Obama puts Hillary to shame.



If we have learned anything at all, following the unelected, corrupt, dishonest eight-year George W. Bush-Dick B.Cheney reign of terror (that many were not able to even survive), it is that it does indeed really matter just who the President of the United States is. Moreover, honesty and clear-headed, rationale judgement & analysis must be the primary critera.

Shown below are Barack Obama's recent statements with respect to Iran and the irresponsible Joe Lieberman-Jon Kyl (R) legislation, which thankfully no 2008 (or 2004) Democratic candidate for President supported....
er....except, of course, Rupport Murdoch's favorite Democrat: Hillary Clinton.


                                      Barack Obama on IRAN, Lieberman-Kyl

"The amendment, offered by Sens. Joe Lieberman and Jon Kyl, directly links the ongoing war in Iraq -- including our troop presence -- to checking the threat from Iran. The amendment opens with 17 findings that highlight Iranian influence within Iraq [Note: The CIA refused to confirm these 'findings']. It then states that we have to 'transition(s) and structure' our 'military presence in Iraq' to counter the threat from Iran, and states that it is 'a critical national interest of the United States' to prevent the Iranian government from exerting influence inside Iraq.

Why is this so dangerous? The Bush administration will use language like this to justify a continued troop presence in Iraq as long as it perceives a threat from Iran. Even worse, the Bush administration could use the language in Lieberman-Kyl to justify an attack on Iran as a part of the ongoing war in Iraq.

As my colleague Sen. Joe Biden, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in opposing the amendment, "I do not want to give the President and his lawyers any argument that Congress has somehow authorized military actions."

He is exactly right. Because as we learned with the original authorization of the Iraq war -- when you give this President a blank check, you can't be surprised when he cashes it.

I strongly differ with Sen. Hillary Clinton, who was the only Democratic presidential candidate to support this reckless amendment. We do need to tighten sanctions on the Iranian regime, particularly on Iran's Revolutionary Guard, which sponsors terrorism far beyond Iran's borders. But this must be done separately from any unnecessary saber-rattling about checking Iranian influence with our 'military presence in Iraq.' Above all, it must be done through tough and direct diplomacy with Iran, which I have supported, and which Sen. Clinton has called 'naive and irresponsible.'

Sen. Clinton says she was merely voting for more diplomacy, not war with Iran. If this has a familiar ring, it should. Five years after the original vote for war in Iraq, Sen. Clinton has argued that her vote was not for war -- it was for diplomacy, or inspections. But all of us knew what the Senate was debating in 2002. John Edwards has renounced his own vote for the war, and he should be applauded for his candor. After all, we didn't need to authorize a war in order to have United Nations weapons inspections. No one thought Congress was debating diplomacy. No newspaper headlines ran on Oct. 12, 2002, reading, 'Congress authorizes diplomacy.' This was a vote to authorize war, and without that vote, there would have been no war.

America needs a leader who will make the right judgments about matters as grave as war and peace, and America needs a leader who will be straight with them."
                              -Senator Barack Obama




We need this kind of honesty from our next President, and not yet more cleverly worded War-legislation, War fomenting, War propaganda, hyped-fearmongering, jingoism, and unnecessary Militarism.


____

Hillary: We will have a president who takes their directions from: the PNAC, the AEI, AIPAC, the CFL, the DLC, the International Banking cartel, Pentagon War-Hawks, and Joe Lieberman! Am I right, ladies?


Poll
We need to:
attack IRAN in order to "win" the Occupation of Iraq.
end the damn Occupation of Iraq, and get both the troops and the bloody U.S. Corporations out.

Votes: 6
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (2.00 / 1)



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:36:56 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

So Barack Obama says it is was okay to call the Iranian Revolutionary Guard just days after the vote (which he missed yet again) and is now attacking Hillary Clinton for voting Yea on the Amendment. Who is trying to have it both ways again? Who is pandering?


Restore America's Strength.
by RJEvans on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:44:36 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

No.

The Lieberman-Kly bill is utilizing the IRG to propose a change to the Iraq-based Military objectives, such that Iran is placed in the crosshairs, justified by the Iraq occupation - that we were supposed to be ending(?).



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I did Obama vote on the amendment? (none / 0)

Barack Obama on IRAN, Lieberman-Kyl - How did Obama vote?  Did he put his vote where his mouth is?  

Or he is just making a bunch of hollow meaningless noise?


by dpANDREWS on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:47:04 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

He was campaigning and not near Washington-DC when the vote came up.



