Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote?

What's worse than saying you think homosexuality is a choice?

This:

Barack Obama is drawing fire for including Donnie McClurkin, a Grammy-winning gospel singer who has crusaded against homosexuality, on a concert and political tour that the Democratic presidential candidate will launch in South Carolina later this week.

Wikipedia elaborates on what makes McClurkin so offensive:

He states that homosexuality is a spiritual issue, from which one can be delivered from by the power and grace of God. In his book, Eternal Victim, Eternal Victor (ISBN 1-56229-162-9), he writes: "The abnormal use of my sexuality continued until I came to realize that I was broken and that homosexuality was not God's intention... for my masculinity."[6] He then describes himself as going through a process by which he became "a saved and sanctified man".

A firestorm has been growing steadily over the past few days. At HuffPo this weekend, political analyst and author Earl Ofari Hutchinson called on Obama to "cancel and repudiate" the gospel tour and Truth Wins Out has called on Senator Obama to "distance himself" from McClurkin. To try and mitigate some of the fall-out, Obama has released this statement, which denounces McClurkin but stops short of removing him from the tour:

"I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

Chicago Tribune's The Swamp does a good job of explaining the tightrope Obama is walking and why it's politically perilous both to keep McClurkin on the tour and to let him go:

One gay activist involved with the Obama campaign said the situation puts the candidate in a bind, since he risks offending evangelicals in South Carolina if he cancels McClurkin's appearance but could alienate gay supporters if the performance proceeds as planned.

"This story is quickly turning into a disaster for Barack," said the supporter who is active on gay and lesbian issues. "He's screwed if he goes through with the trip with Donnie McClurkin....But he's also screwed in South Carolina if he dumps McClurkin. I hope that the staffer who set this up has already been fired."

Even so, the question remains whether this statement will be enough to pacify those in the gay community for whom this could be a dealbreaker. John Aravosis for one is not even close to being satisfied by the statement.

Obama's outreach to the black evangelical community is admirable and could reap benefits for the Democratic Party in the long-run but this conflict in values that has emerged between Obama's own base and those of this prominent figure whose base Obama is courting can't have come as a shock to the campaign. The paradox of running a campaign based on inclusion is that you're more than likely going to alienate somebody at some point based on who you're including, unless of course you're experienced and skilled enough to avoid those landmines. And I have to say, whether or not you feel the inclusion of McClurkin in this fundraiser for Obama is a deal breaker, Obama's inability to avoid this foreseeable bump in the road at the very least contributes to the growing crisis in confidence people seem to be feeling about Obama lately (see the results of the latest DailyKos straw poll for the most recent evidence of this.)



Display:


Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

The MSM is starting to pick up this story.
AP just filed the following report...


WASHINGTON (AP) - A gay rights group on Monday urged Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama to cut ties with a gospel singer who they say spreads false information about gays and lesbians.
Donnie McClurkin is among several gospel singers scheduled to raise money for the Illinois senator at a concert in South Carolina this weekend.

McClurkin has drawn attention from gay rights activists for his views on homosexuality.

"I don't believe that it is the intention of God," McClurkin said Monday in a telephone interview.

McClurkin said he does not believe in discriminating against homosexuals. "What people do in their bedrooms and who they are as human beings are two different things," he said.

Obama's campaign did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

"We strongly urge Obama to part ways with this divisive preacher who is clearly singing a different tune than the stated message of the campaign," Wayne Besen, executive director of Truth Wins Out, said in a statement.

At a forum on gay issues in August, Obama argued that civil unions for same-sex couples wouldn't be a "lesser thing" than marriage. Obama belongs to the United Church of Christ, which supports gay marriage, but Obama has yet to go that far.

In a telephone interview Monday, Besen said he admired Obama, but wasn't ready to endorse him, especially considering McClurkin taking part in the campaign's "Embrace the Change" concert tour.

"I think he'd be a great president. But I think it's going to drive away support from people who are on the fence such as myself," Besen said.

McClurkin, a Grammy Award winner, performed at the Republican National Convention in 2004.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:12:07 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

One poster here reminded me that apparently Bill Clinton also met with this person- is this true?


by bruh21 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:16:26 PM EST

Yeah - Clinton's a witch too (none / 0)

Anyone who meets with a witch is a witch.  If you meet with a witch-meeter, you are a witch as well.  

Witchness! It's everywhere!! You can't be TOO CAREFUL.  

