University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll: Obama and Huckabee Surging

The new University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll (pdf) out this morning has some intriguing results on both sides. But first a note about the poll's methodology. It's important to note that the question asked of respondents was open-ended:

If your caucus was today, who would you support for president in your caucus? Just tell me the name.

Which leads Mark Blumenthal at Pollster to issue the following warning:

We have not included the previous Hawkeye polls in our Iowa chart because of the use of the open-ended question. This is not a statement about the quality of the survey. As I wrote back in August:

This [open-ended question] undoubtedly provides a tougher test of voter commitment, but also produces a much bigger undecided and renders the results incomparable to other Iowa polls.

With that in mind, the results are as follows:

The Democrats (306 LVs, Oct. 17-24, MOE 5.5%):

CandidateOctoberAugustRCP 5-poll Ave.
Clinton28.924.828.8
Obama26.619.323.6
Edwards202621.2
Richardson7.29.48.8
Biden5.3--
Don't Know8.914.4-

This has got to be a painful result for Edwards, coming on the heels of the news that he's just finished visiting all 99 counties in Iowa vs. 59 for Obama and 39 for Clinton. Contrary to popular belief about Iowa politics, if the most recent polls are right, it would appear that there is an inverse correlation between number of towns visited and how well the candidates are polling, and it just may be an indication to Edwards that it's time to start advertising before an "Edwards falling" storyline takes hold. But there is some good news for Edwards: perhaps the more important statistic, the likelihood of attendance at the Jan. 3 caucus.

On the bright side is that the people who do support Edwards have a history of showing up when it counts. Nearly 76% of Edwards' poll supporters attended the 2004 caucus, while 58% of Clinton's and 55% of Obama's supporters made the trip four years ago. "If we only look at caucus-goers who are almost certain to attend, we find that Edwards makes up the gap with Obama and Clinton, and moves clearly ahead," said David Redlawsk, the poll's director and an associate professor of political science at the University of Iowa.

The Republicans: (285 RVs, Oct. 17-24, MOE 5.8%):

CandidateOctoberAugustRCP 4-poll Ave.
Romney36.227.826.3
Giuliani13.111.713.3
Huckabee12.81.813.8
Thompson11.47.615
McCain63.17
Don't Know14.927.4-

The story here is Huckabee who's increased his share of the vote by 11 points in almost 2 months. His tie for second place tracks with other polling in the state and indeed, looking at the internals, it's clear that his growing strength comes from the born again/evangelical crowd. While Romney gets 29% of that vote, Huckabee is close behind with 21%. But it's the non-evangelical vote that the candidates will need to work on if they hope to eat away at Romney's support: he leads this voting block with 41% of the vote, more than 3x anyone else.

Romney's impressive increase in support since August should not go unnoticed, however. Conventional wisdom was that his support was beginning to plateau and Giuliani was starting to close the gap. Clearly, such a trend is not evident here. At the same time, Romney polls so far above his average that it could be an outlier, we'll have to wait for more polling out of the state to confirm if in fact he's surging going into the final 2 months.



Display:


Here's your headline (none / 0)

"If we only look at caucus-goers who are almost certain to attend, we find that Edwards makes up the gap with Obama and Clinton, and moves clearly ahead," said David Redlawsk, the poll's director and an associate professor of political science at the University of Iowa.


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:33:05 AM EST

Re: Here's your headline (none / 0)

I still find it very hard to think of Iowa as anything other than a three-way toss-up.  It's just so hard to poll the caucuses.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:37:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's your headline (none / 0)

I agree.

Edwards either win here, decisively, or that is it.  A close second is not good enough, here.

