The Reverberations Start

Politically speaking, the biggest winners out of all of this, aside from Lamont and his campaign backers, are the blogs and Maxine Waters.  Waters is now a kingmaker, a key piece of the magic coalition that struck down the former VP nominee in what seemed like an impossible race.  And the blogs are now vital parts of the party, displacing the lobbyist-lawyers-operatives whose organs were The New Republic and the Washington Post editorial page, and whose power flowed through their alliances with insular state machines and bigwig journalists.  

As for movement on the Republican side, I don't yet believe reports that Karl Rove called Lieberman and offered unqualified support.  I see little reason for the Republicans to do that.  I've heard through the grape vine that there is furious candidate recruitment going on, although there isn't a lot of Republican talent in Connecticut.  Actually, there are several competing rumor streams.  The local Connecticut stream seems to think that the Republicans are going to swing behind Joe, wholeheartedly, and that he's got the edge in a race against Lamont.  The national stream seems to think that the Republicans are going to find a candidate to run.  After all, why not just try to get the seat in a three way race outright?  My sense is that the most likely path is that the national Republicans are going to make overtures to Lieberman, while searching for a candidate to run against him.  There's lots of cake-eating and having it too in that scenario.

A huge loser in this race is AIPAC and the Bloomberg Democrat crowd.  It's telling for instance that Michael Bloomberg endorsed Lieberman.  If you gave Michael Dukakis $4 billion, a massive ego, and made him Jewish, you'd have Michael Bloomberg.  Bloomberg is a technocratic Democrat with strong streak of AIPAC in him, so it's not surprising he endorsed Joe.  Now, I have a bit of a personal gripe here.  I absolutely HATE Bloomberg Democrats.  They are immoral, somewhat racist, and live in a bubble where a corrupt AIPAC lobby that sacrifices Israel to the far right in the name of making middle aged billionaires feel good about themselves is the definition of virtue.  They are the ultimate example of elitist liberal, only liberalism to them has nothing to do with social justice and means not having to pay for their daughter to fly to Europe to have an abortion.  They bulldoze neighborhoods in New York City but don't consider the neighborhoods really a part of the city since they aren't in Manhattan.  They think artists are adorable, and then evict them to erect another Starbucks in a luxury condominium building.  These are bad people, and I don't care how many colleges name buildings after them.  

The Bloomberg endorsement is a good sign that these people are very unhappy with the Lieberman loss.  The $1.3 million Lieberman took in over the final two weeks came from a few sets of donor communities, and one of them was the Bloomberg Democrats.  Now, AIPAC doesn't lose.  It just doesn't.  Except that here, it did.  Now the loss was quiet, and Lamont is pro-Israel, so the policy implications aren't clear.  But make no mistake, AIPAC's champion got completely spanked.  That's a big deal, and we'll see how big a deal as the Bolton nomination heats up.  We're in a weird place with AIPAC, since it's impossible to oppose Bush's foreign policy without coming into contact with the corrupt Israel lobby and a thicket of accusations.  That's a new and puzzling space for many of us on the left, especially since I grew up imbibing the 'Israel is always good' mantra in Hebrew school. (update: Sure enough, the Republican Jewish Coalition weighs in with the 'don't be a traitor to your religion line')

In the lobbying and PR communities, I'm getting a sense that there's nervousness around what happened in Connecticut.  They don't understand blogs, or rather, they don't understand the problems with unethical behavior, and they are conflating the two.  Within the party, most Democrats sort of get what's happening, but there's a kind of insular middle manager type that doesn't.  The people who would back Lieberman's independent bid are the cream puffs of the party, largely unimportant and insignificant except when they go out of their way to screw liberals.  Otherwise, they are just sort of 'motion but not progress' time-wasters.  For instance:

One House Democratic official said party members had been "urgently trying to send the message to Connecticut voters that a Lieberman loss jeopardizes our ability to take back the House." Some Democratic officials said they can already imagine the ads in November races saying that Lieberman, once within a few hundred votes of being Vice President of the United States, is now "not liberal enough" for the Democratic Party.

If only the Democrats had kept Lieberman, the Republicans would have disarmed.  I wish I had thought of that.  Apropos of this theme, Russ Feingold smacked the DLC around.  Nice.

Anyway, it's an interesting time to be thinking through these ramifications.  There's a lot of political lessons here having to do with race, religion, Israel, and other taboo subjects that we are terrible at discussing.  We're going to have to get better at talking about them real quick.  

Where's Dave Chapelle when we need him?  Or rather, at least we have the Colbert Report.



Display:


Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

Of course.. Bloomberg is a Republican


by Winston Smith on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 06:37:06 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

Only because the Democratic Party in NYC is so ossified and riven by power brokers.

Make no mistake, New Yorkers support Bloomberg not out of any sense of compassion, but precisely because he is a good technocrat.

People still need to put food on the table and gas in the car.  More than anything else, I'd say that rising gas prices are doing in the Republicans.  Perhaps a sad commentary, but there it is.


by Taylor26 on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 06:57:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Exactly and the spector of the NYC's near bankruptcy stills hangs over the city even though it happened 30 years ago.  Technocratic competence is something that plays a large role in NYC Mayoral elections.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:03:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (2.00 / 2)

I've heard through the grape vine that there is furious candidate recruitment going on, although there isn't a lot of Republican talent in Connecticut.

I hear that Alan Keyes is still available.


by Fledermaus on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 06:48:09 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

ranking primer for new members:

1 = bad
3 = good


by Winston Smith on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 06:10:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How About This? (none / 0)

"This shows what blind loyalty to George Bush and being his love child means," said Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, the leader of the Democratic House Congressional campaign. "This is not about the war. It's blind loyalty to Bush."

CBS/NYT Exit Poll

MAIN REASON YOU VOTED FOR LAMONT?
(Among Lamont voters)
Opposition to Iraq war 43%
He would oppose Bush 24
It's just time for a change 21
Issues other than Iraq 9
His personal qualities 3


by brutus1 on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 06:56:18 PM EST

Re: How About This? (none / 0)

Good ole Rahm Even when he tries to do the right thing, he shows his weasely character. It is obvious he is protecting his friend Hillary when he was minimizing the anti war factor.

Why not stop the editorializing for one day and just celebrate Lamont for what he did? Why not put in a word that he is impressed that an incument hasn't been beaten like this in 30 years and that Lamont gets his respect?


by Pravin on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 07:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How About This? (none / 0)

I'm not fan of Rahm, but cut the guy some slack.  I'm surprised he threw down with that biting comment.  


by dayspring on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Of course.. Bloomberg is a Republican

That's just a formality for NYC politics -- like the way Landrieu has always called herself a Democrat as a formality for LA politics.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 06:56:51 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Russ Feingold smacked the DLC around.

Russ does the right thing yet again.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:03:42 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Anyone that hasn't read Feingold's comments on the DLC and Lieberman should.  He really hit it right on the nose.


by blueryan on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Feingold is one of the few DCDemocrats who is saying what ordinary ones are.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:08:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

"These are bad people, and I don't care how many colleges name buildings after them."

