Republican primary news

Brownback and Giuliani are both getting in, and either could win the nomination, but both seem a longshot as well, with McCain, Romney the CW favorites, and possibly Gingrich. Though Giuliani leads in the national polls as of late (Brownback is in low single-digits), is there anyway that Giuliani is really going to have a shot at the Republican nomination? Michael Tomasky jumps ahead more than a year, to South Carolina, doing ad copy.

My guess is that South Carolina isn't as important for Republicans in '08 as it was in '00, as there are a slew of states holding primaries and caucuses that date, it's just not going to have the date alone. Remember their calendar:

January 21: Iowa
January 28: New Hampshire
February 5: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, and West Virginia.

Back to Iowa, I'm betting that either the "favorite son of the religious right" (Sam Brownback) or "the other man from Hope" (Mike Huckabee) are going to finish above Giuliani in Iowa. I used to think it was Huckabee, but now believe that Brownback -- "a Catholic revered by the GOP's conservative wing for his opposition to abortion and gay marriage" -- has the opening. He describes himself: "I am an economic, a fiscal, a social and a compassionate conservative." If he can organize, especially among catholics in IA, he is going to emerge as the movement conservative in Iowa.

What Giuliani might do in IA, is take enough votes away from McCain, that it lets someone like Brownback slip through with the win. It's tough to see Giuliani, as oppossed to the NH primary where he can grab Indy's, get traction in IA; but for Brownback, he's got to do fantastic organizing for the straw poll event in IA to go further. Here's more and more from Iowa, and eye too.



Display:


February 5th (3.00 / 2)

That makes about 27% of the country voting for the Republican nominee on February 5th alone. It will be very, very surprising if we don't know the Republican nominee on February 6th.

If there is going to be major primary reform, it will happen jointly betweent he two parties at the 2008 conventions.
by Chris Bowers on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:04:52 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

I'd forgotten Brownback had converted to the RCC. I think it was Opus Dei's DC pastor/lobbyist who did it (And I swear I once read Bob Woodward also converted, but I can't find that info now, so maybe I hallucinated it). That could also boost him in the NJ Republican primary, no? Maybe New Mexico? I don't really know the make up of their Republican primary voters, but I don't think, when all is said and done, either McCain or Giuliani will be the '08 nominee.


by BlueinColorado on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:07:09 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

You're probably thinking of Novak as the convert. Also Lawrence Kudlow of CNBC among the others.

But I wonder how Brownback's conversion from right-wing evangelical will play among the base. Those who won't vote for a Mormon probably won't vote for him either.


by joyful alternative on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:21:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (3.00 / 1)

I don't know, Bush has programmed the right to think of traditional Catholics as almost as good as Evangelicals.

They love Roberts, Alito and Scalia, for instance.

I thing Brownback has the inside track as the "conservative face" for 2008.


by Bush Bites on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 02:01:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

That's probably why McCain hired all those thugs that trashed him in '00, plus the guy who ran that Ford ad. It's to make sure every evangelical primary voter knows that Giuliani and Brownback are Catholic, and Romney is Mormon.


by Gpack3 on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 03:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

Plus Brownback's Opus Dei, so the rumors that can be spread are endless.


by joyful alternative on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 04:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

Jerome,
I enjoy reading your posts but you're taking the lead from the MSM in  your concentration on the 08 presidential race. With so many important policy issues at hand before the country & congressional Democrats, don't you think its premature to try to divine the tea leaves 2 year out. Things change dramatically from month to month & with the primaries so far away, we're really talking about the most meaningless speculation at this point in time.

My small suggestion is let's focus on what policies Democrats should pursue currently, how to frame them & what policies Democratic presidential should run on in 08. An examination of what the various candidates have as the central pieces of their campaign also would be useful in a few months.

I say this with the greatest respect, as I really enjoy your pieces. But, this focus on the horse race - which is what the MSM is all about - before there really is a race is the weakest kind of fluff.


by carter1 on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:07:30 PM EST

But realistically, you know we all love it. :) (none / 0)

And to be honest, the primary season is a lot closer than you might think -- just over a year before the actual votes.  

Personally, I disagree with Jerome on the Giuliani front -- I think he's got a much better chance than the conventional wisdom says.  He may only get 20 or 25 percent support from GOP primary voters, but in a crowded field where he's perceived as the only moderate/liberal, that could be enough (given the momentum factor in a hyper-crowded schedule).  Frankly, in the unlikely event that McCain doesn't run, I think Giuliani has a great shot.  With McCain, it's less likely, but still got a decent shot.

But I digress... I agree with you on the issues, but really thought Jerome's take on Iowa was pretty perceptive, and it's gotten me thinking. And I hope to see more.  

