George Allen Losing His Senate Seat

This is deadly for Allen.

Three former college football teammates of Sen. George Allen say that the Virginia Republican repeatedly used an inflammatory racial epithet and demonstrated racist attitudes toward blacks during the early 1970s.

"Allen said he came to Virginia because he wanted to play football in a place where 'blacks knew their place,'" said Dr. Ken Shelton, a white radiologist in North Carolina who played tight end for the University of Virginia football team when Allen was quarterback. "He used the N-word on a regular basis back then."

A second white teammate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he feared retribution from the Allen campaign, separately claimed that Allen used the word "nigger" to describe blacks. "It was so common with George when he was among his white friends. This is the terminology he used," the teammate said.

A third white teammate contacted separately, who also spoke on condition of anonymity out of fear of being attacked by the Virginia senator, said he too remembers Allen using the word "nigger," though he said he could not recall a specific conversation in which Allen used the term. "My impression of him was that he was a racist," the third teammate said.

Shelton also told Salon that the future senator gave him the nickname "Wizard," because he shared a last name with Robert Shelton, who served in the 1960s as the imperial wizard of the United Klans of America, a group affiliated with the Ku Klux Klan.

It's not just that he's a straight up racist.  It's that he's been so evasive about it, at one moment apologizing and at another moment going on the offensive.  He looks just weak.

This is a huge opening.  You can help by giving to Jim Webb and getting him the resources to get elected.



Display:


Great news (1.00 / 1)

But what the heck is up with the New Jersey race? Stoller! Bowers! Help us out. Please tell us we're not going to lose this one!


by adamterando on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:10:10 PM EST

Re: Great news (none / 0)

We sent one of our front page writers to work on that one full-time. MAtt helped set up the NEwJersey blogosphere. What else can we do?

And I really dislike off-topic comments.
by Chris Bowers on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:11:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great news (none / 0)

find a better candidate who actually wants to campaing and win? I mean seriously whats going on NJ is because their guy is acting like he has this in the bag. I live in NYC- I haven't seen 1 ad- not one for film. Doesn't he have  a warchest? I have seem multiple spitzer ads. There is no excuse


by bruh21 on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:50:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great news (none / 0)

I'm familiar with NJ. If Menendez is no more than 4% behind he wins in a wisker. The NJ Democrats have a monstrous turnout machine in the urban areas (mostly in around NYC, Hudson and Essex). That's why pre-election polls in NJ always show a tighter than expected race. Menendez is also getting on the air, but his ads look a little wimpy.  Somehow the NJ Dems always have a gambit up their sleeve.  


by NJDEM1 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 02:24:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great news (none / 0)

Sorry for the off-topic comment. I just didn't expect Kean's bump to be this long-lasting, especially since he's such an inept candidate. And since just about everything written about NJ-Sen has been "it's close, but everything is fine once people realize it's Kean Jr and dems always do better than polls show in NJ", I was hoping for some reassurance that it's still fine.


by adamterando on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 09:33:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

I believe there will be more breaking on this by major media outlets.  Stay tuned.  George Allen can run, but he can't hide from the reality of his past & present.  


by howardpark on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:14:18 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Being a racist doesn't just lose votes, it gains votes.  How do you think this will work out?


by James Earl on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:17:11 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (3.00 / 2)

"Being a racist doesn't just lose votes, it gains votes."

If that were true, then why isn't Allen or other Republican incumbnets spewing racial epiteths every chacne they get, in public, and on television?

My point: being subtely racist may help with some sections of the electorate. Being overtly racist doesn't help with anyone.
by Chris Bowers on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:27:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (3.00 / 1)

As usual, Chris Bowers is right.  Overt racism is just out of style.  And let's not forget that Virginia is the only state to elect an African-American Governor.  

I don't think Salon is the only media outlet working on this story.  

Three old teammates corroborating this story in varying degrees, that is solid!


by howardpark on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:38:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

MSM? (none / 0)

Chris can you tell us if this is getting pushed around the MSM?

They picked up the Macaca thing only days after we pushed it, is it going to be the same deal here or will cable pick it up tommorow night and network news the day after?