What, like the Lamont library at Harvard?


by typewriter2 on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:07:35 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I'm not a huge fan of Thomas Lamont, but that's not really the point.  I'm more against the bulldozing of neighborhoods.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 04:26:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Actually it is the point.  You cast aspersions against a whole group of rich Dems because you don't like the fact that they contribute to some candidates you don't support.  

I don't especially like rich self funded candidates like Jon Corzine and Frank Lautenberg even if I do agree with their views but I don't run around casting aspersions against them and their supporters.  I don't think a world where politics is unaffordable to most average people is good but these guys play by the rules that exist today.

I'm not for bulldozing neighborhoods either and if that's your point say it.  I hate the fact that Manhattan is turning into the Mall of America.  However, the problem is much deeper than a few rich Dems who contributed to Joe Lieberman or Mike Bloomberg as I have outlined extensively in other comments.  

You are a well read blogger and this type of broadbush stuff plays right into the hands of the right wing noise machine meme about crazy leftist wanting to purge the party.  Sometimes I wonder if that is your goal.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:41:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Bloomberg is a Republican.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:09:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Yes he is and that is why I have never voted for him.  However, you coined the term Bloomberg Dems and then stated they are a bunch of semi-racists, your language not mine.  That is pretty inflamatory language and it would be nice to have a little proof to back it up.  And please don't use opposition to Ferrer since I can give a NY politics 101 to show that not backing Ferrer was not necessarily race related.  The guy comes out of one of the most corrupt patronage machines in the city and I know this since I have worked against their backed candidates on more than one occasion.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:23:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dumb question (none / 0)

What's the deadline for the Repugs declaring a candidate? Shouldn't time theoretically be short in their search for someone non-Schlesingerish?


by jamfan on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:08:54 PM EST

Re: Dumb question (3.00 / 1)

My read of CT Law is that they have months to pull Alan Gold, then the CRP ExComm gets to appoint a new nominee.


by Bob Brigham on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:31:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

If you gave Michael Dukakis $4 billion, a massive ego, and made him Jewish, you'd have Michael Bloomberg.

WTF?  Dukakis is an awesome guy in the best traditions of American liberalism -- compassionate, intelligent, and passionately committed to helping the disenfranchised.  Sure, he was a terrible candidate, but that doesn't make him anything like Bloomberg either.

I know you're tired and all, but why insult Dukakis?  I think you missed on this one.


ProgressiveHistorians: History For Our Future
by Nonpartisan on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:12:59 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Dukakis is an awesome guy in the best traditions of American liberalism

Except that when offered the chance to defend liberalism, he ran away from it.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

Uh.  Wow, talk about a witchhunt.  I don't like his choice of wording, but I go to one of the schools that Duk teaches at.  He's an amazing ugy, very well-spoken (well, now at least), thinks clearly, has a lot of knowledge and reason to bring to any subject of importance, and is still somewhat revered as an elder statesman of sorts here in Massachusetts.  Nobody answers every question right (and that campaign was such a long crisis that I'm sure there's more of that where it came from), but Duk is deserving of liberals' respect, not scorn.


by auronrenouille on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Calling Dukakis on his abandonment of liberalism back in 1988 isn't a witch hunt. That was the first retreat in a running rout of liberalism that is only now slowly being halted.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just because Dukakis didn't want (none / 0)

..to call himself a liberal doesn't mean that he abondonded liberalism.

Nor does it mean that he deserves to be compared to Republican mayor Michael Bloomberg, who brought us the mass arrest of protesters during the Republican Convention.

Michael Dukakis believes in civil liberties.  Micheal Bloomberg doesn't.


by EricJaffa on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 02:03:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just because Dukakis didn't want (none / 0)

Dukakis DIDN'T call himself a liberal. When called one by Bushdaddy in 1988 he ran for cover and abandoned liberals.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 07:33:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just because Dukakis didn't want (none / 0)

Sitkah - Jonathan Singer has a terrific piece on the history of the move rightward of the Dem party.  It happened long before the Duke although he did nothing to stop it.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:10:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just because Dukakis didn't want (none / 0)

Dukakis was the party's most visible retreat from liberalism at that time. We didn't even realize at the time that the Democratic Party was being steered toward the cliff.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 02:18:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

The Duke was always well spoken and a decent person he just wasn't a very good candidate.  He believed in the goodness and smartness of the voters and did not fight back against Bush I which was his undoing.  Unfortunately, the voters believe negative attacks unless they are responded to.  Just ask John Kerry.


by John Mills on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Gary Hart has shown himself to be one of the few Democrats to get it in the war on terrorism in the last 10 years. It's too bad his career was finished by a trivial affair. At least he had better taste in women than Clinton.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 07:16:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

"At least he had better taste in women than Clinton. "  LOL and agree.

The loss of Gart Hart to the Donna Rice scandal was a shame.  He was truly an innovative pol and a policy visionary.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:11:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I just came across your site for the first time and am already a big fan. Cheers to you!


Contrapuntalnews.com -All the money generated from the ads on my website goes to progressive causes to be voted on by the site's visitors.
by ContrapuntalnewsDOTcom on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:35:38 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Btw, check out www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org for an incredibly sensible position on Israel supported by Jews.

All best,

O.


Contrapuntalnews.com -All the money generated from the ads on my website goes to progressive causes to be voted on by the site's visitors.
by ContrapuntalnewsDOTcom on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:36:34 PM EST

I don't understand (none / 0)

Lamont wins. We are moving forward.  So...now we go backwards and talk about the Jewish question?  I thought that was just the smear we had to deal with when we were not winning.

The Republicans want to turn our debate about real change in American leadership into a shame debate about Jewish this and Jewish that--a tactic designed to divide the Left.

This is a genuine question:  Why we are going back over this?


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:48:24 PM EST

Re: I don't understand (3.00 / 1)

"Why are we going back over this?"

Because, Jeff, bubbeleh, it already is dividing us. For instance - I am Jewish, a Democrat, and think that the current war in Lebanon is idiotic and illegal on both sides, and American support for it and failure to stop it is reprehensible.

Do you agree? I'd wager not.

Therefore - we need to have a discussion about this. Or else, well - as Billmon sez:

"In the context of U.S. policy towards Israel and the Middle East, the object of playing the anti-Semitism card is to create a debate in which one side is constantly questioning its own motives. It demands that everyone accept the basic premise that criticism of Israel, the country, must equal hostility towards Jews, the ethnic group."

Quite frankly, we can't have that continue any longer. And to the extent that Democratic American Jews feel fellowship for Israelis - shouldn't we be identifying with not just our fellow-Jews, but also our fellow-leftists (including and especially those in the peace movement) rather than just for whomever happens to be in charge of the country, be they right-wing warmongers or not?


by jkdism on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:44:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

You'd 'wager not'? LOL Based on...what exactly? Your Noble Prize winning theory that people with the last name 'Feldman' hold certain political views?

"Quite frankly, we can't have that continue any longer."  I agree.  So don't do it.


by Jeffrey Feldman on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

I apologize for making the leap in assuming your beliefs. I lose that bet, then.