JMHO


by iamready on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:57:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Must-win for Clinton (none / 0)

I think its clearly Senator Clinton's race to lose at this point. With the lead in all the most recent polls, and with the most money and (as of this week) most staff on the ground, the expectation clearly has to be that she's the favorite.


by desmoulins on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:16:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with you (none / 0)

If anything, this is a bad poll for Richardson, who has lost his upward momentum despite months of tv ads.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:54:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's your headline (none / 0)

Yea, "clearly ahead" is a pretty good confirmation. It probably bodes well though for Edwards to get written off, if he is going to win Iowa. People love a comeback.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:59:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's your headline (none / 0)

Actually I think its crucial for Edwards to come from behind. If he's expected to win Iowa and does, its not news. If Clinton's expected to win Iowa, as she now is, and Edwards "comes back" to win, it turns the entire race on its head.


by desmoulins on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 06:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Professor needs batteries for his calculator (none / 0)

Nearly 76% of Edwards' poll supporters attended the 2004 caucus, while 58% of Clinton's and 55% of Obama's supporters made the trip four years ago. "If we only look at caucus-goers who are almost certain to attend, we find that Edwards makes up the gap with Obama and Clinton, and moves clearly ahead," said David Redlawsk, the poll's director and an associate professor of political science at the University of Iowa.

Yeah?  The poll says Clinton is at 28.9%, Edwards at 20%.

Edwards' projected votes
76% of 20% = 15.2%

Clinton's projected votes
58% of 28.9% = 16.8%

So how exactly does that put Edwards "clearly ahead?"


by Trickster on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go check out the actual poll (none / 0)

Actually you're conflating two different pieces of information. One is the % of each candidate's supporters who participated in 04. The other is a cross-tabulation showing who's ahead among those the poll considers "certain to attend." Among those certain to attend, Edwards is ahead.

Thats why Clinton is betting the bank on expanding her field staff in Iowa. She needs to mobilize a massive number of marginal participants if her actual performance is going to match the sky-high expectations on caucus day.


by desmoulins on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Go check out the actual poll (none / 0)

Got my conflation from the article.  It put those two data points together with the insinutation they were related:

On the bright side is that the people who do support Edwards have a history of showing up when it counts. Nearly 76% of Edwards' poll supporters attended the 2004 caucus, while 58% of Clinton's and 55% of Obama's supporters made the trip four years ago. "If we only look at caucus-goers who are almost certain to attend, we find that Edwards makes up the gap with Obama and Clinton, and moves clearly ahead," said David Redlawsk, the poll's director and an associate professor of political science at the University of Iowa.

Even if the data points aren't related and the "nearly certain" group does show Edwards ahead, any assumption that the (guesswork) "nearly certain" demographic is a more accurate predictor of caucus attendance than the "voted last time" demographic is questionable, given the known shaky nature of pre-caucus polling.  So the question is still put to the "clearly" part of the quote.  There's not much clear about conflicting data.  


by Trickster on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 01:02:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards "moves clearly ahead" (none / 0)

Unless, of course, you count people who won't be voting.


by DrFrankLives on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:33:41 AM EST

Re: University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll: Obama and Huc (none / 0)

I'm not concerned about Huckabee.  Insurgent candidates simply don't get the nomination on the Republican side.  That's just not how those guys operate.

He does have the profile, though, of someone who could do well in Iowa, kind of like Pat Robertson in 1988.

The reason Bush was a good candidate is because he represented a fusion between the party establishment and the evangelical voters in the base.  From the outside, Huckabee looks the same, but he can only bring the latter to the table.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:35:23 AM EST

Re: University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll: Obama and Huc (none / 0)

right, and the supplysiders econo cons don't like him. He doesn't have a chance.

It'll be Romney or Thompson.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Civil Rights Leader John Lewis (none / 0)

THOMPSON?  Fast fading grandpa who has quickly established a reputation of being a somewhat lazy and unprepared campaigner and who has dropped like a rock since declaring?  Very doubtful.  At this point this one is probably between Giuliani and Romney.


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree (none / 0)

Repub voters don't yet know Rudy's postions, but they will.

Ronney will win Iowa and New Hampshire. Thompson will win South Carolina, and that will be the race.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:46:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

Giuliani is ahead in Nevada and Michigan, both states that go to the polls before SC.  Giuliani is also strongly ahead in Florida.   Giuliani and Thompson are even in SC, with Giuliani holding a very slight lead, but if Giuliani wins either Nevada or Michigan (or both) he will probably gain a nominal advantage in SC over Thompson.  

