other people down speeches.  That's just me.  We all have a right to our opinions.  I also mentioned Edwards speech.


by bookgrl on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. Look I really don't like (none / 0)

Richardson's been tearing people down his whole campaign. For example, right before he said everyone should be positive, he dug in at everyone on stage on Iraq and he dug into Senate Democrats on Mukasey. So it's interesting to me that he gets a free pass when he's been attacking people.


by Progressive America on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:35:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. Look I really don't like (none / 0)

He didn't attack anyone as being a liar, or triangulater.  He didn't attack their integrity.


by bookgrl on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:45:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. Look I really don't like (none / 0)

Edwards and Obama are just making differences, just as Richardson did.


by Progressive America on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 10:33:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

It seems to me most of the time Yepsen's analysis has been wrong consistently and he obviously has no great love for Clinton , so I don't know why most people take Yepsen's word as gospel.

Obama's speech didn't cut it for me , he basically attacked both Clinton's and the 90's , nothing much in there for me.

Edwards/Clinton had better speeches . He drew the best spot of the night and he failed to make the best use of it .

So I really don't bother myself with what Yepsen syas.


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:11:15 PM EST

No kidding. (none / 0)

That guy despises Hillary. Ha, I meant Yepsen, by the way.


by bookgrl on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:13:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No kidding. (none / 0)

Yeah I know that , a lot of iowa democratic activists actually say he doesn't know much about democratic politics.

But so many people on this blog especially obama supporters seem to latch on his every word like it some gospel or something.

@ days before the last DMr poll came out he wrote a column about how Hillary Clinton was doing poorly in iowa and boom the dmr poll comes out and she is leading , imagine he wrote another column a couple of days after the poll on how it was bad news for Clinton that she was ahead .

I was scratching my head , what in the world was he talking about.


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:22:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No kidding. (none / 0)

The pundits aren't interested in the truth they just want to get out their propaganda.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:28:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't know who it was (none / 0)

but one of the Iowa bloggers started a "Surviving Yepsen" blog earlier this year. He or she didn't keep it up, but there was some humorous stuff on there:

http://survivingyepsen.blogspot.com/

I liked this from the Surviving Yepsen FAQ:

How do I know if I'm suffering from symptoms related to "Surviving Yepsen"?

Upon reading David's Yepsenities, if you experience any of the following, you should go to "Surviving Yepsen" and share your experience and/or vent as a means of alleviating the symptoms: Do you ask yourself:; "How did this guy get this job?""Where's the support for his assertions?""Why so pessimistic?"/"WTF?"

Or do you say to yourself, "I could write better than this?" Or do you feel immediately compelled to write a letter to the editor challenging Yepsen's assertions?

Other symptoms may include nausea, cold sweats, a new appreciation for FOX news, an onset of Turrets Syndrome, or the desire to repeatedly pound your forehead on the kitchen table and/or computer keys.

Why waste energy on Yepsen?

To help preserve our state's dignity and our first-in-the nation status for holding the Presidential Caucuses, David Yepsen must be held accountable. When the nation's eyes are on Iowans and the media outside of Iowa turns to Yepsen for political analysis, we should not have to bury our heads in the soil. Not only does Yespen undermine the political credibility of our state, but his slanted fallacies also show that Yepsen harbors an inner-hatred for liberal/progressive Democrats, unions (especially teacher unions), optimism, the King's English, research, bloggers, and anyone whom he perceives to be smarter than him.

I probably agree with no more than one out of every 10 columns by Yepsen.


John McCain: 100 years in Iraq "would be fine with me."
by desmoinesdem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't know who it was (none / 0)

Your state like my state of Nevada is a caucus state and therefore polls are unreliable because it depends on who shows up -- Hillary is 37% ahead in Nevada but it means nothing until we see who is willing to take 1-2 hours of their day caucusing.  So when the pundits carry on about the Iowa polls its laughable.


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:30:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 3)

I agree with Todd.

This was , by far , Barack Obamas best speech and it was so perfectly balanced that he managed to draw distinctions between himself and his rivals, attack the Republican opposition and still maintain a unifying message overall. Why? Because he does not generalize groups. He specifically targets and addresses who's causing the problems in both parties. Examples of NOT generalizing.

Obama rejects the Clinton's polarizing politics of the 1990's - not the entire generation that they are a part of.

Obama will take on Bush Republicans - not attack and discourage fellow citizens who are registered Republicans from voting for him.

Obama rejects cowardly Democrats who vote like Bush Republicans- not the entire Democratic Party.

That's how you address things. Not by triangulation and polarizing rhetoric because you alienate people who would have been open to you and open to the Democratic Party as a whole.

You can't tell someone that they are nothing but a ruthless POS and then after the Primaries , ask them for their vote. You wont get their vote and you wont unite them. Obama doesn't do that which is why he has swarms of Iowa and New Hampshire Republicans switching parties to vote for him and caucus for him.


"I don't oppose all wars...what I do oppose, is a dumb war" ~ Barack Obama
by BlueDiamond on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:32:55 PM EST

I thought... (2.00 / 1)

...Obama was great on Meet the Press... Russert didn't lay a glove on him...


What's the Point?
by Vermonter on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 08:47:55 PM EST

Re: I thought... (none / 0)

Why would Russert lay a glove on Obama when he is carrying Obama's water.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:32:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Huh (none / 0)

Aren't you an avowed Obama backer, Todd? If so, seems like that might be something worth mentioning in a post that's basically your largely unsupported opinion that Obama rocked. Y'know, full disclosure and all that. I mean, when I write a pro-Edwards diary I generally try to make a point of noting that I'm already an Edwards backer. Seems like it might behoove you to do something similar (assuming I'm remembering correctly about you being an Obama backer, of course).