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:52:25 PM EST

Fans of Hillary! (1.00 / 2)







For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:54:38 PM EST

Re: Fans of Hillary! (2.00 / 1)

nutroots? well arent you clever.


zombies are coming
by leewesley on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 06:09:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (2.00 / 3)

The amendment opens with 17 findings that highlight Iranian influence within Iraq [Note: The CIA refused to confirm these 'findings'].

You can tell the findings are basically crap because they don't actually "find" anything - they're just quotes like "General Petraeus has said such-and-such about Iran."  Well, I guess that's a true statement, because he really did say such-and-such, but it's a weasely way of implying the quoted statements are true without actually saying so.

It's the same way Bush tried to get away with the infamous "sixteen words" - "the British government has learned" such-and-such, instead of just claiming it's true.  That way, if your lie gets exposed, you can just say "hey, I was only quoting the British government" - which is, in fact, what they ended up arguing!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:54:50 PM EST

Exactly!!! (none / 0)

Good observations!



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:57:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (1.00 / 1)

White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) is reorganizing his campaign, deploying key staff from the Chicago headquarters to Feb. 5 primary states while bolstering the ranks of his top leadership.
The move, Obama advisers told the Sun-Times, has been long planned and is not a reaction to the lead chief rival Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) has in national and early state polls.


Hillary: We will finally have a president who doesn't mind pulling over and asking for directions. Am I right, ladies?
by areyouready on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:55:36 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (2.00 / 1)

Hillary: We will have a president who takes their directions from: the PNAC, the AEI, AIPAC, the CFL, the DLC, the International Banking cartel, Pentagon War-Hawks, and Joe Lieberman! Am I right, ladies?





For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 01:57:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

BWAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Good one!


"If you vote between the lesser of two evils, you're still stuck with evil." - Aaron MacGruder
by Nedsdag on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:12:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (1.00 / 2)

Bush: heh..heh..heh..heh..torture..heh...heh.. heh..heh
Clinton: aw..haw..haw..hee..haw..haw..haw

Bush: heh..heh..heh..stole election..heh..heh..heh..heh
Clinton: aw..haw..haw..hee..haw..haw..haw






For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 02:10:20 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (1.00 / 1)

Derek Larsson makes me reminisce about the people I met when I brought my now 10-yr. old to kindergarten 7 years ago.  You know, the people who were going to be her playmates.   Where has the time gone?  Flown by in a jiffy.

Hey, this is a good refresher course for when I'll enroll my now 2 1/2 year old.  From that vantage point:  Thank you, Derek Larsson.  


by georgep on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wayda second (2.00 / 1)

Derek draws caricatures of politicians.

So you draw a caricature of...Derek?

Aren't you the one who's always saying that politicians are fair game, but fellow members of this community are not?

No soup for you tonight, George!  

:-)


Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com
by Rob in Vermont on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 08:50:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wayda second (none / 0)

Of course they are FAIR GAME.  I did not troll or zero rate the post, just find the "bwahahahaha, hehehehehe" bubbles enormously childish.  I think there is no soup for you tonight if you think it clever satire or some such nonsense.   Of course, I can see a bit of a double standard here, as I am convinced that your reaction would be entirely different if a Clinton supporter wrote diaries bashing Edwards and put childish and nasty quotations in.  

BTW, I did not see you protesting one of the nastiest diaries ever written on this site (at least since I have posted here - the one where Derek Larsson shows pictures of children with blown off arms and bloody stumps, and lays the blame squarely on Clinton's shoulders in one of the most hateful logical lapses I have seen.)   Why is that exactly?   Even handedness be damned or something?  How can I take seriously diaries bemoaning one or the other comment a Clinton supporter makes when on the other end there is complete silence, even agreement, with worse?  


by georgep on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 10:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wayda second (2.00 / 1)

Jiminy Cricket!  Lighten up.  I put a smiley at the end of my post, for Pete's sake.

But now it's back to me being a supporter of John Edwards?  Must everything, everything, be about partisan politics for you?  

Listen to me: when I wrote that diary calling out the commenters who attacked Elizabeth Edwards, it was NOT because those commenters were Clinton supporters, and it was not because the object of their vile partisan attack was Elizabeth Edwards.  It was because those commenters were trying to make political hay of the ill health not of a candidate, but of a candidate's spouse.  

