We Need More Partisan Self-Identification

Here is a funny quote from a Republican pollster:
"Democrats are trying to indict an entire class of people, who happen to be called Republican candidates for Congress," said Glen Bolger, a Republican pollster handling dozens of House races. "We have to bring individual indictments with different cases and different pieces of evidence."
I have written in the past that Republicans have ceded 2-3% of the national House vote to Democrats simply by running candidates in so few seats. Now, as a new Rasmussen poll shows, Republicans have ceded another 2-3% to Democrats this cycle through declining Republican self-identification:
Partisan Self-Identification, July 2006 (October 2004 numbers in parenthesis)
Democrat: 36.8% (38.7%)
Republican: 32.8% (37.2%)
Eric Schmeltzer has more on this poll over at the Huffington Post. While Democratic self-identification has dropped since the 2004 election, Republican self-identification has dropped more--2.5% more, to be precise. Perhaps this is why even Tom Reynolds, chair of the NRCC, won't identify himself as a Republican in his commercials. Republicans are, generally speaking, running away from themselves.

Of course, Democrats are predictably failing to seize on this opportunity by not identifying themselves as Democrats. Someone needs to explain to me how Democrats plan to nationalize this election against Republicans without identifying themselves as Democrats. I might also need a refresher course on how people are going to develop a better image of the Democratic Party if our own candidates refuse to identify themselves as Democrats. As a third request, I would like someone to explain to me how Democratic congressional challengers plan to win without people being willing to press the "Democratic" button on November 7th. Virtually no challengers are going to manage higher name ID than incumbents this cycle, so in order to win back Congress we are going to have to rely on large numbers of people being willing to vote for the Democratic Party itself, rather than individual Democratic candidates. Not only is that never going to happen if our own candidates refuse to self-identify as Democrats, we can also see from Republican quotes that avoiding partisan self-identification altogether is exactly what Republicans want in this cycle. We can't win back congress unless we are willing to be partisans.



Display:


Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

Wouldn't part of being partisan be supporting Democrats and bashing Republicans?


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 02:29:44 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

Luke, we're talking about the meta-message we need to create a democratic tidal wave, it can't occur if individual democratic candidates are running from their party affiliation.  


Go back to Hussein Texas
by gobacktotexas on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 02:39:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

I'm not suggesting that there's no place for this.  But if you're inclined, go back through the past month of posts from Bowers and Stoller and see how many of them criticize Democrats and how many of them criticize Republicans.  Obviously, this stuff needs to be discussed.  But not at the expense of forgetting about Republicans.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 02:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

You have officially tipped over into silliness. There are multiple diaries about what the Republicans are doing wrong, how they are running etc, and what we can expect-including from the Bowers and on multiple other blogs. THe only thing these diaries are adding is what we can do to increase our chances. In other words- it is additive rather than reductive as you are claiming.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 02:49:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tammy Duckworth (none / 0)

If you check out her website, she has a little introductory video in the corner of the screen.  She says "Like many members of the sixth district, I'm concerned about what's happening, and what's not happening in Washington.  Whether the leaders of either party are meeting their responsibilites and truly putting our country first."  

Apparently Tammy Duckworth thinks the ticket to tapping in to people's hunger for change is to indict her own party and suggest it is part of the problem?  How does this help?


Go back to Hussein Texas
by gobacktotexas on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 02:38:20 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

saying you're a democrats, in today's climate, might not neccesiraly be an advantage in the heavy republican district and state.I think you have to define yourself as an independent because the country is really upset at both party althought the angers is stronger on the republican side because theyve held congress for a long time and hasnt done a thing.

Therefore, saying you're a liberal democrats may not be too appealing for people because they may see you as no difference then the conservatives that are pushing their hard right ideology.They see liberal as people that could go in and push their hard left ideology.


by Maria19Rodriguez on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 02:51:54 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

can you link to your polling to backup your claim?


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 03:01:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New direction (none / 0)

CNN released a new poll today that touches on this.

