Diversity In The Blogosphere

Eighteen months ago, I wrote an article called Diversity and the Two Lefty Blogospheres where I discussed a relationship between linking patterns among progressive blogs and diversity within separate enclaves of the progressive blogosphere:
The Blog Pulse research paper does in fact identify two nearly separate lefty blogopsheres during the period it studies (pre-election), with Eschaton serving as the point at which the two connect.

The commenter describes one reason for this divide: a split between "academia" and "activism." This seems fair enough, for the pre-election time period that the paper studied. TPM had yet to engage in its strong Social Security activism, which I know for a fact has led to a 5+ link exchange with a couple of blogs on the "other side" of the lefty blogosphere. Another reason should be obvious to many others: the second group seems to be part of an expanding dailykos universe, where smaller blogs operated by alumni or associates of kos become part of an expanded dailykos-centric blogosphere.

More interestingly, and related to the previous points, something else is also taking place here: a divide based upon race. From what I can tell, and I admit it is not always easy to tell in cyberspace, almost every single major non-white lefty blogger, such as kos, Oliver Willis, Jesse Taylor, Armando, Meteor Blades and Steve Gillard (there may be others), falls into the "activist / dailykos" group. Of course, several Whitey McWhitersons such as myself fall into that group as well, but by comparison this is a far more diverse group than the "academic" bloggers.
Now, the linking patterns described in the Blog Pulse paper are two years old and out of date. A lot changes in two years online. However, I think the diversity patterns it discovers are important. I have seen studies that strongly suggest that even online, people tend to read voices that they feel they can identify with. In other words, women will more frequently read blogs written by other women than will men, Latinos will more frequently read blogs written by other Latinos than will non-Latinos, etc. While it is certainly not the same level of segregation you would see in housing patterns, there is a tendency for people to group together online. Just one example would be that MyDD recorded an 81% male readership in the last Blogads readers survey and, not surprisingly, all of our full-time writers have been male for some time.

Given this, it also should not be surprising that when studying mass linking patterns online, that even in a group such as the lefty blogosphere we see linking patterns grouping according the ethnicity. As I noted in that older article, it certainly seems as though people are engaging in linking habits with voices they identify with. The BogPulse survey showed that quite a few men of color were linking to quite a few other men of color, and that a lot of white guys were linking to other white guys. They may not even have been aware at the time that they were doing this, but it turns out that they were.

Much more in the extended.

Now, if you will pardon me for being elliptical here, I would like to address what I see as two different ways of looking at solving the diversity problem of the Clinton blogger lunch.
  • 1. One view would be that many of the people who attended the meeting--all recognized as leaders in the blogosphere--should not have been chosen. In this view, the lunch would have been better served if a wider range of bloggers, especially regional bloggers, bloggers with less traffic, and bloggers of color, should have been invited instead of many of the people who were invited. In a way, it would have supported a type of blogger affirmative action in order to make sure that a more diverse range of people had the privilege of having lunch with President Clinton. This view also conceptualizes the lunch as primarily, if not entirely, a reward for the blogosphere as a whole, not as a meeting where work would be conducted.

  • 2. Another view does not see the invitations to the lunch as the problem, especially since several bloggers of color were invited, but could not attend. In this view, the main problem is not who was invited, but the problem is that the leadership of the progressive blogosphere is itself not very diverse. This view conceptualizes the lunch as a working meeting between leaders of the blogosphere and leaders of the Democratic Party, and in order for it to be successful it would be necessary to have the representatives form both sides currently occupying leadership roles in either constituency. Changing the invite list would thus have only made the meeting less successful and useful to either group. The problem instead has to be solved by working to diversify the leadership of the blogosphere.
Obviously, it is possible to hold both views, or hold variations on one view or the other. For example, argument could be made that the leadership of the blogosphere is more diverse than the invite list, but is still not diverse enough, so the solution lies partially in both views. As someone who has spent a long time studying the demographics of the netroots and as someone who rather immodestly considers himself a leader in the blogosphere, I side quite strongly with the second view.

I do not think a meeting between Bill Clinton, or any other member of the Democratic leadership, and a group of bloggers who were specifically engineered to present a more diverse image of the blogosphere than exists in reality would accomplish much. I especially do not think this would be the case if that diversity was engineered in a way to intentionally reduce the number of leading bloggers who attended. Bill Clinton, or Harry Reid, or whoever, can meet with a diverse group of people anytime they want, for whatever reasons they want. However, if they want to meet with the blogosphere, and they want to do business with the blogosphere, I fail to see what business can be accomplished at such a meeting in terms of media or campaigns (the main reasons Democratic leaders want to talk to the progressive blogosphere in the first place), if instead of sending our leading voices who are most heavily involved in these areas, we instead send a group of far less connected, far less influential bloggers who are engaged in far fewer netroots campaigns to represent us. As long as you conceive of this meeting as primarily business oriented, and I certainly did, that would be akin to union leaders instead sending a representative sample of the various demographics of their membership to meet with Democratic leaders, instead of sending the actual union leaders. That wouldn't make any sense, and would be of little benefit to either the Democratic leaders involved, or the unions involved. If we are going to meet with Democratic leaders, we need to send our leaders too.

Our leadership certainly is far more diverse than the now famous pictures implied. As Peter Daou has noted, several bloggers of color were invited, but either could not, or chose not, to attend. However, for the reasons I stated above, I do not think that the solution is for future meetings between Democratic leaders and members of the progressive blogosphere would be to exclude our leaders in favor of a more diverse group. The solution has to be, as I believe Jill implied in her post on the subject at MyDD, and as I believe Terrance discussed in his most recent post on the subject at Dailykos, to increase diversity within the leadership of the progressive blogosphere.

Now, many of the fixes to this problem that we are used to will not work within the relatively institution-less progressive blogosphere. People cannot be spontaneously elevated to the level of blogosphere leader, because no one out there is hiring blogosphere leaders. We don't have titles. We operate our own blogs. Our readers choose of their own volition. Basically, we are operating a long string of small businesses, often with only one or two employees. We can't change our admission policies, because there is no admission policy and, even if there was, there would be no one to enforce it. We can't give out scholarships or fellowships, because we have no endowment, no board of trustees, and we are basically just struggling to get by on money from Blogads, consulting, and reader fundraisers anyway. In other words, it is difficult to change our policies because we don't really have any policies. This whole thing has sprung up out of virtually nothing in a short span of five years, and as I have repeatedly complained, there are no real institutions, much less institutional memory, supporting it.

But here is, I think, what can be done:
  • 1. Diversified linking patterns. Linking is indeed a type of institution within the blogosphere, and as such it is an area where positive steps can be directly taken, and quantified, toward achieving more diversity. I also think that this is a step we should take even aside from this problem, because reading a wider range of blogs, and linking to a wider range of blogs, can broaden knowledge blogosphere-wide. Linking patterns would include both blogrolls and hyperlinks embedded within posts.

  • 2. Multi-issue and multi-writer blogs can individually take steps toward diversifying their guest posters and subject content. While there can be no enforcement mechanism for this, as there is no blog regulatory agency (nor should there be), once again I think this will be to the benefit of the blogs who participate. For example, as I noted above, MyDD's all-male full-time writing corps has led to an audience that is 81% male. If we had equal numbers of male and female readers, our traffic would increase by 50%. That would be enough to pay for one more full-time writer, and give all of us a small bonus.

    I should note that while diversifying your content and your writing corps can hold real benefits for multi-issue, multi-writer blogs, it is not a solution for single-writer or single issue blogs. Some people cannot afford to split their income with someone else, and could even face major reader blowback if they split their content with someone else. Further, many blogs have carved out an important niche, such as Middle East foreign policy, that would be severely damaged if they were to expand their issue focus. So, this is a fix for some, but not all blogs.

  • 3. What few formal institutions we have, such as Yearly Kos, can indeed take many of the positive steps used in other fields, such as affirmative action. Working toward achieving greater diversity on panels at Yearly Kos next year, both in terms of subject matter and who is on the panels, would certainly be a good idea.

  • 4. Increased trust online. When this subject came up, many people were either quick to demand that we not have such conversations, or they were quick to make accusations that simply were not true. A lot of us have smartest kid in the class syndrome, where we are more eager to demonstrate why another blogger is wrong than we are toward giving the benefit of the doubt to our fellow progressive bloggers. For example, it never ceases to amazes me how I am quickly accused of an entire laundry list of things from readers of this and other blogs without a moment's hesitation. I have been accused of being DLC on several occasions, and this is not the first time I have been accused of being sexist, racist, ageist, or whatever, without all of the facts in a situation being known. The blogosphere, for all its earnestness and meritocracy, is not a very good place for socializing, and can easily lead to a lack of trust and to a complete breakdown in productive discussion and / or action.

    I also want to emphasize how this can be extremely dangerous. Several news outlets have now run false stories claiming that no bloggers of color were invited to the meeting, as several bloggers claimed in the early days of this discussion. Just as with Zephyr Teachout's false claims about Markos and Jerome early in 2005, accusations were made against leading bloggers by other netroots leaders that turned out to be false, but the media ran with those accusations anyway. However, now as then, once it is in the public sphere, that branding will stick with us for a long, long time, if not forever.