Shoot first, ask questions later.  BURN THE WITCHES!


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:39:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 1)

He turned strongly and publicly anti-gay in 2001, years after he sang at a Clinton event.


by markjay on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:22:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (1.00 / 3)

This is yet another non-issue.  The plain FACT is that there are many opinions on the status of gay people.  We should NOT cut off this guy because he has the "wrong" idea.  

The black church is NOT gay-friendly.  There is a very natural tension between gays and blacks, especially religious conservative blacks.

And quite frankly, if it comes down to voting, I'm voting for the conservative blacks.  There are 2-3 % gays, and 6-7 % blacks.  The blacks win.  Sorry.


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:16:27 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 4)

Ignoring for a minute the topic of Obama let me address your post because like when you called the Chinese 'wetbacks" you seem to have an issue separating out your prejudices from the discussion at hand.


by bruh21 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (1.00 / 1)

Off topic.  


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 5)

Not really because he's right.  You've said vile things about Indians and Chinese in the past, and here you are stereotyping "blacks" as anti-gay.


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:24:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 3)

MANY OPINIONS ON THE STATUS OF GAY PEOPLE?????????

YEAH and ONLY one is acceptable..

Gays are EQUAL and NOT SECOND CLASS CITIZENS.


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:06:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

I'm not sure what the point of your post is.  Is the point that this is a non-issue?  or that "the" "black church" is not gay-friendly?  (I didn't know there was just one).  or that whatever tension there is between this one black church and the gay community is "natural"?  or that you will vote for conservative blacks at the expense of gay people?  or that because the black community is larger than the gays, then they "win"?  Pick a prejudiced thought and stick with it.


by CoolHandLuc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:57:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

TWO has gotten in on this issue on its frontpage:

http://www.truthwinsout.org/

This issue has gotten quite big, and I agree with Todd that if you go after the "moral conservative" evangelical AA vote in South Carolina, you run the risk of running counter to the "moral progressive" vote elsewhere, as has happened here.   I don't get why this guy was invited in the first place.  None of the other gospel artists seem to be a problem.  Why was this one so important as to create this issue?  All they needed to do was get another artist like the dozen others (non-confrontational) and there would have been no issue at all.  You get to go after the evangelical AA vote without bumping into problems with other constituencies.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:19:35 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

This is Obama's macca moment.  The gay vote may not be that large but it only needs to be large enough at the margin -- to deny him first place in the primaries.


by Bob in BC on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:19:45 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (1.00 / 1)

this same gospel singer has performed for Bill Clinton before...so before all you Hillary supporters, with your fake outrage, start criticizing Obama, you should know all the facts.


by allmiview on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

I'm just trying to track this down, not implying anything but curiosity, but do you happen to have a link about the McClurkin/Clinton performance?


by BingoL on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 2)

here is the link  http://www.democraticunderground.com/dis cuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address =132x3628810

He not only performed for "the Clintons", he also performed at the Democratic National convention.  


by allmiview on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:26:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 1)

Did you not read the remarks which explained to you that he did not start his anti-gay comments and anti-gay ministry until 2001, well after Bill Clinton was out of office?


by georgep on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

McClurkin started his anti-gay crusade in 2001.  Your comment has no relevance to this discussion, as that appearance was in 1996, if I am not mistaken.   At that point there were no anti-gay elements visible, he was just another singer.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 2)

I didn't realize Obama had the gay vote in his pocket anyway.  Did I miss that somewhere?  It wasn't really his to "lose."


The sharpest criticism often goes hand in hand with the deepest idealism and love of country. ~RFK
by Vox Populi on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:21:52 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

I think he just did.  This is national now, I saw it on yahoo news.  And he could lose more than just the "gay" vote- it's always talked about he has a lot of the "youth" vote- well, the youth are the very ones most likely to be offended by this- and Hollywood players are not going to be too keen over it, either.  You listening, David Geffen?

If Obama doesn't drop the guy, there will be fall-out.


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:22:30 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

"Obama's outreach to the black evangelical community is admirable and could reap benefits for the Democratic Party in the long-run"

The Black community, evangelical or other, is already in the Democratic party.  For this primary season, it's a matter of who they support, Obama or Hillary; so there is no long run. I think this is a case where Obama wanted to connect with the Black voters of SC by bringing a popular musician to help court the vote.  Now however, it has turned into a mess, because he may alienate the gay/lesbian community.  IMO, this is a short term disaster, if McClurkin sticks to singing and doesn't hop up on his soap box about praying away his gayness.


by Kingstongirl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:23:52 PM EST

You're wrong about that (none / 0)

There is a segment, and it can be large, of the black community that is susceptible to the conservative message.  This is the socially conservative black vote.  MANY black preachers are MORALLY OFFENDED by homosexuality.  MANY are EVEN MORE INCENSED by the notion, which they VIOLENTLY disagree with, that homosexuality is inherent.  