"...48 percent said that, if most of the present members of Congress were replaced with new members, there would be no difference. By contrast, 42 percent said such a scenario would change Congress for the better, and 7 percent said it would change Congress for the worse."

Our party was almost as responsible for getting us into this war as the republicans, hence the tough choice between staying the course and saying you were wrong.

In 30 seconds, that many people will see at high speed in 10 seconds, how much time do you spend identifying yourself with a party vs. stressing your individuality?


by PBCliberal on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:46:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New direction (none / 0)

you misunderstand the poll, and what it means. The polling here, and other places , indicates why people think that there is no difference, and its no identifying oneself as Dem as to the reason why. It's that they a) they are ineffectual b) just as corrupt c) weak d) lacking in ideas etc.

Let's step from politics- which I know for some of you its hard to do. Bowers and Stoller aren't really talking politics. Although I imagine you and others thinkt hey are. They are talking character issues. They are talking about human pscyhology, and frankly they are talking about common sense.

How so? Human nature wise- the Demos fail to understand on a pretty consistent basis what motivates peo in terms of character. I see peo here whether its Jacinto or Stoller on some occasions do it all the time. I have a lot of apolitical friends. Just to give you an idea just how apolitical- I had a friend who is moderate liberal, but not especially liberal-when I graduated law school he said to me oh I are you trying to be like Clarence Thomas. He didn't really know who clarence thomas was other than he was a lawyer, black and he had heard the name.

I mention this because when I talk to these friends- the stuff that stoller and bowers are saying here is the stuff that anecdotally I ama hearing from conservatives, moderates and liberals a like. Most of it is character stuff- why didn't Kerry just call him a liar? Why did they do that? When i asked them do they think things are going to change- they say no. Want to know why? Because of things like what you and others keep defending as the correct way to do things. They things like no because they keep rolling over. During Alito- one of my republican friends said to me- "I could at least respect your party if they would stand up for themselves, but with what they are doing I cant respect that."

Everything these peo are saying to me conforms with what I know human nature to be. Peo don't respect weakness in leadership. Questioning- sure. A certain about of smarts- its okay, but not necessary. But weakness- that's never going to happen.

Some of you in your CW about politics seem to want to divorce it from human nature and how it works.

Do you really think people don't know that the person running is a Democrat? do you really think that is the realy concern of bowers and others? I see what they are talkin gabout as a proxy for something more fundamental. if you are scared of who are- why wouldn't others be? Would you want a boss who will not be upfront with you? Would you want want who you think is full of shit? If you run your own business would you want to do deal with an employee that acts what you think make sense in politics for the Democrats to act like? Would you want a friend (remember the drink beer with bush mantra from 2000)? Where do you think this stuff comes from? It's human nature. Either you get that or you dont.

Most of these same friends tell me I am wasting time chatting with folks like you by the way. They say that because almost everyone of them conservative or liberal if you scratch below their idealogy are pretty pragmatic. Only a small portion fo the voting population is politically extreme by the way. Most are like my apolitical, but voting friends.

So- to the party- I say they can go your way, or they can go a new direction. Really, all bowers and stoller have done is confirm what my gut from talking to real peo was already telling me. None of this bs double speak where you think you are going to convince peo you aren't  Dem. They know. All you are convincing them of by running like this is that you are weak. If you want to win, you have got to take risks- this is true in business. And, after watching the Republicans- I am certain its true in politics.

If you want data about what these numbers mean- look at the polling done here. Go to pollster.com. Go to Donkey rising etc. They all are saying pretty much in different ways what is being said here. Indeed, even the nationals get this even if they dont know how to follow through.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:32:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New direction (none / 0)

Do you really think people don't know that the person running is a Democrat?

In 2002, 72% of the electorate believed that Democrats controlled the House, when in actuality, Republicans controlled it. It's no stretch by any means to believe that many people don't know the party affiliation of the candidates on TV.


