Accountability in 2008

In all the nice buzz about her announcement, I can't forget Hillary Clinton's ultimate failure.  Here's part of the speech.

In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad.

In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001.

It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security.

Now this much is undisputed. The open questions are: what should we do about it? How, when, and with whom?

...

Over eleven years have passed since the UN called on Saddam Hussein to rid himself of weapons of mass destruction as a condition of returning to the world community. Time and time again he has frustrated and denied these conditions. This matter cannot be left hanging forever with consequences we would all live to regret. War can yet be avoided, but our responsibility to global security and to the integrity of United Nations resolutions protecting it cannot. I urge the President to spare no effort to secure a clear, unambiguous demand by the United Nations for unlimited inspections.

And finally, on another personal note, I come to this decision from the perspective of a Senator from New York who has seen all too closely the consequences of last year's terrible attacks on our nation. In balancing the risks of action versus inaction, I think New Yorkers who have gone through the fires of hell may be more attuned to the risk of not acting. I know that I am.

So it is with conviction that I support this resolution as being in the best interests of our nation. A vote for it is not a vote to rush to war; it is a vote that puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President and we say to him - use these powers wisely and as a last resort. And it is a vote that says clearly to Saddam Hussein - this is your last chance - disarm or be disarmed.

In 2002, Senator Clinton failed her most significant test as a Senator.  She failed it badly.  And she failed it for the next five years, until her Presidential campaign started, and she realized Iraq would still be on the table.  She's telling top donors her two priorities are going to be health care and climate change, despite failing to do anything meaningful on either priority as first lady or superstar Senator.

I was surprised by her announcement.  She glossed right over her own complicity in the last six years, her own lack of leadership on Iraq, the signature issue of our time.  John Edwards has addressed the problem head on, admitting he was wrong, and Barack Obama ran an antiwar progressive primary campaign for Senate in 2003.  Neither of these figures have the baggage she does on Iraq.  Ironically, as inexperienced as Edwards and Obama are, and as little as they have gotten done, Clinton is just as empty if not more so.  She has a fairly good voting record, better than Edwards, but no major accomplishments.  Her website used to be peppered with petty legislation she co-sponsored with Republicans, not instances she 'stood up to' Bush.  

Senator Clinton can be a great leader, but to date, she hasn't been anything of the sort, having coasted on her name, connections, and intelligence.  Can she win?  Any of them can win, and she's better positioned than anyone else right now.  Can she be a great or even just good president?  Right now, based on her track record of personal survival married to policy and judgment failure, it's hard to see her doing a good job.  And I'm honestly not sure what to look for to suggest that she could be a good President.

Anyone have ideas?  I'm particularly looking for anti-Clinton people to name what she could do to gain your support.



Display:


Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I want to see an apology. Straight out. That will go a long way for me. I want to an explanation from her on why she failed to do enough to take active leadership in strenghtening the progressive base of the party she wants to represent as a LEADER. If she is unable to admit to her blunders, what is there to indicate that she won't repeat the same blunders in the future.

All I see is a defensive disingenuous half hearted mea culpa of sorts. The fact finding misssion was a farce just to give her an excuse to change her stance on Iraq without having to admit the extent of her past blunders. She used that trip to say "see, things changed. I am not blind to reality. So I will now oppose trop escalation." Give me a freaking break.


by Pravin on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:10:34 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I agree. The only way she can get past this is to address it in a straightforward manner.


by KimPossible on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Kos said it best : She's a leader who refuses to lead.

There's nothing she could do to win my support in a primary.  Her in the race will hurt down ballot candidates in smaller races, for sure.


by Sam Loomis on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:12:56 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

She has the biggest megaphone in the party. For her, leadership must mean using that megaphone against Bush & co. Pick a republican, any republican, and hit them. Here's a good opportunity: if/when Lieberman filibusters an anti-surge senate resolution, she should go on television and kick his a$$ and then lead the effort to kill the filibuster. That would genuinely impress me.

SIDE NOTE: MacAuliffe was on the Today show this morning pimping Hillary and claiming that she'd been  "one of the earliest critics" of Bush on Iraq. The Clinton spin machine is whirr-ing into action.


by blueflorida on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:25:23 AM EST

How to win my support (none / 0)

1. Do you support universal health care that does not place an undue burden on the individual as the MA and CA plans do?

2. Do you support efforts to stop the current world economic order that favors a race to the bottom in wage, worker, and environmental standards?