This is also the case with hispanics.  Many many hispanics are morally conservatives repelled by homosexuality.  During the 2004 election, I heard over and over that the gay marriage agenda of the dems was driving them away.  

We democrats do NOT have a lock on the black vote.  For the moment, we do.  But we can lose it.


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong about that (2.00 / 1)

So you think the Democratic party is going to lose the Black vote to the Republicans because we are inclusive as a party and think that discrimination based on race, sex, or gender is wrong.  I don't think so.   Black preachers preaching about the wrongness of homosexuality is not going to sway the Black to the Republican side of the house.  


by Kingstongirl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:38:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't say that (none / 0)

What I did say is that there is a segment of the black community morally offended by homosexuality.  I think that it's about 25 %.


by dataguy on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:43:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're wrong about that (none / 0)

Ohio 2004.


by Dee on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 1)

McClurkin has already been on the soapbox; that's the problem.

Imagine if some Democratic candidate hired David Duke, Louis Farrakhan, or OJ Simpson to sing the national anthem at their event.  Even if [divisive figure] said not one word and behaved impeccably, that candidate has now associated her/his campaign with that person.  


by chiefscribe on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:40:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Louis Farrakhan provided security protection for Jesse Jackson and he often shares the stage with many Black leaders and politicians.


by Dee on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 1)

This is why Democratic Party politics are awesome and always will be.

This raises the age-old question of whether tolerant people are supposed to be tolerant of the intolerant.  If Obama can navigate his way out of this no-win situation, he's a better man than I.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:30:06 PM EST

This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

  It's political pandering.  Let people make their decision about the pander as they will but his intention here was to pander, which is fine with me.  Whether an acceptable pander or not is for others to decide.  But, let's not make this into more than it is.


by bookgrl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

I don't get what you mean.  Pandering to whom?  Sounds like a regular old screw-up by his campaign.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:41:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

To the religious conservatives. I frankly don't find the screw up concept credible.  But, hey, maybe you're right.  


by bookgrl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

Are you hearing dog whistles again? :)


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

Steve, I'm a realist.  Like I said, I will leave it for others to decide if it is an acceptable pander, but I think probably is a pander.  


by bookgrl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:05:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

Well, you probably know from my other posts that I'm a benefit of the doubt kind of guy.  That's not far from being naive, of course, and you could certainly be right about this.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're both right! (none / 0)

He was pandering AND screwed it up.  He could have scored points with gospel fans in SC and nobody outside of that demographic would have known or cared, but for lack of proper vetting or proper training of staff, he ended up hiring someone who has made hateful remarks about a core constituency.  Ooops!  Now he can finesse no longer.  He won't get away w/o taking a stand, & since the devil is in the details he will certainly lose some support from somewhere.  


by chiefscribe on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:57:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both right! (2.00 / 1)

If all you mean by "pandering" is that he was trying to put on a concert tour that people would like, that's a pretty weak form of pandering in my book.

I understood bookgrl to be suggesting that he knew this singer was anti-gay and he was subtly trying to pick up evangelical votes.  I have no way of knowing, of course, but I'm sticking with the "inadequate vetting" theory myself.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're both right! (none / 0)

Well, that's possible.  


by bookgrl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (2.00 / 1)

I think this issue was "made worse" by famed Obama supporter "Iamready" yesterday.  She claimed that Obama installed McClurkin specifically to go after the "morally conservative AA vote in SC."  In other words, if I understood her comments correctly, she specifically claimed that an anti-gay voice was included to curry favor with that segment of the AA population in SC that has some (hidden and not-so-hidden) problem with that lifestyle.   I can't say if that is really what was behind this, or if the campaign just screwed up innocently, but if one of Obama's prominent blog supporters makes a claim like that (and shouts if off the rooftops on several blogs, including dailykos and mydd,) then it means something, at least for the purposes of discussion on these blogs where these claim are made.  Remember that Iamready claims to have intimate insider info from and about the Obama campaign (not sure to believe that, just know that that claim has been made repeatedly.)  


by georgep on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

If true, you'd really have to wonder what they were thinking.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:04:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (2.00 / 1)

Yes, absolutely.  But, I actually tend to go with your explanation that it is probably more or less an crazy screwup by some idiot on the campaign.  I just found it interesting and amazing that this was defended by Obama supporters as a good thing, a necessary thing (to win votes in SC) and that it is much ado about nothing.   There is obvious damage here (if you look around the blogs, this is indeed somewhat of a firestorm) and pretending there is nothing to it when it is clear that this is a big issue in the progressive and gay community as a whole is just ignoring reality.  