  • 5. People who are blogosphere leaders need to recognize themselves as such, and act accordingly. I know that there a number of blogosphere leaders who try to claim that they do not have a lot of power online. Attempts to abdicate responsibility to not only lead progressives, but to act progressively, are both counter-productive and really annoying.

  • 6. Other bloggers should not throw all of their problems online at the feet of a so-called "A-list." It isn't the fault of a so-called "A-list" that your traffic isn't high. That takes a galactic amount of blogging, lots of networking, lots of self-promotion, lots of good, targeted writing, and, yes, a lot of luck. It isn't the fault of the "A-list" that you are not a full-time blogger. It isn't the fault of the "A-list" that you are not a leader in your chosen blogging niche. In a few cases, it isn't the fault of the "A-list" that you are just a fucking asshole, an incompetent, or a complete lunatic that most people don't want to associate with.
So, that is what I have to say on this subject. If other people have other ideas, I would love to hear them. Being critiqued and / or attacked by dozens of people every day is one of the things you have to deal with as a blogger, but this is the first time in about three months that something someone said about bloggers has really gotten to me. Sometimes that can be a good thing, and I hope that this is a case where it turns out to be just that.

Display:


Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Excellent post, Chris.  Thanks for trying to be part of the solution.  In terms of Asian American blogs, you can go to APAforProgress.org.  It's a fairly new blog, but has the potential to become something bigger.


by exLogCabin on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 04:50:22 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

"Changing the invite list would thus have only made the meeting less successful and useful to either group."

say-what?!

Inviting anyone else would have been detrimental?


DAGGER
by goplies on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 04:52:45 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (3.00 / 1)

I think what Chris is saying there is that people were invited because they are leaders in the blogosphere.  Inviting people for the sole reason of diversifying the group would not have made the meeting between Clinton and blogosphere leaders more productive.


Rudy Giuliani hates firefighters. And puppies.
by Fran for Dean on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:02:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (3.00 / 1)

Stated another way, if I understand Chris's argument, the best way to change the invite list is to have more diversity in the progressive blogosphere leadership, rather than simply changing the invite list for the sake of having a more diverse invite list.


Rudy Giuliani hates firefighters. And puppies.
by Fran for Dean on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:05:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Basically, the question is... (none / 0)

...the exact same on that is posed about Affirmative Action in general.  That is, do you include/hire somebody/whatever less qualified (by whatever test is used) because they are a member of a descriminated ethnic group or gender, or not?  Of course, then there are accusations one is merely picking people like themselves, or the test is otherwise biased against minorities, and then there are counter accusations that you are descriminating against whites by doing so.

Now, one of the things about the Internet is that one does not neccessarily know the races/genders of those involved-however, that being said, I can not think of a prominent black blogger.  Which should not be terribly surprising.  People who are heavily into the internet tend to be white males-it's just how things work.  Plus, blacks (I hate the cumbersome "African American" term-it's too long, for one thing) only make up 12.8% of the population.  So, in a small group of people that probably leans white already, the fact there wasn't a black in attendance is not terribly surprising, unless one picked one via quotas-Quick, we need a black face!

I dunno if Kos was at the event in question, but he would be considered Hispanic, I guess.

Now, in regard to gender, I also think that many women are turned off by the somewhat "macho" language of men who are speaking in informal scenerios such as blogging (and related issues, like the whole "pie" thing, which strike this white male as silly, but many women think otherwise).  Some of the other comments here by women indicate as much.  This causes them to blog in thier own seperate world or quit entirely.


by Geotpf on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:12:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Steve Gilliard (3.00 / 0)

Would not be pleased with that characterization, nor will Oliver Willis. And don't even get started with Pam Spaulding.

That you can not "think of a prominant black blogger" says a lot more about you than it does about the blogosphere.

Oliver and Steve in particular have been around and prominant by any definition for a long, long time.


by Bruce Webb on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Steve Gilliard (none / 0)

That you can not "think of a prominant black blogger" says a lot more about you than it does about the blogosphere.

No kidding. Geotpf's inability to "find" Steve or Oliver is mindboggling. He guess he can get a pass for not finding mine, since I'm not on A-list blogrolls for the most part (Americablog and FDL excepted).


by pamindurham on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Basically, the question is... (none / 0)

actually I think this comes down to a bunch of insiders trying to tell the rest of the progressives what to think.


DAGGER
by goplies on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:51:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

For what it's worth, as one of the folks involved in this, as soon as I can grab a minute I'm going to post some thoughts on what I think bloggers of color -- or for that matter any other constituency of bloggers  -- can do to help ourselves, each other, and other bloggers in our segment of the blogosphere. 

It's something I've been thinking about latey, inspired in part by some of Chris' earlier comments.  


Terrance Heath
Washington, DC
http://www.republicoft.com
by TerranceDC on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:10:11 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Thanks for the excellent post, Chris.  I'm part of the 19% of your readership that's female, and I have to say that many of your points hit home.  I discovered and became addicted to Firedoglake during the period when the lingering bitterness of the pie wars made DailyKos a less than comfortable place to be.  I enjoyed Jane and Christy's analysis of the Plame story, but I also found it invigorating to hear female voices discussing politics when those women were in control of the conversation.  Ironically, during my "sabbatical" from DailyKos, many of the female voices I enjoyed in the diaries got promoted to front page status, so now I find a refreshed enjoyment in DKos and read it much more regularly again.

Now, we just have to get more strong female voices in the progressive blogosphere...I'd especially like to read some with the strong voices of say a Georgia10 or an Atrios but with the perspective of older women, moms, and especially single moms trying to cope with how difficult this administration and the Republican party have made raising kids.  I have a feeling that if we did, we might figure out how to solve the problem of why the Dem's biggest base voting group -- women -- has not been turning out like it should when it comes time to vote.


John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance
by katerina on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:11:24 PM EST

From my own perspective (none / 0)

Having created a site that attempts to bridge the academic/activist gap, I can tell you it's hard work.  The group of people we've got was recruited largely from the activist sites dKos and MLW, but they are remaking themselves as an academic community.  My attempt to get them to help out in a concrete political goal -- the endorsement of MD-Sen candidate Allan Lichtman -- generated little to no interest.

That said, I do know of a few individuals of color who reside on the academic side of the divide.  Our own Weeping for Brunnhilde and Eteraz are bona fide academics who are African-American and Arab, respectively.  And I don't know but that I'd consider Oliver Willis an academic writer, too.


ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future
by Nonpartisan on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:15:48 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Verey thoughtful post.  As one of the older among the 19% women, I think the most important things for MyDD to do are linking to a greater diversity of posters and diversifying the front page a bit.  The latter might reduce the number of "male display behavior" posts that occasionally mar what is otherwise a very interesting and generally constructive site.


by Mimikatz on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:21:32 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

You fail to say anything about how upon posting the photo for the world to see and writing so glowingly about the lunch with Clinton, none of those who attended even acknowledged that there wasn't one black or latino person in this gathering of progressives in the middle of Harlem.  

I found that to be quite bizarre and rather insulting.  As self-proclaimed "leaders" of the so-called liberal blogosphere it appeared to be an act of avoidance, and I consider it to be the single most contributory factor to everything that followed thereafter.  

Peace.


by Sonya on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:30:24 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (3.00 / 1)

Maybe there are people who aren't obsessed with race 24-7.


by owillis on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:11:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Would you have been obsessed with race if you hadn't been invited? If no blacks or latinos would have been invited? Perhaps not, maybe you truly do believe that we have advanced enough that any progressive can address any issue for any group of progressives. I doubt many would agree with you white, black, or any shade in between.

I'm sure that Chris will correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that at least part of this meeting was coordinating messaging between the Democrats and liberal bloggers where their interests intersect. People who read political blogs are probably already likely voters, so what you want to do is energize them to do more; work on campaigns, write or call, donate money, etc. And regardless if you like identity politics or not, people vote on their issues and in their interests. I might read about a topic and be aware of it from a male blogger, but might be compelled to do something by a female blogger putting it in context of reproductive rights or other feminist issues.

By the way, I'm not saying that only a woman can convince me on topics. Women's issues aren't my only reason to take action. I'm saying that liberals understand nuance and complexity, and the factors that motivate a reader to take action should be taken into account if you really want them to do more than read what you have written.

One last thing, one of the reasons this blew up is because we weren't in on the "secret" that you or Kos was invited, we can only see what actually happened, not intentions after all.


by TripleJ63 on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's rather a problem... (none / 0)

...of the impression, apparently widespread in the lefty sphere, that this was in some way a representative gathering, rather than an ad hoc group representing no one but themselves.

I think that, politically, it was badly handled: the fact that no one thought how it would look amongst a dozen and more politically clued up folks is nothing less than bizarre. (I'm a little surprised that Clinton or one of his people didn't raise the issue, in fact.)

And there was a bit of hubris in the way the group photo was plugged by those attending.

I think you do right to put leaders in quotes - because they are not - and we should all disabuse these folks of this pernicious idea ASAP.


by skeptic06 on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Nicely said.


by lpackard on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 05:30:41 PM EST

I'd distinguish... (none / 0)

...between the sphere being open to all the talents and trying to adopt a blogo affirmative action program.

There's no way that most newbies of any hue or gender would join the top table of a comparable thing in real life to MyDD. It would be impossible physically, and the personal dynamics would militate against it.

The top table would tend to reproduce themselves.