Using ugly war photographs in a polemic against politicians is completely, utterly different. If someone posted war photos to make the argument that we should vote for Obama or Kucinich, rather than Edwards (or Clinton or Dodd or Biden), because Obama and Kucinich were against the war at the same time that those Senators were voting in support of the administration - I would not consider that post beyond the pale, regardless of the fact that it attacks, in a graphically ugly way, the candidate I support. This type of post is polemical; it is a legitimate form of political argument/attack.  It is nothing, nothing like trying to make political hay of the illness of a family member of a politician (which, by the way, one of those commenters did in a highly graphical way, in her case with words, not pictures.)

If you can't see the difference between the two, that's a damn shame.


Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com
by Rob in Vermont on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 09:06:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wayda second (none / 0)

I guess our opinions differ on what is "beyond" and what isn't, but that diary was way beyond the pale for me.  In contrast, while I understand the feelings about nasty comments aimed at EE (and I personally asked the poster to shelve those comments, which he has,) I am not at all sure that getting upset and up in arms over the question whether a candidate's spouses' health could be an issue during the campaign is correct.  It should not be an absolute taboo, although it should be treated carefully.   If Bill Clinton had a health issue next week that required another bypass, I would imagine many would ask how that could effect Hillary Clinton's run, and whether that could be a major distraction, problem, for her, also, the repercussions for issues should she win (Bill Clinton is pegged to be the "World Ambassador," which would obviously change.   I come down on the side that it should not matter a whole lot, that the candidate stands on his, her own, and that spouse's health should be considered a peripheral issue, not really germain to the candidacy itself.  But I think a discussion about that is not out of bounds, is somewhat valid, as it does have far reaching effects that go beyond the candidate him/herself.  Be that as it may, I have avoided any discussion about it, as it seems too emotionally charged, although it generally (if partisan emotions weren't involved) it could be one of many discussion points where neither party found anything wrong in discussing such an issue.  I guess we differ on that point.

As for your post, the pic with "hehehehe, bahahahaha" seemed childish, so I had a post in which I mocked it in a humorous way.  I saw your smiley in regards to the "no soup" comment, but you also claimed that I caricatured Derek, which I found an odd statement.  You really don't see anything remotely childish or juvenile in the use of these cartoons?   Yikes.  We must differ a whole lot, then.  That's cool, just interesting to realize what some posters here go for.  No big deal.


by georgep on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 10:28:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: wayda second (2.00 / 1)

Yes, "Hehehe bahahha" isn't remotely childish, it's proximally childish. You did caricature Derek by suggesting he was reminiscent of a kindergartener.

I find lots of bwahaha's or LOL's in people's comments to be grating and lowers the level of the discussion.

So maybe it's a good idea once in a while to poke to fun at it the way you did. Too much attention to people's style of writing, on the other hand, just gets catty, and is a waste of thread.

Anyway, my post was only half-serious. Maybe even less. I probably shouldn't have even hit "Post".  On the subject of bwahaha's, I think we're actually in full agreement.


Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com
by Rob in Vermont on Fri Oct 12, 2007 at 01:28:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When Will Team Obama Stop Lying? (none / 0)

She didn't say Direct Diplomacy was "Naive and Irresponsible."

She said promising to meet with World Leaders in your first year as President was "Naive and Irresponsible."


by Edgar08 on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 03:10:16 PM EST

Re: When Will Team Obama Stop Lying? (none / 0)

> She said promising to meet with World Leaders in your first year as President was "Naive and Irresponsible."

Hmmm....
And the alternative to meeting with World Leaders would be: a) do nothing...like Bush?,  b) drop bombs?, c) wait until year 2? d) send in Blackwater? ...

Talk about irresponsible!!!

There is nothing "irresponsible" about meeting with World Leaders,
especially after all the damage the United States has created after the last 8 years (which Hillary signed-on to).



For a "surge" in Truth:  Say NO to NeoCons!!!
by DerekLarsson on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 04:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

I support Hillary because she has more free fried chicken at her events. Obama serves that Whole Foods crap. She has the black vote on lock!!!!


by NewNoir on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 03:22:31 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

Thats just a disgusting comment.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 03:49:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

It's not a disgusting comment.

Hillary playing the class card is like Barry Bonds playing the clean living card.


"If you vote between the lesser of two evils, you're still stuck with evil." - Aaron MacGruder
by Nedsdag on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

I love Aaron MacGruder!!!!  He has rightly called out BET for its disgusting portrayals and showcasing of the lowest aspects of what goes for "black culture."