Still, how Obama handles this issue will say a lot.  I think he HAS to uninvite the guy promptly.  The damage has already been done, but he can minimize it by doing the right thing by the larger community.  It is really the only thing he can do.  


by georgep on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

an crazy screw up = a crazy screw up


by georgep on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:16:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (2.00 / 2)

It reminds me of hwc arguing that Hillary's vote on the Iraq war was a good and necessary thing in order to demonstrate her toughness and all-around commanderinchiefiness.  I mean, whatever, but it's amazing someone could think these arguments do anything but horrify people.  Like, even if you secretly thought Obama was a brilliant politician for slipping an anti-gay performer into his concert tour, I think you'd be smart enough not to say it out loud!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (2.00 / 1)

George,

I respectfully disagree with 2 parts of your post. First,  There is NO DOUBT in my mind that OBAMA specifically selected a WELL KNOWN enemy of the GAY COMMUNITY in an effort to win votes.  There is no possible way that he "would not have known."  When going on a GOSPEL tour,  that would be the FIRST thing one would check on, I would think.  

Secondly, its not a "lifestyle".  ITs an "orientation" that is biologically determined.

But we can both AGREE that it is a BLESSING that HILLARY CLINTON is on the ballot.


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:56:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (2.00 / 1)

On the second part, you totally misunderstood my post.    I was speaking basically with the singer's vernacular, as in "I want to bring 'the gays' from their errant path and wrong lifestyle to a life of virtue and respectability."  I probably should have put the word "lifestyle" in quotes, so the intent would have become clear.  

To the first part:  I don't know.  I am just going with my gut feeling on this.  Logic tells me that the last thing Obama needs right about now is an issue that spreads across the blogs and makes its way into the mainstream media.  This has all the makings of a big multi-day issue, because now everybody will be watching and waiting for "Obama's decision."  He really can't win either way at this point, as if he cans the guy it will still leave a bad taste with many who are now taking offense and will incense this guy's fans and many in the SC AA community.  The other way around you have a similar type of mess.   I can't imagine he would have wanted to create such controversy, so I have to believe that some staffer put the artists lineup together from a gigantic list of availables/possibles and did not know about these issues (meaning, shoddy vetting occured.)

I am not absolutely sure, of course, but that seems to be the most logical explanation.  Obama can read polls (his campaign spends the most of all on polls, after all) and knows that he is falling in some states, stagnating in others, and can ill afford any type of issue at this crucial point in the campaign.  Just my opinion.  


by georgep on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:58:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

I see your point


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 02:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (2.00 / 1)

I have to STRONGLY DISAGREE.....As a gay person,  there is a line in the sand that I have to draw.

I could LIVE with Edwards remarks that he was "Struggling" and "conflicted" even though they are not the IDEAL stance that I would like to see a candidate have.  At least he doesnt call us EVIL PEOPLE and start a CRUSADE AGAINST US who are just trying to live our lives the best we can.

Donnie McClurkin is to GAYS what David Duke is to African Americans....I wish people could understand this.  

And YES,  I am voting for HILLARY in the PRIMARY. But should she lose,  I had always planned on supporting the DEMOCRAT that wins the primary.  I can't if its OBAMA.  

And it sounds like GULLIANI is not the greatest either on this issue.  So I just pray that HILLARY or EDWARDS wins.  


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:44:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

So you are comfortable with the fact that Edwards remarks that he is conflicted and can vote for him, yet you will not vote for a candidate who has never expressed that kind of conflict?  I agree this was bad staff work and I understand you would prefer he remove McClurkin from the tour.  He has since made comments clarifying his disagreements with McClurkin and suggesting that McClurkin needs to re-examine his views on these issues.