3. Do you support fully publicly funded campaigns so that we can finally break the link between money and politicians?


by adamterando on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:35:15 AM EST

The answer to the 3rd question (none / 0)

appears to be an resounding NO

Hotline link

They point out that with this appeal for $ she is the first to reject Federal matching funds

Also, check page 135 of Jerome Armstrong's and Markos' book "Crashing The Gate" for her take on campaign finance reform - she is described as "exploding" and shouting at Russ Feingold:
"Russ, live in the real world" - the subject was fundraising


by merbex on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:49:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The answer to the 3rd question (none / 0)

I think what she meant to say to Feingold was,

"Russ, live in my world!"

Meaning, the best political risk to take is no risk at all.


by adamterando on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:31:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I actually left out what came next (none / 0)

and I shouldn't have;on page 135 after the part of her shouting at Russ Feingold the paragraph goes on to state:

"Feingold stood his ground. While Clinton and Feingold reportedly made nice later with apologies all around, a Democratic source told Roll Call,"It was riveting -it was wonderful. It was like a genie out of a bottle - somebody actually told Russ Feingold to go fuck himself"(Roll Coll omitted the expletive). Feingold told Roll Call that at least 5 other Senators also "threw a fit."

a 'Democratic source'- wonder who that was?

Anyway, I'd love to see her try to answer the #3 question from above knowing all this


by merbex on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:44:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Now that I look at your list again (none / 0)

I cannot believe that she would do anything to jeopardize Bill Clinton's NAFTA treaty;will she go so far as to admit that it hasn't lived up to it's hype?

(putting it mildly)


by merbex on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:49:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Interesting that she picked climate change as one of her top two priorities.  If she took a really bold stand on climate change -- joining Leahy-Sanders, for example, and making it the centerpiece of her record -- then I'd give her another look.

Like Stephen Hawkings said last week, I think climate change is a much greater threat to our way of life than terrorism.


by ri on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:07:21 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Maybe she's preemptively fighting off a late Gore entry.


Rudy Giuliani hates firefighters. And puppies.
by Fran for Dean on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:13:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

That's what I was thinking. Who would be hurt the most by Gore jumping in? I'd say possibly Edwards, but definitely Clinton. Bill's wife and his VP running for the same nomination? lots of clash.


Progress is Personal | PCCC
by msnook on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 02:09:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I kinda wonder if it was a backroom deal - since she's the supposedly presumtive nominee assuming Gore didn't run, and climate change is Gore's thing, he gave the nod and wink that if she made it a major part of her campaign he would stay out.

Unlikely, but seems odd to me that she would jump on the climate change thing as a major focus of her campaign with no real history of it in her past - unless it focus grouped and polled well, in which case she would say full steam ahead.


by Ugluks Flea on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I want to see some boldness of rhetoric, at the very least. I doubt I'd ever support her in the primary, but I'm not rabidly anti-Hillary. But I'd need to see some real evidence of leadership.

I think it was Ariana Huffington who said something like Hillary has a scent of "Eau Du Don't Let Me Screw This Up" wafting about her. She just reeks of caution and calculation.


by BriVT on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:10:11 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I am not going to hold my breath.

She is saying just what the donors of that $30 million want her to say.

There is nothing there for the middle and lower class folks in America because they are hoping to scam us again.

Lefty!!!


Rush is an orc and... Thank God losing his audience!
by LeftyLimblog on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:35:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (3.00 / 1)

Amazing the number of disgruntled netroots progressives who demand that Hillary apologize exactly as they demand, according to their wishes, right now!!  The apology doesn't have to be sincere - just the words will do - and then what?  You will suddenly let her back into your purist hemisphere?

Do you think she's stupid?  Do you think her staff don't read mydd.com daily, not to mention dkos and huffington, etc.?  You guys are going to stab her in the neck no matter what she does and you all effin' know it.

Give me a break.  And then do a little research to see what she's been saying about Iraq for a very long time now, because you obviously don't have a clue.

Boo hoo.  Sniff sniff.  Hillary betrayed the small sliver of the grassroots who wouldn't have voted for her anyway, no matter what.