The truth about McCain
by nstrauss on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 11:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: New direction (none / 0)

who do you think low information voters favor?


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 11:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In 30 seconds or less (none / 0)

The attention span of most voters is so short, and the window of opportunity to reach them in traditional political advertising is so small, that you have time to make one statement, maybe two.

Is a candidate's affiliation with the Democratic Party more important than saying a candidate favors quickly bringing the troops home from an immoral war? Is it more important than fostering affordable energy? More important than taking drastic action to forestall an imminent economic downturn?

Maybe Bowers and Stoller aren't talking politics. I know I'm not. I'm talking political advertising and making it effective, and considering that Bowers and Stoller spend a good deal of time around here distinguishing good Democrats (netroots) from bad Democrats (DLC, etc), its not even as simple as putting "Democrat" up in big screen-filling letters.

If we had a unified position for which "democrat" could be a true rallying cry, big screen-filling letters might be a good ploy. But remember, we're debating whether our vice-presidential standard bearer from 2000 should be stripped of his power as an elected Senate democrat because he's now running as an independent with a plan to win by courting republican defectors. Is Lieberman a Democrat? He hasn't been a Democrat to me for years, but technically, and in the minds of most voters, he is.

"Democrat" is not our strongest suit, and we don't have time, in the waning days of this campaign, to use our precious time to try and make it so, when we have so many issues that actually resonate with voters.


by PBCliberal on Tue Sep 05, 2006 at 01:07:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: In 30 seconds or less (none / 0)

do y ou think the ads have been effective- regardless of the Democ pt- do  you think not talking tough when voters want to see that in us is a good thing. some of you fixate on one point or another and my fixation is on the result or the impact on the audience. I dont pretend to know whether stoller/bowers are right about the particular frame- demo- but I do know that this is about perceptions and watered down isn't going to do it. even if they dont mention demo- they should forcefully make a pt rather than thinking voters want to hear feel good- as my friend a conservative dem said to me when she went to hear a liberal dem running speak- her issue with him wasn't that he was more liberal than her- she wanted him to cut the bullshit.


by bruh21 on Tue Sep 05, 2006 at 12:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (3.00 / 1)

They see liberal as people that could go in and push their hard left ideology.

What is "hard left ideology"?

a) Increasing the minimum wage?
b) Health insurance for everyone?
c) Fiscal responsibility?
d) Honest government?
e) Accountability for failure?
f) Timeline for bringing US troops home from Iraq?
g) Stem cell rersearch?
h) All of the above?

Most people agree with liberal (or hard left if you prefer) ideology.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 03:24:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

Of course historically, Midterms seem to always have more independents that party voters, while usually many more will register to parties on presidential election years. Perhaps the money figure would be the 2002 registration.


by KainIIIC on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 03:09:54 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

saying you're a democrats, in today's climate, might not neccesiraly be an advantage in the heavy republican district and state.

Why would anyone believe in, support, or vote for a political party or its candidates when it and they are ashamed of associating themselves with its name, values, and platform?

This should be a blowout year for Democrats that would make the Republicans of 1994 look like pikers by comparison. Instead, we're talking about the possibility of Democrats winning the House and maybe picking up a few Senate seats. That's the DLC's doing.

It just goes to underscore the desperate need for reform of the Democratic Party into one that can be proud enough of itself to brag about it to voters instead of running away from itself.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 03:13:11 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

I am willing to attempt to answer your three requests but I have to say your questions are open-ended and I'm not sure if I agree with the presumptions behind them.

As to how Democrats plan to nationalize this election against Republicans without identifying themselves as Democrats:

First of all, Democrats want to nationalize this election because it is to their advantage. Republicans want to keep it local because it is to their advantage. This isn't a party characteristic, this is a dynamic only reflective of the current times.

Unfortunately, midterm elections are a local issue no matter how you slice it. It's an unfortunate catch-22.

The majority of voters aren't going to vote for a Democrat just because of bush and his incompetence, especially if the Democratic candidate is weaker (in the voter's mind) than the Republican candidate.