Or will it be ignored all together because its "30 years ago from mostly anonymous sources" and they find out the one guy who admits his name is a registered democrat (itll be something like that)


by thorgrim on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:25:59 PM EST

Re: MSM? (none / 0)

It just broke tonight. We will ahve to see. IT is also up to us to help push it, ala Macaca.
by Chris Bowers on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:28:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They already checked the guy's records (none / 0)

He's switched between dem and independent, and has donated to one republican and one democrat, both of whom he knew personally.


by delmoi on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They already checked the guy's records (none / 0)

I saw this posted on DKos, they should go to the hunting grounds, and find the owners of the black-owned houses in the area from the 70s and question them all about a dear...if one is found in 1971-73...boom get them on Keith Olberman and you got a ridiculously huge story

but...i dunno...so long ago...distant memories, to us ofcourse its outrageous but the media is loathe to go onto such shocking ground without firm proof, they'd have the vet the guy 10x over and get some of those team mates to be vetted too

After the CBS guard memo, they are all scared of running something...I seriously think they might pass it


by thorgrim on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They already checked the guy's records (none / 0)

I think one would remember a deer's head in one's mailbox.  I bet that story got told a few dozen times at different kinds of gatherings.


by jsw on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:49:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They already checked the guy's records (none / 0)

That was my thought too.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 05:34:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

LOLerskates (3.00 / 1)

George Allen's implosion is pretty entertaining.


by delmoi on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:32:07 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Great news and I am going to give a little something to Jim Webb.  Why didn't any of this stuff come out when he was running for Gov or Senate the first time?  It would have been nice to have never had him in any of these positions but hopefully we'll get rid of him this year.


by John Mills on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:36:51 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Clarification - him is Allen, not Webb.


by John Mills on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (3.00 / 1)

Interesting question about why it this & other things about Allen did not come out before.  The only answer I can give is that the Webb campaign -- while not perfect -- it much more agressive than Mary Sue Terry who Allen beat for Governor or Chuck Robb who was sort of out of gas in 2000.  Plus, the media are like sharks (at least the popular image of sharks) -- when there is blood in the water, they circle.  Allen has been bleeding for several weeks.


by howardpark on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

The media environment is very different now.  It's still deeply slanted toward corporate and republican interests, but there are a lot more people paying attention to Republicans (and not in the traditionally sycophantic way) than there were.


by jsw on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:51:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

It's also possible that his previous opponents were too cynical about race and racism in the South, thinking that it would make him look better to some, or that it would backfire like they were "playing the race card" or attacking the Confederate heritage. Or maybe they had their own racial skeletons and declared a truce because racism would hurt a Democrat much more than a Republican

And it's worth noting how much more liberal Virginia has become in the past ten years.


by Gpack3 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Good points.  I'd really like to beat Allen - I lived in VA for a year when he was Gov.  I can't stand his smirky, entitlement attitude.


by John Mills on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:44:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (3.00 / 1)

Why didn't any of this stuff come out when he was running for Gov or Senate the first time?
That's exactly what I've been wondering. Surely, all of these revelations aren't simply the work of Webb's oppo. research?
by pragmatic adjustable hed on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

HowardPark raised good points and Allen probably has more scrutiny now that he is mentioned as a potential Presidential candidate.  However, I can't help but think that both Mary Sue Terry and Chuck Robb did not do a good job at oppo research and missed real opportunities to beat Allen due to it.


by John Mills on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:53:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (3.00 / 1)

Blogs and citizen investigation now, not so much then.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (3.00 / 0)

I remain skeptical until I actually see how the media covers this. Unfortunately this is just "he said, he said" stuff, no video this time. The pro-GOP Virginia media will have an easier time defusing this than Macaca-gate.


by OfficeOfLife on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:40:22 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

VA media will follow the national media

its all about whether the national media follows this, and they didn't only follow macaca for several days, they also followed the jewish incident for several days


by thorgrim on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Exactly.  It was from awhile ago, and when the media covers Republicans something that happened awhile ago is often seen as being off-limits.  

Hopefully it'll get covered properly.  


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:47:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Nah.  This is deep.  I've heard dozens of stories like this, but couldn't publish them because they were heresay.  

This is the silver bullet.  

Allen's done.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

I wonder if this is related to what Mike Stark had in mind?...


by PsiFighter37 on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:39:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Don't underestimate the fact that all major news outlets in Virginia come out of Democratic urban centers.  They may have an historical tendency to lean Republican, but that doesn't mean they're married to the prospect.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:10:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

At the very worst... (none / 0)

 ...it aids the "Allen is a racist" narrative. It helps engrave the label "RACIST" on George Allen's forehead. It's yet another data point in what is becoming a fully-formed picture.

 The swiftboat stuff was "he-said, he-said" stuff too. That doesn't mean it wasn't effective.