Coming here, though, we need no introduction, need file no CV, or do any interview. Unless we make ourselves obnoxious beyond a pretty wide limit, we can stick around, and try to sell our wares.

Unless hinted at in username or text, neither ethnicity nor sex will be apparent.

I think that's a thorougly good thing.

Now, it's my impression that, unlike many social science subjects, polisci guys tend to be exactly that: guys. But this isn't really so much of a polisci site.

So the fact that only one member out of five is female does surprise me rather: can it really be because we have only male FPers? How would a woman write the stuff different from the guys? Within the general remit of the blog, would their interests differ; or their style; or their interaction with us Great Unwashed?

As for non-white ethnic groups, again given the blog's remit, I'm not clear what part of the current content would be less attractive to them than to whites.

Now is clearly not to time to rush into anything: what with November fast approaching, and the discourse rather soured by the Clinton thing.

The last thing we want to do, I'd say, is to make more of it than is helpful to the blogging itself: in particular, I think we need to put out of our heads the notion that any guy - even Brer Moulitsas - or any A-list represents a particular blog, still less the lefty sphere as a whole.

No representation without legitimacy is a sound principle; self-selected elites are fine and dandy, a necessary product of the process.

But no one should get it into their heads that these elites have the right to represent, negotiate for, enter engagements on behalf of, the rest of us.

That way megalomania lies; and the end of an excellent little  idea whose time seems to be coming - if it already hasn't arrived.


by skeptic06 on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:02:16 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

I can say that we here at the DMIBlog are very invested in getting more diverse voices into the blogosphere and beyond. A great number of our regular contributors are P.O.C. And honestly increasing the prominence of POC in the blogosphere is pretty clearly part of the mission for DMIblog because we aim to bring new voices to the public policy debate (i.e. voices that you don't get watching the screaming white men of a certain age who dominate the Sunday morning TV abominations and the media's pre-ordained pundits).

When I do our blog strolls I give priority to posts that aren't written by A-list bloggers. Not  because I think that somehow I am increasing their readership (though I hope I am) but because I assume my readers have already seen what Talking Points Memo had to say today so they can turn to us to catch the posts they wouldn't have stumbled upon otherwise.

Do any of the rest of you bloggers that do blog strolls prioritize the less popular blogs in your round-ups deliberately? What about in the guests you invite?


by DMIer on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:04:59 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

I don't do roundups, but as an institutional blogger, one with a particularly big traffic (at least compared to other CA state bloggers) I make an effort to link to as many good posts as possible.  Instead of launching into my own take on a particular story, I will grab a quote from another blogger to help lead off the story.

One of my early community blogging techniques was to  go around and leave comments on every smaller blog that wrote a post linking to our site.  It was invaluable to start building up relationships with bloggers who have now become friends and a real community.  I have been able to introduce different bloggers to each other, whether online or in person.  It has really strengthened the community.


by juls on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:46:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

1. It is nice to hear from you on this subject.  You are always fair and introspective on these meta issues.

2.  Peter D. should have known better.  Ensuring diversity is a no brainer and he should have made sure that there was a diverse group. Period.

3. Progressive means what?  You all refused to support Mfume and very often avoid issues of race altogether.  In my world, issues of poverty, addiction, education, race, employment, and housing are all front and center progressive issues and imho progressive candidates should identify policy solutions to those problems.  

In the blogosphere however, we don't use that as a barometer for what is progressive--instead we sort of hobble together a candidate who is an anti-insider, outside the beltway independent who should also be somewhat liberal.  So be it.  That may be way things are now--but be prepared once we start winning POLICY is going to become a whole lot more important once the outsiders become insiders....and I sure hope race and class become discussed more often around here.


by aiko on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:13:02 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

2.  Peter D. should have known better.  Ensuring diversity is a no brainer and he should have made sure that there was a diverse group. Period.
How do you read this post and think "ensuring diversity" is a "no brainer"? Please tell me where I can find the uber-diverse alternate blogosphere that Daou could have drawn from. Oh right, you can't and Chris is trying to address that.

Also, as Chris and others have pointed out, it sounds like Daou did an admirable job inviting people. As they say in Super Troopers, "you can't make them speed" and here you can't make people attend.


by PhiloTBG on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:36:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

You are wrong.

When you are in charge of running a meeting you know who is coming and who is not...you control the front gate and who sits at the table.  

If you want people of color at the table then you make sure they are there.  You have several options: you invite more than one or two folks of color, you extend additional invitations when the rsvps come in and you realize the diversity is absent, or you ask people for help.

People (ie Peter D.) who run the meeting are in charge of who is at the table.  It is a no brainer.  


by aiko on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 07:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not entirely (none / 0)

This was politics, not a bar mitzvah. Everybody in the room had some power to control who else was in the room--an invitation is also an opening round in a negotiation.

I don't think we accomplish anything by dishing out blame. The issue here is not that Peter Daou is or isn't a good person.  The issue is:  Now that we see the picture, what can WE do moving forward.

No blaming,  please.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:21:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

I have to add something I read below:

"But to put those people on the invite list, you'd have to (a) know they exist and (b) notice their absense."


by aiko on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:27:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

I may be pretty slow, but what I love about the lefty blogosphere is the ability of people's ideas to be front and center before and more than their race or their gender.

People can self identify or not. In the setting of a racist, homphobic, sexist country, it is a rare opportunity to enter into discourse without marginalization and class structures.

I can discover the voices I have been hearing belong to a rainbow of people. This is a joy to me, and is nothing I would ever anticipate happening in Amerika.


by Dismayed Theologian on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:20:09 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

All true.  However, as kid oakland rightly points out, below, a bit wider spectrum of that rainbow could have been revealed simply if some blogs had received one invite apiece instead of two. (The total number of people who could be invited to such a venue was obviously pretty small.)


Keep it short. DemocraticShortList.com
by Rob in Vermont on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Great post Chris. Thanks for bringing some sanity to this story line.


by PhiloTBG on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:31:07 PM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

There isn't anyone that can do meta quite like you Chris.  Great as usual.

I assume that this means you will hire a woman to post on MyDD.  That would be a welcome addition to this site.

This medium is a meritocracy, but there are limited situations where those in power can make a decision that increases diversity.


by juls on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 06:39:08 PM EST

a big part of the confusion, juls (none / 0)

it's impossible to create a meritocracy.

the reason is... you can measure lots of things, but "merit" is not one of them, especially not in a political context.

each person's "merit" in a democracy is normalized to one, specifically, one vote.

a lot of confusion abounds... being a good writer is not merit, politically, being popular, certainly certainly certainly, NOT merit, politically.  Valuable?  Oh sure, but not merit.

it is not possible to have a meritocracy, but once again we have a system whereby people achieve a status for certain characteristics... and they are bound, as are their fans and readers, this is finally "merit" which our system has detected, they can then "represent" us and write posts about how "if you are good enough, you have the same chances"... all with the assumption that merit is concrete and further more, all sorted out.


by pyrrho on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:41:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sigh (3.00 / 1)

It's the fucking blogosphere. Anyone can start a blog. If you have a strong interesting voice, people will read it.

No one asked me if I was Latino when I started blogging, and it wouldn't have made a difference if they had. I appreciate this medium because none other would've been as friendly to me -- a former poor war refugee who spoke only rudimentary English when I arrived in this country -- as this one has been

I see lots of sour grapes. Like the crowd that complained a few years ago about the lack of strong female voices at the top of the blog world. Now, women have strong representation at the top. And it wasn't because of some sort of affirmative action for women. It was because a new crop of strong, talented, and compelling women arrived on the scene and they built their audiences by providing a solid product.

Offline, race and sex matter. You can't hide from your looks. But online? It's as color-blind a society as you'll ever find. That some people try to inject race into a medium that is by its very nature color-blind seems absolutely insane to me.

And for the record, I was invited to the Clinton meeting. I chose to spend the time with my family instead.


by kos on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 07:10:01 PM EST

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

No one asked me if I was Latino when I started blogging, and it wouldn't have made a difference if they had. I appreciate this medium because none other would've been as friendly to me -- a former poor war refugee who spoke only rudimentary English when I arrived in this country -- as this one has been...I see lots of sour grapes. Like the crowd that complained a few years ago about the lack of strong female voices at the top of the blog world. Now, women have strong representation at the top. And it wasn't because of some sort of affirmative action for women. It was because a new crop of strong, talented, and compelling women arrived on the scene and they built their audiences by providing a solid product.

I actually agree with this. Traffic and influence come with an interesting voice and a solid product and POCs time will come. I dunno what Gilliard's traffic is but he has a strong voice as does Cenk Uygur (he's mostly radio but his blog is quite interesting).  


--donna darko. I don't read or respond to comments. There's too much hate and misogyny here.
by nonwhiteperson on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:27:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sigh (none / 0)

I agree that sour grapes are in play in some of the loudest voices I've heard. And also that those who have a big readership nowadays are tapping into ideas that a large number of people share, and they've done it with timing, and with good product and incisive views.

Did people "inject" race into this, or did a photograph touted as being taken of "leaders" of the blogosphere in Harlem scream out for someone to say something about the fact that all Whites were being awarded this Leader status in a demographic that would prove such a photo a lie?

As I see it, the problem with the photo is that (by its very nature), a photo presents an entire world within that frame, independent of any other reality or context from which it may be drawn. The frame includes the only context the viewer is afforded. So, clearly, people were reacting to That Photographic Statement; the one offered by only that photo, with no attached explanation. That, I can understand.