Let's focus on the critical issues (stem cells is the big one for me, and I'm fighting as we speak), but the horse race will always be fun to discuss, even as a slight diversion.


by jhlinko on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 02:58:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

"don't you think its premature to try to divine the tea leaves 2 year out."

no, it's the reason why I started blogging in the first place.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 03:27:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

Chris,

I've a former political science professor, living in Philly. I'm very concerned about the upcoming mayoral race & would like to talk to you about the yardstick for whom progressives could support.

I get the impression you're positive on Nutter & would like to talk to you about why he's a bad candidate for progressives to rally behind.


by carter1 on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:12:48 PM EST

If McCain gets shut out in the first two... (none / 0)

could he still win the nomination?  I'd love to see him not be the nominee, and I'd love to see Brownback or Gingrich as it.


by Terryus on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:44:29 PM EST

Re: If McCain gets shut out in the first two... (none / 0)

To indulge in psychologizing.....R's are even more susceptible to front-runner syndrome than D's.   The impulse to rally around a winner is stronger, it's part of their seige-herd mentality.   If a single person wins both Iowa and NH, that will be big.

The strange thing about McCain is that he has improved, IMO, in his chances in the primary and worsened in his chances for the general (were he to win nomination).  Iraq is a huge albatross for him.  Plus he looks old.  

Subjectively, somehow the joy seems gone from him, although he was great in 2000.  

Of Brownback and Huckabee, who might conservatives "fall in love with?"  Some say Huckabee, but he strikes me as soft.  How is Brownback on the stump?    One of these two will need to rake in bucks to emerge as the anti-McCain; there could be a movement to make this happen.  

Generally I have always rejected CW on McCain and Romney, for multiple reasons.  Romney has next to no chance, and Giuliani has no chance at their nomination, and it's clear that the knives are out for Rudy, and there is so much to go after.  It will be fun to watch.   The whole thing will be fun to watch.


by Andmoreagain on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 01:59:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

I'm a little skeptical that catholic organizing is gonna do it for Brownback.  While eastern Iowa does have a strong catholic population, it's more of a Democratic-leaning Irish Catholic group and I don't know how much of the Republican caucus they make up.  Iowa is a lot more Lutheran, and the conservative Christian activists tend more toward the evangelical side of things.  I think Brownback will do well with them too (I mean hell, look at Gary Bauer and Alan Keyes in '00) but of course like most conservative activists their support is for sale - Marlys Popma anyone?


Bleeding Heartland - Iowa's Progressive Community-oriented blog
by ItsDrewMiller on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 02:27:18 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

Doesn't it go, Catholic, Methodist, Lutheran, in terms of numbers.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 03:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist I believe.  My impression has always been that we have a somewhat more liberal Catholic population here than nationwide, but it's only an impression and I could be completely wrong - I do live in Ames, which is not exactly representative of the rest of the state.  Looking at a map of dominant county religions it does seem like Lutheran is in the most conservative areas, though.


Bleeding Heartland - Iowa's Progressive Community-oriented blog
by ItsDrewMiller on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 06:01:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (3.00 / 1)

There appears to be a minimum of 25 percent available to the theocratic candidate in the Iowa Republican Caucuses.   In 2000,  Gary Bauer and Alan Keyes combined for nearly 23 percent despite the fact that neither was a credible candidate.
In 1996  Bob Dole won the caucuses with only 26 percent of the vote while Pat Buchanan pulled 23 percent and Alan Keyes again drew 7 percent.  The clearest demonstration of the size of the theocratic bloc in the Iowa was 1988 when Reverend Pat Robertson pulled in 24.6 percent of the vote.

So the goal for Brownback in Iowa is only to be seen as the sole theocratic candidate and perhaps add a few points to the 23-25 percent base and then hope that the Guiliani and McCain split the neo-con vote pretty evenly.  

The traditional thinking is that only 3 candidates get tickets out of the Iowa caucuses into NH and Brownback is likely to have one of them.  


by AlanR on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 02:48:09 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)


More than that.  Forbes pulled 30%.  So economic amd social conservatives combined totaled 53% (only badly split).  Combining the two will be a real task.
by David Kowalski on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 11:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

I'm starting to like Brownback's chances to win the nomination. If Giuliani and Romney stay in the race, the votes for the moderate could split three-ways, and let Brownback slip in with solid support from the theocrats. I could see this happen in both Iowa and New Hampshire, especially with Romney getting favorite son votes.


by Gpack3 on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 03:47:47 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

In New Hampshire it might be Newt Gingrich joining the mix.    I don't think there will be a big theocratic bloc in NH (nothing comparable to Iowa and South Carolina) but there is a large bloc of what I'd call paleo-conservatives who don't believe in unnecessary foreign intervention or deficit spending.  If Romney/Guilliani/McCain are still slugging it out and splitting the neo-con vote, Gingrich might sneak out the win here.