I think the race will be between Romney and Giuliani in the end.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:00:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

If Romney does win Iowa and New Hampshire look for him to ride the momentum into wins in Nevada and Michigan where in both states he has distinct advantages over the field (religion in NV, family roots in MI). Then he will come up against the usual GOP firewall in SC and will probably lose to Huckabee if he has done, as is looking likely, well enough in Iowa to better expectations. I think Thompson and McCain will be out by then. That leaves Giuliani screwed before he even gets to Florida. Just my take as things stand but obviously the situation can change between now and then.


by conspiracy on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:21:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

Are you saying nothing matters except South Carolina?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:02:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Of course not (none / 0)

But South Carolina is where social conservatives, to whom Rudy and Romney are unacceptable, make their stand.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:38:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course not (none / 0)

I've always thought of South Carolina as the place where the party establishment makes its stand.

I think Republican voters in Iowa offer a pretty good representation of where the social conservatives stand.  But Huckabee has no insider status, which is why I expect him to do well in Iowa but not South Carolina.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:10:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course not (none / 0)

Yes, that too. I see Fred Thompson as the candidate most likely to be the establishment fave, like Bush was.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Of course not (none / 0)

Dont count out McCain. If he can pull an upset in New Hampshire, he would be very much alive.


by AC4508 on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:16:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thompson has no shot in hell (none / 0)

of winning this race.  It's looking more and more like Giuliani will win.  I don't think Romney will win.  He has a huge credibility issue, as much as he is trying to buy his spot.


by bookgrl on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:05:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

I'll gladly put money down on the proposition that Fred won't win the SC primary.


by RT on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:06:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't Count Huckabee Out Yet (none / 0)

I agree that Fred has no chance, but I think Romney, Giuliani, and Huckabee all have a shot. Since Romney is more acceptable than Giuliani to the evangelical leaders, and more acceptable than Huckabee to business interests, and has more money to spend than anyone else, I still think he's the most likely to win the nomination.


by HatchInBrooklyn on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:48:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's weird (none / 0)

to me that everyone is discounting Fred's chances. Sure, he's gotten to a bad start but now his expecations are where he wants them to be.

He's still the only candidate in the race acceptable to both the economic and social conservatives.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:07:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's weird (none / 0)

Nobody discounts Fred's or Huckabee's chances, but you seem to overstate SC, the only state where Thompson is very competetive in at this point. There are another 5 states to consider in the early going.  Thompson is not likely to place well in NH, he does not look with much pulse in NV and MI, and Giuliani is very strong in Florida (in a way building a mini-firewall in this state.)


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:13:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I forgot (none / 0)

about Florida.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:25:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll: Obama and Huc (none / 0)

He's more like a mesh between Alexander in '96 and Robertson in '88. If the GOP is going by their playbook, McCain would be their nominee. Things don't appear normal.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

pollster (none / 0)

does't like the methodology: http://www.pollster.com/blogs/new_ia_pol l_tomorrowbut_a_caut.php

And 5.5 MOE? Come on.

Nobody know anything. The only reason polls matter are to the extent that they affect the race.

Still, if Edwards is close and he hasn't gone up on TV yet. Watch out.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:40:52 AM EST

Re: pollster (none / 0)

I trust the campaign to know what they a doing after the experience of four years ago. On the Repub side it is looking more and more like a Romney/Huckabee ticket.


by conspiracy on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:49:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: pollster (none / 0)

For good reason. The methodology on this poll is loose at best. I'd chalk this up as an outlier pretty much across the board; about as accurate as polling the people sitting around you in the bar as an indicator.