Stop blaming the media. The FACTS have a liberal bias.
by McSnatherson on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:00:27 PM EST

Re: Huh (none / 0)

Most people reading his posts for a while now have that figured out already but I don't remember an explicit announcement of that.

But I suspect most people know that already , which is not a problem everyone has a right to pick a candidate .


When I speak I have a southern drawl.. When you come down here Stop and say hello I'm an American from south of the Mason Dixon line
by lori on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:08:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh (none / 0)

Lori, I didn't know that.  Perhaps I'm naive, but I usually assume people who get to post on the frontpage are agnostic when it comes to the Dem candidates.

Now that I've been told Todd is an Obama supporter, I have to take what he says with a grain of salt.


by FilbertSF on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:10:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Huh (none / 0)

Well, I'm certainly not disputing peoples' right to pick a candidate. I'm just saying that it seems like if you do, it imposes something of an obligation on you to communicate that fact to people when you're speaking on related topics. You shouldn't have to go on some major archive trawl to figure out if a poster is an avowed supporter of a particular candidate - and certainly not if they're in the habit of writing about and evaluating that particular candidate.


Stop blaming the media. The FACTS have a liberal bias.
by McSnatherson on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 05:51:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (2.00 / 2)

Obama rocked at the JJ dinner.  Yepsin confirms that.  

I felt that Obama and Edwards shared the night, but that's just me.  


by JeremiahTheMessiah on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 09:11:43 PM EST

Obama is a Farce (2.00 / 1)

http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/0 11325.php

From the above link, by Jeff Dinelli: The Left Coaster

Last week I noticed locals inviting people to sign up for a November 10th bus trip to Iowa. It was a puzzling idea, since the University of Illinois football team wasn't playing in Iowa yesterday (they actually played at number one ranked Ohio State, a game in which they somehow won). Someone told me it was "some kind of a political trip," so I called around to a couple of Democratic offices and found out it was a Barack Obama supporter trip to the Jefferson Jackson fundraiser in Des Moines. The busses were coming from Chicago, and I live on I-80, so they were hoping to fill up seats on the way. I probably should have jumped on board, but the price was a little steep, and truthfully I'd rather hang with my kids than a bunch of Chicago political insiders.

So when the esteemed David Yepsen of the Des Moines Register declared Obama the winner in part for a speech that "inspired the crowd like no other," it was no suprise, really. Joe Biden called it what it was when he hit the stage, saying "Hello, Iowa" and then waving at the section of Veterans Memorial Auditorium packed with the Obama supporters and shouting, "Hello, Chicago!"

In fact, Obama's speech wasn't any different than any other he has offered over the past couple of years. "I was against the Iraq war from the start," "There is no Blue State and no Red State," etc. Anyway, one gets the feeling that Obama could stand in front of a mic and read the Des Moines phone book and Yepsen would be tripping over himself trying to find his thesaurus to best describe how inspiring a speech the senator had delivered.

Headlines across the nation speak only of Obama and Hillary Clinton, who took her share of shots on this night, but attempted to turn the discussion toward Republicans and the White House. "I'm not interested in attacking my opponents, I'm interested in attacking the problems of America," Clinton said. "And I believe we should be turning up the heat on the Republicans. They deserve all the heat we can give them."

Indeed. We really can't afford to lose this one. Four more years of these vengeful half-bright rich boys in the White House will drive a whole generation out of politics. It's time to win, and the hell with heroes on white horses, they can ride mules or Harley-Davidsons for all I care. We're talking about winning.


by samueldem on Sun Nov 11, 2007 at 11:18:06 PM EST

Re: Obama is a Farce (none / 0)

sam -- thank you for that great post on the left coaster.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:36:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)


I agree galdiator... How much is too much???
by KensUSA on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:14:33 AM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Concern Troll, are you going to vote Republican.
Unless you make over $200K you do not have to worry about any tax increases.

by parahammer on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 04:21:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Oh just don your white hoods already.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:15:48 AM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

So.. if you disagree with Obama, your in the KKK?  I look at him as I do any other man and his race has nothing to do with outrageous tax policy.  Go Hillary!!


by KensUSA on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 12:17:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

The outrageous tax policy is a load of crap and I am wondering if your outrage is the same.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:27:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

That's just it...ridiculous assertion to make, right? Just as outlandish as claiming that attacking Hillary is sexist.


"Well Hillary, I looking forward to you advising me as well." - Barack Obama
by General Sherman on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 09:22:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

Let's get this Social Security proposal straight: he proposes raising the cap, maybe with a "doughnut hole." Right now, if you make over 100K, you pay nothing on the excess. The rest of us pay on our entire income. Just a small adjustment to the cap will shore up Social Security for generations. It's fair and the vast majority will no change in their tax rate.

Otherwise, I think it was a brilliant speech. I liked Edwards speech, but it's too late for him. If wanted to be a populist firebrand, he should've done that in 2004 and while he was in the Senate.


by dmc2 on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 01:58:35 AM EST

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

He doesn't.  You want to hoax him about some tax.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:29:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's Remarkable J-J Speech (none / 0)

glad--check out Harry Reid's website.  He said there is no problem with Social Security.  Republicans want us to believe SS is in trouble because they want to gut it.  Even the stock market does not want it privatized because they don't want millions of small investors screwing up the market.  Fear and Smear is all the Republicans have given us and now Obama has taken a page from their playbook.  


by changingroom on Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 03:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]