Obama would likely lose more votes at this point pulling McClurkin from schedule than by keeping him.  I hope that most in the Gay community realize that Obama does not endorse McClurkin's views, just his singing.


by Obama08 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:02:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

There is nothing in OBAMA's record that would indicate that he is against gays, I agree.  But lets face it, he has a short record.

What he is doing by touring with Donnie McClurkin is saying that he is WILLING to treat the LGBT COMMUNITY as second class citizens, if it means he can get votes.  

That is exactly what Bush did in 2004.  Bush won over a lot of INDEPENDENTS who were supportive of the GAY COMMUNITY in 2000 by speaking to the LOG CABIN SOCIETY, and saying that he felt we should be treated as equals.  Bush BROKE his promise whith his willingness to endorse "A constitutional Ammendment to BAN GAY MARRIAGE"

I dont believe BUSH even cares if gays get married.  But he KNOWS his base did.  Thats why he was willing to sell out his principles to win the votes of the HATE MONGERING HOMOPHOBICS.

And that is what OBAMA is doing now.  HE needs to show that he has the CONVICTION To fire Donnie McClurkin from the tour.  

There are PLENTY of GOSPEL singers to choose from. The fact that he SPECIFICALLY chose THIS ONE tells me that he is INTENTIONALLY Trying to appeal to GAY BASHERS.  And that is sick.

However, if he removes DONNIE McClurkin,  he has the opportunity to be a HERO in the gay community.  Gays will then know he is SERIOUS about TREATING US EQUAL.


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:11:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

I agree and Obama agrees that Donnie McClurkin is wrong on issues pertaining to the LGBT community.  In fact he has repeatedly repudiated leaders in the Black community for not supporting their gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.  His campaign's statement on the issue reflects that.

I have clearly stated my belief that gays and lesbians are our brothers and sisters and should be provided the respect, dignity, and rights of all other citizens. I have consistently spoken directly to African-American religious leaders about the need to overcome the homophobia that persists in some parts of our community so that we can confront issues like HIV/AIDS and broaden the reach of equal rights in this country.

I strongly believe that African Americans and the LGBT community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as President of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division.

In fact, he makes clear that he views the African American struggle for equality in the same light that he views the gay struggle for equality.  I know that you would like him to disinvite McClurkin, I would like Hillary to fire Penn for his history of Union busting.  However, it has to be understood that neither Hillary's employment of Penn or Obama having McClurkin on this tour serves as an endorsement of all the views held by these individuals.


by Obama08 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (1.00 / 1)

Edwards said he was conflicted over gay marriage.  Since when does Obama support gay marriage?  Your post is disingenuous.


Waiting for the Glorious Train Wreck.
by Rooktoven on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 08:41:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This isn't about tolerance. (none / 0)

Hillary doesn't believe in gay marriage either.  


I am an Edwards Democrat. Visit EENR blog for Progressives
by pioneer111 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 04:12:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

diversity (2.00 / 1)

What's interesting to me is that McClurkin is very famous to anyone who listens to black radio.  Yet the blogsophere seems to be totally ignorant of him, so that he can be turned into an anti-gay symbol by gay bloggers.  An American Idol singer was accused of being anti-gay for singing a Mary Mary song, so this seems to be a standard tactic.


John McCain is a Bush ally on Social Security.
by John DE on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:31:53 PM EST

Re: diversity (none / 0)

Isn't Mary Mary also performing? They're possibly anti-gay, too? With a name like -that-?


by BingoL on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:46:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: diversity (none / 0)

Mary Mary is performing, and they are very talented.  I actually got to meet them once here in Atlanta when they did an appearance for one of the local radio stations.  I've never heard of them making any kind of statements like McClurkin's.  If you're interested in gosple music, they're defnitely worth checking out.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: diversity (2.00 / 3)

John, I really cannot fathom what McClurkin's level of popularity has to do with anything.  It doesn't matter to me if he's sold 1 record or 100 million. the point is that he has made (and continues to make) anti-gay comments about how we are cursed and abnormal, and that simply isn't acceptable to most progressives, especially gay progressives.

"Gay bloggers" didn't turn him into anything - McCLurkin has made his position on this very clear.  Should we just ignore that because he's popular on black radio? McClurkin has been telling his congregation for years that people like me are cursed and abnormal, and Obama's people must have known that when they invited him. If they didn't know, that makes it even more of agiant screw-up.