But on the positive side, I do believe that the Democrats have strong candidates for this coming November. Those candidates, whatever strategy they decide to take, are the only difference makers. And on top of that, midterms are historically voter apathetic, this year the midterms are far more scrutinized as in the past.

Regardless, candidates publicly identifying themselves as Democrats isn't the most relevant issue when it comes to winning voters on a local level.

As to a refresher course on how people are going to develop a better image of the Democratic Party if our own candidates refuse to identify themselves as Democrats:

The Democrats aren't just fighting for a Congressional majority, the Democrats are fighting for a chance to prove they are the Party of the future. "A chance" being the key phrase.

In order for the Democrats to develop a better party image is if they not only take control of the House and preferably the Senate too but they must also prove that the Democrats know how to handle National Security issues over the course of the next two years.

In otherwords, the Democrats are highly dependent on winning in November in order for them to be able to better the party image.

I'm not sure of whom you are referring to when you say that Democratic candidates that don't identify themselves as Democrats, but I still believe that that is not relevant to local voters. What's relevant is whether the candidate has convincingly campaigned as the best candidate for the job to the local voter.

If the Democrats don't pick up seats in Novembers' midterms (heaven forbid) they will not have the chance to prove if they are strong on National Security and better the party image, regardless of how incompetent the republicans truly are.

And lastly, as to how Democratic congressional challengers plan to win without people being willing to press the "Democratic" button on November 7th:

Democratic congressional challengers are more dependent on their record and their campaign, expecially within this next 2 months, more than they will be dependent on their party affiliation.

One last thing, I do hope the Democratic Party wins big in November. But whatever happens the Republicans will still come up with a way to spin it as to suggest that they are the victors.


by benji on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 03:19:04 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

I will keep this short

a) 1994 and 1974 disproves your theory about what mid terms are about. The only thing I would change about bowers post is to start to require from some of you something more than your opinion. Back up what you just wrote with actual data- thanks.

b)your second argument is an egg before the chicken argument that miscrues whats the egg and whats the chicken- people have to trust you before they will let you govern- not after. some of you seem to think you are going to 'hoodwink' the voters into giving the Dems a shot. Good luck on that- it's been tried before- his name was Kerry. It's been tried before his name was Gore. It's been tried in mulitple places at multiple times. it's failed. Show me in the last decade and half where it has worked ona consitent basis. again- show me the money. not just your CW. This is what I would have again added to Bowers post- require you that are claiming he is wrong to provide actual data to prove it. You fundamentally miscrue what happens first, and what happens second. You assume that the winning of elections is luck, and then you get to govern and prove yourself, when in fact, as the republicans have shown, you win elections first by giving it your all including the kitchen sink and then govern.

Sadly, you are what is a fundamental flaw in the party's thinking- this attitude of - we are the governing party. We aren't. We lost. we lost for reasons that aren't about issues as much as what the issues say about us. How we conduct  ourselves translates into character issues. People show on any given day weakness and strength in many small but perceptible ways. Each time your show weakness it builds a picture that loses an election for you.

c)your third point again treats voters 1) like they are stupid and b) like they don't make decisions on something other than voting records. so long as you think its reducible to voting records, I doubt there is any number or poll or evidence that will convince you.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 04:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rebut Mitch McConnell in the next seven days (none / 0)

`It's demonstrable that we haven't been attacked here again in the last five years,'' said Kentucky Senator Mitch McConnell, the Senate's No. 2 Republican.

``I hope the American people don't believe that's an accident, some quirk of fate,'' said McConnell, who also appeared on CBS. ``It's been because we've been on offense going after the terrorists where they are.''

This isn't quite true, is it? We were attacked again   within the last five years of the Bush Administration. The first time the Twin Towers were attacked was under Clinton, when the attack was stopped and the terrorists jailed.