 Now, someone in Maryland needs to ask Michael Steele, "Would you be comfortable working with an avowed racist like George Allen in the Senate?" Steele has been a permanent apologist for Bob Ehrlich's racism, so his response would be interesting...


by Master Jack on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:49:39 PM EST

Re: At the very worst... (none / 0)

I'd like to hear Steele put his foot in his mouth on that question. MD voters needs to know what Steele thinks of Allen.


by Erik on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:10:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Somebody, please... (none / 0)

Hand that son-of-a-bitch an anvil!


by wayward on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:55:04 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

I could be wrong, but if this gets into the press, he will face the same issue Oliver North did. Bowers is right above- in VA- you can be subtly racist- but nothing like this. This is overt.


by bruh21 on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:05:56 PM EST

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

This is hardly surprising. On DU there are several posters who knew Allen from high school in California. They have detailed several episodes and said other classmates were prepared to come forward if Allen decided to seek higher office. These are college teammates and incidents, but if reporters were aggressive enough they could probably tie it back to the high school friends and acquaintances to demonstrate an unmistakable pattern and mindset. You know damn well Rove would have 10 people on it, digging up everyone Allen ever met.


by jagakid on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:26:29 PM EST

Deadly? Really? (1.66 / 3)

Can you say, Killian memos?

The hack admits the fact:

Over the past week, Salon has interviewed 19 former teammates and college friends of Allen from the University of Virginia. In addition to the three who said Allen used the word "nigger," two others who were contacted said they remember being bothered by Allen's displaying the Confederate flag in college, but said they do not remember him acting in an overtly racist manner. Seven others said they did not know Allen well outside the football team, but do not remember Allen demonstrating any racist feelings. A separate seven teammates and friends said they knew Allen well and did not believe he held racist views.

So, out of a grand total of 19 interviewees, a grand total of three said Allen said nigger - and, of those, only one was prepared to go on the record.

This one brave soul goes into graf #2 to say

Allen said he came to Virginia because he wanted to play football in a place where 'blacks knew their place'

Really? That precise phrase? (It's in quotes, after all.) Presumably his ipsissima verba stuck in the brain on account of he didn't say nigger this time!

And you've got to love the hack's anonymouse excuses:

because he feared retribution from the Allen campaign

and, even more dramatically,
out of fear of being attacked by the Virginia senator

Mostly, journos are inventive or pathetic with this essentials of the modern craft: this hack gets in a gratuitous smear!

No-Name #1 says

Allen used the word "nigger" to describe blacks. "It was so common with George when he was among his white friends. This is the terminology he used," the teammate said.

This is VA in the early 70s, then; and he's very carefully suggesting the Allen was the only guy among his white friends who said nigger.

Rather odd; what about #1 himself? What word did he use way back then, I wonder?

And then the third star witness

said he too remembers Allen using the word "nigger," though he said he could not recall a specific conversation in which Allen used the term. "My impression of him was that he was a racist," the third teammate said.

The key thing the hack fails satisfactorily to explain is the motivation of his one named source:
About four months ago, when he heard that Allen was a possible candidate for president in 2008, Shelton began to write down some of the negative memories of his former teammate. He provided Salon excerpts of those notes last week.

Now, Allen's been in the US House, a Gov and a US Senator - but only when it looks like he's running for prez is this guy's tender conscience sufficiently pricked.

Apparently, he

said he decided earlier this year that he would go public with his concerns about Allen if a reporter ever called.

This is a pretty contingent kind of sense of public obligation!

Apparently,

Shelton says he does not know much about Allen's political ideology and says he hasn't spoken to him in about 30 years. "There are no personal grudges," Shelton said. "There was no falling out."

One doesn't have to have particularly active little grey cells to find that an inadequate explanation.

But - even supposing every allegation in the Salon piece is true, won't the majority reaction among white voters be, Everyone said nigger back then; it's 35 years ago; you must be desperate to bring this stuff up and similar?


by skeptic06 on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 11:35:15 PM EST

Re: Deadly? Really? (none / 0)

How many people's positions on race do you remember from 30 years ago?

You think the takeaway from this article is going to be that there isn't enough corroboration? This IS the corroboration for a dozen other acts of racism.


by Lucas O'Connor on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:13:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not objecting... (none / 0)

...on Allen's account.

My only concern was, first, that folks seem to be thinking that this was sound journalism, rather than a hack piece. Swiss cheese has fewer holes.

(I sense this guy Shelton may be playing (kinda) the role of Bill Burkett in this business...)

And, second, that folks were concluding that the story would necessarily really hurt Allen - which I thought ought to be tested rather than taken for granted.


by skeptic06 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not objecting... (none / 0)

riiiight- as I said- you are just trying to get a rise. no substance at all.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:09:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deadly? Really? (none / 0)

being speptical is one thing. denial of mounting evidence is another. defense attorneys- on a lighter note- would love you.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:43:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deadly? Really? (none / 0)

'Evidence'?