Is blogging "by its very nature color-blind"? Do we mean blogging once you are living in middle america and can afford stable home, computer and I-net hookup? Or blogging in general? As a concept? Do you just mean the Internet is Blind? Because people bring their preferences, if the post we are commenting on is true (and I think this part is); we choose certain races and genders without even knowing we are doing so. Is that colorblind? We bring certain viewpoints from certain lifestyles. Are all of these views colorblind?

Just thinking out loud. Don't mean to sound contrary.

As a PS, thanks for being such a loud and insistent gadfly out there. I dig your work.


Dust in the wind. All we are is dust in the divine, flatulent wind.
by Nezua Limon Xoloquinta Jonez on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:36:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The photo represents (none / 0)

what people choose to interpret.  Meaning is created, not inherent.

The photo is a rorschach, an ink blot.  Hey, I'm a trained shrink, I know about those.

For some, it brought out their resentments, envy, or tendencies to reduce people to their appearances in the service of labels and tribal, identity based politics, which have more than failed every progressive constituency group in the past, which is Oliver's point.

Other people saw other things.

This whole sad saga says more about the people who have weighed in on it than about the actual meeting itself.  It's not about the meeting, it's about the picture.  Imputations of bad faith ascribed to the people in the picture are way off.  They are opportunistic arguments made in very bad faith.

I declined my invitation to the Clinton meeting, as Markos did.  

I'm a light skinned half latino fag with limited Spanish fluency.  Had I been in the picture, which thank the Inca gods I was not, all the hate trolls would have said, "Another white guy," and I would have felt compelled to tell all of them from the front page of FDL in no uncertain terms to fuck off and kiss my gay ass in Macy's New York window, because they don't know me and they lack the right, legitimacy or competency to define me.


by Pachacutec on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:36:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't get this (none / 0)

Here's the (now edited) T-rex piece that ran on the front page of your blog.

Now, rather than address that post...you find the need to clarify the following:

1. You were invited to the Clinton event but declined to attend.

2. Because you are trained in psychology, you know that those who criticised the event based on the photo did so based on: "resentments, envy, or tendencies to reduce people to their appearances in the service of labels and tribal, identity based politics."

3. However, had you, in fact, accepted the invitation and attended the event...all the "hate trolls would have said 'another white guy'"...whereupon you "would have felt compelled to tell all of them from the front page of FDL in no uncertain terms to fuck off and kiss my gay ass in Macy's New York window, because they don't know me and they lack the right, legitimacy or competency to define me."

Now, here's the blog post that started this.  And here's a salient passage (by the author, Terrance) from the comments:

Believe me, I'm not bitching about not being there. I know my link and traffic rankings don't warrant face time with a former president. However, even if you went by link and traffic rates alone, there are enough progressive bloggers of color among the top 100 or so that perhaps one or two could have been invited. And there's at least one blogger of color who happens to be in New York and to have worked in the Clinton White House.

But to put those people on the invite list, you'd have to (a) know they exist and (b) notice their absense. It goes back to something I wrote a while back, on blogging while brown:

I'll say it again, when it comes to blogging, identity and everything that goes with it--race, gender, orientation, economics, education, etc.--affects what you look at and filters what you see. To extend what Stirling was getting at, how you identify not only affects how you see other people, but whether you see them at all. Chances are the first people you'll "see"--those first blips on your radar, the people you'll automatically pay attention to--will be those with whom you share some element of identity. It's inevitable. That is, unless you make a conscious effort to do otherwise.

This is what you're calling "tribal" and motivated by "resentment?"  That's what you're calling a "hate troll?"

I don't get it. I don't think most fair observers would either.


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:06:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I did not reference Terrence (none / 0)

nor anyone in particular.  I take serious issue with some, but not all, of Terrence's reactions and interpretations.  Other who have done the bandwagon do not merit the same respect and deference, though I refer to people I have not seen gnaw this bone at MyDD.


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 12:47:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well (none / 0)

For myself I don't think your comment did much to move the discussion forward.  In fact, I read it as a kind of valorization of the T-rex post: ie. you're saying that had you attended and been "attacked" you would have done the exact same thing, with the same tone, as T-rex.  How does that rhetoric do anyone any good?

Imo, addressing the T-rex post...(which FDL should do if you haven't already)...and leaving the easy generalizations about people's motivations behind would be a good step, if you ask me.

A further step, as Chris Bowers proposes here, would be to have a discussion in a way that builds bridges and links us together more.

I don't see you or kos doing that with your public comments here, quite frankly.  "Go start a new blog and stop complaining" is the message you're both sending. Hard not to note how little that offers in way of constructive engagement.

I think something that folks involved in this discussion need to take account of is this.  If the folks who were invited to and/or participated in this meeting had simply said: "You know what, that outcome, pure and simple, WAS unacceptable." We'd be in a much different place right now.

Everything flowing from that response would be CONSTRUCTIVE and forward looking.

However, what we've still got is fifty different kind of generalizations about...why diversity is good, but wasn't needed in this case...about how the next meeting will certainly be different...explanations of the good intentions of everyone involved and the "ulterior motives" of the "bandwagon" of critics...without ever just saying:  "You know what, Terrance had a good point.  Let's do better next time."  (Fwiw, Pachactuec, I thought I caught that vibe from your initial post on FDL...with your line about waiting for Peter and Clinton to respond...which is why I don't get the rhetoric of your comment above.)

Maybe folks are keeping this defensive self-justification up because they feel attacked.  I don't know.

But my point would be that the RESPONSE to Liza and Terrance.  In particular the response from the blog leaders who were invited/attended the event is, imo, the WEAKEST link in this whole brouhaha.

Leaders, in particular folks who've been given the privilege of access, have some responsibilty to step up to the plate and speak in a way that moves the discussion forward.  To be accountable.

"Sour grapes" rhetoric and making easy assumptions about ulterior motives does none of that. Markos has been saying "Hey it's a big blogosphere" years now. At some point, quite frankly, I think that rings hollow.

As we build infrastructure...and we are...we have to be willing to talk turkey.  That means being constructive and moving forward in ways that don't create huge divisions.

Anyone interested in emailing me on these issues.  I'm all ears and am committed to communicating honestly and w/ a minimum of BS.

-k/o
kidoakland"at"comcast"dot"net


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 02:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

If you infer anything form my writing, k. o., beyond what I've written, the inferences are yours.  How you make inferences from what I wrote, the words I chose, about the TRex post when I never even reference it a bit of a stretch.

TRex has made updates to his post that I don't see anyone reading or acknowledging.

Ok, let's talk about building bridges:  as far as I can tell, among prominetnt liberal sites, FDL is alone in going out of its way to bring diverse and often underrepresented voices to the online discussion of politics and culture.  That's a fact.  I see no one acknowledging or discussiong it.

FDL has been and has always remaned aggressive in confronting racism all over the place, even when commenters at places like MyDD grow squeemish.  When Ned took shit for being photgraphed with Sharpton and Jackson, who stood up for all of them?  FDL.  When people talked shit about Maxine Waters campaigning for Lamont, and what a "mistake" it was since she has so much "baggage" for "Connecticut voters," who put up a YouTube of Maxine on their front page?  FDL.

In fact, let's talk about coalition and alliance building, and inclusion.  When Maxine and Jane were in CT, Jane worked hard to build offline ties and a relationship with Maxine.  Why?  Because we want to help build ties among people who actually fight for progressive causes, and Maxine is a fighter for people who are often dismissed and left out of the conversation.

There's a lesson in this.  If you want to promote inclusion, work offline to build relationships that include people.  Nothing about the attacks on TRex, Peter Daou or the Clinton meeting was in the least bit constructive or likely to promote stbale coalitions or positive relationships.  Nothing, nada, zilch.  FDL does that.  I don't see FDL's critics doing that.  They seem to believe that shouting accusations will gain them "access" to some "insiders club."

Jane saw a niche open for a strong woman's voice in the blogosphere, and she worked her ass off writing new material all day, seven days a week, 16 hour days, while building good relationships with other online writers.  She did not proceed from a sense of aggreivement that said, "you boys should link ot me because I'm a woman and you're not."  She focused on quality work that gained a following, and the blog really took off because hers was the go-to Plamegate site.  She owned the story, and that's how Christy became a front pager.

There is nothing to stop other people from working hard and finding a niche, especially if they can own a big story.  You don't get there by playing identity, resentment politics, and you don't get there by assuming that the online world represents a fixed pie and all audiences have been tapped or maxed out.  They have not.  

If people believe they have to knock other people down who have gained an audience in order to gain an audience, they are mistaken, and actually working against their own interests.  

At FDL, when progressive fighters are attacked, we defend them.  We don't believe progressives should spend their time cutting each other down.  It harms the brand and limits the growth of the whole movement.  When we stick together and gain power, there's more room for everyone to find and create a niche.  Everything Liza and a few others have done has been against that principle.  FDL responded to an attack but did not precipitate an attack on another whose agenda is allegedly progressive.

And what's left out while the conversation proceeds?  Liza has been telling outright lies about FDL, Jane's actions, etc. and no one calls her on it.  Why?  Really, why?  Why is a strong, movement building site that creates ties with and gives voice to underrepresented voices the enemy, when someone who is lying is somehow to be defended?