The second, which McConnell may have forgotten, was planned during Bush's vacation and carried out less than five years ago. Three thousand people died, Mitch. I'm surprised you don't remember. The  fifth anniversary is next week.


by stevehigh on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 04:56:01 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

Good point. The Dems need to develop their party as a brand name for competence, seriousness of purpose and as a vehicle for meeting tomorrow's challenges.


by Bush Bites on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 05:20:41 PM EST

Democrats are party of change (none / 0)

See the new poll at the front page of cnn.com


Nearly half of the respondents -- 49 percent -- said they considered the GOP the party of strong leadership. But 56 percent said they considered the Democrats the party of change, with 49 percent considering them the more forward-looking party.

and note


More than 60 percent of those surveyed said government policies need either major changes or a complete overhaul, while 30 percent said minor changes were needed. Only 7 percent said no change is necessary.

People want change, are anti-incumbent, and view the Democrats as the party of change.  Identification as Democrats seems like a strength here.

Source:   Voters are anti-incumbent and angry, new poll finds


John McCain is a Bush ally on Social Security.
by John DE on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 06:17:43 PM EST

and I'll add that (none / 0)

being willing to say that you're a Democrat would probably help the perception of strength.  


John McCain is a Bush ally on Social Security.
by John DE on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 06:19:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and I'll add that (none / 0)

I am begining to realize that its useless to argue actual polling data, anecdotal evidence and larger trends with CW because the CW is believe, and like any faith- its closed to actual data imput.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 06:56:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And more evidence from the CNN poll (none / 0)

That the economy is the number one issue. Also that people have an increasingly negative view of the economy, as opposed to earlier in the summer or any time this year. That's been popping up in every recent survey. I hope some of our forthcoming commercials seize upon it.


by jagakid on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 07:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

I ythink the democratic party needs to define what kind of change they will make..Saying the republicans are bad, wont do it because the american people wants you to tell them what are you going to do differently.

For example, the democratic party says they want a change of direction in iraq,when cant define what will really change.

As a liberal, i do not agree with just pulling all troops out and letting sunnies and shiite kill themselves off...To me, this will only make the world community hate us even more because the US will be known as the country that came into iraq, destabilized it, then lift it worse then it was under saddam hussein.


by Maria19Rodriguez on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 06:43:51 PM EST

It's a little bit late in the game (3.00 / 2)

We chose our path early, attack mode. Meanwhile, the political climate was already anti-Bush and anti-GOP. Newflash: that's why we had the generic poll lead and increasing party ID advantage to begin with. It was perfect opportunity to allow that displeasure to simmer while we worked on boosting our favorable numbers. Instead, we piled on, to almost no benefit. Certainly no long term benefit.

If we had positively defined the Democratic belief system and party image, Democrats would identify as Democrats. Which also would have significantly diminished viability for things like the "Defeatocrat" crap.

I'll repeat the famous line I saw atop a diary here, from one of the major players: "We do stand for something. We stand against Bush."

How can anyone here assert it's unfair if the public has that view, that we have no coherent party vision other than attacking Bush, when a righthand man emphasized if not bragged about it himself?

Again, it's like shopping for a car, or any major purchase. You only stop the process in midstream and say "wow, that's it!" if a choice strikes you as outstanding. If it's merely a horrible option you unenthusiastically move to the next dealer. You might not buy anything at all. That's where we are as a party, hoping the voters reject the GOP candidate and reluctantly identify the Democrat instead of staying home. We should have spent the past year providing at least some eagerness to side with our party, with a comfort level that the hostility toward Bush would still be there.

Remember when Doug Forrester ran against Bob Torricelli in New Jersey senate 2002, then when we creatively replaced Torricelli with Lautenberg all of a sudden the basis for Forrester's campaign -- "I'm not Bob Torricelli" was all but shot? That's essentially the path we identified: "Bush and Iraq are a disaster." No doubt it will work to some degree, especially in a second term midterm, but you can't wonder why we're not shouting, "We're Democrats," when all year the theme is, "The other side sucks."

