Running Against Hillary

How old is this getting?

"I'm often asked, `Do you think you can win, particularly against Hillary?,'" [Mike Huckabee] said. "Folks, may I suggest to you I've been battling against the headwinds of Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton's political machine in Arkansas more than anybody else running for president. I didn't just win once, not twice, not three times, but four times in a statewide election against the Clinton political machine. Bill Clinton and Hillary campaigned against me every time I ever ran, and I won and they didn't."

And...

Giuliani opened with a quote Clinton had given to the Des Moines Register, in which she said -- as she has done in the past -- that she would send envoys abroad the day after she was elected president." The day after I'm elected, I'm going to be asking distinguished Americans of both political parties to travel around the world on my behalf with a very simple message to the governments and the people alike: The era of cowboy diplomacy is over."

But quoting an expert from that Des Moines Register article, Giuliani said that Clinton's action would seriously undermine the authority of the sitting president of the United States and possibly set a dangerous precedent. "The danger is that you have two presidents conducting foreign policy, one with all the power and no moral authority, and one with no power," he said, quoting James Lindsay, director of the Robert S. Strauss Center for International Security and Law at the University of Texas at Austin. "Presidents-elect should not exercise their authority before they have it."

It's no secret that the Republican presidential candidates have been running against Hillary Clinton for months now, preferring to cast her as their presumed 2008 opponent both to rally the base and to make the case that they're best prepared to battle her (an electability argument works a lot better if you define who you're going up against.)

But this strategy may just be even more insidious. As Digby sees it, the Republicans aren't merely casting Clinton as the 2008 Democratic nominee, they're also running against her as though she's the incumbent, making the Republicans, as bizarre as it sounds, the agents of change.

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but George W. Bush is being disappeared from the presidential campaign and everyone's running against incumbent Hillary Clinton. Subtly, but relentlessly, the public psyche is being prepared to deny Junior ever existed. And it could work. For many different reasons, most Americans want nothing more than to forget George W. Bush was ever president. So, we see a very odd subliminal narrative taking shape in which the blame for the nation's failures of the last seven years is being shifted to Clinton (and the "do-nothing" Democratic congress) as if the Codpiece hasn't been running things since 2000. [...]

It's an interesting phenomenon and one for which I hope the Democratic strategists are prepared. Their underlying theme seems to be, "If you want change, vote Republican!"

Indeed, unlike on the GOP side, the Democratic nomination fight has been largely free of any discussion of the Republican candidates. I'm not sure why this is. Is it the fear that railing against them legitimizes them? Clearly the Democrats would prefer to wait until the nominees are determined before wasting precious time attacking candidates who may not even be around next fall, but as Digby reminds us, there is a benefit to establishing a narrative about the opposing party early. As I've written before, I wish Democrats would do more to tie all of the GOP candidates to Bush, making the case that a vote for any of them would be akin to voting for Bush's third term. Instead, the Republicans are pretending Bush doesn't exist and, if we're not careful they just may get voters, on some strange subconscious level, to believe it.



Display:


Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

maybe we shouldn't nominate Hillary then! In GE matchup polls Hillary does ok because she maxes out with dems who would eventually vote for our nominee any way, remember when Gore was down 15 points to Bush in 2000? gore was getting 70's from dems and it was just a matter of time before they moved from undecided. The problem is the "change vote" is gone if Hillary is our candidate, then you throw in the fact that 40-45% of the country hates her like the plague, it is a dislike so strong it's scary. she literally is a morally and poltically bankrupt party's last best hope and we are playing into thier hands.


Obama! because 51% isn't enough!
by nevadadem on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 10:58:38 PM EST

BINGO! (none / 0)

See how many of are not in favor of Hillary now that we're looking at it seriously?

Clinton lost her chance when she tried pulling the same shit that Lieberman did -doing it without the real heart of the party behind her.
She's done -and this AWESOME new CBS poll proves it:
AL GORE HAS SURGED DRAMATICALLY AND IS WITHIN 5 POINTS OF HILLARY!
Hillary 37, Gore 32, Obama 17.

http://pundits.thehill.com/2007/10/26/oi l-soars-fires-rage-war-looms-hillary-man euvers-gore-surges-in-cbs-poll/

Obama would be wonderful teamed up with Gore as a VP, but this country is still too damn bigoted to accept and elect him President right out of the inexperienced blue.

And a Gore/Obama ticket? My God what a team!
The voters would run screaming with joy to the polls in record numbers.


Dedicated to a Clean and Lean Dean Powered Machine!
by hazmaq on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:31:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BINGO! (none / 0)

"She's done -and this AWESOME new CBS poll proves it:"

Laughable.  Does this stuff substitute for substantive comment in Obama-land these days?  Up is down, red is really blue, yes, Virginia, the Earth is really flat.  