Grow up.

Watch this post get rejected.


by marycontrary on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:14:14 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I guess your post did not get rejected because I am commenting on it.

To me, Hillary represents the 'great white hope' in boxing lingo of the 'top downers'.

Where did Hillary's reported $30 million dollar warchest come from? I doubt it was from the little people giving their "widow's mite".

She is never going to be a grassroots candidate and no amount of phony web outreach is going to change that.

That leaves us with defeating her in the primaries as the only option to resurrect grassroots populism control over the 'know-it-alls' in the DC/NY axis of evil.

Sniff, sniff, sniff, we're here, we're in gear, , we are not going away, get used to it.

Lefty!!!


Rush is an orc and... Thank God losing his audience!
by LeftyLimblog on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:25:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

and which candidate is not in the DC axis?

Obama and Edwards certainly are.

Biden for sure, Dodd, Kerry of course.

Richardson is the closest to not being in it, but he has served as a congressman and cabinet secretary.

Get real.


by texasdemocrat06 on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:37:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I could do without the irritatingly snide attitude (seriously, do you think you can ever expect a thoughtful response when you're practically spitting at us?), but I agree with the substance of this. We're dangling the prospect of absolution in front of her when we're never going to grant it.

The best thing would have been to be brave and oppose the war in the first place (which I suppose Obama did, though he hardly had anything to lose at the time). The second best would have been to apologize and call for a change of policy as soon as possible upon realizing that it was a lost cause (which Edwards did). But Hillary unwisely gambled that she would never be held accountable for a bad call, and an apology is simply no longer enough to get me back on her side. She'd have to do something else, possibly even something entirely unrelated to Iraq, that shows courage and leadership--her actions so far have demonstrated nothing but cowardice.

I'd vote for her in the general with few reservations, but right now we would clearly do better with Edwards, Obama or Richardson.


by epenthesis on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:15:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Oh yes ... Arianna Huffington.  The biggest political whore on the planet, next to Coulter.
Once Hillary starts hitting the trail, and Bill and Chelsea will be doing the same, there is going to be a groundswell of support for her candidacy like you wouldn't believe.

But don't do the research and find out why.

Just keep waiting for Hillary to kiss your poor injured progressive psyches.  Your psyches got kissed by John Edwards when he realized he wanted to run for President in 2008 and immediately issued an apology for his Iraq vote.  He's as sincere as a wading pool is shallow.

Feeling a little testy today. Sorry. But I mean every word.  


by marycontrary on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:19:55 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Good luck with that attitude. Making 'Insult and Crush the Netroots' an election strategy is a novel strategy by the top-downers.

In the 2004 presidential election cycle it was 'take their money, ignore them and do what top-downers always do' - that did not work too well.

We are a permanent and growing part of the Democratic Party's coalition, so the sooner we are offered a real seat at the table, the sooner the Democratic Party wins BIG.


Rush is an orc and... Thank God losing his audience!
by LeftyLimblog on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:32:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Your attitude does your preferred candidate no service.


by BriVT on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:44:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

If I'm correct-- and based on style, I'm pretty confident on that score-- this is the same poster who absolutely plagues Salon's Table Talkers in the presidential folder, putting entire threads for other candidates into hibernation with her taunts and insults... other posters seem to wait until they think she's gone away to resume conversation.  It's trollish, but of course it's fairly easy for people to counterbalance that behavior with a few token attempts at legitimacy.


by latts on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:57:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Certainly seems trollish ... but it's the first time I've seen him/her (hir?) so, I generally give one response before switching the poster over to "ignore" status.

Is she/he always ranting pro-Hillary?


by BriVT on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:52:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Her most recent post on the Gore thread there (it's my understanding that it's common on other threads, too, but my own participation is limited) was a link to Janis Joplin's rendition of "Cry Baby," and that's one of her nicer posts as far as I can tell.  The user ID is not identical, so it's possible that there's more than one insufferably snide & combative Mary-- it's a common name, of course-- who's a major Hillary fan and likes to, um, take her fight to other candidates' supporters.  


by latts on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:41:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I doubt we'll see a groundswell of support (none / 0)

Kos is right--people have had 15 years to make their minds up about Hillary. Nothing she does now will change people's minds, though you think their attitudes may be unfair.