And by the way, do you really think that envy is not a part of the motivation of what's been going on here?  I get that there are sincere people who want to see justice and fairness done who have not  sorted out all the dynamics in play.  But there are others who simply and undeniably are operating from bad faith.  And it ain't TRex, and it ain't FDL.

I'll have more confidence that people really are interested in fairness and inclusion when they stap denying or just plain missing some inconvenient truths about what's going on here.


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:43:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

So you're saying, basically, that despite the entire discusion that's grown out of this photo--it's all been pointless. We're all idiots.  The whole thing is not about diversity, not about finding ways to build a wider network.   It's only about one thing:  Liza trying to "whine" their way into more traffic.

Why not say something like this, "Yeah... we were caught off guard by this lunch photo crap--like everybody else.  But nobody wanted it to turn out like that, and it would be great to talk with Liza and find out what's on her mind.  We've been leaders in bringing together people via the blogs for the candidates we've backed.  We have a lot of great stuff to say, and would love to listen.  Let's talk."

That would be more in character with the FDL I know than what has been said so far.  And based on your comment above, it is 100% accurate.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

Yes, it's been pointless.  No you're not all idiots.

If fairness and collegial discussion were the goal, then the issue would have been advanced by critics in that spirit.  It wasn't.  

If anyone wants to look for a silver lining out of this to justify the lies, attacks and smears, please consider that anything that you may look to see come out of this that's productive could have been much more effectively advanced through an entirely different approach.

Some well meaning people who care about fairness are making common cause with a few people who use the rhetoric of fairness to promote selfish, destructive agendas.  

Now, the alleged advocates for fairness and inclusion who used this event to 1) obscure that the presence of bloggers at that meeting was a victory for every blogger and commenter in the progressive netroots, becasue it means we're all being effective 2) make lying accusations about well known progressive voices, have:

1. alienated many would be allies

  1. cast suspicion on the composition of any future meetings Daou or anyone like him will put together, because it's very easy for established power toplay the checklist tokenism game to cynical benefit
  2. promoted a failed, losing model of tribal politics, like what we've seen in New York City, whose net effect has been to keep progressives out of the mayor's office in what should by any logic be a Democratically controlled town
  3.  created an excuse for media observers of the blogs to run with false stories based on lies prmoted by bitter self promoters acting in bad faith, abetted by well meaning people who care about fairness who really don't appreciate the full set of agendas in play here.

All of that has been destructive, not productive.  

As a matter of fact, the composition of the meeting was brought up during the meeting, but no one cared about the fact or even about inquiring after the facts.  There were attacks to me made, an attention getting opportunity was to be had.


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:49:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

Well...look.  That's all reasonable to say and I sure as hell don't want to get into a slapping match.  Even if I don't agree with all of it, I can see where you are coming from.  But please see also that you're mixing all kinds of things into that response at once.

I'm saying (or I think I am),"The dissing has been hurtful. Stop that."

And you're replying with all kinds of stuff about what should and should not be a focus of politics, best vs. inappropriate practices, media strategy, consensus, etc., etc.    All logical., but...just don't be mean.  I hate to sound like a child on the playground, but that's the gist.

Whatever happened, it's pretty clear from your responses to me that you guys are pissed off that you were questioned in the way you were by people you'd expected to have trusted your intentions more.  Maybe that would have pissed me off, too.  I don't know.  Given enough coffee, anything is possible.  

Or perhaps it could just be that this whole week has been our version of institutional growing pains--and the occasional storming out of the conference room that comes with it.

Monday morning we'll all be back at work and laughing about it.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:30:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

OK, well, look:  FDL is a progressive movement site.    We're progressive fighters doing media and organizing who also fight for and defend other progressive fighters.  We hold Libby and Cheney and Bush and Lieberman and Emanuel and Schumer to accountability, and many more.

We were attacked very personally based on lies by someone of very bad faith.  We're progressive fighters:  suddenly we're not supposed to fight when we're attacked?  When any other progressive fighters are attacked, if  we're aware of it and we can help, we're the first to defend.  We're not setting ourselves up as superheroes (quick, to the TRexmobile!), but we do fight for and defend progressives, because, as a movement site, that's what we do.  

Don't be mean?  Well, we won't be mean to people who don't lie.  But if someone like Liza does what she does, we will bring it.  Directly.  And we'd do the same if someone came after you, too.

As for the larger lessons, the growing pains approach to this, let's hope so.  That's the approach I took in my only FDL post related to this, but it has unfortunately taken a lot of background work like this right now in conversation with people whom I respect, whom I also hoped my have better judgment in all this.  And that's time we all could have put into some more productive, positive political work.  

http://www.firedoglake.com/2006/09/16/la te-nite-fdl-artists/

It's not the personal offense that galls the most:  it's the wasted time and effort and the threat to progressive politics represented by the destructive fruits of bad actors.  And it's also the unfortunate misapprehension of the entire situation by well meaning people who fell for the con, because that represents a vulnerability in the movement.  The longer it takes for us to succeed politically as a movement, the more people die, the more injustice is perpetueated, etc.


by Pachacutec on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 12:23:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (none / 0)

I appreciate the offer.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 01:50:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

both things can be true (none / 0)

That's obvious.

FDL can have been a leader in advancing some aspects of diversity and inclusion and have been extraordinarily flat-footed, counter-productive and destructive in more than one instance in this regard as well.

The same goes for Dailykos.  It can be both this amazing "race-blind effort" built from the ground up by someone whom most of all us, including myself, admire...and...it can be a website run by a guy who has some blind spots when it comes to accepting some, but not all, of the responsibilities that come with leadership. Yes, both can be true.

It seems, Pachacutec, that we're talking past each other here.  Which is idiotic.  Let me be frank.

Kos mentions sour grapes.  You mention resentment.  You mention how hard Jane worked on building up firedoglake. Yes, resentment is real. It's par for the course. So, let me get real. Sometimes "sour grapes" is a good way to gain some insights, to gain a foothold into some valid critiques.  Getting left out is a learning experience.

That T-rex post was HORSE SHIT.  There was no excuse for it. It fronted your blog. It generated multiple fucked up comments.  

It's not just what Liza and Terrance took from it...it's the message you all at FDL sent to the whole blogosphere.  That was fucked up.  In no uncertain terms.  Everything you all write on this subject is influenced by that post and what happened in that thread.  Until FDL deals with that...so much of the valid and tangible good that you have done and will do in the future will be mixed up with that utterly BS post.

So, I'm sorry, but when you write this bizarre Macy store window fantasy about attacking people who haven't even referenced you it's hard to read it as anything BUT a justification of T-rex. The point of what you are saying above is clear: lashing out at this "tribal resentment bandwagon" in a derogotory manner is okay...is justified.

It isn't. Terrance was right to bring up his conerns. They were and are valid concerns. Imagine if he hadn't written that post. Where would be today?

Quite frankly, some of our current netroots leaders have sold the netroots a bill of goods about responsiblity and leadership...and this situation is emblematic of that.

At the same time as we bloggers hold the GOP, the Democratic Party and less "influential" bloggers like Liza and Terrance accountable for every last misspelling...we don't seem to have to account for our own mistakes. In this world view, bloggers are "individuals" or "proprieters" who have don't have accountability to the community at large except what we choose to give ourselves. It's hard for me to read the story and some of the defensiveness around the Daou meeting outside of that narrative.

And, yes, that's BS. It just is. There is no "accountability free zone" in politics. There just isn't. The sooner the blogs learn this and build a culture that incorporates this wisdom, the better. To the world at large, including the media, we are all the same target anyway. And eventually our propensity for "calling BS" on others is going to get applied back on ourselves with a vengeance.

On that note, far from getting a free pass from me, here's what I wrote on Liza's blog two days ago:

I think everyone involved in this brouhaha should make it mean something in a lasting way. I include myself in this and hope the folks at FDL read this and give it some thought.

We've got to learn to make criticism in a way that doesn't tear people down. ie. We need criticism...Terrance's initial post is a sterling case in point...but we also need to be able to work together in good faith for the long haul without burning bridges.

There has to be room for both criticism and some assumption of good faith.

Liza, you're right to apologize...your post, different from Terrance's...really upped the ante in a way that created a shitstorm.

I stand by those words. If I write in frank terms here, it's because I honestly believe how I opened this comment. Both the upsides and the downsides of this situation attain. Good and bad can come from this. Our job is to deal with it, to not brush this situation off.

-k/o
kidoakland"at"comcast"dot"net


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 07:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: both things can be true (none / 0)

TRex wrote a great post, whose most controversial line clearly referred in context to talent, not race.  People used a misconstruction of his writing to argue that he is racist, Jane is racist, FDL is racist, Peter Daou is racist, the whole meeting was racist, "insiders" are racist, no minorities were invited, etc., etc.

TRex posted updates explaining all this and even finally re-edited the post, but no one makes any acknowledgment of this.  Somehow, FDL is supposed to write about this more so that somehow more dishonest accusations of racism can be given further currency and credibility.  Balogna.

Getting real?  Ok, let's get real.  Liza and some others have had it in for Jane from the get, because back in the day, before FDL was on anyone's radar, Jane refused to take part in a coalition of attacks by women bloggers on Markos and Atrios, calling them sexist and demanding - DEMANDING - links and attention.  Jane said no thanks, did her own thing, and has been the subject of lies and smears from that same sector ever since.  This is real.  Did you know Jane is paid by Rahm Emanuel to bash NARAL for its endorsement of people like Lieberman who shine Alito's shoes on the Supreme Court Steps?  No?  That's because it's not true.  But it has been printed.