Though I'd hardly say it was anti-Semitic to do so.

But whatever, Godwin is dead.

In any event - I stick by my larger point. We, as Democrats and leftists [and some of us, Jews], have to have this discussion because we are caught between

-historic and continuing support for the country, Israel
-historic and continuing support for peace and human rights

It's a big stinkin' problem when - as now, as for the past decade - those two come into direct conflict, when Israel is involved in illegal and aggressive actions [so are Hamas and Hezbollah - yes. doesn't make bombing civilian neighborhoods in Beirut or Gaza City any less awful], and support for Israel - or a refusal to condemn Israel - wins pretty much every time.

I agree that the GOP is cynically using Israel - the Xtianists only want it for the Rapture to happen; the 'realists' only as a bulwark and American client state - and, as soon as is convenient, will drop it like yesterday's paper.

Sure, we need to have long-term cultural change on this. It's not going to "just happen" - we need to make it happen, and part of making it happen is getting on the same page.

Shutting up about it will not make things better. This, I guarantee.


by jkdism on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 06:15:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

Whoever accused you of anti-Semitism--I hope you got a crack at them before they slithered away.

Look...I hear what youre saying.  I have been having and leading discussions on politics and Jewish identity on blogs for the past year, even longer.  There is a time and place to pick this up.  This is just not it.  It's too late, now. We're in it.  Lieberman is going to try to play Jewish issues, but we can't let him set that agenda.  When it happens--we hit back and stomp it out.  We simply cannot resolve a huge identity issue (e.g., Jews, Israel, Holocaust) in the middle of an election.  Sorry, it can't be done now, if ever.  But even more so:  it doesn't need to be done.

We're activists, not identity problem resolvers.  So, if Lieberman or anyone else wants to drag Jewish stuff into the debate--we do not need to resolve the contradictions in American Jewish identity to fight back.  We just fight back.  Nobody ever said winning in politics was going to be easy or painless. All we need is some confidence.  

All the time on my site I get called racist, babykiller, terrorist lover, anti-American, racist babykiller, terrorist loving babykilling racist--and yes: anti-Semite.  Even better, I get called a 'bad Jew' by dittohead Chrisitans (that one I love, BTW.  It makes me laugh everytime).  If you can dream it up, the dittoheads pull it out like candy at Christmas.  But why the hell should we worry about any of that?  It's just a pathetic tactic by losers to try to get the upper hand in a debate they cannot win, and the best way to respond is just to hit them between the eyes.

If someone tries to imply that you're an anti-Semite because you support Lamont or don't vote for Republicans--or for any other reason that is obviously an attempt to beat you at politics:  just hit back.

We'll all be there to back you up.

Then...after the confetti and balloons have settled--when we've won CT and the rest of the seats we deserve--let's sit down with a bottle of whiskey and see how far we can get with this American Jewish identity stuff.  

And the drinks will be on me.  Well, first round anyway.  Stoller can pay for the rest--he's the one with the sponsors...


by Jeffrey Feldman on Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 05:21:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

When you stop miscontrueing what I write, I'll answer your questions.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 04:28:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

Why raise the Jewish stuff, now?


by Jeffrey Feldman on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:53:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

You can hide the Jewish question all you want, but it will be Lieberman who will bring it up using code words, or even more bluntly. He did in the past election using an Irish American proxy who chastised Jewish Americans for not supporting Lieberman in bigger numbers. I think it shocked Holy Joe that he would be trailing among Jewish democrats. You can ignore it, but Lieberman will do his best to exploit this angle and lay on the guilt trip thick on the older population.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 07:19:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't understand (none / 0)

OK...I think you're misreading me, here.  Which is understandable because this is an emotional topic.  But I don't think we are disagreeing.  Here's what I mean:  

It's my understanding that Lamont won the primary by sticking to an amazingly strong, incredibly focused, message of change.  It was a model campaign.  When Lieberman's allies tried to get the Jewish stuff flared up to throw Lamont off balance--just like the web site hacking smear--it was stomped out very quickly...testament to the ability of the Lamont team to control the message and the frame.

So, all I'm saying is that the real success of the campaign lay elsewhere, and--as a result--we should probably follow that route and not pick this particular moment to address what is really a large cultural problem--as Matt suggested--of a political policy, attitude, and religious perspective that all seem jammed together in a problematic way.

Because realistically, the problem with AIPAC is not just attitudes to Israel.  It's the entire cultural place that the Holocaust now occupies in American society.  I know everyone talks about the 'pro-Israel' position,etc.  And that's true in terms of the message Dems get hit with whenever we question an Israel poicy.  It's pathetic when these groups do this, I agree.  AIPAC is the worst at it, but they are not alone.  But the broader logic being invoked is the Holocaust narrative.  And that is just too big and too tangled to deal with at this time.  It's frustrating, I know.  But it's just not possible to displace quickly.  

The long term goal of reworking the American Holocaust morality narrative so that it is consistent with enforcing a moral policy in the Middle  East (e.g., no more Israel occupation in Gaza, West Bank and Lebanon)--that is something that will take a generation.  We must do it and I'd like to be involved--but it is not going to happen in the short run.   And I don't believe the Right has any idea how important that is.  They are arrogant and clueless in this regard, which is leading to more violence and death (and I agree...Lieberman is deep inside that mindset, too).

On the other hand, I do believe it is possible to make real change in the Middle East just by making electoral gains here at home.--by getting the Republicans the hell out of office.  Once we have people in office who actually listen to Russ Feingold, Jack Murtha, etc., then that will bring about the short term changes we want to see vis-a-vis Israel, and set up the conditions for the long term work.

That's it.  That's my only point.  


by Jeffrey Feldman on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:29:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

Let's stop calling AIPAC the Israel lobby.  It's misleading.  AIPAC is the Likud lobby.

And Likud's interests are very different from Israel's interests.


3.39/-3.27 * Save the Moderates
by ChetEdModerate on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:50:01 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

Israel's defense minister is Amir Peretz, Labor's leader. Likud isn't even a part of the coalition.

AIPAC is pro-Israel.


by musa on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 3)

AIPAC is pro-Israel.

Whatever it is, its influence on American foreign policy is as undo and sometimes harmful as that of the Miami-Cubans.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

AIPAC is NOT pro-Israel. The Jewish Voice for Peace is pro-Israel. AIPAC is about as pro-Israel as George Bush is pro-America.

www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org


Contrapuntalnews.com -All the money generated from the ads on my website goes to progressive causes to be voted on by the site's visitors.
by ContrapuntalnewsDOTcom on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:03:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

It can be effectively argued that all PACs are pro their own self interests only.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

AIPAC is not a PAC.  Discuss.


by Adam B on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:03:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Why don't you say the PAC in AIPAC stands for and then tell us why it isn't a PAC?