Again, I view the white female vote as the entire key to our fortunes. Chuck Todd pointed that out in 2004 and when I researched it that summer, he was actually understating it. Kerry lost that block 55-44 while Gore had only a 1 point deficit, 49-48. It was the reason for Bush managing a 3 million vote victory and not half million vote defeat.

It's great news those white females have returned to our camp. That's why we have the party ID edge now, security moms drifting back to their previous tendency. But if you look at the interviews with them and other anecdotal evidence, the switch is almost entirely due to dissatisfaction with the GOP. We haven't spoken to the issues that normally decide their vote and there is no guarantee they remain with us beyond 2006. It also follows that they possibly won't vote in significant percentage, or for us,  in 2006 unless we highlight homeland concerns like health care, economy and jobs, and education, in the final two months of this campaign.


by jagakid on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 07:29:38 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (3.00 / 1)

DNC should run Ads--about voting straight Democratic ticket.  The Ad should extoll the Dems as the party that gave us Social Security, Medicare, Surpluses, clean environment, public education, strong Middle class which is now under attack by Republicans.

The Ad then should show Democratic Party is about People not special interest(corporations).

And voting straight Dem ticket for a Dem majority for accountability, check Social Security privatization and other extreme right wing agenda, corruption, no bid contracts profiteering from war and Katrina, etc.

This would force candidates to identify themselves as Democrats.


by jasmine on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 09:29:21 PM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

great idea - and include that the GOP now controls Congress


by mightymouse on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 11:38:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Missing the point (none / 0)

I think you are missing the important news in these polls.  The Rasmussen and CNN polls point to the same thing: dissatisfaction with politicians of both major parties.  If this trend continues, both the Republicans and Democrats will have fewer identifying with them (and soon, registering as such), than the 'other category.

Yes, they are runnign away from the Rethugs quicker, but that's natural, b/c they have command of all three breahcnes of government.  However, Dems are losing ground, not gaining it.  Rethugs are not becoming Dems, they are becoming independents or unaffiliated.

In a year where there are third party or independent options for statewide elections in at least 47 out of 50 states (pending PA and NM, it could be 49), I think you'll see a bump nationwide in third parties totals, although doubtfull this will have any great affect except on a local level, outside perhaps of the TX Governors race.

The CNN poll highlights what other polls have been saying for months, that people are pissed off at politics as usual, and that the Dems are failing to break out of that mold.  Nationally, people don't have any great hope for the Dems, even if they're turned off enough by the Rethugd to turn away from them in high enough numbers for the Dems to squeak out an unworkable majority in the House.

IS this a blip, or a continuation of a longer trend that sees more people not identifying with the two parties?  I think it's the beginning of the decline of the two party system.  All it's going to take is a strong, self-funded independent candidate to run for press in 2008 or 2012 to make this decline a reality.


Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!
by brooklyngreenie on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:27:47 PM EST

Re: Missing the point (none / 0)

the dissatifaction with the democrats is for a different reason than it is with the republicans. many of you seem to assume its the same- its precisely the chickenshit approach that makes peo not trust democrats. with the republicans its because of how they govern. two very different things.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

umm (none / 0)

do mean a Chickenshit apporach to winning elections is turning people off, or is it the chickenshit approach of the Dem congress who abdicated their responsibility to oppose Bush and his cronies in Iraq?  It's all the same thing to me, and to many other people as well.  People are tired of politics as usual, which means that people are tired of the corporate lobbyists running boith sides of the aisle on Capitol Hill...


Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!
by brooklyngreenie on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:52:14 PM EST

Re: umm (none / 0)

oops - this was meant to resppond to bruh21 above...