We've seen these bold proclamations that "She's done" for a very long time, and it never materialized.  The opposite occured, actually.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Yeah, 'cause Hillary is really ushering in big change.


by NewNoir on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 10:59:58 PM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Thats the real answer.  They know that Hillary will help the middle class that the Republicans are trying so hard to destroy.  Its odd that they are so afraid of Hillary they are starting their attacks early.  But then they are the party of fear and smear.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:20:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

the fact is no one energizes conservatives... (none / 0)

like hillary clinton.  nominating her is like throwing chum in the water.  and it's the middle class that is afraid of her, when her negatives go into the historic range...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:26:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Republicans going after the Clintons?..ya don't say?  But really i'm sure that 95% of Americans know that the repugs have been in the White House for the last 8 years.  Unless they want to argue about the 8 years the Clintons were in the WH, which i'm all for.


by Justify My Vote on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 11:04:35 PM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Only the Republicans could pretend that the last 8 years never happened and that the Iraq war is all Clinton's fault.  Right let them argue about 8 years of peace and prosperity when consumer confidence was at an all time high.  Let them argue about the budget surplus and the low unemployment.  yeah ---


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:24:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

any good candidate can pretend they aren't... (none / 0)

responsible.  the fact that you think this election will be waged on what bill clinton did shows how little you understand electoral politics or republicans...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:27:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

Simple reason for this Todd; Hillary does not mention the GOPers because she wants to hold her fire for the general, while our "new politics" Obama slimes her and Johnny Boy is in his own league of hypocrisy, with his 400 dollar haircuts and other embarrassing episodes.


by American1989 on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 11:17:37 PM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

Hillary doesn't have to attack anyone she can concentrate on the issues.  Obama and Edwards should be careful attacking a woman -- it doesn't go down well with the American people.  Especially the knee-capping phrase--with that phrase Obama has treated these primary contests like a rumble between the sharks and the bloods.  Dumb move on his part.  


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:27:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

Obama posters using the GOP candidates' comments to make a case against Hillary?   Laughable and predictable.  Just be sure to settle beforehand who sleeps on what side of the bed.


by georgep on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 11:20:15 PM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

What happened to Obama's "can't we all get along campaign" I guess now that he's losing his real personality is coming out.  


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:30:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i haven't seen that quote,,, (none / 0)

when did barack say that???


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

this is a brilliant comment and is a real danger for the Dems. you're precisely right that the GOP will try to make the Dems -- Hillary or whomever as well as the Congressional leadership --- the representatives of the status quo, and run against that.

it's really key to tie the GOP to Bush and his record which all their candidates have supported.


by CalDem on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 11:37:25 PM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 2)

That is exactly the problem with the track chosen by Obama and Edwards to fixate their barbs and shots exclusively on Hillary Clinton.  It is not effective in terms of the nomination race, but it enables the GOP candidates to do their bashing unencumbered (without strong blowback from all Democratic candidates) and they can say that they are putting up a united front, and want to get down to business, while all the Democratic candidates do is bicker, opening up the larger narrative that that is what we have always done.

The GOP brand is badly damaged, so they don't have a lot of gain here, but it is something we need to focus more on.  Clinton has been pretty good at giving back to Giuliani, but we need Edwards and Obama, and our other candidates, to create an anti-GOP narrative, talk about the candidates and the Bush connection.   This incessant "going after" our party's frontrunner at the expense of missed opportunities to deal with the GOP candidates and the GOP in general is not only ineffective, it also is a disservice to the party.


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:04:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

i don't blame Edwards or Obama. Obama's been very classy, and while Edwards has been harsh, they're both running to win, so that's to be expected. I do think some of the Hillary bashing by their devotees (again, mostly the Edwards devotees) is not only way over the top, but does in fact reinforce the truthiness of Republican talking points, and so is unfortunate on that level. Particularly given that when the emotions of the primaries are over, I suspect that virtually all Dems will support our nominee.


by CalDem on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:34:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

I don't expect otherwise. It is just that right now would be a good time to remind voters who it is we are all fighting against, and how closely aligned every one of those candidates (excecting Ron Paul) is to George Bush.   There was a time when candidates from the same side would speak up for a fellow candidate attacked by a GOP candidate.   For instance, McCain's smear that Democrats in the 60s were all a bunch of hippies with no care in the world, and that we are still the same today, went unanswered from any Democratic candidate because it came as part of a Hillary-attack ad.   In a different timeframe there would have been some pushback against that idea.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

You are so right.  Its easy to tie the GOP candidates to Bush because they have and still are marching in lock step with him.  The media is the problem -- they want the Republican agenda so the Repubs are always right and the Democrats are the not-quite-good-enough-to-govern party.  