Join the Iowa progressive community at Bleeding Heartland.
by desmoinesdem on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:25:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Your name-calling isn't going to win you many converts.


by howieinseattle on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:50:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As Apostropher put it over in Unfogged... (none / 0)

It isn't just video games and flag burning. She has defended the Defense of Marriage Act, supported building a wall along the Mexican border, supported the Israeli wall in the Palestinian territories, supported the PATRIOT Act, supports the death penalty, opposes single-payer healthcare, only Santorum got more money from the insurance industry last cycle, she voted for the godawful bankruptcy bill, voted for Bush's energy bill, and of course, she still can't bring herself to say the Iraq War was a mistake.

What am I supposed to find appealing here? We do have actual Democrats we could run for president.

I couldn't have said it better myself.


by Arkhangel on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:28:21 AM EST

Re: As Apostropher put it over in Unfogged... (none / 0)

I think she and Biden would make a dream ticket - both advocates of debtors' prisons as a way to deal with Credit Card usury . . .


by ductile on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:25:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As Apostropher put it over in Unfogged... (none / 0)

She actually didn't vote for the bankruptcy bill. She didn't vote.

I wonder, does anyone know who voted for that bill? Because there's a lot of misinformation going around.


Further Reading
by Dave Sund on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:30:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Gore could not be positioned more perfectly--expect him to announce in May and the blogosphere and grassroots to explode in support.  
www.minor-ripper.blogspot.com
The Ripper www.minor-ripper.blogspot.com
by MinorRipper on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:34:37 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

don't think so. why do you think so?


by howieinseattle on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:52:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

" She failed it badly."

As did Edwards.

So how much did you send to Obama, the only candidate who succeeded?

It certainly gives him the best demarcation from McCain for the presidential election.

McCain's "expertise" and "experience" was proven worthless as he made the wrong decision on what has proven to be the greatest US military and political disaster since Vietnam.

In on shot, Obama can neutralize two of McCain's main claims.


by BrionLutz on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:48:59 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Yes, but Edwards realized that he got it wrong and apologized--sincerely, and early (more than a year ago--before most of the Dems who voted for the war, certainly).  You can doubt whether or not it was sincere, but think of it this way--if Edwards does get in, he's going to know who put him there--and it will be, to a large degree, people who opposed the Iraq war.  He'll be forced to listen to us, much more so than Hillary would be.


Nerding out on politics since 2002
by meelar on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:39:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

A certain amount of selfishness, I don't mind in a candidate.  How many people survive long in politics as candidates without a substantial measure of narcissism and histrionics?

She's got her enormous cash pile, and refused to use any meaningful slice of it to support other Democrats in 06, even with the understanding that she would reap a benefit from such support through an increased pool of donors and political support that cannot otherwise be purchased.  In this she is truly the embodiment of her husband's political philosophy, the antithesis of team spirit.

What could she do to get my primary support?  Nothing in the realm of the politically possible.  Pelosi would be a better choice for President than Hillary; at least she knows something about team play.  Barring that, if I actually change my registration from Libertarian to Democratic this year, which I may well do, Bill Richardson would be my likeliest choice.

Besides - just how badly do we need the executive branch to have a Bush or a Clinton in one of the top two slots for 36 years straight?


by Crablaw on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:52:37 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

On what basis do you say in your last paragraph that she "can be a great leader?"  What is your eveidence?  

The real eveidence is to the contrary.  Her big chance to show leadership was on health care and she failed miserably on all levels.  And if health care is a big issue in 2008, how can she possibly run given that she so clearly destroyed her credib8ility on this issue?

Dipsop


by dipsop on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 09:56:04 AM EST

Actions, not words... (none / 0)

Hillary has let things sit for too long, I personally think.  The longer she as refused to come forward and address many of the issues regarding the Bush Administration, given the amount of "five hundred pound gorilla" momentum she can bring to the table, the higher the ante goes, at least among the folks willing to do grunt work on behalf of candidates, to support her.

Of course, this may all be irrellevent.  I suspect she'll just roll over any opposition with endless appeals via the media and advertising, and we'll get another version of "Kerry's the only electible candidate", as we did in 2004, drowning out all other messages.