Sour grapes are not a source of wisdom.  The experience of powerlessness, marginalization or of being abused does not automatically confer wisdom.  Wisdom comes from moving past one's own experiences to have empathy and understanding for all people.  There is no virtue in bile, especially when one propels an allegedly justice based agenda through lies and smears, which are inherently unjust.

If Terrance had not written his post, where would we be today?  A lot better off.  He could have done some reporting, gotten facts, looked at TRex's words in context, looked at FDL's performance record, etc.  He could have contacted Peter Daou directly to ask some questions or make some suggestions.  Had he done so, or other critics done so, before calling people racists and making hay through falsehoods, we'd be a lot better off, not wasting time mopping blood off the floor after an unproductive, pointless circular firing squad.

A bit more about TRex:  he's a talented, excellent writer.  He's creative and he attacks, helping to move the goalposts of what can be discussed in politics because he's willing to say things others will not.  Over the long term, we need aggressive, creative, truthful voices like that in the movement, because they help to change what is open for discussion in politics.  

But people like that will draw heat, they will become targets, because they are not gentle.  But instead of looking at TRex's words or work in context, he was called a racist:  let's be frank, that's what was going on.  And that was a lie.

There are very good people who are held hostage to fear by people like Lies-a who play the racism/sexism/resentment/smear card to get attention, destructively.  People like that weaken the whole progressive movement, and good people who associate themselves with such people, out of whatever sense of misplaced idealism or whatever, continue to hurt the movement by trying to foment these blogger ethics conferences which are really about paying blackmailed lip service to the lunatic with the gun in the corner.


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

let's me understand this (none / 0)

Terrance's job upon seeing that picture was to

"do some reporting, gotten facts, look at TRex's words in context, look at FDL's performance record, and contact Peter Daou directly to ask some questions or make some suggestions."

But T-rex's job is:

"to be creative and to attack, to move the goalposts of what can be discussed in politics. to be willing to say things others will not.  Over the long term, we need aggressive, creative, truthful voices like that in the movement, because they help to change what is open for discussion in politics."

If you can't see the hypocrisy here, the double standard, Pachacutec, I don't know how to make it clearer to you.  

Anyone can read from your use of "Lies-a" and "lunatic with the gun in the corner" line, that, despite what you say about blog wars and what's "good for progressives", you aren't really willing to be constructive here.

And, after weathering your not so subtle insinuations directed my way, my question is this, Pachacutec: why?

Do you have any idea about how poorly you come off here?


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 10:52:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: both things can be true (3.00 / 2)

TRex wrote a great post, whose most controversial line clearly referred in context to talent, not race.

Chacun à son goût. I thought it was a terrible post in so many ways: it was sloppy, committed the hoary online sin of grammatical nit-picking to avoid issues of substance, and most of all got involved in someone else's fight.

The current sequence of 'Yet Another TRex Bitchslap' posts is bad for FDL, and you just can't see it. When he writes without that 'minigun aimed at a squirrel' attitude, he's better for it, and it adds to the site.

But instead of looking at TRex's words or work in context, he was called a racist:  let's be frank, that's what was going on.  And that was a lie.

Want to know what I thought? Three words: 'What. The. Fuck?' Because it was out of character in a sufficiently skewed way to force me to reassess who was behind those words. Oh, and three more: 'Think. Before. Posting.' TRex has posted and pulled bitchslap posts before. He should have done it this time. But the bully pulpit and reflected glory appears to have inflated his ego.

The energy and firepower at FDL is hard to match. But there's a very slight distinction between that kind of firepower and being a loose cannon.


by etagloh on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 07:16:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

side note (none / 0)

my angle is I'm tired of the self-agrandizement and confusion about leadership and "merit".

This is democratic politics.

"There is nothing to stop other people from working hard and finding a niche, especially if they can own a big story."

You say this after describing Hamsher's 16 hour days. I personally do not believe that people that can spend 16 hour days on the internet are really people that represent the rest of us, I can't consider a politics that disproportionately favors such a person "netroots" and citizen voice... it's a hell of a selection function when the real context is national politics.

Sure, it's a great way to select people to RUN COMMUNICATIONS outfits known as community blogs, sure, we need people that can be on 16 hours a day for that purpose, for the purpose of giving voices to OTHERS.

We needed community blogs run by people that desire to give voices to others, and we've overshot that, and it is in the hands of the best workaholic self promoters with palatable writing styles.


by pyrrho on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well (3.00 / 1)

Steve Gilliard did a funny satire of an NRO staff meeting last year:
http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/2005/0 9/inside-nro.html

The last line is - "RL: We need him. But one day.....that Jew will learn who his betters are."

RL is Rich Lowry and he is talking about JG who is Jonah Goldberg. I think he must mean that JG's grammar is bad.

TBogg wrote up some of his usual snark on Clarence Thomas:
http://tbogg.blogspot.com/2002_12_01_tbo gg_archive.html#85746279

Senator Lott specifically excludes Clarence Thomas from this list. Thomas is the prototypical "Good Negro" -- the one who knows his place, averts his eyes when his betters enter the room, and knows how to truckle. Justice Thomas knows that when Senator Lott calls him "boy" and "orders" him to fetch him a julep and sing one of them good ol' "darkie" songs, it's all in good fun.

I think he means that Clarence Thomas can't spell for beans.

Hmmm even Stormfront uses that term "betters" while rewriting MLK:
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthre ad.php?t=262343

I hab a dream, that for all the graciousness of the white race, my own
people will be ungrateful, hateful and spiteful to their betters.

I think this is about linear writing.

So yeah, I'll say something about TRex's update where he says this:
"If you've decided that there's racial baggage in that statement, it says a lot more about your issues than mine."

There's an awful lot of people who understand the racial baggage in the statement and I find it hard to believe that a southern boy from Georgia doesn't. He may hide it well most of the time, but he does have racist tendencies when challenged by a POC. As Terrence says, his mask slipped, and all of you at FDL are trying to pretend it didn't happen and rationalize it.

You said, "I'll have more confidence that people really are interested in fairness and inclusion when they stap denying or just plain missing some inconvenient truths about what's going on here."

I say, let's start with you.


by TripleJ63 on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 08:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Agonist Weighs In (none / 0)

http://agonist.org/ian_welsh/20060920/fd l_mydd_and_americablog


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:47:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I couldn't agree more (none / 0)

A photo represents what people choose to interpret.  
To illustrate this point, here's a picture from my Bar Mitzvah:



If you look closely, you can see the desert table in the background.  And there's Jessica Goldblat on the dance floor.  OMG!  I had such a crush on her.

And here's a picture of a trained shrink who writes for FDL:



The lighting isn't the best because it was taken in the windows at Macy's and people were shoving and pushing.  Herald Square is the worst place for taking pictures.  Anyway, I still think it's a brilliant portrait.  

Ahh, photos. Anything you choose to interpret...


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:57:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm surprised at this (none / 0)

I've commented many times in praise of your work.  I think this is beneath you, and I hope for the sake of our common goals for the common good, you reconsider this outlandish approach, this graphic ad hominem attack premised in a straw man argument.


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 12:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm surprised at this (none / 0)

I appreciate the respect for my (other) work.  I really do.  But I hope you would also respect me when I tell you that your comment above was arrogant and dismissive.   Do you really think that lunch photo has no more "inherent" meaning than an inkblot?  Is that your real opinion?   We can see anything we want in any photo and, by extension, the concerns raised by Terry, Liza, etc. are nothing more than self-exploring exercises of a person in therapy?   I find it hard to believe you were not aware of how much of a put down your comment would be to others in this discussion.  

Look--I read FDL every single day.  Three times a day.  And I will continue to do so no matter what happens in this thread or any other.  My commitment to the blogs I participate in runs far deeper than a single post or a single exchange.  But I have been shocked and surprised by how dismissive the FDL writers have been on this subject.  It's been completely out of character.  You guys are leaders--leaders!  But in post after post on the subject, you have all sent the same message:  Anyone who thinks this is important is dumb and worthy of our derision.  And your comment above was more of the same.

I appreciate the praise for my work.  That means a lot to me.  But the idea that you would compare that photo to an inkblot, flippantly dismissing all the concerns of those who raise the topic--long after a full and thougtful discussion was underway--and in response to a very thougtful post by Chris--from where I sit, that was no less obnoxious than posting a picture of a horses ass.

FDL needs to join this discussion, not ridicule it.  And not because I say so.  But because you are leading voices, and we all respect you, look to you for leadership, and need you to be in it.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 04:33:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm surprised at this (none / 0)

You of all people, with your awareness of communication and lines of logic:  disgree with my writing, but what you've done here is really, and I'm being diplomatic, inappropriate.

You've made a graphic argument that insinuates a false equivalence where none exists.  You've attacked me in about the most personal way one can through this medium and it does you no credit.  

It's frequently a sign of the poverty of one's argument when they enlist the word "Hitler" on the thread, but by bringing in the image, you've really set a kind of online record.


by Pachacutec on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm surprised at this (none / 0)

Perfecto.