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:11:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

American Israel Public Affairs Committee.  AIPAC is not registered as a political action committee with the Federal Election Commission and does not make campaign contributions as an organization.


by Adam B on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 03:33:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Thanks.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Fri Aug 11, 2006 at 02:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

 I have to wonder what the margin would have been if an established and well-known Connecticut Democrat had gone up against Lieberman. If an out-of-nowhere unknown like Lamont beat Joe by four points, someone like Blumenthal might have destroyed him by 20.

 When I was canvassing, I got a few "I'm dissatisfied with Lieberman but I don't know about this new guy" responses. I hope I pushed a few undecideds, but imagine if we hadn't had to do that.  It would have been a blowout.

 That Ned Lamont stepped up to the plate, took on an established and powerful three-term incumbent, and BEAT him speaks both to Ned's appeal and Joe's weakness.

 But the media...what a disgrace. The Washington Post lede was especially appalling, as Lamont's name wasn't even mentioned until the second paragraph. It was all a big boo-hoo-fest for poor misunderstood Joe.

 This was a great victory for us, but boy do we still have a lot of work to do...

 


by Master Jack on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 07:54:18 PM EST

Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagogue) (none / 0)

I love to read this site and every time I get the urge to write or respond I find there's always someone has almost always beaten me to the punch, and more eloquently.

This time, however, I would like to dispense with eloquence. Matt, please get over yourself. If you would like to suggest that valuing competence with regards to any politician can be intrinsically racist -- in the absence of any actual evidence of racism -- then I'd like to disagree. As far as I'm concerned the two most important questions for ANY executive office are, is the person competent to address the responsibilities of the office, and do they have the integrity to serve the public rather than themselves or cronies. There's no question more basic, and it should be raised at all times.

For example, Guiliani was a jackass. I think his policies were racist, not because he was a Republican, or Italian-American, or liked the Yankees, or because of his "competence." Rather, it was because his city government treated minorities differently than whites, be it on the front doorstep of a brownstone, outside a Haitian nightclub, or in a precinct bathroom.

As someone fervently opposed to racism, that troubles me. As someone fervently opposed to racism I'm also troubled by the idea that because I am white and have chosen to support Bloomberg than I am racist. That's a really fucked up line of reasoning that ranks up there with the "You hate America because you disagree with X Y or Z" crap we have to put up with from the other side.

Let's review what it's like to be me. My mother was at the march on Washington in 1963, as was I in 1983 as a kid. I was arrested for protesting apartheid at the South African embassy in the 1980's. I am a practicing Quaker and have been for about 25 years. I speak Spanish fluently and have lived in South America. And, um, yes actually many of my close friends are not white. I'm a hardcore Democrat who has worked on Democratic campaigns since 1992. My father was a cabinet member in a Democratic administration. And I gave $100 to Lamont when he was polling in the single digits. I despise Lieberman, not because of his race or religion but because of what his position does to prevent the success of the progressive causes I value.

OK. One other thing about me, I also -- as a resident of New York City -- think that Mike Bloomberg has done an amazing job running the city and voted for him last time around. Bloomberg has tepidly embraced the national Republican party on a few occasions. That bothers me. He has also made a series of incredibly good decisions in the period since he was elected. It was almost inconceivable to me that anyone could have prevented this city from spiraling into fiscal disaster after 9/11, and not only has he done that, he's made competence a goal and feature of city government, and he's even gone out of his way to mend a lot of the fences that Guiliani tore through in relationships with minorities and underserved interest groups.

One thing he doesn't do is set foreign policy, with regards to Israel or any other country. He donated money to a DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE even though he's supposedly a Republican. That's interesting right there. Bill Clinton campaigned for Leiberman too, and I'd vote for Bill for president in a heartbeat if I could again. And so on.

I vehemently opposed Bloomberg in 2001, and donated money to Ferrer and later Green when he won the primary.

I'm a proud liberal, a Democrat, a government junkie, and a policy wonk. I consume information on NYC politics voraciously. However, I have seen nothing about Bloomberg that leads me to believe he is racist, and very strong evidence that he has done an excellent job, has actually advanced progressive values in NYC more than many so called liberals, and has earned re-election. He earned my vote.  Don't kid yourself, the basis of the massive crossover of Democrats to his side might just be reality.

Just like I can work passionately against a supposed Democrat if he doesn't share my values, I can vote for a supposed Republican if he does. Bloomberg is far more liberal and progressive than Lieberman, and a host of other dem officeholders. I thought the big lesson of the Lamont phenomenon was to make sure we judged on values, and advancing those values, not just the fact that there's a D or an R next to his name.

And one other thing. You don't live in New York do you? No shit. So how the fuck do you get off telling an active Democratic activist like me who does live here what to think about my local officials when all you get is second hand though the same bullshit media that you decry. Unlike Lieberman our mayor does not have a national office, and doesn't go on national talk shows. So you have no idea what the hell it's like to have him as a mayor. Do you?

And you have no idea how offensive it is to summarily accuse a large group of people of being racist with nothing to back it up.

So, don't fucking call me a racist.

Respectfully, El Flailey


by Flailey on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:06:25 PM EST

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (3.00 / 3)

He's not a racists, but he has elistists tendencies that can be problematic. Ie, durign the reason queens blackout and the strick by the MTA. He could have made things smoother on both fronts but I believe is background prevented him from fully grasping how to do so. I do think however he is doing as good a job as anyone can on education. housing is a bit more complicated- not sure what the solution is there.

i dont know enough about AIPAC to comment. I do think there is a big problem with the impact of the Israel lobby on US policy. I think we have lost our capacity to be the moderating voice over there in part because we are so PRO Israel that no one believes anymore than we aren't biased. I also think a lot of neocons confuse Americas interests with Israels. They aren't the same. indeed when Condi Rice tried to act as mediator between the partise she was knocked down by bush- my guess due to the neocon faction in the administration. i also have a problem with them supporting lieberman due the fact he is so pro israel- if blomberg isn't into foreign policy  he should have stayed out of this. what will be insteresting for me is does he come out to support lamont? if not- then i have a problem with it. nyc is  anice place, but its not all of america and my consideration is for those parts that his decisions would hurt also.


by bruh21 on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:28:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (none / 0)

relax pal, the point is just that these money folks almost never share interests with the rest of us, and that a) we should realise that, instead of assuming that the rich 'liberal' folks are the same as the 'left' folks; b) that lamont's victory here has shown a way to defeating them; and c) that we're really better off without loserman, and candidates like him.

as for the entry, i say fair play to you matt stoller.  really good stuff.


by island empire on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:31:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (3.00 / 1)

Well, the poster has every right to be upset and I think he stated his opposition to Matt's article fairly.  

Matt's post should be taken personally because frankly, it's a personal attack on Bloomberg supporters.  

I enjoy this site.  It's informative, has good content and for the most part supports its ideas with good research.  However, this post went way too far.  It is a real turn off.  


by Eric11 on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:47:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (none / 0)

Matt's post should be taken personally because frankly, it's a personal attack on Bloomberg supporters.

Would that be Republicans or faux-liberal Democrats? Or both?