But if she wants me to sit up and take notice, I won't settle for anything less than publicly declaring that all funding for the Iraq escalation must be ceased, even if it means stopping all funding for the war in general, then actually backing up her words with real action/support  behind Senator's Kennedy's recent activities.

My two bits...


by palamedes on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:17:37 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I agree completely with your assessment of her greatest failure. What I want is a strong president with the sensibility of Arthur Silber regarding the war. Hillary has blood on her hands.

As for health care, the last time she tried that, she stayed stuck to the insurance industry and made a botch of it. I'd be pretty goddamn scared if she actually DID have the power to concoct a health care plan. As far as that goes, things are so permanently fucked in this cruel excuse for a caring country that I don't see how anybody gets unversal coverage enacted. The medical/industrial complex is totally corrupt and has a finger in everybody's pie.

Frankly, there's nothing to be done with any of this (politics, Hillary, health care, Iraq, etc.) except to stay healthy, live as long as God wants, and hope to die clean. Everything else is bullshit.


by John from Taos on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:17:45 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

I don't know what salons table talkers are, if the reference above was about me.

The thing is with Hillary Clinton, it's like throwing the baby away with the bathwater. I don't get it.  She has spoken out against the President and his war constantly, even riling Mehlman and Rove to the point where they called her too angry to run for President, but that didn't stop her from continuing her criticisms, one of them timed perfectly just before Bush's SOTU address last year.

My pet issue (I have many by the way) is education including early-education. I think the neglect of our public schools is the root cause of many of our problems today and I'd like to have a president who considers it important too and Hillary does. She's done a lot of work in this regard and is strong, generally, on domestic policy, as well as foreign policy. In other words, well-rounded as a candidate. I don't see this in John Edwards although I wouldn't cry too hard if he became our next President.


by marycontrary on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:18:56 AM EST

I would cry if Hillary became President (3.00 / 1)

That's because of the lost opportunity.

We stand at a very important time in our nation's history. America has grown tired of the Reagan revolution and the rise of conservatism. After almost 20 years, they are starting be open again to the Democratic message.  If we can find a really solid progressive, we have a chance to make the next generation a Democratic/progressive one. Hillary won't do that. She will only care about her own election and re-election.  As she said herself in her recent announcement, she is "in to win."  She's not in to help people, end the war or restore Democracy. She is merely "in to win."


by exLogCabin on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:35:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

palamedes wrote: (none / 0)

"But if she wants me to sit up and take notice, I won't settle for anything less than publicly declaring that all funding for the Iraq escalation must be ceased, even if it means stopping all funding for the war in general, then actually backing up her words with real action/support  behind Senator's Kennedy's recent activities."

I understood that Congress cannot stop the funding for the escalation. Nancy Pelosi was very clear about that. The money has been appropriated already.  


by marycontrary on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:22:59 AM EST

Health care was a good start (none / 0)

I'm not giddy about voting for Clinton.  But, the current primary field is a total joke.

You know it's a thin field when a first term Senator (Obama) is considered a serious contender.

Right now, I'm leaning Bill Richardson, because come January 2009 this country is going to need a serious adult to start fixing a lot of junk.  Since both Richardson and Clinton are going to bring in a lot of the same staff, it's only reasonable to lean toward the candidate with the resume.

If Clinton wants my vote in the primary (of course, I live in PA, so it's not like my primary vote will really matter) she needs to start doing something of real merit.  You see Richardson adopt the nuclear issue.  You see Gore adopt the climate crisis.  

And Clinton is trying health care.  We'll have to see how this pans out.  It is a good start.  I'd like to see a few more demonstrations of seriousness from her.  


by jcjcjc on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:35:35 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

"Yes, but Edwards realized that he got it wrong and apologized--sincerely"

Well...he "apologized" anyway...but only after running for VP in 2004 being "unapologetic" and finding that didn't work so well.

Using the Iraq yardstick per the thread lead message, we have three leading candidates for Democratic nomination.

Two got Iraq wrong, Edwards and Clinton.

One got it right, Obama.

I tally what I consider the big issues and Obama wins them all.

1. Iraq - was against and ran for office and won opposing Iraq war. Sponsored bill to begin immediate withdrawal of US troops.  Edwards and Clinton voted for the Iraq war.