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:33:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

the GOP will try to make the Dems -- Hillary or whomever as well as the Congressional leadership --- the representatives of the status quo, and run against that.

Well, in Hillary's case it's kind of true, since she voted for the Iraq War (the #1 issue today, by a wide margin) and supported it for years.


by Will Graham on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:35:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

You are right.  it's exactly how Sarkozy was able to win in France.  He was a part of the despised former government yet campaigned like he was the agent of change.  Democrats ignore this at their peril.


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:13:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

I agree you don't go after an individual republican on the other side when you have Bush that can represent them all.


by Justify My Vote on Sun Oct 28, 2007 at 11:37:38 PM EST

Hillary as Goldstein (none / 0)

The Repugs know that hate and fear, fear and hate, are all they have left.  

Look for the Heathers to start blasting away at us no matter who the candidate is in 2008.

Look for them to start all but borrowing cartoon posters from when Chile and Argentina's conservatives were desperately trying to convince people of how bad a left-reform government would be to elect into office.

Hell, at this rate, look for the Pope to move higher up the ladder toward sainthood any Republicans that suffered at the hands of Democrats or big government, a la their present spat with the Socialist government of Spain.

I have no great love of Hillary, but no matter who we put up at the end of the day, they will be vilified.

And no matter who we put up at the end of the day for Congress, it's up to you and I doorbelling and phoning to make sure they get in spite of whoever is getting blasted at the top of the ticket.

My two bits...


by palamedes on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:04:05 AM EST

Re: Hillary as Goldstein (none / 0)

Check out the agenda -- possible war with Iran.  Republicans believe that they can convince Americans to once again vote for them when it comes to safety and security in time of war.  No matter that they started the war in the first place and its a fiasco.  That is their only issue and as long as they keep the focus on war then the Democrats are the mommy party who concentrate on healthcare, jobs and education. This is the only reason that congressional Repubs have stuck with Bush (24%). If he starts another war they have an issue to run on.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:39:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary as Goldstein (none / 0)

If Cheney and Bush start a war with Iran, I really don't know what will happen.

But if I had to guess, I suspect there would suddenly be some combination of attempts by the Feds to selectively and harshly suppress obvious opposition such as MoveOn or attempts to close down Federal facilities that directly interface with the public, and attempts to kill Federal officials by individuals that no longer believe that the Democratic Party will stand up to the administration - not so much Bush and Cheney as much as anyone seen as abetting the war in a big way, but not exactly a big name.

If the latter sounds nuts, I'd advise you to read about what groups like the Weather Underground were doing and wanting to do between 1969 through 1971.  And you should note that some of what was considered and acted upon was in response to the levels of warfare that took place in 1969 and 1970, which were some of the more destructive years of the war in Vietnam.  One can make an analogy with the increased violence of the recent "surge" (as well as with the decreased level of violence when British and American troops are removed from specific parts of Iraq).

I think the level of frustration in this country is much higher now than it was then, and I think the immediate effects of starting a war with Iran would bring such anger to the surface in the form of violent acts by both sides.  And I don't think fear of giving the Bush administration a casus belli to further make the Constitution a sad joke would stop individuals determined to strike at this administration at that point.

My two bits...


by palamedes on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:39:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary as Goldstein (none / 0)

That's more than two bits, my friend.  It's not a trivial subject and rarely remembered.  But don't forget what Saul Alinsky said of the SDS at the height of their ascendancy, such as it was, "...they couldn't organise a Sunday School picnic."  Having said that one of the biggest recent mass detentions in US history has gotta' be  the May Day demonstration in DC in 1971, from memory.  The friggin' Abraham Lincon Brigade veterans were there with a Hell's Angels motorcycle escort.  Crowd estimates will never be known but it was in the hundreds of thousands.  Over 10,000 spent a day or so in DC jails crammed to overflowing for the occasion.  I seem to remember a stadium used as a 'laager.'

For some reason that level of activism just doesn't seem to be on the agenda these days.  Imagine the streets outside the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago.  Maybe it's the  volunteer army but I'm not so sure.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 04:37:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fear is the destroyer... (none / 0)

I think a lot of the public inaction is due to fear of retaliation, especially with respect to loss of their job.  A secondary fear is that some right wing bully, especially some radio personality or some government official, will intimidate them or worse into leaving their communities in which they live.