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:57:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (3.00 / 2)

Flailey, I suspect you live in Manhattan; outside the now, come on admit it, boring whitebread Manhattan there is massive displacement going on thanks to Bloomberg's subsidizing these goddam luxury condos that are going up everywhere.  I'm in Queens and and this excema of wealthy whites looking for adventure and a good bargain luxury condo has spread to my neighborhood (Long Island City).  Brooklyn, fogeddaboutit.

Frankly you sound a bit like Lieberman with your citing the civil rights protest credentials of your mother...do you really feel so guilty about your present stance to go that far back?

When we suffered the recent black-out Bloomberg was MIA, and when he surfaced it was only to congratulate his fellow CEO at ConEd....give me a break, the fucking Red Cross was out on the streets of Queens due to Republican (supported by Pataki & Bloomberg) deregulation.

No, Bloomberg has clearly come out and said New York is a luxury entity and if you can't afford it, tough.  And through tax breaks like those for Ratner, he's actually diminishing the housing stock by encouraging the construction/conversion of multi-family buildings into single floor luxury lofts and the like.

And you know what -- it's (not so) slowly killing off what makes New York great.  No offense intended but rich white people simply aren't that interesting and don't generate a whole lotta culture -- they're consumers of culture, not creators.  Look at the East Village, sorry, boring frat city these days, Williamsburg boring trustafarian.  

Bloomberg has this vision of New York as a city of rich, well-behave white bankers, lawyers, media folks and like and as is his right is implementing that vision.  Endorsing Lieberman is logical, after all none of the people he knows have kids dying in Iraq, none are being displaced, none having problems with not having insurance, none thinking how they can get their kids to college when they're paying 50% of their income in rent.  

Matt's post is, imho as a New Yorker, is spot-on.


by LeislerNYC on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (none / 0)

Bloomberg is not my favorite but many of the affordable housing problems in the city lie with the Urstadt Law which gives control to the state over the major city housing laws.  It dates back to the Rockefeller days.  Pataki and Joe Bruno have systematically destroyed them over the last decade which has led to many of the current problems.  The only way to stop what is currently happening is to elect Spitzer and a Democratic State Senate.  The Mayor has very little control over it.

I agree wholeheartedly about Bloomberg and ConEd.  A collosal screw up!


by John Mills on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (none / 0)

Actually no, I both live and work in Brooklyn, and have for the many years I've been in NYC.

So far I've been called a racist because I cast a vote based on my considered opinions, for a guy that has shown NO tinge of racism and in fact I consider to be less inclined to fall back on race-baiting than his opponent Ferrer was.

I've also been accused of being rich and whitebread and living in Manhattan, which is also false. Though I suppose I could be considered whitebread. Last I checked that wasn't some massive transgression.

Look, I'm not particularily pleased with the fact that NYC is being overrun by the haves and that there isn't as much of a place for the have nots. But I challenge you to explain to me how Bloomberg -- versus the well documented return to cities and skyrocketing real estate market nationwide -- is somehow to blame for this.

The have nots are being screwed everywhere. Indeed that's one of the prime things that gets me up in the morning, and makes me want to support people like Lamont. Bankruptcy bill? Estate taxes? Etc, all things that are less likely with Lieberman gone.

What does Bloomberg have to do with this? I dunno, you explain it to me. Listen, I hardly think the guy is a saint, and I respect you if you supported his Democratic opponent, it's a tough call. So why is it too much to ask you to do the same for me? As far as I can tell Bloomberg seems to have a genuine committment to serving his constituents, and not just the ones on wall street. The schools reform, the 311 hotline and a hyper-responsive new approach to complaints, and so on. There are many other examples. Mike's a technocrat.

I can see why you might not support him. But what I can't see is why you would call every white person who does a racist. I only mention my background to highlight just how absurd it is to accuse me of racism. On the internet I can't prove that, but I can assure you that it's laughable.

As far as I'm concerned we should be trying to figure out how to get Bloomberg to switch sides, so he doesn't feel like he has to do his pro-forma support of the Republican party. I'm not the only one that's talked about this -- I think Kos has written about the bubbling conflicts between our new generation of liberals and the old school northeastern democratic machine. The fact is that Bloomberg, who's hardly a hardline conservative, knew full well he could never win a Democratic primary. It's a similar calculus that Lamont faced, without the hated and inept Lieberman factor to help him out.

As for the subtext here, which is that Bloomberg is a pawn of the jews and/or AIPAC, I want to see some evidence. The guy has NO role in foreign policy. He's a freakin' mayor for gods sakes. I am deeply disturbed at the policies of the Israeli right and the settlements. Should I vote for mayor hoping to change that? Huh? Should I fall prey to the jewish conspiracy fearmongering and charges of racism in the post I responded to? I don't think so.

Matt Stoller said, clearly and an no uncertain terms, that I'm a racist. Fuck that.


by Flailey on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:17:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (none / 0)

No, I didn't say you were a racist.  Most of NYC voted for Bloomberg, but most of NYC didn't fund Bloomberg.

What I said was that there is a certain type of large-scale financial backer of Bloomberg who thinks he's a viable third-party candidate for President, and who backs Israel and a pro-Iraq war stance fiercely.   The elitism and fear of these donors is a seriously pollutant in our political system, and they also tend to have a bit of a white man's burden complex.  I'm a younger Jew, and these are older Jews, and there's a lot of unstated tension there.


by Matt Stoller on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:12:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Mike for Prez - Are You Kidding??? (none / 0)

1 - Mike Bloomberg almost exclusively self funded both campaigns.  Anything these people gave to him was minimal.  I am sure they are friends and run in social circles together but their money was pocket change.

2 - Mike Bloomberg for President is a bigger joke even here in NYC than George Pataki's run.  The guy has no charisma, is a bad public speaker and does not like to greet voters as evidence by his refusal to go to Queens during the Con Ed fiasco.  Relax.  This is going nowhere fast but it might be good for the economy with all he'll spend.  

The biggest R/I threat from NY is Rudy
but I still don't think the Rs will get past his liberal views on abortion and gay rights.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:34:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mike for Prez - Are You Kidding??? (none / 0)

Another thought - 3 moderate Rs from NY running against each could be good as they are all going for the same vote.  I still put my money on Rudy breaking from the pack if anyone will.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:38:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (3.00 / 1)

Well if you say "I absolutely HATE Bloomberg Democrats.  They are immoral, somewhat racist...  These are bad people...." and so on then it probably behooves you to explain what the hell you're talking about. You didn't qualify that statement. If you're qualifying it now to be restricted to a small set of people who fit much more stringent criteria then good, I'm glad your accusing me of racism was due to sloppy wording, not intent.

And I'd like to respectfully submit that your entire frame is off. We shouldn't be bashing and marginalizing people like Bloomberg, we should be trying to win people like him over to our side. He's very progressive, seems to genuinely give a shit about serving every one of his constituents, and is extraordinarily good at the actual details of governing. We need people like him, and if he's freed from having to pay lip service to republicans we all benefit.

For you and others who don't live in New York, make sure you don't miss a sea change now underway. The old patronage and machine-like democratic party that has been in NY for generations is slowly crumbling. People here (and in NJ, CT, etc) voted for republicans, despite being quite liberal, for a reason. The Democrats in many cases were inept and sometimes corrupt.