You're a prosecutor's wet-dream!


by skeptic06 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:47:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deadly? Really? (none / 0)

I was going to respond, and then, I realized- you are just trying to get a rise which is really what your posts are about.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:08:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you'll find... (none / 0)

...I was replying jokily to your joke. A friendly sidebar.


by skeptic06 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:27:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you'll find... (none / 0)

all jokes aside- it's not enough to say "I don't believe." if you were to counter with actual counter facts in this situation which proves that the 3 men lied,or that they aren't to be trusted, etc, then you would have a claim for skepticism, but to disbelief for the mere sake of disbelief is about as fruitful as to believe for the mere sake of belief. What separates some of us from them is that we do pay attention to the weight of where the evidence is taking us. Thisn't the first incident. it fits with what we know about him. based on actually reading the article- i tend to believe it for reason I won't explain here other than to say knowing VA as I do. I can believe it based on what I k now of allen, and that there were three including one independent. You don't have sources to suggest that the evidence by 3 witnesses given thus far is wrong. There is no reason to believe these guys who were the subject fo the article are lying merely because you say don't believe these guys. Why shouldn't we believe them- do you have any evidence in this particular case to sustain your skeptism other than the fact you are skeptical?


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:42:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you'll find... (none / 0)

I'm not suggesting that the three guys are lying, necessarily, just that the story contains several features that undermine its credibility.

It's true that the media use anonymous sources all the time - and the most august organs admit the practice to be problematic (though that doesn't stop them using them, of course).

The typical uses in stories on politics are briefings on behalf of agencies that are essentially official, but where anonymity fuzzes official responsibility for their contents; and briefings against other agencies and personnel, where the dynamics are usually fairly clear.

There is an established pattern with such anonymously sourced stories that generally enable the wised-up reader to get be able to decode the text - somewhat.

With the Allen story, there is no such pattern to guide us.

The numbers tell their own tale: the hack interviews 19, of which 16 fail to support the allegation (most of them denying that Allen was a racist at the time) and three (two anonymous) support it.

And the circumstances of the man Shelton's volunteering the story are suspicious, to say the least.

I'm not saying that the allegation is untrue, but that the evidence adduced so far is simply unpersuasive.

As in the Killian case, a key element (of which we are currently unaware) is the way the editorial function was exercised over this piece: the fubar that was CBS on Killian shows that even an esteemed news outlet of long standing can fail to function properly when called upon to edit a really juicy story.

I stick with the vice versa test: if Salon had come up with a piece similarly sourced alleging misconduct 35 years against Jim Webb, the entire lefty sphere would have gone ballistic.

Now, all's fair in love and swiftboating. (Though fair doesn't always equate to sensible.) Just so as we wised-up ones are alive to the possibility that the latest scoop that's bashing our opponent is a story too good to check.


by skeptic06 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 04:07:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you'll find... (none / 0)

Larry Sabato- someone deeply respected in VA politics just said on Hardball he believes this stor- this thing has legs.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 10:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: George Allen Losing His Senate Seat (none / 0)

Out of context, it is meaningless, within the context of Football taught me not to be a racist, and see look how much not a racist  I am, except when I need the CCC. Oh and I taughted an Indian in front of an entire White Audience and the Confederate Flag.  When added together it start to become devasting when you add that to the fact people might actually want to vote for Jim Webb.  It might not kill him, but it very well could.


by Democraticavenger on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:14:59 AM EST

Deer head in a mailbox (none / 0)

Who the hell thinks of putting a deer head in a mailbox? peo are going to try to spin this,b ut that's some disturbed shit.


by bruh21 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 12:17:41 AM EST

Allen and the 50 State Strategy (3.00 / 1)

This little episode shows the importance of vigorously contesting every race. Not only because little things can come out that can make a race look winnable at the last minute, but because this whole racial furor came up because Allen was forced to actively campaign. If Webb hadn't been a big enough threat to worry about, then Allen wouldn't have been going to rallies in Virginia and putting his foot in his mouth. It's similar to what happened in Kentucky in '04, where just having a campaign revealed how weak a candidate Bunning was.

The extra gravy here though, is that while Allen might be able to pull out a squeaker and keep his seat, there's no way in hell that he can even get the Republican nomination now, let alone the presidency.


by Gpack3 on Mon Sep 25, 2006 at 01:27:49 AM EST


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