This could devastate McCain and Romney who might both be expected to be favorites (McCain because he won big here in 2000 and Romney because he was governor of Massachusetts).  


by AlanR on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 06:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let us pray ... (none / 0)

As Brownback no doubt often says ... and hope this religioso whack-job gets the GOP nod.  Anyone but Hillary would clobber him.  If it's Saint McCain, we lose.  Yeah, he'll be tied to the war ... but who will report it?  Read Media matters on the latest ass-kissing this old fuck received recently, and contrast it with the grilling Edwards already gets. Go Sam!  We love you, man!


by tangerine on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 04:37:22 PM EST

Re: Let us pray ... (none / 0)

Hillary would clobber him too.

"Yeah, he'll be tied to the war ... but who will report it"

Perhaps one of his primary opponents or his opponent in the general election.


by Gpack3 on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 07:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tommy Thompson (none / 0)

20-25% in Iowa.




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 06:11:19 PM EST

Re: Tommy Thompson (none / 0)

Is this a prediction or a poll? If it's the latter, where are you getting it?


by Gpack3 on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 07:51:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

January 21: Iowa
January 28: New Hampshire
February 5: Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Michigan, Missouri, New Jersey, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, and West Virginia.

NH, and to a lesser extent IA, has become essentially meaningless for 2008 GOP candidates.  The question is, which of the 14 states whose primary is on 2/5 is the gatekeeper(s)?

Given that there is almost an equal balance between wing-nut and swing states and that some of these states have been represented by those likely to run (AZ-McCain, AR-Huckabee, OK-Keating) it is unlikely that one candidate will sweep all states.  It looks like whoever wins two out of FL, MI, and MO will have the inside edge to win the nomination.  Interestingly, these aren't exactly wing-nut states; so does this mean that the GOP will nominate a "moderate"?  I say, no.  The GOP nomination will not be settled until later in the primary season.  It will be a blood bath.


by shlenny on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 06:42:03 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

Looking at February 5th, Arizona will go to McCain, Arkansas to Huckabee and Utah to Romney. Michigan seems likely to go to McCain and proximity to Arizona might net him NM.

South Carolina, Alabama and possibly North Carolina are likely to go as a bloc, due to the similar populations of primary voters.

That leaves Florida, Missouri, New Jersey, North Dakota, Oklahoma (there's no concrete evidence Keating's running, and since the field is crowded enough already and I know next to nothing about him I'm excluding him from these calculations) and West Virginia. What are primary voters in these states like in terms of the wingnut quotient and the type of wingnut (Dixiecrat, neo-con, theocrat or libertarian)?


Visit Forgotten Countries, my new foreign policy-based blog
by Englishlefty on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 07:06:13 PM EST

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

The other thing to factor in is whom is voting, caucus, or closed or open primary.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 08:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Republican primary news (none / 0)

...also the cost of ad buys.


by shlenny on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 10:05:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So, who's the anointed one? (none / 0)

We know that's how it works.  Nobody comes out of the pack to win the GOP nomination.  

Looks like McCain, doesn't it?

Weird not to have George Allen in the field anymore. Gone but not missed.

What that 14-state super-primary does, just two weeks after Iowa and one week after NH, is that it requires a lot of money to contest more than a few of those states.  It doesn't matter that much if McCain loses both Iowa and New Hampshire; unless he commits some massive gaffe, he'll be able to show up in all 14 states, win five or six of them (along with a healthy trove of delegates), and be in the lead.

A second-tier candidate that wins in Iowa or NH won't have time to actually set up an organization in those Feb 5 states.  Hell, the NH winner might not get money fast enough to run TV ads.


by RT on Sat Jan 06, 2007 at 09:06:35 PM EST

SC Republican Primary (none / 0)

Jerome,

Wikipedia's wrong on the GOP primary in SC.  The date hasn't been set yet.  The SCGOP is determined to have the "first in the South" primary again in 2008, regardless of the RNC's wishes.

Right now they're talking about holding it on Saturday, February 2, 2008.

SCGOP Chair Katon Dawson said recently, "I would rather stay in my hotel room and watch the proceedings on television ... than surrender our position (on the primary calendar)."


by Laurin from SC on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 03:48:49 PM EST

Re: SC Republican Primary (none / 0)

Right, I forgot about that, they'll likley move it up, at least on the GOP side, is what I heard.


by Jerome Armstrong on Sun Jan 07, 2007 at 08:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.