We're at an inflection point in Northeastern dem politics. We're getting rid of the Liebermans, the Dinkins, the Ferrers, the Cuomos, and replacing them with Lamonts, Spitzers, and other people who know what they're doing. Just like the black community in the last few years has moved past simple reflexive support for corrupt candidates like Sharpe James or Marion Barry in favor of Booker or Williams. It's a good thing, and Lamont is a great example of it. Let's not get sidetracked by an irellevant narrative.


by Flailey on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:44:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Memo to Matt Stoller (subtext: eat me, demagog (none / 0)

"The old patronage and machine-like democratic party that has been in NY for generations is slowly crumbling. People here (and in NJ, CT, etc) voted for republicans, despite being quite liberal, for a reason. The Democrats in many cases were inept and sometimes corrupt."

Exactly.  If you are not from the area you don't understand why the Dems have lost 4 consecutive Mayoral elections despite the heavy registration advantage.  An excellent post.  I couldn't have said it better.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:50:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

I have to wonder what the margin would have been if an established and well-known Connecticut Democrat had gone up against Lieberman.

That would depend on what the Democrat was well-known for.

And Lamont's unknown status may helped because it allowed him to be a blank slate upon which to define himself.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:13:37 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I'll second Jeffrey Feldman's remark on this post. Where did this post come from?

My reaction is that the whole rant is a bit of a non sequitur, and unconstructive as well.


by Owlswater on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:19:56 PM EST

Re: "Bloomberg Democrats" (none / 0)

Matt, congrats on your great victory. Try to stay on an even keel. Not every Democrat who voted for Bloomberg is immoral and somewhat evil. Let's not go making unnecessary enemies like Bush and Olmert have done. You have been doing a great job but this is not your best work.

You have good reason to take on the AIPAC lobby and those that support Israeli right-wing parties. They have not helped Israel or America by their belligerence. Shock and Awe is a strategy that will lead to violent conflict between Israel and tens of millions of Muslims. The numbers are against Israel. Force must be used much more carefully and intelligently if it is to have any positive effects. Wanton use of force increases instability and decreases security.  We need to make clear that we support Israel but we don't support Bush's belligerent neocon policies because they hurt Israel and America.


by sb on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:27:04 PM EST

Re: "Bloomberg Democrats" (3.00 / 1)

Billmon speaks:

What depresses me most about the constant playing and replaying of the anti-Semitism card isn't the fact that I'm currently a target of it -- Billmon is just an bunch of electrons, a shadow of the blogosphere, and it doesn't matter what the pro-Israel partisans say about him -- but the blanket of dishonesty and fear it throws over any discussion of Israel and Israel's special relationship with the United States.

I mean, here we have an incredibly powerful lobby -- as effective in its own sphere of interest as the NRA is with firearms, if not more so -- and yet when a critic of Israel (or even worse, a goy critic of Israel) dares to mentions that power and influence it's treated as the moral equivalent of a Julius Streicher editorial. The other day one of my e-mail stalkers accused me of writing stuff that could have appeared in the Völkischer Beobachter.

Now why would I want to do that when Fox News already has that market locked up?

On the other hand, when a Jewish writer for the New Yorker quoted AIPAC's top lobbyist saying this:

"You see this napkin? In twenty-four hours, we could have the signatures of seventy senators on this napkin."

[...]

I do see it as yet another example of the increasingly impermeable bubble that America now lives in -- a kind of virtual reality in which the government, both political parties and the major media tacitly agree to ignore threatening facts or uncomfortable contradictions if recognizing them would upset the "mainstream" consensus. And America's alliance with Israel is a cherished part of that consensus. (emphasis mine)

Billmon's been on fire.


by KimPossible on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:39:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

That RJC ad really is ironic because it sets up the Democratic party as anti-Israel (makes sense since they're Republican) but expects people to forget that the Democrats were falling all over each other a few weeks ago to show they could love Israel more than the Republicans.


by KimPossible on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:35:03 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Given the huge financial support Joe gets from the likes of Perelman and Rattner, and the endorsement of Bloomberg, perhaps he should have named his new party "New York Billionaires for Lieberman"?


by Bob H on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:50:16 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I think its a huge mistake to even make any attempt to bring Israel and its present conflict into the issue of Lamont/Lieberman.

Matt, unfortunately, seems to be following the whole "AIPAC started the Iraq War and controls the Bush Foreign Policy Agenda", conspiracy theory. I guess that's why Lieberman and Bush are so close, cuz one is a tool of AIPAC and Bloomberg Dem's and the other (Bush) employs them in his Defense Department, right?

The Iraq War was definitely not in the interest of the Security of Israel. There may have been voices in Israel that advocated American action against Iraq, but those voices were in the minority, just like they were in the US. The only difference is that George Bush was president of the US, not Israel.

I can not possibly blame Israel for what it is currently doing in Lebannon. If the US had to live through the same number of suicide bombings, rocket attacks and threats of exterminaton I shudder to think what our response would be, and rightfully so. When an armed and well supplied group of people is dedicated to nothing more than the extermination of you and all those like you, what other choice do you have.


by bjschmid on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:04:56 PM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Matt, unfortunately, seems to be following the whole "AIPAC started the Iraq War and controls the Bush Foreign Policy Agenda", conspiracy theory.

That's just unfair characterization and innuendo.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 01:04:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

"The Iraq War was definitely not in the interest of the Security of Israel. There may have been voices in Israel that advocated American action against Iraq, but those voices were in the minority, just like they were in the US. The only difference is that George Bush was president of the US, not Israel."

But that's just the point.  AIPAC isn't persuing the interests of the security of Israel, no more than Dubya is persuing the security interests of the United States.  Both have agendas, but neither is actually good for the country they represent.  Sure, they think they're doing the right thing; but what exactly is "the right thing"?  AIPAC has repeatedly been shown up as a hard-right Likud organ that's not afraid to infiltrate and subvert their best allies.

Every time we get someone going down the road to peace, some warmonger or paranoid steps in and screws it up; not just on the Palestinian or Arab side, but also from the Israeli side.  AIPAC - along with Bush's and Bibi's friends Feith, Wolfowitz, and company - have had major impacts on the policy of both countries, and if you think that's simply a conspiracy theory, ask yourself just how far off-plan we are from either PNAC or "Clean Break".

As to what Israel is doing in Lebanon, I can certainly think of a few things Israel is doing that I can "blame them" for - most notably bombing Beirut back into the stone age from which it was emerging for no particular or discernable reason.  Rockets weren't raining on Israel before they retaliated disproportionately for the kidnapping of the two soldiers; Israel still hasn't gotten its soldiers back, and has caused and received incredible collateral damage as a result of its response.  Like the U.S., it is looking more belligerent and less willing to "deal".  The main result is that the people who really want war - on both sides - are getting their wishes granted, and innocents on both sides are suffering.