And frankly, because we have a volunteer military, it's easier to tell your teenager "You are not going, and that's that."  I know a couple of parents that had kids that were very determined to serve, who pulled strings like nobody's business to get one into Korea and other into the Coast Guard, respectively.

Most people right now just keep their heads down.  But I dunno how much longer that will last...


by palamedes on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 03:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fear is the destroyer... (none / 0)

Public protest is unfashionable and the moral support for it has been somehow erased from our cultural list of options.  It would take a lot to change it.  It isn't nearly as safe, 'morally' and legally, to be a non-violent political protester against the power which rules the US today as it was in the Viet-Nam era.  We would be terrorists.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 04:33:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

So, what would happen if Hillary wasn't nominated?  Would the GOP just implode so completely that there would be nothing but a black hole left?

I think that Hillary will do better than most give her credit for... Heck, she's won me over... and that's quite a feat!  I despised her!  But, she's run such an incredibly competent and successful campaign, how can I not be charmed by that?

She has nowhere to go but up....

Thanks,

Mike


by lordmikethegreat on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:36:34 AM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Were you just as charmed by the 'competent campaigns' of Ronald Reagan?


by John Poet on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:56:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

Having seen her in person 3 times I can say she is a real charmer. I was for Edwards in the beginning but the campaign was so downbeat.  I went to see her and she made me feel like we could fix this mess and feel good again.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:41:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

This is the inevitable outcome of Hillary's quasi-incumbancy run, and was noted at the time she shifted her campaign to that perception.  I hope she knows what she is doing.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:36:59 AM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Outside of Bill getting some nookey which didn't kill anyone -- what was wrong with the Clinton administration?  Right now Bill Clinton is at 63% popularity, Bush is at 24%.  We lost an American city with Bush in office.  No other 20th century president can claim that honor.  I will be glad to have another Clinton in office.  I would like some peace and prosperity.  It would be good to take care of Americans for a change.  In 10 years the war in Iraq will cost 2 Trillion for what??? We could be developing alternative energy instead.  I would like to know that our Seniors will be taken care of.  I am sick and tired of being tired.  


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:57:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Nothing.  But what an inopportune time to run as the nostalgia candidate with a quasi-incumbent theme.  And just for the primary, really.  She's having trouble shifting gears and the damage has been apparently done.  She and her staff must have been aware of the risks, so, as I said, I hope she knows what she's doing.  I hope her micro-polling database is telling her stuff we ain't seeing 'cuz so far it's an absolute gift to the Republicans.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:09:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

The polling shows that people want Hillary because she can bring the best people from her husband's administration on board and Bill Clinton, who is still so popular in the rest of the world will make it easier to transition back to a foreign policy which includes diplomacy
again.

If you're not comfortable with this -- neither are the Republicans who are terrified of Clinton and are starting their attack ads against her now.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

obviously, you mean democrats when you say,, (none / 0)

people.  you'd be hard pressed to show that the general population yearns for a return of "the best best people from her husband's administration"...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:41:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: obviously, you mean democrats when you say,, (none / 0)

Look at the polls because they show that people want the Clinton's to fix this mess.  What would your solution be -- another Republican in power to finish us off.  Republicans hate government because they cannot govern.  Put a Democrat in power and the economy is better --


by changingroom on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 12:46:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

would you point me to the polls that say we want.. (none / 0)

the clintons to "fix this mess" please.  i must have missed them...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 10:50:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I would vote for a three-legged blind dog (none / 0)

before I would vote for Hillary.

Reason is, the three-legged blind dog could likely decide whether he was FOR war, or against it.


by John Poet on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:55:05 AM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Second thoughts for Clinton are coming along I think. They are doubling down in Iowa.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:01:08 AM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Iowa is having a caucus -- you can't know whats going to happen in Iowa until the day of the caucus.  It depends who shows up.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 01:59:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What does that mean? (none / 0)

She started out far behind in Iowa.  Iowa's never so much as elected a woman congressperson.  It's always been a tough sell in Iowa, so I'm not sure what you mean.  Also, many people think her adding staff is because she thinks she might possibly win it, not the other way around.


by bookgrl on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 09:32:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does that mean? (none / 0)

Hillary has momentum on her side.  I think your exactly right.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:46:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

If the Republicans want to run against Hillary like they really seem to, I think it's because they KNOW they have the ammo to devastate her. I think they're playing the Dems with some reverse psychology.

Look, my opinion, Hillary is the WORST choice you guys could possibly make. As an indie voter with liberal leanings on some issues and a preference for  change so strong I'll vote for ANYONE other than Hillary, I think I have a good view from the outside here. You are walking right into their spider we. You have a few really smart, great candidates. Edwards is great for the working guy. Obama rings out change on several levels.  Even the Republicans have a refreshing candidate in Ron Paul.