No wonder Bob Johnson, BET's founder (and pimper of the race) has endorsed Hillary.

Did you catch this Boondocks episode?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT0yfnbpf c8


by NewNoir on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:54:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

that episode is so viciously brilliant


zombies are coming
by leewesley on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 06:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

it was...I was laughing out loud, but still crying inside. Most of the people around here wouldn't understand.


by NewNoir on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 06:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (2.00 / 1)

Even though I support a different candidate Obama is absolutely right about this. It is good to see him call Clinton out for her warmonger posturing. He needs to do much more of this. Hillary is not the inevitable nominee.


If it's good enough for Joey it's good enough for Hillary! Like two peas in a pod.
by Hillary Lieberman on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 03:50:52 PM EST

And I Just Remembered (none / 0)

Obama's own supporter, Dick Durbin, has said it can't, in any way, be construed by anyone as a "blank check."

It's unfortunate that because Obama has not been able to make a sufficient case for himself that his cases against others have now widened to such a degree as to include one of his own supporters.

I suspect Sen. Durbin's a veteran of Electoral Politics and won't take Obama's Mis-Representation of Kyl/Lieberman Personally.


by Edgar08 on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 03:57:13 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (2.00 / 1)

This is NON-BINDING.  The reason Obama was AWOL for this vote is clear:  He co-sponsored a BINDING bill in April that condemned the Republican Guard as a terrorist organization and could easily have been construed by Bush as admission (if you are going to argue this way.)   It shows the utmost hypocrisy and desperation to now argue the way Obama does.

By the definition put forth by Derek Larsson Obama is a warmonger.  


by georgep on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:51:11 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (2.00 / 1)

Well, the 17 findings, which I commented on above, really do make a difference.

I didn't really have the time to do a diary on the differences between the two bills, but the other bill was quite clearly a straight-up sanctions and economic pressure bill.  I don't know if it was good policy, but Bush sure would have had a hard time dropping any bombs based on that bill.

Not that the earlier bill ever came to a vote, mind you.  I think it was the obligatory "co-sponsor this to show you're not a wuss on Iran" bill, or something.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 05:59:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

America thinks differently, considering she has over twice the support for her candidacy than he has.  And please, if he thought the vote on the Iranian Guard was so important, he should have SHOWED up to vote on it.  It shows poor leadership for him to be harping on it now when he didn't even bother to be there when the vote was first taken.


by reasonwarrior on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:08:24 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

Kyl/Lieberman was more about Israel than Iran.  More about internal fractions within the Bush administration than about policy in the Middle East.  And it was definitely more about AIPAC's clout in Congress in an election campaign than is was about the positions of various candidates.

Durbin and Hillary voted for it for the same reasons, it has no binding legal provisions yet gives them a pass with AIPAC in an election year.  Obama declined to vote for compelling reasons.  The activist US pro-Israel lobby has significant leverage on US Middle East policy and does not always represent the interests of the Israeli electorate.  I think he made a sensible and principled move.  He is the only other Democratic senator with a credible chance of winning the nomination.  His action speaks volumes.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:14:14 PM EST

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

I dunno if Obama had "compelling reasons."  According to this post I saw today at the Politico, Obama told Wolf Blitzer it was a "scheduling snafu."


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

Steve M. writes:

I dunno if Obama had "compelling reasons." According to this post I saw today at the Politico, Obama told Wolf Blitzer it was a "scheduling snafu."

The day before the vote, Reid tabled the amendment on and it was not expected to come up for vote. The next day he brought it up and voted on it in less than 1 hour. Obama was campaigning in NH at the time, and did so because no vote was expected.

So kudos for HRC for never missing an opportunity to vote neocon.

by PD1769 on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

Search me, I didn't see what he told Wolf Blitzer.

By the way, the 10 Senators who voted against the war in Iraq and voted for this amendment, are they also neocons?  Just wondering, since this was apparently such an inexcusable vote.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 07:47:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama puts Hillary to shame. (none / 0)

I can't speak for Obama, and the scheduling was at short notice, apparently, but I can understand how voting against this bill could have been an issue with the pro-Israel lobby.  This is a lobbyist instigated amendment, plain and simple, and it is intended to break an impasse within the Bush administration, not in the Middle East.  I would assess the yeas and nays on the basis of who is facing an election this year and in what constituencies.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Oct 11, 2007 at 08:10:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.