If the U.S. had a similar situation in Mexico or Canada, I would hope that the result would be a swift and overwhelming response surrounding and partitioning the region and disarming/capturing the offending groups.  I would also hope that we wouldn't bomb Mexico City in response to a group of insurgents in the Baja that the Mexican government wasn't capable of containing, in hopes that they'd try anyway.


by Phoenix Rising on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 02:29:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

New DC Crowd Tells Us What's Wrong with The World (none / 0)

I did not vote for Bloomberg either time and he is no doubt an elitist.  However, Matt's post is totally over the top, quite elitist itself and a largely inaccurate portrait of NYC but of course he lives in DC and knows all as most in that city do.  I should know, I used to live there.  He is just part of the up and coming power elite who will no doubt in a few years tell us what we in the rest of America are doing wrong.  That is the way of DC and one of the many reasons I left that hell hole.

Matt - since you know all, do you know where Crown Heights Brooklyn or the Wakefield section of the Bronx are?  Do you know that the biggest affordable housing problems are in Manhattan?  Do you know that the city is embarking on building 165K affordable housing units , the first in a quarter century?  Did you know one of the biggest problems is that the State of NY controls many of the rent and housing laws and thanks to Gov Pataki they have been weakened in the past decade?  

I live in NY and live with the affordability issue every single day.  I am not a Bloomberg fan but I get really sick of these non-factual rantings which impune large groups of people and cities.  Stick to what you know which is DC.


by John Mills on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:34:31 PM EST

Re: New DC Crowd Tells Us What's Wrong (none / 0)

Matt - since you know all..

That's what you say.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 01:05:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I voted for Bloomberg.  I donated to Lamont.  I don't recognize any of myself in the stereotype described by Matt, so I guess I'm not offended, but I'm totally baffled at what he was hoping to accomplish with this rant.

We don't need to relive divisive moments of the past, particularly when everyone WAS riding a high.  Whatever motivated this post, I hope Matt has it off his chest for good.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:36:14 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

My problem with posts like this is the intolerance and the ignorance of the facts.  You don't like Mike Bloomberg.  Fine.  Rant about his support of Lieberman but to say that Bloomberg Dems, whomever they may be, are semi-racists is just too much.  Why because they wouldn't support Ferrer and his crew of patronage hacks.  I voted for a 3rd party candidate since I know him and his crew up close and personal.

I also hate these broad generalizations from outsiders about the city I love and live in which are semi-true.  We do have too many condos going up in Manhattan, parts of Bklyn and Long Island City and rents are way too high.  On the other hand, we have some wonderful thriving immigrant neighborhoods in the Bronx, Brooklyn and Queens which 10 years ago were all but abandoned.  It's a mixed bag.

As someone who is actively working on the problem of affordable housing on a Community Board I know the Mayor, whomever he might be, has very limited power to address it because it is mainly governed by state law.  That is why winning the Governorship and the State Senate is so important.  But why let facts get in the way.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:59:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (3.00 / 1)

Hi Matt,

Here is some of my feedback to the AIPAC issue. It may give some food for thought.

FYI, I am Jewish.

I wrote a recent letter to many editors, which hit over 100,000 readers in my region. Here it is.

Dear Editor,

I must wonder why the bush administration neocons are so adamant about having my Jewish Homeland, Israel, bear the brunt of this new fighting in Lebanon.

I must wonder why so called radical rapturites are so convinced that the end of days are coming.

I think I have a new understanding.

The bushies really don't support the Jewish state, they just want them to get all bloodied fighting in some endless proxy war.

The bushies really don't care if the Israeli's have to live in bunkers for ever and ever.

In fact, the bushies don't care if innocent civilians on both sides are killed, be them arab or jew or gentile - for the bushies they are some expendable pawns for some silly game of armegeddon and domination.

The bushies don't care if Lebanon is leveled and destroyed or bombs keep flying on innocents in Haifa. The bushies just have this crazy master plan for destructipn and destabilization. In fact, destruction seems to be the only thing that the bushies are capable of.

To Israel I ask, please wake up you are being used.

As my father used to say with his infinite kitchen table wisdom, "I would not wish this on my worst enemy".

Its time my friends to step back from the brink and say to the radical neocon rapturites that dominate the bush administration,

"The rapture is not coming anytime soon and we want no more of this insanity. Neither does Jesus."

Thanks for listening.

Also, Matt, I wrote the following as a reply to someone who always retorts to me via email re: my letters to the editor.

Thanks for your ongoing dialogue.

Simply put, killing people creates enemies for all sides involved. But as humans, we have a tendency to want to be right at all costs - even if it means killing others and playing the part of victim - with the attached 'who me' syndrome

However, killing and maiming does not work - if infact the aim is to win friends and influence people, which is the essence of real power. Force is simply a tool of people who feel powerless from the individual to the nation state.

There is an opening for a way that works, however, insanity is currently at play in the meantime.

What I would suggest is finding ways to wage peace, create empathy for suffering of ourselves and others then learning how to reconcile. It was done in south africa after apartheid - it needs to be done world wide.

After all with over 6 billion humans on the planet, it would probably work much better if we found ways to make more friends.

This fear shit is getting to be old already. Like that old 8 track in the basement. Just an old recording seeking new material.

Thats it Matt. I hope you can use it.

Plus, it was great to see you in Meriden.

Truly,
Leslie


by rockygabriel on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:37:14 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

"As for movement on the Republican side, I don't yet believe reports that Karl Rove called Lieberman and offered unqualified support.  I see little reason for the Republicans to do that."

I'm inclined to agree. Only reason I could think of why the White House might actually do that would be if they were thinking to woo Lieberman to caucus with Republicans if he won and Democrats picked up six senate seats in November. But that does seem like a bit of a reach.


by CalD on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:52:08 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

It depends on Rove's calculations. If he decides JoMo will win he'll try to buy him in advance. If he thinks the GOP will win a divided election or that Lamont will win, then not even a sqib cracker for JoMo.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 01:10:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Correct. But I seriously doubt Mr. Rove is banking on any serious chance of Alan Schlesinger winning the seat outright. The man is evil, he's not stupid (Rove, that is). And given all the polling and the fact that undecideds seem to have broken pretty strongly for ol' Joe in the final days of the primary race, one would have to be a little starry-eyed to think Liberban has no chance of retaking the seat as an independent. I do think the dynamics of the race are likely to change significantly now that Lamont has pulled off an upset for the nomination but it's a long way from in the bag for him in a race against Lieberman.


by CalD on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:42:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I have no idea what Rove's internal polling shows. He'll find a way to funnel help to JoMo or Schlesinger depending on what his numbers say.