Now, one thing that does seem to reflect other polls is that Obama's finally managed to get some traction out of his money, and has arrested his slow decay in the polls. At this point, I'd say you'll see him hard in Iowa to try and maintain a strong second place finish at worst to stabilize himself and give his campaign a chance to launch past Clinton in the other primaries.


by dexf on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:51:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Trippi's Ads (none / 0)

Keep in mind that Trippi's TV ads for Dean didn't do him much good in 2004. I'm just sayin'.


by HatchInBrooklyn on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:53:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trippi's Ads (none / 0)

Its a good point to keep in mind that the quality of the ads matters as much as the quantity. Just for the sake of accuracy, two clarifications -- the ads his firm did began in August, and Dean didn't move ahead in Iowa until after the end of October, so those ads can be as much credited for the rise as for the fall. Second, the point that is rarely remembered about 04 is that Kerry, after having built his organization early, then injected $6m into Iowa in the final 6 weeks.

Organizing early and advertising in a late surge is a much smarter strategy than advertising early and putting money in late for field organization.


by desmoulins on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:20:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trippi's Ads (none / 0)

advertising early and putting money in late for field organization

Hillary's strategy, in a nutshell?

by HatchInBrooklyn on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:35:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

I believe over 50% of Iowa caucus goers in 2004 had never attended a caucus before (wasn't the number 55%?)  We can probably expect close to the same number of "fresh" caucus goers again, especially given how high the profile of the top-tier candidates on the Democratic side is this time around.  This poll reflects that.

 What is also important is to look at trendlines within a certain poll methodology.  The U of I poll used the same methodology last time around,  and within this methodology Edwards has lost 6% of support, Richardson lost 2%. The "don't know" share dropped by almost 6%.  Clinton and Obama picked all of those negative movements up, which can't be a welcomed development to the Edwards team.      


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:51:58 AM EST

flawed methodology (none / 0)

is flawed methodology, rendering any apparent trends meaningless.

If I went out in to the middle of a parking lot in Des Moines and yelled for people to me who they supported and then did it again a month later, the "trend" wouldn't matter.


by david mizner on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:58:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: flawed methodology (none / 0)

This isn't quite like that.  I don't necessarily like the way the question is asked in the first place (basically leaving the respondent to fill in a blank for the name,) but keep in mind that previously Edwards (due to his high Iowa profile) came out ahead strongly when that methodology was used.  Now he has lost mindshare.

As always, however, I advocate strongly to go with polling aggregates as the best current meter of where a race is at the moment:

http://www.pollster.com/08-IA-Dem-Pres-P rimary.php


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:06:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no tv advertising (none / 0)

Lost mindshare? Well, all the others have been up on tv, and Edwards has not.

In the coming weeks he will be on tv and radio and should be able to improve his "mindshare."

But no doubt, the heavy expectations now rest on Hillary.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:52:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no tv advertising (none / 0)

I don't disagree that TV advertising is a big part of the picture here.  But doesn't that put Edwards even more at a disadvantage moving forward, as he is heavily restricted in how much he is allowed to spend on advertising in the state?

It seems with the fact that Edwards will probably be outspent by 8 to 1 or 10 to 1 in total Iowa advertising, the hope should be that TV advertising has little to no effect on voter preferences.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:02:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

most candidates have gotten a bump (none / 0)

when the went up on the air in Iowa. Even Dean when he went up four years ago.

After four or six months of continuous tv ads, though, there are diminishing returns.

Edwards is the only candidate on the Dem side who hasn't done significant advertising on tv.

Even with the restrictions, in this inexpensive state he will be able to afford quite a lot on tv and radio just when undecideds are starting to make up their minds.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

Getting over 40% of new caucus attendees is crucial to the Obama strategy. If you're project is correct, he'll likely win.


by desmoulins on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:21:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

 Sure, it is crucial to Obama, but we have seen movements away from Obama with "fresh voters," particularly in the youth vote (last IA poll that measured for age demo had it 40% Clinton to 28% Obama.)

I agree with you upthread that Iowa is probably Clinton's to lose at this point.  She looks to be ahead in the state.  Add increased spending and more boots on the ground, and she'll probably move further ahead.  Edwards is having a tough hoe, as his Iowa trendline shows.  Note: pollster.com discounts this particular poll, their trendlines are without this particular poll added in.


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's to lose (none / 0)

That is mis-leading. It means that she has an over whelming lead, which clearly is not the case.

The MOE: IS 5.5% AND UN-DECIDED'S : 8.9%

tHIS IS A 3 WAY TIE.