2. Energy/oil - voted for 40mpg, Clinton and Edwards voted against it.

3. Universal health care - Obama sponsored universal health care bill in Illinois. Edwards did nothing. Hillary that well intentioned but god  awful mess in 1993.


by BrionLutz on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:47:31 AM EST

exLogCabin (none / 0)

Of course Hillary is in to help people and to end the war and to restore democracy. She wrote the Privacy Bill; the very first minimum wage increase bill (later revised by Ted Kennedy and passed by our new Congress).  She chose the "I'm In It To Win" as a slogan for her campaign to project confidence and counter the electability issue.  Remember, she's the only woman running.  She has to project confidence; and she is confident. That's the good news, when you consider Karl Rove will do all in his power to portray her as weak, based on her gender. Karl Rove is still alive and scheming!


by marycontrary on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 10:47:35 AM EST

Re: exLogCabin (none / 0)

It may be obvious to you, but it isn't obvious to me.  So far, Clinton has only said she wants a cap on the number of troops. That doesn't sound as forceful as even Republican Chuck Hagel. That is finding the one nuanced position that sounds good, but really means nothing. It's not showing any leadership whatsoever.  After so many years in the Senate, all I can remember is her taking a picture with Newt Gingrich and sponsoring something about flag burning and videogame violence.

Now, as to the point that she is a woman. That is interesting to me.  But as a gay person of color, I have learned that is not always the person from your community who helps you the most. Howard Dean is a straight white male who supported civil unions.  Clarence Thomas, Michelle Malkin,  Linda Chavez, Alberto Gonzalez, D'nesh Dsouza and a whole bunch of other people of color are no friends of mine.

What has Hillary done for women in this country?  And I am not just talking reproductive/health rights, but also income disparity, glass ceiling, family services, legal equality, etc. etc.


by exLogCabin on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exLogCabin (none / 0)

It's telling that Kate Michelman, president of NARAL for twenty years, signed on to help Edwards over Hillary. Said Michelman, "In making this decision to support John, I did take gender into consideration. And taking gender into consideration to me means, what would this candidacy do for women ... ? The answer to that for me is that John Edwards would make an extraordinary contribution to women's lives. And that, I think, is what's most important."


Join us at Show Me Progress!
by clarkent on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 08:50:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

she could send Chelsea to this war which has been so crucial in her political considerations and then, if she were killed or wounded or just simply traumatized, Senator Clinton, if she felt moved, could then turn against the war she still now supports because she understood why it's wrong to commit mass slaughter. maybe then i would vote for her, . . . . but probably not.


josh
by imperfectjosh on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 11:52:52 AM EST

Re: Accountability in 2008 (none / 0)

Nothing short of a total internal and external make over. But then we would be talking about another person.


The history of the left is a history of purists betraying the progressive movement so that they can feel good about their righteous selves.
by Populism2008 on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 12:28:29 PM EST

Hillary needs to unlearn 1994 and be bold (none / 0)

On the actual big issues of our time, too - not on crap like violent video games.

Obama's come out for universal health care, a timetable to get us out of Iraq, and combatting global warming.  He hasn't gotten really specific, but at least he's identified the three big issues of our time, and said where he stands on them in general terms.

Hillary hasn't gone anywhere near that far.  And until she does, she doesn't have game.  Edwards and Obama have at least anted up here in terms of taking positions.  (Edwards hasn't just anted - he's pushed a big pile of chips into the table.)  Hillary's done nothing.  She talks about bold leadership and standing up to the GOP, but she doesn't do any of it.

She's the sort of Dem that makes me think the party's mascot should be a rabbit, not a donkey.  Until she unlearns her inner rabbit, she's toast as far as I'm concerned.


by RT on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 02:13:54 PM EST

To get my support... (none / 0)

she'd have to go back on a lot of the things she's said and done recently. She'd have to break her ties with the pharmaceutical industry and the corn lobby, put out a serious plan for ethics and election reform, ending the Iraq war, overhauling health care, and attaining energy independence in the next 15 years.

The fact of the matter is, there really isn't anything Hillary Clinton could do to get my support except win the nomination. She's not just going in the wrong direction, the entire structure of her power base is offensive to me.

To win my support, she'd have to renounce most of what gives her power, and that just ain't gonna happen.


Progress is Personal | PCCC
by msnook on Mon Jan 22, 2007 at 02:20:23 PM EST


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