CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8

Bumped - Todd

The new CNN national primary poll shows two different dynamics at play in the two parties' primaries. On the Democratic side, Clinton rises above 50% for the first time in this poll, going from a 23% lead over Obama in September to a 30% lead today and expanding the distance between 1st and 4th place to 47%. While Giuliani is still ahead among the Republicans and actually expands his lead by 7% thanks to a plummeting Thompson, the Republican field is much more compact, with the top four candidates all within 14% of each other.

First the Democrats:

(485 RVs, Oct. 12-14, MOE 4.5%)

CandidateOctoberSeptemberRCP 5-poll Ave.
Clinton514648.2
Obama212320.4
Edwards151612.6
Richardson453.6

It's not insignificant, of course, that this is now the third poll in a week to show Clinton at or above 50% (as Mark Blumenthal says, that ABC/WaPo poll is an outlier no more.) Looking at the candidates' performance in relation to their recent averages, Clinton and Edwards appear to be rising and Obama looks stalled. Looking over a longer period, however, it's evident that Clinton is the only candidate who can really claim any longterm growth as Obama, Edwards and Richardson have all been at or above their current standing in national primary polling earlier this year, namely in early September; the CNN poll marks Clinton's second highest poll result of the year.

The Republicans:

(374 RVs, Oct. 12-14, MOE 5%)

CandidateOctoberSeptemberRCP 5-poll Ave.
Giuliani272828.2
Thompson192718.4
McCain171513.2
Romney131112.4

This result is perhaps most notable for Fred Thompson's 8 point fall, although that may just be a correction from an outlying result from September, which showed Thompson within 1 point of Giuliani. But even more intriguing is McCain's virtual tie with Thompson for second place, which runs counter to all conventional wisdom about McCain's and Thompson's respective viabilities. It also draws attention to the gap that sometimes exists between actual popularity (as measured in polls) and perceived popularity, as projected in the media. The storyline of McCain's fall has been fairly persistent, except for some reports of a gradual resurgence in New Hampshire, and his fundraising reflects this. Marc Ambinder reported earlier today that McCain's campaign is essentially bankrupt.

One notable result from the poll, and one that should be somewhat worrying for the Clinton campaign, is that Clinton beats Giuliani in a head to head match-up by only 2 points, 49%-47% (essentially a tie) whereas a generic Democrat beats a generic Republican 52%-39%. If this gap between Clinton's polled performance against Giuliani and that of a generic Dem is an indicator of a larger trend, this could signify a downside to a Clinton candidacy against Giuliani in particular. It also could signal a weakening on her part in the general, especially in light of this chart from Bowers that shows she'd achieved a minimum advantage of 3 points over Rudy since August, but that's too early to tell from just this poll. Interestingly, Al Gore performs better against Giuliani than Clinton does, 52%-46%.



Display:


Grandpa Fred is underwhelming (none / 0)

at least that's the chatter I hear from the Iowa Republicans I know (admittedly, I don't talk to nearly as many Republicans as Democrats).


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:34:04 AM EST

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (none / 0)

If Hillary is winning by just 2 points in a "CNN" poll then she's going to be in real trouble against Giuliani in the general election.


by 12345 on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:39:41 AM EST

Interesting you substituted CNN's analysis... (none / 0)

For the generic Dem vs Rep. number and Hillary vs Guiliani number with your own...

A mention that you essentially derive a nearly opposite conclusion that the pollster should have warranted a mention from you...

Here it is...

"The race between Clinton and Giuliani is close, not because Clinton is weak, but because Giuliani gets a lot more support from moderate and independent voters than a generic Republican candidate. That's the irony, Giuliani is trying to sound more and more like a typical Republican to get the nomination. But voters don't see him as a typical Republican. "


by SaveElmer on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:47:35 AM EST

Re: Interesting you substituted CNN's analysis... (none / 0)

Yeah, there are a lot of people out there who are still convinced that Rudy is a moderate or even a liberal.


by Tom on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 10:18:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting you substituted CNN's analysis... (none / 0)

Yes, SaveElmer is right.  I have a lot more faith that Clinton would hold her own and win against Giuliani than Gore would against Giuliani.  The fact that Clinton and Giuliani are tied gives me more faith that she would in November of '08 because with Giuliani and Clinton, voters are getting the same candidate: pro-choice, pro-gun control, etc.  Clinton has a genuine connection with those issues that are important to her base while Giuliani would be representing his base in word only.  Big difference in the end.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (2.00 / 1)

So after doubting Hillary's electability for years, now all of a sudden her 2 point lead against moderate Giuliani (who is supposed to win even some blue state) is bad news for her? Why do you act as if Clinton is supposed to win this thing? No. She's supposed to lose, according to the cries of unelectability, high negatives, etc. that we have been hearing forever.