Organization and 2nd choices are very key in winning Iowa with such a close race.

I see Clinton is advertising for staff in Washington DC for Iowa. I can see this working real well for Clinton. Inside Dc will relate real well to Iowan's.


by BDM on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:44:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton's to lose (none / 0)

Where do you see "overwhelming lead", either implied or directly written?  

Clinton has a lead, but it is clearly not overwhelming.  However, she has achieved that lead while visiting Iowa less then Edwards and Obama, spending a lot less money than Obama, having less boots on the ground in the state.  All 3 of those items are changing with increased visits, more spending on TV ads, and more hires.  It seems likely to assume that the added punch that comes with each of these 3 additions will have a positive effect.

BTW, you can't make a credible point that it is truly a 3-way tie.  If you are going to argue with MoE, you also have to look at the other side of that coin, that Hillary COULD conceivably be ahead by much higher margins, double-digits.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there won't be as many newcomers this year (none / 0)

2004 was the first hotly contested caucus in 16 years. No one competed in Iowa in 1992 and 1996, and Bradley made an extremely half-hearted effort in 2000.

Naturally, huge numbers of voters came of age or moved to Iowa between 1988 and 2004.

I don't expect nearly as many newcomers this time. Especially since the scheduling right after New Year's is terrible.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:50:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

GOP: same thing happening in NH (none / 0)

If you go to RCP, Romney's September leads over Rudy looked like this:

5,7,3,1,3,4.

In October, they looked like this:

8,6,10,9.

And same with Huckabee: in October, he's polling about 8%, right up there with Grandpa Fred.  In another few weeks, he'll be solidly in fourth in NH, ready to move up after a second or third place finish in Iowa.


by RT on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:04:50 AM EST

Has Hillary Stalled (none / 0)

The data is far from conclusive - but you can Hillary's surge - and it was that - has been stopped.  Three pieces of evidence:

1.  This Iowa poll - which once again shows her below 30.  

  1.  The last NH poll, which showed her at 38, below 40 for the first time since in a while.  In addition, her lead over Obama was +16, the first in several polls showing her lead under 20.
  2.  The foxnews national poll - which showed her down 8 and the most recent other national polls that show her under 50.

This is very scattered data - and I would caution against reading too much here: but the next few polls bear watching.

It also looks pretty clear that Obama has some forward momentum in Iowa.


by fladem on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 11:46:39 AM EST

What I dislike the most about this (2.00 / 1)

Other than flawed methodology concerning likely caucus-goers, is the insanely low number of undecided. 8.9%? Yeah right. At least 40% of caucus-goers haven't made up their mind and will change in the future. What pollsters should do is gauge "strong support" of candidates and then add leaners. That would paint a very healthy picture for us.


by KainIIIC on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:34:51 PM EST

Re: What I dislike the most about this (none / 0)

Bitter opposition to Huckabie in the GOP especially among racists such Phyllis "the life of a fetus is more important than the life of a baby outside the womb" Schaffly...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs .dll/article?AID=/20071029/NATION/110290 047/1001


by Boilermaker on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll (none / 0)

The poll is shit.

Why post about crappy polls? Hell, even "good" polls are pretty crappy at this stage.


by Big Tent Democrat on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:36:00 PM EST

Lying With Statistics (none / 0)

Setting aside issues about the question asked, I think it is flatly dishonest to report any poll to the tenth of a percent when the MoE is 5.5%.  One of the key ways to mislead with numbers is to report with precision when there is none.  That's really an issue of the story about the poll, rather than about the poll itself, but it drives me crazy when I see this kind of stuff.  


John McCain Opposed Expanded GI Bill
by hilltopper on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:37:54 PM EST

Re: Lying With Statistics (none / 0)

I agree here. It's just laughable to report a poll rounded to one tenth when the total sample is only 300+


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: University of Iowa Hawkeye Poll: Obama and Huc (none / 0)

Nouveau Riche University had similar polls, but I think the numbers were a little bit different, can't explain why.


by tiberiu on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 02:02:29 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.