With Democrats Lieberman goes for the jugular. With Republicans he goes for the lips.
by Sitkah on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:48:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I'm occasionally pro-Israel myself. I think they need to get the fuck out of Lebannon and should never have gone in. It's hurting them more than Hezbollah is. So really, I'm pro-Israel as opposed to Krauthammer who apparently is pro-insanity.


by MNPundit on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 01:36:29 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

Yup, Krauthammer is a nut case.  MJ Rosenberg wrote this yesterday over at TPM Cafe:

About three years ago, I saw Krauthammer flip out in synagogue on Yom Kippur. The rabbi had offered some timid endorsement of peace -- peace essentially on Israel's terms -- but peace anyway. Krauthammer went nuts. He actually started bellowing at the rabbi, from his wheel chair in the aisle. People tried to "shush" him. It was, after all, the holiest day of the year. But Krauthammer kept howling until the rabbi apologized. The man is as arrogant as he is thuggish. Who screams at the rabbi at services? For advocating peace?


by KimPossible on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 08:22:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bloomberg is a Republican who is... (3.00 / 1)

...against civil liberties.

Bloomberg arranged for the mass arrest of protesters during the 2004 Republican Convention.

He wouldn't let protesters use the Central Park great lawn, under the excuse that they would damage it.

It is tasteless for you to compare Bloomberg to Michael Dukakis.


by EricJaffa on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 01:58:42 AM EST

The democrats are still passive (none / 0)

I am sorry that I don't share the same enthusiasm for the overall party spirit yet. While I am ecstatic about Lamont's victory and optimistic he can pull it off again, some things need to change. Democratic establishment needs to grow a pair of balls.
First of all, the elections are over. There is no need to preface Lamont's name with the term "the winner of the Democratic primary". It just seems so defensive. I want to see more enthusiasm. They can weasel out of their prior endorsements by saying that they did their job endorsing a long term member but the electorate has shown that there is a need for new blood and that it would be silly to disregard it. And they need to be more assertive about Lieberman. They should remind the press how they helped Lieberman because of party ties and that Lieberman should at least show some gratitude to the help he got from the party establishment in the last few months. They should be reminding the press that it was because of a lot of party help that Lieberman was able to make it close. And they should say that at the very least, Lieberman should not be scapegoating his colleagues for what he terms the divisive nature of the country when he is the one bashing Lamont and his supporters who are part of the country he wants to unite.

They should show more freaking enthusiasm. If you do not crush Lieberman fast enough, he will be a force to reckon with. I want to see some tut tuts from the establishment regarding Lieberman's speech last night and his press appearances since then where he is bashing a big segment of potential voters.

And here is another thing. I have not been the biggest Waters fan in the past. But I am immensely grateful for her hard work for the Lamont campaign and her immensely classy non publicity whoring behavior when Lamont won(Jesse Jackson was in his usual limelight seeking mode while Maxine was nowhere to be seen on the stage during Lamont's greatest moment).
Anyway, when Lieberman was using Waters as an excuse to justify his characterization of Lamont to be associated with extremists, why didn't a single DEmocratic bigwig admonish Lieberman for bashing Waters as an extremist when he consorts with the Hannitys of this world without bashing a single person on the right? Where was the party today defending a DEMOCRAT like Waters when Lieberman was bashing her? You think Rahm would keep quiet if Dean attacked a party member publicly?

All I saw today was many democrats going through the motions because they are scared of looking like party traitors.

I have not been an Edwards fan, but he has done the right thing. Wesley Clark has done the right thing. Elizabeth Edwards continues to be a fighting spirit by calling Liebs on his bullshit even before last night's election. This is the kind of stuff i want to see.


by Pravin on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 06:44:44 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

It's more than balls.

Both parties are basically in the grasp of the corporatist vision of america.

This view holds that corporations are the salvation and the essence of america.  They solve problems, create jobs, housing, deliver health care and so on.

The repuks believe that you need to leave them alone to do their thing and the profit motive is what will drive the "development" and progress.  Dems simply want to regulate them and make sure they behave with a social conscience.

Dems are trying to put a bandaid on a system which is deeply flawed and exploitive.  If you take the exploitation out of capital and business you destroy it.

NYC is run for and by capital / real estate. The financial and the real estate sector are the perfect microcosms of what is wrong with how the city is run.  It is not about jobs and creating a great environment for the people who live here.  it is about creating a disney like island which caters to the "needs" of the wealthy... food, entertainment... and high priced toys and baubles to display your level of wealth.

All the mayors get in bed with this vision and suck up to real estate interests which are not about housing, but about making lots of cash.  Why should the city support the NY Yankees and give them McCombs park in the Bronx?  Why don't they support arts education in schools instead of tax breaks for corportions?

Ned Lamont may be another capitalist with a conscience.. which is better than one without one.  But we really need to redirect the focus of america and make it about the people and not about wealth creation.  It's not about that anyone can make a million bucks if you try.. it needs to be about taking care of the needs of the people, housing, education, health care, jobs... liesure activities.

Sadly the fight is in the hands of the capitalists with a conscience to do the right thing.  John Edwards is another example.

In the not too distant future capitalism will consume itself for the pyramid scheme it is.  Then chaos will rule.  Thank you very much Adam Smith and your billionaires.


by DefJef on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 08:55:27 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

"NYC is run for and by capital / real estate."

This is very true in Manhattan, Western Queens and Western Brooklyn but you need to go to some of the thriving neighborhoods like Bushwick and Mott Haven that 10-15 years ago were largely abandoned.  It is exciting and very good for the city as a whole.

The key is getting a new Gov and Dem State Senate that will allow us to reinstate tenant protection laws so that these neighborhoods can survive and do not sucumb to the creeping gentrification.


by John Mills on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 11:04:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

At Last! The best part of the Lamont win is that it is so liberating. Suddenly people are saying in public what they were muttering behind their hands. Feingold came out swinging against the DLC. Matthews and company are treating Lamont with real respect. No more talk about the crazy netroots and blogofascists. Leiberman must be crying in his matzos. No outrage on the tube at how badly he was treated and what a mistake the Dems made. They've already moved on.

Of course, Joes real friends are sticking by him. First call of the evening was from Rove. Bet that there'll be all kinds of red money flowing into CT. Also bet that, if he wins, Joe's first act will be to caucus with the Pubs.

That's the problem with the DLC types. Just like the mafia, they don't take anything personally, it's just business. When you don't operate from deeply held beliefs, it's easy to triangulate any issue. Finally, folks are feeling free to speak the truth.


by mombear on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 09:00:33 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I don't think you were fair or accurate in referring to Bloomberg Democrats.  What you really meant were Ed Koch Democrats.  Not surprisingly former mayor Koch supported holy Joe.

I also think you're overstating things a little when you write that the netroots and bogs have displaced the lawyer/lobbyists and their organs WaPo Ed Page and the Joe Weekly.  It would be more accurate to say bloggers have elbowed themselves a place at the table.  

Unfortunately it'll be a long time before lawyer/lobbyists are displaced as kingmakers in the Democratic Party.  And it'll be easy to monitor the progress on this front.  Just watch to see if candidates are running away from lawyer/lobbyists in droves, turning down their money and refusing to take their phone calls.


by kaleidescope on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 10:53:56 AM EST

Re: The Reverberations Start (none / 0)

I think Stoller's radically oversimplified a number of issues here- but tell me Jacob Weisberg's use of "preppy" r.e. Lamont here:
( www.slate.com/id/2147395/nav/tap1/)

isn't racist code for "not one of us."


by sb on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 12:31:40 PM EST


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