Hillary is NOT refreshing. Hillary is exactly what you hate about the Bush Junior...a win at all costs, flip-flopping, secretive, hawk,riding on the coat tails of a former president.

28 years of Bush and Clinton. When is enough enough? Are you people that unimaginative?


by damianmann on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 02:24:47 AM EST

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

" Hillary is exactly what you hate about the Bush Junior...a win at all costs, flip-flopping, secretive, hawk,riding on the coat tails of a former president. "

- Thats not what we " hate " about George Bush .

George Bush is not a secretive hawk , infact he is an out in the open neo con and most people will say he doesn't flip flop even in the face of facts and reality.

However thanks for checking in , you sound like the typical I don't want Clinton individual.

I would classify myself as very close to being an independent and Hillary Clinton is about the only democrat I'll feel really comfortable having in the white house and Joe Biden. Thats just me personally and I don't claim to speak for anyone else .

"I think I have a good view from the outside here "

- Thats funny , this isn't rocket science you know . I think most people are smart enough to  analyze situations and make up their minds about things without help from someone who " supposedly " has a good view from the " outside ".( wherever that is ).    


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 05:32:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (2.00 / 1)

I would have loved Gore or Kerry in office.  But they couldn't seem to WIN.  Candidates can make all the campaign promises they want about "great change," but if they can't win, it means nothing.  If I didn't think Edwards or Obama would fall completely apart in the General Election, I would be more apt to support them.  I have little doubt Rudy would beat them.  As crazy as he is, voters will be worried about our safety, and the others aren't convincing at all in that regard and that will be a fatal flaw.


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 06:07:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Running Against Hillary (none / 0)

Republicans are terrified of a Clinton Presidency as it will mean the focus goes back on the American people.  Thats why they are starting their attack ads now.  


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:47:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i predicted that republicans would employ the... (2.00 / 1)

sarkozy strategy awhile ago.  i remember being roundly criticized for this (especially from conventionally minded thinkers like georgep).  but it was an obvious strategy to win.

doubly, hillary makes it easy.  she is, after all, running as a pseudo-incumbent!  her tact to win the democratic nomination makes her easier to run against by republicans.

furthermore, painting hillary as the incumbent, as the agent for the status quo, feeds the critique that hillary represents a long line of family politics in the white house -- bush > clinton > bush > clinton.  it's the perfect wedge.

democrats know this.  democrats just choose to ignore this.  of course republicans will run as the agents of change.  american voters want change.  they almost have to represent themselves that way.  republicans have learned how to win in almost any political environment, and they don't stand still just because we want them to...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 07:19:40 AM EST

Re: (none / 0)

You are fudging the truth quite a bit again, bored now.  When have I ever claimed that the GOP won't TRY to attack Hillary Clinton?  Fabrication does not substitute for truth.  It cheapens any point you are trying to make and puts a veil of suspicion over all of it.  

As for the GOP now focusing on Clinton whereas before they were targetting mostly Edwards and Obama:

In absence of plans and ideas of their own, that is pretty much all the GOPers can do, and it shows only that Hillary has moved into a position in which she is seen as the certain nominee for the Democratic party.  And to call it a WINNING strategy?  Quite the stretch.   You don't even try to be impartial anymore, bored now.  I realize that you are not really a Democrat, but you should at least wait a bit before giving it all to the GOP already.  They look indeed already desperate to me.  But, we shall see who comes out WINNING in the end.  No point already making the GOP into the big winner here a year before the GE, try as you might.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:00:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

The Republicans have nothing left but to hang on to Bush's coattails in the hopes of a new war so they can sound strong.  I would like them to try to compete with Hillary on domestic issues--they can't.


by changingroom on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 12:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

liar... (none / 0)

i said absolutely nothing about you claiming that "he GOP won't TRY to attack Hillary."  and you, being the rhetorically dishonest person that you are, again try to change an opponent's claim so that you can feel like you've rebutted it.

now, if you want to try to address any of the points i made above, feel free.

as for your cheap shot about whether i am a democrat, i'm a lot more involved in the democratic party than you are.  while i suspect you meant to imply that i'm not a good democrat because i don't support hillary, it doesn't really matter.  you were just attacking a poster because you don't like what they say.

again...


"We did not come to fear the future. We came here to shape it." - President Obama, Sept 9, 2009
by bored now on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 03:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i predicted that republicans would employ the. (none / 0)

You are right ... somewhere in the RNC .. someone was watching Sarkozy's victory .. it's the only hope they have


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 10:27:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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