Give me a break.


by kingsbridge77 on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:59:29 AM EST

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (2.00 / 1)

On direct head-to-heads with Giuliani it is probably best to go with aggregates, as those comparisons have a pretty wide spread at times.  For instance, Rasmussen shows Clinton with a 7% lead over Giuliani, that recent ABC/WaPo poll the diarist referenced showed an 8% Clinton edge.  

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/ 2008/president/us/general_election_giuli ani_vs_clinton-227.html

Including this CNN poll, the aggregate shows a 5.4% Clinton edge over Giuliani, which is currently a higher edge than either Edwards or Obama are showing.  


by georgep on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 02:23:04 AM EST

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (1.50 / 2)

People read way too much into these head to head matchup polls at this stage. As you suggest, they vary wildly.

There are many dynamics at play right now. For example, Edwards and Obama supporters are at their peak hatred of Clinton and likely to be saying they will vote for Rudy.

You've also got every candidate in the race pounding Clinton, echoed by the talking heads. Not only do you have the Republican attacks, but you've got all the Democratic candidates attacking her and all the Democratic talking heads trying to manufacturer a story.


by hwc on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 03:16:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (none / 0)

Talk about arrogant.  Why are you even here if you think everyone hates you and the candidate you support?


John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion
by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 09:46:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (none / 0)

because we want to stop the lovefest for Obama/Edwards and keep things real, so that when HRC gets the nomination, you guys wont go into shock. Plus, then we get to rub it in! jk lol

We come here because we want to. We like reading the stuff on this site, we like arguing points, we like comparing the candidates, because we're active in politics (whether we are on the same team or not in the primaries) because we're all (well not all, Dereklarson seems to lean towards Ron Paul, and a few others love Nader) rooting for the Democratic nominee in the end instead of a Repug. Because this community is much less hectic than DKos where a post gets 30000000 responses in 2 minutes and you cant keep track of stuff.  Because we've been here for months, and some of us years, rooting for our candidate and prevented the carpet bombing that would have occurred otherwise.  And lastly, because its fun.

Thats why we're here... or at least thats why i am here


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 11:12:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (none / 0)

I'm not arrogant. I know that everyone loves me.


by hwc on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 11:50:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (none / 0)

BUT, it could be a sign that Hillary is slipping, even as she romps to the nomination.

The trendline is:

10/12-14/07       47 49  
 9/7-9/07         46 50  
 6/22-24/07       48 49

Draw your own conclusions.


by mikelow1885 on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 12:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: CNN Poll: Clinton Up 5, Thompson Down 8 (none / 0)

Noise, nothing else.


by georgep on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 03:37:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's Hillary v. Edwards or Obama, not Generic Dem (none / 0)

RCP's averages show Hillary with a 5.4% advantage over Rudy, but Obama and Edwards each only best him by 2 points.

And I'm no Hillary shill - I'm an Edwards supporter.

Also, this is one poll, and no poll by itself has the whole story.  I'd put more trust in RCP's averaged results.


by RT on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 02:34:46 PM EST

McCain really IS dead - NOT 'getting better' (none / 0)

1) Again, this is one poll.  Sample size, 374.  Relying on that is standing on some pretty thin ice.

2) Again, trust the multi-poll averages, at RCP or pollster.com.

3) The real reason we can write McCain off is that he's doing piss-poor in ALL the pre-Feb.5 states.

If he was #1 or solidly #2 overall, and had lots of money in the bank, he'd still have a tough time losing Iowa, NH, NV, SC, MI, and FL, finishing no better than third anywhere.

But he's running third in the national polls, and he's running anywhere from third to fifth in all the early states.  Where's he going to re-ignite that failing candidacy?  I don't see anywhere.  

After NH, McCain will be an afterthought.  He'll be a line on the ballot, and no more, in the Feb. 5 states, and will probably call it quits on the morning of Feb. 6.


by RT on Wed Oct 17, 2007 at 05:09:42 PM EST


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