They could have chosen a dozen other truly excellent gospel singers who don't say things like that, but somebody screwed the pooch on this one.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:59:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ok (none / 0)

This is where I condemn McClurkin's anti-gay statements, and hope he moves to renounce this bad policy.  After all, your feeling are 100% legit and Obama is reponsible for his own policies.  I just think that I would have made the same mistake.  


John McCain is a Bush ally on Social Security.
by John DE on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:07:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: diversity (2.00 / 1)

You don't know what you are talking about- it had nothing to do with Mandisa singing the Mary Mary song "Shackles"- it had to do with what she said before she started singing, which she said if you want to change your "lifestyle," God could help and some wondered what she meant by that, especially since on her AI page, she listed as one of her influences Beth Moore, who has referenced in Moore's book Breaking Free and the links on her website to "ex-gay" groups, including Exodus International and Exodus Youth.  Also, in Mandisa's interview, she said she would never perform at a Gay Festival event because it is against what she believes the Bible to say.  It wasn't about her just singing "a song"- there have several gospel songs on the show and no one has said a word like that about it.


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:28:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Well, here it is-

BREAKING: Obama says won't pull anti-gay bigot from big campaign event

http://www.americablog.com/2007/10/break ing-obama-says-wont-pull-anti-gay.html

About 6:40 pm today, the Obama campaign issued a written statement from the candidate saying that he "strongly disagree(s)" with McClurkin's views. Still, a spokesman said McClurkin would remain part of the concert line-up.


by reasonwarrior on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:38:37 PM EST

Being African American and Understanding (none / 0)

this I look at it like this.

It will play in Iowa.  And it will play in South Carolina.

This is politics.  Look beyond this.

Obama has a person who has problems with gays, but know his position and the church he goes to.  One that perform gay marriages.  One of the most controversial in this country.  But this man supports Obama.

Mr. McClurkin has issues.  One being attacked and raped repeatedly as a child.

But, I look at this in political terms.  Obama will go and talk directly to the gay community.  But this is political strategy.

And the Black Community like this artist.  I took time off the blog and spoke with both my parents, who knew nothing of this.  But adores the music of McClurkin.

The Black Community has issues with homophobia and HIV/AIDS.  The attitude of "it will not happen to me" meme, but we have the highest STD and AID of any block group.  Hillary Clinton was right about this during the Black Forum in D.C.

This does not excuse or recuse, Mr. McClurkin's comments of the past.  But if we think politically, if Obama threw McClurkin off the tour, every democrat will call him.  Why?  Because they what the Black Vote as well, which is 50% in South Carolina.  And no doubt, that this democrat would stand in a South Carolina Black Church, with McClurkin, speaking on tolerance and understanding.

We know it would happen.  It is politics.

We will soon see this play out.  But one thing for sure, it is not in play in Iowa and it is in play in South Carolina.


by iamready on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:45:03 PM EST

Re: Being African American and Understanding (2.00 / 2)

So it is ok for Obama to give this guy a platform so he can make political hay within SC's homophobic and AIDS-phobic community?   That seems like quite the sellout to me.  


by georgep on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 02:04:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Being African American and Understanding (2.00 / 1)

Aren't you the one who's always complaining that Hillary will do anything to win, and yet it's just fine when Obama embraces this bigoted clown to score some points in SC?  For shame.


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 02:47:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bleh (2.00 / 1)

I agree with the quoted person in the article that someone should be fired over this. Obama does not really need this right now. I guess the campaign will probably disinvite McClurkin eventually if things keep on building like they have been.

Anyways, I've made my personal opinion known that this is much ado about nothing, or very little at most. It's extremely obvious this wasn't something intentional on the Obama campaign's part, and that they just made a stupid mistake. Definitely unfortunate from a political standpoint.  


by Korha on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 11:47:40 PM EST

Re: Bleh (none / 0)

yep... and once the elections roll around, the voters will just do that, tell Obama "you're fired"


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:35:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

This shows Obama's campaign inexperience more than anything else about him. This hurts his supporter's arguement that he is more electable than Hillary. I'm not going to say he should fire this guy, but he boxed himself into a corner that he didn't have to box himself into. How could he not have thoroughly vetted every singer is beyond me.


by Christopher Lib on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:14:06 AM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

If he is seen as disinviting McClurkin, he can hang up South Carolina.

1 out of every 2 Democratic Primary Voters in South Carolina is Black.

83% of Black South Carolinians go to church at least twice a month.

Obama needs to keep McClurkin and that Gospel Tour.