Vote for a true progressive in November: Cynthia McKinney (GRN) for President!
by brooklyngreenie on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 10:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: umm (none / 0)

what in what bowers and stoller have suggestion- would indicate to you that they are disagreeing with you? Maybe I misunderstood your point- can you explain what you mean by your prior post in a nother way to me? thanks


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 11:41:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

The democrats, which im a member of, really dont have a plan for iraq, and are hoping that the american public gets so pissed at the way the war is being conducted, that they just throw all republicans out of congress.But if you ask reid, shumer, etc etc, what's the plan, they wont be able to tell you...Troops withdrawal, is not a plan and would never be a plan in my opinion...Leaving iraq when they clearly arent ready to take controll, will destroy this country and we will see a new saddam take over, probably this al-sadr guy and the world will accuse the U.S of creating a guiy worse then saddam.

If the dems think that pulling out is the answer, then they are crazy...Personally, i advocate the biden's plan, which create 3 small states within iraq but make sure that a central goverment keeps the 3 states as a larger iraq..The central goverment will be in charge of oil water supplies etc etc and this goverment will make sure that everything gets plit in 3 parts..We will help them draw the line and buil their infrastructure etc etc..i believe sunnies and shiite cant live together and they have to be separated..the kurds regions are very good right now...

I believe that the democrats should advocate this plais instead of their stupid, lets leave now, plan...Thats very selfish for them to leave and let millions of iraqis that will be murdered as soon as those killers sees no troops to survey the region.


by Maria19Rodriguez on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 11:46:25 PM EST

Here's a theory (none / 0)

Perhaps Republican candidates are hesitant to identify themselves as Republicans for two reasons.  The first is the obvious: the negative perception of Republicans indicated by the disapproval numbers for Bush & Cheney and the Democratic advantage in generic ballots rather disinclines them to ID as one of those despised Republicans.

But the other is a little subtler, if true.  With the national leadership, spearheaded by Cheney, Rumsfeld and Mehlman demonizing Democrats as the ultimate partisans (tantamount to traitors), the Republicans, by not identifying themselves one way or the other, show themselves NOT to be partisans.  If Democrats are partisans, and partisans are bad, and everyone recognized that "Republicans" are the partisans that oppose the Democrats, by not wrapping themselves in the Republican ID, they say, in effect, "You can trust me, I am not partisan."

If true (and I admit, it could well be ascribing too much subtlty to political campaign strategy), then it also helps explains why Democrats may eb shying away from being upfront about their party affiliation.  They may figure that with Cheney & company blackening the reputation of Democrats as ultra-partisan near-traitors, sticking that ID on themselves may do more harm than good.  They may think that flying under the  public's radar for partisanship will get them through the election better than attacking it head on, because it's so difficult to undo spin once it's out there (cf. Gore and the Internet and other anti-Gore slurs).

There are clearly some problems with this way of thinking. If you can't undo the spin, you can neutralize it, but that requires a loud hard-hitting no-holds barred counter-attack, the kind we didn't see when Kerry was swift-boated.

In addition, you can hide, but you can't hide completely, because the Republicans will be happy to loudly and publicly brand you a Democrat even if you shy away from trumpeting it yourself.

The real problem is, as you say, that you can't nationalize the election without setting up a clear bad-guy (the incompetent, corrupt, unloved Republicans, both local and, especially, national) and an clear good-guy alternative, your local Democratic.  One of the advantages to this is that the nationalization can be one-sided: your beloved local Democrat is, in effect, competing against those disliked National Republicans away in alien Washington D.C.

So there may be a happy medium, when local Dems don't identify themselves so much with the national party (and risk being sullied by Cheney & Company's lies) as with other local Democrats, preferably the most trusted of them in the area.


unfutz
by Ed Fitzgerald on Tue Sep 05, 2006 at 12:06:22 AM EST

Re: We Need More Partisan Self-Identification (none / 0)

There's a distinct difference between "bashing" a candidate (you Ms. Candidate, are an idiot) and making a suggestion as to what would be a good political strategy to adopt.  Part of that is about tone, but a lot is about the intent, and I see no other purpose here except to urge Democrats to adopt a particular strategy.


unfutz
by Ed Fitzgerald on Tue Sep 05, 2006 at 12:11:53 AM EST


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