Dust in the wind. All we are is dust in the divine, flatulent wind.
by Nezua Limon Xoloquinta Jonez on Sun Sep 24, 2006 at 10:23:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

site vs. sight (none / 0)

Offline, race and sex matter. You can't hide from your looks. But online?

Your comment made me realize that a big change in the past year has been that what once was an anonymous "online" world, is now an on-and-offline world.   I say this because a year ago, if I had seen that photo,  I would have said, "Who the hell are these pale people?  Some kind of church group?"

But today, I can ook at that photo and say,"Hey, go bloggers! Chris and Matt are there..and there's mcjoan...Jessica from Feministing.  But wait,  why isn't Markos there?  Where's Steve G?  And I thought Chris Raab was an A-Lister? "  Progressive blogging has a face, now.  

So, intentional or not--key bloggers are now visible.  And the more involved we become with campaigns, fundraising, etc., the more the quality of the site is balanced by the actualy visibility of the person.  

I don't think it was intentional this thing that happened, but it is an interesting problem. And once the visibility of the bloggers is out, I don't know if it can be put back in the can.  Maybe it's just the nature of blogging in American culture--race forced itself into the picture, even if nobody asked for it.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:58:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

strong and interesting (none / 0)

so the strong and interesting are well represented, I guess... forget the fact that strong is in doubt and interesting is subjective.

popularity of a person... running a web site, translates to exactly nothing in terms of political value in a democracy.

this is about democracy and politics, not "who is best at running a popular web site"... this is an exercise of the people find their voice and speaking together, with a seat at the table.

This is not about finding better representatives, new heroes, and all that old school crap.


by pyrrho on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:43:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmm (none / 0)

What was gained by having both Matt Stoller and Chris Bowers at the meeting?

What was gained by having both Jane Hamsher and Christy Hardin-Smith?

What was gained by having both John Avarosis and Joe?

I don't see it.  Chris or Matt alone would be perfectly capable of speaking to the MyDD experience.  Either one of you could easily include the other and bring them up to date.  The same cannot be said, of course, for people who simply were not there.  ie. Folks who weren't there could neither speak for their blogs or to their experience or convey that experience to thier community.

However, let's say that all three of those "duplications" were removed and the replacments used to reflect the true diversity of voices in the Democratic Party and the actual blogosphere as it stands today instead: could the meeting have been both more inclusive, more representative and more dynamic at the same time?  Undoubtedly, imo, yes...and that's just changing three people.

Now, if Pam Spaulding, EBW of Wampum, and Pacified of the Soapblox network...all of them unquestioned Blog Leaders had been present...and if Oliver Willis had made it...would they have added to that discussion and its diversity in ways that the duplicates could not?  Undoubtedly so. Would we have had the painful discussions of the last week? I don't think so.

This line:

I do not think a meeting between Bill Clinton, or any other member of the Democratic leadership, and a group of bloggers who were specifically engineered to present a more diverse image of the blogosphere than exists in reality would accomplish much. I especially do not think this would be the case if that diversity was engineered in a way to intentionally reduce the number of leading bloggers who attended. Bill Clinton, or Harry Reid, or whoever, can meet with a diverse group of people anytime they want, for whatever reasons they want.

is completely illogical and does not reflect the blogs as many of us know them.  It does reflect, unfortunately, a view-point that somewhat confuses an "insider" for a "leader." The two are not synonymous.  And your insistence on validating the duplication of representatives from individual blogs expresses this in a nutshell.

That paragraph is written as if the Daou group reflected some kind of "natural state of the true leaders of the blogosphere" instead of what it does reflect: "a mirror run down of the liberal blogosphere's current insiders based on traffic and influence." It's a tautology, of course, that if insiders with traffic and clout are "leading bloggers" that you get a self-selecting, self-referential, self-reflexive group that perpetuates itself and its make up.  Can't you see that?

Let me say this, I humbly suggest that I might qualify as a "leading blogger" and if anyone had asked me I would have said that the Daou list, while including many amazing voices and truly talented writers and leaders, was however woefully unrerpresentative of what's actually going on out here in the netroots.  

I think that list of 14 just did not reflect the true strength of the liberal blogs and some of our true leadersand the diversity of our voices.  That strength is not measured merely in "traffic" or "insiderness"...it's measured in impact on the discussion and diversity of stand point as well.

For that reason alone the oversight of the Wampum blog team is just illogical. Is there any blog crew that has done more to validate the liberal blogosphere?  I can't think of one. How can pacified, whose Soap Blox network of regional and state blogs is THE story of the last year in blogging not be an essential "leading blogger"?  And, forgive me, there should be a space for any number of bloggers that, while they do not have huge traffic, have consstently provided a moral voice and leadership that the rest of the blogophere turned to.  Pam Spaulding is just one of those voices.  Time and again, when the issues of the day heat up, people have a quote from Pam.  If she is not a blog leader, I don't know who is.

Chris, I think you confuse leadership with insider status here.  That's not to knock your post, but to push you to see things a different way.

What would happen if instead of defensively justifying the make up of the group, you were to make a bold statement about doing things differently in the future? What if you devoted this front page post to reaching out and showing an understanding of the difference between the insider politics and a broadly inclusive coalition-based politics that I propose as an alternative?

That, in my humble opinion, would demonstrate true leadership.  Reaching out. Building bridges.  Taking steps to move forward together.

That's our rhetoric as Democrats.  If we in the blogs can't DO THAT, then we are not living up to our task and role.  And I say that not as a "carping critic" but as someone who feels the need to express, in my own way, some leadership here.


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 08:09:35 PM EST

One point of clarification... (3.00 / 1)

I think the Chris's list of steps and actions IS showing the kind of leadership I am asking for at the end of my comment.

I disagree with Chris about leadership and diversity in some ways, but I do agree that:

1. diversity in linking

  1. diversity on the FPs of national blogs
  2. a concerted effort to broaden ykos07

are essential things to do.  

Suggesting those steps IS showing leadership.  Kudos to you, Chris, for that.


k/o: politics and local blogs
by kid oakland on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 10:42:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm (none / 0)

Thanks, K/O and for putting yourself out there in your DKos diary and for commenting here.

[I don't know if I actually qualify as a leader, but thanks for the flattery. My simple queer coffeehouse transforms into a soapbox, shooting down bible beating wingnuts daily. :)]

You saved me a lot of time and typing by making points that I was going to post here regarding the "duplicate" bloggers on the guest list and the difference between "insiders" and "leaders."

That was an insider's list. That's not a slam, that's what it is, the lack of acknowledgment is the puzzler. There's still a bit of denial going on about hierarchy and whether the blogosphere is institution-less (it looks like Jeffrey addressed that). It may be a loosely-run institution by corporate standards, but the leadership roles have been carved out over time by growth in readership, and during that time there's also been buy-in of those leadership positions by media and political movers and shakers, and that further reinforces those roles. That's the simple truth.

I don't envy the responsibility of that position, btw; the progressive blogosphere is a big beast to feed and it can turn on you in a flash.

K/O, you're right:

That strength is not measured merely in "traffic" or "insiderness"...it's measured in impact on the discussion and diversity of stand point as well.
I just don't know, in a world where success has to be measured in some way (and in turn affects the influence and power one has), how you assess true impact on the discussions that matter.


by pamindurham on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:52:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm (none / 0)

This will perhaps be considered off-topic, and certainly has little to do with the more heated side of this argument in the comments, but a while back there was an interesting book out by a bibliophile writing about the libraries of famous people.

He was being interviewed and the topic turned to the impact of books, especially lesser-known, poor-selling books, and the writer gave a amazing anecdote.  He talked about an extremely influential book that had a great impact on the 20th Century but was widely dismissed by experts and critics alike when it was published in  1920 for having no value and being the ravings of a lunatic.

Only 1750 copies of the book, a report really, were printed, and thought it was authored by an American, very few people in this country even read it.  However, a number of copies made their way to Europe with dramatic consequences for history and World War II.

The book was "A Method of Reaching Extreme Altitudes" by Robert Goddard. It became the basis for the German Army's research into rockets in 1931, the research that eventually led to the development of the V2 rocket -- and the Blitz.

All this is a long way of saying that a book, a blog, or just an idea only has to reach one person for whom it resonates and has power to possibly change the world.  It's also a reminder that sometimes ideas thrown out into the world can have unintentionally destructive effects.
   


John McCain doesn't think kids need health insurance
by katerina on Thu Sep 21, 2006 at 02:30:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

to do business (none / 0)

egad it's all dead now!

to do business?

peer to peer politics raised this barn, then a bunch of animals moved in, "it was built for us!"

jesus.

to do business?  it's more of the old nonsense we're busy overcoming... I guess we are our own speed bump now.


by pyrrho on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:30:10 PM EST

leaders (none / 0)

btw, there are no leaders in the blogosphere.

running communications does not make you a "leader"

we don't need leaders.

we're the people self-assembled... and y'all appointing yourself leaders is totally counterproductive to THE PEOPLE GETTING A VOICE.

The people need a voice, not more "leaders".

How many times will this lesson be taught before it's understood.


by pyrrho on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 09:31:40 PM EST

Re: leaders (none / 0)

Fine. Then don't blame me for anything, ever, because I'm not a leader int eh blogosphere.
by Chris Bowers on Tue Sep 19, 2006 at 11:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: leaders (none / 0)

I don't consider Bush a leader and yet I blame him for things all the time.


by sterra on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:25:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

blame vs criticize (none / 0)

two totally different things.

having disproportionate power, in the name of the people, does not equate to leadership, but it does attract criticism, as it should.