He does NOT need to be seen as putting yet ANOTHER group's agenda BEFORE THE BLACK COMMUNITY. And, that's how it will be seen.


by rikyrah on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:29:58 AM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 4)

Another groups agenda?  You know, I appreciate the unfortunate position Obama now finds himself in, but he nor african americans are victim to the "agenda" of gays.  He could have immediately, quietly disinvited this guy.  These things happen all the time in campaigns, and he had time to stop the bleeding here.  It's disingenious to seemingly fault gays for Obama's misstep.  He's a bigot and he's fundraising for Obama.  


by bookgrl on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:00:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Quietly disinvite one of the most popular and beloved religious and gospel figures in the African American Community?  Now, that's funny!


by Dee on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:30:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (2.00 / 1)

I hate to tell you this, but there are blacks IN the gay community and part of the black community is part of the gay community.  And you can't tell me that all the blacks who go to church at least twice a month agree with McClurkin and his views- most are not saying to cancel the tour but to cancel McClurkin.  


by reasonwarrior on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 07:44:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Ok, there may be one or two.  Yes, I'm being facetious because it's so laughable how out of touch white progressives are with a segment of the Democratic Party you think you know so much about, but you don't.


by Dee on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:23:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Rikyrah,

Clearly Bookgirl and others here don't understand that nothing gets Black folks more riled up than equating Gay rights to African American civil rights.  As you and I know, even Black folks who are highly sympathetic of the struggles of gays and lesbians will be quick to tell you you've crossed the line if you start comparing the struggles or equating the communities.  I'm tempted to post the link to one of the most popular African American sites so folks here can read what Black folks are saying about this issue. It's as hot of an issue there as it is in progressive bloghesphere, but I don't have to tell you that the opinions are as different as night and day (forgive the pun).


by Dee on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

They truly don't understand that nothing riles up the folks of my mother's generation especially, than to hear Gay folks talk about Gay Rights being equal to the Civil Rights Movement. They're not hearing it.


by rikyrah on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 06:40:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NY Times picks up the Obama story (2.00 / 1)

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/ 10/22/obama-criticized-over-singer/

The New York Times is now running the Obama story. I'd say that he has a full-blown campaign issue.

Here's a clue for Mr. Obama. Either quit pissing off the supporters of other candidates by lumping lifelong Democrats in with Bush/Cheney or move out of your glass house.

It's amazing how fast this story went viral on the blogs over the last 24 hours.


by hwc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 02:16:35 AM EST

A quote from McClurkin (2.00 / 1)

For those of you who think McClurkin isn't so bad, and that this is much ado about nothing, here's a quote from the bigot:


"You can't talk about the redeeming and saving power of Jesus Christ when you're still living in the abominable. I know I may get into trouble with some who may think that I am a little too strong saying that homosexuality is abominable but there's a Bible that I have got to concur with. I've got to agree with it. Not to the slighting of those that are involved but to the pulling down and destroying of the thing that they're involved in. We can't kill the people, the people are too precious to God. Everyone is too important to God and God does not dispose of people!
<snip>
The bottom line is, if I mess up tomorrow and if I'm out in the lifestyle and I'm totally bankrupt of all my morality.I would be the first one to tell them 'Don't follow me. I'm wrong, God is right.' But that's not going to happen!" he laughs.

This fools thinks we (gays) are morally bankrupt, and abominable.  There are plenty of other gospel singers Obama could have invited who don't say stupid shit like this. This isn't about the church or AA concerns, it's about Donnie McClurkin.  He's a bigot.

http://www.crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/m usic/a_pastors_heart/9781/p1/


No Way. No How. No McCain.
by Denny Crane on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 02:41:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Have any of these politicians ever heard of the intersexed? They're the one's born with both male and female genitalia. Their numbers exceed the number of Down's Syndrome, yet we know more about Down's Syndrome than we do the intersexed.

Then there's the even more elusive group called androgynes. Their genitalia is distinctly male or female, and their brain is predominantly the opposite.

Sexually, they're the opportunistic bunch. They can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, unisexual or asexual, usually depending on what opportunities present themselves. And that can last a lifetime.

It's rough on politicians to have to face the reality that we don't live in an either/or world or universe. It's both/and, and that's the way it is.

