Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends

Like many other people, I was interested to see the latest national polls from Rasmussen, Zogby and Gallup, all showing Hillary Clinton under 30%. Off-hand, this certainly looks like a big drop for Clinton. Kos proclaimed "Hillary's sliding. Already." Here at MyDD, Jerome wrote:
the trends are interesting.... and the trends do not favor Hillary Clinton. Looking back, do you remember when Hillary Clinton was in the 40's nationally in 2005? Or when she was in the high 30's in 2006? Not anymore, as she continues to trend lower. Welcome to 2007 and Clinton in the 20's:
In order to develop a sense of just how severe Clitnon's slide actually has been, I compiled an excel file that included every single national primary poll taken since the November 7, 2004 elections. Most of these polls can be found in the Polling Report archives. Considering the large variance in how these polls were conducted, I labored to flatten out the difference between the polls as much as possible. This meant removing all polls that did not include Al Gore, because most polls had at least one question where Al Gore was included. It also meant removing all polls that only asked registered Democrats and / or only Democratic self-identifiers, since most polls sampled a universe that included both Democrats and non-Democrats likely to vote in a Democratic primary. This left me with 29 polls conducted over the past two years, which I grouped into pre-Obama and post-Obama polls, and which I also sorted by individual polling organization. You can see the results here:

National Primary Poll Compendium

The first thing I noticed during this exercise is that most of Hillary Clinton's supposed slide is actually an illusion. Most of the polls showing her over 40% in 2005 and early 2006 did not include Al Gore in the question and / or only polled Democrats. Since Gore typically gets around 12% in these polls, it stands to reason that Clinton would poll higher with Gore out of the question. Further, since Hillary Clinton also polls better among Democrats than she does among Democratic leaners, it stands to reason that she would do better when only Democrats were included in the sample. Overall, Clinton's poll mean is only down 5.8% since Obama entered the polling picture, and her polling median is only down 2.0%. Not only is that not a major drop-off, it might actually be less than many would expect given that Obama regularly polls in the high teens. In other words, Obama is either eating into Clinton's lead at the level one would expect, or less than one would expect.

A look at individual polling firms with trend lines shows an equally muddied picture. The long-term trends for Clinton across CNN, Cook, and Marist are flat, even when Obama enters the race. However, the long term trends for Fox and Gallup clearly show Clinton down post-Obama, while Rasmussen shows Clinton way down in their latest poll after showing her trending up from November to December. Once again, at least at this early stage, the point, the balance of evidence indicates that Clinton is down from her previous highs, but not down all that much.

Now, I am not going to say that this means Clinton has a more solid base of support than many assume, or that her slight downward trend won't accelerate in the coming weeks and months. Further, there is, at least, conflicting evidence showing her struggling in both Iowa and New Hampshire, which are most important than national polls. All I am saying is that the evidence shows reports of her terminal, downward spiral are greatly exaggerated. I know people like to point to Lieberman's slow, downward trend in 2003 as evidence that Clinton's lead is similarly illusory due to her high name ID, but in 2007 Clinton will be facing first-tier opponents who already have name ID around 70% or higher. This means that a Clinton slide is nowhere near as certain as Lieberman's was. Also, compared to Lieberman, Hillary Clinton is a much better campaigner, with a more natural base, and the ultimate superstar spouse in her corner. I expect the Clinton-Edwards-Obama competition will be quite competitive for a long time.



Display:


the gore effect (none / 0)

is more likely a name recognition preference rather than today's Gore supporters actually having Hillary as their second choice.

The next few months will show how much the polling is name recognition versus support for Hillary.

Of course if the MSM actually mentioned Edwards WITH Hillary and Obama we would more quickly see whether people are looking for someone else other than Hillary or not.


Call it "Medicare Option" not public option
by TarHeel on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 02:31:59 PM EST

Re: Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends (none / 0)

Ok, but the bottom line remains that Hillary is certainly behind in Iowa, and probably behind in New Hampshire. Two years ago, Hillary was thought to be a runaway front-runner for the nomination. Today, she can no longer be called such. That's a major downward shift in status.


by blueflorida on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 02:39:25 PM EST

Right, as time goes by the media focus on IA, NH (none / 0)

The national poll numbers will get less media coverage, and the early states' poll numbers will then no doubt affect the national numbers.


John Edwards 2008
by MeanBoneII on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 02:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Previous HRC Inevitability Thing Is Gone (none / 0)

I agree that the most newsworthy or relevant thing to take from the latest polling is that the race for the 2008 nomination is no longer HRC is a runaway front runner.  Instead, as of today, we have a different story. The polls are telling us that we have a three way race on our hands: it's between Edwards, Obama and HRC.  

So..until that changes...time to start writing all those stories about what a three way race means.  Put all three on the cover of your newsmagazine and pontificate away.


by Demo37 on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 03:32:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reality-Based Kill-Joy! (none / 0)

Virtually no change.  Where's the drama in that?


by Paul Rosenberg on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 02:52:36 PM EST

The Thermometer (3.00 / 1)

This "thermometer" poll from Q'pac tells me more than any other data on the subject.  

It asked people to rate lots of folks on a scale of 1-100.  For most Dems (Kerry, Gore, Pelosi, Reid, etc.), their curves are more bell-shaped -- more Dems (and folks generally) rate them between 60-80 than between 81-100.

The Clintons, however, have U-curves -- significantly more people rate them between 81-100 than 60-80.  