We have not tried to forward power to the large groups involved... say with democratic systems, and if that's because it's impractical, or whatever (just don't wanna), fine... and so people answer for the concentrations of power.

Such questioning is the progressive way, as is "question authority" and "distrust authority" and "fuck authority".


by pyrrho on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 08:31:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

celebrity (none / 0)

I generally don't believe that there can be a system without leadership, but I'll try your idea on for a minute.

We definitely have a hierarchy.   And we definitely have an uneven distribution of resources--all kinds of capital distributed heavy at the top. Curiously, the most valuable capital in the blog world is users-readers-hits.  And at that, active users.  I'd say Drudge has the most hits, but no active users.  Kos has the most active users.  So he's the "richest"--top of the hierarchy.

And in this hierarchy, being very high up gives one open access to a variety of worlds (politics, media, etc.).

So, what do we have?  Celebrity, maybe?  

I'm not sure, but that seems to fit.  Does celebrity come with certain responsibility?  Hmm.  Only if the celebs want it.  Some do, some don't.

But leaders or no leaders, celebrities are role models with responsibility because their celebrity is a product of the people who:  read them, buy them, promote them, cheer them, etc.

That would make the rest of us (sorry about this...):  audience or fans.  

I hate to say it, but this dynamic is definitely a part of what we are seeing.  

Maybe we are part of a new kind of political entity destined to compete with parties, governments and media--where certain people rise to prominence and influence to become celebrities, each tackling their position as role models in different ways.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 11:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"institutionless" (none / 0)

Now, many of the fixes to this problem that we are used to will not work within the relatively institution-less progressive blogosphere. People cannot be spontaneously elevated to the level of blogosphere leader, because no one out there is hiring blogosphere leaders. We don't have titles. We operate our own blogs. Our readers choose of their own volition. Basically, we are operating a long string of small businesses, often with only one or two employees. We can't change our admission policies, because there is no admission policy and, even if there was, there would be no one to enforce it. We can't give out scholarships or fellowships, because we have no endowment, no board of trustees, and we are basically just struggling to get by on money from Blogads, consulting, and reader fundraisers anyway. In other words, it is difficult to change our policies because we don't really have any policies. This whole thing has sprung up out of virtually nothing in a short span of five years, and as I have repeatedly complained, there are no real institutions, much less institutional memory, supporting it

OK.  This is a great post, Chris.  And given all the praise in the comment thread, I'm not going to repeat that, but focus on a key point that I think you brought up.

The idea that the Progressive blogshpere is 'institutionliess' just does not jive with my experience.  In fact, I think this is the core issue that we are butting heads against, here--the idea that if we want a more diverse blog leadership, then therer needs to be an acknowledgement that the leadership exists, has power, controlls resources, institutions, etc.

A quick anecdote:

A year ago, I decided that my blog would benefit if I switched from google adsense to blogads.  Almost a year passed without a single ad buy.  I then noticed that all the blogs who had ads running also had the "Advertise Liberally" badge on their site.  So I looked at that organization and found out that to join, I need to  send a request to Chris. So I sent a request,  an email.  Within the hour, Chris sent me back an incredibly cordial email letting me know that if I could join, but first I needed to change my site design so that google ads would be below the blogads--and he asked me to get back to him to let him know if that would be OK. I thought about this for a while--I hadn't pulled one blogad, was making money with google ads, and now was being asked to change my site to join an organization.  I decided to do it.  My google  revenue dropped off to near zero as a result of the design change and I waited.  Lo and behold, within a month or so, I got my first blog ad and my revenue is now above what it was before, as is my site traffic, name recognition, and my circulation.  

To join Advertise Liberally, in otherwords, I had submitted an application (however informal), had been contacted by a principal/administrator speaking for the organization and in control of admitting and rejecting new members, ahd changed my blog to meet a set of standards per that administrator, was accepted, and as a result my blog "business" has benefited from the rewards of institutional membership.  

That's just one example, but there are others and they are all equally valid.  Not only do the Progressive blogs have all the qualities of institutions/organizations, but they are also effective--remarkable!

There are many kinds of organizations and institutions, but what they all seem to share in common is a few key factors:  (1) leadership positions, (2) control of resources (financial, human, material, etc.), (3) ability to admit and reject new members, (4) authority of leadership to speak for all members.  Age?  That's not really important.  And 5 years may not be very old in human years, but in blog years 5 years is ancient.  

Amazingly, in just a few short years, the liberal blogs have developed into a new kind of institutional model. It's young, it's organic, it's flexible. But it's definitely an organization.  I am amazed by it, inspired by it, participate in it daily (hourly, actually).  

So, the question isn't "If" there are formal institutions that make up the Progressive blog world, but "Why" the leadership is so reluctant to acknowledge it when everybody else sees it, respects it, admires it, cultivates it (e.g., lunches in Harlem with it).

Readers and diarists on blogs see and respect that institutional structure.

Democratic candidates for office see and respect that institutional structure.

Elected Democrats see and respect that institutional structure.

Big media sees and respectcs (sort of) that institutional structure.

And yet, many of the leaders on the Progressive blogs do not see it--or are reticent to see or come to grips with it.  I'm not sure which and I'm not sure why.

To say that the leders of the Progressive blogs are innovative and courageous--that would be a massive understatement.  You're all incredibly motivated, idealistic, effective and--FEARLESS!!

So, Chris, your explaination is a good one.  It's sound logic and good writing.  I am a MyDD reader and writer, will continue to be,  and if anyone ever tries to stop me I will bite off their hand.  

But what I want really want to see moving forward from this lunch-photo affair is an acknowledgement--an embrace, finally--of the leadership role that you all play in this world.  An embrace of it, a stepping up.  

The blogs have no real structure, no real leaders---nope.  I'd like to just see statements like that go away, dissipate like mist--the thing the leadership used to say before they embraced the reality of the movement they had driven to national prominence.  

You guys are leaders--our leaders.  You have influence.  You have ideas.  And you have the ability to make things happen.

Anyway...all your suggestions for moving this forward are good.  And thanks again for the thoughtful post and for all you have done over these 5 "short" years.  I look forward to seeing how this new challenge is embraced.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 09:20:07 AM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Chris, you are one of the few people who actually were at the event who has opened this for discussion. For that I am grateful.

I don't think anyone is saying that only low traffic non-"leaders" should have been invited, so that is a strawman. What they are saying is actually a restatement of what you said earlier:

"I have seen studies that strongly suggest that even online, people tend to read voices that they feel they can identify with."

Doesn't this mean that minority bloggers, who have greater minority readership than, for instance this blog, should be at the discussion. Wouldn't they be the "leaders" within this demographic, or are you saying that reaching minorities is not in the Democrats best interest at all?

Put a different way, what if there were only men around that table. I imagine there would have been a HUGE backlash compared to this, and I doubt it would have helped matters if the excuses included:
-we invited two or three women but they couldn't come
-women's blogs don't have enough traffic to be considered leaders
-we're all progressives, we can speak for the women
-we'll include women some other time
-get back in the kitchen and make me some pie, beeyotch! (That's on display too, the most egregious example is at FDL telling uppity blacks not to question their "betters" and insinuating that blacks are too illiterate to be taken seriously anyway)

These are some of the comments I have seen on the various sites which have been discussing this.


by TripleJ63 on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:33:02 AM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

I prefer inclusion to diversity, but you've got a good start in either case.


by Prometheus 6 on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 10:48:09 AM EST

Re: Diversity In The Blogosphere (none / 0)

Chris, I'm grateful that you posted this:

I have seen studies that strongly suggest that even online, people tend to read voices that they feel they can identify with. In other words, women will more frequently read blogs written by other women than will men, Latinos will more frequently read blogs written by other Latinos than will non-Latinos, etc
The level of denial exhibited by many people reacting to this dust up has been excruciating: "I don't know/care what color the person is who's blogging."

Variations on that statement were everywhere on posts about the lunch and the brouhaha. I'm not sure why people feel the need to believe this fantasy about the blogosphere, as if it has magical properties that dissolve the effect of race, gender, sexual orientation and any other trait our society uses to box people in. We are who we are when we surf and post.

The fact is, many bloggers do disclose those above attributes, or clearly reveal it in the topics they blog about.

It's like the kids in the school cafeteria choosing to self-segregate. It just happens, for better or worse. And those who want to step out of their comfort zone are the ones who sit at the multi-culti table -- that was me back in HS with my motley crew of friends. I don't know how you instill curiosity in people to seek out something different, but clearly we are dealing with blog-surfers and bloggers who are perfectly capable of finding and linking to other bloggers who have a different perspective based on their experience as a POC. Whether they want to or not is a different question.

But none of this really matters unless people of all colors decide they can discuss the topic of race without flamethrowing, and that's hard when people only address race when a major faux pas/oversight/blind spot occurs.

Terrance's idea of developing a network of POC bloggers to raise visibility is a great idea -- in lieu of waiting for an invite to the table -- but quite frankly, in the perfect world I'd prefer the multi-culti option.


by pamindurham on Wed Sep 20, 2006 at 03:59:25 PM EST


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