The questionable historical Jesus is reputed to have said that some are born eunuchs from their mother's womb. (Matthew 19:12). Funny how the wingnut religious right can't seem to find that verse in their bibles.


by Hempy on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 02:33:22 AM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Tolerance is such a loaded word, because it means we cannot tolerate certain kinds of speech.  We claim to support everyone's free personal choice, except when it comes to sexuality.  People like McClurkin are hated for two reasons, because they say that the homosexual lifestyle is wrong, and that they chose to ignore their sexual inclinations in ordering their life.

We may not have any choice about what arouses us, but our response to it is completely up to us.  That is where the choice lay.  

By not firing McClurkin, Obama will certainly generate controversy in the blogosphere, but I question whether the audience he is trying to reach by this move will notice.


by Matusleo on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:32:12 AM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

You show many any tangible evidence where the gay vote or progressive vote for that matter has been a deciding factor in any national or state-wide campaign.  The results would be marginal at best.  On the flip side, the Black church, most of whom share McClurkin's views, are a decisive voting block.  Mr. face of the Party, President Clinton, advised John Kerry to come out against gay marriage because he understood this.


by Dee on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:36:14 AM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Well, it must be "something" because they sure do seem to go after it.


by reasonwarrior on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 08:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

not that I go here for any political news, but even Perez Hilton, Obama's most high profile gay supporter is pissed about this...


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:39:33 AM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Well, he lost this gay dude's vote for sure.  This is just the last straw in a line of disappointments from him.  This isn't THE thing that takes away my vote - it's the last thing.  

And, to be clear, it's not that Obama is sharing a stage with this douchebag - it's that Obama is GIVING the douchebag the stage and choosing to associate himself with Donnie.  And the problem is not that Obama is giving a homophobe a stage - it's that he is giving an ACTIVE homophobe a stage, someone who is actively preaching, singing, and writing about how we homos need to be converted back.  

I'm done.


by CoolHandLuc on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:42:14 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

Yeah.  It's probably not an issue - unless you happen to be gay, like me.  I'm interested in a whole range of positions, like the war, the economy, health care - not just LGBT issues.  But this situation is troubling to me.

I realize that politicians have to go wherever the votes are, and that just because someone supports a candidate, it doesn't mean that the candidate agrees with all their supporters' positions.  But to me, the Obama campaign's statement disavowing McClurkin's viewpoint just isn't sufficient to convince me.

I'm looking at a bunch of Democratic candidates with very similar position on most issues.  The fact that Obama is willing to keep this "ex-gay" crusader on his South Carolina stops is indicative to me.  Maybe, as some of you have said, there are more homophobic votes than gay votes.  But if Obama choses to throw me under the bus and go after those votes, he really can't expect mine.  We gays are probably just as dumb as the rest of the electorate, but we're not THAT dumb!


by baliabba on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:16:59 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

I am a gay citizen of Mr. Obama's former State Senate district in Illinois. I've watched this 'now I'm with you, now I'm not' nonsense from Mr. Obama for several decades now.

Anyone who believed that Barack Obama is supports the rights of lesbians and gay men is seriously deluding themselves.

For my fellow gay and lesbian voters, do your self a favor. Take your votes and your financial contributions elsewhere!


by srsjones on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 03:37:38 PM EST

This "controversy" is nonsense (none / 0)

Excuse me for saying so, but this supposed "controversy" is complete nonsense, and represents the worst quality of the democratic party, namely the tendency to be thin-skinned and take offense at everything.

Someone at the Obama campaign hired a homophobe to sing at an event. Is this really a news story? It reminds me of 2004, when there was a big piece run shortly before the Iowa Caucuses about how Howard Dean's former bodyguard beat his wife.

The fact that Hillary's campaign took money from questionable donors is a larger issue, but even that begs the question of how much to blame a candidate because a questionable person becomes associated with a campaign. The fact is, in the vast realm of people that donate to or volunteer for a campaign there are going to be jerks or criminals in the mix. If this person had a prominent position in the Obama campaign, this would be a different story, but someone hired to sing at an event is so unimportant it's ludicrous.

This is yet another distraction from the real issues at hand in our country.


by maxlongstreet on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 05:14:46 PM EST

Re: Did Obama Just Lose The Gay Vote? (none / 0)

The gospel tour : mzelkd.info - ejdzei.info - doedze.info - dzpokl.info - dpapoe.info - ozskde.info - poeioj.info
ozkjpz.com - azpoef.com - mlkied.com - djpeur.com - oiurej.com - dszikr.com - pzpzkd.com
by henrymaddy on Wed Feb 20, 2008 at 04:19:31 AM EST


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