Bottom line: the haters hate Hillary, but those who like her are generally not lukewarm about it.


by Adam B on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 03:25:11 PM EST

Eventually Hillary Will Actually Have To Say Stuff (3.00 / 1)

And I just don't believe she's willing.

Edwards and Obama - Edwards especially - have taken some serious positions on major issues.

Hillary's problem is that she intended to win by playing triangulation and smallball.  Controls on violent video games, stuff like that.  Nibbling-around-the-edges proposals on major issues.

Ever since the political debacle of 1994, she and Bill have been playing political smallball.  That won't win you any races anymore.  She can only win if she unlearns her past and becomes a 'fighting Dem.'

Won't happen.  I don't see her being very competitive at all in the end.

The pity is, with the race already this well-formed, we won't find out anything for another year.  We really need to move Iowa, New Hampshire, and Nevada up to June, September, and November of this year.


by RT on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 03:29:50 PM EST

Re: Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends (none / 0)

I think Clinton's big slide will come after everyone who is running is set and people get to know the candidates.
The early debates will help people get to know them as well as the one on one as they visit the states.
The likablity factor for Hillary is terrible and when coupled with people like Richardson, Obama and Edwards, it will be very noticable.
Another factor will be when she is compared side by side like a debate, and you have these articulate and accomplished and relaxed speakers next to Hillary who sounds like she is reading from a textbook, it will be painfully obvious.
Her negatives are high not just with the right but, just as high on the left.
by vwcat on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 06:35:26 PM EST

Right and Wrong (none / 0)

You are right that Clinton's numbers have gone down but that was obvious as more candidates emerged.
However, it is just plain dumb to assume that she is in a "downward spiral" or her campaign is over. A lot of people including mainstream Democrats support her as well as a number of activists. Not every primary voter read the blogs and is a member of the netroots. The netroots is still part of the outside because like most other groups its part of the grassroots structure.  

My choices:Clinton or Obama or Clinton/Obama ticket


by bsavage on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 06:51:35 PM EST

Re: Right and Wrong (none / 0)

Clinton/Obama seems the most likely scenario to me. Personally I would be delighted with president Gore, president Edwards or president Clinton. Still unsure about Obama.


by kundalini on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 12:34:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The war is unpopular (none / 0)

 I think the Iraq war is ultimately what's going to sink Hillary. She supported it at the beginning, but unlike, say, John Edwards, she refuses to disavow her support despite the public (and especially the Democratic public) having thoroughly soured on the war. With Edwards staking out a clear, sensible, and POPULAR position on Iraq, Hillary's waffling is just going to look more and more obvious to the Dem primary voter.  You gotta stand for sumthin'...

 Edwards seems to be aware that there is life outside the beltway bubble. Hillary's more concerned with pleasing David Broder than with representing real Americans.

 An Edwards-Obama ticket would be the effective end of Hillary's candidacy. Wonder if it's occurred to either...


by Master Jack on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 07:00:57 PM EST

Re: Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends (none / 0)

 I wonder how much of Hillary's support among Democrats is low-information voters going on name recognition and a vague perception that she's a progressive (which she ISN'T).

 Low-information voters are a problem. They're the reason Joe Lieberman is still in the Senate. Heck, they're the reason Republicans win just about ANY race. Low-information voters are the reason Americans get stuck with hold-our-nose candidates in just about every national election.

 Hillary's support among politically informed and involved Democrats -- which is what the netroots are -- is extremely low. There are pro-Hillary pockets, of course, some of which are firing responses to this post right now, but let's face facts -- Hillary does MUCH better with low-info voters than she does with high-info voters.

 How do we overcome this?


by Master Jack on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 07:11:43 PM EST

Re: Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends (none / 0)

Not only is HRC not a progressive, neither are Obama or Edwards and the voting records in the senate are there for all to see. In terms of the political spectrum these three occupy practically the same ground.

Now HRC is clearly the insider candidate, while Edwards is a rather bizarre former vice-presidential nominee outsider candidate and Obama is both insider and outsider at the same time.


by kundalini on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 12:28:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends (none / 0)

  Not to nitpick over any litmus tests over what makes a "progressive" and what doesn't, but the biggest problem with Hillary is that on the one, single defining issue of the decade, the Iraq war, she's trying to have it both ways, being for it and against it at the same time.

 There's no way any moral, principled person could possibly support the Iraq war at this point, especially given what's become public knowledge since it started. Edwards understands that. But Hillary can't decide where she stands on what should be a crystal-clear issue for anybody who even remotely regards himself or herself as a non-right-winger. That's utter, complete abdication of moral responsibility on her part, and it does not speak well of her leadership skills.

 Hillary Clinton is, essentially, a pro-choice Republican. Do we want the 2008 election to be nothing more than a national referendum on abortion rights?


by Master Jack on Sat Jan 20, 2007 at 08:09:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton And National Primary Poll Trends (none / 0)

I certainly agree that there is a surprising lack of support for HRC in the blogosphere and the latest polling is trending away from here previous high results, but let us all take a breath here for a moment.

1. She hasn't actually declared her candidacy, that must have an impact when others have already done so.

2. The other declared candidates are likely to siphon off a bit of her support.

3. She has a leadership role in the mainstream party which probably inhibits her freedom of action especially in these early days.

Having said that, however, there seems to be a problem with the Iraq vote and the perception of her as a 'triangulator' which needs to be addressed to re-establish her ability to lead opinion.  And there was a surprisingly vexed response by her staff to Edwards generalised dog-whistle criticism of 'silence' on the Iraq issue.

I wonder what Bill is thinking about all of this...


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jan 19, 2007 at 08:12:21 PM EST


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